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iTunes Uncovers Musical Hoax

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the man-who-mistook-his-wife-for-a-Hatto dept.

Music 311

holy_calamity writes "The reliance by iTunes on the CDDB has burst open a musical fraud in the usually staid world of classical piano. Albums by the much vaunted British pianist Joyce Hatto, who died in June 2006, are identified by the iTunes player as belonging to other performers. A more scientific analysis by an audio remastering firm has found that none of Hatto's works appear to be hers. Her husband, who produced all her albums, says he 'cannot explain' the similarities."

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What is that? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086428)

That is the sound of the world's smallest violin playing.

Re:What is that? (5, Funny)

madsheep (984404) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087084)

Unfortunately you tried to pass that violin playing as being original. CDDB has identified your music as being from Giovanni Battista Viotti. Nice try.

Acronyms (0, Troll)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086444)

"The reliance by iTunes on the CDDB"

Hint: In summaries, you should generally state what an acronym stands for, unless it is well understood by the vast majority of the intended audience. When in doubt, spell it out.

Re:Acronyms (1, Informative)

gQuigs (913879) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086486)

And you didn't correct it for the masses...

Compact Disc Database
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDDB [wikipedia.org]

Re:Acronyms (1)

danpsmith (922127) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086498)

Compact Disc Database, there that was hard wasn't it?

It's the thing you use to tag your music.

You missed the "B" (0)

encoderer (1060616) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087126)

Compact Disk Database, Bitch

Re:You missed the "B" (1)

beckerist (985855) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087560)

LMAO! Well the joke above certainly can't be considered plagarized... [google.com]

Re:Acronyms (5, Funny)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086500)

...this is /.

The majority understand what CDDB is...if nothing else, you should at least be able to figure out what it STANDS for. Just to help you out, I'll break it down for you:

CD. DB.

Need further assistance?

Re:Acronyms (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086706)

you should at least be able to figure out what it STANDS for

Yeah? But what does "STANDS" mean? :-p

Re:Acronyms (4, Funny)

snarlydwarf (532865) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086910)

STANDS: Some Theoretical Acronym Not Described Sufficiently?

TWAIN (1)

Dareth (47614) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087678)

Thank God, for a second I thought it was just another Tool Without An Interesting Name.

Re:Acronyms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086502)

I got it *shrug* CD Data Base, how your computer knows what cd you're playing.

Re:Acronyms (1)

LohanChien (1052596) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086504)

It is spelled out in the article...of course we all know that it is a mistake to assume a slashdotter would RTFA.... :)

More Acronyms (5, Funny)

MrSquishy (916581) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086950)

How are we supposed to RTFA when we dont know what "RTFA" stands for?

Re:More Acronyms (1)

LohanChien (1052596) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087082)

Oh Geez! Those freakin Acronyms are everywhere!

Re:Acronyms (1, Informative)

Thuktun (221615) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086550)

Hint: In summaries, you should generally state what an acronym stands for, unless it is well understood by the vast majority of the intended audience. When in doubt, spell it out.
Or provide a link. [wikipedia.org] This is hypertext, for pity's sake.

Re:Acronyms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086850)

And WTF is iTunes? It isn't even a word!

The cum swallowers told you off (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18087008)

If you don't know all the geek acronyms, you're not part of the IN crowd. Better just fuck off then.

--

LINUX: Linux Is Not UniX

They may be .... (5, Funny)

ehaggis (879721) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086482)

...Hayden other recordings. I say, Bach to the source to find out what is going on! I won't be Chopin at I-Tunes anymore.

Re:They may be .... (5, Funny)

WidescreenFreak (830043) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086688)

Urgh! Too many classical composer puns for anyone to Handel. We ought to throw any classical pun abusers into jail with one person Percell until they Telemann (and women) that they're sorry.

Okay, it wasn't that great, but you already took the obvious ones. It was very Strauss-ful coming up with new ones.

