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For Unlucky 360 Owner Seventh Time's the Charm

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the give-him-some-bennies dept.

XBox (Games) 153

Microsoft has maintained that the problems occasionally reported by Xbox 360 owners are not very prevalent; just a small percentage of 360s are faulty, they say. That may be so, but for one unlucky console owner it's taken seven faulty consoles for him to get customer service satisfaction. The Mercury News discusses the tale of Rob Cassingham, a self professed 'Xbox fanboy'. He and his wife Mindy run a gaming center, and were responsible (via direct purchases and through word of mouth) for more than a dozen 360 purchases. For his business, he had six machines ... and every one of them failed. Even one of the replacements for the original unit failed, and for every replacement he's had to wait two weeks to get a new system. As he puts it, "Why spend money for rims on a car that spends 90 percent of its time in the shop?" After the Merc's Dean Takahashi referred his case to Peter Moore, he finally received a new machine as a replacement for his most recent faulty model. Cassingham is still deciding whether to keep it or not.

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Heat & Hard-Drive (4, Insightful)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128568)

The combination of the ammount of heat being produced by the XBox 360 (and PS3) is probably the #1 reason these systems fail ...

Everyone knows how hot a 100w light-bulb gets (because we've all been foolish enough to touch one) and both the XBox 360 and PS3 have the equivilant of 2 of these bulbs running in a very tight space; this heat can not be particularly good for any of the components and (probably) rapidly ages everything.

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18128924)

Oh look! Someone is trying to lump the PS3 in with the Xbox 360 hardware defect fiasco!

Fucking pathetic.

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129618)

What do you expect? Hatred of Sony is required here. I'm surprised there wasn't also mention of PS3s on store shelves everywhere "with dust on them".

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (1)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129758)

Anonymous Coward Sony Fanboy Troll,

No one says that you have to hate Sony, in fact if you have rational arguments most people will read your post and respond appropriately. If you actually read my post I never claimed that there were a large number of failures of either the PS3 or XBox 360 and just speculated that any failures were probably due to the heat of these systems; 200 Watts is a lot of energy which is being directly converted to heat and when it is in such a confined space it can do harm to most electronic components.

Another thing to consider is that if you want to be taken seriously you should probably get an account; anytime an anonymous coward makes a claim which is not directly backed up with a link to a reputable source it is automatically assumed that it is a troll. If you build a strong enough reputation people will (likely) take your word on what you say because you have been correct far more times than you have been wrong.

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129914)

What a fucking nutcase.

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (4, Funny)

Iamthefallen (523816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129286)

Sure it sounds like a design flaw, but in reality, it was supposed to also double as an Easy-Bake Oven.

Muffins and Halo, awesome.

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (1)

Loadmaster (720754) | more than 7 years ago | (#18130006)

Reminds me of a Sealab 2021 episode.

Murphy: "It is NOT a toy. It has icing packets. And a 40-watt bulb. But the secret ingredient is love. Dammit."

Murphy: "NO. I MUST have my oven. My sweet, CAKEY treasures, piping hot from their 40, WATT, WOOOMMBBBB."

RIP Harry Goz

Swi

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18130016)

EasyBake 360 - has a nice ring to it.

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (1)

mypalmike (454265) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129352)

Google recently found that contrary to conventional wisdom, drives at low temperatures fail more than those at high temperatures [google.com] . (Pdf warning. Summary here [bbc.co.uk] ).

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129640)

Accurate information clearly wasn't the agenda behind the OP.

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (1)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129702)

The drives in my case, which are in a cage right behind the intake fan, are at 39 and 41C right now. Looking at the graph, that's entirely within the safe area. Now, should I turn the fan off, I wouldn't surprised if it climbed past 45 C, which on the graph starts looking dangerous. I've seen temperatures a lot higher than that. A 7200RPM disk in a bad case could reach 55C quite easily, which isn't even on the graph. Of course, Google has a decent datacenter where they don't get temperatures like that, but that probably makes a decent part of the temperature they're subjected to by normal users.

Even with a fan blowing right on the disk, I don't remember seeing a drive temperature below 35C (with ambient at 25C or so). That seems to indicate that the low temperatures at which drives start failing are only achievable with air conditioning.

So, for normal people I'd say the old advice still holds: really hot drives are a bad thing. The low temperature data is interesting, but it's probably only relevant to datacenters, and seems to point that turning it into a freezer isn't necessarily a good idea.

