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Delphi For PHP Released

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the accelerator dept.

PHP 155

Gramie2 writes "Codegear (now a subsidiary of Borland) has just released version 1.0 of Delphi for PHP, a RAD development environment (running on Windows) that produces standard PHP code. It features a large set of built-in components, including ones that use AJAX for database access; and Codegear is encouraging users to develop their own components. The framework, VCL for PHP, is open source, and documentation follows the PHP model. Initial database connectivity is for MySQL and Interbase (Codegear's commercial database that spawned the open-source Firebird), but more are promised."

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I for one (1)

Mipoti Gusundar (1028156) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513445)

I for one am welcoming or new component drived rapid development overloads. In an agile way!

Slashvertisement (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513461)

Damn Slashvertisements. Who gives a crap?

Finally! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513465)

Finally - Delphi will give PHP the credibility it needs in the corporate world (hahahahahaha)

Disambiguation (4, Informative)

Zouden (232738) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513527)

If you're as confused as I was, it's because the name Delphi can apply to the language Object Pascal [wikipedia.org] , as well as for the IDE [wikipedia.org] used primarily for Object Pascal.

This article is about the IDE being used for PHP, so fans of Pascal syntax have nothing to get excited about.

Does this IDE build upon the existing interpreter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513579)

Does this IDE just use the normal PHP interpreter available from http://www.php.net/ [php.net] or did Borland/CodeGear write their own PHP implementation?

Re:Does this IDE build upon the existing interpret (2, Interesting)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513739)

It appears to be the regular PHP, but they've created a library for common controls. (Yes, they made a library for making textboxes and radio buttons. -yawn-) At first I thought it was a php plugin written in C or something, but no... It's just plain PHP. What was wrong with making the controls in HTML like always, I dunno.

I'll admit, I've written a function to take an array and make a dropdown box from it, but Delphi's VCL is going a bit far, I think.

Re:Does this IDE build upon the existing interpret (2, Informative)

Red Alastor (742410) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514011)

It's largely based on the qooxdoo javascript library.

Check the demos here [qooxdoo.org] and here [qooxdoo.org] .

Re:Does this IDE build upon the existing interpret (1)

Shulai (34423) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514575)

HTML was wrong because if you write the stuff yourself they had nothing to sell.
Worst part, while I'm not sure if you can ever stop using Delphi for PHP and still be able to further develop your app, or become trapped in both the IDE and the Windows platform.

Re:Does this IDE build upon the existing interpret (2, Informative)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514795)

A good IDE is worth its weight in gold. It doesn't need helper libraries to make it great.

I think you are right about being trapped in it, though... The VCL, if nothing else, would trap you irrevocably. But then, they're treating it more like an IDE for different language, and being tied to a language is true for any language. Just like Ruby on Rails is treated differently than plain Ruby.

Re:Does this IDE build upon the existing interpret (1)

Franciscan (720329) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515341)

That's not true. The IDE Product is commercial, the VCL for PHP library is open source (to be hosted on Sourceforge, should be there any day now). YOu aren't trapped. You can go back to VIM at any time. Warren

Re:Disambiguation (1)

PalmKiller (174161) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514995)

Oh I was confused back in the day. I was using borland pascal, pascal for windows, in addition to c++. They send me a marketing flyer for delphi hyped up as a new and unique language and offering me an upgrade of one of my current products, no mention whatsoever that it was pascal on it. I threw it away cause I had no idea it was pascal...later I figured it out (Their sales told me no new pascal would be offered but they had a new delphi product that replaced it)...by then I had moved on to c++ as the only product of theirs I still used. I guess now I got the chance to get a back into pascal a little with the delphi/c++ combo in their new studio line, when and if I upgrade.

Why does this eerily (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513539)

compare:

http://video.codegear.com/php/hello/hello.html [codegear.com]

and
http://docs.rinet.ru/ActiveVB/f22-3.gif [rinet.ru] ...

Why does this IDE remind me of my visual basic 3 days (not to say that there's anything wrong with that). I guess I've been staring at eclipse for too long.

Re:Why does this eerily (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513647)

not to say that there's anything wrong with that

No, of course not.

PHPeclipse (2, Informative)

TwilightXaos (860408) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515369)

You probably already know this then, but eclipse can be used to develop php as well:

PHPeclipse User Manual [schuetzengau-freising.de]

Re:PHPeclipse (1)

Abasher (778648) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515681)

Or (alternatively) using the official plug-in (which is supposedly better): http://www.eclipse.org/pdt/ [eclipse.org]

Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (-1, Troll)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513543)

Personally, I think PHP is a pretty horrible way to do web development of any real size. Web apps need to be written in proper code, with MVC, and templates, not as code embedded in individual pages.

However, this might at least this might steer some windows users away from the thing microsoft likes to pretend is reponsible for a TLD ("dot net"), which is worse.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513653)

>> Web apps need to be written in proper code, with MVC, and templates, not as code embedded in individual pages.

What, you mean like every developer worth their wage in PHP has been doing for the last x years?

Do try and keep up...

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513671)

You can use PHP to write web apps with proper code, MVC and templates through the use of frameworks (CakePHP, php.MVC, Zend, etc, or your own). The purpose of a language is not to provide you with all those things. You have to work for them, no matter what language you're writing in.

Apparently you have no clue about php ? (2, Informative)

unity100 (970058) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513677)

With php, code is seperated from the design, templates handling the visuals.

all major software like phpbb et al are like that.

you can make it so that not a single byte of code mingles with template if you wish.

php offers liberty on seperating content with the code. some do not, some do.

Re:Apparently you have no clue about php ? (1)

FesterDaFelcher (651853) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515359)

With php, code can be seperated from the design, templates handling the visuals.
There, fixed it for you. Didn't want your flamy "no clue" comment to get you in trouble.

