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Wireless Power Now A Reality

Zonk posted about 7 years ago | from the just-think-of-the-possibilities dept.

Power 197

slashdottit! tm
CSMastermind writes "CNN is reporting on a breakthrough technology. A startup called Powercast has developed and patented a device, the size of a dime and costing 5$ to make, which allows power to be transmitted wirelessly. The device has already gained FCC approval and the company has inked deals with the likes of Phillips. From the article: 'Powercast says it has signed nondisclosure agreements to develop products with more than 100 companies, including major manufacturers of cell phones, MP3 players, automotive parts, temperature sensors, hearing aids, and medical implants. The last of those alone could be a multibillion-dollar market: Pacemakers, defibrillators, and the like require surgery to replace dead batteries. But with a built-in Powercast receiver, those batteries could last a lifetime. '"

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Nothing for you to see here. Please move along. (1)

legallyillegal (889865) | about 7 years ago | (#18563901)

april ponies lol!

Re:Nothing for you to see here. Please move along. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18563927)

If the next slashdot score isn't 42 I'm going to be Unhappy.

Re:Nothing for you to see here. Please move along. (0)

aussie_a (778472) | about 7 years ago | (#18563987)

How come a CNN story is perpetuating the April Fool bullshit with an article from the 30th?

Disgusting. (1)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | about 7 years ago | (#18564197)

A lot of Slashdot readers didn't listen in Physics class.

Re:Disgusting. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18564377)

I hope you are talking about the ones that are saying this is impossible.

We have been transmitting power for years, it's called radio.

If you look at thier website, they are talking about _tiny_ ammounts of current over fairly short distances.

I don't know if this specific product is an April first joke, but it certainly is not impossible. Limited power over limited ranges is not only possible, it has already been done.

ATTN: SWITCHEURS! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18564389)

If you don't know what GPL and GNU are for, GTFO.
If you think Firefox is a decent GNU/Linux application, GTFO.
If you're still looking for the Control Panel, GTFO.
If you don't know Tux from SCO, GTFO.

Bandwagon jumpers are not welcome among real GNU/Linux users [flickr.com]. Keep your filthy Windows fingers to yourself.

Actually, I dont think it is an april fools joke: (3, Informative)

absentmindedjwc (818483) | about 7 years ago | (#18564463)

I am not too sure that this is an april fools joke... as an april fools joke normally only falls on April 1st.... I seen this on digg over a week ago. It was on multiple sites, from CNN Money, to CNet reviews...

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-12760_7-6676861-1.htm l?tag=promo [cnet.com]

and this one is from January...
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12760_7-9673092-5.htm l?tag=txt [cnet.com]

check out the company page at powercastco.com

fuck you slashdot (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18563903)

fuck you and your shitty attempts at being funny.

PS any girls here, reply and i will eat you out.

dupe? (5, Insightful)

Mr. Capris (839522) | about 7 years ago | (#18563907)

IIRC, there was something like this last year....

Although i could be thinking of the "wireless extension cords" on ThinkGeek...

Re:dupe? (2, Informative)

SEMW (967629) | about 7 years ago | (#18563999)

This isn't an april fools joke -- although I'm pretty sure it's a dupe nevertheless, and it's also not very interesting. It doesn't even use induction; it's just transmitting power by E-M waves -- here, radio waves; which certainly works -- crystal radios anyone? RFID chips? -- but is VERY inefficient (especially if you want to convert the radio waves back into electricity, rather than, say sound, as a crystal radio does), and can't be used to transmit more than tiny amounts of power. The only thing new here is a small increase in efficiency.

Re:dupe? (1)

naoursla (99850) | about 7 years ago | (#18564209)

What do you think induction is based on if not radio waves?

Re:dupe? (3, Informative)

SEMW (967629) | about 7 years ago | (#18564291)

What do you think induction is based on if not radio waves?
An alternating magnetic field, which induces a current. This is NOT the same as electromagnetic radiation, of which radio waves are an example.