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (1)

Amouth (879122) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129944)

you have to wonder if it was jsut that they where running cooler.

if they are running cooler than the dew point then they could have had minor condensation either inside or out side of the drive caseing.. after removing it from the cool enviroment to insepection it would have heated up and the visable water would have been gone and the drive would have just looked like it had failed.

this is somehting on pary with tin/zinc wiskers.. (google it if you don't know about it - realy neat stuff)

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (1)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#18130048)

I could be wrong, but "temperature" is not the only problem that could be caused by the energy output of these systems. As an example, what happens to a hard-drive if it has a large temperature variation from one side of the hard-drive to the other? Being that a hard-drive is such a precise device I would anticipate that the expansion/contraction caused by a 20 or 30 degree variation could have serious impacts.

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129384)

Have a link to any examples of PS3s overheating? The PS3 has an amazing piece of cooling tech inside that has been written about in many computer news sites.

The only hardware problem I've ever seen reported from PS3 owners is one or two people who had drives that weren't ejecting discs properly.

As to the Xbox 360 there has been yet no one verifiable reason why so many of them fail. Silly products like that intercooler device have give people the erroneous assumption that heat is what is causing 360s to die over and over again. Right now only Microsoft has an idea of what went wrong with the 360 hardware design and manufacturing. Whatever the reason or reasons it can't be something simple if so many people are still talking about and falling victim to those problems.

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129892)

You do realise that these systems have fans in them, which helps remove the heat. Right??

Re:Heat & Hard-Drive (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 7 years ago | (#18130716)

The solution!! Quick, everyone turn your fans on and we can stop global warming!!

Huh (2, Insightful)

ObiWanStevobi (1030352) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128572)

I have mine on the way back to MS right now. DVD drive went out completely after 8 months. Just like the Original Xbox. I actually consider myself lucky mine went out in time to be covered by the extended warranty. I think that will always be something Playstaion has up on the 360, hardware quality. Obviously MS learned nothing from the crappy xbox drives the first go round.

Re: Disagree (1)

tetsu96 (790788) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128750)

Even with all the different DVD drives, the original xbox was pretty solid. The 360 OTOH is the first console I ever had which failed (DVD failure ~9 months). I skipped the PS2 but a friend had that fail as well.

Re: Disagree (1)

dami99 (1014687) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129220)

Agreed.

I've modded / repaired quite a few of both ps2 and xbox. I believe the xbox had superior hardware.

The first few versions of ps2 drives had quite a few problems with the dvd drives. (Crap lasers, you could fix it temporarly by adjusting the pot, but that only saved you a few months)

The thomson xbox drives were really bad too.

Re:Huh (1)

wilgibson (933961) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128776)

I think that will always be something Playstaion has up on the 360, hardware quality. Obviously MS learned nothing from the crappy xbox drives the first go round.

Oddly enough, neither did Sony. I don't know about you, but the handful of people I knew that had PS1s in highschool all had to get at least a second one due to the first one flat out dieing. I myself had 3, and the PS2 sitting in my entertainment center is my second. The first stopped playing DVDs after 6 months, strangely enough CDs were just fine(both music and games).

Then there is my GameCube. It's always treated me well. I bought it right after release never had a problem.

Re:Huh (1)

Kazzahdrane (882423) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129120)

"The first stopped playing DVDs after 6 months, strangely enough CDs were just fine(both music and games)."

The PS2 has two lasers, one for DVDs and one for CDs. This is why when many PS2s "break" they continue to play one type of disc. Where I work we get a lot of people asking "oh, is that game on a blue disc? Because my PS2 doesn't play them for some reason". Blue disc = Playstation CD game, silver disc = Playstation DVD game.

Re:Huh (1)

Vampyre_Dark (630787) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129680)

My PS1 is going on a decade now, and the SlimPS2 I've had never gave me one problem. I got lucky I guess. I've never had a console break on me except my xbox. The DVD drive got worse and worse until it just wouldn't load anything anymore.

Re:Huh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18128884)

"I think that will always be something Playstaion has up on the 360, hardware quality."

I would have to guess you've never purchased a first gen PS1 or PS2. They sucked in terms of longevity; disk read errors were a common problem. My first two PS2's both crapped out after a few months.

Unfortunately first gen hardware being prone to faults seems to be the rule rather than the exception in the hardware industry. Of my first gen hardware, only my gamecube still functions correctly. Hopefully I'll have as much luck with the Wii.

Re:Huh (2, Funny)

Henry V .009 (518000) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128920)

Yeah, same here. Mine was shipped back last week because of the DVD drive. This is actually the second time I've shipped it back. The first was because of a red circle of light resulting from a firmware upgrade. Fully covered under warranty both times.

Also, it was stolen and sold for rock cocaine once, but the police got it back for me.

