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Apple May Be Re-Entering the Sub-Notebook Market

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the time-to-upgrade dept.

Portables (Apple) 281

An anonymous reader writes "AppleInsider is reporting that Apple has plans to reenter the sub-notebook market this year. The project, the article states, should be unveiled around the time of WWDC (summer). Drawing parallels to the legendary PowerBook 2400, the sub-notebook will offer some of the best elements of old and new. With a small footprint, light weight, and manageable screen it will fill a niche not currently occupied by any Apple hardware. At the same time, it will offer some new technologies that the current crop of computers do not: 'The new MacBook model is expected to introduce some features not yet available with Apple's existing notebook offerings, such as onboard NAND flash. Plans reportedly call for the notebook to be the first of the company's MacBook offerings to utilize the solid-state memory in order to improve power efficiency and facilitate near instantaneous boot times. This feature, however, had not been frozen upon last check.' Apple hopes this micro-notebook will capture interest both here in the states and in Japan, where the appeal of small consumer electronics may offset the current weak computer market."

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Mac Tablets (5, Interesting)

man_ls (248470) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039506)

I'd be sold at nearly any price if they'd just include tablet functionality.

I'm not terribly fond of Windows (most of my apps would run under Wine or Parallels, the only Win-Only suite I really use is OneNote) but if there were a Mac replacement, I'd probably buy.

They're quick, pretty computers with easy software that doesn't get in the way.

An ultraportable tablet running an OS that stays out of my way is like a dream...its too bad that Apple is so shy of making a tablet.

Re:Mac Tablets (0, Offtopic)

ModernGeek (601932) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039992)

Offtopic, but is there anything for the mac that is comparable to streets and trips? I bought it with the Microsoft GPS thingy, and it works great in Parallels, but I'd like to stay native to the mac.

Re:Mac Tablets (1)

xero314 (722674) | more than 7 years ago | (#18042096)

Offtopic, but is there anything for the mac that is comparable to streets and trips?
Mapquest, or Google Maps. All three will give you incorrect locations of an address, with streets and trips being the worst of them. Yes I do no the added functionality that you get with streets and trips but having spent hours trying to find places based on the maps that thing spits out has really jaded me against the product. My guess is that they all share the same source for their data since every single one is wrong about the placement of my house (and not my one or two lots, but a noticeable distance). The advantage to mapquest and google maps is that they are free and are more likely to be updated regularly.

Re:Mac Tablets (1)

metalcup (897029) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040058)

what do ya know.., I was just about to post the same thing!

I have a 17" G4 now, and it is great for my 'off-server' grunt work. Having used Windows, OS X, and multiple versions of *nix, I really really want a tablet where I can use OS X.

Thinking of tablets, are there any successful implementations of linux on tablets, where the screen recognition/screen writing s/w works?

Thanks!

Re:Mac Tablets (5, Informative)

great throwdini (118430) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040062)

I'd be sold at nearly any price if they'd just include tablet functionality.

It's not ultraportable, but this should meet the "for nearly any price" requirement: Axiotron ModBook [macsales.com] .

Re:Mac Tablets (2, Insightful)

WillAdams (45638) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040322)

While I'm sorely tempted by the ModBook, it lacks the niceties and synergies afforded by the nice suite of peripherals available for my Fujitsu Stylistic --- in particular being able to drop my pen slate into a docking station on my desktop and instantly being connected to full-sized keyboard and mouse, Wacom graphics tablet, 17" display, network, printer and CD-ROM drive is something I'm not wild about giving up.

Apple's ``Best of Both Worlds'' (codename for the initial PowerBook Duo and docking station, ``Bob-W'') is something I'd like to see them re-visit.

William

Re:Mac Tablets (2, Informative)

great throwdini (118430) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040868)

It lacks the niceties and synergies afforded by the nice suite of peripherals available for my Fujitsu Stylistic [...] being able to drop my pen slate into a docking station on my desktop and instantly being connected to full-sized keyboard and mouse, Wacom graphics tablet, 17" display, network, printer and CD-ROM drive is something I'm not wild about giving up.

Not that I'm in the market for the ModBook myself, but it does come with a SuperDrive (your last point) and BlueTooth/AirPort should solve issues with keyboard/mouse, network, and printing (why tether to a docking station for such?) ... that leaves the tablet (which it somewhat already is) and the external display, two peripherals that can still be connected to the ModBook, no?

I don't see the ModBook missing out on any of the above [axiotron.com] .

Re:Mac Tablets (1)

simpl3x (238301) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040484)

Absolutely!!!

Even on the Windows end, I wish that more tablet manufacturers realized that a powerful graphics system is helpful. My ideal system would be a powerful small tablet that I connect to a Cintiq and a Happy Hacker keyboard at the desk. It should have a nice dock with additional disk space and a DVD-R... Solid state storage would be great, and I'd even be willing to pay quite a bit for a 200 gig, but that really isn't totally feasable yet. I liked the concept of the new ModBook, but the aesthetics and configuration isn't very elegant.

Have you ever used Tablet Planner? Very, very nice. I wasn't as fond of the second revision, but still it is very useful.

Re:Mac Tablets (1)

Frohboy (78614) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040680)

Hmm... that may be feasible in the not-too-distant future. If you think about the hot touch-screen features of the iPhone, they should be able to move that over to a tablet (especially if the iPhone is indeed running OS X).

The common wisdom (for what it's worth) seems to be that Apple doesn't release something until they can do it well. So, with a decent touchscreen interface, and their already popular laptops, they may just be reaching that point for a tablet.

I'm not going to hold my breath, but it at least seems reasonable that the planets are aligning nicely to make an Apple tablet seem releasable.

Re:Mac Tablets (1)

_|()|\| (159991) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041552)

the only Win-Only suite I really use is OneNote

I'm not familiar with OneNote, but I've heard it mentioned in discussions of outlining / note-taking / "junk drawer" apps., such as OmniOutliner [omnigroup.com] , DEVONthink [devon-technologies.com] , and Yojimbo [barebones.com] . This seems to be a particularly hot genre on the Mac right now.

