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Microsoft Not Dropping Hotmail Name

CowboyNeal posted more than 7 years ago | from the rose-is-a-rose-is-a-rose dept.

Microsoft 202

EveryNickIsTaken writes "CNET News.com is reporting that despite planning for months to ditch the name 'Hotmail' for 'Windows Live Mail,' Microsoft will keep the Hotmail name, renaming the service 'Windows Live Hotmail.' Along with the slight name change, MS will be modifying the interface to look more like Outlook's GUI."

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ironic (1)

User 956 (568564) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943382)

Along with the slight name change, MS will be modifying the interface to look more like Outlook's GUI.

It's kind of ironic that they've already been beaten to the punch on that front by Yahoo Mail (previously Oddpost).

Re:ironic (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943410)

"Hotmail" always struck me as sounding related to porn. Anyone else get this reaction ?

yeah, it's kind of freudian (2, Funny)

User 956 (568564) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943500)

"Hotmail" always struck me as sounding related to porn. Anyone else get this reaction ?

If that's the case, you better steer clear of PenisMail. [penismail.com]

Re:yeah, it's kind of freudian (1)

Korin43 (881732) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944220)

Damn.. I was really hoping that was a real mail service. Stupid ad-filled domains..

Re:yeah, it's kind of freudian (2, Informative)

neuro.slug (628600) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944256)

Hotmail was one of the first web-based email services available. Before Microsoft bought it, the spelling was HoTMaiL (HTML + 'o' and 'ai').

-- n

Re:ironic (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943618)

Maybe it's just all the porn spam you get sent spoofed from hotmail addresses.

Re:ironic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943954)

My parents did when there was a family fight after I used MSNIM on another family members WinXP box and it linked my hotmail account into that person's XP account (nice hidden "feature, even after I deleted my msnIM data use when I was done... then got a call and screaming family that I fucked up their computer and that they needed to have my email account deleted or all my messages removed... said when family does not listen that to turn off that "feature" just download tweakUI-- they would not listen... that really sucked and I got locked out of my hotmail account, but anyways...)

-rezzin lms

Re:ironic (2, Funny)

Real_Reddox (1010195) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943982)

Hehe, a friend of mine once typed "hotmales" instead of hotmail. He didn't like the result

Re:ironic (1, Redundant)

dosius (230542) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944194)

It was undoubtedly chosen as a vowelization of HTML, in fact I think in the beginning (I had a hotmail address in 1996, it was my first e-mail address), it was punctuated HoTMaiL (don't quote me, it's been years).

-uso.

Re:ironic (1)

sk999 (846068) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944352)

<<"Hotmail" always struck me as sounding related to porn. Anyone else get this reaction ?>>

Can't say for sure, but it ... er ... *cough* ... has nothing to do with my having an account there.

What an ironic travesty this is (0, Troll)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943948)

A company registers "hotmail.com" as a play on "HMTL" and "mail", back when it was oh so cool that you can make a web page that looks like an email client! It's like mail, but it's HTML, i.e. HoTMaiL! Get it? It's "HTML", and it's "mail"- i.e. "hot-mail"! WOW!

(Although I have to admit, that like many people, I just assumed the name was pornographic when I first heard it.)

So anyway, Microsoft buys this company, promptly screws it up with all the ill-conceived MSN/Passport/.NET crud, and now they're going to redesign the entire interface to look just like Outlook. Can you imagine? It completely flies in the face of everything that drove people to Hotmail in the first place! You could use an ordinary web browser to read your email as if you were surfing the web. You didn't have to run a mail client like Outlook. Now your IE is going to instantiate an ActiveX control or something and you'll basically be running Outlook again, only inside your browser, so it's going to be even less stable than before. It's like the entire design philosophy behind Hotmail has made a 180 degree turn since the Microsoft acquisition.

Re:What an ironic travesty this is (4, Interesting)

mikael (484) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944020)

It's like the entire design philosophy behind Hotmail has made a 180 degree turn since the Microsoft acquisition.

Windows NT was originally sold on the basis that it would offer all applications developers and users the opportunity to develop and use applications that all have the same standard user interface everywhere, and thus UNIX was legacy.

Windows XP was sold on on the basis that all applications developers could customise the look of their applications with "skins".

Re:What an ironic travesty this is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17944270)

Ever heard of AJAX? Yahoo running an ActiveX in their Yahoo Mail Beta new interface?
By those comments I assume you are using Windows...