Re:Huh (1)

Henry V .009 (518000) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129068)

Funny? It's true. I even made Kotaku.

Re:Huh (1)

brkello (642429) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129576)

Right. Because PS2 drives never failed. I'd like some of whatever you are smoking.

Re:Huh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129728)

This is why I game on my PC. When you buy a console your having hardware forced upon you which may or may not be decent. Ever wonder how they pack so much in at such a small cost? They use some pretty cheap stuff sometimes and I imagine that the DVD drives just aren't top notch at all. If you can save $1 on every XBOX 360, to Microsoft thats a load of money when you start adding it all up.

If you go with a brand new console then you get issues, if I choose my parts, spend more money, then generally my hardware doesn't fail and when it does, its for a damn good reason too.

Re:Huh (0, Offtopic)

master0ne (655374) | more than 7 years ago | (#18130514)

why would they? they haven't in the past either.... windows 3.1 was horrendous, so they released windows 95, which was horrendous, so they released windows 98 which was a bit better after second edition came around, and as a upgrade they released ME, which was almost as bad as 95.. and FINALLY they released 2000, then XP which were both a bit better... now Vista which in my opinion isn't much different than XP, because on many levels its better, but on many levels its worse.... so just wait until MS releases Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive XP, and stick with it..... Me, im just gonna buy a PS3 to go with my Wii and have fun..

Not broken (2, Insightful)

digidave (259925) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128582)

Everyone always says that failure statistics on the web are poor because nobody comes around and says their system is working fine. Maybe we can do an informal Slashdot poll of all Xbox 360 owners.

If your Xbox 360 has failed, reply with the subject "Broken". If your Xbox 360 has not failed reply with the subject "Not broken". This will make it easy to scan responses without opening each post. Use the post comment area if you have something more to say.

Re:Not broken (2)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128610)

And how do you tell if someone actually owns an XBox 360?

I'm certain that many (if not most) of the "Broken" responses would be from PS3 fanboys

broken (1)

coolestdickofall (858613) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128698)

Mine broke after 5 months. 3 red lights.. This was before they extended the warranty. Luckily I had the warranty from Best Buy and I now have a Wii and a DS..

Re:broken (1)

aslate (675607) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129030)

Wait, 5 months and it's out of warranty? WTF?

Here a product should be good for an expected lifetime for that product. Most electrical items must have a 1 year waranty, if not more.

Re:broken (1)

prockcore (543967) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129978)

Wait, 5 months and it's out of warranty? WTF?


My 360 came with a 1 year warranty. I went ahead and got the 3 year warranty from MS. Someone saying it's out of warranty after 5 months is confused.

Re:broken (1)

Daoenti (552606) | more than 7 years ago | (#18130124)

Nope, you are confused. The original warranty on the XBox 360 was 90 days... that's it, 3 months. Very recently (back in the middle of December) MS extended all warranties out to 1 year [com.com] . A notable quote from the C-NET story:

Just in time for last-minute holiday shoppers, Microsoft has extended the Xbox 360's warranty from 90 days to one year, bringing it in line with the warranty lengths of rival game consoles from Sony and Nintendo.
Mine started failing about three days before they extended the warranty, at the five month mark (which at the time was still two months out of warranty). I was able to baby it along for a couple of days then it locked up hard (red ring of death). Let it sit for a few days and then read that they had extended the warranties so I called in, got my re-furb in about 1 week.

Re:Not broken (0)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129142)

PS3 fanboys

And there are exactly how many of those? I think it's a huge logical cop out when you deflect criticism of your "thing" by assumign all criticism is simply fanboys. Also given how bland the reception to the ps3 was I doubt there are actually all that many fanboys.

Re:Not broken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18130180)

Or the Wii fanboys. But there's probably none of them around here, is there? Nosirreee Bob..

Re:Not broken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18130568)

It could be Wii fanboys but I would doubt it ...

The PS3 is doing so poorly that most of its fanboys are bitter and jaded right now ...
The Wii on the other hand is doing so well that its fanboys are pretty happy ...

The result is that the PS3 fanboys will take any opportunity to talk about how shitty another console is while the Wii fanboys will take any opportunity to talk about how great their system is. I saw similar behavior with Nintendo fans with the N64 and XBox fans with the original XBox ...

Broken. (0, Offtopic)

Spazntwich (208070) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128636)

Your polling method, that is.

I don't own an xbox360, and nothing is keeping me from skewing your sample.

Re:Broken. (1)

digidave (259925) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128718)

Yes, well, this is a web poll conducted on a message board. What exactly do you want? Me coming around to everyone's house to make sure they have a 360?

