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DS, PSP Could Claim Supremacy in Console Wars

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the going-to-the-top dept.

Portables (Games) 105

njkid1 passed us another link to a GameDaily article, this one quoting analysts at DFC Intelligence as seeing a sort of usurpation of the console space by portable games. With the DS consistently outselling almost every other system on the market since last year, it's possible that the DS may become the best-selling system 'of all time'. Moreover, portable consoles may actually grow to have a larger market share than their more expensive, high-def cousins. "This comes from DFC's latest report on the portable gaming market, which the firm predicts will exceed $10 billion in worldwide revenue this year, led by the DS. DFC said that the PSP will 'establish a solid position in the marketplace' but that much of the Sony portable's fate will depend on how much effort Sony Computer Entertainment decides to put into promoting the platform over the next few years."

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105 comments

No, no they couldn't (3, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18433949)

But ONE of them could claim supremacy in the handheld wars.

When someone gives us a handheld that has a video output that allows us to play the games on a television, then they can claim supremacy in the console wars (if they outsell the consoles.)

Re:No, no they couldn't (1)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434323)

When someone gives us a handheld that has a video output that allows us to play the games on a television, then they can claim supremacy in the console wars (if they outsell the consoles.)

Like the GP2X [gp2x.co.uk] ? It runs Linux on dual 250MHz CPUs, has TV out, USB host and client hardware, and a whole slew of other wicked features.

Re:No, no they couldn't (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434469)

Yes, but unlike the GP2X, it would have to be a success. Did the GP2X people ever decide to start complying with the GPL?

Re:No, no they couldn't (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18435341)

Yes, once they dropped the third-party that was handling the Linux development. Part of the contract between Gamepark Holdings and MagicEyes (developer of the MMSP2 System-on-Chip) was that another company (can't remember the name) was to do the Linux development. It was that company that was ignoring the GPL. Now that Gamepark Holdings have dropped the third-party developer and do all development themselves, it's all good.

GP2X? Does that have games? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435905)

Like the GP2X? It runs Linux on dual 250MHz CPUs, has TV out, USB host and client hardware, and a whole slew of other wicked features.
Where can I buy one with cash in the United States of America? Where can I buy games for it in the English language comparable to Animal Crossing Wild World, Mario Kart DS, and Me and My Katamari?

Re:GP2X? Does that have games? (1)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436839)

Buy with cash? What is this, 1980? If you insist... The only two 'official' importers in the USA are located in Yorba Linda, CA and Chicago, IL. I imagine if you care to visit them, instead of ordering online, they would be happy to take your cash.

As to English language games... There are only two "real" commercial games, Payback [gp2xstore.com] (port of a GBA game, very cool 3D GTA clone) and Vektar [gp2xstore.com] (retro top-down shooter something like Geometry Wars). But you make the serious mistake of assuming that you have to buy games. There are dozens of free games of commercial quality (Beats of Rage, Quake, Transport Tycoon Deluxe, Ur Quan Masters, Super Mario War, and Tail Teiru come to mind), as well as great emulators for every platform up to SNES (and not so fast emulators for later platforms like PSX) which gives you a library of tens of thousands of games if you are willing to download ROMs (or just hundreds if you only download legal ROMs).

Re:GP2X? Does that have games? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#18437083)

Buy with cash? What is this, 1980?
A lot of people don't want to wait until age 18 to get a checking account so that they can use their birthday money online.

But you make the serious mistake of assuming that you have to buy games. There are dozens of free games of commercial quality (Beats of Rage, Quake, Transport Tycoon Deluxe, Ur Quan Masters, Super Mario War, and Tail Teiru come to mind)
Ur-Quan Masters I can give you because that game was Freed, and Tail Teiru appears to be a Panel de Pon clone or something. But are the assets used in Beats of Rage and Super Mario War even legal, being derived from all-rights-reserved franchises? The assets of Quake and Transport Tycoon Deluxe are still all-rights-reserved; are those still available for sale?

as well as great emulators for every platform up to SNES (and not so fast emulators for later platforms like PSX) which gives you a library of tens of thousands of games
I'm willing to buy Super NES Game Paks and a copier to copy them to a GP2X. What brand of copier do you recommend?

Re:GP2X? Does that have games? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18437317)

I had a checking account and a check card when I was 16, got it toatally spur of the moment (got tired of my mother having to run me to the bank to cash my checks). I'm 22 now, so unless this is something new...

Re:GP2X? Does that have games? (1)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 7 years ago | (#18438481)

Beats of Rage uses copyrighted assets, I think. But OpenBOR, a fork, can use custom game packs and there are plenty of cool third party games for it. Super Mario War also uses copyrighted assets, circa Super Mario Brothers.

Quake can use third party assets like OpenQuartz [sourceforge.net] or the official shareware data [3ddownloads.com] from id. Transport Tycoon Deluxe requires the original data files, which I happen to be lucky enough to own, but would download if not.

I would like to note that OpenTTD and SMW are two excellent examples of SDL portability, both running on many open and closed platforms.

As to dumping your own SNES roms... good luck with that.

then GBA did it then (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18434937)

You could get a connector to plug your Gameboy Advance in to a TV, not the gameboy player but an actuall connetor to the gameboy that went in to RCAs to plug right into your TV. mind you now that Sony has destroyed Liksang, good luck finding it.

Re:No, no they couldn't (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18435431)

So I guess the Vectrex was not a console ?

Re:No, no they couldn't (1)

smcallah (861614) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435579)

Yes, the DS could.

Handheld is short for "handheld CONSOLE" it always has been.

Unless you have some other explanation of how they were named simply, "handhelds."

Re:No, no they couldn't (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435879)

Handheld is short for "handheld CONSOLE" it always has been. Unless you have some other explanation of how they were named simply, "handhelds."

Yes, it's short for handheld gaming system.

HTH, HAND.

If the only name you can imagine that begins with "handheld" is "handheld console", you're sadly lacking in imagination.

