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Some States Say National ID Cards 'Make Life Easier'

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the that's-one-opinion dept.

Privacy 287

VE3OGG writes "Some places, like Maine, have outright rejected the idea of a nationally mandated ID card amid privacy, legal and security concerns. On the other side of the fence some states, such as California and New Jersey, have said that they welcome the National ID card and that it will make 'life easier'. One New Jersey official said 'All you are getting in e-government for the most part are things that don't require strong two-factor identification,' the official said referring to security that requires something beyond a user name and password. 'But as we move forward and start to deliver more and more complicated services, I think that people for the most part will want to know their government has implemented strong measures [with National ID cards]'."

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What happened??!??!? (5, Interesting)

BWJones (18351) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953224)

Modern politics is just too bizarre. The Republicans used to be the ones who were for less government involvement in an individuals life, then the Democrats appeared to have taken up that flag, but now with the National ID card (papers please), both parties seem to be endorsing this movement.

For all you extreme left wing whakos start hollering, think about this: How much longer will it be until we have to present a National ID card to take out a loan, open a bank account, cross state lines, and more? Already it is being proposed that you will not be able to board a plane unless you have a National ID card. So, what about those who can afford their own planes? Will they be allowed more anonymity than those with fewer resources? What about purchasing items like automobiles? Those who can afford to pay cash for an automobile in its entirety would be able to do so while those who have to take out a loan are again restricted to using a bank and thus the National ID card again. How about healthcare? Those that can afford to pay for services completely will not have to worry about health care insurance and therefore will not be tracked.

Before any of you ultra-right wing neocon folks start bashing me for this, how about realizing that a National ID card will essentially enable all sorts of purchase related tracking to take place. You can now welcome federally mandated and controlled tracking and access to guns. For example, when other states decide to buy into the fear and make .50 cal rifles illegal, they will be able to track purchases of ammunition and deliver jack-booted thugs to your door to take you away, or at the very least, prohibit you from doing any business across state lines or within states that ban those rifles if politicians decide to play that game against individuals. You can also kiss any anonymity away when dealing with private corporations as the National ID card will enable any and all transactions through banks, individuals and more to be closely monitored.

What happened to common sense and the political middle road?

Re:What happened??!??!? (-1, Troll)

TheKingAdrock (834418) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953344)

You can now welcome federally mandated and controlled tracking and access to guns.
Sounds like a solution rather than a problem.

Re:What happened??!??!? (3, Insightful)

JesseL (107722) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953434)

Because black markets, theft, and underground manufacturing don't exist in real life, and giving the government an absolute monopoly not only on the use of force but on the ability to use force is a real win for freedom.

Could you send me a postcard from your world?

Re:What happened??!??!? (5, Insightful)

BWJones (18351) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953480)

Sounds like a solution rather than a problem.

Well, I guess we know your politics. Seriously though, statements like these are simply non-starters that close off the dialogue before it can even start. So, you are telling me that you are gleefully giving away your rights to privacy of your person and documents, happy to waive your rights to travel without being identified or tracked, and more?

If so, you sir, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953542)

Who invited you here, Governor Corzine?

Look North (2, Interesting)

subl33t (739983) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953626)

Gang members, mafia, etc. don't typically buy their guns from licensed vendors. They either steal them or buy them under the counter from someone else.

THis is one of the main gripes a lot of Canadians have against the federal gun registry, which, after over 10 years and BILLIONS of dollars has yet to be fully implemented, and has done nothing to lessen gun crimes.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

hamburger lady (218108) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953356)

How much longer will it be until we have to present a National ID card to take out a loan, open a bank account, cross state lines, and more?

we already have that for the first two. a social security card.

as for crossing state lines, i doubt there will ever be an ID necessary for that unless the government wants to put checkpoints on every crossing. which would never happen.

Re:What happened??!??!? (3, Insightful)

BWJones (18351) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953420)

we already have that for the first two. a social security card.

Which supports implicitly my point as to the futility. No ID system is going to be entirely foolproof. IDs can be faked, and security for them can be hacked, so restricting rights even further is a futile measure with no endgame other than a police state.

as for crossing state lines, i doubt there will ever be an ID necessary for that unless the government wants to put checkpoints on every crossing. which would never happen.

If we go too much further down this road, it will become a financial issue for the states and will place pressure on the states to "secure" their borders, so don't count on it not happening.

Re:What happened??!??!? (4, Interesting)

twbecker (315312) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953530)

There is no question that the government needs to move away from Social Security #s as a means of identification. For most purposes you don't even need the stupid paper card! It's a fucking number for God's sake, how is that supposed to be secure? Having some sort of 2 factor ID mechanism is fine by me. The thing to argue about is what should we use it for, not whether or not it should exist.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

JasonKChapman (842766) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954126)

Having some sort of 2 factor ID mechanism is fine by me.

I would mind the concept a lot less if it weren't some government-operated identification monopoly. What's wrong with licensing privately-owned, competitive "ID Verification Entities"? Make them bonded, audited, and financially liable for security failures. You could use third-party verification "gateways" in much the same way that retailers use credit card payment services.

At least you'd have competition to ramp up the quality of service and security, and have a much easier time enforcing the need for a court order when the feds come knocking.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

hamburger lady (218108) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953548)

point is, we already have one. it isn't as detailed as a picture ID card, but everyone gasping about privacy concerns with some possible national ID card already has had one in their posession for years.

If we go too much further down this road, it will become a financial issue for the states and will place pressure on the states to "secure" their borders, so don't count on it not happening.

given the sheer number of state-crossing roads in this country, it would cost an astronomical amount of money to pull that off.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

endianx (1006895) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953830)

given the sheer number of state-crossing roads in this country, it would cost an astronomical amount of money to pull that off.
Very true. Also, I drive from Virginia to Maryland sometimes on the Washington D.C. beltway. At rush hour, traffic is already hardly moving. Can you imagine if you had to stop and present an ID card?