Re:They may be .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086792)

Something about Copland, which starred Sylvester Stallone...

Re:They may be .... (5, Funny)

heroofhyr (777687) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086802)

Okay, it wasn't that great, but you already took the obvious ones. It was very Strauss-ful coming up with new ones.
Nonsense. If you try hard you can come up with a pretty big Liszt. Now get Bizet.

Re:They may be .... (5, Funny)

dpiven (518007) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087626)

I'd chime in with a few, but my musical pun composer is baroquen.

Re:They may be .... (4, Funny)

ettlz (639203) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086806)

Oi! Quit Messiaen about with all those names!

I've been Beethoven the head, those are so bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086852)

heh.

Re:They may be .... (5, Funny)

Golias (176380) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086982)

This Liszt of composer puns is becoming a Verdi tiresome Paine, and causing a lot of Strauss. Ives got a Mahler of a headache now. My nerves are starting to un-Ravel, to be perfectly Franck. Now knock that Schmidt Orff! Have you no Morales???

Re:They may be .... (5, Funny)

sacrilicious (316896) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086720)

They may be Hayden other recordings. I say, Bach to the source to find out what is going on! I won't be Chopin at I-Tunes anymore.

Now just a minuet, don't be hasty.

Re:They may be .... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18087060)

Fugue off!

Re:They may be .... (1)

tktk (540564) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087660)

Ok, stop this or I'll have to give everyone a shot of punicillin.

Re:They may be .... (1)

Hoi Polloi (522990) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087456)

I know one way to get him to produce an original performance. Show him the evidence and I guarantee he'll be playing a different tune!

live performances? (5, Insightful)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086516)

I can see the CDs being rips, but didn't she play publicly? Be kinda hard to fake that :)

As for the husband, either he recorded her playing in a studio, or he didn't. I don't see how you can mistake that and claim "I dunno how this happened."

Basically he's been busted and he's lying to save his ass.

Tom

Re:live performances? (5, Informative)

fistfullast33l (819270) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086600)

From the unsourced Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] :

She stopped playing in public in the 1970s, having never attained much prominence as an artist. The retired critic James Methuen-Campbell heard two of her recitals in London's Wigmore Hall and recalls a pianist with an efficient and careful technique, but with an inability to convey the overall conception of a major work. Her approach, in his opinion, concentrated on detail.

Re:live performances? (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086714)

So basically she had skill but wasn't pro-like, and had to use some micro to uber up some fame?

I'm studying piano now [admitedly I'm still newb-like] but I don't see the point in fraud. I play because I like the sound and the ability to vent feelings [both positive and negative] through the instrument. Faking it would just defeat the purpose of playing in the first place.

Tom

Re:live performances? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086822)

I don't see the point in fraud

1. Produce fraudulent recordings
2. ????
3. Profit!

Re:live performances? (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086858)

She's dead jim! Plus, provided she lived, she could have been outed at any time and lost all of the earnings anyways.

Plus it's just uncool to rip others work for profit. Music, despite the bad rep, isn't easy. Takes a lot of practice and patience to get any good at it, and to just rip someone off, ain't cool.

Tom

Re:live performances? (5, Funny)

gardyloo (512791) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087042)

but didn't she play publicly? Be kinda hard to fake that :)

    Meh. We're slashdotters. How the hell do WE know if a woman is faking something?

Re:live performances? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18087458)

CDDB works by checking the playing time of each track.

dupes of identical compositions are highly plausible and checking every bit on an audio CD and performing a CRC is not.

Re:live performances? (4, Interesting)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087574)

I can see the CDs being rips, but didn't she play publicly? Be kinda hard to fake that :)

Girl, you know it's
Girl, you know it's
Girl, you know it's
Girl, you know it's

Ashlee Simpson can hodown too :)

Bill says (2, Funny)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086530)

I guess that wasn't a Hatto(ri) Hanzo piece after all!