Re:Broken. (1)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129320)

Sure, that sounds good.

We'll wait here.

Re:Broken. (2, Funny)

Headcase88 (828620) | more than 7 years ago | (#18130282)

Suggest it as a poll in the Everybody Votes Channel ;)

Re:Broken (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128654)

Had one, started freezing. Took it back to gamestop, got an all new one. That started freezing. Took it back and got a third one.

Running solid for two weeks so far ::crosses fingers::

In an open space with good airflow (I have an old switched-AT power supply with two fans hooked up to it...one pushing air in, one sucking it out the back...both laying up against the box, so no I have not opened any of the ones that I have.)

Not Broken (x2) (1)

soccerace09 (908351) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128668)

My family has two Xbox 360's, both of which are functioning.

Re:Not Broken (x2) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129080)

Is your family functioning, though?

Re:Not broken (1)

CowboyBob500 (580695) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128686)

Had mine for 5 months. No issues so far...

Bob

Not broken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18128738)

I've only had my box for about 6 months, but so far it's been working fine. It's crashed twice in that 6-month period, and in both cases a restart set it right again.

Halo 5 (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128754)

Broken [wikipedia.org] . And it wasn't an Xbox 360; it was a Wii. Once its fan failed, even 20 watts was too much for the heat sink alone to dissipate, and it turned itself off after 30 minutes.

No xbox (i guess that's a kind of broken) (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129302)

And it wasn't an Xbox 360; it was a Wii. Once its fan failed, even 20 watts was too much for the heat sink alone to dissipate, and it turned itself off after 30 minutes.

My Gamecube died the same way after 5 years. It didn't shut itself off, it just started crashing. Didn't take long to figure out why. I think it suffered some damage (partly because I tried using a box fan next to the intake opening as a low-rent replacement so that I could finish a boss fight in Baten Kaitos... too bad it didn't last long enough to get to a save point), because after I replaced the fan it suffered from disk read failures and it never had before the fan failed.

Sucks that your fan in your Wii would die so soon. I hope it turning itself off means it will still work when the fan is replaced -- not important when its under warranty, but at the 5 year mark.

Broken (1)

Lenolium (110977) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128756)

Broken, over 1 year old, Microsoft replaced without any hassle. Shipped me back a replacement unit instead of repairing.

Not Broken (1)

Gulthek (12570) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128880)

Running for months, multi-hour sessions, cramped entertainment center: feelin' fine.

*knocks on his wooden desk*

Not broken (1)

bradkittenbrink (608877) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128922)

see subject

Not broken (1)

shlepp (796599) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129054)

Still on my launch 360, running perfectly fine still, fans make a bit of noise for the first 3 minutes or so on power up just like my comp does so no irregularities there. I have played tons of games on it for really long time periods (sometimes leaving console on, paused, overnight). Only once i got a 3 red light error because my cable became unplugged from my 360 partly.

broken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129140)

Died after 5 months. I just got #2 last week.

Broken (1)

Conception (212279) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129222)

n/t

Not broken (1)

User 956 (568564) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129326)

TSIA

Not an owner (0, Offtopic)

Ford Prefect (8777) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129334)

Everyone always says that failure statistics on the web are poor because nobody comes around and says their system is working fine. Maybe we can do an informal Slashdot poll of all Xbox 360 owners.

I disagree with your testing methodology - such a survey is inherently biased and self-selecting towards those who own Xbox 360 consoles, broken or not.

So in the interests of balance, I wish to report that I do not own an Xbox 360 games console. Or any other console, for that matter. However, this does mean that I have not personally encountered any problems with the Xbox 360's alleged unreliability!

Three not broken (2, Insightful)

MBraynard (653724) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129338)

One is 10 months old, the other two are two months old.

I think the guy in the story's problem is likely his power system in the building. It may be low or have some kind of wiring issue. That's way too much of a coincidence.

Not Broken (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129354)

Also, this poll is stupid.

Not broken (1)

TeamSPAM (166583) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129430)

I bought a Wii! ;-)

Not broken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129490)

Not broken

Both (1)

JFMulder (59706) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129550)

I bought a a launch unit and it wouldn't play games one time out of two. Instead of launching the game, it would read the DVD-movie part of the disk that says "This is a 360 game, put this in a 360" or something to that effect. So I returned my unit, got a complete refund (except for the game, got 40$ of my 70$ back... stupid store policy). Then I waited for GRAW to come out in March, walked into a store and bought one from the shelves. Has been working fine since then, tough I did experience a couple of disk errors while playing GRAW and Oblivion, but not from other games, so I blame the disks, not the console.