Anyway, this country is unfortunately moving more towards federalism. You are more likely to see the concept of states become more blurred, rather than more enforced.

Easier to spot poor fakes (1)

mungtor (306258) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953784)

One thing that I think people overlook is that it will be easier to spot less-than-perfect forgeries if there is a national ID in place. It is one standard with one format that everybody down to the lowliest liquor store clerk can remember.

Honestly, if I need to use a fake ID, it would be a lot easier to try to pass off a forgery of a NY driver's license in another state simply because they don't know what they _should_ look like. As long as it looks official enough, who cares?

Will it stop professional terrorists (if such a thing exists) or other people with a lot of available resources? Probably not. Will it stop or discourage wannabe terrorists? Probably.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953438)

This, too, would never happen.
How dense does one have to be?

"When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out."

Re:What happened??!??!? (4, Interesting)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953452)

What they could do is make it a ticketable, even jailable, offense to be in a state without an indentification card for that state. Maybe they'll even ask vacationers to register with a national database. It'll have a web interface, and a dial up interface, and a teletype interface, so nobody can claim it isn't accessible. Employers will obtain special exemptions for their employees and scanning will be automated using the national ID card or the existing interstate highway toll booth automated payment systems.

The offense, as with all offenses, will be selectively enforced and abused. If you appear to be a wealthy senior citizen driving a Cadillac you'll probably never be stopped for out-of-state plates. If you appear to be a young cruiser living life to the fullest, though, you'll probably be stopped for the equivalent of "you didn't use a turn signal with that last lane change". If you fail to look the officer directly in the eye then you're probably hiding something. If you do look the officer directly in the eye then you're trying to intimidate. Either situation can be construed as probable cause to check the ID and the national vacation database.

Look. It's really not that far fetched.

Re:What happened??!??!? (5, Informative)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953528)

What they could do is make it a ticketable, even jailable, offense to be in a state without an indentification card for that state.

That would violate the Constitution. Specifically, Article IV Section I states: "Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State."

The way I read this, it means any state would have to accept your state-issued ID card (a public record) as valid identification. For the same reason, I don't think any state could require presentation of a national ID card to enter that state. Not to mention that even if they could, stopping everyone at the border of each state to check ID would have a seriously detrimental impact on interstate commerce and probably go a long way toward killing the national economy.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953632)

Unfortunately, this section is violated all the time. Example: gun control. My PA carry permit is, in fact, useless in another state unless they have a reciprocity agreement.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

Radon360 (951529) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954150)

But that's a permit and not a true form of identification, is it not? A permit is something that allows you to operate, posess, or otherwise "do" under the juristdiction of the authority that issued it. Laws regarding conceal and carry vary a good deal from state to state, and is still illegal in a few.

Driver's licenses, aside from being a type of permit, are also a recognized form of photo identification. Although its reciprocity is more widespread (since the laws are much more similar), it isn't valid if you reside in a different state from which it was issued, either.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

starnix (636547) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954242)

"Not to mention that even if they could, stopping everyone at the border of each state to check ID would have a seriously detrimental impact on interstate commerce and probably go a long way toward killing the national economy."

Not with the planned RFID chips in them. They can still track you at 70mph. Think iPass.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

TheSuperlative (897959) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953908)

I was on the subway today and this lady was rambling conspiracy theories out loud about how everyone was out to get her. I was apparently out to get her, as well.

I sometimes feel like I'm on the subway when I read Slashdot.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

Mizled (1000175) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954336)

You want my SSN? It's 078-05-1120.

Im in yo bank account...stealin yo monies...

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

COMON$ (806135) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953462)

as for crossing state lines, i doubt there will ever be an ID necessary for that unless the government wants to put checkpoints on every crossing. which would never happen.

What is that id in motion system on freeways?....I live in the midwest but you can probably count on that being put on interstate system borders one a national ID system is in place. Not to mention the GPS that will be on every car by that time.

All that aside I don't think that is something we will be able to stop by denying a national ID.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

hamburger lady (218108) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953624)

in interstates were the only way to cross state lines, yeah. there are tons of roads that cross state borders.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

JesseL (107722) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953468)

...unless the government wants to put checkpoints on every crossing. which would never happen.


Do you have any fruits or vegetables in your vehicle?

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

Intron (870560) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953610)

You want my SSN? It's 078-05-1120. Of course, it's already in your database about 10,000 times.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

TheSuperlative (897959) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953460)

You know.... it is not like a national ID card would abolish our Constitution. We would still have that. I doubt a piece of plastic would create the 1984 that you suggest.

Nearly every other country in existence uses national IDs, and yet many are still quite free.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953470)

"For all you extreme left wing whakos start hollering"
and
"Before any of you ultra-right wing neocon folks start bashing me"

Does everyone have to be so pejorative all the time? Are are these the only kind of people that could possibly disagree with you?

Re:What happened??!??!? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953846)

"For all you extreme left wing whakos start hollering"
and
"Before any of you ultra-right wing neocon folks start bashing me"

Does everyone have to be so pejorative all the time? Are are these the only kind of people that could possibly disagree with you?


Oh sut-up you take-a-stand-hating, neither-fur-nor-agin, unposturing, non-frothing at the mouth, centirst-loving, non-comitting, middle-ground-seeking, calm unagitator. Why do you hate our freedom to hate so much?

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953484)

Before any of you ultra-right wing neocon folks
Neocons are not ultra-right wing. They're more like RINOs. True conservatives are like Reagan, who was vilified by the left the entire time he was in office because he believed in throwback ideas like a strong national defense, minimizing government intervention, and keeping taxes as low as possible.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

The_Wilschon (782534) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953666)

Sounds like my kind of guy. Where do I go to vote for him?