Re:Apparently you have no clue about php ? (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515885)

hey - everyone is entitled to go flamy once in a while.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (1)

AutopsyReport (856852) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513679)

Your way of thinking is outdated. There are many frameworks that facilitate proper MVC, templating, and a separation of duties. Check out CodeIgniter [codeigniter.com] , CakePHP [cakephp.org] , and symfony [symfony-project.com] , three of the most popular frameworks for PHP. Development techniques and approaches in PHP have changed significantly in the last few years.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (2, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513987)

What I like about PHP is that it's flexible enough to do either kind of programming. Being an ASP.Net programmer, I sometimes wish it were just easier to mix the code and presentation when making a quick page. On large projects, it's good not to mix the two, but sometimes throwing together a simple page is easier if you can mix code and presentation.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (1)

Yoozer (1055188) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514163)

Being an ASP.Net programmer, I sometimes wish it were just easier to mix the code and presentation when making a quick page.
Dump everything in a Response.Write - or make a single Label called "test" you use to dump strings in (use a stringbuilder, though, concatenation is pure inefficient filth for everything bigger than 3 lines) ;)

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18515061)

What are <% %> tags for?
<%if(Request["step"] != "1" && Request["step"] != "2") { %>
<!-- some HTML Code -->
<%}%>

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514557)

Also check out Prado [xisc.com] for a component-oriented framework along the lines of JSF or ASP.NET (its design seems to be inspired more by the latter). I deeply loathe PHP, but Prado does look very nice.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (1)

alittlespice (934609) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514861)

not to mention Zend's solution: The Zend Framework [zend.com] .

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (4, Informative)

tolan-b (230077) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513683)

The embedding code in HTML part of PHP is fairly legacy really for anyone doing anything more complex than basic scripts. Any decent larger PHP app will only use that method as part of a templating/view layer (as long as there's no business logic involved it's a useful templating tool), if at all.

Our CMS is MVC (command and controller j2ee pattern specifically), using PHP's embedding in the views only, is fully OO and has an O/RM layer for datastore access. This kind of set-up is increasingly common in PHP now. Just look at the number of application and database frameworks available for it.

Of course there are always going to be kids knocking out horrible scripts, but that doesn't mean there aren't people doing things properly too.

You kidding me. .NET alternative ? (0, Flamebait)

Shohat (959481) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513685)

With all due respect , .NET is a great platform for enterprise-level development. PHP, no matter how you flip it or manage it , isn't . Zend is not big enough to develop and patch a platform that can compete with Microsoft's flagship.
Cheers

Re:You kidding me. .NET alternative ? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513907)

With all due respect , .NET is a great platform for enterprise-level development.

Hardly. .NET doesn't run worth shit on my company's Solaris and HP-UX systems. Yes, we're talking about real enterprise systems here. Some Intel box running Windows 2003 Server and .NET does not constitute actual enterprise development. Real enterprise work is done on UNIX systems like Solaris, HP-UX, and AiX.

.NET and Java just can't offer the execution speed necessary for really large-scale enterprise apps. That's why we still use C++ in many cases. And yes, I know that in a small number of unrealistic microbenchmarks Java is shown to be faster than the equivalent C++. But in reality, that's just not the case. .NET and Java just don't scale well enough.

Re:You kidding me. .NET alternative ? (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514017)

There are plenty of web sites running on janky systems that are, ya know, bigger than 'really large-scale enterprise apps'.

Re:You kidding me. .NET alternative ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18514731)

You can do anything if you throw enough hardware at it. And that's what a lot of those web sites do. Their software implementation is so terrible that they need five to ten times the amount of hardware they should, just to offer a minimal level of performance.

Then again, not every enterprise installation is a web site. There are many financial institutions whose systems process more transactions each minute than some of the most popular web sites handle in a month. Again, .NET doesn't run worth shit on any of IBM's high-end mainframe systems used for such computing.

Re:You kidding me. .NET alternative ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18514031)

I hope you aren't arguing that PHP does scale well enough and Java doesn't? That is a ludicrous remark.

Re:You kidding me. .NET alternative ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18514555)

Read my post again, paco. Do you see any reference to PHP? No, you don't. Everyone knows PHP is inferior to .NET. And what we're saying here is that for real enterprise development, .NET is insufficient. So it should be clear to you that PHP is not suited for enterprise development in any fashion.

Re:You kidding me. .NET alternative ? (2, Insightful)

umghhh (965931) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514825)

but the problems with speed are down to the coding faults people make because they have not a clue how java really works (not a clue about .net - never worked with it). OC you may say that because java folk is an uneducated lot then it is irrelevant whether java code can be fast or not - dead weight of java coder will kill the speed anyway. //

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (5, Insightful)

sherriw (794536) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513687)

"Web apps need to be written in proper code, with MVC, and templates, not as code embedded in individual pages."

No kidding? Have you ever seen a quality application written in PHP- it can do all these things and more. I've written many quality PHP applications that use a modified MVC architecture and has all the PHP code separate from the output templates. On top of that it uses OO where it makes sense to do so, it's fast and secure.

It helps to know what you're talking about before you spout off. Just because lots of people build rickety shacks out of stone, doesn't mean you can't build a solid castle out of it too.

It's this kind of generalization that pisses me off. It's not the language, it's your crappy skills.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (2, Insightful)

daeg (828071) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514053)

Anyone can make a language or framework insecure. PHP just makes it easier than most.

Are you subscribed to the Secunia security mailing list? A good 1/3 - 1/2 of them are flaws in PHP applications with widespread installation bases. That says something about the language, whether it is the language itself or the prominent users of the language, but I suspect it is a combination of both.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (3, Insightful)

Dragonslicer (991472) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514829)

Are you subscribed to the Secunia security mailing list? A good 1/3 - 1/2 of them are flaws in PHP applications with widespread installation bases. That says something about the language
That it's easy enough to learn that complete idiots can write crappy code in it? A bad programmer will write bad code in any language that you put in front of them. PHP just happens to be one of the few languages that's simple enough that the aforementioned idiots can write code that works (for varying definitions of "works"). Programming languages can only do so much to promote security before the non-idiots complain that the language won't let them do something that they need to do.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (4, Informative)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514143)

No kidding? Have you ever seen a quality application written in PHP- it can do all these things and more. I've written many quality PHP applications that use a modified MVC architecture and has all the PHP code separate from the output templates.On top of that it uses OO where it makes sense to do so, it's fast and secure.

