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Turkey Censors YouTube

CmdrTaco posted more than 7 years ago | from the tastes-like-chicken dept.

Censorship 482

FM Reader writes "After a controversial mock-up video reportedly submitted by a Greek member about Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the founder of modern Turkey, Turkish courts ordered the national ISPs to ban the online video service, YouTube. YouTube hostnames are currently redirected at the DNS level to a page that announces the court order."

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482 comments

The Real Reason (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262086)

The real reason it was censored was because the Turkish fundamentalist groups were sent a link of this video [youtube.com] .

If you're debating on clicking on that link, don't worry, there's only one foul word in that entire 2 minute clip!

Re:The Real Reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262704)

If you're debating on clicking on that link, don't worry, there's only one foul word in that entire 2 minute clip!
...and its mother.

Headache for EU negotiators (4, Insightful)

Reverse Gear (891207) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262092)

I think this is about the stupidest thing I have heard from Turkey for a long time (not that I hear much from there). Seems the courts and government doesn't agree on if Turkey should work on tying to become part of the European Union.
Things like these are going to be a problem a serious problem in any negotiations, I can hardly think of any way to demonstrate more clearly that freedom of speech is not something that is not practiced in Turkey.

Thinking about it I find it a bit ironic that the country I live in, Denmark (member of the EU) have done exactly the same thing with allofmp3 that Turkey now did to youtube, yet Denmark is probably quite well known for their so called defense of freedom of speech, latest demonstrated by some drawings of Muhammed.
I guess the reasons behind the two court ordered bannings are a bit different.
In Turkey the reasons being nationalistic and religious, while it in Denmark is the music industries (and according to them also the artists) interest and money that is the reason (one could maybe then start arguing that we just have a different kind of "state religion" in Denmark, I will keep out of that discussion).

Anyhow I kind of understand if the Turkish negotiators will think of the EU as talking with two tongues if they start telling them that Turkey can't do this kind of thing if they want to be part of the EU.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (2, Insightful)

geoffspear (692508) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262146)

If you think that the "right" to purchase copyrighted music from another country without copyright laws is a "free speech" issue, anything else you say probably isn't very credible.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (1, Informative)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262266)

If you think that the "right" to purchase copyrighted music from another country without copyright laws is a "free speech" issue

While it is debatable whether AllofMP3 was following them correctly, the Russian Federation does have copyright laws.

This is very European of them. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262168)

This is actually quite in line with what many nations in the EU would do. I mean, just yesterday we had a story posted to Slashdot about France apparently outlawing the filming of violence [slashdot.org] . Leading EU member nations like Germany, France and Austria also have rather draconian "hate speech" legislation. Censorship is a European way of life. Most Europeans like to think that they're free to speak their mind, but in reality that's not the case.

Very American of them too... (2, Interesting)

FatSean (18753) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262240)

The French want to outlaw the filming of violence by non-journalists but allows for sexual content...and the Murricans want to up the violence but censor anything vaguely sexual.

Turkey is the worst of both worlds it seems! Turkey....you're never going to join the EU this way. Probably best for the EU too, Turkey's economy is not so hot.

Re:Very American of them too... (0)

cryfreedomlove (929828) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262356)

FatSean,

I'm not sure what motivated you to drag the Americans into this. The story stands well on its own without using it as a yet another opportunity to criticize the USA.

Is YouTube going to be banned in the USA? Which government agency in the USA has the means to do that? Can you be specific?

Re:Very American of them too... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262378)

Which government agency in the USA has the means to do that?
With Bush at the wheel, any agency. And if no agency has the means, he'll create a new agency just for that.

In Soviet USA, government crushes YOU!

Re:This is very European of them. (5, Informative)

Da Fokka (94074) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262298)

Don't be ridiculous. Hate speechs laws in (some) EU countries might be harsher than in the US, but these laws are not in the same league as what Turkey is pulling off here. And when critisizing free speech in Europe, you might want to keep in mind cases like The Fishman Affidavit [spaink.net] , in which the Dutch supreme court ruled that the right of the public to know about the practises of Scientology superceded the intellectual property of Scientology of their teachings.

Re:This is very European of them. (3, Insightful)

giorgiofr (887762) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262512)

Nonsense. My friggin constitution states I'll go to jail if I praise the wrong political party. I think this is even worse than what Turkey is doing.

Re:This is very European of them. (3, Informative)

Da Fokka (94074) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262670)

I don't know which constitution you are referring but assuming you are European there are two possibilities:
  1. You live in Belarus.
  2. You live in one of those countries where racist parties could be outlawed.

Although I don't believe that outlawing *any* opinion is a good idea, by no means is that worse than Turkey, where someone was convicted to a jail sentence when he referred to terrorist/freedom fighter(*) Ocalan as 'Mr. Ocalan'.

(*) Depends on whom you ask.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (1)

julesh (229690) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262186)

Thinking about it I find it a bit ironic that the country I live in, Denmark (member of the EU) have done exactly the same thing with allofmp3 that Turkey now did to youtube, yet Denmark is probably quite well known for their so called defense of freedom of speech, latest demonstrated by some drawings of Muhammed.

Of course there are differences between the right to free speech and the right to distribute unlicensed music.

