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The Reinvention of Zelda

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the he's-always-wearing-green-at-least dept.

Nintendo 74

Gamespot reports on a lecture at GDC on Thursday, with commentary from Nintendo's manager of software development Eiji Aonuma. Aonuma went through the very long process involved in bringing Twilight Princess to the American audience. Realistic graphics were chosen for the US playerbase, but many other decisions came about via unorthodox thinking and the intervention of a higher power. "It was around this stage that Aonuma was talking to Nintendo senior managing director Shigeru Miyamoto, who told him something along the lines of, 'It's as though the Revolution (later renamed the Wii) was designed just for Zelda! Why don't you try making a Zelda for the Revolution?' In the end, believes Aonuma, the kind of direct control offered by the Wii Remote was exactly what was needed to breathe life into the game."

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I might give it a try... (1, Insightful)

xtracto (837672) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287510)

MMmmmhhh, I might give it a try to this game, after all I bought it after getting the Wii (because my girlfriend likes playing Zelda games) but after watching her playing a bit, it seemed a bit boring. Catch some fish in order to attract the cat in order to take the cat to the grandma in order to get a token you take to grandpa in order to get some info on how to get the sword. And of course you can not do anything else unless you have done that...

Dont get me wrong, I loved the LOZ- A Link to the Past (SNES) and LOZ- Link's Awakening (GB) when I was a kid. And currently I love games like Morrowind and NeverWinter Nights but this Zelda games (the two or three I have seen in the last consoles) suffer from the problem of being linear. They are supposed to be a bit "role playing" but are very linear. Maybe it is because they are "Adventure" genre and they do not have the elements of Role playing (develop your character).

But well.. there are not too many games for Wii and somehow this game has one of the best ratings everywhere =o)

Re:I might give it a try... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18287622)

There are role playing aspects to Zelda, but they come in the form of new items. and many are used to solve puzzles (and much more)

You said you likes the older zeldas, why should this be any different?

Re:I might give it a try... (4, Informative)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287672)

This is purely the beginning... Zelda TP is very puzzle intense, but once you are above the first 5% you have lots of action.

Re:I might give it a try... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18287678)

I found that TP got off to a slow start, but really brought the awesomesauce before too long. Also, despite popular opinion, I think the Wiimote adds a lot to the combat. Higher-level fighting goes beyond the simplistic hack/slash/press-A of Wind Waker, and I don't think the various moves would have been as intuitive on the GameCube controller.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

Zigg (64962) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287968)

I actually played both games. "Shake the Remote" is simply mapped to the old B-button presses. That's all that's going on. The parry moves in the GameCube version of Twilight Princess are equally as complex as they are in the Wii version, only you're pressing B instead of shaking the Remote.

The improvements in combat are part of the game, not part of the system.

Re:I might give it a try... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18288028)

How do you do a shield attack?

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

another_fanboy (987962) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288696)

In the gamecube version? R-trigger while L-targetting.

Re:I might give it a try... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18289696)

Sounds like we've replaced quite a bit more than simple B button presses with motion controls, haven't we?

Simple attack: wiimote waggle on Wii, B on GC
Spin attack: nuchuck shake on Wii, spin+B or hold B on GC (at least, that's how it worked in Wind Waker)
Shield attack: nunchuk thrust on Wii, R-trigger on GC

I don't know why people say that the Wiimote use in TP is "simply mapped to the old B-button presses". There is a little bit more going on, and I find the resulting controls much more natural and intuitive.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18298022)

R is the shield button anyway (not that you need it considering that ~50% of all attacks hit your shield even when you aren't doing anything), when you're close enough you hit the enemy with it rather than just holding it in front of you. The other special moves are on the A button and mostly context sensitive (though the dodge-spin is on B while dodging). There's not much to learn about it beyond what context you have to create to use them.

Though all that combat design is mostly useless because you'll encounter almost no enemies that really require that you use all those moves on them. Hell, even Ganondorf has trouble hitting you while you can score lots of counterhits if you keep using those moves (not that it helps since you can only defeat him by triggering a cutscene).