Re:What happened??!??!? (4, Funny)

hamburger lady (218108) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953670)

yeah, and tripling the national debt. apparently spending far more money than you have makes you a 'true conservative'.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

Pentavirate (867026) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953526)

How much longer will it be until we have to present a National ID card to take out a loan, open a bank account, cross state lines, and more?
Like your Social Security card?

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953794)


What happened to common sense and the political middle road?


Anything right of center these days is seen as conservative (it is). Thing is, anything left of center is seen as mainstream, and people dont start thinking "hardline lefty" until you get way extreme.

Welfare state, heavy taxation, a nanny state that tells me what to eat, drink, and smoke.. These aren't lefty ideas, these are mainstream realities. Something like "ban smoking in all public places" is no longer seen as a bit of an extremist infringement on someones freedom - it's something thats necessary to protect all of our health - govt knows best.

Somebody who attends church, whether a zealot or just a casual participant, is ridiculed constantly in our media, and merely believing in the concept of a god - without ascribing to any particular religion - is enough today to have you branded a "right wing fundamentalist".

We pulled a sharp larry off the middle road a long, long time ago. We don't even know where to find it on the map anymore.

Who'd have thought all the hippy liberal movement in the 60s would have ushered in so much intolerance.

Fashion. Style. Marketability. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953920)

Modern politics is just too bizarre. The Republicans used to be the ones who were for less government involvement in an individuals life, then the Democrats appeared to have taken up that flag, but now with the National ID card (papers please), both parties seem to be endorsing this movement.
The politicians follow fads and fashion - they have to. If it's cool to be pro-war, then they gotta be pro-war or the masses won't elect them. They are that kind of strange brand. Their biggest problem is that they are usually the last to know what's hip [wikipedia.org] .

The point is, you could explain those apparent inconsistencies using fashion lingo and it'll all make sense.

Like, for Republicans: "Big is the new small". The pitch is easy and gives the GOP some fresh marketability. In fact, call them the GNP because "New is the new old" (that'll appeal to the 'new' voters).

And so on...

Re:What happened??!??!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17954154)

spoken like a true Utahrd...

Re: Rebublicans and Democrats (1)

parvenu74 (310712) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954228)

Modern politics is just too bizarre. The Republicans used to be the ones who were for less government involvement in an individuals life, then the Democrats appeared to have taken up that flag, but now with the National ID card (papers please), both parties seem to be endorsing this movement.
It's not bizarre at all, you're just not looking at it from the right perspective. The republicans and democrats aren't about liberalism or conservatism; they are about globalism both economically and politically.

Take organized crime as an example. The Gambino family and the Genovese family have their own interests, but they will collectively go after anti-mob activity or petty gangsters encroaching on their turf. It's the same with the republicans and democrats, and it's why you don't see anyone from parties like the Greens, Libertarian, Constitution, etc making it anywhere in politics.

Re:What happened??!??!? (2, Interesting)

jxs2151 (554138) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954246)

I disagree with you....respectfully of course. I am no historian but I think that one will find that wherever an authority (government, dictator, king, Pope, etc.) has tried to exceed their authority, the people have awoken and mightily rebelled.

Since we in the USA, have the means for a meaningful rebellion (compliments of the 2nd Amendment - thank you George Mason, et. al.) we can change our goverment should it decide to become too onerous. Since most people, rightfully, just want their lives to be peaceful and easy they simply go along with changes like we have seen in the past twenty or thirty years. The Founding Fathers, knowing the inevitability of despotism, built into our guiding principles the means of fighting our 'authority'. All that is needed now is a big enough single reason, or enough small reasons to do so. I believe that the National ID plan is yet another reason that brings us closer to the day when Americans will exercise their right to remove the oppressive authority and replace it with one that does their will.

That is why I think schemes like the National ID card, along with an informed populace (via the Internet) actually bring us closer to the day of reckoning.

Let's hope it leads there instead of a Brave New World.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

BWJones (18351) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954514)

In theory, I agree with you and would even go so far as to say that many "arms" that are now illegal should be made legal so as to minimize the power differential that could theoretically be wielded against the common citizenry. However, let me ask you how many people you think would be willing to take up arms against the government... Would one, say with two kids and a mortgage, a good job and health insurance be willing to actively go up against a police force? I would wager that most Americans are so fat and happy that a vanishingly small percentage of the populace would actually be willing to sacrifice what would be required to truly overthrow a government these days. It is far easier to placate a society through shiny things while enslaving everyone through a culture of fear.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

daigu (111684) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954470)

You might be served by checking out the political compass of the U.S. election [politicalcompass.org] . The dimension that you are missing is authoritarian vs. libertarian. There are plenty of right and left wing people with a libertarian bent that would agree with your position. In fact, classic Liberalism [wikipedia.org] places liberty as the primary political value. The people you are talking about are the Stalins and the the Thatchers of the world - which has very little to do with where they happen to fall on the left and right portion of the political spectrum [politicalcompass.org] .

Common sense is lost when your major parties and governments around the world all field candidates that sit in the same quadrant - right, authoritarian.

Re:What happened??!??!? (1)

Syberghost (10557) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954542)

Objecting to national ID cards because somebody COULD MAYBE abuse them in some specific way is akin to objecting to hammers because the government COULD decide to bash your skull in with them.

I recommend a kevlar insert in your tinfoil hat if that concerns you.

Identification cards (5, Interesting)

bradsenff (1047338) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953266)

I have no problem with a centralized two-factor authentication card.

I have SERIOUS problems with the "use your SSN for everything" society we have now.

Give me a card that I have the ability to password/passcode protect, with a physical chip in it.

Oh, and make sure it requires a friggin warrant to get the "logs" of its use. Warrantless searches make me sad.

Re:Identification cards (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953588)

You dont need a warrant to conduct a search, but without one any evidence you collect will be useless in court.

