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412 comments

Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (5, Insightful)

dada21 (163177) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126884)

I can't begin to count how often in the past people cheered about a product that ended up either vaporware or less-than-desired. I also can't begin to count on the opposite happening: a non-starter product release that turned out to be better than expected. I've been a PDA user since the Apple Newton days, and I've been a PDA Phone user since pre-Blackberry days (although I never had a Blackberry, I prefer full PDAs). I currently use an HTC Trinity P3600 and love it -- GPS, EDGE/3G, 2GB storage card, WiFi, and more. It runs the horrid Windows Mobile 5 but I absolutely love the phone, and combined with Google Maps online + GPS, it replaced 3 devices that I had tethered with me constantly.

The iPhone looks terrible to me for a variety of reasons -- locked application support, AT&T (love my T-Mobile), restrictive networking (GPRS and not EDGE/3G?), etc. But the iPhone will probably win in version 2 because of what has made Apple a powerhouse -- it's the interface, stupid. My iPod is really a great device (even though I don't use it since I have EDGE-radio streamed from my home media PC). I loved the iPod for the interface. I'm glad my wife, sister, father, mother and brother all have iPods -- I have to do absolutely NO work to keep them happy.

My #1 complaint about ALL PDAs and ALL phones has always been the interface. It seems that techies designed a horrid interface around features, rather than integrating everything into a smooth GUI. Apple's interface alone will sell millions, and people will pay the price.

One thing that people seem to forget time and again is that you can not judge tomorrow's prices on yesterday's prices. Inflation [unanimocracy.com] has destroyed the US dollar (down 50% in 5 years), so prices double of what we paid 5 years ago can be considered "par" with the fall in value of the dollar. I think $500 is a reasonable price for all of what the iPhone offers -- even though it is merely version 1.0. By the time the iPhone is actually released, who knows how much inflation has caused wages to "rise" and incomes to "soar." With the Democrats taking over, I don't doubt that inflation will get worse than even the high-spending Republicans forced the issue.

Don't look at prices as a constant. In terms of US dollars, we're almost all wealthier in the number of dollars we earn -- even though we are poorer in terms of what those dollars can buy us.

Sidenote: Apple is also wise to set this price point. It is just pricey-enough-sounding to make the device a little more elitist than the $49 Razr that every 12 year old seems to have. Getting the superstars and Paris-Hilton-models using their phone will make everyone want one, and as sales go up, prices tend to go down. Apple's biggest problem in the short run will be supply -- I guarantee they won't have enough to keep up with demand, even at $500.

I paid $650 for my HTC Trinity P3600, and if Apple can integrate a GPS and EDGE/3G, I'd pay $1000 for it just on the interface alone. Give it a few weeks after release, and I think people's opinions of the device will change. They'll see what it can do for them (especially business folks, teenagers with money, and young adults with new credit cards), and they'll jump at the chance to have one early for $500.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (-1, Flamebait)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126944)

This post reads like you're rubbing everyone's face in the fact that by spamming Slashdot with links to your lame anarcho-capitalist nonsense, you make enough money to buy gadgetry. We get it already.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18126982)

...you make enough money to buy gadgetry. We get it already.

Ahhh, but his post also says a lot about him. He was using Newtons back in the day, which means his daddy made enough money to buy gadgets for him, too...

Your personal attack is way off-base (4, Insightful)

DavidinAla (639952) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127094)

Why are you attacking the poster? He's making cogent points in a very clear way. If you don't agree with hm, fine, but your personal attack is off-base and stupid. You're just revealing that you're too shallow to use reason to oppose what you obviously disagree with. You're making his argument look even stronger by comparison.

David

Re:Your personal attack is way off-base (-1, Flamebait)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127130)

Look at his posting history. He's got a modus operandi of making FPs in order to attract people to his website and make nice cash. The Slashdot community doesn't much care for commenting for profit, just look at how people who make a simple referral-link to Amazon are treated here. His arguments about economics are all smoke and mirrors, he's admitted before that he doesn't have much in the way of academic qualifications. I won't argue economics with him because I am not a trained economist, and he similarly should keep silent about fields beyond his capabilities.

Re:Your personal attack is way off-base (2, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127168)

The Slashdot community doesn't much care for ...people like you, bitching about other posters like this.

-jcr

Re:Your personal attack is way off-base (4, Insightful)

DavidinAla (639952) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127210)

The fact that a poster is consistent about making an argument you disagree with does not make it spam. The fact that he doesn't have academic qualifications in an area doesn't necessarily make him wrong. You clearly just don't like the guy and don't agree with him, so you don't want him expressing his views. What he said here was completely appropriate for the context. It's your irrational attack on him that is out of place. The fact that you're willing to say that someone shouldn't discuss things simply because you don't approve of his expertise says more about you than it does about him. You seem to be letting your emotions and disagreement with the poster get in the way of your ability to reason, at least in this case.

David

Re:Your personal attack is way off-base (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127240)

The fact that his actions and motives are in direct opposition to what he repeatedly espouses does make him a very big hypocrite, though.

Re:Your personal attack is way off-base (-1, Troll)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127276)

The fact that a poster is consistent about making an argument you disagree with does not make it spam

If you check his posting history, you'll find that accusations of spam have followed him for months now from all kinds of posters here.

The fact that you're willing to say that someone shouldn't discuss things simply because you don't approve of his expertise says more about you than it does about him.

Yes, it says that I recognize that people talking out of their ass isn't a nice thing.

You seem to be letting your emotions and disagreement with the poster get in the way of your ability to reason, at least in this case.