As a PHP developer, I agree with everything you said, except "fast", unless:

1. we ignore the speed of all the other platforms out there (python, perl, .net, java).

2. your requirements of "fast" are modest.

Truth is with more complex architectures and lots of OOP, PHP is really slow, even bytecode caching helps only so much.

PHP shines speed-wise exactly with the kind of "html-and-php-code" soup most pro developers despise. When Yahoo claim they use PHP, they in fact use it as a templating language in exactly this kind of "soup", their actual backend is C and Java.

This is why I'm really surprised at what CodeGear is trying to pull off here. As a developer of an in-house component based template engine myself, I know how painfully slow PHP becomes when you try to abstract some of your logic away in classes and so on. Various "PHP OOP" efforts like Zend's own framework or EZ Components prove my point as well.

Delphi's visual approach with VLC is just a huge bunch of abstraction. I can only imagine the kind of speed these PHP apps will have.. In fact you can pretty much say this effort is doomed from the very moment "PHP" got involved.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (2, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515219)

No kidding? Have you ever seen a quality application written in PHP- it can do all these things and more. I've written many quality PHP applications that use a modified MVC architecture and has all the PHP code separate from the output templates. On top of that it uses OO where it makes sense to do so, it's fast and secure.
The point is that there is nothing specific to PHP that facilitates this approach, and a lot (such as its template syntax) which distracts from it. If you're going the OO/MVC route, why not use Java? Or, if you really like dynamic typing, Python (and at least get Unicode working properly), or Ruby with all its cool language features?

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (2, Insightful)

boaddrink (90170) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513705)

If this year was 2000 then I would agree with you. PHP has quite a few MVC frameworks that have been around for some time and are fairly extensively used in enterprise environments. If you know any developers embedding their PHP in the HTML in large apps please ask them to stop.

Here is a small example of a few MVCs out there.
CakePHP - http://www.cakephp.org/ [cakephp.org]
Symfony - http://www.symfony-project.com/ [symfony-project.com]
Zend Framework - http://framework.zend.com/ [zend.com]

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513709)

Personally, I think PHP is a pretty horrible way to do web development of any real size. Web apps need to be written in proper code, with MVC, and templates, not as code embedded in individual pages.


Clearly you have never participated in serious php application development. It is always easy to criticise that which you have not experienced and do not understand. So do us all a favour and STFU.

And this totally ignorant post was moderated +3 interesting. What a bunch of clueless dipshits, to be duped by such blatant ass kissing.

But by all means, don't let me interrupt the ongoing predictable php bashfest, and slashdot perl ass kissing. It is going to go on as usual. Mod this post a troll, you know you want to the truth always hurts.

In the hands of an experienced programmer the performance of C/C++ or php for web applications is miles ahead of the ugly slug known as perl, and ruby is popular becsaue people like to say 'rails', the same people like to say ACID 2 and think its actually important.

But please, if you are going to shit on php, at least get a fucking clue.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513859)

Ok, let's try replying in a mature fashion now, mkay? Don't weaken our arguments against this guy with offensive language.

Anyway, what are you mentioning the Acid2 test for? Acid2 is a test for a browser's compliance with CSS 2. There is no correlation between Ruby users and CSS compliance folks. And yes, the Acid2 test is important. The original Acid test encouraged browser makers to support CSS 1, and it has done the same in regards to CSS 2.

And have you ever used Ruby on Rails to develop a site? Rails is one of the most mature frameworks in the open source sector. I use it because a) it's a blast to program in and b) the amount of testing it facilitates is terrific. Before you label me, I still use PHP quite often for quick projects and for the things that Rails can't do that PHP can do easily.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative (1)

Rui Lopes (599077) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513747)

So use CakePHP [cakephp.org] and your problems and issues with PHP will be solved...

AJAX for database access??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513549)

AJAX for database access? WTF? I thought AJAX was between browser and server.

Re:AJAX for database access??? (1)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513571)

They're referring to dynamically updating forms, such as when you have two combo boxes, select something in one, and the options change in another, or when you enter a search filter, and the table of found records updates without reloading the entire page.

Re:AJAX for database access??? (3, Insightful)

Gramie2 (411713) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513717)

I guess I could have been clearer. Controls on the page can be linked to datasets on the server. The mechanism is AJAX from the browser to the server; then the server deals with the database; and a return to the browser. But all you have to do is define a dataset, and set properties on the control (list box, table, etc.) to point to the dataset.

Re:AJAX for database access??? (1)

./ (13859) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514149)

agreed, this was just buzzwords being flung with mad abandon.

Borland has died after Borland Delphi 7 (4, Interesting)

vivaoporto (1064484) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513581)

When Borland (then Inprise, then Borland again, then Codegear(?) ) stopped making sober RADs and decided to take a chance on expensive toys for code management, they lost in both fronts. The Turbo Series (Pascal, C and Assembler) and Delphi (the odd versions, 1, 3, 5 and 7) seriously competed against Microsoft products (Microsoft C, Assembler, Visual Series), even outselling them in a lot of places in the world (Brazil, for instance).

Two things made Borland wreck their scene: 1) losing their creative minds to Microsoft, specially Anders Hejlsberg [wikipedia.org] , creator of nothing less than Turbo Pascal, Delphi and main architect of C#. 2) losing their focus (from useful RADs to expensive but totally good for nothing "Application Lifecycle Management" (whatever it is).

Had kept the focus and the creative minds, either .Net would not exist (and consequently, stole Borland's thunder) or the Borland tools would be better even than the Microsoft ones on that fronts (Delphi 8 almost got there, initially). Borland died a sad death, and what we see now is nothing but Post Morten flatulence.