Why iTunes? (5, Insightful)

govtpiggy (978532) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086532)

This isn't specific to iTunes at all. There are lots of players and applications that take advantage of CDDB. The first impression you get from the article is that Apple somehow managed to catch a fraud, while that isn't the truth at all.

Re:Why iTunes? (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086666)

Um, the way I kind of understood the article is that iTunes did, in fact, "catch" it. Or at least help to identify what was going on. So in this case, it IS specific to iTunes. However, CDDB, as anyone reading /. should know is not just used by iTunes. It just happens that it was in this situation.

Re:Why iTunes? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086750)

iTunes didn't catch it, CDDB did.

This is the equivalent of Sherlock Holmes coming to down and solving a previously unsolved crime - and the townspeople congratulating the horse that drew the carriage.

Re:Why iTunes? (5, Informative)

dschuetz (10924) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086906)

iTunes didn't catch it, CDDB did.

Actually, neither iTunes nor CDDB caught it. The person who put the CD in caught it, when he realized that the data CDDB/iTunes returned wasn't for the CD he'd put in, but was close enough in content that he was intrigued enough to do an a/b comparison.

I'm betting a bunch of other people saw the same thing, and either didn't correct it, or said "huh" and just "corrected" the artist's name based on what they thought it was supposed to be, assuming the data in CDDB was wrong.

So kudos to the guy who noticed!

Re:Why iTunes? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086730)

Why? Because the "editors" need to fulfill their daily quota of the word "Apple" on the front page. iForOne Think(TM) that Slashdot is the fraud.

Re:Why iTunes? (4, Informative)

Hijacked Public (999535) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086880)

The impression I took from the article is that there was strong suspicion that her CDs were fakes but no one could determine exactly which recordings from other artists had been used. iTunes, by way of CDDB, pointed the guy from Gramophone in the right direction.


So no, not iTunes directly, but since it is the Windows of music management applications it was in the right place at the right time. Also recall that these are music people and we are geeks. We may know all about CDDB and music players and which bit of software performs which task, but most normals don't know or care. Even if you try to explain it to them they will stare off in the distance, blankly, wishing they were listening to a modified version of Nojima being passed off as Hatto playing Liszt.

Re:Why iTunes? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18087278)

but no one could determine exactly which recordings from other artists had been used.

Doesn't itunes report the track names just like any other CDDB aware application? What does it use CDDB for?

Re:Why iTunes? (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087464)

iTunes also tells you the track information for MP3s that weren't purchased from iTunes. To do this it compares against the CDDB.

Who would've thought... (4, Funny)

danpsmith (922127) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086552)

...that there would be a Milli Vanilli [wikipedia.org] in the classical world.

Re:Who would've thought... (4, Interesting)

Stanistani (808333) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086626)

If there was justice in the world, Ben & Jerry would have made a Milli Vanilli flavor - fudge and Nilla wafers (which contain no vanilla at all).

Re:Who would've thought... (1)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086644)

I seriously think that is one of the best ideas I have ever read on slashdot!

Re:Who would've thought... (1)

GundamFan (848341) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086736)

It is off topic as hell but that does sound like good ice cream.

Now... how do you keep the wafers from disintegrating?

Re:Who would've thought... (1)

Stanistani (808333) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086810)

You flash freeze them, I suppose, and then mechanically merge them with the fudge ice cream at a temperature just above freezing, then rapidly drop the temp of the mixture.

Least, that's how similar stuff is made.

Re:Who would've thought... (3, Funny)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087246)

I'd think a better "Milli Vanilli" pairing with the Nilla wafers would be white chocolate, which contains no actual cocoa solids.

Re:Who would've thought... (1)

abb3w (696381) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087248)

a Milli Vanilli flavor - fudge and Nilla wafers (which contain no vanilla at all).

Perhaps also using a carob bean based fudge?