Anyhow I kind of understand if the Turkish negotiators will think of the EU as talking with two tongues if they start telling them that Turkey can't do this kind of thing if they want to be part of the EU.

Frankly, Turkey is already a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights, which effectively grants Google/YouTube/anyone who was distributing a video via YouTube the right to compensation from the Turkish government via the European Court of Human Rights over this. EU membership is irrelevant, largely.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (4, Informative)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262280)

I don't think it will carry much weight. Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights reads:

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

Emphasis is obviously mine. Bascially, Turkey could argue that their laws are not restrictive to free speech, and that their laws only "protect the morals [and] reputation" of the citizens of its country. (Both past and present.)

Other EU countries can try to make a stink about it, but I seriously doubt that anyone is going to push Turkey too hard.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (2, Insightful)

julesh (229690) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262338)

Emphasis is obviously mine. Bascially, Turkey could argue that their laws are not restrictive to free speech, and that their laws only "protect the morals [and] reputation" of the citizens of its country. (Both past and present.)

Protection of morals has been used as a get-out in the past; it is how censorship of pornography and/or "hate speech" is typically justified. I just don't see how it would apply in this case, as (if I read the summary correctly) nothing even approximately moral is involved. The issue is purely political.

I believe the protection of the reputation of others has been interpreted by the court in the past as only applying to those who are still alive, which would rule it out in this case.

Other EU countries can try to make a stink about it, but I seriously doubt that anyone is going to push Turkey too hard.

Of course, anybody can petition the European Court of Human Rights these days. I'm not sure how much profit YouTube will be losing here, but I'd be unsurprised if they weren't at least considering doing so right now.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262340)

Stupidest thing you've heard from Turkey in a long time? Ever hear of the Armenian Genocide? To this day Turkey has refused to acknowledge it even happened. I'd say refusing to acknowledge a 1.5 million body count, almost 2/3rds of the entire population of Armenia, is pretty stupid. Considering there is enormous amounts of data supporting it, eye witness accounts, paper trails, almost every major government on Earth having an official position stating that it occurred.

To them, it never happened. They should not be allowed to join the EU until they own up their atrocities, nor should they be supported or even considered.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (-1, Offtopic)

Sobrique (543255) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262442)

Ah, now it becomes clear who bought the Obi-Wan Kenobi cloak.

"This is not the genocide you were looking for."

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (1)

Drive42 (444835) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262702)

Jesus. It was foul enough that you made an obi-wan joke. Making an obi-wan joke about the Armenian genocide is just unfathomably idiotic.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262374)

Don't the Turks murder people who admit a genocide took place against the Armenians in 1900s?

Especially since Germany has similar laws (2, Insightful)

wiredog (43288) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262386)

Except those laws criminalize different speech. I fully expect YouTube to be banned in parts of the EU for hosting either old Nazi propaganda films or Holocaust denial.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262460)

Things like these are going to be a problem a serious problem in any negotiations, I can hardly think of any way to demonstrate more clearly that freedom of speech is not something that is not practiced in Turkey.
There are strong forces opposed to EU membership within Turkey, and it has been speculated on at least one occasion that decisions like this and others are attempts to rock the boat and weaken the chances of Turkey joining the EU, orchestrated by such people.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (0, Troll)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262524)

I would hope their would be strong forces within the EU opposed to their membership to. I mean, does the EU really want to open the Pandora's Box of letting a country like Turkey in? Even Russia will be a hard sell, much less a country that is about one generation away from rule by Sharia.

-Eric

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262698)

Even Russia will be a hard sell, much less a country that is about one generation away from rule by Sharia.

Take a look at Russia's demographics & birth rates. That sentence applies to Russia, as well.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (3, Insightful)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262462)

I just have one question. How can the EU seriously consider Turkey for membership when it
1) refuses to recognize a member of the EU (Cyprus) and
2) refuses to end its illegal occupation of that same member (the bogus "nation" of Northern Cyprus)?
Does refusal to recognize an existing member somehow not matter? If it was me, I'd tell Turkey in no uncertain terms that until those issues are resolved, talks are meaningless because there can be no membership without resolution of both issues and both issues can only be resolved in a way that Turkey will never agree to. I suppose the EU has nothing better to do than waste everyone's time with this charade.

Re:Headache for EU negotiators (1)

antibryce (124264) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262556)


France didn't seem to have a problem joining the EU, despite some free speech issues. [slashdot.org]

If you think talking about Atatürk is bad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262104)

If you think talking about Atatürk is bad in Turkey, try talking about the Armenian genocide [wikipedia.org] .

Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (4, Informative)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262112)

Edit your hosts file to point to 208.65.153.253 or 208.65.153.251. Here are the instructions for each OS:

# Unix/Linux/OS X

1. 'su'
2. 'echo "208.65.153.253 www.youtube.com" >> /etc/hosts'

# Windows

1. Start > Run > 'cmd'
2. 'echo 208.65.153.253 www.youtube.com >> c:\Windows\System32\Drivers\etc\hosts'

You may need to edit your hosts file with a text editor to ensure that it was properly edited. On Windows in particular, there may not be a line break added in. Just open the file, find the "208.", position the cursor in front of the "208." and press enter. Save the file.

There. All done.