Slashdot isn't a place for "reasoning" about economics. That's for trained economists in appropriate academic settings. For someone with a UID slightly lower than mine, you strangely don't seem to recognize what /. is for here.

Re:Your personal attack is way off-base (0, Flamebait)

DavidinAla (639952) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127364)

I was trying to give you credit for just letting your emotions get in the way of your ability to reason, but I see I've overestimated you. You're clearly a bigot who doesn't think other people are entitled to certain beliefs which you don't approve of. You're so blind with hatred for this guy and his views that you can't see that his economic arguments are relevant to what he's saying in this case. And in case nobody has mentioned this before, you're not the arbiter of what is acceptable to discuss in a Slashdot thread.

David

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (5, Insightful)

garcia (6573) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126972)

I paid $650 for my HTC Trinity P3600, and if Apple can integrate a GPS and EDGE/3G, I'd pay $1000 for it just on the interface alone. Give it a few weeks after release, and I think people's opinions of the device will change. They'll see what it can do for them (especially business folks, teenagers with money, and young adults with new credit cards), and they'll jump at the chance to have one early for $500.

There are a few things that I don't like about the device that are the reasons why I will not be purchasing one:

1. It's locked in to the worst wireless provider that is out there. Cingluar/AT&T. This may be a great idea for Apple and Cingular/AT&T but it's terrible for everyone that has to switch to them to use this device.

2. There is no tactile QWERTY keyboard as part of the device. dada, as a previous Hiptop user and now with the P3600, you have to know how great a real keyboard is compared to a touchscreen based one. I could NOT get along by tapping the screen -- it's just not the same and touch typing would become extremely difficult.

3. The price is ASTRONOMICAL especially if you're getting new service and paying out the ass to drop your current contract with a better wireless company to switch. The research is right as $299 is more reasonable than $500+ even with disposable income and the desire for a great wireless device, it's not worth that much to me when I'm locked in to one vendor for at least two years.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (4, Informative)

PFI_Optix (936301) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127112)

I've been a Cingular user for years, and am quite happy with them. In fact, my only complaint is that they apparently are going to become AT&T Wireless. I have a bad history with AT&T Wireless and laughed when they were absorbed by Cingular. What really chafes me is that SBC bought AT&T, yet they're the ones who gave up the name.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127194)

The AT&T name, for all AT&T's faults, is dramatically more recognizable than SBC. That's the long and short of it.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (4, Insightful)

The One and Only (691315) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127186)

The price is ASTRONOMICAL especially if you're getting new service and paying out the ass to drop your current contract with a better wireless company to switch. The research is right as $299 is more reasonable than $500+ even with disposable income and the desire for a great wireless device, it's not worth that much to me when I'm locked in to one vendor for at least two years.

This is what Apple always does. This is how the market works. They invent something, sell it at a high price in order to pay for development and pick up the part of the market willing to pay that price, and lower the price later. You'll get your $300 iPhone soon enough.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (4, Insightful)

MrPerfekt (414248) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127282)

There are a few things that I don't like about the device that are the reasons why I will not be purchasing one:

1. It's locked in to the worst wireless provider that is out there. Cingluar/AT&T. This may be a great idea for Apple and Cingular/AT&T but it's terrible for everyone that has to switch to them to use this device.


You say tomato, I say tomat... well, you get the point. Everybody has their own opinion, experiences, and whatnot with cell phone providers. In short, they all suck. I believe that Verizon and Sprint are the worst out there. Locking everyone in to their phones and only allowing data transfers (pictures, ringtones and such) through their proprietary services. GSM has always been about embracing more open standards. I can buy most any "unlocked" phone from eBay and use it by simply swapping SIMs. This alone makes a GSM provider miles better than a CDMA provider.

2. There is no tactile QWERTY keyboard as part of the device. dada, as a previous Hiptop user and now with the P3600, you have to know how great a real keyboard is compared to a touchscreen based one. I could NOT get along by tapping the screen -- it's just not the same and touch typing would become extremely difficult.

I'm the exact opposite. I -hate- those tiny key keyboards that feel like you're going to split your fingernails on trying to type on them. They're mostly worthless since they take up most of the phone (which would be large even without them). I'll pass on that.

3. The price is ASTRONOMICAL especially if you're getting new service and paying out the ass to drop your current contract with a better wireless company to switch. The research is right as $299 is more reasonable than $500+ even with disposable income and the desire for a great wireless device, it's not worth that much to me when I'm locked in to one vendor for at least two years.

I've paid more than that for a phone more than once. You can't tell me that $200 is a large barrier if you're serious about considering the phone to begin with. Sure, cheaper is better and knowing Apple it will get cheaper in the future. I think it's perfectly reasonable and smart to control demand by setting the initial price high and make money off of people that are dying to get the device (regardless of reason, being trendy or simply because it's actually useful). I have no problem paying that for a device like this because I've paid it before for devices that weren't even 20% as good.

Of course, all this remains to be seen. The iPhone could very well suck due to restrictive application policies and physical product glitches. I reserve judgement on that until I get my hands on one though.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (1)

garcia (6573) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127588)

I'm the exact opposite. I -hate- those tiny key keyboards that feel like you're going to split your fingernails on trying to type on them. They're mostly worthless since they take up most of the phone (which would be large even without them). I'll pass on that.