Re:I might give it a try... (2, Informative)

autojive (560399) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287740)

They are supposed to be a bit "role playing" but are very linear.

Um, pretty much all of the Zelda games are linear. Go to this dungeon, get this item & defeat this boss, get direction to the next dungeon to get that item & defeat that boss, wash, rinse, repeat. I don't know what games you've been playing to make you think that they were anything but linear.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

Have Blue (616) | more than 7 years ago | (#18290542)

The central progression is linear, but pretty much all of the optional quests are independent of both each other and the main branch (not counting earning required items).

Re:I might give it a try... (2, Insightful)

DahGhostfacedFiddlah (470393) | more than 7 years ago | (#18291274)

Well, in Zelda, Link's Awakening, and Link to the Past, you weren't forced to go through Dungeon 1 before moving on to 2, for instance. In the original, you had access to pretty much the entire map (all 256 "rooms" of it) right from the beginning - and could do a lot of adventuring before even entering the first dungeon.

It's become less and less so as more games have been released. And now in TP, it just feels like you're trapped in room X until you're done there, and can move on to room X+1.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18298048)

Only LoZ and AoL were really nonlinear, all the others had some form of mandatory progression with a few sequence breaks available. You can sequence break in some 3d Zeldas but that really breaks the game.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

DahGhostfacedFiddlah (470393) | more than 7 years ago | (#18310788)

True, but the forced sequence in TP feels far more restrictive than any other zelda I've played. In the others at least it felt like there was some breathing room.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

Agilus (471376) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287774)

The first hour is a bit slow, sort of tutorial-ish, but then the pace picks up quite a bit.

It is indeed more linear than Morrowind, but it's a different kind of game. *shrug* It's got a good story, and it's engaging, and it's not so linear that you feel like you're on rails.

Re:I might give it a try... (3, Insightful)

Fiztaru (990211) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287806)

I see your point about it being linear, but that's not really any big surprise; none of the games in the Zelda series could seriously be considered true RPGs (adventure with a few basic RPG elements mixed in).
Look at A Link to the Past-you can't just go fight Agahnim; you've got to find your uncle in the castle sewers, rescue Zelda, take her to the church, travel to three dungeons to get all three Pendants to get the Master Sword, etc. So there hasn't been much of a change in that regard.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Zelda games (even Zelda II), and sometimes certain things you're doing in any one of them can get repetitive, to be sure-but one has to be careful not to expect them to be something they're not.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287942)

### I see your point about it being linear, but that's not really any big surprise; none of the games in the Zelda series could seriously be considered true RPGs (adventure with a few basic RPG elements mixed in).

Zelda games are no RPGs, but they never were as linear as Zelda:TP. In Zelda:TP you could literally just solve dungeon, warp back to Thelma's tavern, get hint for next dungeon, warp to dungeon, solve dungeon, repeat. There was no need to explore at all, since everything you had to do was down right obvious. Also in the dungeon there almost never was a situation where you had one key, but two doors to open, in earlier Zeldas however that was pretty much the norm. Zelda didn't even successful recreate the non-linearity of earlier Zelda let alone expand it.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

fabs64 (657132) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288054)

Massive Zelda fan and I'll definitely give you that point, Zelda:TP is more linear than previous Zelda's.

I'm not sure if it really detracts from the game though... Zelda:TP has a much stronger storyline than previous incarnations and hence the more strict storyline. As far as "Zelda Moments" go, the bits with Llia in them are right up there for me.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

Snowgen (586732) | more than 7 years ago | (#18290854)

none of the games in the Zelda series could seriously be considered true RPGs

I'll go you one better: no computer/console game ever could seriously be considered a true RPG (and what you defined is not a "true" RPG). It peeves me to no end how the software industry has co-opted the RPG term to describe something where you don't actually play a role with any degree of freedom. It's not a role-playing game until I can say "screw the plotline... I'm establishing Ordona as my base of power to take over the world!" Or maybe "Hey! I like being a wolf! Let me just live in the woods and eat bunnies, and find some nice wolf-bitch to raise my pups."