Re:dupe? (4, Informative)

naoursla (99850) | about 7 years ago | (#18564429)

Radio waves are alternating magnetic fields. The faster the field is alternated the more power it has and the further it travels. Go study how an AM transmitter and receiver works. Most AM antennas are simple inductive coils that pick up a modulations in a magnetic field. Building an AM transmitter is one of the simplest projects you can do (and was a project in my first circuits class). All you do is make a periodic signal and bound the amplitude by some input (like from a microphone). Then you run it through a coil of wire to create the alternate magnetic field. The magnetic field then hits the coil in the antenna of the receiver and induces a current. The current passes over a resistor and you measure the voltage level. You run that voltage level through a band pass filter and then through an amplifier and then to a speaker and voila! you get to hear whatever the microphone on the other end is picking up.

Re:dupe? (2, Informative)

Gotta ask yourself.. (977664) | about 7 years ago | (#18564645)

Radio waves are alternating magnetic fields.

That's wrong, they are alternating magnetic AND electric fields, orthogonal to each other. That's what electromagnetic radiation means, indeed.

Re:dupe? (1)

alphamugwump (918799) | about 7 years ago | (#18564507)

All I really need to know I learned in freshman physics:
  • Changing electric fields create changing magnetic fields
  • Changing magnetic fields create changing electric fields
  • This is light, and it always travels at the same speed
  • And it arrives as a particle
  • So if you run real fast, everthing looks funny
  • And if you turn the lights way down, you see weird flashes
  • But only if you're looking for them

Re:dupe? (2, Insightful)

evilviper (135110) | about 7 years ago | (#18564221)

but is VERY inefficient

It would certainly be idiotic for things like cellphones. However, I could see the technology being incredibly popular for medical implants.

Instead of a $50,000 surgery to replace a battery, you put a little charged coil against your body for a few hours every few months to charge the battery.

Re:dupe? (1)

slayer_ix (927649) | about 7 years ago | (#18564405)

Lol I knew there would be a story on slashdot but really I was hoping for one that wasn't a repeat from last year. And yes I also remember the wireless extension cord thing from think geek, except I tried to buy one :P

Mod me down. (-1, Offtopic)

Spazntwich (208070) | about 7 years ago | (#18563913)

I think Air Supply said it best:

I 'm all out of love, I'm so lost without you
I know you were right believing for so long
I 'm all out of love, what am I without you
I can't be too late to say that I was so wrong

wtf (0)

liquidpele (663430) | about 7 years ago | (#18563917)

Wow, are you guys not even trying? I mean, that's just freakin obvious!

Re:wtf (5, Funny)

jibjibjib (889679) | about 7 years ago | (#18564009)

This one's actually real, though.

Re:wtf (1)

SirTalon42 (751509) | about 7 years ago | (#18564079)

Maybe slashdot is gonna do a 'reverse april fools' day, because they know no one will fall for their stuff, they're gonna put stuff that SOUNDS fake (of course they'll probably fall for ones and think they're real and submit it as if it was).

This is actually actually real, here's the patent (5, Informative)

Tatarize (682683) | about 7 years ago | (#18564391)

http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/q?db=pat& pat=7027311 [uspto.gov]

  Total Assignments: 2
Patent #:7027311
Issue Dt: 04/11/2006
Application #: 10966880
Filing Dt: 10/15/2004
Publication #:US20050104453
Pub Dt:05/19/2005
Inventors:Timm A. Vanderelli, John G. Shearer, John R. Shearer


Interesting. In my opinion, a frivolous patent. (0)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | about 7 years ago | (#18564579)

The U.S. Patent Office during the Bush administration has been starved for funds. The issuance of a patent means little, because those who want corruption want frivolous patents. A patent, even if eventually ruled invalid, can intimidate competitors.

Notice that Powercast LLC is in the same small town as the "inventors".

Perhaps the patent is for something that really does transmit power. However, the laws of physics prevent the use that is advertised, in my opinion.

Re:wtf (1)

moosesocks (264553) | about 7 years ago | (#18564457)

Startups should take note that performing any sort of legitimate press-release on April Fools day will completely destroy any credibility you may or may not have.

Re:wtf (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18564153)

Wow, are you guys not even trying? I mean, that's just freakin obvious!

You've been had. How embarrassing is it to broadcast it to the world?