Re:Who would've thought... (1)

Hoi Polloi (522990) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087516)

They'd never make it because Ben & Jerry's won't use artifical (fake) ingrediants. "Tastes like fudge, sorta"

Why not (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086976)

GWB is trying to imitate Reagan and doing a splendid job.

I'm a classical musician... (2)

rivaldufus (634820) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086566)

and I've never heard of her... but then again, there are a ton of pianists out there.

Sounds like her husband was no stranger to Pro Tools...

No matter how well known a classical musician is, there will not be 1/40th the amount of recording sales that your average pop "artist" generates on a given album. Remember Milli Vanilli?

Re:I'm a classical musician... (1)

Walt Dismal (534799) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086622)

I..loved Milli Vanilli's...Ninth Symphony...must go lie down ... not ...feeling well. Spock! Help me, Spock!

Re:I'm a classical musician... (4, Funny)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086946)

but then again, there are a ton of pianists out there.

Wait... so there are only between 10 and 20 pianists out there?

Re:I'm a classical musician... (2, Funny)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087588)

Metric or imperial pianists?

O RLY (0)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086592)

As yet, all the Hatto recordings they've looked at have been copies. Hatto's husband, who produced and released them, says he cannot explain the similarities.
I'd say he's got a pretty limited imagination. It's pretty obvious where the "similarities" came from.

fr0st pist? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086606)

How convenient! (5, Funny)

Rob T Firefly (844560) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086632)

I love when things like this come out after the guilty party has passed on. Holding up a scam with your very last breath takes dedication, and the mental image of Ms Hatto laughing pleasantly and flipping sweary fingwer gestures from the great beyond comforts me immensely.

Re:How convenient! (1)

jfengel (409917) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087062)

Ms. Hatto is croaked, but her husband (who produced the recordings) is still alive and may be in deep, deep trouble.

Come on now (4, Insightful)

Bullfish (858648) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086676)

Stealing from the dead is a very old tradition. As is having them cast votes, collect pensions et al... No respect for the old ways anymore...

Re:Come on now (1)

iabervon (1971) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087318)

The living stealing from the dead is very traditional. But it's just not right for the dead to steal from the living.

Blind music critics? (5, Insightful)

pherthyl (445706) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086746)

So if her recordings were so masterful, and they were identical to other recordings, then why didn't the critics recognize the similarity for so long?

This confirms my belief that music critics are mostly full of shit. If those recordings were so good, then the artists she copied from were obviously superb. However, one was apparently a very obscure Japanese pianist, so his brilliance wasn't recognized, and since no-one noticed the copy for so long, the others can't have been very prominent either.

Re:Blind music critics? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086870)

"This confirms my belief that music critics are mostly full of shit"

Amen brotha!

I was just sitting here wondering how many douchebags had been at a cocktail party and said something along the lines of, "Hatto's mastery of Rachmaninov is far superior to that of Yefim Bronfman. Aherm Aherm"

Love it.

Re:Blind music critics? (1)

HoldenCaulfield (25660) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086886)

Umm . . . from wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] it sounds like she gained prominence mainly since her mastery of classical seemed to cover such a wide range.

So, to answer your question, I would guess that the original performers did all have brilliant performances, but none gained prominence - sort of like one shot wonders in the classical world. I wouldn't expect anyone to have memorized them, even if they were great performances . . .

Re:Blind music critics? (5, Insightful)

nahdude812 (88157) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086942)

According to the article it's because they made subtle variations to the pieces, including changing the tempo by less than 1% (so they wouldn't sync up), changing the balance (so the center was different), and changing the equalizer (so it sounded like a different piano).

These are people playing the same music, there are only so many things you can do to detect fakes, and I also doubt that anyone was looking for them before now. It'd be like detecting a brightness, contrast, color adjusted, and cropped version of a photo from thousands of photos against the same scene when you had no expectation that there even was a dupe.

Re:Blind music critics? (5, Funny)

gardyloo (512791) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087168)

[...]when you had no expectation that there even was a dupe.

        This is slashdot. We're trained to be alert to those all the time.