You've never used it the correct way and you've obviously never used one that was really designed well. It's difficult to split your fingernails when you're typing w/the flat side of your thumb. I can type almost as fast (using some quick software shortcuts) as I do on the full sized QWERTY (w fills in "with", u fills in "you", etc) and I'm by no means a small guy. My hands and fingers are large and I find the Hiptop's keyboard quite cozy.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127366)

"1. It's locked in to the worst wireless provider that is out there. Cingluar/AT&T. This may be a great idea for Apple and Cingular/AT&T but it's terrible for everyone that has to switch to them to use this device."

What is wrong with Cingular? I've always been with Sprint...been happy with them, but, I've been asking friends that have Cingular, and they've been quite happy with it. So far, most all I've asked only use it for voice...I use my Sprint phone as a modem for occasional laptop usage...or for sending pics, picture mail/txt (free vs pay for SMS), or some web browsing when bored in the bar waiting for friends...and the internet connectivity is great. But, I've not met anyone that is sour on Cingular...can you or anyone else tell me what is worst on their system than say..SprintPCS?

"There is no tactile QWERTY keyboard as part of the device."

Not a big deal to me..I only discovered txt messaging and the T9 stuff a year or so ago. While I can fly on a regular sized keyboard...I have to look at my keys on the phone. I have the samsung blade, so no real key tactile feeling there..and I guess I'm getting old enough to have to watch the keys and fingers on a small device. :-)

"The price is ASTRONOMICAL"

Depends on how much disposable cash you have I suppose. In the case of this product, and IMHO many Apple products, you get what you pay for. I don't see anything else out there with this type of funcionality and 'cool' factor. I don't mean what other people may think is cool, but, what actually appeals to ME as a fun toy/gadget.

My contract with Sprint is up next Jan..so, I'll have a while to see how the iPhone does when it comes out, and maybe even be closer to purchasing when version 2 comes out...but, considering all things on the market now...I'll be buying one as soon as I'm out of my current contract. My current phone is getting worn out...and I'll be ready for a new 'toy'.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (1)

dr.badass (25287) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127596)

It's locked in to the worst wireless provider that is out there. Cingluar/AT&T.

You have to remember that wireless provider suckitude varies by locale. There are some places where Cingular either doesn't suck, or at least sucks significantly less than the alternatives. There are also many places where there are no alternatives.

Inflation depends on how you measure it (4, Informative)

vlad_petric (94134) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127044)

Inflation has destroyed the US dollar (down 50% in 5 years), so prices double of what we paid 5 years ago can be considered "par" with the fall in value of the dollar.

If you consider inflation to be the value of precious metals such as gold, then sure, you can get to absurd values such as 50% (mind you, there's no such thing as absolute reference value). OTOH, if you consider consumer price indexes, it's much lower - between 5 and 10%.

Re:Inflation depends on how you measure it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127266)

Don't bother. Anyone dumb enough to believe that the price of gold doesn't fluctuate needs medication, not an attempt at rational argument.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (4, Informative)

MrPerfekt (414248) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127108)

The iPhone looks terrible to me for a variety of reasons -- locked application support, AT&T (love my T-Mobile), restrictive networking (GPRS and not EDGE/3G?), etc

It -is- an EDGE device. EDGE (2.75G) is pretty terrible though compared to real 3G (UMTS/HSDPA) service that Cingular offers. It's definitely in there for revision B but as Apple has stated they don't feel a need to implement it right now since most of the US isn't covered in UMTS/HSDPA service. That will change in the next 12-18 months when you can expect to see iPhone rev. B. T-Mobile is very lagged on their 3G deployment behind Cingular so your HTC is slow as balls anyway compared to Verizon's EVDO (which has very good coverage now) and Cingular's HSDPA (which is still in early deployment stages).

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (1)

zyl0x (987342) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127138)

One thing that people seem to forget time and again is that you can not judge tomorrow's prices on yesterday's prices. Inflation [unanimocracy.com] has destroyed the US dollar (down 50% in 5 years), so prices double of what we paid 5 years ago can be considered "par" with the fall in value of the dollar. I think $500 is a reasonable price..

This doesn't make any sense. New, comparable items being (in your opinion) reasonably priced at "double of what we paid 5 years ago" is ridiculous. Your reasoning is flawed insomuch that you assume people are being paid double what they were 5 years ago, which is simply not the case. Maybe the inflation vs. price increase debate would be worth here had anyone been talking about global economics, but when referring to products in a strictly domestic sense, inflation doesn't matter. Consumers don't want to pay double what they did last year for something that's just as good in comparison.

However, don't misunderstand my point. I'm merely arguing semantics here. The iPhone may or may not be worth $500. My point is that you have no right to claim an increase in costs should be proportionate to the rate of inflation.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (1)

j0nkatz (315168) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127166)

You're a T-Mobile user.
Why would you even care about it not having 3G? T
-Mobile is at least 2 years away from implementing 3G!

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (1)

rspress (623984) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127252)

I have a windows using friend who just tried to go down and put 500 dollars down as a deposit for the iPhone so he gets one when it comes in. They would not let him do it. It is a little pricey for me but then if I had the bucks I would get one.

Re:Ridiculous survey -- the product isn't out. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127270)

"I can't begin to" tell you how little I care what you think. Dammit I just did...

Seriously though, you're a fringe lunatic and your sig admits as much. Why the hell do you think you're representative of anything but other fringe lunatics?

PS don't respond, I told you already I don't care what you think.

Only 1% will buy it at the $599 pricemark (4, Funny)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126886)

Oh sorry, I thought we were talking about the PS3.

Re:Only 1% will buy it at the $599 pricemark (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127244)

Your post hoc ergo propter hoc conclusions in your story linked from your .sig sadden me.