As you can see, the Turkish government's solution is incredibly sophiticated and difficult to circumvent. :-/

Here's an actual story on the issue. [jpost.com]

The long and short of it is that Turkey found the video "insulting" and hasn't even decided yet if the video is legally "wrong". So much for being a "democratic, secular, unitary, constitutional republic". (Taken from Wikipedia.)

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (3, Informative)

WinterSolstice (223271) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262164)

Actually on OSX:

sudo bash
echo "208.65.153.253 www.youtube.com" >> /etc/hosts

(can't just su on OSX usually - root has no password)

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262170)

Good point. I was in a bit of a hurry and didn't notice that little snafu. Thanks for the update. :)

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (1)

geoffspear (692508) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262190)

"sudo -s" is more friendly to people who use a real shell and want to continue using it as root.

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (1)

jeremyp (130771) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262454)

Actually on OS X

sudo echo "208.65.153.253 www.youtube.com" >> /etc/hosts

or what I do

sudo vi /etc/hosts
<password>
:$
o208.65.153.253 www.youtube.com<esc>:wq

Well, that's a lie actually, what I normally do is

vi /etc/hosts
:$
o208.65.153.253 www.youtube.com<esc>:wq
:q!
sudo vi /etc/hosts
<password>
:$
o208.65.153.253 www.youtube.com<esc>:wq

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262570)

> Actually on OS X
>
> sudo echo "208.65.153.253 www.youtube.com" >> /etc/hosts

Running echo as root is of no use when Bash tries to redirect without root permissions.

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (3, Interesting)

Moby Cock (771358) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262174)

Anything that "insults" Turkishness is illegal in Turkey. It makes for some very odd behaviour. For example, their most famour novelist was recently tried in the courts because he admitted (while in SwitzerlandO) that he believed that Turkey played a role in the Armenian Genocide. Participation in genocide is construed as insulting Turkishness and thus prosecutable. My friend married a Turkish woman and she is the most nationalistic person I've ever known. She will not tolerate any jokes or snide comments about Turkey.

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (1)

geoffspear (692508) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262226)

My friend married a Turkish woman and she is the most nationalistic person I've ever known. She will not tolerate any jokes or snide comments about Turkey.

That's not nationalism, it's just good sense. She knows that if she returns to Turkey after tolerating jokes or snide comments in another country, she could be imprisoned for life for toleration.

I believe the penalty for using the letters q, w, and x has been liberalized and no longer calls for immediate execution.

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262350)

> I believe the penalty for using the letters q, w, and x has been liberalized and no longer calls for immediate execution.

That sounds pretty progressive. They're actually starting to crack down on honor killings too: you can get up to a week in prison for that now.

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (1)

myth24601 (893486) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262448)

> I believe the penalty for using the letters q, w, and x has been liberalized and no longer calls for immediate execution.

That sounds pretty progressive. They're actually starting to crack down on honor killings too: you can get up to a week in prison for that now.


Yeah but it is one of those country club prisons like the white collar criminals get sent to.

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262370)

Turkey has a few cultural and political problems that it needs to overcome in order to join the EU. One of the more pressing issues is its denial of the Assyrian, Armenian, and Greek genocide [aina.org] it perpetrated during WWI.

Anyone who discusses the above issue is immediately deemed as insulting "Turkishness" and inciting hatred. Turkey's reply to this insulting behavior is to prosecute Orhan Pamuk [wikipedia.org] and murdering Hrat Dink [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (1)

phasm42 (588479) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262450)

She will not tolerate any jokes or snide comments about Turkey.
Funny that, coming from a country we call Turkey.

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (1)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262710)

She will not tolerate any jokes or snide comments about Turkey.

I bet she's no fun at Christmas.

Re:Super-Secret Uber Hacking Thing-a-ma-whatsit (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262220)

You have the right idea, and soon Turkey will be another example of why and how governments can no longer censor information from the people. Clearly if you funnel misinformation to the people, similar effects can be achieved (See the U.S.A) but censoring information does not work. For all that the Chinese government has done, its people are not stupid. All attempts to censor information will eventually work themselves back around to bite the censor.

That might sound optimistic, but it is still true. The sci-fi surrealism of knowing that many young Chinese children don't recognize a picture of 'tank man' is haunting, but because this problem exists, they will find out eventually, and the realization that it was censored will cause a backlash.

As for Turkey, they have been on the edge of acceptance for a long time. This won't help them, and how they handle it will make a huge difference to the country's bottom line, IMO.

I KISS YOU!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262444)

Thank you for fix. I KISS YOU!!!! [istanbul.tc]

How inconvenient (3, Informative)

NinjaTariq (1034260) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262126)

... That they have to go to http://208.65.153.251/ [208.65.153.251] or edit their hosts file to do it.

From the office of the Minister of Turkish Justice (2)

MrBulwark (862510) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262128)

[Access to this comment has been suspended in accordance with decision no: 2007/384 dated 06.03.2007 of Istanbul First Criminal Peace Court. Move along, there is nothing to see here.]

BushCo Censors Slashdot: +1, Timely (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262144)

There are three talking points that no reasonable letter about Hon. Richard B Cheney can possibly ignore:

      1. Cheney's underlings will leave us high and dry as they label everyone he doesn't like as a racist, sexist, fascist, communist, or some equally terrible "-ist".
      2. It is both frustrating and frightening to observe the extreme ignorance -- no, idiocy -- present in his grievances.
      3. He contributes nothing to society.