Console is a stupid fucking name for gaming systems anyway. A console TV is a TV that is designed to be floor-standing, ditto for a console stereo. Meanwhile, a console is also a control panel on a larger device. Either way it's stupid. But we're stuck with it now, so we might as well avoid further overloading of the name.

Re:No, no they couldn't (1)

smcallah (861614) | more than 7 years ago | (#18446257)

Except they have always been called game consoles.

I don't give a fuck if you think the name is stupid, that's what they're called.

And that is why "handhelds" are handheld game consoles.

That's what handheld is short for, sorry.

My imagination has nothing to do with why they call them consoles.

PSP? (2, Insightful)

StocDred (691816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18433953)

The actual linked story headline is "DS Could Be Best Selling Video Game Platform Ever". Adding the PSP to the Slashdot version is a little skewing.

Re:PSP? (4, Informative)

powerlord (28156) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434081)

You're right, it is skewing. On the other hand, while the PSP has only managed to capture ~21M in sales (versus the ~40M of the DS), either one has managed to sell more than the Wii, PS3, or XBox 360 combined (so far).

Re:PSP? (2, Insightful)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434435)

But is that really a fair comparison?

Both systems were released in late 2004/early 2005 (depending on your region) and have had 2 full years to build their userbase...

Re:PSP? (1)

powerlord (28156) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434759)

You're right, the Wii and PS3 are both fairly new. The XBox 360 on the other hand has had about a year or so, and launched about 9 months after the PSP. Drop ~2.2M units off the PSP, and comparing only the North American numbers (which greatly favors the 360 BTW), shows them to be neck an neck in terms of total unit sales. Factor in other regions similarly, and it looks much grimmer for the XBox.

I'm less familiar with the DS, so I'll leave that comparison for someone else to make, however the other part of the story that I haven't seen mentioned is that for the first time Nintendo has some real competition in the handheld market (versus decimating every other company that has tried to enter it).

Homebrew could be part of it (2, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435985)

however the other part of the story that I haven't seen mentioned is that for the first time Nintendo has some real competition in the handheld market (versus decimating every other company that has tried to enter it).
And this is also the first time that a Nintendo handheld has had a thriving homebrew scene. GBA came close, but like DS commercial games, DS homebrew is actually reaching the non-gaming public with polished products such as MoonShell and DSOrganize, and homebrew equipment is sold in Wal-Mart under the name "MAX Media Dock". Sony, on the other hand, loses sales among homebrew fans every time it updates the PSP firmware.

Re:Homebrew could be part of it (2, Interesting)

DDLKermit007 (911046) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436467)

Largely the homebrew in the US for the DS is due to the fact that people are seeing what Japan has done with DS non-videogame related stuff so exceptionally. All sorts of Kanji learning games, math, quizes, cook-book, etc. The DS has created a completely new kind of market in Japan. I can only dream of similar things happening in the rest of the world.

Re:PSP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18435117)

Looking at it from that perspective, the DS has outsold the Wii, 360, PS3 AND PSP combined.........

And remember those are only shipped numbers for the PSP......

Re:PSP? (1)

Pablo El Vagabundo (775863) | more than 7 years ago | (#18441611)

The Wii will be the first to cross the PSP in ownership and that will happen Q1 2008. It is set to sell around 16 million console this calendar year, add the 3 million for the launch to year end and you are nearly at the PSPs total ownership.

I cannot see anything stop the Wii at the moment, Wii sports will rule the world. Nintendomination!!!

Re:PSP? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18434529)

I am a programmer, working for a game studio. My studio recently shipped a PSP game which is likely to be their last. My boss says that PSP is having abysmal sales figures, and is effectively a dead platform unless Sony pulls a rabbit out of their hat, and finds something to make buying a PSP worthwhile (low price point, AAA game that everyone has to have, etc.). It's not looking hopeful.

DS on the other hand has nothing but a bright future.

Re:PSP? (0, Troll)

toleraen (831634) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434895)

AAA game that everyone has to have

Umm, isn't that your job? Shouldn't you have started out with "My studio recently shipped the greatest PSP game ever"? I could be wrong, but I thought it was the game studios that were supposed to release kick ass games. If you put out a decent game for the PSP, instead of the countless ports I see laying around, I'll buy it. If there's 20 million of us sitting around with PSPs, you'll sell quite a few.

Re:PSP? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18435119)

There's a problem with that logic. First of all, I wasn't a programmer on that project. I was working on something completely different. I've never written ANYTHING for PSP. Second of all, not every game has the same things going for it. AAA games get huge budgets, and multiple years to create. If you spend that much time on a project, it's usually going to be pretty good. If you rush a game to market in 8 months, it's probably not going to be spectacular. A small studio without a large budget is going to very rarely create an AAA game.

Re:PSP? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18435289)

"AAA games get huge budgets, and multiple years to create. If you spend that much time on a project, it's usually going to be pretty good."

In that case, Duke Nukem Forever should be the best game ever created.

Re:PSP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18440731)

"AAA games get huge budgets, and multiple years to create. If you spend that much time on a project, it's usually going to be pretty good."
And the obligatory crack at Romero..
Just look at Daikatana!

Re:PSP? (0, Troll)

Stevecrox (962208) | more than 7 years ago | (#18437189)