Re:Borland has died after Borland Delphi 7 (1)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513813)

I agree your first point,but if you cant hang on to your top people then serves you right. What really killed Borland though was their pricing structure with their no updates, everything is fixed in the next release which you pay nearly full whack for and IBM releasing Eclipse which was intended to destroy Borlands main revenue source in the emerging J2EE market at the time.

Re:Borland has died after Borland Delphi 7 (3, Informative)

pdawson (89236) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513843)

They sorta realized this. CodeGear is all the development apps (Delphi, C++, C#, Java, etc.) spun out to a new company. Borland is still around, and they're keeping the code management crap for themselves.

Re:Borland has died after Borland Delphi 7 (1)

ralphdaugherty (225648) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514975)

Had kept the focus and the creative minds, either .Net would not exist (and consequently, stole Borland's thunder) or the Borland tools would be better even than the Microsoft ones on that fronts (Delphi 8 almost got there, initially).

      Which is why Microsoft did what they did. They have always done this to their competition, just add it to the long list.

  rd

Re:Borland has died after Borland Delphi 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18515393)

Excellent posting vivaoporto, & dead-on accurate!

I agree on all counts, and wasn't aware of a couple you made in fact, in Delphi outselling Ms compilers.

Borland Delphi was not only outselling MS compilers (which I have used on my own for freeware/shareware development, but also professionally since 1995 (mostly VB3-VB.NET in Visual Studio 2005 currently though)) but also outrunning & outgunning MS' stuff.

Did you know, Borland had Delphi.NET out before Microsoft did for .NET RAD development? Pretty ironic imo.

Personally, I've used Delphi since 1995 in 16-bit version 1.0, all the way up to 7.0 in 32-bit environs on Win32 (and even Linux via Kylix, the Delphi for Linux), and it kicks butt!

The FASTEST compiler (in terms of compilations speed, unmatchable) & in terms of code it produces, & how fast IT operates.

PROOF?

In (of all places) Visual Basic Programmer's Journal (forerunner of, iirc, today's .NET magazine) October 1997 issue entitled "Inside the VB5 Compiler", Delphi so soundly beat BOTH VB5 and MSVC5&6, it was amazing.

Borland Delphi 2.0 swept the floor with both MSVB5 & MSVC5-6, almost taking EVERY test, & only losing OCX form loads to VB5, & form repaint speed to MSVC++, but the other 8 tests it blew them BOTH out of the water in!

Especially in Math & String processing speeds, which is, as you know, something EVERY program does a lot of.

It is the "WHY" of why I selected to write this program in it (because it heavily uses math & strings!

I wanted an INSTANT performance advantage out of the box is why! Delphi per the results I saw in the VBPJ mag I told you about earlier gave me that. In fact, I turned from using VB & MSVC++ in 1997 because of it, going more to Delphi until around 2003. Ms does get more following and for 'mgt. reasons', not technical excellence. "Microsoft will be here tomorrow, they have the cash: Will Borland?" being the reason.

Funny, but I can write up code in Delphi 2.0 & 3.0 that runs FINE on today's Win32 OS & hardware... idiots @ the wheel controlling things & being bean-counters types only, & not coders, should NOT be leading IS/IT/MIS dept.'s but as you know, it is largely this way, unfortunately.

Anyhow, using Delphi does yield higher performance code than VB & VC++. To go past that, I then I tuned it above compiler options (inline assembler code & multiple thread design usage) & manual profiling later (registering hi-res multimedia timers & ticking off how much time each routine took & worked on the longer ones etc.) homemade, & oldschool, but, I AM, lol, old!):

APK REGISTRY CLEANING ENGINE 2002++ SR-7:

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/389/foowhatev ermakesgooglehappy.html [techpowerup.com]

Thanks for these tips, & enjoy the program above should you try it!

(It is the ONLY registry cleaner that works from a SINGLE CODEBASE on Windows 9x/NT/2000/XP/Server 2003/VISTA w/ out modification, and beats any other out there, via tests done on 3 diff. forums during 1998-2002)

"When Borland (then Inprise, then Borland again, then Codegear(?) ) stopped making sober RADs and decided to take a chance on expensive toys for code management, they lost in both fronts. The Turbo Series (Pascal, C and Assembler) and Delphi (the odd versions, 1, 3, 5 and 7) seriously competed against Microsoft products (Microsoft C, Assembler, Visual Series), even outselling them in a lot of places in the world (Brazil, for instance)." - by vivaoporto (1064484) on Wednesday March 28, @08:04AM (#18513581)

I started out on PC programming using Borland Turbo Pascal 5.0, & then lastly Object Pascal 7.0, in collegiate academia settings back circa 1991-1992 for DOS. Good stuff for its day, but a HELL of a lot better in Delphi 1.0 - 3.0 even (5.0 - 7.0 were king/tops as you felt, & I agree).

However, I was not aware of this one. Thank you for that.

(Your post has made my bookmarks/favs because of this in part. The mods rated YOU correctly for your post by the by, & not just for this factoid).

"Two things made Borland wreck their scene: 1) losing their creative minds to Microsoft, specially Anders Hejlsberg, creator of nothing less than Turbo Pascal, Delphi and main architect of C#. 2) losing their focus (from useful RADs to expensive but totally good for nothing "Application Lifecycle Management" (whatever it is)." - by vivaoporto (1064484) on Wednesday March 28, @08:04AM (#18513581)

Yes, he is a great one, I agree. He is 1 of my 2 "technical/intellectual heros" out here today in this field, comp. sci., & on the coding end. John Carmack is the other.

Ms' has been 'brain-draining' Borland since day #1 nearly under Philippe Kahn's leadership. They are notorious for it.