Cool (2, Interesting)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039508)

I'm a Mac user and I really like my MacBook Pro, but I also like really small subnotebooks. So, I'd love to see a super miniature version of the MacBook. It would be bitchin. I keep looking at a friend's Sony subnotebook and saying that it must be nice to have such a small book and I wish it could run MacOS X.

Re:Cool (4, Funny)

EtherAlchemist (789180) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039742)


With a sub version of the MBP, you'd at least burn a smaller protion of your lap ;)

Re:Cool (1)

thrustinj (951534) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040824)

It's the reason I asked work to buy me a black MacBook instead of a MacBook Pro they wanted to get me. Size and weight matter. And .33mhz doesn't really matter that much. As long as they don't slump on the processor too much and give it at least a 800 pixel wide screen.

Re:Cool (1)

JimDaGeek (983925) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041314)

There are more differences to the MBP and the MB. The processor speed difference doesn't matter much at all. The MBP has a _much_ faster hard drive. Hard drive speed makes a _huge_ difference for laptops. My MB hard drive is driving me crazy at how slow it is...

Re:Cool (1)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041738)

There are more differences to the MBP and the MB. The processor speed difference doesn't matter much at all. The MBP has a _much_ faster hard drive. Hard drive speed makes a _huge_ difference for laptops. My MB hard drive is driving me crazy at how slow it is...
According to Apple's tech specs on these models, they have the same hard drives available: a 5400 rpm hard drive or a 200GB 4200 rpm hard drive.

I picked the MacBook Pro for these reasons: I wanted better video hardware (uses ATI instead of Intel), I wanted the 15" non-glossy screen, and they keyboard on the MacBook is teh suck (reminds me of the IBM PCjr).

The important question (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18039526)

Will it be dubbed the Mini MacBook, or the MacBook Mini?

The Pacific Theatre (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18039540)

Apple May Be Re-Entering the Sub-Notebook Market
You may recall the post-war embarrassment revealing that Microsoft had parked U-Notebooks right off the coast in the closest harbor to Cupertino, California. With Microsoft's blitzkrieg campaign imploaded, Apple can safely enter the waters once again.

Re:The Pacific Theatre (5, Funny)

nacturation (646836) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039584)

You may recall the post-war embarrassment revealing that Microsoft had parked U-Notebooks right off the coast in the closest harbor to Cupertino, California. With Microsoft's blitzkrieg campaign imploaded, Apple can safely enter the waters once again.
Why else do you think Apple release Das Boot Camp?
 

Re:The Pacific Theatre (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18040290)

I think it's called Dasbootkampfurwindowsundmacosxloaden

Re:The Pacific Theatre (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18040400)

That's *ge*loaden, dummkopf!

Let it be a Newton replacement as well.... (4, Interesting)

WillAdams (45638) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039554)

I'd really like to see Apple do something interesting and compelling in the pen slate computer form-factor --- at the very least they should add a digitizer to the screen and make it a convertable (having the screen fold over the keyboard while still being visible --- something better than a ThinkPad 360PE or Vadem Clio &c.).

It's silly that InkWell (nee Rosetta, the print recognizer from Newton OS 2.0) is bundled w/ every copy of Mac OS X, yet is only enabled when one plugs in a graphics tablet (and only fully usable if one shells out for a Wacom Cintiq).

William

Re:Let it be a Newton replacement as well.... (2, Interesting)

pilgrim23 (716938) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039846)

Rosetta! Rosetta! Rosetta! Hey thats me!

If you have a Apple and a pad; try writing "Rosetta!" three times. It was a Newton Easter Egg and from what I have heard migrated into OS X from its smaller cousin.

Re:Let it be a Newton replacement as well.... (1)

WillAdams (45638) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040246)

Only if you're still using Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar (maybe Panther too), but definitely not on 10.4 Tiger.

Rosetta! Rosetta! Rosetta!

is all I get in 10.4 after clicking the ``Send'' button in the Ink window after writing that out.

William

Re:Let it be a Newton replacement as well.... (1)

Tumbleweed (3706) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041276)

If you have a Apple and a pad; try writing "Rosetta!" three times. It was a Newton Easter Egg and from what I have heard migrated into OS X from its smaller cousin.

It's still in there, but I would advise against doing this -- the easter egg is that a killer comes out of the machine and chops you into bits.

Re:Let it be a Newton replacement as well.... (1)

Nimey (114278) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041316)

Hastur! Hastur! Hastur!

Re:Let it be a Newton replacement as well.... (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041522)

Eat up Martha?

(reference here for the Simpsons-challenged) [improvidentlackwit.com]

Re:Let it be a Newton replacement as well.... (1)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041778)

Egg Freckles.

Re:Let it be a Newton replacement as well.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18040458)

It's widely suspected that Apple no longer owns Rosetta, or at least not parts of it. The theory goes that back when Apple was in trouble and Microsoft invested 150M, part of the undisclosed stuff was that Microsoft would gain rights (if not ownership outright) of a lot of the Newton Technologies, including the HWR.

Size (1)

simpl3x (238301) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040628)

I always liked the Newton, but thought that it should be a bit larger. My Fujitsu slate was pretty near perfect, except for Windows and Intel Graphics. The thing weighed in at 2 lbs! Not bad at all...

The PowerBook 2400 was my favorite Mac ever. I owned 2 of them. What a fantastic profile. even now looking at the photos, they still look like great machines. I bought a MacBook instead of the MacBook Pro for the size, and I'm not the only one I know. Apple should realize that they are losing sales to lower end machines.

Here's dreaming that true pro Mac slate comes someday!

I'd be interested if... (4, Interesting)

Hawthorne01 (575586) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039562)

... it included something like the iPhone interface and/or Inkwell and was a convertible.

Sub-notebook keyboards are a little cramped for me. Yes, I know Bluetooth keyboard blahblahblah (I'm using one with my Powerbook as I type this), but you can't carry that on the road.