Perhaps its because your games suck?
Locoroco, GTA, Tekken, and wipeout are great PSP games they caught my eye and I bought them but on the whole PSP games do suffer. When a developer takes the time to develop a proper PSP game like the ones listed they rock and they stay high in the charts forever (last time I checked game excusing wipeout all three were in the top ten.) The problem is multiplatform releases with awfull porting and rubbish games.
I own Lego Star Wars 2, I didn't get the PS2 version because I was looking for a game for my PSP at the time. You can see Lego Star Wars is a great game I know it is because i bought it for the PS2 as well. But the PSP port has some serious flaws (like when you flick the device on I have to wait two to three minutes to resume my play) it will freeze for loading, their no audio, the list goes on and on. Alot of the multiplatform released PSP games I've bought suffer this problem, its like the developers have just tacked a few lines of code into the game to make it run on a PSP. GTA has an amazing PSP engine, its just WOW. Tekken looks better than my Tekken Tag on the PS2, Wipeout seems to be a game designed to take advantage of every feature built into a PSP. You want to sell take the time!
Locoroco is an example of a good game that has nothing to do with the PS2 or other ports, you can pick it up at the drop of a hat its simple but fun (Yes I know everyone things its really weird when they first see it) but instead of game developers seeing it and trying something similar they release their own version of Mercury which sucks. Other examples would be games like Ghost Rider where you can take you eyes of the screen and hit two buttons so you can get through the gameplay and see some story.
Your a game developer give me an original game, one that takes advantage of the PSP, that I can flick off from standby and play in seconds (umm like GTA,Tekken,Wipeout) that isn't anouther puzzle game. Oh some small advice if you have a low budget then most of the time the game won't sell that well, big games these days make it because of big budgets, thats not always true but its a start as it shows your taking the thing seriously. I currently own 12 PSP games (got one at launch) only 12 games from launch caught my eye, I got a PS2 two years before my PSP and own about 50/60 games. Perhaps this tells us something about the quality of games PSP devs are turning out? Oh and 21 million PSP's is abysmal? I am surprised that after all this time the PSP is still £179.99 but 21 million isn't bad by any means.
PS I am actually hugely pro PSP but there can be 6 months between a good game releases, which is ok for me since it takes me about 4/5 months to get through most PSP games.

Re:PSP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18437269)

Just so you know, I'm the same guy you replied to. What you don't seem to understand is that the PSP is not a PS2. Whatever Sony says about the platform, just trust me, it's not a portable PS2. It's actually seriously underpowered, and there's probably a reason that PS2 versions of games will always be better than the PSP versions. Like I said in my other post, I've not written a single line of code for the PSP, but I know people who have. They tend to think that PSP stands for Piece of Shit Portable. It tries to be a PS2, but it just lacks any sort of horsepower.

Re:PSP? (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 7 years ago | (#18440741)

Why don't you log in on your slashID so we can identify you and refute your claims?

You have nothing to fear on Slashdot, there is much love for the DS and little for Sony here, some of us might be inclined to take you more seriously then.

For god's sake shut the fuck up about videogames (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18434039)

slashdot is not the place to post random specuulation bullshit

you worthless fucking nerds

What about software sales? (2, Interesting)

GoodbyeBlueSky1 (176887) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434133)

I don't know about everyone else, but does owning a handheld even impact playing games at home? I own a PSP and, quality of titles notwithstanding, never play it unless I'm commuting or traveling somewhere. When I'm home, I have no desire to play a portable system since I can play a more powerful, more immersive game on my TV.

So, my point: Is installed user-base all there is to care about? Don't Sony/MS/Nintendo make the bulk of their profits on the games? I'd be more interested in seeing the ratio of portable to non-portable games sold. Maybe they are in fact on to something here, but hardware sales numbers don't really tell the whole story.

Also I'm getting tired of these articles that claim to forecast "the answer" after one holiday season of incredible hardware droughts for several systems which forced many buyers to go to their plan B or C anyway.

Re:What about software sales? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434195)

When I'm home, I have no desire to play a portable system since I can play a more powerful, more immersive game on my TV.

The factors that matter to me don't involve more powerful, or more "immersive" (since a handheld game can be plenty immersive.) They are the screen size and the controller quality. Playing tetris on the GBA SP for too long hurts my hands. I can play much longer using a real controller.

Re:What about software sales? (1)

PitaBred (632671) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435711)

You should try a DS. It's much wider than the SP, so it's more comfortable to play on. I've played FF:TA for hours without issue.

Re:What about software sales? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435763)

Sure, as soon as I pull some money out of my ass, I'll probably get a DS. But I already blew my portable system cash wad for quite some time on the SP. Maybe if I find some alternative purpose to which I can put the SP, I'll buy a DS :)

Re:What about software sales? (1)

PitaBred (632671) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436041)

GameStop is your friend ;) Used systems are available at pretty good prices. I buy over half of my games there, as well as a few systems. Tons of people don't buy games new and don't like them, or want money to get new ones so sell their great old ones (FF:TA, Sonic the Hedgehog, etc.). Usually kids who don't have any income stream.

Re:What about software sales? (1)

blackicye (760472) | more than 7 years ago | (#18440751)

IMO, FFT:A (Final Fantasy Tactics : Advance) on the DS is kinda tiring, the screen is too small, I found myself sticking the cart back into my GBA when playing FFT:A.

Having a blast replaying FF: Tactics on my 3.10OE-A' PSP though (and yes I own the original PSX game, multiple copies of it)

Yes, Tetris Worlds sucked. Your point? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436051)

Playing tetris on the GBA SP for too long hurts my hands.
This is Tetris Worlds, the one with infinite spin [ytmnd.com] , right? Perhaps it's the laggy reaction of the scripting engine that TW was implemented in that hurts your hands, not the controller itself.

Re:Yes, Tetris Worlds sucked. Your point? (2, Insightful)

Shabadage (1037824) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436325)

More likely the person in question has large hands. As much as I wanted the SP, I found I couldn't play it for more than a half an hour or so without some massive hand cramps, from clawing my huge paws around the tiny system. So I kept my original GBA. I had the same problem with the Dreamcast, though that was due to the extremely awkward trigger buttons (And D Pad)

Now that I think about it, I'm glad I never tried a GB Micro.

The DS-Lite fits in my mits perfectly, thankfully.

Re:Yes, Tetris Worlds sucked. Your point? (2, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18443445)

More likely the person in question has large hands.

CORRECTaMUNDO! I'm bloody gigantic and so are my hands. In fact googling slashdot alone will probably turn up several hits with me bitching about Microsoft dropping the full-size controller for the S on the Xbox.

And the version of Tetris that I typically play on the SP is the original. The kind where the cart sticks way out.

But he was right about one thing; Tetris Worlds does suck.