Here's the story: It is immature and stupid of him to test another formula for silencing serious opposition. It would be mature and intelligent, however, to promote peace, prosperity, and quality of life, both here and abroad, and that's why I say that if he truly wanted to be helpful, Cheney wouldn't repeat the mistakes of the past. He keeps trying to deceive us into thinking that diseases can be defeated not through standard medical research but through the creation of a new language, one that does not stigmatize certain groups and behaviors. The purpose of this deception may be to waste hours and hours in fruitless conferences and meetings. Or maybe the purpose is to meddle in everyone else's affairs. Oh what a tangled web Cheney weaves when first he practices to deceive. Whenever he tries to displace meaningful discussion of an issue's merit or demerit with hunch and emotion, so do what I call stentorian fault-finders. Similarly, whenever he attempts to introduce disease, ignorance, squalor, idleness, and want into affluent neighborhoods, the worst sorts of materialistic, yellow-bellied ragamuffins there are typically attempt the same. I do not seek to draw any causal scheme from these correlations. I mention them only because I would like to comment on his attempt to associate sectarianism with nepotism. There is no association.

In general, I can say one thing about Cheney. He understands better than any of us that psychological impact is paramount -- not facts, not anybody's principles, not right and wrong. I'm not suggesting that we behave likewise. I'm suggesting only that if Cheney thinks that he can make me become increasingly frustrated, humiliated and angry, then he's barking up the wrong tree. He is talking out of his posterior. But let's not quibble about that. When I was a child, my clergyman told me, "I find Cheney the most flagitious person in the world." If you think about it you'll see his point.

All I'm trying to do here is indicate in a rough and approximate way the amoral tendencies that make Cheney want to engulf the world in a dense miasma of incendiarism. His conclusions always follow the same pattern. He puts the desired twist on the actual facts, ignores inconvenient facts, and invents as many new "facts" as necessary to convince us that his methods of interpretation are good for the environment, human rights, and baby seals.

Cheney maintains that either authoritarianism and antipluralism are identical concepts or that divine ichor flows through his veins. Cheney denies any other possibility. Unsettling as that is, the more infuriating fact is that I have a message for him. My message is that, for the good of us all, he should never force us to bow down low before refractory quacks. He should never even try to do such a self-indulgent thing. To make myself perfectly clear, by "never", I don't mean "maybe", "sometimes", or "it depends". I mean only that a person who wants to get ahead should try to understand the long-range consequences of his/her actions. Cheney has never had that faculty. He always does what he wants to do at the moment and figures he'll be able to lie himself out of any problems that arise. He lives for one reason and for one reason only: to dominate or intimidate others. Cheney is totally gung-ho about neocolonialism because he lacks more pressing soapbox issues. It seems to me that he is both unregenerate and spiteful. Now there's a dangerous combination if I've ever seen one.

Cheney's agitprop machine is running at full throttle. (Actually, the law of self preservation dictates that I declare a truce with Cheney and commence a dialogue but that's not important now.) It would be bad enough if his apple-polishers were merely trying to force people to act in ways far removed from the natural patterns of human behavior. But their attempts to galvanize an arrogant hysteria, a large-scale version of the audacious mentality that can utilize legal, above-ground organizing in combination with illegal, underground tactics to impose a "glass ceiling" that limits our opportunities for promotions in most jobs, are just plain atrabilious.

Cheney refers to a variety of things using the word "mediterraneanization". Translating this bit of jargon into English isn't easy. Basically, he's saying that the Eleventh Commandment is, "Thou shalt progressively narrow the sphere of human freedom", which we all know is patently absurd. At any rate, one of Cheney's favorite tricks is to create a problem and then to offer the solution. Naturally, it's always his solutions that grant him the freedom to impose a particular curriculum, vision of history, and method of pedagogy on our school systems, never the original problem. Although he has never read carefully anything I've written, if we don't remove the Richard B Cheney threat now, it will bite us in our backside some day. His solutions are intellectually and morally indefensible. What are the lessons for us in this? First, it's that he exudes the foul odor of classism. And second, it will not be easy to anneal discourse with honesty, clear thinking, and a sense of moral good. Nevertheless, we must attempt to do exactly that, for the overriding reason that it may seem difficult at first to provide a positive, confident, and assertive vision of humanity's future and our role in it. It is. But one of the things I find quite interesting is listening to other people's takes on things. For instance, I recently overheard some folks remark that there isn't a man, woman, or child alive today who thinks that going through the motions of working is the same as working, so let's toss out that ridiculous argument of Cheney's from the get-go.

People have pointed out to me that on many issues, discussions with Cheney quickly turn into fights, and dialogues soon degenerate into name-calling, but I still can't help but think that I frequently talk about how Cheney's slurs leave much to be desired. I would drop the subject, except that if he feels ridiculed by all the attention my letters are bringing him, then that's just too darn bad. Cheney's arrogance has brought this upon himself. Given a choice of having him gum up what were once great ideas or having my bicuspids extracted sans Novocaine, I would embrace the pliers, purchase some Polident Partials, and call it a day. Cheney is not only immoral, but amoral. It's possible that you'd have to be the town fool to maintain that doing the fashionable thing is more important than life or liberty. However, I cannot speculate about that possibility here because I need to devote more space to a description of how Cheney can't relate to anyone other than macabre layabouts, and everyone with half a brain understands that. His faithfuls portray themselves as fervent believers in freedom of speech and expression, but are loath to reveal that Cheney does, occasionally, make a valid point. But when he says that it is unstable to question his litanies, that's where the facts end and the ludicrousness begins.