Re:wtf (1)

moogs (1003361) | about 7 years ago | (#18564549)

Sigh.... The tagging beta isn't helping either. Some new kid might click on /., and before dude even has time to get excited, he sees "aprilfools" "someponything", eg...

See you Monday (1, Insightful)

mh101 (620659) | about 7 years ago | (#18563919)

Well, no point in me returning to Slashdot until Monday... hopefully nothing truly interesting and non-April-Fool's related gets posted until then.

Re:See you Monday (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18563939)

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny, but this is real.

Re:See you Monday (2, Funny)

l0cust (992700) | about 7 years ago | (#18564217)

What would be funny if this story was correct for a change. Then we will win and you will lose, We will point and laugh and You will cry!

Yeah I need some coffee now.

little box.. (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18563937)

Anyone else notice that stupid 'slashdottit' box? I cant view the summary of the story (not that I was going to read it)

if its some type of joke it isn't funny..

Re:little box.. (OT) (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about 7 years ago | (#18564651)

Anybody else getting this huge Microsoft ad box floating over the stories and comments? Annoys the hell out of me. Way to go MS, this really makes you much more likable, I can't wait to purchase your ... oh, never mind, I can't remember what it was.

welcome to the late 1800s (5, Interesting)

smash (1351) | about 7 years ago | (#18563941)

Tesla [wikipedia.org] did this sort of thing prior to 1900...

Re:welcome to the late 1800s (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 7 years ago | (#18564097)

Exactly right - and he had the excuse that he wouldn't know if it was worth it until the physics was worked out and there was no wired infrastructure.

I welcome our new wireless first April overlords.

i think... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18563955)

it would be great!!! just think all that vibrators stuff that...
oh ok, april's fools day, right
i got it now

Not april fools (5, Informative)

benh57 (525452) | about 7 years ago | (#18563965)

This one's real kids.

Write-up from Jan. [cnet.com]

Official Site [powercastco.com]

It should be noted (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 7 years ago | (#18564155)

That to the best of my knowledge CNN doesn't do April Fools stuff. So anything linked on CNN is most likely real, unless they manage to get duped.

Re:Not april fools (1)

naspime (146800) | about 7 years ago | (#18564275)

Yeah, consider me fooled. While reading the summary I started laughing out loud (went out for a few drinks earlier...it's saturday night). Thought it was a pretty good one (pipe dream and all).

Then I clicked the article link, noticed it was actually CNN, dated March 30th. Damn.

Re:Not april fools (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18564347)

I guess too many people fell asleep during Physics II. If the generated electric field is parallel to the receiving wire, then an alternating current is generated along the wire. Now, just to keep the electric field always parallel to the wire . . .

Be a real bitch when there's an outage (2, Funny)

oDDmON oUT (231200) | about 7 years ago | (#18563979)

"Frank! I *told* you you should get the cable backup, but noooo....they'd mess up the line of your suit". Shakes head dolefully and flutters hands ineffectually "At least I could have plugged that pacemaker in".

So Nikola Tesla was right after all. (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18564003)

So Nikola Tesla was right after all.

Probably NOT an April Fools joke (5, Interesting)

jsm300 (669719) | about 7 years ago | (#18564019)

If this is an April Fools joke then a lot of work went into establishing background for it. According to a CNET article back in January this company (Powercast) attended CES and mentioned Philips as a partner back then. The article referenced here was written on March 30th (although the URL has 04/01 in the name). That article is in complete agreement with the Cnet article. the Powercast website (powercastco.com) was established last October. Then again, Slashdot has a tradition of a bunch of bogus articles on 04/01, but perhaps this isn't one of them.

Double Entendre? (2, Funny)

Roger Wilcox (776904) | about 7 years ago | (#18564255)

I've got an idea:

Lets take a ridiculous sounding true story and then wait until April Fools to post it. No one will believe it, but the joke is still on them!

even better (1)

Anubis350 (772791) | about 7 years ago | (#18564367)

Make it one we had as an April fools joke *last* year, then ppl will cry "dupe" too. It's actually really funny if you think about it: the only real story thatll prolly get posted today, it's an (almost) unbelieveable breakthrough that's been made fun of on this day in the past, and everyone will gloss over it as an april fools gag...