Windows Live Hotmail (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943388)

to couteract "Windows Dead Hotmail"?

Re:Windows Live Hotmail (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943486)

haha yes omg lol u r teh funnay haha linux rules i suck googles ass every day omg hihi

Re:Windows Live Hotmail (4, Funny)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943760)

Would you believe Windows Undead Tepidmail?

KFG

Office GUI (2, Funny)

Fyre2012 (762907) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943400)

MS will be modifying the interface to look more like Outlook's GUI

Now with 30% More Ads! Sign up today!

Re:Office GUI (1, Informative)

moogs (1003361) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943552)

Not if you have AdBlock Plus :)

Thank you firefox!

Re:Office GUI (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17944066)

More ads?

Huzzah!

Odin truly favors us this day!

Live Mail beta (5, Informative)

ThinkFr33ly (902481) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943408)

I've been using their Windows Live Mail Beta for several months, and while it's still not as good as Yahoo's mail beta, it's MUCH better than regular hotmail... which sucks.

That said, I find myself using Windows Live Mail Desktop more and more. The early betas were pretty bad, but now it's a fairly good, simple e-mail client. Good stuff for those who don't need Outlook.

I'm actually pretty surprised that the Yahoo mail beta doesn't get more press. It is, by FAR, the best web-based e-mail I've ever seen. Check out this review [weblogsinc.com] for screenshots.

Yet none compare to pine or mutt. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943782)

Even after the decade or so since web-based email started to become popular, none of the clients available today compare to pine or mutt in terms of productivity.

With a console-based mail client, I'm able to check my mail, read new messages, reply to them, compose new emails, delete old mails, etc., without having to take my hands off of the keyboard. Compare that to web-based email interfaces, which tend to require at least one mouse click to view a message in one's inbox, one more click to reply, one more click to actually send the message, and often then one more click to return to the inbox.

You may not think that five or six mouse clicks is really that bad. But when you have 60 to 70 emails to deal with each day for years on end, the time really adds up. And if you're an employer, you're paying your employees for what amounts to wasted time.

Re:Yet none compare to pine or mutt. (1)

Achromatic1978 (916097) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944048)

And if you're an employer, you're paying your employees for what amounts to wasted time.

Until GMail for Domains (and even that's very much in the minority), how many employers use Yahoo Webmail/Hotmail/etc at the office?

Better solution there, how about you, as an employee, don't waste your employer's time in the first place, rather than blaming the webmail client you really didn't need to access in the first place?

Re:Yet none compare to pine or mutt. (1)

aichpvee (631243) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944080)

I haven't used the keyboard interface that much, but gmail seems to let you do just about everything via keyboard. You should give it a try if you haven't already.

Re:Live Mail beta (1)

macshit (157376) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943830)

I'm actually pretty surprised that the Yahoo mail beta doesn't get more press. It is, by FAR, the best web-based e-mail I've ever seen.

I've tried the new yahoo beta, and frankly it's just as sucky as yahoo's old interface, just in different ways -- it's a bit prettier, and the lack of full-page reloads is nice, but it's buggy, slow, cranky (interface full of "WTF" moments), and seems hacked up by developers with a bullet-list of features instead of a coherent vision of how email should work.

Gmail is far, far, better.

Re:Live Mail beta (1)

rainman_bc (735332) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943932)

It is, by FAR, the best web-based e-mail I've ever seen.

I agree - I really like it too, although I wish they made scrolling through your list a bit better - it's kinda sucky, but other than that I'm crazy about that interface too... IMO it's the best one...

Re:Live Mail beta (1)

jpardey (569633) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944056)

I am going to guess that the new interface doesn't remove any of the spam, which is my main problem with hotmail. I didn't sign up, because the agreement had some sort of NDA or similar in it when I looked.

It seems sort of odd to me that they would drop the uncool MSN name for the even more uncool Windows Live. I suppose they are losing brand identity, which might be a good thing.

Re:Live Mail beta (5, Informative)

bendodge (998616) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944152)

I'd have to disagree. GMail is by far the best client, IMHO. It has very advanced AJAX, context-sensitive ads, good mouseover stuff, keyboard shortcuts, excellent mail and chat log search, conversation sorting (were it kinda cascades the original message and replies back and forth like playing cards, which you can click to expand), and all kinds of handy stuff.

