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Download And Burn Movies Available Soon

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the oh-css-is-there-nothing-you-can't-do dept.

Encryption 97

An anonymous reader writes "According to an article from PC World, a source close to the CSS Managed Recording forum said that technology which allows movies to be downloaded and burned to blank DVDs, using the same content-protection system as commercial discs, received official approval on Thursday. 'The technology will require discs that are slightly different from the conventional DVD-Rs found in shops today. The burned discs will be compatible with the vast majority of consumer DVD players ... Despite Thursday's approval, services that allow consumers to legally download and burn movies in their own homes are unlikely to appear quickly. The DVD CCA said it will be initially restricted to professional uses. These might include kiosks in retail stores where consumers can purchase and burn discs in a controlled environment.'"

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Soon? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18225366)

I've been doing it for years.

Re:Soon? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18225378)

I'd post something witty, but then I'd be the one getting burned...

Re:Soon? (1)

slysithesuperspy (919764) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225408)

The companies making the movies should have been doing this for years. Why have they not?

Re:Soon? (3, Insightful)

uncleFester (29998) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225922)

Frankly, I don't get this great desire for direct-delivery, or downloadable, or burn-your-own type of delivery. Why? Well, hell.. you're already getting charged an arm + leg today for the media and its content.. so to make it better you're going to do more of the providor's work for them? You're going to use your bandwidth, burn to your media for the content? What kinda sense is that?

And further.. to continue the cries downloading is the way to go (especially in the middle of this HD-format battle we're in),instead of a shiny silvery thing (complete with its case, booklet, promo materials) we're going to be satisfied with a download direct to a black box? You think that box is going to have any to get that content out of it? Especially if the RIAA/Hollywood/Insert-Your-Favorite-Boogeyman-here , et al have their way about it?

I've been watching this trend with music (iTunes, etc..), I see people think it's the cat's balls for video.. and I simply don't get it. Or I'm to materialistic and prefer the tangible product in my hand compared to some stuff on a harddrive somewhere which is (imho) prone to higher levels of control or loss due to failure..

-r (or maybe it's just another sign i'm getting older.. :)

Re:Soon? (1)

SkyDude (919251) | more than 7 years ago | (#18227514)

I see your comments have been modded "insightful", and deservedly so.

Maybe when the entire nation is wired with fiber from end to end downloading might make sense. But even on the Comcast 8Mbps service I'm on, there's no way I'm tying up my connection to download possibly a 9GB movie. Subjectively, what movie in recent years would be worth it?

In the time it would take me to download and burn to disc, I could make the trip to the local Blockbuster three times over.

You get it alright, it's those infatuated with the thought of downloading that don't. Hey, if anyone wants a sample of what it'll be like, just fire up your usenet reader and find a movie file to download. Make sure you have your lunch and dinner standing by.

Re:Soon? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18228384)

You should try running a modern operating system such as Microsoft(R) Windows(R). I hear that with Windows, your computer can actually do more than one thing at a time! You can even open multiple TCP/IP connections and use them effectively, even if one of them is occupied with a high-throughput download. Truly, this 'Windows' innovation is of significant import.

Re:Soon? (1)

Firethorn (177587) | more than 7 years ago | (#18230560)

9GB is entirely doable over even my 2mb connection. I just have to work on it overnight, or when I'm at work, or otherwise not using it.

Sure, it'd be slower than driving to the store and getting it, but it'd actually tie up less of my time, as once I have it in the que I merely have to wait for it to be delivered.

Re:Soon? (1)

svunt (916464) | more than 7 years ago | (#18231400)

I have a friend in Sweden who justifies his downloading of usenet movies by explaining that it takes 4 times as long to walk to the video store as it does to download the film, and damn it's cold out!

Re:Soon? (1)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 7 years ago | (#18234928)

Well in Sweden ADSL comes in most towns in 24 Mbit/s flavours, and if you live in a larger city you might even have access to 100 Mbit/s fibre. I currently have access to 10/10 from the citywide network, or up to about 24/1 from ADSL. This is not unusual in this country to have a nice connection. I would hazard a guess it is more towards the norm.

Now, I have a video store around the corner. Maybe 2 minute walk. So no, I can not download a movie quicker than I could rent it. But the video store closest doesn't take card payment, so you would have to factor in a trip to the nearest ATM, which is another 5 minutes, and considerably out of my way.

Now, this might not be a shock since this is slashdot after all, but I don't go out that much. I am not to fond of the world outside my doors, for my own insane reasons. I sit by my computer most of the day, for work or hobby or a combination thereof, and I chat pretty much constantly to my girlfriend. I have no problem downloading anywhere from one to ten movies while I am doing this. If it where to slow down my computer, I could always leave it ticking on one of my others... this is slashdot after all.

So this service would definitely be more easy for me to use once it gets into our homes than say going to the video store. But would it get used? not by me. I don't see the need to download 9GB of material when I get a movie in decent viewing quality on about a tenth of that. If I want the extras and hyper quality of DVD, then I will order a dvd. They sell those on the internet as well you know, I can even get them delivered in my mailbox. And I wont have to pay for the blank discs, and I wont have to get upset at burns that error out and I can still download ten other movies that I just want to check out.