Re:Only 1% will buy it at the $599 pricemark (4, Insightful)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127374)

Oh sorry, I thought we were talking about the PS3.


You joke but it is actually a pretty similar problem.

Most people are used to spending $0-$200 for a phone on contract and buy it because of how it is styled and its color; most of the features of the phone are not important because it is "Just a Phone." To most people spending $500 on a phone seems insane because they realize that they have no use for most of the features.

Now there is an important difference between an iPhone and a PS3 ...

If Sony only sold 5,000,000 PS3 systems in its first year third party developers would abandon their projects and the PS3 would die; if Apple sells 500,000 iPones in its first year they can continue to sell them the following year without any lost value for the system (and the iPhone will eventually become an affordable product).

Re:Only 1% will buy it at the $599 pricemark (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127564)

If Sony only sold 5,000,000 PS3 systems in its first year third party developers would abandon their projects and the PS3 would die; if Apple sells 500,000 iPones in its first year they can continue to sell them the following year without any lost value for the system (and the iPhone will eventually become an affordable product).

MS only sold ~5 mil in it's first 4 quarters of the 360's lifespan. I didn't see the mass exodus of third paties, did you? In Q4 2006 (fifth quarter of its' lifespan) they almost doubled that. Sony needs to be on par tof better and have a good Q4 2007 but ~5 mil will not spell it's death. 3 mil this year may or if they don't move ~10 mil by Q2 2008 perhaps.

I hear... (5, Funny)

User 956 (568564) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126894)

Consumers Unlikely To Pay $500 for iPhone

I hear it's also got less space than a Nomad. Lame.

Well then? (1, Redundant)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126896)

What percentage said they wouldn't buy one at all?

*Runs away*

Re:Well then? (3, Informative)

bradkittenbrink (608877) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126986)

A survey by online market research firm Compete Inc. finds that of the 26% of those who said they're likely to buy an iPhone

Yeah, you'd better run!

Re:Well then? (1)

shmlco (594907) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127028)

Fine with me. Just means that they're more likely to have 'em in stock when I go in to get mine. ;)

Re:Well then? (4, Interesting)

SengirV (203400) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127556)

A hair less than those who said they wouldn't buy an MP3 player for $400 when the 1st generation iPod was released.

surveys (2, Insightful)

udderly (890305) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126902)

Not that I disagree with the assessment that nobody wants a $500 phone, but does anyone else really doubt how accurate these online marketing surveys are? To qualify (and get paid) you usually have to answer a question like the following one from a survey to gather information about enterprise class printers:

How many people work in your company worldwide?

  • 1
  • 2-5
  • 6-15
  • 16-100
  • 101-10000
Well, you know that if you don't answer with the last one, you don't get to participate or get paid. You know that people lie their asses off.



Re:surveys (1)

joto (134244) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127146)

You mean the people behind companies doing consumer surveys don't know basic statistics? This makes no sense. Sure, I will assume that such companies (as any other company) will sell you utter crap compared to what their sales brochure says, but that they deliberately introduce statistical errors for no good reason at all is a bit hard to swallow. Please explain.

Re:surveys (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127518)

When doing any sort of statistically sampling you have to consider your sample population vs the target population. If you wanted to market a new kind of kids snack, you wouldn't target bachelors for a survey. You would target kids and their parents, namely the parent that is in charge of buying groceries. In this case, they asked people who have heard of the iPhone and have/want an iPod. That's not the demographic for the iPhone. The demographic that Apple is seeking is people who are looking to buy a smart phone not a regular cellphone. Maybe later Apple would make a iPhone lite version that is cheaper and might appel more to the masses.

Hmm (2, Insightful)

Rethcir (680121) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126914)

Possibly. I am going to get it (eventually), but I make above-average money and have no kids or anything. I think most consumers expect it to drop in price like other cell phones, IE the razr which was once rediculously priced but now is handed out willy-nilly. Whether that happens or not is yet to be seen, since Apple has no intention of being a typical mobile phone manufacturer.

Re:Hmm (1)

EtherAlchemist (789180) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127424)


I will likely buy it because, on the surface at least, it has everything I've wanted in a phone since my first cell purchase in 2000. Biggest feature for me is the full size touch screen. I don't care for buttons/keys much. If the WiFi is really open to access any wireless network and doesn't cost me extra to use (you never know) then the only thing left for me is speed.

If it is really as fast and capable as the demos make it look, that'll make it a "yes" on the purchase question.

The cost isn't really an issue with me and I'm already a AT&T > Cingular > AT&T subscriber.

Though, I would be more likely to purchase once the first or second rev comes out (looking back at the glossy Nano problems, Mac Book Pro problems, etc) so a few initial real world problems get exposed and hopefully fixed.

Re:Hmm (2, Interesting)

cowscows (103644) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127494)

I think most people with enough familiarity with digital devices to be interested in the iPhone will probably expect it to settle out along similar lines as the iPod. An initial expensive model or two, which will gradually branch out to a range of options that vary in size, functionality, appearance, and of course...price.

There will likely always be a $600 model, it'll just steadily improve in capabilities while the abilities of the previous $600 model finds their way into the new cheaper versions.

Although I will say that one reason that this strategy has worked so well with the iPod is that all version tied in very well with iTunes, which is an excellent piece of software. I don't know what sort of computer software Apple might have that will augment the use of the iPhone, but I think that that could be a big piece of the puzzle.