It has 0 image ads, and it has a tiny RSS bar at the top, which often has slashdot stuff. It also has the GTalk thing in a sidebar if you want it, and you can "pop-out" chats, drafts (which are autosaved every few seconds) and almost anything else.

It just works marvelously, and is very simply and clean looking, compared to Yahoo! Mail.

Re:Live Mail beta (2, Insightful)

dosius (230542) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944224)

I hardly use my gmail, I just feed it into my regular local mailbox with fetchmail.

Still, nice to have if I need it (as when I was stuck on dialup for a week).

-uso.

Re:Live Mail beta (1)

Derek Pomery (2028) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944308)

I found the new Yahoo! beta far too painful to navigate, especially after I accidentally tagged one piece of mail as spam (which was way too easy to do) then couldn't find the thing through endless slow scrolling of the spam folder. Oh, and whole thing was rather slow (although it has improved).

Oh, and the new Hotmail - I block all e-mail from Hotmail as reciprocation for their slash and burn spam prevention policy which drops all packets from ranges tagged "dynamic" - not even a polite bounce message.

Contrast that to Google which has an interface which is fast, and blocks almost all spam even while still allowing connections from "dynamic" ranges.

Speaking of hotmail... (1)

gQuigs (913879) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943418)

My parents currently use it. I've been trying to get them to gmail for various reasons. (being able to easily switch from it, being one). However, I haven't found a way to set up forwarding or any other functions that would make this easier. Anybody have any magic bullets, I don't think they are going to switch without one or two. I already managed to transfer contacts, but that's it.

Re:Speaking of hotmail... (4, Informative)

russ1337 (938915) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943768)

I'm certain that Hotmails lack of 'forwarding' and export of contacts has prevented about half of their members switching to Gmail/other.

What you can do is this: Send an e-mail to everyone in your parents e-mail list from their Hotmail account telling them you're switching to Gmail & CC the Gmail account. Then, from the Gmail account 'reply to all' saying "this is my new account, please delete any others you have for me, I will only be using this from now on". All your contacts will automatically be added to Gmail contacts with the outgoing mail.

You'll need to check their hotmail once every couple of weeks to catch the stray's, but will mostly get there. Oh, and put a shortcut on the desktop to the gmail account, cos parents are really good at typing in the URL for hotmail as habit long after they've switched. Has worked for me a couple of times.

woo hoo 200 megabytes of mail space (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943420)

Gmail's available for everyone now, has more space and better spam protection. Why would anyone except for legacy users still be using Hotmail?

Incorrect (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943604)

Actually, when hotmail users agree to try out Live's web interface for their hotmail they get 2GB (or at least I did). Not bad compared to Gmail's approx. 2.8 GB

Re:woo hoo 200 megabytes of mail space (2, Funny)

killjoe (766577) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943706)

Because it's LIVE!.

We should be glad they skipped the ActiveMailX and Mail.NET branding and went straight to LIVE!!!.

It's not alive (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943964)

After being repeatedly infected with viruses it's no longer alive. It's now undead.

Re:woo hoo 200 megabytes of mail space (4, Insightful)

illuminatedwax (537131) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943994)

Actually, this legacy user stopped going to the page itself because I could see my Inbox from my MSN Messenger account and I never got anything but spam - and after 15 days they promptly deleted all my messages. 10 years of archived emails, LOST. FOREVER.

Of course I didn't go back, because I was seriously getting about 4 times as much spam in my inbox as the "spam box" - and believe me, I did thousands of messages worth of "training" Hotmail. I just don't think they care about filtering spam. Now I use gmail, and I get about 1 spam a day sneaking in (usually with no actual advertising content), which is a 99% success rate, with only 2 false positives in the entire history of my email account.

I don't see why anyone would use Hotmail over Gmail, period.

Re:woo hoo 200 megabytes of mail space (1)

ZDRuX (1010435) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944038)

Because apparently my alias "zdrux" is too short to meet their naming requirements, whic is sort of annoying, but pretty much the only thing keeping me from going that route. And also the fact that I can access my hotmail using outlook express without need for a web browser and the need to type in my login details anytime I wish to check my webmail.

Re:woo hoo 200 megabytes of mail space (1)

cheater512 (783349) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944188)

Yeah but I cant use GMail. I have 2.5 gig of email. :(

My current email limit is half a terrabyte or a full terrabyte if I delete some stuff.
Excellent spam protection and I can read it where ever I want when ever I want.

Yep.Postfix, Courier and SpamAssassin (with a few tweaks) with IMAP rocks.