Despite what Cheney says, I definitely hope you're not being misled by the "new Cheney". Only his methods and tactics have changed. Cheney's goal is still the same: to annihilate a person's personality, individuality, will, and character. That's why I'm telling you that Cheney hates people who have huge supplies of the things he lacks. What he lacks the most is common sense, which underlies my point that Cheney's communications are based on a denial of reality, on the substitution of a deliberately falsified picture of the world in place of reality. And this dishonesty, this refusal to admit the truth, will have some very serious consequences for all of us before long. Cheney craves more power. I say we should give him more power -- preferably, 10,000 volts of it. When a political condition of greed, massive corruption, and diversity of objective is coupled to a social condition of drugs, violence, and discontent, therein exists the perfect environment for Cheney to replace intellectual integrity with mutinous sloganeering. I have reason to believe that he is about to construct the spectre of a terrible armed threat. I pray that I'm wrong, of course, because the outcome could be devastating. Nevertheless, the indications are there that Cheney's claim that all literature which opposes careerism was forged by foul-mouthed brutes is not only an attack on the concept of objectivity, but an assault on the human mind.

Cheney's trucklers perpetrate all kinds of atrocities while alleging that they are simply not capable of such activities and that therefore, the atrocities must be the product of my and your feverish and overworked imaginations. I must point out that from secret-handshake societies meeting at "the usual place" to back-door admissions committees, Cheney's adherents have always found a way to deprive individuals of the right to help people break free of Cheney's cycle of oppression. Unfortunately, Cheney's semi-intelligible, crude sophistries neglect to take one important factor into consideration: human nature. One indication of this is the fact that as soon Cheney takes us beyond the point of no return, the next thing we'll hear him say is, "Oops, made a mistake". It's that simple.

However disgusting the national picture already is, no one likes being attacked by obdurate conspiracy theorists. Even worse, Cheney exploits our fear of those attacks -- which he claims will evolve by the end of the decade into biological, chemical, or nuclear attacks -- as a pretext to create a regime of boisterous egotism. If you think that's scary, then you should remember that I want to begin a course of careful, planned, and coordinated action. That may seem simple enough, but the first thing we need to do is to get Cheney to admit that he has a problem. He should be counseled to recite the following:

        * I, Richard B Cheney, am a splenetic con artist.
        * I have been a participant in a giant scheme to undermine the foundations of society until a single thrust suffices to make the entire edifice collapse.
        * I hereby admit my addiction to masochism. I ask for the strength and wisdom to fight this addiction.

Once Cheney realizes that he has a problem, maybe then he'll see that I must reach out even to my most ostrich-like readers and show them how he seems to have no trouble sweet-talking craven dorks into helping him undermine the individualistic underpinnings of traditional jurisprudence. I'll say that again, because I want it to sink in: I was personally offended -- and I don't easily offend -- by the value he places on making me languish along beneath the thousand eyes of prissy ingrates. I can't help but wonder: Why does everyone hate Cheney? Is it because of his business practices, exclusivity, disloyalty, disrespect, or because Cheney keeps trying to make nearby communities victims of environmental degradation and toxic waste dumping? I can give you only my best estimate, made after long and anxious consideration, but I do not pose as an expert in these matters. I can say only that he wants us to feel sorry for the despicable, peremptory nebbishes who put a wanton spin on important issues. I, for one, aver we should instead feel sorry for their victims, all of whom know full well that Cheney says that everyone would be a lot safer if he were to monitor all of our personal communications and financial transactions -- even our library records. Why on Earth does Cheney need to monitor our library records? This is not a question that we should run away from. Rather, it is something that needs to be addressed quickly and directly, because Cheney's dupes get a thrill out of protesting. They have no idea what causes they're fighting for or against. For them, going down to the local protest, carrying a sign, hanging out with Cheney, and meeting some other brusque, uncivilized grizzlers is merely a social event. They're not even aware that we have a dilemma of leviathan proportions on our hands: Should we present a noble vision of who we were, who we are, and who we can potentially be, or is it sufficient to restore the world back to its original balance? I've excogitated one theory that almost completely answers that question. Unfortunately, it fails to take into account that if you think that the cure for evil is more evil, then think again. Let me end by citing my standard hate-mail response form letter:

        Thank you for your thoughtful reply. One question, though: Do you actually want Hon. Richard B Cheney to paint pictures of negligent worlds inhabited by self-satisfied vandals? Because that's what'll happen if we don't prevent the production of a new crop of uncontrollable snollygosters.

Patriotically yours,
Philboyd Studge, C.E.O.

Mod parent Offtopic. (1)

phoenixwade (997892) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262426)

Other than being a turkey, how does this diatribe about the American VP apply to the Turkey censors YouTube article?

censorship doesn't work (0)

swschrad (312009) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262148)

just ask the leaders of the soviet union.

Big deal . . . (-1, Redundant)

scottennis (225462) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262150)

most corporate firewalls do too.