Skip the phone... (1, Interesting)

Life2Short (593815) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126918)

I'll pay $500 for the wireless internet device / OS X hand-held computer and you can keep the iTunes / Mobile phone functions..

Re:Skip the phone... (2, Insightful)

countSudoku() (1047544) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127358)

And widescreen video iPod to boot! The $500-600 price point is right where I expect it to be, as I was pricing new high-end Palm compatibles a few years ago, and the nice Sony ones (when they still made them) were all BT/WiFi/widescreen and/or twistscreen and guess what? Priced at $500-$700 for the really nice ones with the better screens and networking. The "unopen" aspect of the iPhone environment bothers me a bit, I'd rather have something open like Palm, but I'm also thinking of making the purchase; 1) I'm already on AT&Cingular, 2) my contract ends on my RAZR in April, 3) I've been waiting for the widescreen video iPod already ('bout damn time, I'd say), 3) the RAZR is okay, but it suffers greatly from a poorly designed UI and way too little user memory, 4) I believe it might become a more open platform in the future (however, I have next to nothing to base this on).

Good enough for me, but then I'm not the typical Walmart shopping, late adopter type waiting for the price to drop to ~$300.

Re:Skip the phone... (1)

internetcommie (945194) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127480)

Me too. I'm hard of hearing so using phones, and particularly mobile phones, is very difficult for me but a good, easy to use wireless internet device would be very useful and eliminate my need for a mobile phone. I have one but rarely use it for anything but SMS.
My current phone has various internet functions which are so awkward to use I don't bother unless I am really desperate. Paying $5 for a coffee and getting my Powerbook out seems a reasonable alternative.
If the iPhone was available without any yakking functionality, I'd buy one in a heartbeat even at $599. As it is, I'm waiting for prices to drop. I'll consider it again in another -$300.

I'm getting one (1, Interesting)

ericdano (113424) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126920)

I'm getting one. My Treo 650, while nice, is bulky, and never syncs my contacts and calendar correctly with my Mac. I even have the "MissingSync", and it still doesn't work right.

The iPhone is more than a media player, it's the ultimate PDA. That is what I'm looking for. Something ultra modern, but without the lame keypad at the bottom. Can't tell you how many times I've had to open up my Treo to fix the keyboard when a letter get's pushed the wrong way....

Re:I'm getting one (-1, Troll)

GuyverDH (232921) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127078)

Do you willingly bend yourself over the barrel? Or do they actually have to tie you down with the reigns? Or perhaps both, as you like being tied up with the reigns...

I will NEVER buy an Apple product. Period. Why? Because they don't allow competition. Period.

Every time Apple has ever allowed a competitor to make a compatible product, their sales figures slump, as the clones outsell the *real* thing.

Why is this? Apple doesn't know how to price their products.

They've all been overpriced, underpowered, poorly designed crap.

Macintosh? Black and white crap.
iMac? Candy crap.
Macbook? Porta crap.
iPod? Crap on a string, that doesn't allow you to control your media, your way.
iPhone? TM Stealing crap that you hold to your face - why you'd want to hold that much crap up to your face, I'll never know.

Do I personally despise Apple? yes.

Re:I'm getting one (5, Funny)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127124)

Do I personally despise Apple? yes.

You'd feel different if you had a job.

-jcr

Re:I'm getting one (2, Insightful)

ericdano (113424) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127170)

You are a sad man, period. "They've all been overpriced, underpowered, poorly designed crap." Really, is that why they have been winning award FOR design, and are quoted numerous times as being cost effective and high powered? Go read PC World, or some other rags for the real info.

If you are listening to Enderle or Thurrot, I can see why your head is up your ass.

Re:I'm getting one (0, Flamebait)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127408)

You know, Hitler was fairly popular amongst Nazi's...

I'm not trolling, my point is that just because something is popular does not mean that it instantly becomes good.

Apple does sell crap products. Come on. Making plastic shiny doesn't suddenly make a product ten times better. Yesyesyes, I know I am just one person, but I absolutely despise the way the iPod looks, controls, and feels. Being used as a music player, I see absolutely NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that the iPod offers that you can't get elsewhere for cheaper and better. Not to mention the idea of controlling my music player with a mutilated nipple is a little...well, unsettling.

As far as Macs go, the only thing I could see as being a good reason to get one is for the operating system. The systems themselves (again, in my opinion) are hairy-ass ugly, and frankly FEEL cheap (ditto for the iPod.) Every time I put my hand on that whole-click mouse, I feel I am going to break it. Yes I know you can swap it out, I'm talking about the Apple mouse specifically though.

I've said it many times, and I will say it again: Apple is EXACTLY as bad as Microsoft in terms of being power hungry and money hungry...they are just better at getting you to ignore that fact.

Funny. People have no problem supporting money-vampyres as long as they provide a colorful interface. At least with windows (or linux, for that matter) I can customize my box to the absolute full extent and install it on any system I damn well please, as opposed to having to buy Apple's forced hardware.

To sum it up in one short sentence:

Putting sugar on shit doesn't make it anything other than shit.

Re:I'm getting one (5, Funny)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127286)

Do you willingly bend yourself over the barrel? Or do they actually have to tie you down with the reigns? Or perhaps both, as you like being tied up with the reigns...

Jesus Christ! The word is reins. Reign is what a ruler does over something. Reins are what you guide a horse with.

If you don't understand a word, don't use it.

Why is this? Apple doesn't know how to price their products. They've all been overpriced, underpowered, poorly designed crap.