Re:I'd be interested if... (1)

metlin (258108) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040298)

I'd buy one if it had another mouse button.

I know that you can use control + button for right click, but everytime I've used that combination, it has felt unnatural (I agree, it is probably a matter of what I am used to, but Apple is still asking me to unlearn a muscle memory).

And if I decide to run Windows and/or Linux on my Apple notebook, it would be worse since using an UI where I am used to the right mouse button without it would be hard.

I understand the original reasoning behind a single button, but context-menus and two mouse-buttons are now commonplace and Apple is just being a tad stubborn (and inconsiderate of user needs, I feel) in not introducing a second button. I was extremely close to buying a Macbook Pro, and the only reason I did not is because of the mouse.

On Macs alone, it might be a different thing - but when you dual boot, I just need that second mouse button. Until the day Apple changes and introduces that - at the very least as an option - I am not buying an Apple notebook.

Re:I'd be interested if... (2, Informative)

swid27 (869237) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040432)

Re:I'd be interested if... (2, Insightful)

metlin (258108) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040558)

Like I said, it feels unnatural to me and every other notebook out there has another button on the trackpad for right-click.

I find it annoying having to learn another thing (and especially since I have a muscle-memory of using mouse + keyboard combinations).

If IBM took off a button, I'd move to Dell and if Dell did, I'd move to HP. So, why should I treat Apple any differently for not having a feature that is very common (not to mention desirable and widespread in use)? It's not like people haven't asked for this before [cnet.com] .

It is the fact that there is something that I am used to in an input device that is not available on Apple products, and that it makes me feel extremely crippled - sure, I could learn to live with it by finding alternative means to achieve what is commonly in use elsewhere, or I could buy from another manufacturer who has what the majority of the customers want.

Re:I'd be interested if... (4, Interesting)

Spyky (58290) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041358)

I take it you haven't actually tried using the two finger mouse click for very long. It took me less than a week after purchasing my Macbook Pro to get used to this trick. I now find it easier and faster than a traditional right button on a trackpad. The reason? I don't have to "find" the right mouse button that is always in a different position relative to my finger depending where my finger is currently resting on the track pad. The problem of locating the left and right buttons is unique to trackpads, since your fingers are not always resting in the same position as on a mouse. You may not think the button finding is really much of problem since it's something you are already used too on your ibm or dell or hp. But try using a macbook for a week, then the two button solution on your old notebook will feel positively clunky.

Regarding the other comment in this thread about not being able to right-click drag with the two finger solution: I don't think this is true, although I'm having a hard time finding anything I have installed that can make use of a right-click drag. But it is certainly possible to move the cursor after performing a two finger right click (just keep two fingers on the pad while holding the button). Any application that allows a right-click drag should respond in exactly the same was as a right-click drag with a mouse. If anyone knows of an application that uses a right-click drag, I'll try it and respond with the results.

-Spyky

Re:I'd be interested if... (1)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040764)

I take it you haven't heard about the two-finger right click functionality

That doesn't cover all right-button uses; for instance, you can't right-click-and-drag with the two-finger method. I use this all the time, and I have to carry a mouse with my ($2800!!!) Macbook pro so that I can actually do it. And I use the two-finger trick all the time, as well as the control button trick. It's just not the same, and it is long past time for Apple to simply say "ooops" and fix the darned thing. Two buttons are considerably better than one; and so on for a reasonable number of buttons, for that matter. It really is just that simple.

Re:I'd be interested if... (1)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041826)

That doesn't cover all right-button uses; for instance, you can't right-click-and-drag with the two-finger method.
Yes you can. Also, I find that it isn't an issue in MacOS X. It is only an issue when I'm trying to use WinXP on my MacBook Pro (which is rarely).

WWDN?? (2, Funny)

justinmikehunt (872382) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039628)

The project, the article states, should be unveiled around the time of WWDC
When did Wil switch over to .com instead of .net?

An overcrowed market (1)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039646)

In an overcrowed marked like this you need a real innovative and functional product. Maybe Apple's PR machine (which can sell ice to an eskimo even if the ice was mediocre) could make some money here. Oh, DMRed of course!

I repeat (5, Insightful)

Jethro (14165) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039652)

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Just make a 13.3" MacBookPro already! I don't want a MacBook and I don't want a 15.whatever laptop.

I love my 12" Powerbook but it's getting to the point where it's just too underpowered, and I don't have an upgrade path that I'm happy with.

Re:I repeat (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18039918)

I'm always curious why people think they need/want a MBP instead of a plain old MB. Maybe you truly need one, but I've found for most people, they don't. That's because Apple has made them much too close in terms of general features and performance. The Pro has a slightly faster CPU, but anyone not doing long scientific calculations is unlikely to ever notice. It has a real 3-d card, but are you really going to play the two 3-d games available for the Mac to justify that? I doubt a 13.3 inch MBP would have room for an expresscard slot, and probably not FW 800 either. So what's the need for a 13.3 inch Pro? I don't really see it, and I'll bet Apple doesn't either.

Re:I repeat (1)

Jethro (14165) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040404)

I want a MBP rather than a MP because A) I don't like the shiny screen the MB comes with, B) I /really/ don't like the crap plastic keyboard on the MB, and C) Hell, I'll admit it, the MB looks like a toy, whereas the MBP looks like A COMPUTER.

Re:I repeat (1)

Pollardito (781263) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040594)

It has a real 3-d card, but are you really going to play the two 3-d games available for the Mac to justify that?
i'm not the parent poster, but i play WoW on my 12" powerbook occasionally. it's decent for doing some quick logins and farming tasks if i don't feel like getting out of bed, but it could use some more oomph for some harder to render spots

Re:I repeat (2, Interesting)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041068)

I'm always curious why people think they need/want a MBP instead of a plain old MB.

(1) Higher display resolution and more display space at 17 inches (I do graphics intensive stuff); (2) faster display hardware; (3) More memory; (4) faster CPU cores; (5) bigger screen; (6) more ports; (7) illuminated keyboard (turns out, I love this little feature.)