Re:Soon? (2, Interesting)

garcia (6573) | more than 7 years ago | (#18227522)

Or I'm to materialistic and prefer the tangible product in my hand compared to some stuff on a harddrive somewhere which is (imho) prone to higher levels of control or loss due to failure..

People think it's better until 52GB of their music collection vanishes from their system because they forgot to de-authorize their computers, their music player HD crashes, and they don't have any other backup medium.

People think it's better because EVERYONE else tells them it is. Yay, having an iPod is cool. Ooh, shiny store that, for most of the general public, requires you to use iTunes or an iPod to listen to their wares!

I'm all for downloadable content. The stuff that's free and lets me redownload it when I need to. Not something that ties me to one player, one piece of hardware, and links me to a group of people I can't stand while paying an arm and a leg for it while being told it's inexpensive.

Re:Soon? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18231252)

Frankly, I don't get this great desire for direct-delivery, or downloadable, or burn-your-own type of delivery. Why? Well, hell.. you're already getting charged an arm + leg today for the media and its content.. so to make it better you're going to do more of the providor's work for them? You're going to use your bandwidth, burn to your media for the content? What kinda sense is that?

That's the ironic thing about all the typical Slashdot-and-burn hatred for copyright: that's what you people have been clamoring to do all along! Of course it's doing "more of the provider's work for them". It's what you've been asking for since computers became PC!

It gets better when you realize that this is just manufacturing (something already getting outdated in this day of 1TB storage). What do you think you'll be doing if you get the right to copy stuff? Then you'll be doing manufacturing and distribution for them too. Your bandwidth, media and storage space, spreading their stuff.

Now it's a bad thing? Why? What has changed all of a sudden?

Does this mean that it was never about "outdated business models" after all?

Re:Soon? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18233276)

Damn it, Anonymous Coward saw through us.

I told you guys we should never have given uncleFestus the approval to speak for everyone on Slashdot, and now the cat is out of the bag.

Re:Soon? (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 7 years ago | (#18229030)

Film at 11...

Ohhhhh (5, Funny)

strack (1051390) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225368)

Swing and a miss. nonstandard dvds, nice try, please come again.

Re:Ohhhhh (0)

cp.tar (871488) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225390)

nonstandard dvds, nice try, please come again.

Well, technically, DVD-Rs are non-standard, since they are smaller than normal DVDs. (Of course, DVD-R is a standard unto its own, but nevertheless...)

Re:Ohhhhh (1)

TCM (130219) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225596)

Huh? Single-layer DVD is just as well a standard as Dual-layer DVD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvd [wikipedia.org]

Re:Ohhhhh (2, Informative)

Kjella (173770) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226502)

Swing and a miss. nonstandard dvds, nice try, please come again.

Well, if I remember the way CSS works correctly then it's simply a matter of DVDs where sector 0 is writable. That was the way they prevent 1:1 copies.
Pressed disks, DVD masters: Sector 0 CSS key, Sector 1-whatever data.
Consumer disks: Sector 0 all zeros, Sector 1-whatever data.

So it's not as much "non-standard" as it's probably "Will be used to burn a movie and we'll charge you as much as one"...

So we crack it again? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 7 years ago | (#18228174)

Yet another case of a legitimate use for cracking DRM. If I were to use this service, and the "special" blank DVDs cost a cent more, I'd simply crack the DVDs the way I already do and burn a non-DRM'd version.

The real obstacle would be if it requires special software -- which I'd imagine it does. But if they let us download anything resembling an ISO or a BIN/CUE, like we're used to, then this could actually be useful.

What? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18225370)

These might include kiosks in retail stores where consumers can purchase and burn discs in a controlled environment.
So, how is burning, ripping, and sharing... different than just sharing? Oh no, a $0.25 disc down the drain! Gotta buy DVD-RWs next time.

huh? (2, Interesting)

tomblag (1060876) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225396)

So, I go to a retail store to buy/download a dvd online - buy a special disk and burn it there ... instead of going to the dvd aisle? yea.....

Re:huh? (4, Insightful)

mumblestheclown (569987) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225406)

Umm, because now they can offer a much larger catalogue and you have even less excuse than ever for pirating something that you claim is rare / not available locally?

Re:huh? (1)

hack slash (1064002) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225742)

"Umm, because now they can offer a much larger catalogue and you have even less excuse than ever for pirating something that you claim is rare / not available locally?"

But the biggest hurdle of any new video/audio storage format is getting access to the much larger catalogue, if a copyright/distribution holder of a particular piece of work that's out of print in every currently available format says "no" or it's held up in legal issues (like for example "The Keep" which I want on DVD instead of my original VHS & 4:3 satellite recording on DVDR) then that title will still hold it's rare status.
And if a company that has copyright/distribution rights on a large amount of well known titles says no then the new format's future will look slim.

Re:huh? (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226030)

Umm, because now they can offer a much larger catalogue and you have even less excuse than ever for pirating something that you claim is rare / not available locally?


I've never used the excuse that I download a movie via bittorrent because it's "rare/not available locally". I do it because I hate DRM, Copy Protection, and the way the Military/Intellectual Property/Industrial Complex has hurt the very art forms I love most.

Yawn... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18225400)

The burned discs will be compatible with the vast majority of consumer DVD players ...