Re:Blind music critics? (5, Interesting)

ff123 (514860) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087010)

So if her recordings were so masterful, and they were identical to other recordings, then why didn't the critics recognize the similarity for so long?

This confirms my belief that music critics are mostly full of shit. If those recordings were so good, then the artists she copied from were obviously superb. However, one was apparently a very obscure Japanese pianist, so his brilliance wasn't recognized, and since no-one noticed the copy for so long, the others can't have been very prominent either.


Well, in the case of Minoru Nojima (the "very obscure Japanese pianist,") any critics would not have been wrong in recognizing that the playing was obviously superb, even if they couldn't discern who the actual pianist was. "Nojima Plays Liszt" is a wonderful CD, with a combination of both masterful playing and excellent sound quality. Too bad Nojima is as obscure as he is to the general public -- he just hasn't recorded much. But that just makes it all the more special to me that I got to see him play in a small junior college auditorium just minutes from my house!

Re:Blind music critics? (3, Insightful)

crabpeople (720852) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087406)

Unfortunately no torrent. Destined to remain obscure I guess.

Re:Blind music critics? (2, Interesting)

superpenguin (595439) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087494)

I'll preface this by saying I'm a music grad student, so I'm more than a little conversant with the world of classical music, although I'm a string player, not a pianist.

One of my profs in undergrad (who was a pianist) told me once that good pianists are a dime a dozen. And they're all making recordings. The Pristine Classical website has quite a few possible/probable rip-offs listed, and in most cases they are pianists I've never heard of (of course, I wasn't familiar with Joyce Hatto either). This is not surprising because there are just so many pianists out there, too many to keep track of.

The other factor is that so many classical pieces end up having a few recordings that are the "standard". In other words, they may or may not be miles above everything else, but if you do a survey of music libraries, you'll find the same couple recordings of a given work cropping up a lot more. Of course, this is usually the big names.

The thing that gets me though is the one big name that she did rip off from, that being Ashkenazy. To the average lay-person, he's not one of the big names of piano (partly because he split his time between piano and conducting--he was very fine in both capacities), but any pianist (or music critic) would likely be familiar with him (particularly as an interpreter of Chopin).

There are also a few concertos recorded with Previn conducting the orchestra. The pianist wasn't familiar to me, but if he was playing with Previn, he was no slouch. So yes, the music critics are probably full of it. You'd think somebody would have noticed by now.

Metamusic (5, Funny)

mattpointblank (936343) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086768)

"iTunes Uncovers Musical Hoax"

It's become self-aware!!

check the source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086770)

http://www.concertartistrecordings.com/ [concertart...rdings.com]

at least show your appreciation for the label's practices by visiting them on the web!

The husband should just call it fan fiction... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086796)

Frankly, I blame the RIAA for going after her remixes. Talk about a vendetta. A proper Slashdot comment would rattle on about how these poor folks are suing a dead woman.

Really, the two of them were the biggest fans of the artists whose work they fair-used. They did this as an homage. Yeah. That's the ticket.

this sort of abuse... (4, Insightful)

rivaldufus (634820) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086872)

is simplified by the fact that it's solo piano. Unlike solo string works, intonation is not a distinguishing characteristic for solo piano. And anyway, the musical content is the same for the pieces.

Also, there must be thousands of recordings of the transcendental etudes (I have several in my cd case, alone) spanning probably 100 years or so. Classical musicians often listen to recordings of the piece they're working on to get ideas on interpretation.

Imagine if you had thousands of bands playing the same song, and using the same instrumentation - I'm willing to bet I could copy one of the renditions... change the mp3 info, and no one would notice the duplicate. It's not that amazing of a story, really. I suspect her husband told her that he would touch up her recordings to make them sound better. I doubt she wanted this, but who knows? Anyway, it sounds like a few minutes work on pro tools or some other DAW. Heck, Audacity would suffice for this sort of thing, I would imagine.