I've had a handful of freezes while playing games on disks, but the Ninety Nine Nights demo would almost ALWAYS lock up after 10-30 minutes of play, regardless of how long the console had been turned off. Tried clearing the 360 game/patch cache, but it didn't fix the problem. The retail version of the game doesn't have this problem, tough it did hang once or twice during the whole compaign (Can't beat that stupid last boss tough. grrrr...)

I'm dissapointed about the hangs, but they are so few and far appart that I'm just not going to bother with returning the unit now and wait until my 2 year extra warranty (on top of the 1 year) is almost over. Then I'll call support and get a replacement. By then I suppose the hardware will have all the problems fixed. Maybe I'll be lucky and get one of those with the silent DVD drives, who knows?

Broken (1)

Itchyeyes (908311) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129556)

Disk drive about 3 months in. MS replaced it for free.

Broken (1)

wingfoot (769619) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129634)

Just got it back. My original started crashing more often and then wham...3 Red Lights of Death. The replacement seems to be working ok...but I have only been on it for a few hours.

I chose (1)

fluffywuffy (844881) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129638)

Cowboy Neal :-)

Broken (1)

jasko (684642) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129756)

My launch-day 360 has been home TWICE. But my warranty was extended after the second time until late Sept. 07, and I believe I got a new system after the second time. Service has been good. Don't pretend PS2s didn't and PS3s won't break.

Not broken (1)

Brigade (974884) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129800)

Not broken, Midnight Launch 360. Used to freeze during long sessions until I set up proper ventilation in the cabinet it was sitting in. (DUH .. so it wouldn't recirculate the hot air it was pumping out back through the intake)

1 Broken, 1 Not Broken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129802)

Recently purchased an XBox 360; first one I got, I brought it home from Circuit City, hooked it up, and got the three lights. Tried removing the hard drive, checked the power brick (led was green), etc etc, after four tries each with the lights 0222 I think the error code was (using the flashing indicator method, seeing how it never got picture out to the TV or my Monitor). Bad graphics card.

Took it back the next day, got a replacement, no problem with this second one, though I've only had it for 2 weeks.

Re:Not broken (1)

jwink (895907) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129876)

Not broken, but then I've only had it for two months. A friend of mine who got his at pretty much the same time has had DVD drive issues - it wouldn't close due to a bracket misalignment. This issue, however, was brought on by user issues, particularly the not-so-gentle handling by his kids.

Mine is on a wood shelf and fairly well ventilated (lots of space around it). I was thinking it'd last a while if I kept it like that, but hearing what everyone is saying, maybe not...?

One Broken, One Not broken (1)

lmnfrs (829146) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129972)

Our release day console had an incomplete controller (battery pack missing a terminal) so it was unusable. Though, technically the console has had no problems. My personal console runs, but it won't play Gears of War without an Internet connection (I don't have broadband at home *gasp*), so it doesn't really work.
I think those kinda even out to one broken, one not broken.

Re:Not broken (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 7 years ago | (#18130054)

Mine's working fine. Well as far as I know. I haven't turned it on in the few months since my old Linux-running computer died and I bought a Mac and discovered that I could play "WoW". But last time I checked it was working fine.

I figure I might actually turn it on again whenever Blue Dragon gets released...

Re:broken (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18130378)

I had one of these (xbox 360) on launch day, bloody thing went dead after one week

Note: I will NEVER buy M$ hardware in my life again

Now a proud owner of a 60GB PS3 , psp , and ps2

Broken (x2) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18130732)

First one got wierd (kept losing profiles, corrupting game saves), swapped both xbox360 and HD.
Second one (after one month) stopped reading/recognising games and giving disc errors/disc unreadable.

Still we figure if this one dies in 6 months we can get one of the mk2 cooler running 360's as a replacement ;-)

Oh and if you're in the UK HMV *rocks* for replacements if it all goes pete tong.

Hardware sucks. (4, Insightful)

TeraCo (410407) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128588)

If all of them failed (and he bought them all at the same time for his xbox emporium), perhaps he just got a bad batch? We bought a bunch of Dell Poweredges and now 2 years later, they're all flaking out with CPU errors - 3 in the last week.

Re:Hardware sucks. (1)

Frag-A-Muffin (5490) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128948)


If all of them failed (and he bought them all at the same time for his xbox emporium), perhaps he just got a bad batch?

It *was* a bad batch, it just so happened that batch was the complete launch batch :)

Re:Hardware sucks. (2, Funny)

TeraCo (410407) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129040)

*boom tish* Well, based on what I've read I can't really argue with that. There's apparently a new model of xbox360 coming out soon in Australia. Same price, etc, just a newer hardware revision.