This is a lie. And if I learned something from history (and e.g. Sony advertising), then that this is a lie...

The DVD CCA said it will be initially restricted to professional uses. These might include kiosks in retail stores where consumers can purchase and burn discs in a controlled environment.

That's not professional use. It's a business model that will fail. If I learned something from history, then that this is one of the business models which fail because you don't confront paying customers with prison-vocabulary like "controlled environment".

Legal in own home? (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18225422)

who the hell do they think they are? I SAY WHAT IS LEGAL IN MY OWN HOME.

so yes, music and video piracy is legal, so is smoking pot.

The corporates can just get fucked.

Re:Legal in own home? (4, Insightful)

Goaway (82658) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226262)

I SAY WHAT IS LEGAL IN MY OWN HOME.

The preferred argument of wife-beaters everywhere!

Re:Legal in own home? (3, Insightful)

lhbtubajon (469284) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226830)

Mods, this is NOT a troll. It is a really good point.

At what point does the "legal in my own home" argument fail to hold water? And if it fails to work at some point, what does that say about the entire argument?

For example, is it legal to shoot heroin in your house? How about meth? Is it legal to pass counterfeit bills to your drug dealer? Can you deprive him of liberty if he calls you on it? Is murder legal in your own home? How about arson to hide the evidence of the previous "legal" activities?

If your argument fails at some point in that chain, does it continue to work for your original "legal in my own home" actions?

Re:Legal in own home? (2)

Odiumjunkie (926074) | more than 7 years ago | (#18227020)

> For example, is it legal to shoot heroin in your house? How about meth?

It sure as hell should be.

How about "victimless" or "consensual" crimes should be legal in your own home? In fact, how about we just get rid of consensual crimes altogether? [mcwilliams.com]

Re:Legal in own home? (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 7 years ago | (#18227428)

I agree - I'm not hurting anybody with these pipe bombs I build and sell in home. Everybody involved in the transaction consents to me making and selling them!

Re:Legal in own home? (1)

hobdes (678049) | more than 7 years ago | (#18230262)

Oh come on, that's a complete troll! Obviously, if any action has (or can reasonably be expected to have) negative consequences to another person then it should be watched over by the state. That's the whole point of law: to establish the limits of interactions between individuals. It doesn't matter if it's within your own home or not--if others are impacted.

But if there are no negative consequences to others (or the expected consequences fall below some minimum "noise" level) then the state should not interfere. Establishing these criteria is where law gets interesting.

Anyway, thanks for trolling. It's helped me crystallize my thoughts on the issue.

Re:Legal in own home? (1)

lhbtubajon (469284) | more than 7 years ago | (#18230832)

You're welcome.

I'm assuming from your statement that you have decided that pirating music and movies in your home constitutes "no harm", or at least not enough harm to invoke the laws.

Does that mean that it's legal for you to download pirated copies, AND legal for others to make them available to you to download, assuming they're in their homes? Does the fact that the activity uses the Internet to leave your respective homes enter into the equation? Suppose you decide to operate Pirate Bay from your home office. At what point can there be considered "harm" to the copyright holders, assuming they don't approve of your activities?

I don't think the **AAs are taking the right tack in their efforts to relate to their customers, and I wish they would open up a LOT. But I don't buy this notion that, just because you do it in your house, you aren't committing some kind of harm. Ostensibly, laws are put in place to prevent harm. Are we to let you decide when you've done so and when you haven't? How about your neighbor, or that jerk down the street?

If you want to do these things AND feel warm and fuzzy about yourself, change the damned law.

Where's Conan? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18225428)

Seriously, I was totally expecting to see him with a weird collar and a flashlight. And LaBamba going.....
IN THE YEAR 2000

Great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18225450)

Great! I know more than a few people who have had the damndest time trying to figure out how to pay money for internet downloads. It's a very difficult problem. Most of the time, putting a credit card into a disk slot or DVD drive results in calamity (CD drives fare slightly better).

Up until now, these people have had to deal with the soul-rending implications of not being able to pay money for downloads.

Maybe, in time, a similar system could be put into place for all the porn we wish we didn't have to download for free. Would it help the economy?

I don't get it (5, Insightful)

kniazvadim (628809) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225472)

So I am going to walk into Best Buy, walk up to a kiosk, pick the movie I want to watch, wait 5-10 minutes for it to download and burn on this special DVD, pay for it, and walk out? As opposed to me just grabbing the movie off the shelf and skipping the burning-downloading part?

Re:I don't get it (2, Funny)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225512)

There is apparently a large gap between reality and media execs. Nothing really new here.

Tom

Re:I don't get it (1)

rozz (766975) | more than 7 years ago | (#18235874)

So I am going to walk into Best Buy, walk up to a kiosk, pick the movie I want to watch, wait 5-10 minutes for it to download and burn on this special DVD, pay for it, and walk out? As opposed to me just grabbing the movie off the shelf and skipping the burning-downloading part?