Re:Identification cards (1)

Nemetroid (883968) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954280)

Out of curiosity and since I'm not well fared in the US legal system, is it required from evidence in court that it was legally obtained?

we already have a national ID card (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953998)

It is called a passport.

It identifies you, it is used all around the world.

The problem is a lot of people do not have one and a lot of people/places in this country don't know what they are. Some bars don't like it for id. I have tried I didn't live in the state and had a different state's drivers license. The sign said only instate ids were allowed. Lucky for me the owner knew a US passport was a valid form of id.

Life is easier for any Govt in a Police State (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953272)

And the USA is fast becoming a Police State:

http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/PoliceState.html [comcast.net]

mod up (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953496)

More people need to pay attention.

Re:mod up (1)

walt-sjc (145127) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953690)

More people need to stop running fascist websites that require javascript be on for simple text content...

How the USA is becoming a police state
Hey, turn on Javascript!
Yes, you!
Turn it on!


Ahh - noscript [noscript.net] .

About time they updated our Social Security Cards (3, Funny)

Dareth (47614) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953302)

... to at least include a picture.

What was that? You managed to get some service(s) without giving out your Social Security number?

Well, that was just plain UnAmerican!

And a DNA profile (1)

Cracked Pottery (947450) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953486)

Let's make sure that when the card is counterfeited, it's totally convincing.

can someone here clear this up for me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953322)

i remember, about 2 years ago the 'real id' act was attached to some military spending bill (so no politician would vote against it) and i recall reading somewhere that the first state to adopt it would be alabama, which is where i live. i recall reading also that the 'real id's would have rfid tags embedded in them.

about 4 months after it passed, our state IDs were revamped.

my question is, are these new alabama drivers licenses tagged?

hahaha, funny sidenote. the verification word /. just asked me to type is 'redneck' :D

Re:can someone here clear this up for me? (1)

Sneakernets (1026296) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954550)

Hmm, I don't think they do... Now you have me paranoid. :(

Hell, looks like I'll be carrying things in an Altoids tin if this is true.

As the Dead Kennedys would say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953338)

Give me convenience, or give me death!

Mixed Feelings (1)

Normal Dan (1053064) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953340)

I have mixed feelings about a national ID. I'm all about the small government. The national government should be there to take care of our boarders and maybe a couple of other things. National ID's are another way the Federal government is just taking away responsibility from the state. On the other hand, it could be helpful to have one national standardized ID. On the other hand, it gives big brother more power. On the other hand, it can technically make us more secure. On the other hand, how much are we willing to pay for security? On the other hand, do I even really care? Am I even on topic anymore? hrmmm...

Re:Mixed Feelings (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954090)

On the other hand, it can technically make us more secure.

How can it do that?

Re:Mixed Feelings (1)

Normal Dan (1053064) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954292)

I haven't worked out the details, but lets say I get a fake ID for Montana. Montanians can easily recognize it as a fake. However, down in Florida, they will see it as any other Montana ID. ... Like I said, I haven't got it all worked out just yet.

Re:Mixed Feelings (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954432)

Re:Mixed Feelings (1)

danpsmith (922127) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954522)

On the other hand, do I even really care? Am I even on topic anymore? hrmmm...

How about this for an on the other hand? On the other hand, I don't get to decide any issues anyway, and if I were to become a politician the only way I could raise enough money to conceivably have a chance of getting elected would to become one of the pandering retards we elect already who will probably elect Bush to high chauncellor just because the name of the bill is the "national freedom act" and they don't want to be painted in the next election as being tough on "national"s, or "freedom"s and they didn't even bother to read the bill. Everyone who wants to change the world gets elected to the position by becoming someone who will change nothing. And the world rotates.

Instead of asking yourself how do I feel about national IDs, maybe think about something more pleasant, like how great it's going to be when the national government knows everything about your purchasing habits due to their new national ID/Wachovia debit/voting card w/ electrolites (tm), and they can just sell their product lines to you directly through governmentally mailed product notices.

Re:Mixed Feelings (2, Informative)

DrJokepu (918326) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954576)

I live in an European country where national ID cards have been introduced for a long time. It is a standard credit card-sized plastic card containing personal data and a photo without any electronic/biometric/etc. stuff in it, so it's quite cheap to produce. Anyway, there are two problems with them:
  • Identity theft is a real problem here. Once you have lost your ID card, you have lost your identity, and the odds are good that someone will use it for a fraud and even if you have reported it stolen to the police, if the people who used your identity got caught they will say that you have actually sold your card to them and it is quite hard to prove the contrary.
  • Once it is obligatory to have an ID card with yourself, the police won't stop bugging you at the most random places and times, demanding to show them your card. It's quite annoying. I wish they were as successful in catching criminals as in bugging ordinary people.

In some states (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953354)

It is against the law for a man to knit during the fishing season.

It is illegal to transport an ice cream cone in your pocket.

There is a law that makes it legal for a farmer to sleep with his pigs, cows, horses, goats, and chickens.

When two trains meet each other at a railroad crossing, each shall come to a full stop, and neither shall proceed until the other has gone.

Tinfoil hats and Illuminati aside (1, Informative)

COMON$ (806135) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953378)

A national ID system while expensive would be a great thing to phase in over 10 years or so. Law enforcement could verify IDs easier with mobile identification systems. State Troopers would have an easier time tracking criminals. ID systems could be created for businesses that sell controlled substances. Not to mention the cleaner National databases. The list goes on.

We, Americans, have a National ID. Passports. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953380)

When America finally breaks apart/joins the North America Trade Union our National IDs will allow those of us who love freedom to flee to other countries that still have some sense of Freedom (I like Kenya personally, even though there is corruption, it's small enough to be fixed).

A national ID is somewhat silly when one exists.