There are some things I don't care about or consider really bad design decisions -- the MBP has much better sound, but that is to say that that the MB built-in sound sucks at 1 on a scale from 0 to 10, and the MBP sound sucks at a scale of about 2 on that same scale, easily twice as good while still managing to sound like an old Victrola heard through tinfoil, while consuming space that could have really been better used by (for instance) a full keyboard instead of the same retarded one without a keypad or perhaps something clever like a built in mini-tablet or an iPod dock or really, just about anything but the really crappy speakers they put there. Sigh. And the bloody single button design, don't even get me started on how retarded that is. I have to carry a mouse so I can work because of that; now that pisses me off.

Overall, the MBP is a much better fit for me than the MB. That's not to say they couldn't improve on it.

Re:I repeat (1)

Dirk Pitt (90561) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041974)

And the bloody single button design

Have you tried the two-finger setup? Under system pref, you can configure the touchpad to sense a single-finger tap as a left click, and a double-finger tap as a right click. Also, dragging two fingers replicates a scroll wheel. 'Took me a little while to get used to, but it's second nature now - and I use mine for CAD development.

Re:I repeat (1)

wile_e_wonka (934864) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040110)

Word, brother! This isn't the same as the "plain old MacBook"--the pro has more memory, a better graphics card, etc.

I want a mac for my next computer, but I'm not finding the features I want matching with the size computer I want.

What I would like... (2, Insightful)

EtherAlchemist (789180) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039698)


... is to see them get their exisiting line of notebooks to work without problems or failures before they add more to the market. I am sad to say, especially with the Mac Book Pros, it seems like they've taken a few steps back with regards to reliability.

I'm probably more than a little biased because my own has had some problems, but so have a lot of other people waiting at that damn Genius Bar in the Apple store. Other customers I've talked to are in there for really similar problems (to mine and each other) and you have to wonder how much QA went into them and then subsequently why they were released with the problems.

Of course, you could also wonder why Apple customers (myself included) continue to stand by their chosen brand and accept it.

Expand the line, but fix the problems first- not after their in the wild.

Re:What I would like... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18039946)

So you're judging the quality of Apple's laptop hardware based on the representative sample of people in line at the customer service counter (aka Genius Bar)? That's brilliant, I also conclude that 100% of Home Depot items are faulty based on what I heard and saw at the return counter at Home Depot.

Re:What I would like... (1)

bug_hunter (32923) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040294)

Maybe he also could base it on this http://appledefects.com/ [appledefects.com] or the fact that software products such as "Quiet Mac Book Pro" were made (it wastes CPU cycles to get rid of a buzzing noise after Apple didn't do anything about that for months), or the fact it runs at 70 degrees.
Maybe he's waited in the customer service line before and it hadn't been so damn long.
Personally I had to take my MacBookPro to the repairer 6 times! and the only time I had to take in my G4 Powerbook was for the battery recall. (I also have 2 dead pixels and a warped case for the MacBookPro).

There is more than enough evidence that Apple dropped the ball on hardware quality for laptops. I was stupid for getting a first generation item (I needed a laptop for work at the time), but it would be good to know that if I was to get a replacement laptop from Apple in the future, I could do so with confidence.

Re:What I would like... (2, Interesting)

EtherAlchemist (789180) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040818)


OK, you're obviously being an ass (and not a particulalry clever one), but let's apply the Apple experience to Home Depot anyway.

Let's pretend Home Depot makes and sells their own cordless drills. You buy one of these drills and shortly after purchase, it stops working properly. So you take it back to Home Depot. For the purpose of this scenario let's also say they have the ability to repair it on the spot. You go to the store, wait in line for an hour (or if you spent 15% of the cost of your expensive drill on the Home Depot care plan, you wait 30 minutes) to talk to a repair specialist.

While you're waiting, you notice many of the other people in line have the same drill. Out of curiosity you ask what's up with their drills, and they all have similar problems.

When it's your turn, you tell the repair guy you want a replacement drill and he says they don't replace them there. All he can do is repair it but you'll have to drop it off for at least a day, maybe more. You leave it there for repair, even though you need your drill for your business, because what you need more is for it to work.

While it's in for repair, you check out forums and boards in the Home Depot Drill community online. You read through the Do It Yourself notes on Home Depots site. You make note of their warranty which says they will repair OR replace faulty drills and wonder why you were told they don't replace units. In your checking around you find indeed that a lot more people have the same problems with their drills.

Home Depot calls you up and says your drill is ready, they replaced the motor and drive unit. You notice on the repair sheet this is more than half the cost of the drill itself.

Now, you take it home and it develops another problem since repair. You can't drill in reverse and if you leave it over night you have to take the battery out and put it back in in order to get it to drill forward. Back to Home Depot for you.

This time, you go to the other Home Depot because you think they might get it right. Waiting in line again, you still see most of the people here, too, have the same drill and describe the same problems you had originally.

You now tell the Home Depot Genius about your problems since repair, and he takes it away for another day or two.

Now, at this point, you're going to come to the same conclusion about your drill that I did about my notebook- it has hardware problems. But that's not the end of the story, because now you're certain it has problems and you want a new one hoping a later revision has the problems corrected.

You go home, call up the Home Depot Support line and talk to a rpoduct specialist. You tell them of your drill's problems and ask how you can just replace the unit. They want you to have it repaired again and if it has problems then they'll talk replacememnt.

Home Depot calls you up, and he can't repro your latest woe. You need to come pick up your drill.

Back home (again) you call up the Home Depot Support line (again) and get a new specialist. He sounds like he might be the key to you getting a new drill until he tells you replacement will take 5 to 7 WEEKS or that you can send your drill into their depot for repair. So now, instead of being without it for a couple of days it's going to be gone for a week or more. Nothing you say will get you a new drill and you realize they've got you over a barrel because you can't afford to pick up a new drill while you wait for them to try, again, to fix your drill.