There is apparently a large gap between reality and media execs. Nothing really new here.

not so fast ... how about you browse the collection from home, you order the cd-s/dvd-s and you go to the store and pick them when you have some time? .. or get em by mail? ... or you browse the collection from an in-store kiosk or just as usual from a shelf .. enter your choices using some terminal .. and have the stuff mailed later.

in the end.. this is just an idea, a technology ... it's is neither inherently bad nor good .. just wait till they implement it and start selling stuff based on that .. then you will know if it's good or bad for you

Re:I don't get it (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#18236004)

So we should call ahead, wait 15, 20, 30, ??? minutes, then drive [likely] to the store, pick it up, and drive back. As opposed to downloading it at home, watching and saving the trip to the store, which for most folk is what they're trying to avoid in the first place.

Also, consider the distribution of bandwidth. Assuming we're fetching say 5GB [average] movies. To download the movie in 15 mins you'd need to sustain a rate of 5.68MiB/sec which is fairly high for consumer net connections. Now suppose you are in a city of 50,000 and will likely have to serve, say 50 customers at any given time during peak hours. That's 284.4MiB/sec sustained.

I don't know about you, but I don't know which non-peering service can even get close to that. And even if you did have a 2.3Gigabit/sec connection to the Net, the host (e.g. movie place) would have at least the same, but in reality a lot more (think about it, multiple stores hitting the same site). More realistically, the download will take 3 or so days. In the same time, you could just order the damn movie from Amazon, have it sent to your house, have watched it already and moved on with your life.

Where this makes sense IS the home, where you can say start a download on Monday, and have a movie for Friday night or whatever.

Tom

Re:I don't get it (1)

rozz (766975) | more than 7 years ago | (#18237782)

So we should call ahead, wait 15, 20, 30, ??? minutes, then drive [likely] to the store, pick it up, and drive back. As opposed to downloading it at home, watching and saving the trip to the store, which for most folk is what they're trying to avoid in the first place.

multiple lvls of misunderstanding in your answer.. i guess my point was not clear enough :(

first of all .. i mentioned a second option in my post - choose discs from home and have them mailed .. so, no leaving the darling couch, no trip to the store and i dont get your point.

second .. the GP compared this tech with an EXISTING "technology", the store-shelf experience and concluded it is worst .. i only put the "browse home, buy at the store" samplé to demonstrate it *may* also be better.

third .. you are comparing it with a DREAM technology .. i am not aware of any online store that lets you dload and burn your movies and play them anytime on (almost) any commodity hardware... you cannot say "this tech suks" only because it is worst than some DreamTech.

and last .. the main point of my post was at the end.. all those samples above dont really matter .. it's just a new tech and you, me or X, we dont know how is gonna be implemented and used .. and we should keep comments like "bullshit tech" for after we see&experience it live...

Re:I don't get it (2, Interesting)

little4ce (1071126) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225566)

I think that this will reduce considerably the costs for the distribution of a movie: think shrinkwrapping, copies of the movie that sit on shelves with years, shelve real estate, etc. I believe that they want to decrease their costs, not to improve anything major for the consumer. The only benefit I would see is that when you go to such a facility you can get any movie available from those retailers, no more "DVD not in stock" etc.

So I am going to walk into Best Buy, walk up to a kiosk, pick the movie I want to watch, wait 5-10 minutes for it to download and burn on this special DVD, pay for it, and walk out? As opposed to me just grabbing the movie off the shelf and skipping the burning-downloading part?

A DVD costs pennies to make/transport.... (3, Insightful)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225860)

>"I think that this will reduce considerably the costs for the distribution of a movie"

A DVD costs pennies to make/transport (I get plenty of them for free with magazines/etc.). Installing all the hardware/infrastructure needed for this system will cost a fortune.

Re:A DVD costs pennies to make/transport.... (1)

Firethorn (177587) | more than 7 years ago | (#18230598)

But it would allow a much larger movie selection to be fitted into a given area of shelf/floor space, which does cost money in stores.

It'd answer many of the problems with finding movies that the store doesn't happen to have in stock.

Need more imagination. (5, Interesting)

vhold (175219) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225602)

Perhaps the advantage is that you'll be able to gain access to a giant catalog of movies as opposed to simply what is in stock? Furthermore, locations could offer this huge selection of movies without even having stock?

A good example would be a kiosk at a supermarket. You could come in, choose a movie, swipe your credit card, start the burn process, when it's done, it could set it aside until you swipe your credit card again, after you are done shopping. It could use DVD-RW and predict demand for popular movies and keep recycling disks, so that if you pick a popular movie it doesn't even have to burn it. It could do this all through the night and at 10 minutes a disk (conservative estimate) could produce 144 DVDs a day. More likely it'd be closer to double that.

Even more obvious is that it could be integrated into an online service that would let you choose movies and guarantee their availability when you go to the store. Browse online then simply pick it up when you go for groceries. Convenience and instant gratification.

Re:Need more imagination. (1)

Kijori (897770) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225804)

If it's popular it's going to need to be far more than 144 DVDs a day - more like 1000+. Searching Google gives a ballpark figure of 30,000 customers each day for a larger supermarket (taken from Morrisons' data). If this is convenient and has a large enough library to pull from, at a reasonable price, people will make good use of it.

Re:Need more imagination. (2, Insightful)

vhold (175219) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225846)

Well, the nice thing is that it could just have more drives and produce more output at a rather low incremental cost to the machine. If it rents out a 1000 DVDs a day, that'd be pretty extreme. The machine would pay for itself in less then a month?