The graphics may be pretty, and the story more involved, but we really haven't progressed that much past Zork or Bard's Tale.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

yoyhed (651244) | more than 7 years ago | (#18299410)

I'd say Oblivion comes pretty damn close to the "true" definition.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

another_fanboy (987962) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288808)

Majora's Mask was the most non-linear Zelda game made. All the mini-quests were a great break from the typical dungeon to dungeon routine, but the main storyline was lame. Any time the third day rolled around, you could march up the tower and stare skull kid in the eye, but you could not hit him with any weapon. All in all, it would be nice if they would bring back the sheer number of side quests Majora had so long as it did not take away from the main storyline.

Re:I might give it a try... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18291402)

No they're not, and that's the problem.

Role playing games are something very, very different than "HIT POINTS AND ORCS!!!!!111111111111"

Unfortunately, from an early age, the video game industry has corrupted the word. Grand Theft Auto is more of an RPG than LOZ. (Or dare I say, any game in the Final Fantasy series, even.)

By nature of the words 'role playing', any linear game automatically isn't. Only by going by the letter of those two words, rather than the spirit, can one qualify these games as RPGs. Essentially, roleplaying is about acting, and you can't act in these games. You can't name your character after some meteorological term and then go off and do whatever your character would do - no, you're stuck clicking yes or no, and you're either saving the world or losing the game. :P

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

Fiver- (169605) | more than 7 years ago | (#18291788)

Twilight Princess makes sure you know how to use the game's mechanics before you can progress. Wind Waker was like that too. I never had an N64 so I can't speak to those. Pretty much every piece of equipment you find in the "dungeons" requires you to use it in order to go the next room. The dead knight/golden wolf requires that you successfully execute the moves he teaches you once before you can leave, and once again before you can learn a new move. I think it's a great design feature, so 30 minutes down the road you're not left wondering "now how do I use this Clawshot thingy I found?"

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

VTMarik (880085) | more than 7 years ago | (#18292116)

That beginning section is a tutorial. It's so seamless in the execution that it looks like the gameplay itself. Trust me, the moment you get past all that is the moment you find the best Zelda game you've ever played. I love it, and I've just now gotten to the first temple.

Re:I might give it a try... (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18298076)

I disagree with "best Zelda game", TP had the potential but it was way too easy for the title. Later on you have tons of hearts and potentially potions but enemies still don't do much more damage than they did in the early game and just by spamming your "occult" moves you can avoid most hits while your shield will deflect loads of attacks you failed to dodge.

Aonuma stated he never finished the earlier Zeldas because they were too difficult so he decided to lower the difficulty. I don't get this aversion towards games you don't finish. Unless you give up in the first half of the game or so that's not a real problem IMO and games shouldn't be designed with the goal to let even a potato finish them. Maybe Aonuma should have tried playing a few more games before trying to design games or he should assume other people are better gamers than him.

Quite true (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287534)

And I still wonder what Zelda for my Wii would have been like if it wasn't tacked on in the middle of the GameCube development cycle. A few spastics flicks and fishing isn't exactly earth shattering sorry no. In fact, the onscreen fairy cursor is just annoying (does it serve ANY purpose apart from making me keep the thing aimed off screen most of the time?), and the already complex play proceedure brought over from the N64 and GC are made - even - more - complicated with the Wii. I don't know how many times I've used something in my inventory when I wanted to bring the selection screen up. And with Z-targeting still in effect, why aim half the time - particuarly when you're in a tight squeeze?

Good start - love to see it finished.

Re:Quite true (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287724)

Actually it is not really tacked on, the floating fairy is a matter of taste, I could live without it, but the motion sensing in combats is definitely a huge plus as well as the aiming via wiimote. If the graphics are improved I rather doubt it, the textures are way to washed out for a wii game, which is the main problem the game has graphicswise. (Btw. I hate the zoning system, this is definitely a huge design flaw and not really that necessary anymore)

Re:Quite true (1)

MasterOfMagic (151058) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288428)

You can turn off the fairy cursor. I made this one change, and the playability of the game improved about 100%.