Re:Yes, Tetris Worlds sucked. Your point? (1)

Shabadage (1037824) | more than 7 years ago | (#18447177)

Heh, that's intersting, as I love the S-type controllers. I could never hit just the black or white button on the old ones, and usually managed to mash both buttons at once. I actually found the older ones to be a bit uncomfortable after a long period of time (Unlike the SP and DC which was almost immediate).

Re:What about software sales? (1)

EastCoastSurfer (310758) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434309)

I play my DS at home all the time. There are many games for it that don't have comparable games on any of the consoles. The brain games or even the Castlevanias come to mind as games that have no counter parts on any of the consoles.

Re:What about software sales? (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434461)

I purchased Age of Empires DS with my video game allowance for the month specifically to play at home (while the TV is on to a show my wife likes but I hate or when my brain is too fried to read before I go to sleep). I buy 1 game/month and try to keep it under $30.00, that leans me towards the DS a lot too.

The DS is about 60% of my game spending, and the other 30% is probably split console/computer.

Re:What about software sales? (4, Insightful)

harrkev (623093) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434507)

I play my DS at home. In fact, 90% of all of my play is at home. It works great! Here are the plusses of this platform:

When my wife is watching a movie, I can still sit next to her on the sofa and still play. No retreating to the other room.

Because the DS "pauses" when the screen is closed, I can open it up for 5-10 minutes of an RPG. This is one of the biggest selling points. With a console, you have to play until you get to a "save point," or risk looking your progress, or you could just pause and leave it on for a few days until you have enough time to get back to it. With a busy day, sometimes it is not even worth it to fire up the console.

The DS is also by far the cheapest of the "current" gaming hardware. $130 for a DS. $200 for a PSP. Consoles are $250 on up.

DS is the best seller for much the same reason that Toyotas sell better than BMW.

Re:What about software sales? (1)

powerlord (28156) | more than 7 years ago | (#18438811)

When my wife is watching a movie, I can still sit next to her on the sofa and still play. No retreating to the other room.


You're lucky, my wife would KILL me if I was playing a video game while we were supposed to be sitting next to each other and watching TV. :)

Re:What about software sales? (2, Funny)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 7 years ago | (#18439371)

My girlfriend would try to kill me, but I have remote control bombs and 7 skates now. Bwahahahaha.... Oh shit, she just got superbombs. Got to go!

Re:What about software sales? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18441607)

Was that supposed to be funny or something? The post reads more like you forgot to take your anti-psychotics this morning. Somehow I doubt a guy that _pays_ Slashdot for their garbage has the personality to pick up a girl.

Re:What about software sales? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18441107)

"DS is the best seller for much the same reason that Toyotas sell better than BMW."

Because they look nice on the outside, but inside they haven't got much power? Yeah, that sounds about right. The DS is the Toyota Camry of video gaming.

Re:What about software sales? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18448329)

No, because it does the same thing for less money. The only real difference is what some elitist assholes might think of you, but who really gives a fuck about their opinions?

Re:What about software sales? (1)

Frumply (999178) | more than 7 years ago | (#18442669)

What's with almost every pro-DS post pointing out the sleep mode feature? The PSP can do the exact same thing by tapping the power button.

Re:What about software sales? (2, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 7 years ago | (#18443041)

It may sound silly, but there really is a certain simplicity in being able to just flip the DS shut, rather than having to track down the power button. Yeah, it's a minor difference, and once you get used to the location of the power button there's probably no difference at all, but the DS just feels... easy. *shrug*

Re:What about software sales? (2, Informative)

Frumply (999178) | more than 7 years ago | (#18443497)

I got the DS after I've had a PSP for about a year, and I felt exactly the opposite - since I was used to the PSP sleep mode, I was constantly turning off DS games in progress by accident. This is obviously a matter of preference, and while I like the DS's sleep mode now that I know how it works, I still believe the PSP's a little more idiot-proof, as you have to consciously hold onto the power to shut it down.

Re:What about software sales? (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 7 years ago | (#18444557)

That's actually a very good point... I've accidentally turned off my DS on more than one occasion. 'course, this would be easily fixed by, as you say, having to hold the power button down for a few seconds.

However, that's not really related to the flip-shut-to-sleep feature, aside from the fact that PSP owners may need to break their habits, lest they get an unpleasant surprise. :)

Re:What about software sales? (1)

damagemanual (1072736) | more than 7 years ago | (#18443431)

I do the same with my wife when she's watching American Idol. She seems to be cool with that, it's when I'm sitting across the room on the computer when she gets pissed off.

Re:What about software sales? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434537)

I don't know about US sales (those are hard to come by) but in Japan the DS keeps claiming more than 50% of the top 30 game sales every week. Other consoles get maybe one or two games into the list while the DS dominates everything.

Re:What about software sales? (1)

lmnfrs (829146) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434575)

"So, my point: Is installed user-base all there is to care about? Don't Sony/MS/Nintendo make the bulk of their profits on the games?"

Maybe, but MS and Sony take hits on their hardware, the size of which depends on where the console is in its life cycle.. Nintendo does not take a hit. Even if the same number of DS and PSP units were sold, and on average PSP owners purchased more games than DS owners, Nintendo would still be making as much money as Sony or possibly even more.
Given that Nintendo has sold about twice as many units as Sony, they're making a ton more than Sony is.

Re:What about software sales? (3, Interesting)

Osty (16825) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434657)

When I'm home, I have no desire to play a portable system since I can play a more powerful, more immersive game on my TV.

That's where Sony screwed up with the PSP. Handhelds can never be as powerful or as immersive as the current consoles (that is, a PSP is about as powerful as a Playstation 1. When there's a PSP that's as powerful as a Playstation 3, the Playstation 5 will be available). You don't get people to play handhelds by taking a console game and just porting it over. I played GTA:LCS on PS2, and there's no way I'd play that on a portable. You need quick, stop/start gameplay that's easy to pick up and put back down again. The DS is killing the PSP because Nintendo "gets it" and Sony doesn't. Take the Warioware series of games, for example. They consist of short 5-second minigames strung back to back for a ~5 minute playing experience. I loved the first two on the GBA, and Touched on the DS was excellent as well. I never bothered to pick up the Gamecube title because the gameplay just didn't make sense.