Re:woo hoo 200 megabytes of mail space (1)

ThinkFr33ly (902481) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944384)

Well, first, I pay for hotmail... so I have 2GB of space. So that's really not an issue.

Second, I don't get spam. I think they actually use different spam filters for paided users vs non-paid users. That's really the only explanation. I have a couple free hotmail accounts that just get crushed by spam. But my hotmail account gets, at most, 2 spams a day. And it's actually been better recently. I don't think I've had spam in the past couple of days.

Third, I like Hotmail's (beta) interface better. I love the 3 side-by-side pane approach.

That's why.

Hotmails Interface is teh suck (4, Insightful)

Frogbert (589961) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943426)

I haven't used my Hotmail account in a long while, but the final straw of their ad-laden interface was the stupid "Today" tab. It was the first thing that showed up when you logged in. Why the hell would I be going to Hotmail unless it was to check my email? My Inbox is the first thing I should see, not the crappy "Today" tab that as far as I can tell is just there to get an extra ad impression.

Now I have gmail and it is all business, I log in and see my emails. No extra clicking and I don't even notice the ads.

Re:Hotmails Interface is teh suck (1)

drawfour (791912) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943520)

No extra clicking and I don't even notice the ads.
Ssshhhhhhh. Don't tell them that. Pretty soon they'll redesign it so you do see the ads. Ads are the only reason it's free.

Re:Hotmails Interface is teh suck (2)

njchick (611256) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943612)

Best ads are subliminal. If an ad annoys you enough that you start looking for ad blockers, it's a bad ad. If you don't remember seeing an ad, it's a good ad.

Re:Hotmails Interface is teh suck (1)

drawfour (791912) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943670)

No. The best ads are ads that are noticed consciously, since they get you to click on them. However, you are correct that if an ad annoys you enough that you start looking for ad blockers, then it's a bad ad. You want something that's easy to see yet not intrusive.

Re:Hotmails Interface is teh suck (1)

romland (192158) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943662)

Chances are they check their logs* for click-troughs on a regular basis?

(*) Chances are the logs are wrapped by pretty damn sophisticated tools.

Re:Hotmails Interface is teh suck (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943828)

Good point - I had one freind whose English is not very good complain she didn't know how to get her email for a couple of weeks due to this feature. All the dating agency and sexually suggestive ads that turned up on the hotmail login for her twelve year old daughter didn't impress either - paticularly a gay singles one.

Re:Hotmails Interface is teh suck (1)

Achromatic1978 (916097) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944092)

All the dating agency and sexually suggestive ads that turned up on the hotmail login for her twelve year old daughter didn't impress either - paticularly a gay singles one.

So your friend is homophobic? - the dating agency was bad, but egads, particularly the gay one! Quelle horreur!

Re:Hotmails Interface is teh suck (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17944314)

nobody wants to see a bunch of nancy boy pervs looking for a good fudge packing. Especially not the parents of a 12 year old. You probably pack more fudge than Hostess anyway.

Re:Hotmails Interface is teh suck (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944452)

I think it was sexually suggestive stuff in general that was the problem - but the gay one did freak her daughter out a bit.

Re:Hotmails Interface is teh suck (1)

mochan_s (536939) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943884)

And, of course, Google is nicely mining your e-mails with the help of all the google searches you do and all the sites you visit with google ads (including slashdot).

But google-mail doesn't have folders :-( (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943930)

and that 'label' business sucks. I'm sticking with my class Yahoo mail.

Re:But google-mail doesn't have folders :-( (3, Insightful)

Miseph (979059) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944094)

Really? I think they're great. You can use them just like folders, except that you can put any number of labels on a given email; it's like putting the same thing in every folder you might want to look for it. same with contact groups.

Not flamebaiting here, just putting it out there.

Re:Hotmails Interface is teh suck (0, Redundant)

illuminatedwax (537131) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943934)

Actually this legacy user stopped going to the page itself because I could see my Inbox from my MSN Messenger account and I never got anything but spam - and after 15 days they promptly deleted all my messages. 10 years of archived emails, LOST. FOREVER.

Of course I didn't go back, because I was seriously getting about 4 times as much spam in my inbox as the "spam box" - and believe me, I did thousands of messages worth of "training" Hotmail. I just don't think they care about filtering spam. Now I use gmail, and I get about 1 spam a day sneaking in (usually with no actual advertising content), which is a 99% success rate, with only 2 false positives in the entire history of my email account.