So you know, yeah, you'd be pretty sure there was a problem with both that product line and their customer service.

and people complain about Mac prices now... (1)

Scudsucker (17617) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040890)

...just imagine how much it would cost for Apple to ship 100% problem free hardware. Seriously, anytime you ship millions of units you will occasionally have problems, more so if the product is updated every year. Plus, Apple is held to a much higher standard - problems like the iPod Nano screens scratching will get a fair amount of press time, even if the problem affects less than 1% of the units. Whereas with PC's, it takes something on the order of exploding batteries to really get noticed.

Re:What I would like... (1)

Anthracks (532185) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041416)

In my limited sample, the first round of Macbook Pros was pretty junky. We bought about 5 of them for the developers here, and they all get REALLY hot, one randomly had all the fans fail, and another had to have a stick of bad RAM swapped out.

Fast forward about 9 months, and we have a few new developers. The senior devs passed their first-gen Macbook Pros onto the new guys, and got the updated Core 2 Duo models. So far, these have been leaps and bounds better than the initial rev. Quite cool and stable, none has had to be shipped back. Apple definitely seems to have listened to the outcry about the MBP's shoddiness, and has taken care of most if not all of the problems.

Re:What I would like... (1)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041940)

The reliability problems on the MB and MBP are worked out. I bought a new, custom built MBP about 2 weeks ago after carefully watching reader reports on the reliability issues.

I agree that the first ones were shit. We have one here at the office that is absolute shit - and it has had a motherboard replacement and it still is shit.

This is usually the case with new Apple hardware models. I've had problems with buying just after a new model comes out on the following models: PowerMac 7200, PowerBook 5300 cs, PowerMac G4, PowerMac G4 Cube, MacMini Intel Core Duo.

I try to avoid new models for personal purchases, but as a Mac developer, I end up with them at the office because we are trying to make sure our software works well with new models before we start getting support calls.

Re:What I would like... (1)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041960)

...see them get their exisiting line of notebooks to work without problems or failures before they add more to the market.

Currently the reliability of their hardware, including notebooks, is among the best in the industry as evaluated by consumer reports.

I am sad to say, especially with the Mac Book Pros, it seems like they've taken a few steps back with regards to reliability.

Whenever any manufacturer releases a new hardware line they take a few steps back with regard to reliability. Invariably there are some problems with the hardware that don't show up until it is in real world use for a while, and they fix those in later revisions. This is why most purchasing guides always recommend you wait 6 months or so for the rev B of some new machine.

[your anecdotal evidence here]

The number of people in line or what happened with your machine and your mom's machine is not a useful sample set and is pretty much meaningless. We've kept track of hardware failures here (Apple and Lenovo notebooks) for the past few years and Apple is just a bit ahead, which is not unexpected since both are regularly independently reviewed as among the best in the industry. That is a few hundred machines and is still pretty small for a valid sample.

Expand the line, but fix the problems first- not after their in the wild.

In most cases there is not a lot you can do to fix hardware you already shipped. You revise the next manufacturing run with small tweaks. Every company does this. Maybe you stay with Apple because if you try another vendor, better results would simply be a statistical anomaly.

Here We Go Again Apple Fanboys! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18039806)

Put the turtleneck on and follow the well know gameplan.

Dramatic unveiling, slobbering Apple fanboys clapping like mad with their little hearts going piterpater!

The usual Apple lies about performance.

Claims of being cheaper than other x86 OEMs - just don't do those comparisons a week or month later - not fair!

Inflated marketshare claims as the Apple fanboys who have been waiting months or years to upgrade rush out and fork over their cash.

Apple worldwide marketshare continues to flatline at 3 percent...

Whoopsie! (1)

StressGuy (472374) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040482)

Looks like Ballmer's off his meds again....tsk tsk...

Re:Whoopsie! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18040568)

Why would Ballmer be laughing at Apple product unveilings?

The number one most popular subject and thing to do with Apple hardware is to install and run Windows on it...

Re:Whoopsie! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18040798)

You forgot, "...and then laugh at it before rebooting into OS X."

Re:Whoopsie! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18040994)

Looks around at Apple forums, sees the most active and common topic being installing and running Windows. Checks for laughter...

Nope, the only laughter to be heard is from somewhere up in Redmond, WA. Wonder who that could be? Nintendo?

Re:Here We Go Again Apple Fanboys! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18040714)

Meh.

"Put the turtleneck on and follow the well know gameplan.

Dramatic unveiling, slobbering Apple fanboys clapping like mad with their little hearts going piterpater!"

First two lines, not going to comment on that -- you seem to have a lot of repressed anger.

"The usual Apple lies about performance."

Performance difference could be discussed earlier as P4 vs. G4/G5 was hard to compare, but there's this point is moot now as everybody is running Core 2.

"Claims of being cheaper than other x86 OEMs - just don't do those comparisons a week or month later - not fair!"

Nobody EVER claimed Apple to be cheaper. Many are claiming now that the price differences are very small now if you compare apple computers to equal spec Dells for example.

"Inflated marketshare claims as the Apple fanboys who have been waiting months or years to upgrade rush out and fork over their cash.

Apple worldwide marketshare continues to flatline at 3 percent..."

Yeah, all those retails opened is clearly the result of lacking marketshare. And iPods made noone interested in Apple at all. Sure.

Just use want to want to and let Mac users use what they want to.

After 8 hours at a workstation, my back gives out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18039836)

After 8 hours at work at my workstation, even in a ergonomic chair my back gives out, and the only way I can stay wired or online or get any work done is use a handheld while laying down flat on my back. I currently have a Sony Mylo, but need more functionality like VNC. I'm considering buying a windows-based cellphone with a keyboard just so I can use remote desktop from bed if I am bedridden and need to get work done... an apple handheld computer would be boss!