It could be worse. You could be damned to the Hell of eternal "HEY LISTEN!". At least the fairy knows she's best seen and not heard in this game. (Though really, I'm still scarred for life from "HEY LISTEN!")

Re:Quite true (1)

Verteiron (224042) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288698)

You're not alone [vgcats.com] .

Owners of the game: can a left-hander play it? (4, Insightful)

mccalli (323026) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287634)

I'm left-handed, and I already notice that I have to play Rayman Raving Rabids differently to the way they show you on the screen. I was wondering about Zelda, which I understand has Link being right-handed in this instalment.

Now, this isn't a fanboy "Link should be left-handed!" rant, it's a question about whether a left-handed person can play it at all. Are there any settings for left-handers?

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Owners of the game: can a left-hander play it? (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287668)

How you swing the Wiimote has no effect on Links sword movements at all, so if you swing with left or right doesn't matter at all. Most people just shake the remote to trigger a sword move, since swinging it doesn't make a difference.

Re:Owners of the game: can a left-hander play it? (4, Informative)

Tofof (199751) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287716)

No, there's no "left-handed mode" setting or anything like that. However, unlike in, say, Wii Sports, the actual swinging motions you make have no effect on Link's action. Instead, it's basically a direct port from the GC version - instead of pushing a button to attack, you waggle the remote. The actual angle and speed of the swing don't matter - you can't aim the sword with the remote. Instead of the old 'hold b, then release' scheme, you waggle the nunchuck, and Link does his spinning move. The lock-on and jump attacks are all button presses even on the Wii. Bottom line - I'd be shocked if handedness affected it for anyone at all. The only places where you actually do any aiming are the ranged weapons (bow, hookshot equivalent, etc), and those zoom in to a first-person mode with a crosshair - again, Link's handedness shouldn't affect your ability to put the crosshair on the spot you want to shoot.

Re:Owners of the game: can a left-hander play it? (1)

the dark hero (971268) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288540)

just for s*** and giggles i tried playing with the wii-mote in my left hand and navigating with nunchuck in the right and i must say the only problem i had playing this way was my lack of coordination between my cerebral lobes. i caught myself waving the wiimote in the direction i wanted to move in and link was running around a bit drunk looking. otherwise, once i got used to it the mechanics were unaffected. i could slash and aim just fine.

Re:Owners of the game: can a left-hander play it? (1)

Raffscallion (687591) | more than 7 years ago | (#18289426)

Yeah, as a lefty, I can report that Zelda is perfectly playable by southpaws. I hold the nunchuck in my right hand and that seems to work well. There is a bit of an adjustment because the analog stick (used to control Link's movement) is then in the right hand and thus backwards from every controller I grew up with. The Wii system is actually great for lefties because you get a choice.

Re:Owners of the game: can a left-hander play it? (5, Funny)

hal2814 (725639) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288404)

You do have to go out and buy the left-handed nunchuck attachment.

Re:Owners of the game: can a left-hander play it? (1)

haddieman (1033476) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288480)

Being left-handed myself I was wondering the same thing when I bought Twilight Princess. I found out pretty soon though that your 'handedness' doesn't make any difference to how you control the game. I never had any problem doing any of the moves and honestly don't even think about it anymore.

I haven't had any control problems that had anything to do with my being left handed at all though I have had some sensitivity issues with swinging the remote to swing your sword (mostly me just being too lazy and just twitching instead of making a bigger motion).

Re:Owners of the game: can a left-hander play it? (1)

Omestes (471991) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288986)

Actually when I got TP with my Wii I was amazed that I could actually play lefty, I think playing lefty on a console for the first time ever was a bigger deal than the whole motion thing. On all previous consoles all f the movement was for the left, and all of the button mashing is for the right, and as I learned with the silly "chase the Orc and knock of his clothes while on the horse" quest, this leads to drastically underdeveloped D-pad muscles in your right thumb. Thanks to being ambidextrous I can switch it up a bit with no loss of accuracy, though. In TP there really is no difference between which hand you use, to actually answer your question.