Oddly enough, the Wii seems to be moving towards the portable style of gameplay. You can pick up Wii Sports, play a 5-minute game of tennis or a round of boxing, put it down, and walk away. Arguably the best games on the system (not counting Zelda, since that was essentially a GC game ported to Wii) have been of the same mold: Rayman Raving Rabbids and Warioware Smooth Moves really show off what you can do with the WiiMote in short bursts of mini-game madness that's easy to jump right into and easy to walk away from. As much as I enjoy a good game of Dead Rising or Gears of War on my 360, I find myself going to the Wii when I've got 15 minutes to spare.

Re:What about software sales? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18434959)

>That's where Sony screwed up with the PSP. Handhelds can never be as powerful or as immersive as the current consoles (that is, a PSP is about as powerful as a Playstation 1

The PSP is slightly less powerful than a *PS2* (166mhz or so?), and the majority of the initial games were pretty direct PS2 ports. Not having to deal with an interlaced screen / sketchy progressive support makes the display arguably better than most ps2 titles.

Re:What about software sales? (2, Insightful)

Jim Hall (2985) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435273)

You don't get people to play handhelds by taking a console game and just porting it over. I played GTA:LCS on PS2, and there's no way I'd play that on a portable. You need quick, stop/start gameplay that's easy to pick up and put back down again. The DS is killing the PSP because Nintendo "gets it" and Sony doesn't. Take the Warioware series of games, for example. They consist of short 5-second minigames strung back to back for a ~5 minute playing experience. I loved the first two on the GBA, and Touched on the DS was excellent as well. I never bothered to pick up the Gamecube title because the gameplay just didn't make sense.

I disagree. While short pick-up games are important for a handheld system like the PSP (for example: Lumines) the fact that you can put the PSP to sleep makes it more appealing to me on longer games. I played GTA:Liberty City Stories on the PSP, and loved it. Daxter was simply amazing. I still play my copy of Star Wars: Battlefront II on a regular basis - it may take 2 or 3 sessions of available gameplay time to finish a campaign ("campaign" is a sort of chess-like game, with skirmishes at each planet) but I put the PSP to sleep between sessions so it's not a problem.

Handheld exclusive titles (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436025)

I own a PSP and, quality of titles notwithstanding, never play it unless I'm commuting or traveling somewhere. When I'm home, I have no desire to play a portable system since I can play a more powerful, more immersive game on my TV.
Wasn't Lumines a PSP exclusive for the longest time? Aren't most popular DS games still DS exclusive? Your real complaint is that handhelds don't have TV outputs.

Re:What about software sales? (1)

PygmySurfer (442860) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436535)

I don't know about everyone else, but does owning a handheld even impact playing games at home? I own a PSP and, quality of titles notwithstanding, never play it unless I'm commuting or traveling somewhere. When I'm home, I have no desire to play a portable system since I can play a more powerful, more immersive game on my TV.

I leave my DS in the bathroom (I have a PSP somewhere, but its just about useless).

Sometimes I'll pick up my DS and play for a bit while watching TV, or sitting on con-calls for work. The nice thing about it is you can close the lid and it'll sleep, so its easy to pick it up for a few minutes, put it down when something more pressing requires your attention, and then pick it up later.

IMHO this article is pretty stupid, though - I consider the Wii to be in a different category than the PS3 and Xbox 360 - the DS and PSP would be in another category entirely.

Re:What about software sales? (3, Insightful)

Frogbert (589961) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436571)

My situation is kind of different. I have a girlfriend and a full time job. The only time I get to sit down in front of a computer to play games is on the weekend. Week days are taken up with cooking, cleaning and generally living. I simply don't have time to sit down for an extended session of Civ or CS or whatever. I went and got myself a DS for Christmas and I love it. The games aren't necessarily better or that much different to what I could be playing on PC. However I can now sit next to my girlfriend when she is watching Gilmore Girls while I play. Furthermore when something happens that demands my attention I can just quickly close my DS and give that attention. It pauses my game and will stay like that for days before the batteries run out. Now I'm on the look out for a PSP as well.

DS@Home (1)

metamatic (202216) | more than 7 years ago | (#18438913)

A quick session of Animal Crossing in bed is a good way to wind down.

The other night I took a bath and played New Super Mario Brothers.

Or perhaps you're cooking something and want to keep an eye on it, but could play a quick game of Hearts while doing so.

I didn't expect to play on the DS while at home, but it has worked out that way.

And why the hell not? (3, Insightful)

nickj6282 (896871) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434219)

The DS may just be the perfect gaming machine. It's kid-friendly with plenty of titles to appeal to youngsters, but it's adult friendly too in the fact that you can pick it up and play it when you've only got a few minutes to spare. Just flip it closed and it goes into standby until you open it back up.

Plus there's the price point. Parents can pick one up for $130, which way less than a PSP, and games are not more than $34.99 each (with rare exceptions). They can choose from DS and GBA titles, which also appeals to parents because they can keep playing their old games too.

As both a gamer and a parent, I can say that I play my DS far more than Xbox 360, Wii, and PS2 combined. I own more DS/GBA games than all three combined too, just because they are cheaper and often much more fun (New SMB anyone?)

Re:And why the hell not? (1)

iamhassi (659463) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435509)

"The DS may just be the perfect gaming machine... but it's adult friendly too in the fact that you can pick it up and play it when you've only got a few minutes to spare. Just flip it closed and it goes into standby until you open it back up."

give me +5 Flamebait but i'm sooo tired of all the DS fanboy crap I read online. Your big argument that it's "adult friendly" is that you can put it in standby easily? So if the only game it played was tic-tac-toe it'd still be "adult friendly", right?