Re:this sort of abuse... (4, Funny)

Hijacked Public (999535) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087056)

I think it would be hilarious if Audacity was used to do this rather than Pro Tools or the like.

Re:this sort of abuse... (1)

oblivionboy (181090) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087362)

Pianos yes. Bands no. At least not ones that use anything except strictly classical instruments. Let me explain.

Any band except for say a jazz band, probably has various instruments in it who's timber and other tonal qualities vary quite a bit. Guitars, especially amplified and reverbed have very distinctive and characteristic sounds, many especially chosen by their players to create their own signature sound. Bass guitars have the same characteristics although to a much lesser extent. Throw in all the things beyond that such as distortion, post processing, and various other elements that go into a recording session and most records sound all quite distinctive, especially to those who are familiar with the music (its easy to tell the difference bewteen Guns and Roses and Aerosmith).

Add to this that with a band you are multiplying the permutations of note variations among the various parts, as each player adds their own touch to it.

Pianos on the other hand have a very uniform sound, with a timber which is very similar from piano to piano, especially in the well tuned concert hall grand piano style. I studied quite a bit of music in university (classical and jazz), and I would say that it would be very challenging for me to tell one of these pianos apart from amother, unless it had some distinguising characteristic (the low A flat buzzes for example).

And then add to this that each player is playing more or less some very precisely notated music, probably with a huge history of performance traditions, and you end up with (except for like glenn gould), performances that all sound quite similar as well. Between two players / performances I had in my collection I would be able to tell the difference. Play me twenty, and I might have a harder time.

So I could really see this happening. But a more interesting question would be, is there any way it could be a false positive? .o.

Re:this sort of abuse... (2, Interesting)

widmerpool (162801) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087544)

He apparently invented an orchestra, too.

National Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra

http://www.stereophile.com/news/021907hatto/ [stereophile.com]

PIANOWNED!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086916)

Sorry. I had to. :)

Where have I seen this before? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18086922)

This should have been the quote from her husband:

"It makes me laugh," he said. "The part I don't understand, the dude is trying to act like I went to his house and took it from his computer. I don't know him from a can of paint. I'm 15 years deep. That's how you attack a king? You attack moi? Come on, man. You got to come correct. You the laughing stock. People are like, 'You can't be serious.' "

Re:Where have I seen this before? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18087520)

Sadly, this is probably the wrong demographic for timberlake quotes. I found it quite apt, once I looked it up.

OT (1)

Control Group (105494) | more than 7 years ago | (#18086962)

Best "dept." ever.

Also, the story is pretty funny.

National Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18087104)

What gets me is that some of the recordings were with an orchestra. "The mysterious René Kohler and the National Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra"

How is it that you fake a whole orchestra, make up a conductor and nobody notices???

Apparently nobody cared and the only reason they care now is that it's a scandel.

Something's not right here... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18087118)

Posting anonymously because I already moderated before I thought about this some more:

from the newscientist article: "To identify albums it calculates a 'discid' from the duration of the tracks and then connects to the Compact Disc Database online."

From the scientific analysis: "for ten of the twelve tracks on this CD." "Simon recording has been time-shrunk by 0.02%" and "Nojima time-stretched by 0.975%"

Ok, seems to me that the discid is calculated using ALL of the tracks, and yet not all of the tracks were from the same source - So how did the exact CD she ripped from get ID'd?

Also, the time-stretching should have effected the durations, and generated different IDs. For example, the track she supposedly stole from Nojima: the duration of her track was 3'33", meaning that with 0.975% time-stretching the original must have been 3'38". Assuming digital hashing is involved in creating the discid, this should be more than enough of a difference to create a substantially different id.

I'm not saying that iTunes didn't uncover the difference, and I'm not claiming she didn't fake it, but... I seriously doubt that all the information here about how discid's are calculated/obtained is 100% correct. Anyone know more info about how this works, or how iTunes could still have uncovered the fraud?