Definitely (1)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 7 years ago | (#18290382)

It's playable left-handedly. I'm right handed, but sometimes I've picked up the Wii-mote and "Nunchuck" attachment backward, i.e. Wii-mote in left hand and nunchuck in right hand, without even realizing it until I've played for a while. I like the fact that the controls in games can be swapped this easily and unconsciously... Plus it's great that your hands don't have to be so close together all the time, I found myself using armrests sometimes.

Re:Owners of the game: can a left-hander play it? (1)

dyslexicbunny (940925) | more than 7 years ago | (#18291730)

Being left handed, I thought it might be easier to just play lefty and do things differently so that I was more comfortable. However, I found that it was far less awkward to play righty than I expected and I just played it righty. Considering that we have to adapt a little bit at times to do some things as lefties anyway, I would suggest giving it a shot playing righty. A little bit of ambidextrousness never hurt.

Interesting... but.. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18287654)

I smell bullshit as the wii port was a last minute decision.
Twilight princess for the GC is great without the wii-mote.

What makes Zelda such a great series in the first place, despite the basic retelling of the same story over and over again (with some variations) the gameplay is somehow fundamentally changed in each game, the dungeons become more complex, the environment becomes bigger and more complex, and the characters are unforgettable. Charismatic dialogs and every notable character you come across has a personality of their own in the games.

Then there's the magic tough they put into the series that keeps it fresh. Nintendo has done what many companies wish they could do.

Only series that has been worn out in nintendo's line of first party series is starfox, but hey, how much further can you go with what was originally a tech demo?

Re:Interesting... but.. (-1, Troll)

grumbel (592662) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287752)

### the gameplay is somehow fundamentally changed in each game,

Um, Zelda:TP played like OOT with prettier graphics, took 20 hours to find the first item I hadn't already used to death in previews Zelda games. Fundamental change? Not even remotely.

### Charismatic dialogs and every notable character you come across has a personality of their own in the games.

Yeah, I just love how Thelma said the same f***ing sentence for a good ten or twenty hours, most other characters weren't any better, Midna probably being the only one exception, but even she had problems (i.e. the character gets turned around 180 degree in the last hour).

### Then there's the magic tough they put into the series that keeps it fresh.

For me Zelda:TP feld like rotten fish, sure you can spend time with it and have some fun, but its the same game I have played for the last 20 years and it doesn't exactly get more interesting with the years.

Re:Interesting... but.. (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#18287780)

I can imagine how you feel, for me it was the first Zelda so it is a nice experience. But the boss battle system inherent on consoles, is a pain in the buttocks. I really hate that, most PC rpgs do not have this definitive boss battle system but more a mission based one, which feels more natural, a boss battle can happen, but does not have to. Most console games felt like, go from a to b once you have gone far enough run into the boss. Most pc games feel more along the lines try to accomplish something no matter which way which is closer to life.

Re:Interesting... but.. (1)

el_womble (779715) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288030)

I can definately see where you're coming from. TP was my first Zelda game, I loved it so much that I went out and bought the OOT and WW. They are the same game with subtly different twists. I had a mixed feelings about this. On one hand having the same music and recognisable locations was refreshing, but it was also the same puzzles which I found frustrating. I guess its no different to any other series that has a 40 hour ark built in the same universe and the same core charactors. But OOT and TP were so close that I could play it without feeling like I was playing the same game, but with crudier graphics.

It is an excellent game, but thats because OOT was an excellent game. Better graphics, better interface, slightly less frustrating puzzles - ie a genuine upgrade, not a new game. Depends if you like reliving classics. I know I'd buy a new Monkey Island or X-Wing game in a heart-beat.

Re:Interesting... but.. (1)

Cadallin (863437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288546)

No, its not the same game. It's a Zelda game (Save the Princess!) with new dungeons, and new puzzles. Just like every other Zelda game has always been.