I'm an adult and I've played the DS and just hate the games for it. It's a great system, and stupid DS fanboys keep me going back to the DS and playing it thinking something's change but it hasn't, the games still look crappy, even Metroid looked jagged compared to PSP games like Metal Gear Solid [gamespy.com] (video [youtube.com] ), Prince of Persia Revelations [gamespot.com] (video [youtube.com] , more video [youtube.com] ) or Call of Duty [gamechronicles.com] (video [youtube.com] ).

Here's a great video comparison: True Swing golf for DS [youtube.com] vs Tiger Woods PGA 07 for PSP [youtube.com]

Those are adult games with adult graphics, I'm tired of playing Mario with cutesy graphics and a having to use a klunky stylus, especially when the DS is suppose to be a portable system.

Re:And why the hell not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18435989)

Adults don't use the word "fanboy", or try to prove that a video game system is better because of fancy graphics. It's not a stretch at all to say that the most important aspect of a game system to an adult is how well it's designed to integrate with a busy life.

Re:And why the hell not? (1)

Shabadage (1037824) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436493)

Adulthood Maturity Especially when one starts comparing the gameplay of one system to the graphics of another. Anyway, the most important aspect of a games system to me is "What games are fun?". Advance Wars DS, Age of Empires, and counteless other Strat games have kept me glued to my DS for months and months. If someone would just port MOO2 over to it, the world would never see me again. I love FPS games as well, and I'm not willing to used bastardized PSP controls to play one. Pressing buttons to Aim up and down went out with the N64. It is NOT an acceptable replacement for an analog stick. While the analog emulation on the DS isn't perfect; it's better than acceptable, and makes FPS (IMO) far superior on the DS versus the Psp; regardless of graphics. I already have a PS2, and besides 2 or 3 games that don't really interest me; most of the games on the PSP are ports of PS2 games that I already don't play. Though I'm sure a Front Mission game on the PSP would convince me to purchase one.

Re:And why the hell not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18438839)

Wow, if "adult games" means golf you can count me right out.

Re:And why the hell not? (1)

benzapp (464105) | more than 7 years ago | (#18442183)

This is very true. Here in New York City, I see 10-20x as many adults playing PSP units on the subway every morning as compared to DSs. In fact, when I DO see a DS on the subway, it's usually a high school kid commuting (high schools are specialized in NYC - people commute to them from all over the city).

If it wasn't for slashdot, I'd honestly think the DS was as much of a failure as the Gamecube was. The games don't seem that good, the entire concept seems kinda ridiculous, and the graphics - you nailed it.

Somehow, I believe Nintendo is fudging the numbers or the entire online world is corrupt.

Never before have I noticed such an incredible disconnect between reality and the online world.

Re:And why the hell not? (2, Informative)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 7 years ago | (#18442609)

Somehow, I believe Nintendo is fudging the numbers or the entire online world is corrupt.

Never before have I noticed such an incredible disconnect between reality and the online world.

Consider it regional preferences. What is popular in NYC, may not be popular in Paris, or Tokyo, etc... I personally see Far more DS's and GBA SP's than PSPs, but I understand what is popular in my area isn't representitive of the world.

Re:And why the hell not? (1)

benzapp (464105) | more than 7 years ago | (#18449929)

I've considered this - but I don't think there are many posters on slashdot from those cities. As most posters are American, I would expect that the city with the most public transportation options would have the highest per capita ownership of portable systems, at least amongst adults.

There also isn't anything else I can think of that it uniquely regional in New York City, besides perhaps the aforementioned extensive public transportation system. Why would a portable gaming system lend itself to such a regional difference?

I think your example would perhaps make sense if you could name a similar peculiar product that is unusually popular in your own locale.

Re:And why the hell not? (1)

Bwana Geek (1033040) | more than 7 years ago | (#18442763)

Really? Wow... Here in Ottawa, I've only ever seen three people playing PSPs, and out of all my friends and acquaintances, there's only one that I know of that owns one. I've probably seen at least 5-6 times as many DSes out there, and six of my close friends own one. For what it's worth, I'm 31 and my friends range in age from early 20s to early 30s.

I'm actually considering getting a PSP. I think it's a beautiful system, it was just out of my price range when I was shopping for a handheld. Now that you can pick up a used PSP for about the same price as a new DS ($150 Canadian), it's looking more attractive to me. I won't be ditching my DS any time soon, though.

Re:And why the hell not? (1)

benzapp (464105) | more than 7 years ago | (#18449991)

Do you take public transportation?

I've seen that many PSP users in Montreal, and that was just during a week in January when I was there on business. I saw 2 people on the metro and 1 at the airport.

I mean, the point here is there is a certain kind of person - I've never met them - who get portable gaming systems, but drive to work, don't really travel, etc. I don't really know WHY anyone would do that, but that may be your social circle. I don't think that is widespread, at least amongst adults.

Re:And why the hell not? (2, Funny)

toolie (22684) | more than 7 years ago | (#18444395)

Never before have I noticed such an incredible disconnect between reality and the online world.

Did you really just equate New York City to reality? ;)

PSP?? (0, Troll)

httpamphibio.us (579491) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434265)

Ok... the DS is a huge huge success... but PSP? It shouldn't even be in the same paragraph as the DS. It's sales are terrible.

Re:PSP?? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18435231)

21 million.. Yeah, HUGE failure there... I wish I could sell such a disasterous product.

Re:PSP?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18436453)

BS. Sony has flooded the market with psp's that no ones buying. One doesn't drop production of successful gaming devices to 10,000 if they're "winning".