I don't see why anyone would use Hotmail over Gmail, period.

Re:see the ads (1)

chrwei (771689) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943984)

No extra clicking and I don't even notice the ads.

I notice the ads, though they aren't on all my messages. Interesting thing is how damned relevant they are, and sometimes even helpful. I forget what it was, but my wife and I were emailing back and forth about buying something and it was listed in the ads, so I clicked on it (why not, I get the free email, I don't mind throwing a bone gmail's way every now and then) and it was actually a better price than what I was getting ready to pay, and the vendor was just as reputable too.

so, see the ads, you might end up doing yourself a favor. And google already knows where you've been anyway so what's the difference.

Hotmail hotmail hotmail, how you trouble me! (4, Interesting)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943440)

I might take this opportunity to plug a blog I'm currently working on, trying to get Microsoft to manage their passport.net / hotmail / xbox live syncing / linking a little better.
(no, there's no ads on there)
I wouldn't say it's well written, nor would I say it's a major issue but it is an annoyance.
http://msnemailchange.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]

To quickly summarise, Microsoft has a policy where if you have a passport.net account to log in to some of their services, you can't change your login / backend email if you opted to chose a hotmail account, quite the frustrating if you simply don't want to use hotmail anymore.

On top of that, those of us who own an Xbox 1 or Xbox 360 and use live can get frustrated that the live "gamertag" is permanently bound to a passport.net id which we may no longer want to use (be it avoiding people on MSN, sick of hotmail's email interface or simply want to use another email address)

To my knowledge several other Microsoft web "products" use these live id's / passports but how well they integrate with passport.net / liveid I don't know - I believe there's a myspace kind of clone and also Zune owners need a passport - however, don't quote me on that.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's more integration with Vista too, perhaps the messenger package installed as default, however that one is also speculation.

So just to finalize my comment, yes I realize it's my own fault using MS's products and well yeah it's not a real major issue but it's annoying and could be handled a lot better, if anyone has any information on this, specifically names within MS / Xbox divisions for me to question, I'd appreciate it.

and yes, I'm new to starting one of these ranty style pages so it's a mess, sorry all.

- Scott

Re:Hotmail hotmail hotmail, how you trouble me! (1)

Dan_Bercell (826965) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943846)

I use a lot of MS products and I love the fact I dont have to make a new account everything I register for a product, beta, download, webcast, eopen, msn, event. From a business end it is a fantastic idea. As a system integrator that deals with a lot of different clients and even more vendors I have to manage a large (30+) amount of username/passwords. If if the Passport (Live) wasnt universal to MS I would have at least 10 more and I dont even want to know how often I would have typed in my name, address, job...etc

Re:Hotmail hotmail hotmail, how you trouble me! (1)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944090)

I couldn't agree with you more!

I like the central theme - it's fantastic the problem is, it's not flexible - perhaps my post or blog isn't clear.

If I build up a reputation on Xbox live and love it - great but if I hate my MSN list or my hotmail account, why can't I continue to use my Xbox live gamertag and have it signed in at the Xbox.com forums and Xbox MSN integration with a NEW passport account?

The linking is "permenant" and that's the problem, plus the passport.net account itself won't allow that email address change in the backend (for hotmail accounts) - that's the issue.

A lot of poor naive people would have signed up to hotmail to use MSN to chat with friends and family, not realising MSN requires a passport account, NOT a hotmail account (optional) - this means a lot of users will be on hotmail who simply don't need or want it, that's fine and dandy if they can change it but they simply can't :/

L mail? (1)

adambha (1048538) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943444)

Since M$ tends to play catch-up anyway (behind Google) if they're gonna change the name, how about lmail (for live mail).

related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (2, Interesting)

80 85 83 83 89 33 (819873) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943446)

requiring a Windows Live ID for Office 2007 sucks

it is a pain for me trying to install the new Office on all my customers' computers, since i now have to explain that in order to Activate it, they have to get a Live ID, which nearly requires a birth certificate and retinal scan....

i mean, they already payed for a unique key, as was done in the "old days"...

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (1)

DaveM753 (844913) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943516)

Maybe I'm a bit behind the 8-ball here, but are you serious? They require you get a Windows Live ID in order to install their software? That's total crap! They suck!

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943546)

requiring a Windows Live ID for Office 2007 sucks

Are you saying that offline Office 2007 requries a live ID?