Remember when Wind Waker came out? "Zelda? More like Celda!" and the other protests. People wanted a game more like Ocarina of Time. So Nintendo gave it to us. Twilight Princess is more beautiful than any Zelda before it. (Although I definitely prefer the fishing game in OOT). My only other complain is that the boss battles are too easy, but lets face it, its not that the battles are really any easier than previous Zelda's; its that I've been playing Zelda games for nearly 20 years (and Ocarina of Time occasionally for about 10). Nintendo have simply wanted to keep Zelda accessible to newcomers. I'm willing to simply revel in the beautiful environments and enjoy the experience.

Re:Interesting... but.. (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 7 years ago | (#18289802)

### My only other complain is that the boss battles are too easy, but lets face it, its not that the battles are really any easier than previous Zelda's;

The boss battles are easier *FAR* easier then in other Zeldas. The thing I did after finishing Zelda:TP was to replay "A Link to the Past" and "Links Awakening" to see if nostalgia was blurring my view or if Zelda really used to be better. Surprise, surprise, it really was better. The boss battles in previous Zelda are a lot shorter then in Zelda:TP, they however are also far harder since getting hit actually costs you some hearths an the bosses move in patterns that actually take some challenge to dodge. In Zelda:TP on the other side you can stand around for minutes without ever being remotely in danger. The battles in Zelda:TP are extremely item based, so the only challenge is to find out what to do, not to actually do it. In previous Zelda you had to do both at once while also dodging the boss. Needless to say that I died *a lot* more in ALttP and LA then ever in TP.

Inaccurate wiimote or just dumbed down control? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18287894)

I hoped to see more complex combat in TP (as in requiring skill, not more token special moves), particularly with the wiimote's potential. Unfortunately, the wiimote's introduction really only means waving it around in time rather than pressing buttons in time, which isn't much better than button mashing. I'm not sure if this is the result of the wiimote/sensor not being accurate enough for real swordplay, or if the developers decided to keep it simple for the lowest common denominator (or maybe it seemed too difficult). Whatever the case, TP is a very good game, but still a little gimmicky and tired.

Re:Inaccurate wiimote or just dumbed down control? (1)

fabs64 (657132) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288106)

It's amazing how many people don't get this.. but can you imagine how badly Zelda:TP would sell if half its fanbase weren't "skilled" enough to play it?
I love single player games, I love Zelda, but if you want an actual test of how good you are, that's what online is for. (NB: you will be dissapointed in yourself :-P)

Re:Inaccurate wiimote or just dumbed down control? (1)

Eccles (932) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288616)

It's amazing how many people don't get this.. but can you imagine how badly Zelda:TP would sell if half its fanbase weren't "skilled" enough to play it?

You could have multiple difficulty levels. Granted, this takes away some of the mojo from beating it, but would still give skilled gamers something extra out of the game.

I love Zelda, but if you want an actual test of how good you are, that's what online is for. (NB: you will be disappointed in yourself :-P)

I'm not; they must be cheating somehow! Gotta be an aimbot! My team sucks! :-)

Re:Inaccurate wiimote or just dumbed down control? (1)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#18290576)

The game was (more or less) finished by the time it moved to the Wii ...

Completely re-doing combat at that point in time would have been impossible. I suspect you will see greated Wiimote usage in the Next Zelda game which should be released Q4 2008 (as a guess).

It's fun for gamecube, too (2, Insightful)

Metasquares (555685) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288232)

I bought the Gamecube version of the game and can attest that the game still has plenty of "life" without the Wiimote. This would make sense, considering that the game was originally designed for the Gamecube.

Re:It's fun for gamecube, too (1)

AusIV (950840) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288344)

Same here. I've played through the game on my Gamecube, and played a few parts on a friend's Wii. I didn't feel that the game on the Wii was really any better. I think there are lots of things they could do with Zelda on the Wii, but making it compatible with Gamecube as well was rather limiting.