All? Modern macbook is a great mid-level machine. iPod is quite good for a DRM-enabled player. Original Mac was monochrome, but it did graphics while IBM-clones were still just doing text for the most part. iMac was a success by any standard. The iPhone is the only potential boondoggle in your list. If you had talked about Newtons (Priced WAY over what the market would bear) then maybe you would have a point.

Now, I will happily agree that any Mac from the Macintosh II line forward, up until they went to the intel chips, is overpriced and underpowered. The G4 was the fastest thing around for about a second but it always had a horrible price:performance ratio. But your generalizations are inaccurate.

Do I personally despise Apple? yes.

Yes! Give in to the dark side!

Re:I'm getting one (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127304)

"I will NEVER buy an Apple product. Period. Why? Because they don't allow competition. Period."

I hope you don't use Microsoft products either; otherwise, you'd be shill.

Re:I'm getting one (2, Funny)

timster (32400) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127326)

You know, reading posts like this makes me want to go to the Apple Store and buy something. There seems to be a correlation between people who can't shut up about how much they hate Apple and people who repeatedly make completely absurd posts with a deficient vocabulary.

Seriously, I'll pay a lot of money just to not be like you.

In other news (5, Insightful)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126922)

46% of potential Ferrari buyers said they would buy a Ferrari for $12,000-$18,000. Less than one percent said they would buy a Ferrari for the current list price of $1,000,000.

Re:In other news (5, Funny)

User 956 (568564) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127054)

46% of potential Ferrari buyers said they would buy a Ferrari for $12,000-$18,000.

Ah, I was waiting for the car analogy folks to show up. Just out of curiosity, why go with the Ferrari in this instance? Our research shows that 77% of people in your position would have gone with a BMW or Mercedes comparison. 20% would have made comparison to a Jaguar, and the remaining 3% would have compared the phone to a Cadillac Escalade.

Re:In other news (2, Interesting)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127216)

For eighteen grand, I'd want a car with rather better gas mileage...

-jcr

Re:In other news (1)

supremebob (574732) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127260)

Ferrari caters to the uber-wealthy and their products aren't supposed to have high sales volume and mass market appeal. The same cannot be said for Apple.

Besides... Car analogy's never to work that well with technology anyway.

Re:In other news (1)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127550)

Ferrari caters to the uber-wealthy and their products aren't supposed to have high sales volume and mass market appeal. The same cannot be said for Apple.

Well, if we were talking Macs here, he'd actually be right, because that's Apple's exact strategy - high appeal, high margin, low volume. But I think for this phone to be a winner, it needs to have greater market penetration and a lower price point, as they did with the iPod.

Re:In other news (2, Insightful)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127576)

Ferrari caters to the uber-wealthy and their products aren't supposed to have high sales volume and mass market appeal. The same cannot be said for Apple.

Apple is selling a device to the extreme high end of the market, just like Ferrari. If they max out there production for the first two years they will probably manage to make enough for about 0.1% of the cell phone market. That may not be as small a share as the Ferrari, but based upon initial demand it seems like they will be selling them as fast as they can make them on the high end. After a year, the price will come down and they will aim for one step down from the super high end. It makes sense to me.

Re:In other news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127466)

I can buy a Ferrari 355 right now in almost new shape for $15,000.00 What moron told you that Farrari's cost 1 million dollars?

I like atricles by shavethempuss (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18126960)

better than zonk!!!

Wait a sec. . . (4, Interesting)

TimmyDee (713324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126978)

So only 1% would purchase it at $500, but a full 60% would switch to Cingular to get it. At what price would they switch? $299 or $499? Summary doesn't say, nor does TFA.

Sloppy.

Re:Wait a sec. . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127084)

I don't think that there really is a "price to switch." People will either be willing to switch services or they won't. Me, I'd buy an iPhone for $500, but I wouldn't switch to Cingular if it was free.

phone + computer (2, Informative)

anagama (611277) | more than 7 years ago | (#18126980)

Personally, after the initial excitement wore off, I decided to wait to see if OpenMoko's phone [openmoko.com] is going to be all it seems it could be. Apple lost me when they took a perfectly good computing device and made it phone+music player with some PDA functions tacked. Go ahead an mod me troll, but I've got a stack of apple laptops. I buy stuff for its value and Apple's stuff often packs good value. Not the iPhone though -- I don't see the value there.

Re:phone + computer (1)

Zanth_ (157695) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127370)

Is the word on the street that the PDA functionality will be greatly inhibited? I'm very interested in a PDA + phone that works flawless with my Apple laptop. To this day, nothing seems to work flawlessly. I have/had high hopes for the iPhone, mainly because it is using OS X, but if the PDA functionality is an afterthought only...then I may have to pass. Will there be an input device? (stylus for instance?) Can I integrate with Calendar, Mail, Address Book AND can I also open up Word docs, write my own if need be etc?

Re:phone + computer (3, Insightful)

anagama (611277) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127504)

Undoubtedly it will provide core PDA functions that work with macs. I can't imagine it otherwise.

Where they lose me is in the area of applications. Will there be a encrypted notepad? Nothing can really take the place of an encrypted password list on a PDA. My PDA died a while ago and I was hoping to combine the phone and PDA. As it is now, it's a real pain to drag out whatever computer has the most current password list on it (I try to keep a list on my various computers but it's always out of sync). Aside from that, I want a plain old shell with various apps, like the essential SSH. These things may or may not be on Apple's priority list, but they are on someone's. With the OpenMoko, people can make an application and sell or give it away. With Apple's phone, it remains to be seen whether that natural software ecosystem will develop. It certainly sounds like it will not.

people will pay (4, Insightful)

boxlight (928484) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127016)

Dollars to donuts, people will pay for the iPhone.