Re:Need more imagination. (1)

Kijori (897770) | more than 7 years ago | (#18228126)

If the DVDs are cheap enough, renting out 1000 a day - at least some days - isn't really that extreme at all; of course the chances of the MPAA allowing prices to drop at all are fairly remote...

Re:Need more imagination. (1)

vanyel (28049) | more than 7 years ago | (#18227986)

Perhaps the advantage is that you'll be able to gain access to a giant catalog of movies as opposed to simply what is in stock? Furthermore, locations could offer this huge selection of movies without even having stock?


A definite advantage to the store to expand the inventory without wasting space. A psychological advantage for stupid media execs who think that "using the same content-protection system as commercial discs" prevents piracy. To the knowledgeable consumer, it's massive waste of money the studios could turn into profit by just letting people download watermarked content. Then make sharing a watermarked file a parking ticket offense, and sharing a previously watermarked file a felony (i.e. where you stripped it out with a clear intent to distribute rather than just sharing it with a few friends like you would a real dvd). But no, rather than being interested in profit, the media execs are really interested in the illusion of control.

Re:Need more imagination. (1)

vhold (175219) | more than 7 years ago | (#18229014)

To that I would simply say way more people are watching movies on DVD players then on computers. There are movie download services.

Re:Need more imagination. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18230140)

Perhaps the advantage is that you'll be able to gain access to a giant catalog of movies as opposed to simply what is in stock? Furthermore, locations could offer this huge selection of movies without even having stock?

You know....like Bittorrent!

Re:I don't get it (1)

Silver Sloth (770927) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225616)

wait 5-10 minutes for it to download
Please, please tell me which bittorrent client and DVD buring software you use to download and burn several Gb in five minutes!

Re:I don't get it (1)

Kijori (897770) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225770)

None - if it's a kiosk it can have terabyte of storage right there with the most popular movies stored and a high-speed link to the main repository - say 10MB/s (ISPs will happily give massive discounts if you can tell them exactly where you'll be connecting to, so the price will be low).

Re:I don't get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18226180)

riiiiiight. there's no way in hell the MIAA will let terabytes of their blockbusters (r.g. their most popular and highest-demand movies) be distributed to every fucking walmart in the country. the possibility of leaking them is just too high. they will just have them download them on demand, meaning that you either have to reserve them beforehand via internet or wait a good 20 minutes. and if these machines are anything like the autmated "bring-you-photo-camera-chips-we-burn-your-picture s-onto-a-CD"-thingies in the grocery-shops, they will be out of service for 1/3 of the time and rebooting every few hours, preferably in the middle of a disc-write :P

Re:I don't get it (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226924)

They can have the download files with encryption and decrypt them on burn.

Re:I don't get it (2, Interesting)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225950)

So I am going to walk into Best Buy, walk up to a kiosk, pick the movie I want to watch, wait 5-10 minutes for it to download and burn on this special DVD, pay for it, and walk out? As opposed to me just grabbing the movie off the shelf and skipping the burning-downloading part?

Obviously if you're looking for some popular movie it will be available "Pre-burned." But with this system you can order anything you like. If you're at a mall you could continue shopping and pick it up at the end. And presumably it wouldn't be long before you could order it from home and have it waiting for you when you arrive.

But the biggest bonus will be that because the producers don't have to produce and deliver so much inventory, which is just a back-breaking cost in retail, that the final cost to the consumer will be significantly less than current DVDs. Hahaha ignore that last part. Sometimes I just crack myself up.

Re:I don't get it (1)

lcohiomatty86 (985176) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226126)

you forgot the part about the fact that the disk doesnt have the nice movie design on the top of it, nor the fact that you get a case with the movie.. now if you can buy a few movies.. burn em.. and shop while you wait.. (mayby like dropping off a prescription of w/e at walgreens) and these movies are several dollars cheaper at elast than their "normal" counterparts, this deal could be pretty good, espescially is the library to choose from is much greater than what is normally stocked on the shelves

Re:I don't get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18226380)

So I am going to walk into Best Buy...

No, you're going to walk into a store that doesn't already have thousands of DVDs on the shelves. Can't you think?

Re:I don't get it (1)

thePsychologist (1062886) | more than 7 years ago | (#18228484)

Well, firstly it won't take very long to download. It probably will already be downloaded. Secondly, aside from knowing that it's there, you won't notice it. A store could have most of the movies downloaded already.

This is really just a shift of production in location. The movies are now being burned in a store instead of at some production facility. So far, technologically, there's nothing to talk about, except now that when bandwidth becomes cheaper in the near future, and DVD-R disks become cheaper as well, they'll want to have a delivery system similar to i-Tunes for the home user, where the iPod is replaced by a blank special DVD-R.

Currently no one would download 4.7-10+ GB of data. It's the waiting part that won't go through now for people at home. It might even take the amount of time to go shopping, but when I go shopping it feels like I'm doing something to get a movie, but knowing that it's slowly chugging away, loading on my computer is a show stopper.

Conclusion, reduced distribution costs, since the implementation only has to happen once, and then movies will never have to be shipped again, and a possible future movie distribution system when bandwidth becomes cheaper.

CSS?? (2, Interesting)

DigitAl56K (805623) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225486)

using the same content-protection system as commercial discs

So why bother? It's been broken for over 7 years. Unless...