Re:PSP?? (1)

rgravina (520410) | more than 7 years ago | (#18439439)

What I don't get is why people equate sales with the quality of a product (I'm not saying the parent did this, but I have to post somewhere). PCs with Windows outsell Macs. Britney Spears outsells [insert your favourite non-pop artist here]. Does it make them better? Of course not. It just means more people like the DS than the PSP, or buy it because that's what everyone else is using. As a PSP owner, do I give a rats? No, not really... unless of course that stops games developers producing quality titles for the PSP. Sure the PSP is $50 more expensive than the DS, but if you think about it that's just one, maybe two games. DS games are only slightly cheaper than PSP games, and in most cases the same price. I'd rather get a game like GTA, Metal Gear Acid 2/Portable Ops, or any of the other console-quality games for my PSP than some stupid little toy game that tries too hard to use the stylus. From my browsing of the DS shelves at stores, I rarely come across a DS game that interests me (I'm NOT paying $40 for a simple game of cards that I could probably program myself if I wanted to). $40 for GTA or portable ops? Sure, now you're talking.

Re:PSP?? (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 7 years ago | (#18440809)

That's kind of the point of all this. Every time we normally look at PSP sales, journalists just compare with the DS, which is still absolutely kicking its backside all round the park. But at over 20 million machines, the PSP is actually doing rather well in comparison to the home console market - sales figures usually show it selling around the level the 360 does these days, or even more.

Re:PSP?? (1)

nickj6282 (896871) | more than 7 years ago | (#18448835)

Lately, the Target, Walmart, and Best Buy nearest my home have been selling out of DSes on a regular basis. Not as bad now as before the holidays, but once every few weeks one of the stores is out. I've never seen the PSP sold out anywhere, not even on launch day.

No shit... (4, Insightful)

7Prime (871679) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434291)

I've been saying this for quite some time now. Out of this generation, the DS will likely be the console winner. I'm not just talking about raw sales, the GBA outsold the PS2 by a lot, but it was still thought of as being a very very different kind of machine. No, what I mean by "winner" is "winner" in the truist sense of the word: competing head to head with the 360, PS3 and Wii, as a console, not just as a handheld console.

Firstly, the DS has the ability to play the same kinds of games that the 360, PS3, and Wii (a little less so) can. For the first time in over a decade, we're seeing canonic games of major series (and not just "handheld spinoffs") coming onto a handheld. Not only that, but it doesn't really feel like "just a handheld" anymore. The DS has things, above and beyond portability, that no other system can do... so there are reasons for purchasing it and playing it, even if your not interested in the portability. No other handheld system can claim this, outside a few very minor exceptions.

When I play a DS, it feels more like I'm playing a TV-based console, then a GBA. It's got a solid, robust design, the screen is incredibly clear, and it has full 3D graphics, that, for the screen resolution, can sit right next to the GameCube.

Just watch, many series are going to jump ship from TV-consoles. We're already seeing it start to happen.

Re:No shit... (0)

brkello (642429) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434837)

Yeah, that sounds great, except the DS isn't a freaking console.

Re:No shit... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18436495)

Yes it is. It's a handheld console.

Re:No shit... (0, Flamebait)

eboot (697478) | more than 7 years ago | (#18441129)

Shit, this guy is a freaking genius. His powers of observation have awed me

Re:No shit... (2, Insightful)

powerlord (28156) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435111)

For the first time in over a decade, we're seeing canonic games of major series (and not just "handheld spinoffs") coming onto a handheld. Not only that, but it doesn't really feel like "just a handheld" anymore.


With all due respect for the DS, which is a great system, the few "cross platform" games that have included the DS have usually had a very different or drastically reduced game made for it, versus the 360, PS2/3, or GC/Wii. (Lego StarWars II is the example that comes to my mind), please provide counter examples.

I will agree with you 100% that this generation of handheld (DS & PSP) provide the same "console" experience in a portable platform, something that the previous generation couldn't think of doing.

Re:No shit... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18435203)

One example would be that SquareEnix is set to release Dragon Quest 9 (a premiere series for them, bigger than Final Fantasy in Japan though less so in the US) for the DS. Not an offshoot game or anything, a straight numbered release of one of their biggest franchises going portable.

Re:No shit... (1)

7Prime (871679) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436529)

Oh, for sure. For a console which has fairly unique design characteristics, like the DS or the Wii, the best games are always going to be those that are specifically designed with those consoles in mind. The control schemes for the DS and the Wii, while unique and provide for some new gameplay, aren't neccessarilly "better" than the older setups, they're just different, which means that they have the possibility of being pretty weak in emulating traditional control schemes (Mario 64 DS comes to mind). Both of these consoles are designed in such a way that most of the games HAVE to be exclusives, not because of contractual agreements, but because they must be designed specifically for that system, from the ground up. I think games created specifically with one console in mind are generally superior, although the 360 and the PS3 are close enough, from the user's standpoint, they can get away with it, to a certain point.

In any case, I don't see "strength of ported games" as a very good measure of a console's abilities; after all, we buy one console over another because they can play games that other consoles can't. The DS has that in spades... there are virtually no games originally designed for the DS that have been ported over to other systems, which can be attributed partially to the console's success.

Handhelds sell more units? (1)

Applekid (993327) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434489)

A) Home consoles only get demos in stores and homes. To "sell" a casual friend on your experience you'll probably have them over at your home. I would say I only regularly visit and get visits from maybe 3 of my friends, the really close ones. Meanwhile I play my DS lots of places in public where there's a queue to be made and the "ooh, that's neat!" factor from friends I'm less familiar with means more exposure.

B) Multiplayer on home consoles just needs one system and a few controllers. Handhelds require a system purchase to link up and play with each other. I remember picking up a GBA to enjoy Four Swords with my buds. Now that I think about it, could the big push for online multiplayer on home consoles be a stab to get more sales of hardware bigger than just a controller?

Re:Handhelds sell more units? (1)

powerlord (28156) | more than 7 years ago | (#18438903)

Now that I think about it, could the big push for online multiplayer on home consoles be a stab to get more sales of hardware bigger than just a controller?


I think the push for on-line multiplayer is coming because of the growth in broadband availability (once you have it in your home already, you can use it for lots of things), and the aging of the average gamer.

As people get older, they tend to drift apart geographically. It might be harder to get together because you're in a different city, or it would take two hours travel to see each other. On-line gaming can help people who are used to playing together, continue the experience, especially as Voice chat is integrated more and more.