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (1)

80 85 83 83 89 33 (819873) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943602)

as of it's launch a week ago, in addition to the previous anti-piracy restrictions, you now have to have a Live ID to activate, at least individual copies for personal use -- i don't know if that is a requirment for enterprise wide installations....

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (3, Insightful)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943688)

Reading the Office 2007 Activation FAQ [microsoft.com] , I find no mention of windows "live" or passport.

And your Original Post said:

it is a pain for me trying to install the new Office on all my customers' computers,
I find it very hard to believe that you've installed a retail version of Office 2007 on multiple "customers" (mom?). If you had you'd know the retail version does not require a windows live account.

Offtopic. I bet you've never seen or had your nickname.

I've had your mom. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943838)

and she liked it.

seriously, if you doubt me, go down to your favorite Best Buy / Circuit City / Frye's, etc, and buy yourself a shiny new computer and a retail copy of Office 2007, and see what happens. I've prolly installed it a half dozen times since it's launch.

Re:I've had your mom. (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943856)

Surely you can find this documented on the web somewhere?

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (1)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943914)

It's probably for a VLK version. There was some issue with those associated with Eopen in the beginning.

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944002)

It's probably for a VLK version. There was some issue with those associated with Eopen in the beginning.

Nope, VLK versions require no activation [informationweek.com] at all.

I suspect they were referring to a free trial download version.

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (1)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944268)

No, they don't but they do require a valid product key and in order to get a product key, you have to have access to an eopen account which requires some sort of microsoft admission.

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (2, Informative)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944368)

No, they don't but they do require a valid product key

Are you sure? According to the article I linked to:

Unlike the retail versions of Office 2007, copies installed using volume license keys -- the typical way large organizations purchase Microsoft's software -- will simply skip product activation, the process where keys must be entered and judged legitimate.
Perhaps you're thinking of the beta or vista or the download version? Or is that article out of date?

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17944408)

Offtopic. I bet you've never seen or had your nickname.

That's not true. You can see them free on the web. Unless you meant in real life.

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (3, Informative)

Shados (741919) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943594)

Wait, what? Is it only present in the crappy versions or something? I installed and activated MS Office 2007 Ultimate a few days ago, and while I -do- have a windows live account, I never had to provide it. It was literally like Office 2003. They asked to activate, I clicked "OK" or something, and that was it.

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943762)

requiring a Windows Live ID for Office 2007 sucks

It would suck, if it were remotely true. Activation is the same as before.

You're full of crap.

That is all.

Re:related: Live ID/Hotmail for Office 2007 (1)

GFree (853379) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944624)

and retinal scan....

Funny this is I actually read this as 'rectum scan', and for some reason this didn't seem at all peculiar as a new authentication method from Microsoft. I need more sleep.

What ever happened to software updates (4, Funny)

Ace905 (163071) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943454)

" By adopting the name 'Windows Live Hotmail,' we believe we're bringing together the best of both worlds--new and old "

What ever happened to just updating software. Is microsoft claiming that windows live hotmail whatever is going to be so 'new and improved' it's actually a different software product? Here's an idea, don't change the name - don't confuse people - just update the damned thing.

As an end-user, there is absolutely no difference in functionality between Windows version 1 and Windows XP. XP windows didn't *do more*, it just *had more*. It still shows you neat little pictures, and you click on them, and software runs and then crashes and then so does your computer.

Windows live hotmail extra 2-in-the-pink-1-in-the-stink beta alpha theta radiation flux capacitor is no different. It's a messenger client. If it's so different, why the hell do hotmail users want to use it?

Microsoft's days really are numbered.

---
two in the pink [douginadress.com]

mod parent up! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943504)


As an end-user, there is absolutely no difference in functionality between Windows version 1 and Windows XP. XP windows didn't *do more*, it just *had more*. It still shows you neat little pictures, and you click on them, and software runs and then crashes and then so does your computer.


Parent has perfectly pointed out the prob. with Windows that is inherent in growth economies, they have to keep adding shit and getting bigger and bigger until you have a rotting whale carcass when all you wanted was fresh fish...

What? (2, Funny)

Donniedarkness (895066) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943472)

What's the deal with all the "Windows Live" stuff? "Windows Live Hotmail"? Microsoft really needs to hire someone new to write these names...

Now, if you'll all excuse me, someone just "squirted" me an email.