The technology will require discs that are slightly different from the conventional DVD-Rs found in shops today ... ahhh, this will maybe prevent ripping? Or will there be media taxes imposed? Will I need to install special drivers to burn to or read from the discs? Would such drivers, if required, govern my PC playback and 'secure' access to the discs?

Re:CSS?? (1)

Inverted Intellect (950622) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225504)

Slightly different? Well then... by definition, these will probably not even be DVDs at all...

There're already a large number of DRMd CDs sold in stores which don't fit the definition, as outlined by the standard, of CDs...

Re:CSS?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18225610)

Currently you can't burn disks that use css because the part of a disk the keys are in are not writeable for writeable DVDs.
This was probably meant to stop bit for bit copying. So they will need to do something if they are still planning on using
css on these disks.

Re:CSS?? (2, Interesting)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226498)

Pretty ironic isn't it? They went to a great deal of trouble forking the DVD-R from DVD so CSS keys couldn't be written. Now they'll need to go to even more trouble hacking it to put them back in.

And all to support a protection mechanism which can be broken trivially with DVD Decrypter.

Another disc format ? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18225510)


computer store conversation

customer: hello, my son says i need some blank dvds for my holiday video
Salesman: certainly sir which would you require ?
customer: iam not sure
salesman: well is it DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-HD, DVD-RAM, DVD+RW, DVD-RW, DVD+DL, DVD-DL, DVDRW+DL, DVDRW-DL ?
customer: erm iam not sure DVDR i was told
salesman: ok lets say its DVD-R what speed would you like?
customer: ??
salesman: 1-4x, 2-8x or 4-16x
customer: ???
salesman: and would it be an Organic layer based disc or Gold archival format ?
customer: forget it i'll just have a box of VHS tapes please

Re:Another disc format ? (3, Insightful)

speculatrix (678524) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226320)

customer: forget it i'll just have a box of VHS tapes please
Salesman: would you like Sony, TDK, Memorex or own brand
Customer: er, Sony
Salesman: what grade would you like? XB, XBR, XBR-E
... ad nauseam ...

Re:Another disc format ? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#18227882)

What shops do you go to where there's actually a Salesman talking to you? I'd be happy if I found in the average shop where you can get those good someone who can rub enough brain cells against each other to form a legible sentence, left alone finding someone who actually knows just what they're selling there.

Usually I'm standing in front of those miles of different media, pondering, considering and finally choosing the wrong kind.

Re:Another disc format ? (1)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 7 years ago | (#18227784)

This is why I hate format wars. When the customer goes to the store, he should just have one thing to say: "I need an extra n GigaBytes of storage added to my home server."

(Ok, this is where you insert the joke about the salesman asking whether he wants USB or Firewire or ethernetted-NAS. *sigh* Damn, you people...)

Re:Another disc format ? (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#18229358)

And when we all have gigabit links to the home, we just click "add n gigs storage to my account" on our storage provider and let them add it to the bill.

Then when we really need to pick up a physical item, we can hop in our flying car and get it.

unwanted technology (1)

2fakeu (443153) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225578)

i just don't understand, why those stupid companies (yes there seem to be more of them) constantly work on innovations no one really wants or cares about? is the machinery that mindless or are the people in charge ignorant? maybe they got too much money, so they can't imagine, that there's others out there that are willing to pay horrendous amounts of money for the same shit over and over again. ... i just don't know, how itunes could ever become such a huge success. do people really realize, what they are doing, when buying from that store? are they aware of the implications, that in a few hours, all those songs are lost, because their ipods turned to dust and the music they bought went down with their only way of listening to it?

i think there's a general lack of awareness regarding DRM and competing technologies. it doesn't seem that this will change in the near future and just as with sony's (already almost forgotten) rootkit disaster (time really seems to heal all wounds). the public outcry will take a while to surface, because "the mob" isn't aware of it now.

Convenience for who? (3, Insightful)

JonnyCalcutta (524825) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225604)

All this saves is retail storage space - ie it is convenient for the studios and the stores because they don't need the same warehouse and shelf space. Its not convenient for me. I can already walk to the Global Video 50 yards from my house and buy (or rent) DVDs. Except now, if its not a popular choice, I have to wait at a booth until a 4GB file downloads.

It just reinforces in my mind that consumers are merely obstacles between the studios and their money, and technology is merely a lubricant to ease the movement of money from us to them. Nothing else matters - in fact anything else is an obstacle.

and available for Linux? (1)

gevmage (213603) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225760)

This will, of course, be available for open source software users in the quarter after hell freezes over.

Price (1)

zepo1a (958353) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225762)

These new MPAA approved DVD-R(W) Discs will be available for the low low price of only 29.99 a disc. With 80% of the revenue being kicked back to the MPAA by the disc maker

What a bargin! LOLz

Awesom3 7p? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18225764)

Waste of money. (5, Interesting)

Purity Of Essence (1007601) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225828)

Pressing real discs is much cheaper than burning DVD recordables. If you are dealing in quantities over just a few hundred, real replication is the faster, more reliable, and more economical solution. This idea makes no sense for the consumer or the business owner and there is nothing convenient about it. The only possible good that can come out of it is the increased availability of obscure DVD titles that there is currently no retail shelf space for. But it's never going to happen because this business model doesn't make sense for any business that is interested in volume: a requirement in the retail media channel. Too much overhead in terms of time, equipment, and pissed off customers stuck with useless or failing DVD recordable discs. The concept will fail before obscure titles ever are considered for this kind of duplication.