Life easier? (2, Insightful)

crhylove (205956) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953416)

If you mean, by criminalizing all civil libertarians like myself who would refuse such an ID card, yes, I suppose it's much easier.

When are we going to officially change our flag to red white and black as it is increasingly being designated?

BLAUSCHEIM BITTE!!!

Make _WHAT_ easier for _WHOM_?? (3, Insightful)

gd23ka (324741) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953424)

--"But as we move forward and start to deliver more and more complicated services, I think that people for the most
part will want to know their government has implemented strong measures [with National ID cards]'."

I don't think we want more and more complicated services nor do we need them. We don't want to be tracked,
x-rayed, data-mined or subpoenaed by email. Actually we want less interference in our lives.

34 States have turned down a national ID card.

Re:Make _WHAT_ easier for _WHOM_?? (1)

twbecker (315312) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953714)

I think he meant offering existing services online, rather than requiring people to come into some governmental office. If the government issued me what for all intents and purposes was a fancy Social Security card, and then told me I didn't need need to come to the DMV office anymore and deal with those idiots, I dare say I'd be pretty stoked.

Re:Make _WHAT_ easier for _WHOM_?? (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954044)

You don't need a national ID card for that, since your local DMV is a state agency, not a federal one.

In many states (without a national ID card) you don't need to go the DMV anymore for anything other than taking a driving test and getting that first photo of yourself taken.

For the "Tin Foil Hat" crowd... (1)

StressGuy (472374) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953430)

Coming soon on "Miami Ink"...

"Pimp My RFID Tattoo"

{...feel free to discuss among yourselves...I'll wait :) }

It comes down to infrastructure (4, Interesting)

gbulmash (688770) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953432)

If you were to dig down, I think you'd find that the level of resistance to the initiative is directly proportional to the cost of complying. Those states that have more modernized digital systems that they could more easily adapt to comply are going to be the ones that resist least.

There is an element of states' rights here, and the federal government has become larger and more intrusive into the afairs of the states than the original framers of the Constitution intended. The original colonies, when they formed a federal republic, were very conscious of reigning in the power of the national government and how much influence it could exert over the states. Over time, the independence and self-determination of the states has been constricted. So for some states, this could be a line in the sand over principle. But for most, I suspect, the real issue is expense.

- Greg

Re:It comes down to infrastructure (1)

JesseL (107722) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953564)

I see a direct correlation there, but I beleive it's the result of a third cause. I think the states that lean more toward respecting individual liberty also tend to be the ones that haven't spent as much of their subject's money on modern digital systems for tracking the prols.

Re:It comes down to infrastructure (1)

richdun (672214) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953570)

Interesting point indeed. I wonder too if there is a hint of the old small state/big state fight here. The smaller of the original colonies were also very big on reigning in the power of the bigger colonies - thus Rhode Island's plan for the Senate and Virginia's plan for the House. Back then, compromise led to a bicameral legislature which has worked fairly well. I don't see how to compromise here. California would probably love to go to national IDs (then use them as driver's licenses) and cut the cost of the DMV and such out. Maine, on the other hand, and other small population states would hate them, in no small part due to the elimination of jobs (and, thus, a tax base) by cutting the people who take your picture for state IDs and such.

Playing on fears (3, Insightful)

MonGuSE (798397) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953440)

Seems like the answer to getting something through Government bureaucracies is play on the fears of others. Don't worry about your privacy rights we are careful not to trample on them (I'll believe it when I see it as a law). But if you don't let us do this national card with 'strong' security we can't ensure you identity won't be stolen. Your choice. I'm pretty sure the states can implement the same security measures as this card can implement. Not to mention two factor authentication is the end all of security counter measures. All you are really doing unless you get into biometrics (which only work in person biometric devices over a network are just as easy to send false data as a password or whatnot) is adding a second password, if they can get around the first they can get around the second. Ma'am enter your password, ma'am insert your usb token which can be captured just like any other password. Etc... This isn't the best explanation of two factor problems but you get the picture. BTW, the two factor solution will be a proprietary one from Diebold which will be used to secure your vote placed at Diebold e-voting paperless voting machines in 2010

Simpler times ahead (moo) }=) (1)

Humorless Coward. (862619) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953466)

It will also make Americattle easier to round-up, when the Evil Alien Warlords reveal themselves. I, for one, welcome our new master-cards. ;)

Not me... (1)

Eric Damron (553630) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953506)

I for one will NEVER carry any papers that the Government tells me that I must carry just to walk around and breath the air! They can kiss my lilly white ass.

Re:Not me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953990)

unfortunately by the time it becomes mandatory bubba will be kissing your lily white ass...in jail. either that or you will recant your statement and join the party, comrade.

Re:Not me... (1)

BlackSnake112 (912158) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954204)

I see you do not drive then....

Oh good (1)

Maximegalon (1003655) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953618)

That's what I'm here for, to make their life easier.

Identity As Security (2, Insightful)

StealthyRoid (1019620) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953622)

This is probably a point that's been made elsewhere, but the most disturbing thing about the National ID is not just that it's an egregious encroachment of our freedoms, privacy, and right to stay out of federal and commercial databases, but that it's all these things AND absolutely useless as any kind of security check. All ID card systems assume that identity proves security, that if I appear to be who I say I am, that means that I am no longer a security risk. This is just security theater. Even under the National ID system, there's nothing preventing forgery or fraudulent usage of the base documents used to get an ID card (social security card, birth cert, whatever). There's no reason Achmed bin Terrorist can't roll up to the National ID store with some real documents that, for example, aren't his but also haven't been used to generate another National ID, and get a card for himself.

There's also no reason to assume that, unique among all other ID cards, the National ID will be unforgeable, or that even if it is, the staff employed to verify that an ID card is legit will do their jobs. Government employees are the lowest common denominator in the best case, and ID checking unskilled zombies aren't likely to be any better.