Funny (4, Interesting)

wiredlogic (135348) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039926)

It's funny that compared to todays ridicululously oversized and overweight notebooks a computer the size of the PowerBook 2400 is now considered a "sub-notebook". I would consider a sub-notebook to be something like a classic Libretto or a Fujitsu P1610. Back when the 2400 was current a 10.4" screen was considered large.

Re:Funny (1)

crimson30 (172250) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040244)

Ditto. I'd buy it in a heartbeat if it had a Lifebook P2120 form factor. (Down with touchpads!!)

Re:Funny (1)

zlogic (892404) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040492)

Perhaps because as the screen gets smaller (and the battery also gets smaller requiring an underpowered CPU), ordinary GUIs don't work? You'll either end up seeing tiny buttons or losing screen estate. And for 3-4" screens we have Windows Mobile and other operating systems that are optimized for low-power small-screen devices.

Scaling OS X down (1)

rueger (210566) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039932)

The one feeling that I've always had with my 12" G4 Powerbook is that OS X just doesn't work on that smaller screen. It always feels like OS X was designed for 15" or 17" screens, and everything takes up more real estate that would be desirable on the 12".

Don't know why Apple couldn't tweak the OS to make it more usable on the smaller computer.

Re:Scaling OS X down (5, Insightful)

necro81 (917438) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040158)

The next release of OS X will have resolution independence. It's been just beneath the surface for a few releases now. Resolution independence allows text, icons, and everything else to be scaled to look "right" on high-resolution, small scale screens, or on normal resolution, ultra-large screens.

Some [appleinsider.com] links [apple.com] about [wikipedia.org] this [digg.com] .

Re:Scaling OS X down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18040178)

The one feeling that I've always had with my 12" G4 Powerbook is that OS X just doesn't work on that smaller screen

Actually I don't think the issue is the smaller screen, it's the lack of resolution. OSX on a 21" screen running at 800x600 would suck. Maybe the relatively high pixel density of the iphone points to having a smaller but still high resolution screen for the subnote. A 10" 1440x960 screen would be muy kewl (not for the sight impaired though).

Re:Scaling OS X down (3, Interesting)

fermion (181285) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041298)

Mac OS was originally designed for a very small screen. The OS itself still works best, in my opinion, on a small screen. I find that I prefer X Windows on my larger screen.

What does appear to be true is the Apple application make more liberal use of space,assuming a big screen. For instance iMovie wastes an enormous amount of space. Itunes is not so bad, but the borders are in some contexts quite large. Safari is the exception, but most web pages now are exersises in the frivolous use of screen real estate.

I would think the OS itself could be put back on an 640X480 screen with few changes. However, the current culture of application GUI development has to change. A large matter, really, is hte culture of application development, and the assumption that the user has relatively unlimited resources.

think yourself lucky (1)

CdBee (742846) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041510)

I'm using OSX 10.3 on a clamshell iBook from 5 years ago. Its usable (with dock hidden), the only reason I dont upgrade is that I only use it for mail and surfing, though

iPhone runs OS X (1)

objekt (232270) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041618)

And last I checked, it was pretty well scaled down.

Intel Santa Rosa platform (3, Interesting)

frankie (91710) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039950)

A new mobile Mac with NAND flash is 99.4% likely to be using Santa Rosa [wikipedia.org] aka Centrino Pro. The chipset isn't exclusive to subnotebooks, so if this rumor turns out true then the larger MacBooks will get bumped up as well (90% likely, but Lord Steve is of course a capricious diety).

Instead of being on the bleeding edge..... (1)

8127972 (73495) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039966)

.... What about having a fully functional subnotebook like this Fujitsu:

http://store.shopfujitsu.com/ca/EcomCA/buildseries bean.do?series=P7120 [shopfujitsu.com]

Plus by using off the shelf stuff in it, they lower the cost. Works for me.

Re:Instead of being on the bleeding edge..... (1)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040084)

I had one of those Sony Vaio Picturebooks a while ago.
Came with WinME which I put Win2K in it's place.
It also worked with RH7.2 but not Mandrake.

Great little fully functional notebook.

Apple: do UMPC or PepperPad right (1)

hirschma (187820) | more than 7 years ago | (#18039972)

Not kidding when I say this...

1. Apple needs to identify all the shortcomings of UMPC [umpc.com] or the PepperPad [pepper.com]

2. Infuse Appley goodness into a perfected formfactor, and sell it,

3. And profit.

I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

Re:Apple: do UMPC or PepperPad right (1)

FuturePastNow (836765) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041880)

The shortcoming is the interface. Without a normal size keyboard, normal people can't type (I'm a writer, I am NOT using my thumbs and a tiny onscreen keyboard to type). That leaves touch, voice, and handwriting, and the latter two are still unacceptably poor quality for widespread use. I'm sure Apple could make an 8" multitouch display, but that doesn't solve the problem of how to write a letter.

ma8e (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18040008)

I would be all for it! (1)

spotdog14 (877656) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040048)

I am looking for something to replace my 12 inch Asus notebook. Im looking to either go 11.1 widescreen or 13.3 widescreen. And the largest selling point for me for a MAC is a sweet ass back lit keyboard! My friend as a 17inch one (im not very mac knowledgeable)and the back lit keyboard is so very very nice, and the slot loading optical drive...mmmmm.....

Re:I would be all for it! (1)

Grinin (1050028) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040420)

I would even love the complete opposite... How bout an uber-sized laptop that you can barely care, so unportable its inconvenient, but a huge High Def monitor that will blind anyone walking remotely close to it?? With the new Intel Terraflop chip in that sucker. Now that would be nice! :D

Nowhere to go. (5, Interesting)

Ralph Spoilsport (673134) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040052)

They HAD a very small and wonderful little laptop - I'm using one right now - a 12" G4 iBook.

The differences between the MacBook and MacBook Pro are very few and certainly not worth the $. The MacBook has drifted upward in abilities, and they stopped making the 12" machine - hence, there is nowhere for them to go. They have to re-invent what they've abandoned. As TFA says, three once was a small and venerable machine many years ago, and the 12" G4 iBook was the last of that "inertia".