"Had kept the focus and the creative minds, either .Net would not exist (and consequently, stole Borland's thunder) or the Borland tools would be better even than the Microsoft ones on that fronts (Delphi 8 almost got there, initially). Borland died a sad death, and what we see now is nothing but Post Morten flatulence." - by vivaoporto (1064484) on Wednesday March 28, @08:04AM (#18513581)

Ah, I see: Then you WERE aware of the fact Delphi.NET (version 8.x) was out & doing .NET coding in a RAD style, before Microsoft even had a working .NET compiler out the door, again, very ironic eh?

All-in-all, great points, good job on the mods' part scoring you upwards too... Good post vivaoporto all the way around, kudos! :)

APK

Re:Borland has died after Borland Delphi 7 (3, Interesting)

osgeek (239988) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515569)

I'll take it a step further. Borland/Inprise/whatever is such a fucked up piece of shit company that I'd never knowingly start a serious project that depends upon them or their products in any way.

My team has suffered from blistering crotch fires of agony trying to cope with C++ Builder's (5 & 6) linker woes. Rather than spending our valuable development time on important-for-our-customers product development issues, the very existence of our company became reliant upon working around our inability to even link our growing application.

It was a horrible mess, and one that Borland was useless in helping us to resolve because they were off working on new products that never saw the light of day.

Never *ever* again.

For the Amateur coder? NOOB!! ALERT!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513597)

So I don't know much about history, but I am capable of using Dreamweaver to build web pages that connect to a MySQL database. Is this something worth me looking into?

Re:For the Amateur coder? NOOB!! ALERT!!!! (1)

kni52 (598886) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515703)

I don't know about the Delphi PHP IDE in the article, but if you are looking for a new develpoment enviroment, I would strongly recomend trying eclipse http://www.eclipse.org/ [eclipse.org] with PHPeclipse http://www.phpeclipse.net/tiki-view_articles.php [phpeclipse.net] and XAMPP http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html [apachefriends.org] . This compination is far more powerful than Dreamweaver, free (as in beer and speech), and has plugins available to support almost every every language I can think of. Which will help you in learning new languages with out having to learn a new IDE. Inaddition it can be made to run off a USB drive. Eclipse is java based so it is available for linux windows or osX.

The only advantage Dreamweaver may have is the WYSIWYG editor. There is an eclipse plugin for this (included in easy eclipse mentioned below) but I haven't used this much, since it's geneally faster and more reliable to edit the code to get the result I want. PHPeclipse includes an browser preview pane that, with the exception of directly editing the view in a WYSIWYG maner, is just as functional.

My two favorite features are the integration with XAMPP (an extrememly easy to setup and use local LAMP web server, which should work with Dreamweaver too) which allows for a Dreamweaver style design view for PHP code, and the Remote System Explorer (RSE) http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm/tutorial/ [eclipse.org] plugin which allows you to connect and work on files on a remote webserver as if they were local, which is great for quick fixes and fixing typos.

To use eclipse, PHPeclipse, and XAMPP to create a portable development environment on a USB drive, check out http://www.plog4u.org/index.php/Using_PHPEclipse:I nstallation:XAMPP_Example_Installation [plog4u.org] for eclipse and PHP eclipse installation into XAMPP and this thread http://portableapps.com/node/929 [portableapps.com] to make it all portable. I would also recomend checking out http://www.easyeclipse.org/site/home/ [easyeclipse.org] for easy installation of eclipse with many of the most useful plugins preinstalled for you.

I'm completely thrown (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513619)

I'm sorry... Delphi for PHP? Am I the only person who read that and thought "ftw"?

Re:I'm completely thrown (1, Funny)

Idaho (12907) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513665)

I'm sorry... Delphi for PHP? Am I the only person who read that and thought "ftw"?


No, I was in fact thinking the exact reverse.

Although it's still strange, this thinking in terms of TLA's.

Re:I'm completely thrown (1)

ibbo (241948) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514041)

No I thought that too. I also thought uh, php mysql nice NIX tools yes but a delphi IDE that only runs on Windows.

Bah will never work. If your into webdev on windows your a VS c# organ grinder nothing more.

Ibbo

Oh, great (3, Insightful)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513625)

Writing insecure web applications in less time. Thanks Borland! ;-)

Re:Oh, great (1)

Vexorian (959249) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514271)

What the heck?

So, your last knowledge of php was about version 3.0 ? And then you just skipped it and you still get the right to make these comments?
The alternatives to php are not any more secure than the current version, sorry about that.

Re:Oh, great (1)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514599)

Didn't you notice the smilie at the end? Go buy some humour...

Another desperate attempt. (4, Insightful)

Yuioup (452151) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513629)

Another desperate attempt by Borland/Codegear to appease their dwindling developer community.

Delphi is dead. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Y

Re:Another desperate attempt. (2, Informative)

dunkelfalke (91624) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515077)

no, no, it's resting.

now serious: delphi is still the best tool for developing win32 apps and it is still widely used in europe.

Re:Another desperate attempt. (1)

Yuioup (452151) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515459)

Agreed. Delphi 7 rocks.

Yours truly,

A disgruntled Delphi 8 purchaser.

Y

Re:Another desperate attempt. (1)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515549)

Delphi six is the best release of the IDE so far as I'm concerned.

all these years and it's still my preferred instance of delphi.

Re:Another desperate attempt. (1)

gasmasher (750585) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515687)

It may be dying but I still make nearly six figures a year contracting as a Delphi programmer. It's not dead yet.

Re:Another desperate attempt. (1)

illegalcortex (1007791) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515941)

Meh. People have been telling us Delphi is dead longer than they've been saying that about Macs. We'll believe it when we see it.

Re:Another desperate attempt. (1)

davek (18465) | more than 7 years ago | (#18516011)

forgetaboutit. Borland made one of the first C compilers, has expanded software development since the beginning, and has no intention of quitting the development game any time soon. Sure, it seems to have its head up its ass with a lot of things (ditching Kylix seems to be one), but the fact remains that there will always be a need for an alternative to MS Visual Studio for IDEs. If Borland were smart, they'd play their advantage: not being locked in to windows.