I only recently bought a PS2 and a bunch of old JRPG's, but since my yearly bonus comes down from 'on high' soon, I'm considering buying 1) An Xbox360, 2) A PS3, or 3) A giant stack of ham, which I'll then cover with petrol and burn in some kind of weird effigy.

I wish one of the consoles would hurry up and win so I could make a decision :P

Re:Hardware sucks. (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129404)

More likely the building has dirty power. Even the best power supply can't cope with the wiring in some buildings... I have a buddy who can't run a PC for more than a month, no matter how beefy the PSU is, because the wiring in his house is crap. He plugged in a UPS at my suggestion, and the wiring killed the UPS too! (It was a cheapish UPS, but still, you reach a point where you can't blame anything but the wall power.)

Re:Hardware sucks. (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 7 years ago | (#18130948)

Only cheap, poor build quality hardware sucks.

My ~15 year old Sega CD's still going fine after all these years. About the only thing that's ever happened to it is a blown fuse.

Ain't Coincidence a Bitch? (4, Insightful)

Bones3D_mac (324952) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128670)

Seriously... you'd think everyone has issues with the things. My release date 360 still runs just as well as it did since it arrived.

Get over the anti-Microsoft high-horse, guys. The console is perfectly stable for those of us who take the time to clean up around the thing an don't stuff it into an air-tight hole somewhere.

Re:Ain't Coincidence a Bitch? (1)

Sta7ic (819090) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128894)

Hell, I have an XBox that I picked up about six months after release, and the only problem I'm having five years later is that the laser in the DVD is getting old and doesn't always want to read some audio CDs (both normal and enhanced).

Nothing wrong with the machine for having a Microsoft logo on it.

Re:Ain't Coincidence a Bitch? (1)

Xzzy (111297) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129058)

Your sole experience with a 360 is no more useful for making a conclusion than this fellow's experience with 7 360's. It's a logical fallacy for people with either experience to make a judgement on the 360's reliability based on their personal experiences, though I'm not going to bother going to look up which one it is in specific.

It's completely unfair for you to pigeon-hole anyone who's had a dead 360 as a slob who failed to give the unit proper ventilation.

Re:Ain't Coincidence a Bitch? (2, Informative)

Dan Slotman (974474) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129246)

Fallacy of composition [wikipedia.org] , with a healthy dose of Biased Sample [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Ain't Coincidence a Bitch? (1)

Kazzahdrane (882423) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129192)

Firstly, I do kinda agree with your point. I work in a games store and even though we tell people when we sell them a 360, "keep it well ventilated, don't move it around while it's turned on, etc", they still do it and act all indignant when their machine breaks down. However, we get a lot of faulties that can't be explained by simple idiot gamers, for example from regulars to the store who we know full well treat their games and consoles better than their friends and family. Personally my 360 is functioning fine, but I feel lucky which shows how common faults are, certainly with the early machines.

Re:Ain't Coincidence a Bitch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129232)

Mine was always in open air on 5 sides and yet somehow it did the impossible (according to complete idiots) and died.

Re:Ain't Coincidence a Bitch? (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129360)

Seriously... you'd think everyone has issues with the things. My release date 360 still runs just as well as it did since it arrived.

Get over the anti-Microsoft high-horse, guys. The console is perfectly stable for those of us who take the time to clean up around the thing an don't stuff it into an air-tight hole somewhere.


You anecdote is not indicitive of all 360's just as my launch PS2 is not indicative of other PS2's fromt hat time. My PS2 has been running with heavy use for almost 6 years. It's only now starting to have a bit of disc reading slow down. Audio sometimes takes a half a second to start up in dialogue on MGS3. Aside from that no problems. But a moderate percentage of the launch ps2's had the disc read error of death. Just because it's fine for me or you doesn't mean other units dont' have problems.

Re:Ain't Coincidence a Bitch? (1)

Loadmaster (720754) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129858)

I thought the same thing as you. For the record, bought an Xbox on launch day and bought an Xbox 360 in January 2006 (manufactured Oct. 05). I had it on a wire rack, both the unit and power supply. No problems. All the problems I thought were because people were stuffing it and their unit had no heat dissipation. Well, a few months later mine died. It froze a few times then red lights of death a few weeks later. I'm a big hardware guy so I opened her up to see inside. Conclusion: I don't know, so I bought a new one. Working flawlessly so far. Seems those with the problems are the ones who bought launch 360s then sent them back to MS to get "fixed." I write "fixed" because MS just sends you a refurbished system. If it broke once it will probably break twice. And they usually do.