Now their strategy has abandoned low end small machines. Ooops. So now we'll see one. This comes as no surprise. They have nowhere to go. Frankly, I am looking forward to this, because my G4 iBook is getting a bit long in the tooth...

RS

Re:Nowhere to go. (5, Insightful)

rwyoder (759998) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040696)

They HAD a very small and wonderful little laptop - I'm using one right now - a 12" G4 iBook.
So did I, and I recently sold it for 40% of what I paid for it (3.5 yrs ago), and bought a 13.3" MacBook. Remember that the MacBook has a 16:10 screen vs the 4:3 screen of the iBook. That is why the MacBook is *thinner* and *shorter* front-to-back. The only dimension that is a little larger is the width. And I now have: faster 64-bit CPU, 3x RAM, GigE, Toslink audio in/out, 802.11a/b/g/n, built-in iSight, Bluetooth, higher-resolution internal LCD, external video resolution greater than internal (including 1920x1200 & 1920x1080), external video that does not need to mirror internal screen, DVD-burner. There is *nothing* I miss from the old iBook

Re:Nowhere to go. (1)

SilentChris (452960) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041402)

The differences between the MacBook and MacBook Pro are very few and certainly not worth the $.


Fwa? When I was purchasing my first Mac in years I did a comparison between the two. At this point I wouldn't touch the MacBook with a 10-foot pole.

The MacBook Pro has:

* Faster processors.
* Larger screens at better resolutions.
* Faster RAM. Support for more RAM. Better amount of RAM in default configuration.
* Faster bus.
* Option for a faster DVD writer.
* Non-crappy onboard graphics.
* More ports, more options.
* A better design (in my opinion -- things like the lighted keyboard are surprisingly useful).

If you're a college kid with empty pockets I'm sure the MacBook is fine. If you want to do real work, you need a MacBook Pro.

Re:Nowhere to go. (1)

fotbr (855184) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041978)

You're debating with someone who likes their iBook, not a powerbook owner. If the iBook was good enough for them, then a macbook probably will be too.

Re:Nowhere to go. (0, Troll)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18042002)

If you want real work, you want a machine other than the MBP. It doesn't have a number pad, which is why I got a compaq instead (nw9440). It also has ATI graphics, which suck ass if you want to run anything other than OSX, while this compaq has nVidia QuadroFX. Oh yeah, and this laptop has three buttons instead of one. I would forgive the lack of a number pad in favor of the backlight but I cannot forgive the lack of three buttons. Or even two.

Strechable Laptointrops (3, Insightful)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040318)

I'd love to see Apple sell a notebook that's only 12"x8"x1" that flips open to reveal a fullsize keyboard and a wide screen at 1200x800 for immediate use. Then rotates the screen on its bottom right corner, then stretching out a "rollable" display across to a 16" or 24" wide by 12" high screen at 16-2400x1200.

You know what device I'd like? (1)

KillerBob (217953) | more than 7 years ago | (#18040348)

I'd like a small, portable system with a decent battery life. My existing laptop lasts 3 hours, and while I know it's not the best that's out there, it's pretty good. What I want is something I can use in conjunction with the laptop, which is really more of a desktop replacement than a lappy.

Here's a short list of some of the features I'd like to see:
-Reasonably high DPI screen. Doesn't have to be super-big, maybe 12" should be enough, but it's got to have a respectable resolution.
-A backlight that you can actually turn off.
-No internal moving parts. It should have an external hard drive you can use for the main OS (docking station?), but also have an internal micro-os which can run word processing and web surfing capabilities without needing the hard drive. It should include a reasonably sized internal flash drive to store my documents on when I'm using it in this mode. This pared down mode does *not* need e-mail, instant messenging, or any games. It just has to be able to load up webmail, the occasional websites, and give a virtual typewriter I can take notes during class/meetings with. It doesn't even need sound.
-It doesn't have to be a very powerful processor or have tons of RAM. I am not envisioning this as a desktop replacement, though with a docked hard drive/cd burner there's no reason it can't be a workstation replacement. A geode with 64MB of RAM should be more than enough for the kind of thing I'm thinking about.
-A reasonably long battery life. With no moving parts and low-power processor/memory/graphics, coupled with the micro-os I describe above, there is no reason a device that weighs less than 3lbs couldn't be designed to have a battery life exceeding 12 hours. It could also be instant-on, instant-off, like an appliance, when running without the docked OS-containing hard drive.

I understand that this isn't really what this article is about. ultra-portable laptops are all well and good. But they all have the same shortcoming, in my experience: the battery life just isn't long enough. Good luck getting through more than a 3h meeting or lecture with most laptops. What happens when you have more than one? You either find a plug, or you do without.

You are describing a Psion Series 5 (2007-edition) (1)

KlaymenDK (713149) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041622)

If all the games you ever play are online flash type games and minesweeper, you don't need a laptop -- you just need a *proper* PDA. I've seen this so many times these last few years, I've come to think I should try and bring Psion back to life.

Take a Psion Series 5, keep its physical layout, but update it with the modern advances in display resolution, battery life, storage, and network connectivity. You'd have an on-the-go workstation (that does not need to be a mere extension of a real computer) capable of weeks of light (or days of heavy) usage, with no moving parts except for a keyboard you can actually touch type on. And it would still be *pocketable*.

Please, Steve. Give me a touchscreen. (4, Interesting)

peacefinder (469349) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041050)

If Apple makes a 10" ultraportable with a touchscreen, I'll buy one. If it's good, I'll buy 4 within a year. If it's really good, I'll buy 12 within two years. (For my company, of course.)

Seriously. I love the Fujitsu Lifebook p-series, but I'd be happier if I could use OSX on something similar.

(Unless Wyse or Neoware get their gorram act together and produce a linux-based touchscreen notebook thin client first, anyway. Get on it, people!)

I'd buy a new 15" MBP today... (1)

rthille (8526) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041114)


If I could get one with the WUXGA (1920x1200) resolution I can get on a thinkpad.