Delphi is still a solution in search of a problem. I use the thing 8 hours a day and while it does have a tendency to allow poor coding style, that's a shortcoming of IDEs in general and not Delphi. While I wouldn't bet my bottom dollar on its success, I still think that it will become more applicable in the future, not less. Delphi's problems have to do with the idiots who are directing the project, not something inherently wrong with the IDE.

-dave

Perhaps not the best acronym for a new project. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18513735)

Oh let me just google up [google.com] some info on this new VCL thing I heard about and ... oh my god anthropomorphic wolves and foxes having sex!? Nooooooooooo!

Looks Nice! (1)

purpleraison (1042004) | more than 7 years ago | (#18513917)

I am a long time Zend user, and I really like ZDE -- especially because it is cross platform (Linux, OSX, and Windows).

Delphi for PHP looks to be very similar (I read the announcement, but have not tested the app yet), but also has a database browser! This is particularly valuable, and truly DOES speed up development.

I will have to blow the dust of my Windows box, and try this out. :)

Did they miss the point? (2, Insightful)

muxecoid (1061162) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514059)

If webdevs do something Windows they use ASP (ASP.NET). ASP.NET is already RAD-like, the niche is taken.
If they offer tools for PHP and MySQL target servers run Linux, target developers run Linux, and they are missing again.

Re:Did they miss the point? (0, Troll)

MedBob (96899) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514241)

Have you used .ASP? EWWWWWWWWWW!
It's the typical M$ bailing wire.
This provides (right now) about 75% WYSIWYG development of PHP web pages, using a framework that closely resembles the Object Pascal (Delphi) Visual Control Library (VCL). It gets you a Web GUI prototyped quickly, and an event-driven framework to develop the back end.
It will DEPLOY to either M$ or Linux, so the only constraint on your hosting is PHP 5.

Re:Did they miss the point? (1)

AutopsyReport (856852) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514595)

Actually I think you'd be surprised how much PHP development is done within Windows and later pushed to a Linux server. In fact, where I work (federal government), PHP development and deployment is done exclusively on Windows. So I don't think this product is off-base. Besides, I'm thinking the Windows crowd is more inclined to purchase an IDE than the Linux folks.

Downloading the trial (1)

SarekOfVulcan (133772) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514199)

I'd love to give it a try, but it requires a login for download, and there's no "Forgot your password?" option.

(And yes, I have a whole bunch of other email addresses I could use. That's not the point.)

Let's hope you're evaluating REAL REAL fast (3, Funny)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514203)

... because CodeGear offer this trial on their web site:

"Free, fully functional 1 day trial"

Right, 1 day.
Great.

Re:Let's hope you're evaluating REAL REAL fast (1)

Gramie2 (411713) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514321)

As one of the CodeGear people explained, it was intended to be part of some kind of 1-day on-line seminar. The seminar had to be cancelled, but they decided to make the demo available. They realize that a single day is "sub-optimal".

Re:Let's hope you're evaluating REAL REAL fast (2, Informative)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514393)

As one of the CodeGear people explained, it was intended to be part of some kind of 1-day on-line seminar. The seminar had to be cancelled, but they decided to make the demo available. They realize that a single day is "sub-optimal".

PR is hard. Basically if the CEO's About page needs a photo but lacks one, which do you think is the better option, PR-wise:

1. Use the only photo of the CEO available, where he has his pants down.

2. Wait a bit and make/provide a better photo.

Unless they plan to assign a CodeGear "guy" explaining the situation to every user visiting their site, they'll look like morons to people who go there to evaluate their software.

Not only is it 1 day, but the activation is ridiculously complicated (activation.. of my trial.. by basically putting files in my documents and settings/[user] folder)

Re:Let's hope you're evaluating REAL REAL fast (1)

Suidae (162977) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514793)

This is why microsoft/vmware provide free virtual machine software.

I use Microsoft VPC with a Win2k image. Install SVN and connect to a repository on the network, set up a startup script to set the time system date to Jan 1st then save and backup the VHD. Adjust the settings file to disable time syncing. When you want to evaluate software, copy (or inherit from) the image. Turn on 'undo disks' and you have the option to discard all changes made during the run.

I call the image 'Groundhog day'.

Re:Let's hope you're evaluating REAL REAL fast (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514845)

This is why microsoft/vmware provide free virtual machine software.

That's like me ranting "BluRay's DRM sucks" and you telling me "this is why hackers provide hacks".

It doesn't make Sony/Toshiba any better for feeding us rogue DRM. Of course I installed it on VMWare, otherwise...

Delphi Dead? (1)

jshriverWVU (810740) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514219)

Ok I'll bite, might have some karma to burn. Isn't Delphi Dead? My first task at the job I have now was to port some Windows Delphi code to linux. At first I thought, no sweat I can use Kylix. In the end I came to the conclusion Delphi is dead on any platform and ended up rewriting it in C. I guess it could still have life for legacy applications, but in this rapid multi-flavored world if a language is 100% stuck on 1 platform/OS it's more or less dead (excluding of course assembly which of course is arch specific).

Re:Delphi Dead? (1)

Darkstorm (6880) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514499)

Hmm, you know, I am making a decent living using delphi. Is delphi dead? Pretty much, but since windows does occupy a vast majority of pc's out there (fact, not fiction), I will have to disagree with your concept that any language that is not multi-platform as dead. Maybe one day when linux becomes more user friendly, and people stop screaming "look at the source" as a replacement for documentation and simple to use interfaces, maybe your statement might be true. There are far too many idiots in the world that will take anything mickysoft hands them and think it's the greatest thing ever (when they are not cussing it for crashing). Overall, I don't foresee being out of work any time soon.

Note: I have started down the dark road of .net, but I still like to play with php, since php and mysql is on almost every low cost hosting company out there.