Re:Waste of money. (1)

blackest_k (761565) | more than 7 years ago | (#18236098)

Isn't this system similar to the print on demand systems that were hyped a few years ago? anyone ever seen one of these machines in real life?
  I guess DVD production is a simpler task but I can't imagine it will be successful.

downloading and burning at your own place? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18225870)

i do this allready, why would I travel to best buy to do it?

I don't get it (2, Insightful)

fluch (126140) | more than 7 years ago | (#18225888)

...it is already now possible to easily rip and copy DVDs, so why even bother to protect the images. Sell the downloadable images for half the price and let people burn them! What do you gain by "protecting" them?!

Anyone think... (3, Insightful)

Darundal (891860) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226182)

...that perhaps this isn't supposed to succeed? Think about it; the studios want this to happen. First, they say "downloadable and burnable movies for the masses!" Second, they come up with a business model designed to fail and a process designed to be less convenient for the consumer. Third, sales end up in the gutter. Fourth, they discontinue offering movies in this manner. Fifth, anytime someone starts talking about how movies should we should be able to download movies and burn them to discs, the studios point at this and say that the model is unfeasable. Sixth, they are able to label almost anyone who has a movie on a disc that wasn't burned by them as a pirate.

they have not let go of their strangle hold yet (2, Insightful)

v1 (525388) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226436)

The technology will require discs that are slightly different from the conventional DVD-Rs found in shops today

You can bet those disks, which cost them a nickel to make, will cost you $7 apiece. They are not going to stop robbing us, they are just trying to make it less obvious.

Consumer? (1)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226468)

What's the difference between a consumer DVD player and, e.g., an enterprise DVD player? Or a "prosumer" DVD player? Are they able to ignore regional settings and have a CSS licence or something?

There are so many unwarranted uses of the word "consumer" in TFS and TFA it isn't funny.

Re:Consumer? (2, Insightful)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226550)

I don't think they're as smart as that. And most of the people involved will see it as an interesting technical project to make drives and disks with writeable CSS (if they are engineers), or a chance to sell some of their drives/disks at a massive markup compared to normal DVD ons (if they are sales guys). And the people at the top will go through the motions of testing a new distribution method.

The requirement that people burn in stores rather than at home is inevitable once they decided to use non standard disks with writeable CSS. Unfortunately, that will probably make this scheme sink like DivX.

Re:Consumer? (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226580)

Well, I know in the beginning there were special burners that could write to sector 0, and special disks where sector 0 is writable, for the CSS key. I used to believe at least that it was a double lock-in, that consumer burners couldn't write to sector 0 and consumer disks had sector 0 all zeross so you couldn't make a 1:1 copy of commercial disks. Not that it matters anymore though.

Re:Consumer? (1)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#18226674)

Well, I don't know if any burners exist that can write to sector 0, but I do know that a DVD press can certainly do so, and since you'd have to be insane to burn all the copies of a DVD you're publishing, companies and people both use DVD presses to make mass copies. Since the only people who would also use CSS are the larger companies who don't feel the CSS and macrovision licencing fees are a waste of money (despite the fact that they are), they're also the same people using DVD presses.

Re:Consumer? (1)

Purity Of Essence (1007601) | more than 7 years ago | (#18228598)

Those kinds of burners existed in the early days of DVD recording, designed for authoring, but they fell out of favor pretty quickly. And I can tell you that there are a lot of DVDs being pressed without CSS and Macrovision. In fact I'd wager there are several times as many unencrypted DVD productions getting pressed than Hollywood titles in any given year (more productions albeit not more in shear volume of discs). Getting DVDs pressed is dirt cheap at just over a dollar a disc with art, case, insert, and shrink wrap for small quantities, 1000 units being the usual minimum order. Even if you are doing only a few hundred discs it's worth it to just get a thousand pressed anyway -- possibly wasteful but you get a better product for a better unit price.

Umm okay? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18227046)

If you are going to be in a professional environment, why the hell would you want to sit and wait for a disc to be burned? Let's say you're at your local shopping mall, chances are that you'll be within sight of a Sam Goody, FYE, or Suncoast store...if you're going to buy a movie, you might as well buy it in retail packaging.

Why own? (3, Insightful)

pacalis (970205) | more than 7 years ago | (#18227314)

Most dvd's aren't watched more than once, and with increasing streaming services, why would I want to pay full price for these?


Still, for those rare dvd's one does want to own, why would you want a shit burned DVD with some crap injet label instead of a slick case with insert?

Re:Why own? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18237760)

Why do you care about the case? It's a bit of pressed plastic! Do the bright colors entice you or something?
If they really matter to you I'll sell you my DVD cases for $5 each.

Yet another example of too little too late (1)

JustNiz (692889) | more than 7 years ago | (#18227414)

When will the MPAA realise their existing monopoly-based sales model doesn't work any more?
They should do something innovative instead of trying to release pointless and unwanted variants of the old sales model.