Identity is not security, and LACK of identity is not a lack of security.

It does, but that is not really the point (4, Informative)

denoir (960304) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953654)

As a citizen of one of the most bureaucratized and administered countries in the world (Sweden) I can tell you that standardized ID cards are extremely convenient - especially in their electronic form. Everything from banking to ordering a new passport or paying the taxes can be done with the same system.

They've now started adding biometrics to the physical ID card. Fingerprint instead of pin code. The idea is to use it when boarding an aircraft or buying groceries etc with essentially no need for human involvement.

The question however isn't if it makes life easier or not. The relevant question is if the cost associated with it is worth it. Having a permanent unique identifier attached that can be traced, well, anywhere is not a good thing if governments or corporations abuse it. It requires privacy laws and trust that the privacy laws will be respected. Ultimately it boils down to the question: do you trust the government not to screw you over and to protect you from corporate interests? My own answers are perhaps and probably. Right now there are some worrying ideas being floated by the politicians about wiretapping and Internet traffic sniffing so my first answer might change.

Still, at this point they haven't dramatically screwed up - I mean like a patriot act level of breach of trust. So right now I'm agnostic about how good this system is.

It is in fact convenient and efficient with an axiomatic foundation of trust that can be used for communication and exchange of services at many levels of society. One just has to hope that the foundation isn't rotten.

let the stupid slashdot fud commence (-1, Troll)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953658)

it's a typical refrain to hear about how after 9/11 people were doing damages to civil liberties and playing into demagogues with their fearful responses and willingness to give up their freedoms for a little security

and yet, the same person who can articulate this position, is full of the same stupid baseless fear, in the other direction: fear of their own government

so we're getting a national id card. whoop de friggin doo. nobody is probing your nether regions, no masterplan of the illuminati is going into stage 3, the mind control chips are not activating

in other words, it's NO BIG DEAL. REALLY

but to hear it on slashdot, it's the opening of the gates to hell to get a national id

whatever!

all i see in slashdot in response to the national id card issue is fear, hysteria, and character-flaw level maltrust. no wisdom, no intelligence, no defense of any greater values or concepts can be gleaned in any of these comments

really

but you can ignore me, i'm obviously a tool of the emerging world order of secret police sent to slashdot to cast aspersions on you brilliant wise slashdotters

pffft

too many b-level hollywood cartoonish plots in your empty panic-ridden heads. not enough acceptance of mundane simple, drama-less progress

yes, i said it: a national id is PROGRESS: it makes life easier. and NO MORE

that's the beginning of the story. that's the end of the story with the national id card

i'll say it again: that's the beginning of the story. that's the end of the story with the national id card. a little stupid pointless progress

sorry it's not like the plot of the da vinci code you paranoid schizophrenics. there are no vast evil forces hell bent on taking away your rights and turning you into slaves in washington dc. there's just a bunch of well-meaning, low iq bureacrats. that's it. no drama. no subterfuge. sorry!

you're all a bunch of spastic freaks

you speak of how the vast hordes of clueless americans are willing to cave into fear and give up on their rights

but the only clueless fear-ridden panic-driven idiots i see aorund here is the kind i see in paranoid distrustful chronic hysteria about thier government i see in the comments on slashdot

idiots

go buld your bunkers in the woods, stockpile your guns and your cans of tuna, unplug your pcs, and kindly shut up

because you're the hysterical nitwits who operate based on fear

you're the ignorant ones

Re:let the stupid slashdot fud commence (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953724)

Are you afraid of capital letters and punctuation? Go ahead, use your shift key. The Illuminati aren't monitoring it.

Re:let the stupid slashdot fud commence (1)

MarkGriz (520778) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953786)

"i'm obviously a tool of the emerging world order of secret police sent to slashdot to cast aspersions on you brilliant wise slashdotters"

See, he even admits it. Quick, mod him into oblivion.

(seriously, how you weren't immediately labeled a troll is beyond me. Maybe all the mods left work early or are already getting drunk)

because i'm not a troll (0, Troll)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954026)

that's alright slashbots: label me a troll, label me flamebait. i don't tow the lowest common denominator line around here, how dare i, right? mod me into obvlivion! f***ing sheep

i'm not a troll

what i say is the truth:

you hear about how it's the american sheeple who give up their liberties for security because of fear

yet the only fear and panic and hysteria i see are in the comments on slashdot

it's a simple prudent unremarkable bit of efficiency, a national id

and yet to hear it on slashdot, it's an orwellian nightmare

right now the tags for this story reads:

"privacy, usa, bigbrother (tagging beta)"

bigbrother? oh really?

is this maybe a little panic-ridden? a little fearful? basing your opinion on fear and distrust rather than intelligence and wisdom and simple f***ing faith in your fellow man and your government?

well no, excuse me, it's much more obvious to talk about george orwell's 1984, right?

look, slashdot morons:

science fiction...reality

TWO. DIFFERENT. THINGS

but i'm just a troll right?

pffft

no, i'm not the troll, i'm the only one here who isn't a f***ing paranoid schizophrenic pissing in their pants over a f***ing national id card

OH NOES!

IT'S 1984!