Re:Delphi Dead? (1)

jshriverWVU (810740) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514721)

That's good. Honestly I liked Delphi. I downloaded the 180day evaluation version of the suites so I could look/compile/test code while porting to C. The IDE is beautiful, I'm sad Kylix didnt make it because it would have been a nice easy way to make X applications without having to know xlib.

Re:Delphi Dead? (1)

Directrix1 (157787) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515943)

Few code straight to xlib. They usually use a toolkit like GTK or Qt.

Re:Delphi Dead? (1)

Darkstorm (6880) | more than 7 years ago | (#18516035)

I fiddled with Kylix, and I've played with most of their development tools. It's funny how many people stopped at delphi 7 and ignored the later version. Borland lost sight of what kept them in business, good usable tools, and that started somewhere around delphi 8.

I have used zend's ide to work with php...can't say it is the best ide I've worked with, but it did the job. I still have to install the one day trial (probably on the weekend so I have a few extra hours to play with it), but if it is half as nice as delphi 7, it could be worth the money. Till then, I'll reserve judgment.

Re:Delphi Dead? (1)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514753)

Apparently, you've never heard of the Free Pascal Compiler [freepascal.org] or the accompanying RAD IDE Lazarus [freepascal.org] .

Re:Delphi Dead? (1)

jshriverWVU (810740) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514869)

Aye I have and they're not 100% Delphi compatible, haven't tried Lazarus though. The problem with using fpc for Delphi code (besides incompatibilities) is that it doesnt support Forms. If you're doing cli only stuff it seems to work ok. But if you have a GUI you're kinda screwed.

Re:Delphi Dead? (1)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515185)

Take a look at Lazarus, they're supposedly working towards Delphi compatibility.

Now I admit FPC doesn't have full compatibility yet (even in -Mdelphi mode), but it's still a damn sight better than rewriting in C or C++.

Borland should burn in hell for ruining a perfectly good language and IDE.

Re:Delphi Dead? (3, Insightful)

Ronin Developer (67677) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515121)

Is Delphi Dead?

First, you have to define what you mean by Delphi. I code using Delphi 5 & 7 (i.e. Delphi's flavor IDE and Object Pascal) every day. With the number of controls available and the knowledge of being able to create my own visual and non-visual controls, this tool allows the company I work for to remain well ahead of our competitors by at least a year ( they copy our features ).

However, Delphi is no longer just the language - it is now a family of IDEs for many different programming languages that have adopted the same advanced IDE and concepts of the original Delphi product.

Is Delphi dead? Well, try to find competent Delphi developers and you'd be suprised. It's probably easier to find older Delphi developers who know the environment very well than to find younger developers versed in it. If you need a Delphi developer, be prepared to pay them well as they are a rare commidity indeed. And, like any developer for any tool/language, their quality and skills vary.

Has Borland/CodeGear blown it? Perhaps. The definitely pissed me off when they raised the price of their tools well out reach of the small developer. They did that when Phillip Kahn built that palace in Scottsdale. Then, they moved to this application lifestyle BS and, essentially, abandoned their core customers. WTF were they thinking? Then, they blew it with Kylix - they didn't fully develop it and keep the costs down to make it easy to adopt. Then, they dropped it like a hot potato. I haven't upgraded my products since then - I certainly wouldn't be able to afford them (the Enterprise and Architect versions) on my own.

Is $249 or $299 too much to pay for Delphi for PHP? Maybe. They will have to show the community that it's worth spending the big bugs over some other IDEs (free and commercial). Will I play with Delphi for PHP? Probably - if they make a trial version that isn't limited (like the Turbo Explorer products are) and actually be able to create my own components and such. And, it sure as hell better be able to talk to Firebird, MySQL and Oracle and not just Interbase - Yes, I like Firebird.

So, is Delphi dead? Let's say that I am retraining myself for C++, C# and probably Java development in the event that I need to change jobs. But, I will continue to use Delphi as it enables me to put food on the table and pay the bills. And, I like it.

RD

Re:Delphi Dead? (1)

Franciscan (720329) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515465)

Borland just released Delphi 2007. It's got first-class support for Windows Vista apps (Glass, etc). How exactly is Delphi dead? There are probably 100,000 developers in north america and probably half a million or more active Delphi developers worldwide. Are we all dead? There are more people doing Java these days, and more people doing C# and probably more people doing C++, but we're not DEAD. Why do you have to be #1 or be called dead? Warren

All well and good till they kill the product... (1)

codepunk (167897) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514297)

All well and good, till they kill the product like they did with Kylix...then what, yep you are left holding the bag....thanks, but no thanks..

I want it yesterday! (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514451)

Funny how just yesterday I was digging through my binders in search of my Delphi discs to code up a quick file management util. I'm eagerly waiting for the trial version of Delphi PHP to finish downloading, but if it's anything like Delphi/BCB I'm going to need more kleenex. Say what you will, but when it comes to rapid prototyping it's about as fast as it gets. There's a certain elegance to ObjectPascal despite its simplicity, and it can do just about anything C++ can, with less headaches. I see it as a middle ground between VB and templatized C++, plus the compiler's crazy fast, perfect for the kind of incremental debugging that comes naturally with prototyping.

If they've managed to accomplish this with PHP/Ajax, we'll be seeing a new breed of web apps, coded not by Java dweebs or Ajax hacks, but by seasoned app designers... a little less flair and CSS shenanigans, and more direct interactivity and usability.

Your app on Delphi (2, Interesting)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514801)

This is your app on Delphi (TM):

I installed the trial Delphi for PHP and created an app which prints "Hello World" on the screen.

For a reference, this is how this looks in plain PHP (granted no MVC and so on, but for the sake of example..):

&lt?php echo "Hello World" ?>

What does Delphi do?

  1. Loads several thousand lines VCL code
  2. Loads all the menu, form, container and "external" controls, although they're not used (thousands of lines of code)
  3. The Hello World is a label (no simpler way) which has around 50 properties (color, bg color and what not) defined in an XML file. I left all at defaults, but never mind. The file is loaded, parsed.
  4. The Label class inherits from CustomLabel, which inherits from Components which inherits from other stuff I didn't even bother check, it goes through all properties, and figures out after a lot of thinking that it should print the words "Hello World".