Youtube? Banned? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262162)

They must have caught wind of this blasphemy! [youtube.com] Take that infidels! (youtube)

Re:Youtube? Banned? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262242)

This video has been removed due to terms of use violation.

Please apply the following tag... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262172)

gobblegobble

Re:Please apply the following tag... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262310)

moderator's mom is overrated.

Ouch (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262182)

YouTube takes a big hit. 38 visitors less every month.

Re:Ouch (-1, Troll)

e1618978 (598967) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262504)

Istanbul is roughly the same size as New York City (10m people), but you are probably American so you would not know that. 8)

response from Turkey (5, Funny)

wolfgang_spangler (40539) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262184)

In response to inquiries from the press about censorship, Turkey responded, "Gobble Gobble!!! Gobble Gobble Gobble!!! Gobble Gobble. Infidel. Gobble Gobble"

Re:response from Turkey (1)

bibel (1072798) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262254)

HA HA ... South park rulz. I wonder ... do they have South Park in Turkey ?

Re:response from Turkey (1)

guneycan (1072828) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262550)

yes we do have sp @ cnbc-e

sad (1, Insightful)

mastershake_phd (1050150) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262212)

And people say we shouldnt worry about things like that here in the US. What Im surprised with is when these things happen in other countries there is no outrage. Dont the people of Turkey care? It is a Democracy. How can you have a democracy without criticizing those in power?

Re:sad (3, Insightful)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262654)

As noted in other posts, you can't criticize the Turkish government unless you want to be arrested. How do you tell a government that it's done something stupid if you can't do so, even a little bit, without being arrested?

The answer is simple: You leak the information to the world and let them do it for you.

Just learn about Turkish government (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262228)

And you will understand this. What drives them to do this, and what makes them different from America.

Just a hint. Don't go back too far. Turkey lost World-war 1. In a bad, very very very bad way. Then what happened ? What was the political system that got defeated ? What was the political system that replaced it ?

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk replaced something. Why don't you check out what he replaced. You will understand VERY clearly why he's a saint in Turkey.

Re:Just learn about Turkish government (4, Insightful)

julesh (229690) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262364)

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk replaced something. Why don't you check out what he replaced. You will understand VERY clearly why he's a saint in Turkey.

I don't care what he did. Winston Churchill did great things when he lead Britain to defeat the Nazis, yet I can call him a fat drunken slob without fear of recrimination if I so desire. That's what freedom's about: not having to care about offending people just because they did something important.

This is why (2, Interesting)

jbeaupre (752124) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262272)

I enjoy living in a country where not only is it legal to point out flaws and ridicule those in power, it is a national pastime. What more restrictive countries miss is that by letting everyone vent their opinions any time they want (and vote from time to time), dissent never seems to lead to revolution. Granted, this was a case of a Greek making fun of Turkey. A bit of historical animosity there. But a better response would have been along the lines of "Is that your best shot?" Maybe take a page from Cyrano. Like when an Israeli publication launched it's own anti-jewish cartoon contest in response to an Iranian newspaper's similar contest with the stated goal that they could self criticize better than any outsider (no idea on the outcome).

Would Greeece help? (2, Funny)

xs650 (741277) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262282)

Is Syria attacked Turkey from the rear, would Greece help?

Re:Would Greeece help? (1)

{X-Frog} (122801) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262352)

what the hell?
why would Syria attacks Turkey?!

Re:Would Greeece help? (1)

e1618978 (598967) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262432)

I'm guessing that the op was making a joke, as anal sex is often referred to as "greek".

Re:Would Greeece help? (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262602)

I thought the "Greece" bit was just a pun on "grease", i.e. lube.

Re:Would Greeece help? (1)

Fozzyuw (950608) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262618)

I thought the "Greece" bit was just a pun on "grease", i.e. lube.

That's what I was thinking as well

Re:Would Greeece help? (1)

phasm42 (588479) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262496)

Is Syria attacked Turkey from the rear, would Greece help?
what the hell?
why would Syria attacks Turkey?!
*WHOOSH*

Re:Would Greeece help? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262508)

Look overhead! *whoosh*

Re:Would Greeece help? (1)

o'reor (581921) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262588)

why would Syria attacks Turkey?!
For the sake of a bad pun. But "Greeece" won't help in understanding it.

Re:Would Greeece help? (1)

Acacius (774491) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262402)

Most probably. Greece is obliged to help Turkey in such a case, as both countries are NATO members and therefore allies.

Re:Would Greeece help? (1)

geoffspear (692508) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262740)

If Greece and Turkey declare war on each other, would they then have to declare war on themselves too, since they're "allies"?

Re:Would Greeece help? (0)

Butisol (994224) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262522)

Yes, Greece would get in there and help reduce the friction between Syria and Turkey. The only problem is that they'd risk getting Greece all over the place and causing a slippery situation in the region. Turkey can mitigate this possibility somewhat by carefully limiting how much Greece gets involved in the situation. In any case, Greece would certainly reduce the bloodshed.

In other news (1)

computational super (740265) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262294)

... In other news, the Slashdot effect is about to censor the court order.

Re:In other news (1)

Butisol (994224) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262398)

Sometimes all you can do is keep the flame burning. I like to think that every troll gets his time in the limelight at some point.