They said the original iPod was expensive, too. But there's are segments of society that won't flinch at $500 for a phone because it's not much money to them. And there are other segments of society that are willing to invest $500 of their hard earned money into something they really like.

The iPhone may be expensive for a "phone" -- but as a pocket computer, it's a pretty cool device. These nay-sayers are the same people shelling out thousands of dollars for HD TVs, and I paid $2000 for my iMac a while ago -- in the grand scheme of things, $500 is not that much money.

iPhone will sell like hot cakes and make Apple a tonne of dough.

Re:people will pay (2, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127232)

The iPhone may be expensive for a "phone" -- but as a pocket computer, it's a pretty cool device.

The phone will be locked down and not permit the installation of third-party apps. It's not a pocket computer - that would mean you could expand it. It's a portable information appliance, which means that it behaves like a black box and you are not permitted to open it.

If Apple had allowed unfettered access to the system, and permitted development of third-party apps in xcode, then yes, it would be a fabulous platform. They didn't. So it isn't.

Re:people will pay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127376)


The iPhone may be expensive for a "phone" -- but as a pocket computer, it's a pretty cool device.


Bah even if it were a usable pocket computer (which Apple has already promised it won't be), $500 is still too high.

The only way that anyone will be able to justify this price is the same as the iPod: It makes up for folks insecurity about the length of their dick.

The iPhone: Cheaper than Viagra!

The plan is for 1% (5, Informative)

janneH (720747) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127048)

I seem to recall that Steve Jobs said when introducing the iPhone that they were aiming for 1% of the market initially.

Backwards (3, Interesting)

whisper_jeff (680366) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127060)

The survey is backwards. It asks first if the person is interested in the iPhone _and then_ what price they'll pay. Apple has already said they aren't targeting every phone buyer. They're targeting phone buyers who are planning on/willing to spend $500+ on a phone. They don't (currently) care about the people who want an iPhone but are only willing to spend $200 (or whatever price).

I'd be more interested in what percentage of people who are willing to buy a $500+ phone are planning on getting an iPhone.

(And I'm going to skip the obvious commentary about wanting an iPhone but being "willing" to buy it for as cheap a price as the survey allows because many others are already making those (insightful) comments...)

Re:Backwards, or is it? (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127288)

The survey is backwards. It asks first if the person is interested in the iPhone _and then_ what price they'll pay.

Well, they tried to get people to pay for it who said they didn't want it, but they just kept hanging up on them.

Can you give me $500 for this pile of sludge? Thanks!

Re:Backwards (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127320)

I'd be more interested in what percentage of people who are willing to buy a $500+ phone are planning on getting an iPhone.

That's utterly useless data, because it doesn't tell you what percentage of people are willing to buy one in the first place. It doesn't help you to know that x/90 people will buy your phone if you don't know the value of x.

I don't want one (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127064)

My only requirement in a cell phone is that I want to be able to feel the buttons. You'd be surprised at how many phones are disqualified by this seemingly small requirement. If it has that, then I'll consider it. I also just renewed a two year contract to Sprint so it's highly unlikely I would ever remotely consider getting an apple phone.

"Consumers" (2, Insightful)

TCM (130219) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127068)

We are not consumers! We are citizens and customers, not sheep.

Re:"Consumers" (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127394)

are also consumers.
do you not consume anything?

In this context consumer is correct. When on Capital Hill and involves laws that effect the people, then it's Citizen.

1% of 26% = 0.26%? (2, Insightful)

CheshireCatCO (185193) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127086)

So basically, one person their entire sample was willing to pay the iPhone's nominal, current price? That's a pretty shoddy sample to be deducing the actual percent from.

Also, note that just because the majority of people won't buy a particular product, it does not follow that the product will necessarily fail. What percent of Americans owned iPods when they first came out? It's up to around 10% now, but we're also into the fifth generation and the prices have dropped while capability has increased. Since this is common with technology, I would expect the same from the iPhone.

Re:1% of 26% = 0.26%? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127220)

So basically, one person their entire sample was willing to pay the iPhone's nominal, current price?
Whiney Mac Fanboy, was that you?

(I kid, I kid...)

cost? (1)

derniers (792431) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127176)

we don't know the cost yet, once Apple/AT&T tell us (they probably don't know yet) what the plans will cost per month then we can decide, if the rumors are correct and the plans will be in the zero-$10/month range then it looks pretty good, at $25/month it looks too expensive (for me), $500 for the iPhone and two years service is a steal...... $1500 is way too much and the real price will be somewhere in between

Reality is US consumers used to contracts (4, Insightful)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127182)

Here in the US, as opposed to say Japan or the EU, we pay for our $500 cell phones in multi-year contracts for phone services, so we actually think it costs us $50 for a phone, since it's bundled with our overpriced service.

In other places you pay the actual price of the phone and your wireless service is $10 to $20 a month.

The same thing will happen with the iPhone - US and Canadian customers will be offered a plan where we basically amortize the cost of the iPhone over 2 or 3 years of wireless service, and end up paying much more than we would if we kept it separate.

except the iPhone will be different (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127416)

One of the terms of the AT&T/Apple deal was that AT&T /not/ subsidize the price of the iPhone.

the author is statistically challenged (2, Informative)

u19925 (613350) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127198)

The author surveyed 379 people of which 26% said they will buy iPhone. That is roughly 100 people, of which 1% said they will pay $500. That is just 1 person. Whoever translates this to 1% is a "statistically challenged" person.