Hello... Apple? (2, Interesting)

JimDaGeek (983925) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041146)

In the last 4 months I have bought an Intel Macbook for about $1,100 USD and an Intel iMac for about $1,300 USD. How about instead of this dumb little laptop, you give _paying_ customers like me a _real_ mid-tower option that doesn't cost more than $1,200 or so? I love your hardware and OS X is very nice. Being Intel based lets me boot WinXP and Linux, which I like very much.

I have always built my own PC systems for a lot less then what I paid you. Please give me, a paying customer, an affordable mid-tower that I can upgrade the graphics card, etc. While I really like my 17" iMac, I hate not being able to upgrade my video card to something better. If the available computers from Apple does not change, I will not be buying from you again. I will stick to a regular, home-built PC (or even one bought from Dell) and just use WinXP and Linux on it. OS X did not give me enough incentive to give up my options to upgrade. While I think OS X is very nice, it is certainly not that much better as a GUI than Linux/WinXP to give up my options to be able to upgrade the computers I have bought from you.

Steve, if you are listening, give your customers an upgradeable Intel-based mid-tower please.

Before all the mac-heads start screaming about the Mac Pro, please spare me. It is way over priced for most needs. I am a computer programmer and I have always needed better hardware, however I have _never_ spent as much on a Mac Pro for a PC I have built or bought, ever. The Mac Pro seems to be more high-end for graphics stuff, which I do not do.

Again, I have spent more than $3,000 USD in the past 4 months or so on Apple stuff. I will never do it again, unless I can get an _affordable_ and upgradable mid-tower from Apple. The two Intel Macs I have will work for me for the next 1 1/2 years - 2 years or so. However, after that, if Apple doesn't offer a consumer affordable, upgradeable mid-tower, they just lost a customer.

P.S. I know many other programmers that bought your products over the last year or so that feel the same as me. The ball is in your court Apple. You can go back to being a niche product for graphics and audio dudes or you can really give MS some kicking competition. Just listen to your customers for once and give us an upgradeable mid-tower at an affordable price.

Re:Hello... Apple? (-1, Flamebait)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041386)

They are affordable, just not to you.
Apple makes high end hardware. Your cheap, so Suck it.

Re:Hello... Apple? (-1, Flamebait)

JimDaGeek (983925) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041882)

Awww, did some one say something you don't like about your boyfriend Stevie? So sorry. It has nothing to do with can I afford them or not. I can, thank you. However, it comes down to are they _worth_ the price Apple charges. IMO, hell no. Apple goes from the iMac to the Mac Pro. That leaves out a huge cost gap for many customers.

The Mac Pro just costs too much for what most prosumers would want. I wold love something better than the iMac I _bought_ and something less than the higher-end Mac Pro. Apple just doesn't offer that.

Sorry if that makes you made. I am sure Stevie will only spank you two times. Though I bet you would like Stevie to spank you more, wouldn't you?

As I said in my earlier post, I have spent more than $3,000 on Apple stuff in the last 4 months. Why do you Apple fan-girls get your panties all wet if someone says a negative about Apple?

Re:Hello... Apple? (1)

NC-17 (411446) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041922)

I agree.

The only solution Apple provides in the desktop arena that doesn't have a display built-in that isn't the pro is... the mac mini. Which isn't (supposed to be) upgradeable, and is really just a bunch of laptop parts anyway.

There really should be something in the middle. Something that's not Pro or Mini. How about just a Mac?

Re:Hello... Apple? (1)

idlemind (760102) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041962)

People complain about variety in apple systems but I think the real problem is that OSX is not available on non-apple hardware. This is the complaint I rarely see in Apple discussions. This leads me to believe that Apple is far more about an image than it is about substance.

Why not buy a used tower? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18041994)

Dude, I see your point but have you looked at buying a used tower? Old Macs last a lot longer and run current OSes far better than their Windows counterparts. I'm writing this on a G4 tower running OS 10.3.9. You could get a machine like this from PowerMax for three or four hundred bucks. Go on Google, look around a bit.
Used Macs are reliable, upgradeable, and very cheap.

Re:Why not buy a used tower? (1)

JimDaGeek (983925) | more than 7 years ago | (#18042106)

$400??? That is a pretty nice deal. Thanks. The only problem I have is, how speedy is the G4? My brother-in-law is a pro photographer and has a G5 tower and always says how my 17" 2.0 GHz Intel iMac is much faster. If I spend money on a tower, I want some modern speed, I don't need top-of-the-line processors, but I don't want to feel like I am running a 500 MHz P III.

apple needs a $1000-$1500 laptop with a real video (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041166)

As haveing to pay $2000 just to get is too much when other laptop have them in the $1000 and up rage.
The mac book black should of had one.

Well Duh! (1)

Duncan3 (10537) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041246)

It's called an iPhone, they already announced the product, it does all the stuff I do on my 12" iBook, only thanks to AT&T noone can afford it.

Apple must be cooking up a AT&T-free version.

Not Needed (1)

JPMaximilian (948958) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041472)

I'm still using my Netwon and waving it at Steve during the keynotes, why don't they just start making the Newton again? They could re-market it as the granny-smith.

If you assume connectivity (1)

blamanj (253811) | more than 7 years ago | (#18041488)

then you can save a lot. What I'd like to see is a WiFi enabled, small, very light weight system. With access to Google Docs & Spreadsheets, my documents are online so I don't need a lot of disk space, so dump the hard drive. Same for email. I'll dock it with my main computer to download media, so I don't need an optical drive. Maybe they'll even enable easy remote disk sharing with something like sshfs.

Weight is key, though. On a business trip, I can live with carrying a laptop. With everyday travels, it's too much. Give me something around the form factor of the Newton at about half the weight, say 8 oz max.

Pocket sized, with keyboard, please. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18041914)

I hope this is NOT a tablet - I want a keyboard. And I hope it fits in my pocket. Think of a Sharp Zaurus C3200 form factor, but running MacOS X.
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