EVERYBODY PANIC

f***ing pantywaist idiots

IT'S JUST A FUCKING NATIONAL ID CARD

NO

BIG

F***ING DEAL

now go ahead, mod me into oblivion assholes

i'm not cowering in the corner in fear out of goosestepping fascists poppping up out of nowhere

air headed nitwits

Re:let the stupid slashdot fud commence (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17953914)

One more use for a national ID card is as some sort of electronic 'yellow star'.

godwin'ed

Re:let the stupid slashdot fud commence (1)

Rob the Bold (788862) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954170)

Is this a troll, or are you hoping that if you rant against mistrust of the government for long enough your shift key will start working again?

it's not a troll (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954226)

slashdot whines about the american sheeple giving up their liberties out of fear and panic

but the only fear and panic and hysteria going is in the typical slashdot maltrust of simple progress in efficiency with national ids

but to hear a slashdotter tell it, a national id card today, enslavement in mind control chips tomorrow

oh really?

a little paranoid schizophrenic, don't you think?

it's hilarious: slashdot is the bastion of fear and panic and hysteria, not the other way around

that's the simple truth

Re:let the stupid slashdot fud commence (1)

mrscorpio (265337) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954510)

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
--Thomas Jefferson

Re:let the stupid slashdot fud commence (2, Insightful)

Anon-Admin (443764) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954570)

Time to feed the troll, we all enjoy it. :)

The government should never be trusted!

George Washington (1732 - 1799)
Government Like Fire

Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

It is not the governments job to ID me, tag me, or give a flying F**K what I do, provided I do not infringe on others rights.

What is the government's job?

Try this

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed.

The government's job is to secure our rights, not to remove them!

So, while you accept the ID cards, I do not! While you accept restrictions on your rights (To keep and bear arms), I do NOT! While you accept restrictions on your rights, I resist them! I will continue to resist them tell the day I die.

For whom exactly? (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#17953678)

Makes life easier for whom exactly?

national ID is superior as long as it is open (1)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954006)

I love the idea of everyone being issued a smart-card signed through a federal PKI. If such a system were open so that anyone with a smart-card reader use it, you could use that one card for EVERYTHING from unlocking hotel room doors to making credit card purchases to signing email messages!

Pop in a card and you can be sure (via digital signatures) that card really is Joe Citizen of Example, NY. Ask Visa if Joe has a credit card account, if so, bill to that with almost no risk of fraud.

Listen: This is a great idea if it is done right. You ALREADY trust the government to identify you. Let them do it properly and we could have some truly awesome benefits.

Move to better system req Government backing (1)

sBox (512691) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954030)

A national ID card would offer so many benefits in the long run. Photo ID just does not cover the needs of today's at-your-fingerips information society. You want a secure banking transaction at an ATM? You want someone to offer better security at the airport? You want to decrease fraud? Time to add general, large scale adoption of a better system of identification, as a biometric system would. It has to be done on a large scale to reduce costs.

Start with the ID card. If businesses and agencies adopt it, good, but it is an option. Add some bar code that equates to a retinal scan or some other form of unique ID. Put it on the back of the ID card in place of that stupid 'I can make you walk the drunk line, or else' warning. If agencies want to use it, they can scan it with their cuecat. If not, no major cost has been expended.

California - wtf? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17954046)

While parts of California make Nazi Germany look like a paradise, I'm surprised to see that the our state politicians have hopped onto the National ID bandwagon.

One of the provisions of the Real ID act means that illegal citizens won't be able to get ID. This has been a very hot topic in California. Allowing illegals to get ID almost passed a couple years back. And, while our current Governator came into office opposed to it, the political heat has been such that he's starting to lean towards it.

So the only thing I can figure out is that our Hispanic population hasn't realized that the Feds are about to slam the door shut in their faces on this issue. This is surprising, as this segment has been very politically active.

It will be very amusing to see what happens when they figure this one out.

Submitter? (0, Flamebait)

Radon360 (951529) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954254)

Does anyone else see the irony in this article being submitted by a Canadian?

Why the FUD? (1)

piggydoggy (804252) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954274)

I cannot understand the paranoia about ID cards. An ID card is just another form of identification, just like the driver's licence or the passport. You're not required to use an ID card any more than you are required to use the driver's licence or passport - as a form of ID they are interchangeable and any of them is legal ID in the real world.

In addition it has the added benefit of securely housing a private key pair, issued by a trusted third party, which cannot be snooped, at least not without physically obtaining and irreversibly and obviously destroying the card. This allows for extremely neat online services, since you (as a service provider) can securely identify a client for services that require privacy and identification, without ever seeing him in person and checking his ID. You could open bank accounts, do taxes, buy guns, display their phonecall or credit card logs, all the kind of things that you'd normally need to see the person in the flesh and check his ID for -- without ever meeting the person, or knowing anything at all about him beforehand, as the government has already done the identification for you.

It's strange that people are afraid of the government somehow learning more about you, or being able to track you somehow more than they can using credit cards. The government already knows you from when they issued your birth certificate, driver's licence and passport -- how do you suppose you're even considered a citizen? An ID card is just the same, except it has a key pair which you can use to identify yourself on websites that today would require in-the-flesh registration and code cards.

Some thoughts... (2, Insightful)

DnemoniX (31461) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954296)

If implemented properly how is a National ID a bad thing? Before you start warming up your keyboard to start flaming me with your rants from one side or the other think about it objectively for a second. A few points to consider:

"But what about Big Brother?"
Does anyone here honestly think that any Federal Law Enforcement Agency can not access all of the information tied to your Drivers License?

"What about my privacy?"
Once again, how does this lessen your privacy? You willfully submit all of this information to your State to obtain an ID card or drivers license. Once again do you honestly think the Feds can not access this already?

"What about my guns?"
Once again when you purchase that weapon depending on the type and or State you reside in, you willfully fork over all sorts of personal information to the government.

Ok now lets think about convenience for a few minutes. Having lived all over the Country for work I have had to switch my drivers license from State to State. I moved from one State to another and getting my new license was a breeze $15 and 10 minutes of my time, however when I moved back to my home State a few years later I was forced to pay a large fee and retake the written exam over again; then wait 6 weeks for the new one, even though my out of State license was valid. What if you never had to do that again?

What if when a police officer makes a traffic stop on an out of state vehicle he was actually able to, with a high degree of certainty, identify the person? There are numerous accounts in law enforcement of wanted criminals going unnoticed because a small local agency was unable to identify the person.