Anyway, my point is, even with proper cooling the initial 360s had problems. If you send it back to MS they'll give you a "fixed" 360 and not a new one. That's why some people get seven.

Swi

I got a new unit 1st time around (2, Interesting)

0kComputer (872064) | more than 7 years ago | (#18128674)

This was around mid December, I called cust support and went through all the troubleshooting procedures. Long story short, they wanted me to pay 140 for the repairs. After asking for her supervisor etc... they finally agreed to send me a new one for free. They sent a box and i put my old unit in and fed ex'd it back about a week later i got a brand new unit. The total turnaround time was about 10 days. Haven't had any problems since. Since then i've learned that they extended the warranty to one year (from 3 months). So I have to say that my experience was generally good given the situation. Not sure why they would keep sending refurbs. All I can say is that i just followed their instructions to a tea. Maybe this guy was doing something wrong.

Re:I got a new unit 1st time around (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129432)

For electronics, fixing them can be more expensive then fabing a new one depending ont he problem. Also once fixed electronics tend to fail more often after. So a machine that has been fixed once tends ot break more often then a machine that has never been fixed at all of the same age. So for them given these two facts they'd rather just send you a new one.

Anecdote: My Sony cybershot retailed for $250 when I bought it. Last year it broke and it cost me $100 ot fix it. I debated if I wanted to fix it or not since a new one is about $250. I eventually paid to fix it. It came back with some odd new quirks. Not owrht it. I made the wrong decision.

Re:I got a new unit 1st time around (1)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 7 years ago | (#18130142)

So I have to say that my experience was generally good given the situation.

Your definition of "good" differs from mine. My idea of "good" would to have not had it fail in the first place.

Worst Console Ever (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18128780)

Microsoft wasted billions with the idiotic notion that cramming commodity x86 pc parts into a big ugly black box on the first Xbox. And now with their second effort in the console market they have managed to put out the worst console ever made. Go to any console forum on the net and there are still, still!, a year and a half after the console has been on the market 360s dropping dead.

Just a quick look at last quarter's results for Microsoft show the Xbox's division is still bleeding cash at a sickening rate. I read somewhere that the 'profits' from the 360 were going to help Microsoft subsidize the price of the Zune and undercut Apple's iPod line. So much for that plan.

I've seen other 360 owners do more damage to the Xbox brand than any other console maker with the constant and desperately fanatical attempt to silence the huge numbers of 360 owners whose machines have died. The last thing someone who is looking at 400 dollar brick connected to their TV is a bunch of lunatic fanboys calling you an idiot.

The 360 is selling worse in Japan and Europe and almost as well in the US. After six years in the console market and nothing to show for the billions wasted you have to wonder if Microsoft is still trying just to save face and avoiding publicly admitting defeat. Microsoft needs to focus on Vista gaming. Windows gaming is where the vast majority of Xbox developers would rather be doing their games on. Drop the hardware Microsoft, it's clearly not an area you any competence in. Move Xbox developers over to Vista exclusives, bring the useful parts of the online service over and leave the yearly charge behind. Let Nintendo and Sony battle each over console players and let pc gamers play games on their platform of choice, the pc.

Broken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18128812)

My Xbox has problems with the drive aswell, it often sticks when i push the eject button. I have to physically push on the bay door to get it to open. =/

though i havnt followed up with any kind of replacement, simply because its not worth the shipping. but it still scares me that down the road i will have to deal with the drive just completely not working any longer.

but there is this... i do however find the 360 to be my favorite of all the systems. its the most user friendly imo, and has the simplest/most efficent UI. its not complicated but not to basic either...

i bought a Wii then sold it. i just wish microsoft had the hardware to back the software. =/

Amount the machines where on (1)

DesertBlade (741219) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129032)

They ran a gaming center. How many hours a day where the machines on? Where they in cabinets? These are a huge factors.

Still that is a lot of failures.

Re:Amount the machines where on (2, Interesting)

Brigade (974884) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129764)

Exactly what I was thinking. It's almost statistically impossible for him to have purchased, and replaced, THAT many machines, and EVERY one failed on him, all due to faulty machines.

When I was working at Gamestop, people would call ALL the time for tech support for different things. A lot of calls were about overheating 360s .. and most of them had the damn things in a media cabinet. Non-techies don't understand the concept of INTAKE/EXHAUST when it comes to consumer electronics. OR they stick the power brick on carpet.