Hypocrisy, anyone? (0, Troll)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127234)

...rather than integrating everything into a smooth GUI. Apple's interface alone will sell millions, and people will pay the price.
So wait, let me get this straight. Microsoft releases an OS that many people say looks too candy and toy like (XP). Apple releases (pictures of) a phone whose interface is just as candy and toylike (albiet a bit more colorful), and people drool over it. Fanboys. You do realize that Apple is just as greedy as Microsoft is, yes? The only difference is Microsoft KNOWS that they are and don't give a shit, whereas Apple tries to make you think otherwise (which their insanely annoying but quite successful marketing somehow accomplishes) So step up to the plate, critics. Either you like things looking plasticy and like toys or you don't. Which is it?

Re:Hypocrisy, anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127368)

you are probably going to get marked down for trolling. Dont contest the apple people.

Apple is a small corner of the market yet it has the loudest fanboys.

Re:Hypocrisy, anyone? (0, Flamebait)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127506)

Fuck the fanboys. You know they modded me down? Because they were either

A. Too chickenshit to respond properly

or

B. Know that I am right and can't think of something to respond with that won't sound as stupid as this response.

Re:Hypocrisy, anyone? (1)

DDLKermit007 (911046) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127486)

Have you actually used an Apple computer before? Yes things look all plasticly, nice, and possibly toyish, but thats how it's been for a very long time with Apple. Difference here is when Apple makes something with that feel it's done well, and mature looking. Everytime MS does it, well, it looks tacked on, and very Fisher Price.

Re:Hypocrisy, anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127530)

see? he is already getting marked down for trolling. Cant even have a decent argument in an apple topic. Any faults against apple is automatically trolling.

I really don get it (4, Interesting)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127246)

Why is 500 for the iPhone too much, when its 450 for the Motorola Q and its a terrible phone that people still buy?

Re:I really don get it (2, Informative)

n2art2 (945661) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127412)

um. . . got mine for 100 bucks. with a 2 year contract. . . the same is for the iPhone. . . but it is 500 bucks. . with a 2 year contract.

That's ok, math wasn't your best suit.

Apple should sell in India (1)

u19925 (613350) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127280)

I was reading this rediff article [rediff.com] in which a middle class teen ager is complaining about price of tomato (20 cents a pound) and is carrying USD 400+ cellphone. They sure do have lot of money to buy cell phones.

Even if you believe these numbers: (1)

egyber (788117) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127378)

Even if these numbers are completely accurate, and you assume that 200 out of the 300 million people in the US are cell phone buyers, this still means 300,000 iPhones would be sold in the US. Given that Steve Jobs said his companies goal was to have 1 million iPhones out in the wild, globally, by the end of 2008, this number is extremely reasonable. Remember, prices will drop, additional incentives will be created, etc. Also, keep in mind that once people see the iPhones in action, when the Jones' next door have one, etc., this no longer becomes a completely rational purchase. The iPhone won't work for me, so I doubt I'll ever buy one, but I still fully expect this to be a hit.

wouldn't pay for it (1)

Enrique1218 (603187) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127392)

I am not going to pay $500 for just a phone, but I would pay $500 for a mobile computer. I am not an early adaopter by any stretch. Even if I was I would still not pay for the iPhone. It has to be open to developers so it can expand with my needs. The most resounding feature is how much it is limited. It is limited to Cingular with 2 year contract, no new apps unless Apple makes them, and the lifetime of the battery (they don't last forever). Ill pass for now.

I'm getting one (2, Interesting)

Paulrothrock (685079) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127418)

Or, rather, my wife is getting one.

Her birthday is in June, and she needs a new iPod and a new cell phone, and we're already with Cingular and are happy with the service. She saw that you can show pictures to people on that wide screen and said "I want to be able to do that." And now that we've got a baby on the way, it will make it a helluva lot easier than having to lug photos around or view it on my iPod's comparatively small screen, or the tiny screen of an iPod Nano. And having her address book and calendar with her would be very convenient.

So it's not for everybody, but for her it can replace having to carry around two larger items that, were I to buy them separately, would cost about the same price.

$500 + may work without a forced 2 year plan (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127442)

$500 + may work without a forced 2 year plan but the I-phone will likely force you buy a 2 year high cost data plan as well a 2 year voice plan

what about the plans and such (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127454)

I know that $500 is a lot to shell out for a phone, but I have a $300 phone, but paid less than half price for it, because you usually sign some service contract to get a ridiculously low price. So while people might not be willing to pay $500, hardly anyone is going to be paying that price, they'll probably be paying around that 200-300 mark anyways.

Most americans aren't willing to pay *anything* (1)

merreborn (853723) | more than 7 years ago | (#18127542)

Most americans aren't willing to pay *anything* up front for a cellphone. But we will accept a two year contract at double the normal rate, as long as we get the phone for "free".

So they'll do the same thing with the iPhone that they do with every other phone. They'll offer 'em at half the price, and charge you an arm and a leg every month for 24 months or more. And most Americans will thank them for it.

That, and employers will buy them for their employees. So yes, only 1% of those surveyed would pay $500, but in the end, more than 1% of those surveyed will end up with an iPhone.

Wait a second... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18127626)

Didn't RAZR phones used to cost about $500? I seem to remember how ridiculously over-priced that seemed, but they give you a deal on the phone when you get a service plan. So the iPhone will probably end up costing $250 - $300 with a 2 year plan.
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