Microsoft Windows Live Hotmail (5, Funny)

amplusquem (995096) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943550)

It just... flows... Kudos to the naming department.

Probably a good idea (4, Funny)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943558)

Changing the name to SpamMail probably would have been a bad idea.

Re:Probably a good idea (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943708)

Changing the name to SpamMail probably would have been a bad idea.

Yes because it's the internal mail for Hormel Foods and they do have a problem with the abuse of their trademark by others.

Windows Live Hotmail - Nahhhh, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943562)

How about "The Mailserver Formerly Known as Hotmail"?

To give it a Star Trek style metaphor (1)

ChromeAeonium (1026952) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943598)

In other words, its sort of like when my cat pisses on something and then scratches it for a while to claim it as his own.

meet the new .net, same as the old .net (5, Funny)

hxnwix (652290) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943600)

Once upon a time, Microsoft went slap happy with the Back-Office moniker. They hurridly affixed it to many a disparate product for reasons unknown.

Days past, PR staff churned and version numbers changed in format, length and value.

Eventually, Microsoft realized that back-office sounds like back-orifice. So, they went slap super happy with the .net moniker. They hurridly affixed it over stale back-office stickers and even on products that had been lucky enough to avoid the officially orificially excrementitious sounding branding the last time around.

Days past, PR staff churned and version numbers changed in format, length and value.

The most brilliant of the Microsoft Marketeers realized that .net doesn't mean anything. Bill himself saw this to be true and hurridly, desperately affixed 'live' to many a disparate product. The rest he called 'vista'.

Days past, PR staff churned and version numbers changed in format, length and value...

Re:meet the new .net, same as the old .net (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943952)

Dont forget "Active". There were also a few years there when everything was ActiveThis and ActiveThat.

Got numbers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943606)

From TFA:"The service has maintained a loyal user base, but many new Web mail users opt for rival services from Yahoo and Google."

That's noise not signal, and what they insinuate with it is bullocks. I can only think of one person still using Hotmail, and the only other time I see the domain is spam.

So I doubt this has much to do with maintaining a lot of active happy users. Possibly it's more along the lines of not wanting to have already low figures deflate by any amount, and perhaps most likely it's just that Hotmail still sounds catchy (to new people) compared to "Mail".

For Immediate Release (4, Funny)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943684)

I would like to take this opportunity to announce that I will not be changing my name either, but I may be changing my appearance to resemble people with popular names.

Re:For Immediate Release (0, Redundant)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943720)

That has got to be the best response to this so far. Too bad Ive no mod points to give.

help with iis to hotmail email please (1)

nFriedly (628261) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943700)

I was kind of stumped on who to ask about this and I can't figure it out. I figure It can't hurt to ask here. My IIS SMTP server (the one that comes with Server2003, not Exchange) can not send emails to hotmail.com or msn.com addresses. they always bounce.

Here's a wireshark description of the connection: (with the emails slightly edited)

220 bay0-mc6-f15.bay0.hotmail.com Sending unsolicited commercial or bulk e-mail to Microsoft's computer network is prohibited. Other restrictions are found at http://privacy.msn.com/Anti-spam/. Violations will result in use of equipment located in California and other states. Thu, 8 Feb 2007 09:36:31 -0800

EHLO iboomerang.com

250-bay0-mc6-f15.bay0.hotmail.co m (3.3.1.4) Hello [66.194.243.34]

250-SIZE 29696000

250-PIPELINING

250-8bitmime

250- BINARYMIME

250-CHUNKING

250-AUTH LOGIN

250-AUTH=LOGIN

250 OK

MAIL FROM:<nathan@--myserver--> SIZE=3435

250 nathan@iboomerang.com....Sender OK

RCPT TO:<nfriedly@--hotmail-->

250 nfriedly@--hotmail--

BDAT 3435 LAST

And it just stops there. No response from hotmail, my server doesn't send anything more. It's been doing this for a couple of weeks I think.

Can anybody tell me whats going on here? Or perhaps where I can go to get some help?