Keep in mind I simplified it so you stay with me. There's also a bunch of other stuff happening, application classes and what not.

And again, this is how it's done in plain PHP:

&lt?php echo "Hello World" ?>

This Delphi stuff is really promising I tell you. Or, rather, it's supposed to look promising when Borland pitches CodeGear for sale again. Don't forget, CodeGear was spun off so that it's income is more clearly defined, and it's a more lucrative sale. Borland doesn't care of CodeGear has a future, it only wants to make it LOOK as if it has a future, and this project is sadly nothing more than this.

Don't see this working for PHP (1)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 7 years ago | (#18514821)

I like Delphi a lot. It takes a lot of the GUI developing stuff out of your hands, etc. But I don't see this same development method working for PHP.
Simply because they use the same "application" aproach that Delphi had. But PHP, or at least webapplications, are not really persistent. Every time you need to save and restore your application session, and for good performance you want to keep this as minimal as possible. When everytime the "program" has to do something you need to restore the "application" it put some heavy load on the webserver/app in total. Also, unlike popular believe, PHP is not about presentation, while Delphi is quite a lot about presentation. Positioning elements on your form/webpage is something you do through HTML/CSS.
Delphi for PHP is sort of a competitor to Dreamweaver. And on the programming side I think Delphi for PHP is much better, but the design part if probably worse. Also, no serious PHP programmer uses Dreamweaver to develop PHP applications. I don't think Delphi for PHP will ever be a way to create RIAs. I think they would have a better chance when they made a Delphi for Flash/* (where * is a server side thingy like ASP/PHP/Perl/...). At least Flash features a more Delphi like environment, and Flash could seriously use a better interface for "application" development.

Delphi Developer/Programmer checking in (1)

dmcooper (899820) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515171)

I think this is pretty interesting. I'm running Delphi 7 Enterprise at my office... downgraded from 2005 because it sucked all kinds of ass. I recommend Delphi to anyone who wants an easy RAD that is powerful as well. Delphibasics.co.uk is a good place to get your language basics out of the way.

mod me 'luddite' (4, Insightful)

steveoc (2661) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515399)

Please mod me down as an old fashioned technology-phobic luddite .....

But I read TFA, and viewed the demo vid, and I cringed.

Maybe Im getting old, but Im perfectly content writing my PHP code in vim, and trusting that my template/rendering classes that I rely on will automatically look after the 'drawing of the screens' part of the application, in an efficient manner.

Im happy just writing code that twiddles attributes, performs calculations, and calls SQL. The only 'visualisation' that happens during coding time happens in my head. If you need to pull in the description of an SQL table at coding time - just :!! out to a shellscript that generates a template given a table name. Its not rocket science.

The mental state of mind that you need to be immersed in whilst coding is very different to the state you need to be in when testing, or viewing the result from an aesthetic POV. Coding belongs in a text editor, and anything else is a distraction.

Even Ajax - Im perfectly content coding that longhand. Its only a few pitiful javascript functions after all, and I dont see the need to wrap them in a framework. Lets not go around pretending that because we are using AJAX, that we are super-coders on the cutting edge of technology .. its just a few javascript functions and a bit of PHP on the receiving end. You should be able to code that in your lunch break.

OK, so my vim/PHP environment might put me back in the dark prehistoric stone ages, but at least I can sleep well at night knowing that none of my webby code is dependent on the fate of a 3rd party commercial product. After all - thats the main reason I use FOSS in the first place. The whole world wide economy can collapse in a radioactive heap tomorrow, and it wont affect my development at all.

And surely to goodness, isnt vanilla PHP with the standard libraries already way high level enough ? What sort of sheer sloth and laziness leads one to think that they need to front-end PHP with something even higher level ? Are we evolving into a race of Jabba-the-hut's, or what ?

Anyone that commits the blasphemy of 'developing an application' using mostly mouse-clicks honestly needs to be placed into a jar of isopropyl alcohol, and donated to medical science - it is just plain wrong, and always has been.

I tend to take the machine's side of the argument anyway - the less code the machine has to munch through in order to come up with any given result, the happier I am. The end result is just pixels on a screen when you think about it, and a lot of frameworks just add more and more layers of code munching for the machine to produce those same pixels and same behaviour. Silly - just keep it light, simple, scalable and avoid dependencies on proprietary products.

Whats so hard about that ?

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of snark (1)

EmbeddedHack (448369) | more than 7 years ago | (#18515889)

Interesting to read all the bwahaha's in reply to the article. It's true that Borland completely screwed the pooch with it's business strategy. It's also true that Borland had a better approach to tools than Microsoft ever did, at least until the 'bidness' types took over.

Laugh all you want - but in the Microsoft world your choices are .net (interpreted bloat), MFC (useful like a box of hammers), or straight WIN32 (is a box of hammers). You've always been at the mercy of the MS market positioning with MS tools. But hey, at least it's a somewhat effective lifetime employment strategy for folks who like to program with hammers.

helping some ppl out. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18515947)

It looks like a LOT of the people posting here could use some help.

Delphi = an IDE
Delphi = also a language derived from Object Pascal.
Kylix = delphi for linux (yes the IDE and the language)
Delphi for PHP = a RAD tool/IDE for PHP

So to all the ones saying "OMG LOLZ DELPHI IS DEAD MOVE ALONG" well, this is an IDE.
To all the ones saying "they'll kill it just like they killed kylix" well, this is an IDE
To all the ones saying "insecure/shitty code faster" --> thanks for sharing your shallow analysis, please continue watching american idol

thanks.
this is an IDE ppl, an IDE. It does happen to have the tedious VCL concept, but geez, it's just a tool, don't worry you won't have to learn scary BEGIN/END keywords to replace { and }, it will be fine, I promise it won't hurt.

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