Narcistic Turkey vs. The World (5, Informative)

Denial93 (773403) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262322)

Turkey, as a country, has what in a human would be diagnosed as pathological narcism [wikipedia.org] . They just jailed a Kurd for six months for respectfully referring to convicted rebel Abdullah Ocalan as "Mr Ocalan" [bbc.co.uk] . They brought criminal charges against their Nobel Prize winner Orhan Pamuk [wikipedia.org] for mentioning a government-sponsored genocide almost 100 years ago [wikipedia.org] . Turkey denies this holocaust [wikipedia.org] .

Why do I say this? Just to make clear this new ruling is just a small symptom of a much wider problem. It shouldn't surprise us in any way, but merely drive home the point Turkey is currently rather distant from European ideas of how to apply state power. More insidiously, this new conflict also points at the ever-increasing difficulty of isolating minority opinions from outside critique - the only way to do it, ultimately, is the North Korean route. I don't think Turkey will do that - they have a very proud and nationalistic government, but it is not a dictatorship with the power to force the ever-increasing price of its ego issues on all of the population.

Re:Narcistic Turkey vs. The World (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262502)

Well, I do not know what does Turkish do to piss everybody but, so far since I have arrived the UK almost everyone who speaks about Turks say the worst things about them.

For example, a Greek girl told me that they were racists and they were assholes that tried to invade certain Greek lands and that a lot of Turks try to emigrate to other places and do terrible things. Then, a cousin living in Spain also told me to beware of the Turks, he told me "I am no racist or anything but it seems that at least in Barcelona the only people that will assault and rob you are Turks". And then an American who lived in Egypt and other places also talked of Turks as shit (of course, well... she is American so... take it with a grain of salt).

I have nothing against them, from where I come from (Mexico) I had no preconception of them but wow It seems they should have done things very wrong to be seen how they are seen. Of course I cant put my hands in the fire for Mexicans as lots of Americans might see us like illegal aliens trying to take out your jobs (Although... as our so "loved" ex-president, Mexicans go to USA to do work that "not even blacks" like to do [with apologies to our fellow non-white friends]).

Re:Narcistic Turkey vs. The World (1, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262652)

For example, a Greek girl told me that they were racists and they were assholes that tried to invade certain Greek lands and that a lot of Turks try to emigrate to other places and do terrible things. Then, a cousin living in Spain also told me to beware of the Turks, he told me "I am no racist or anything but it seems that at least in Barcelona the only people that will assault and rob you are Turks". And then an American who lived in Egypt and other places also talked of Turks as shit (of course, well... she is American so... take it with a grain of salt).

So the only people who you can't trust in this list are the Americans?

Congratulations for outing yourself as a bigot.

Americans are people too. Try not to forget this.

I have nothing against them, from where I come from (Mexico) I had no preconception of them but wow It seems they should have done things very wrong to be seen how they are seen. Of course I cant put my hands in the fire for Mexicans as lots of Americans might see us like illegal aliens trying to take out your jobs (Although... as our so "loved" ex-president, Mexicans go to USA to do work that "not even blacks" like to do [with apologies to our fellow non-white friends]).

Although many Americans don't understand this, America has set up the situation in Central America quite deliberately and successfully to achieve certain goals. One of them is to have someplace close to home to have manufacturing work done cheaply. Another is to provide a source of cheap labor for jobs Americans don't want to do for a price that will sustain the market. What many Americans don't understand is that they will be paying four dollars for a head of iceberg lettuce (currently a dollar or less when in season for those who don't know because they are lucky enough to live somewhere else) if we don't have this pool of laborers that can be cheated on wages and for whom benefits are not paid.

Illegal immigration is just a hidden cost of our system of corporate welfare.

Americans are not any more or less stupid than anyone else. What we are is lazy, because we can be. We've had it so good for so long we've forgotten what real hardship was like. No one is starving in this country because there is no help for them, only because they do not like what they will have to do to get the help, which is usually just to admit that they are helpless but sometimes involves a change of lifestyle.

Re:Narcistic Turkey vs. The World (1)

yankI (901428) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262590)

As of today, the court reversed its decision on the YouTube ban after YouTube pulled down the videos in question.

Re:Narcistic Turkey vs. The World (1)

Ronald Dumsfeld (723277) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262674)

First off, what the hell is wrong with /.? I can't find the post a reply message here with Firefox.

Then, to respond to the parent, I tend to agree with much of what you say. There is a progressive minority within the country that would admit to the Armenian genocide, become more secular, and embrace European ideals.

But they're just that, a minority. Turkey isn't ready to join the European Union, and this is just one of the indicators that shows it.

Shoulda linked (1)

jlebrech (810586) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262330)

You should linked to the actually page an not just have an image.

Slashdot the suckers :D

Turkey scares the bejeezus out of me. (1)

Butisol (994224) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262336)

I saw that movie Midnight Express. I think people are afraid to challenge this fascist nonsense because they're afraid of a vicious asspounding in a Turkish dungeon, you know, like on that movie Midnight Express. YouTube or YouLube, not a tough choice.

Re:Turkey scares the bejeezus out of me. (1)

e1618978 (598967) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262582)

That is really true - you can tell a lot about a country by looking at movies. All small towns in the South are run by corrupt police, and they all have KKK meetings every weekend. Plus Sweden is stewardess orgy central, and Canada is full of flappy headed fart jokers, plus a few seal clubbing, back bacon eating French Canadians.