Low cost + Simplicity + Compatibility = Success (4, Insightful)

Andrew Lenahan (912846) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434647)

The DS is successful because it provides simplicity and compatibility in a low-cost package.

The DS is simple. I put in a game, I turn it on, I play it. I'm not told to join an online service, or pay for "points" for microtrasactions, or update firmware, or create a profile, or enter a password, or set up family accounts, or download patches, or view my online achievement scores, or update billing information, etc. (Note: it's true the DS can play over the internet using Wi-Fi, but the feature isn't very prominent and a lot of avid DS players don't even know about it). My DS is happy with being a little machine for games. It doesn't want to run my life, and I think a lot of casual-to-moderate gamers don't really want their console to become an online/entertainment hub. The games are the thing.

The DS is compatible. Not only does it have a lot of very nice games of its own, its backed by the massive Game Boy Advance library, with all sorts of treasures. I think pretty much everybody is getting the idea that backward-compatibility is the only way to go these days. While this is porbably good news for consumers (a PS3 is able to play 13 years worth of legacy games, for example) it'll be interesting to see if any other consoles are able to survive in such a market, building a stable of titles from the ground up. N-Gage, Gizmondo, and Zodiac all crashed and burned, for example.

The DS has a very very low entry price point. With a new DS lite running about $130 and a used original DS weighing in around $70 or so, the DS is by far the cheapest entry point to the current generation of systems. Unfortunately I think console manufacturers have lost sight of how much the public are really willing to pay for games, and the current console bunch (PS3 in particular) are prohibitively expensive for the masses. The people who make games and systems for a living tend to focus on those who eat, sleep, and breathe videogames, and forget that for every customer who would give up a kidney and wait in line for a week for a limited-edition Halo sequel in an exclusive holographic slipcase, there's a thousand parents who just want something fun for the kids to do on long car rides, or a suduku simulator to make the morning commute more bearable.

The current systems lineup offers something for everyone and an amount of diversity we've never seen before. Regardless of how it turns out, we're all in for a hell of a fun ride.

Valid Comparison? (1)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434863)

The summary is like proclaiming Toyota's victory over BMW, because they ship more cars per year. I believe consoles and handhelds exist in markets that overlap in only limited ways, so there's no real "victory" over the other.

About 8 years too late. (1)

Shabadage (1037824) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435377)

Uh yeah; where were these "New Schools" of thought 8 years ago when the original GB was outselling (Even outsold the PS2; 118 million to 115 Million) everything? Portable systems outselling consoles isn't a new trend by any means. If there's anything to be surprised about, it should be that the GBA only sold about half the amount (69 mill) of the original GB. Granted the time between GB/GBA (GBC was a market test for the GBA) and the GBA/DS was roughly twice as long as well. There wasn't much growth in the handheld market (only about 5% if you do the figures).

The DS on the other hand, is making the handheld market EXPLODE. (New customer base! Hurrah!). I wouldn't be surprised

The DS has ALREADY sold more unit than the ENTIRE "Next Generation" (Aimed at the linked article in the /. post)

DS + Virtual Console (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18435669)

So, when will I be able to upload VC games from the Wii to my DS?

That would be the killer app that would make the current Virtual Console prices (which are too high, IMO) totally worth it.

Come on Nintendo, Sony's ahead of you on this one!

D.

Re:DS + Virtual Console (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436147)

So, when will I be able to upload VC games from the Wii to my DS?
The first letter of "right now" is Arrrr. [pocketnes.org]

DS Maybe but PSP?? (1)

Psx29 (538840) | more than 7 years ago | (#18438911)

PSP uses the same stupid asinine mentality of the PS3 but now in the palm of your hand "BIGGER, BETTER, BADDER!" with games that look pretty and chuck gameplay in as an afterthought half the time, sony tried to make it a portable media hub and it's still expensive as hell to boot. PSP is the same mentality as the PS3 and therefore doesn't stand any real extra chance of succeeding. The DS on the other hand, has already proven that the simpler and more addictive games the better. Hell my friend who isn't into to videogames just told me she wants a DS...

Re:DS Maybe but PSP?? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18443017)

Bigger, Better, Badder is important when you want to play sports, racing, or fighting games on the go. The DS receives and F in all three of those catagories.

Personally, I bought into Nintendo's hype and I own both a DS and a Wii. I play Brain Age and Clubhouse games on the DS, but other than that I can't find another game I want to buy that I haven't beaten already. Furthermore, there aren't any games coming out that interest me until Zelda, which is fall time. The Wii is even worse. I beat Zelda and kicked myself for buying Red Steel. Now I can't find a single player game worth buying and there won't be one until fall time. . .

But then I go to the internet and read about how "Nintendo has all the games," and how the "DS has something for everyone." Right now Nintendo has POTENTIAL, but they don't have the titles. Backwards compatability really saved these two systems for me - my Wii is mostly used for VC and GC games while the DS is mostly used for GBA titles.

Ugh, PSP (1)

Drew McKinney (1075313) | more than 7 years ago | (#18439419)

I travel every week for work (~2 hour flight each way). I originally purchased a used PSP at gamestop and two games for ~$250. I hated it - the controls were terrible, the games were substandard ports, and it was wayyyyy too bulky. The next day I returned it. A week later, after a lot of searching, i found a DS Lite and my gaming life has been a breeze ever since. Its small, light, durable, and the games are exactly what I want. The problem with PSP is it's trying to be a console on a portable system - it doesn't work. The DS works because it knows its audience - a quick, portable distraction that wont have you getting too involved in a game that requires a savepoint to safely exit. I'm no Nintendo fanboy, but I have to say - in the portables arena DS wins hands down.

DS is great (1)

Is0m0rph (819726) | more than 7 years ago | (#18444331)

My wife bought me one for my bday a few days ago and we can't put it down. Only have Club House Games and New Super Mario Bros. Club House Games is really addicting and now my wife says she needs a DS Lite too. Once I get a slot 1 flash card for it and can use the PDA organizer software, play MP3s, etc. life will be good.
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