I say this is pointless because anyone with a dvd burner and a subscription to netflix or blockbuster can already do more than this 'new concept' is offering. Furthermore they can still use standard media, and it probably costs a lot less per copy.

Hmm. (1)

Vegeta99 (219501) | more than 7 years ago | (#18228334)

I saw this a few years ago ('02-'03) at a Sheetz store in Williamsport, PA. It wasn't there for long. You could go to the thing, pick a movie, and get the DVD a few hours later, I believe is how it worked.

Sorry bucko, Blockbuster is faster. (They made you return the video).

I would pay... (1)

Abuzar (732558) | more than 7 years ago | (#18228612)

I would pay $2-$3 per movie, especially if it is rare content. I don't care so much for popular movies or new releases, but there are a lot of fringe films that I would love to have the opportunity to purchase. Since I watch 1 or 2 films a day, the industry could make $90-$135 from me alone, which is way more than the $0 they're getting now, because the only convenient distribution channel for most of these films is bittorrent right now. Because of the nature of bittorrent, pr0n slides in a lot easier than fringe films, so there is a need... someone fill it?

Behind the times.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18228810)

This article is a little irrelevent, since CinemaNow.com has been offering this service to the public for almost a year. Check out their 'Burn to DVD' section, it works, even if the studios won't give them enough content in this format. It takes time to change the studios minds, but they will eventually.

Good thinking (1)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 7 years ago | (#18230098)

These might include kiosks in retail stores where consumers can purchase and burn discs in a controlled environment.

Because teenagers and college kids working in kiosks will prevent their friends and peers from making unauthorized duplications of any film without the express written consent of the MPAA, Skywalker Studios, and George Lucas.

Looking back in time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18230428)

Every time I see an article like this, it's like looking back 10 years into the past. Wow, we're almost able to download movies from the internet and watch them on our DVD players! This is breaking news!

People have been doing that for years now. Sure, it's not legal, but I'll be damned if I'm going to wait for these companies to get their act together and provide a legitimate service to allow me to do what I've been able to do already since the turn of the millennium. I'm also not about to buy special (read: more expensive) blank DVDs just to burn their special copy-protected crap, which will only serve to restrict my use of the finished disc.

How do these people expect to catch up to piracy when what they're offering isn't anywhere near as convenient, is much more expensive, and still attempts to take away peoples' rights regarding what they can do with the product?

Almost a Good Idea.... (1)

Anna Merikin (529843) | more than 7 years ago | (#18232402)

A Modest Proposal

Seems to me a better way to do this would be simply to sell two kinds of DVDs in retail stores, including a new kind that gives the RIAA a fee in place of royalties in exchange for the granting of rights to download and burn any kind of copyrighted material onto that disk anywhere. This fee, of course, would be added to the cost of the DVD the consumer pays.

So those who want the RIAA to get their pound of flesh can do so and burn with a clear legal conscience, and those who prefer to pirate can buy the cheaper DVDs we are already using.

This would require the RIAA to monitor all P2P downloads so the royalties can be divided pro rata to the artists due them. But since they already seem to be monitoring DLs, it would be of no significant added cost to them.

Re:Almost a Good Idea.... (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 7 years ago | (#18235370)

Seems to me a better way to do this would be simply to sell two kinds of DVDs in retail stores, including a new kind that gives the RIAA a fee in place of royalties in exchange for the granting of rights to download and burn any kind of copyrighted material onto that disk anywhere. This fee, of course, would be added to the cost of the DVD the consumer pays.

So those who want the RIAA to get their pound of flesh can do so and burn with a clear legal conscience, and those who prefer to pirate can buy the cheaper DVDs we are already using.

This would require the RIAA to monitor all P2P downloads so the royalties can be divided pro rata to the artists due them. But since they already seem to be monitoring DLs, it would be of no significant added cost to them.

It's already like this in Canada, except for the 'optional' part and any significant distribution to artists. Right now, you have to pay an extra tax for every recordable CD and DVD.

Right now, the law as interpreted by a judge in Ontario is that since people are paying this tax, that it covers any downloading that a person does.

Except, the CRIA [Canadian version of the RIAA] also wants to sue people for uploading or downloading files. The CRIA is currently busy buying off the federal minister responsible for this area of the law, so that we ALSO have to pay a significant extra tax on devices like iPods, as well as retaining the existing taxes on recordable media, AND also make it so the CRIA can also sue you for uploading or downloading music. So, everyone has to pay a tax because they might be sharing music, and if they are found to be sharing music, they have to pay again. Nothing like having your cake and eating it too...

Techological progress (1)

velco (521660) | more than 7 years ago | (#18235182)

... is what I call it - we used to burn books, now we'll burn ruch multimedia content!!!

You Can Do This Already (1)

Movie Downloads (963478) | more than 7 years ago | (#18235664)

The EZTakes Movie Downloads Store [eztakes.com] has been live for over a year and has over 2,000 downloadable/burnable DVDs online. They don't use DRM and all of their movies are licensed from the content owners.

A blast from the past! (1)

Chelloveck (14643) | more than 7 years ago | (#18237088)

I remember Blockbuster was going to be providing burn-on-demand VHS tapes Real Soon Now, about 10 years ago... I see this having almost exactly the same chance of becoming a reality.

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