Re:It's fun for gamecube, too (1)

Bones3D_mac (324952) | more than 7 years ago | (#18292912)

Definitely have to agree on this. After playing the gamecube version for a while now, I have a feeling the Wii's dependence on body movements would only end up becoming a distraction from the gameplay. There's no odd disconnect between the controls of the gamecube version and the user, despite the Wii version being the first version to launch.

I would be interested in hearing more on how the controls from both versions feel relative to each other, though.

Re:It's fun for gamecube, too (1)

steffens (1050246) | more than 7 years ago | (#18293366)

I just recently beat the game on the gamecube and I was pleasantly surprised with how well it played. The first hour or two of game play is linear but that was fine with me because I needed that time to get familiar with the controls (which get explained during that linear portion). After that short period the game expands rapidly in both sheer map size as well as available tasks. Personally, I didn't feel as thought the side storylines were developed well enough to hold my interest very long but I do feel that the developers did a very good job improving upon the design of the other extremely successful LOZ titles.

Drunk Link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18288294)

"The Legend of Zelda? They should call it The Legend of that Dumb Bitch that Can't Stay Out of Trouble! Most I ever got was a subtitle: Link to the Past. Worst. Pun. Ever."

Great game, spotty controls (3, Interesting)

WapoStyle (639758) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288642)

I have enjoyed my time with Twilight Princess so far, I'm just past the "intro" dungeons. (First three) The more I play it, the more it seems like Ocarina of Time with a different story. Perhaps that's not too bad of a thing, that game is fondly remembered for good reason.

My experience with the Wii Remote control system in Zelda is not a very good one. The big problem is the motion detection on the nunchuck attachment. Pushing it forward to do a shield block is an exercise in frustration as it never seems to work. I'll often end up shaking it violently for a few seconds before Link will perform a spin attack. This issue only crops up in Zelda, I never have an issue with motion sensing in Wii Sports.

The only work around I've come across is exploiting line of site with the remote. I discovered the nunchuck is a lot more responsive if you drop the remote down by your side, out of line of sight of the when doing nunchuck movements.

Re:Great game, spotty controls (1)

cowscows (103644) | more than 7 years ago | (#18288806)

I second the difficulty learning to do the shield block consistently. Any time I had a problem doing the spin move ended up being because I was shaking the wrong hand.

I don't think the line of sight stuff you're talking about makes much sense. As far as I'm aware, the nunchuck itself does not communicate with anything other than the remote that it's wired to. Maybe just adjusting the position of your body allowed you to make movements closer to what the game was expecting?

Re:Great game, spotty controls (2, Informative)

SethraLavode (910814) | more than 7 years ago | (#18289586)

I had difficulty with the shield block at first but then I realized I was doing the motion wrong. Instead of moving your hand forward in the thumb+index finger direction, think of the nunchuck as the handle of the shield and move your hand straight forward in the direction of your fingers (which is usually down, depending on how you hold the nunchuck).

Re:Great game, spotty controls (1)

JoshJ (1009085) | more than 7 years ago | (#18297388)

Excellent point. I wish games indicated how you were supposed to orient the controllers. To use warioware terminology, it appears that Zelda wants the Nunchuck in "The Diner A" whereas it wants the Wiimote in "The Diner B" (or "The Remote Control"). This makes sense from a 'sword and shield' perspective.

Madden '07 wants it in "The Diner B"- both wiimote and nunchuck horizontal, otherwise you end up doing a tackle boost when you want to jump to catch a ball.

Re:Great game, spotty controls (1)

Ostrich25 (544788) | more than 7 years ago | (#18291098)

I had a lot of trouble doing the shield block, until I discovered that it works much more reliably if you dip the front of the nunchuck, as though you were cracking a whip (just not nearly as violently). Works like a charm.

Re:Great game, spotty controls (1)

Shippy (123643) | more than 7 years ago | (#18293906)

I had trouble with the shield block for a while, but I found that if I just slow down the thrust and keep it a single, smooth motion it works perfectly.