States who object to this aren't trying to protect your privacy or security, they are protecting the revenue that they generate through licensing fees. If you disagree with that, please before you rip on that point I encourage you to take a walk over to the DMV and grab a copy of the fee schedule. Look closely at the number of various fees and the amounts. All of those fees are set by each individual state. A unified system would also mean level fees across all states, which would be set by the Feds and not the individual States.

Just a little food for thought...

can`t see the forest for the trees (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17954366)

"But as we move forward and start to deliver more and more complicated services,..."

THAT'S THE FRIKKIN POINT!! We don't want more "services". We want less goverment.

Our current system uses birth, driving, retirement (2, Interesting)

neo (4625) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954388)

Is anyone else weirded out that a piece of paper Certifying your Birth, your License to Drive and your Social Security card are the main means of identifying you? It's all cobbled together in a strange and nasty web of connected requirements. I need all three to get a Passport, but then I can't use my Passport to get a Driver's license.

Now logically you should be able to get one from the others.

But I digress.

I know we all fear the national ID number... but we already have it. If you have a passport, it's that. If you have a SSN, it's that. Driver's license? These are all ID. If you Nationalize ID's, then we can put limits on what they can and can't be used for, but right now these other numbers are unprotected. Take your SSN and post it as a reply and you'll see what I mean.

I don't quite think you guys actually need one. (1)

Annoyed broccoli (912877) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954418)

Instead of screaming how evil national ID cards are, you guys should use your powers to get your congresspersons to fix your information privacy laws. In fact get them to enact privacy laws like we have back home in old Europe:
  • Must not use information for another purpose than collected in the first place
  • Must provide the entirety of collected personal data upon request from the "collectee"
  • Must correct/remove the data upon request
  • Must not store the data beyond a reasonable period
  • Must not use IDs to cross reference between system
Of course, we don't have the convenience of being able to use our driver's license when we forget our library card, but identity theft is typically not a problem. So we do carry ID cards to prove who we are (ie citizen), because no other piece of information proves that much.

I would bitch if I were a US citizen, but I'm not, so I can't. It belongs to you get your privacy rights sorted. That national ID thing is just a bone thrown at you to make you feel you're in control of your privacy.

I tell you another anecdote: Someone once hit my car while it was parked. An anonymous person left me a note with the description of the car and license plate. The note was written on a receipt from CVS. The purchase was made the day before at CVS, paid by credit card, but the person who wrote the note didn't leave his or her name, and blacked out the credit card number.

I showed the note to cop, who wasn't fazed: He told me he could just go to the store where we purchase was made, and lookup from the items purchased what the credit card number was, and from there find who left the note.

You guys have no privacy. National ID cards or not.

National ID makes life easier.... (1)

dredson (620914) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954476)

...for big brother to spy on you and for criminals to more easily steal your identity.

Whats the big deal? (1)

doroshjt (1044472) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954486)

I don't know why people freak out over this, you already have an id, a drivers license, how does giving this id to the federal as opposed to the state government some how infringe on your civil liberties? If someone can give me rational reason's I could change my mind.

Makes life A LOT easier for totalitarian govts (2, Informative)

UpnAtom (551727) | more than 7 years ago | (#17954588)

According to Prevent Genocide International, No other factor [than ID cards] was more significant in facilitating the speed and magnitude of the 100 days of mass killing in Rwanda. About 1 million people butchered.

From the same page [preventgenocide.org] :

In Nazi Germany in July 1938, only a few months before Kristallnacht, the infamous "J-stamp" was introduced on ID cards and later on passports. The use of specially marked "J-stamp" ID cards by Nazi Germany preceded the yellow Star of David badges. In Norway, where yellow cloth badges were not introduced, the stamped ID card was used in the identification of more than 750 Jews deported to death camps in Poland.

They also provide a 'nice' table:

Genocide: Nazi Germany (1938-1945), Rwanda (1990-1994)

Mass Expulsion: Ethiopia (Persons with Eritrean affiliation 1998), Bhutan (Lhotshampas, 1991), Vietnam (Hoa ethnic Chinese 1978-1979), France (Alsace-Lorraine 1918-1920)

Forced Relocation: USSR (ethnic Koreans 1937, Volga Germans 1941, Kalmyks, Karachai, 1943, Crimean Tatars, Meshkhetian Turks Chechens, Ingush, Balkars 1944, ethnic Greeks, 1949)

Group Denationalization: Cambodia (ethnic Vietnamese 1993), Myanmar (Rohingya Arakanese 1992), Syria (Kurds 1962)

In regard to the UK cattle tagging ID card system, The Times reported [timesonline.co.uk] :

David Blunkett, was no better. On the subject of identity cards he once said: No one should fear correct identification. Those words always remind me of one the more distressing details of the Eichmann trial: how he told his executioner that the fate of those killed in the Holocaust was sealed by their answers to the 1939 census on religious background recorded on paper for a Hollerith machine, an early mechanical computer. Quite literally, their cards were marked.

Needless to say, lesser abuses than these are far more common.

The UK system is unbelievably scary. Going far beyond the punchcard Hollerith machine, our ID cards are backed by the National Identity Register, a database designed to merge all government databases and commercial data trails into a personal surveillance dossier [bristol-no2id.org.uk] that makes 1984 look respectful.

So scared is the Govt of the public finding out about this that they are secretly forcing passport renewers [renewforfreedom.org] on to this Orwellian database from March 26th.

They are also forcing doctors to betray their patients' confidence and upload your private medical records to another insecure national database [thebigoptout.org] , again without telling you.

I'm sorry if you haven't been warned about this before: NO2ID [no2id.net] has a budget around 1000 times smaller than the Home Office but you do still have a few weeks to protect yourself. Click the 3 links above and most importantly, read the NO2ID newsletter [no2id.net] .

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