Re:help with iis to hotmail email please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17943798)

make sure you have implemented SPF [openspf.org] on your mailservers DNS and your EHLO is correct for your domain (eg mail.yourdomain.com) after doing this i can send mail to Hotmail/AOL without any problems (and my server is on a cable connection with a dynamic ip (tho the IP hasnt changed in 3 years))

Gmail does the same but it ignores the results even if it fails (now getting 300+ spam a day in my gmail account vs 5 a day on my hotmail account)

Re:help with iis to hotmail email please (1)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944536)

Have you set up SPF records for your domain? Hotmail won't receive mail from a domain without one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Policy_Framewo rk [wikipedia.org] My own domain has the same issue, but sif I can be assed paying for a spf record... Just don't email people with hotmail accounts!

change of heart: hotmail and advertisement money (1, Informative)

_7miracles (1060534) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943790)

One of my friends asked me a favor to reanimate her deceased windoze box, so, I did.
I installed AdPlus plugin for her Firefox, and just tumbled to the reason why she uses her hotmail account via browser as webmail and not more convenient regular email client as Thunderbird, or, at worst, Outlook Express. And she said that it is impossible.

I did not touch my old hotmail account like 2 years already, so, it was difficult to recall my password. But when I finally did, I found out that my hotmail account still works. You just set up Server URL to be "http://services.msn.com/svcs/hotmail/httpmail.asp ", put your "blah@hotmail.com" as login name, set "3DES" security, and it goes. My very old hotmail account was created when the maximum mailbox size was very misearble, couple Mb or something like this.

But when I was trying to create the new hotmail account (just for fan, I never plan to use it, neither my old one), it does not work with stand alone mail client, incl. Microsoft Outlook Express.

So, MS values advertisement money very much, otherwise I don't see the reason of her change of heart.
Probably, she does not believe that sales of Office and new OS will be very good source of income anymore.

Re:change of heart: hotmail and advertisement mone (1)

The Mysterious X (903554) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944366)

Old accounts can still access hotmail using a proper client.

New accounts have to pay for the privilege.

I'm not sure if you had to have used hotmail by proper client prior to the changeover date or not.

Re:change of heart: hotmail and advertisement mone (1)

Sanat (702) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944454)

thanks for that tip

I am using Hotmail Popper for a couple of Hotmail accounts I have had for about 10 years now. Not sure if the changes to the Hotmail interface will affect the Popper program and cause it to malfunction or not. Time will tell. I shall go to your suggested way of using a client to download web mail if the Popper program ceases to operate..

Microsoft (2, Interesting)

mfh (56) | more than 7 years ago | (#17943800)

Despite all of their attempts, Microsoft can not make better products, only better brands. Hotmail has powerful brand awareness that would be foolish to disregard. However, the problem now lies, is that in an attempt to revitalize the service's brand, they have attached their own equivalent of the word NEW to the service: Windows Live Hotmail. Usually a company does that when they have lost market share, which Hotmail must have now that Google's Gmail is open. Microsoft is in a pretty dull period right now, and it can't get better for them, only worse. They need to come up with something that truly maximizes human potential, instead of merely changing the stickers all the time.

Re:Microsoft (1)

JacksBrokenCode (921041) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944074)

Despite all of their attempts, Microsoft can not make better products, only better brands.

What's wrong with Visual Studio 2005?

Most large companies have a stable of products with some winners and some losers. Microsoft has slipped to the point where they have more losers than winners but that doesn't mean they "can not make better products".

Re:Microsoft (1)

mfh (56) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944238)

Visual Studio is a brand that is dependent on Windows culture to make it work. Clearly we would all be better off if Microsoft made product that were better, like Apple does. But that is not the strength of what makes Microsoft a powerhouse brand. They need to do what they are good at -- branding.

Spam (1)

MadnessASAP (1052274) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944016)

Maybe they should change the name. After all Hotmail is pretty much synonymous with spam/ad laden e-mail account(and for good reason).

This just in... (1)

Max Littlemore (1001285) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944030)

After minutes of suggesting he may switch to orange juice with breakfast, Karl Emorphowitz has decided to stick with coffee, along with an extra tab of artificial sweetener.

More news at 11

Fap fap fap... (1)

Bob Cat - NYMPHS (313647) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944062)

fap-fap-fap-fap.

At this rate, ts name in 10 years will be... (1)

Diordna (815458) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944216)

Windows Direct Live Connect Delivery IcyHotmail Interface Hub.

Re:At this rate, ts name in 10 years will be... (1)

Max Littlemore (1001285) | more than 7 years ago | (#17944556)

"Are you sure you want to move Copy of Copy of Shortcut to Windows Direct Live Connect Delivery IcyHotmail Interface Hub.lnk to the Recycle Bin?"

Re:At this rate, ts name in 10 years will be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17944578)

My Live Active Hotmail .Net
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