Re:Great game, spotty controls (1)

Zeussy (868062) | more than 7 years ago | (#18305844)

Agreeing with the people above.

Its not a violent jerky motion I have found. More of a slower smoother push fowards.

I really liked Wind Waker though (2, Informative)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 7 years ago | (#18290076)

I guess I'm one of the minority that thought Wind Waker's style of graphics and game play was the best thing Zelda has ever seen. I'm fine with alienating teen gamers, they have no taste. :)

Re:I really liked Wind Waker though (1)

Rycross (836649) | more than 7 years ago | (#18291804)

No, I loved Wind Waker's graphics. I just hated the game. The sailing aspect really killed it for me. I'd love to see a Wind Waker style Zelda game where travelling to dungeons didn't involve having to go through a huge song and dance (almost literally) just to turn around, and where you didn't have to choose between actually moving and fighting the enemies.

Re:I really liked Wind Waker though (1)

DahGhostfacedFiddlah (470393) | more than 7 years ago | (#18292120)

Second. I loved the graphics style.

Still, I wouldn't want it to get too common either. I wish they'd come up with something just as cool - but completely different - for this Zelda. They do tend to tell the same story over and over in many different ways, but maybe experimental graphics styles could be added to the list of what Zelda is known for.

They already know people are going to buy it - why not use it as a research lab of sorts? Especially for non-dealbreakers like graphics style.

Re:I really liked Wind Waker though (1)

What is a number (652374) | more than 7 years ago | (#18294976)

WW is the only Zelda I've played. It is good enough to make me think (like others) that the Zelda series is one of the best games ever. I can only imagine how good the others must be if everyone thinks WW is near the bottom of the Zelda franchise. Standing alone without the abililty to make comparisons to the other Zeldas, I think it is a great game.

---
I type this every time.

Re:I really liked Wind Waker though (1)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 7 years ago | (#18301454)

My favorite is the original Zelda. it's amazing how big of a world can be packed into an 8-bit console with a tiny bit of RAM and ROM.

And the third one is a favorite of many because of its massive world and storyline. All of the gameboy ones are great because of the attention to puzzles which are often interesting but never frustrating.

Zelda and Wii and a natural fit (1)

Broken Bottle (84695) | more than 7 years ago | (#18290408)

I know that Twilight Princess was developed for GC, but I have to say that it found a great synergy with the Wii and I couldn't imagine it on any other platform. The controller scheme is so natural you forget that you're manipulating the character on screen. After the first initial minutes of play the gestures become so natural you quickly forget about the mechanical stuff. The Wii probably seemed like a gamble to Nintendo when they first started designing it but they really nailed it. The lower end graphics was risky as was the controller scheme since it makes ports a lot less straight forward, but if you play a game well made for the Wii the virtues of the machine are obvious.

Re:Zelda and Wii and a natural fit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18301214)

Mod -1: Synergy

Ambidexio..w/e spelling naxi's kill me~ (1)

Awod (956596) | more than 7 years ago | (#18291084)

^ FTW~

Nintendo was really planning ahead (2, Funny)

AnotherAnonymousUser (972204) | more than 7 years ago | (#18292964)

Don't throw your controller through the TV - Dodongo hates smoke.

Will New Controls Provide New Ideas? (1)

I'll Provide The War (1045190) | more than 7 years ago | (#18293342)

Or is the first real Wii Zelda game going to simply be OoT v1.4?

Re:Will New Controls Provide New Ideas? (1)

Oracle of Bandwidth (528405) | more than 7 years ago | (#18312368)

I sure hope not OoT is the only zelda game I just flat out hate. Love all the others.

This is what happens (1)

Micklewhite (1031232) | more than 7 years ago | (#18296442)

Nintendo really dropped the ball with Twilight Princess, at least as far as animation is concerend. It's a bloody shame, seing as how the Wind Waker is probably one of the best animated games out there.

Oh please (1)

jfz (917930) | more than 7 years ago | (#18297380)

As if the hordes of Zelda fan boys needed such incentives.
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