Believe it or not, I have a launch X360 that has had NO problems (aside from freezing when it was, duh, overheating during certain games - yes I had poor ventilation). Now I have my 360 inside my standing cabinet on the top shelf. I drilled an exhaust hole in the back and attatched an 80mm A/C fan I nabbed from a Sony PS2 Kiosk going in the garbage. I didn't bother with an intake fan (didn't have another fan and the cabinet isn't airtight)

After running my 360 for about 30 hours straight (Viva Pinata achievement) inside the cabinet with the glass door closed, it was still cool to the touch. It's just like the old tech support stories about the coffee cup holder, or the mouse/foot pedal .. a LARGE number of 'faulty machines' are due to plain ignorance or stupidity.

Oh noes! (3, Interesting)

Cervantes (612861) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129122)

While it does sound from TFA that he had a hard time of it, the article also has him complaining about all the time it took with tech support for each machine. A whole 20 minutes? They made him turn it off and back on? They actually did troubleshooting? ZOMG!

I'd rather have a competent tech on the other end of the phone who makes me walk through the basic steps to make sure it really is broken, rather than a tech who goes "Thanks for calling MS... it doesn't work?... ok, we'll send you a new one. Bye!". The former is a sign of a company that hires decent people to do their job well, the latter is a sign of a company that hires any schmuck off the street and then rewards him for having a 2 minute call length average.

And, speaking as someone who had to argue with 3 different techs at Telus to convince them that there was actually something called a "Default Gateway", and no, it wasn't a proprietary setting for the device I was connecting, and no, it wasn't 192.168.0.1 ... I'll take competent techs who make me check the basics any day.

All that said, he does sound like he got a bad batch. TFA mentions he bought the majority at one time, which could be a reason, but it also mentions that at least 4 of the machines were used in a gaming cafe. Machines take a lot of abuse there, whether you're keeping an eye on them or not, so again, I'm not surprised. Really, a different spin on the article should be "360 owner sends 7 defective units back to MS, MS replaces them and doesn't accuse him of breaking them himself". Really, many hardware vendors I've had to deal with get a little suspicious after you return items for the 3rd or 4th time. I actually had to threaten legal action against a graphic card remanufacturer in order to get them to replace my card after the 4th time their cheap fan died and fried the GPU, out of a batch of 5 I'd purchased.

Xbox at work (2, Funny)

andy314159pi (787550) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129212)

For his business, he had six machines ... and every one of them failed.
So, uh, where does this guy work, because I'd like to fill out an application.

Re:Xbox at work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129930)

-So, uh, where does this guy work, because I'd like to fill out an application.

Microsoft...

haha (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129494)

sounds like half the units I sell at Best Buy...... An entire shipment was bad...bout 20-30 units....poor guy that found out...he would get one home and come right back happened multiple times till we finally started opening them at the store. And this was right out of the box.

Compled hardware fails (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18129668)

Complex hardware from any manufacturer can fail. Unless you're talking abnormally high percentages I don't think this speaks to the quality of the company behind it.

It's what they DO after the failure that determines a good company in my book. Having to wait 2 weeks for a replacement system sounds absurd!

I had an early November PS3 fail 2 weeks ago (wouldn't detect the HDD sometimes when powering on). Sony overnighted me an empty box to return the unit, paid for overnight return shipping to them, and shipped a replacement to me the day they received it (overnight BTW). Total time was 3 days from when I called their support line.

To me that speaks volumes about the company standing behind the product.

Rental units... (1)

ecuador_gr (944749) | more than 7 years ago | (#18129928)

Rentals have high failure rates? Who would have thought!

20 min call for troubleshooting before RMA? Preposterous! Dell is always taking me at least 3 hours, MS techs must by lazy.

On another note it becomes more and more clear that in order to get something posted on /. it doesn't have to be smart, interesting, to the point or sometimes even factual, I just have to come up with something that makes MS look bad! And don't you start "welcome to slashdot n00b!" ;)

Is this even news? (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 7 years ago | (#18130010)

The article states the guy bought at least 4 of the units at launch, Microsoft has already made it clear there was a problem with a lot of launch units so is it really any suprise that this has happened? One replacement failed again but it doesn't state if this was one that was replaced earlier on and hence could be prone to the same fault.

Don't get me wrong it does indeed suck for the guy and it is a bit silly of MS to release with these problems (surely they must have known?) but the article sounds like it's trying to make something of an issue that's now largely done and dusted. It's a little like someone claiming they had 8 Wii motes all bought at release and that the straps all broke, perfectly realistic scenario but let's face it, is and issue that's now been and gone.

Wow, damage control... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18130946)

Looks like the apologists are out in force, defending up a storm!

Can't wait to see what people here will start posting once the same problem hits the PS3; expecting a 360*0.5 degree turn here....
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