Re:Turkey scares the bejeezus out of me. (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262760)

Plus Sweden is stewardess orgy central


Oh boy !! I love blonde "swödige"

In other news (0, Troll)

hedleyroos (817147) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262384)

Chicken sensors Google

lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262412)

Yeah, I can't imagine why we would have a problem with letting go of our control of DNS to a global body, nooooo clue.

DNS Root Servers (1)

tomz16 (992375) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262422)

Hope everyone remembers this next time the stupid "US controls the DNS root" non-issue comes up again.

Re:DNS Root Servers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262528)

Yes, the US controlling the DNS root certainly stopped this
attempt at censorship. Go USA!

Idiot.

Re:DNS Root Servers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262690)

Tip: If you're try to post anonymously, it defeats the purpose to put your name at the end of a message.

Re:DNS Root Servers (1)

giorgiofr (887762) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262728)

You must be joking. This is precisely the reason why no one should be allowed such kind of access to the root servers. Not even you.
Not my problem anyway, as I use a different set of roots already.

thank god for google (1)

rjnagle (122374) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262468)

In retrospect, it's probably a good thing that Google bought Youtube.

they have enough muscle that they will not remove a video merely because of political pressure. It's hard to know if a startup company could have the same cojones.

If there was ever a case for... (1)

OlivierB (709839) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262472)

OpenDns then this is it.

No need to mock around with your hosts file with Sudo, hosts.etc and who knows what kind of crap. Just open your connections settings and instead of "use ISP DNS" just pop in 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220
Works like a charm.

And if that doesn't work (99% guaranteed it will) than fork over some dough for PublicVPN Relakks or whatever. $5 per month or whatever is not a whole lot for freedom of speech.

Thats turkey for you (3, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262474)

Turkey is a place where 'holy state' concept still lingers on. Anything said against the state, or 'holy' values instantly justifies and extreme measures - like banning of a whole mega site from ALL users in an 60 million nation.

it doesnt matter what purpose for the site is generally used or not - just say something that is not to the liking of the state, and voila, all is gone.

Turkey is not a modern country by any means unfortunately. Everything is shown to be in that direction by the turkish negotiators to european union, however suppression of the citizens by the government still continue on.

Recently, if you remember, a list of 30+ games including Knight online, counterstrike, halflife and such were banned in turkey from internet cafes with the state decision, citing reports from obscure, unknown local academician's reports that said 'these games teach kids violence'. These reports were given on the fly, with demand from government, in a few hours without any research. Simple as that. An executive decision that took half a day for the governmental bureucracy to take and implement.

Same goes for anything else - citizens are pariah to the state in turkey. If you go to get something done in a local government branch, the appointed/elected authority holders scorn over you, elected representatives of the assembly behave like they are local feudal lords, not as normal people elected to serve people. The current Finance Minister passes out FOUR laws in order to erase HIS OWN COMPANY'S tax debts to government, and nobody can oppose it. A newspaper/television says something not to the liking of the ruling party, and suddenly finance ministry starts a thorough and not-by-the-book tax examination of that newspaper/televison to suppress them.

Recently a law was prepared and proposed in order to make it much more easy for government to control what is being said on the internet, with the help of a certain media group's fud-spamming, saying that 'internet is evil and needs to be straightened out'.

Unfortunately this is turkey for you.

Was YouTube Gobbled up by Turkey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262480)

The Hungary masses were drawing near and Turkey was afraid of being made into Chile, so Turkey pre-emptively Gobbled YouTube
I might do the same if my fridge didn't have an Iceland to store leftovers in.

Where's Ata Turk when you need him? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262484)

This man liberated Turkey from the clutches of religion and reformed it into a modern, more liberal society. A long time ago.

Now they're all going backwards again. Well, the US isn't exactly a good example though, with all them moralists. (insert electron/moron joke here)

Too lame (0, Troll)

MrPeach (43671) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262538)

Redirection at the DNS level? Can you say OpenDNS? I knew you could!

Some information about Ataturk (3, Interesting)

sesshomaru (173381) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262564)

Here's a Turkish blog with an excerpt from an article by Gary Brecher about the "Father of All Turks"

Gary Brecher: Glory to the Turks [myspace.com]

Oh, and also here is the Pingus engine game, Gallipoli: The Game [um.com.au] which has a very short bio of Ataturk on the page("Mustafa Kemal Atatürk (Turkish): Killed a lot of Australians (and New Zealanders) at Gallipoli and therefore became the first President of Turkey."), but it also has a picture. You can play as Ataturk in the game which is a good example of Australian sardonic humor.

Not much can be done. (1)

Sauvik (924403) | more than 7 years ago | (#18262738)

You can't help but wonder in awe. The amount of useless bashing around the bush that goes on is kind of irritaing at times but nothing can be done. These govt. officials mostly have no idea of the technology, their mechanisms, etc. which is kind of annoying considering the fact that they are the ones who decide about these things. It's a problem of ignorance.

Figures it was a Greek who got them riled up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18262750)

Now the Turks can't endlessly spam Youtube's comments under every "300" trailer posted to the site.
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