Re:Something's not right here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18087236)

Oh yeah, forgot to add -

Never mind that the "scientific analysis" was using compressed mp3's and highly compressed sample downloads off Amazon to do his comparisons. To be truly meaningful, the lab should have purchased all of the CDs involved and done uncompressed raw comparisons.

But that's of less importance than the question I raised originally.

She's in trouble now, the RIAA are after her (4, Funny)

gurps_npc (621217) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087138)

As she appears to have copied and sold music without the proper licenses, the RIAA will be hunting here down. Merely being Dead will not stop the RIAA from making your existence a living hell.

Re:She's in trouble now, the RIAA are after her (2, Funny)

Elvis Parsley (939954) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087310)

I'm reasonably certain that being dead will stop your existence from being a living anything.

Re:She's in trouble now, the RIAA are after her (2, Funny)

Intron (870560) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087580)

Making her what? Ungreatful Dead?

Not that I disbelieve the evidence (2, Interesting)

alissy (1040728) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087148)

but I would have liked to see waveforms of a third performer playing the same piece, just to see what the natural range of variation in classical music is.

I think you mean a *music* hoax (1)

cgrayson (22160) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087312)

Careful with your adjectives there - it's a hoax about music, so it's a "music hoax". The hoax itself doesn't have a melody or harmony, lyrics or refrains. I.e., it's not "musical".

And if it were, it wouldn't have really been performed by Joyce Hatto. ;-)

Google Book Search Library Project (2, Interesting)

sectionboy (930605) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087344)

I am wandering how many "stolen" novels/poems/essays will be uncovered once the Google Library is completed, and who will appear on the blacklist...

Free CDDB (5, Informative)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087380)

The CDDB was coded as a free repository of CD metadata. Collected by thousands of people around the Net on a worldwide, ongoing basis, by giving away the client SW which many programmers embedded into PC/Mac music players. So millions of people were prompted every time they put in an unknown CD to spend a few seconds typing in artist and song names. In exchange (though no input was required), they got most of their CDs labeled without any effort, after the CDDB was filled.

This kind of read/write database population collaboration is now well known, both in blogs and in more sophisticated databases like Wikipedia. But in the late 1990s it was revolutionary.

Then the CDDB server owners sold out to Gracenote. Gracenote required a login to access the data, which login they supplied only to licensed users. Gracenote first tried to sell CD players integrated with the CDDB, but then found more success in licensing access to iTunes and other online music distributors.

But neither Gracenote nor the CDDB programmers had produced the profitable data. The people who had were locked out. So some new programmers made a new version with the identical API and DB structure, the FreeDB [freedb.org] , then datamined the CDDB to populate it. The FreeDB and its contents are GPL, so they cannot be "taken proprietary" (stolen) again. The data is free again, as is the life of this pioneering colalborative project.

If you are generating music metadata, consider submitting it to the FreeDB [freedb.org] . And try to use the FreeDB, rather than the privateer CDDB, to support you applications. And send money to the FreeDB operators whenever you can, especially if you use it.

Unfortunately, FreeDB sucks (1)

joe_n_bloe (244407) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087644)

FreeDB is a lesson in misspelling, inconsistency, and duplication.

Glenn Gould is still safe (2, Insightful)

joe_n_bloe (244407) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087564)

Not much chance getting away with calling a Glenn Gould recording your own.

BBC radio4 has a streaming interview (2, Informative)

RandomWordGenerator (813207) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087608)

Streaming interview : Mark Lawson interviews a journalist from Gramaphone magazine (one of Joyce Hatto's champions) and talks about the issue in general, with semi-amusing lack of tech-spertise. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/networks/radio4/aod .shtml?radio4/frontrow_mon# [bbc.co.uk]

Collisions happen (2)

fishbowl (7759) | more than 7 years ago | (#18087666)

I have, twice, seen CD's of entirely my own work, match the checksums of others when queried via CDDB.
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