What about the efficiency of such a scheme? (1)

Marcos Eliziario (969923) | about 7 years ago | (#18564043)

Well, we know that every energy conversion step wastes some energy. So, at times where several governments are planning to ban incandescent lights, is it wise to go the way of wirelless power, with all the potential waste, just to enable people to have the convenience of charging their laptops without the minor hassle of handling a cable? (PS: Of course, for serious applications like medical implants, I think it's a good idea and worth the waste)

Efficiency (1)

Mark_MF-WN (678030) | about 7 years ago | (#18564363)

So you're trying to compare the efficiency of fluorescent bulbs versus incandescent to ... what? The idea here is mostly to power things that are running on batteries now. Anytime that you can replace batteries with grid power, even at low efficiencies, you're already ahead. And of course, all the devices that are simply impractical if they have to be plugged in or loaded up with bulky batteries.

Besides, no one ever said that environmentalism and conservation meant that you have to live a shitty life without any conveniences. Actually, some people do say that, but that's because they're ignorant white trash that fear change (ie: conservatives). Conservation is about make the best use of resources, not living in a cave and trying to pretend that technology doesn't exist. One of the big reasons that it's so important to look for ways to save power is so that there will be power there for new uses like this. Save a few watts by replacing your incandescents and you'll have that much more power available when you want to run an mp3 player the size of a matchbook that drives wireless earbud headphones... or a headphone implant that lives in your skull. But if you've squandered all of the world's energy resources in order to power your conventional SUV just so that you wont have to face the indignity of buying an electric one that's cheaper, more reliable, and more powerful ... well, then you deserve what you'll get, which will be to have to walk to the commuter trainstation (once you can no longer afford to power a personal vehicle at all) and wait with no mp3 player implant in your skull, for a ride to a shitty job that is barely worth doing because there are no natural resources left to drive the economy and so everyone has to work in the service industry for the two dozen or so people that own all the land and are masters of a new feudal system.

Induction (1)

dsanfte (443781) | about 7 years ago | (#18564061)

All hail the power of induction! The same power that lets insane farmers lay down ~2km of copper wire underneath high tension lines to leech ~110V of current will power our PDAs from... a few centimeters away.

Re:Induction (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 7 years ago | (#18564107)

The same power that lets insane farmers lay down ~2km of copper wire underneath high tension lines to leech ~110V

I heard of guy who lived next door to an AM radio transmitter. He hooked a wire to the cyclone wire fence around the transmitter, rectified and inverted it and used it to run his house.

Must have taken a while to find, too.

disco lights... (1)

CrAlt (3208) | about 7 years ago | (#18564329)

only problem with leaching the am power is that his lights would get dimmer and brighter with the changes in the amplitude of the signal. Also I dont think the fence would be insulated from the ground. So all that flickering power would be sent right down the fence polls in to the ground. I call BS on this one...

Curse you April fools (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18564081)

Don't toy with me maaan. This better be the real deal, yeah, I see that date. It would just be too cruel for something this cool to be crushed by being a april fools joke.

how dare you (4, Funny)

fermion (181285) | about 7 years ago | (#18564095)

post a real story on april fools day! We barely expect legitimate stories the rest of the year, much less on April 1. Next thing you know stories will be edited to meet standard English requirements.

Re:how dare you (2, Funny)

smash (1351) | about 7 years ago | (#18564415)

Dude, this story was posted on april fools day, to fool those who think it was an april fools into posting crap like "april fools" and "slashdot is so not worth reading until monday", etc..

It's the thinking man's april fools story of the day :D

won't somebody think of the... (2, Funny)

megamerican (1073936) | about 7 years ago | (#18564121)

Without wires, the price of copper will drop. What are all of those copper thieves going to do for money now? Maybe now I'll be able to legally melt all of my pennies again.

To recap (4, Funny)

slickwillie (34689) | about 7 years ago | (#18564167)

Let's see. We have:

Power over Ethernet.
Ethernet over power.

Now we can have Ethernet over Power over Wireless over Ethernet over Power over ....

  I think we are almost there.

Re:To recap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18564577)

The cool part will be the Linux Userspace Power Driver, which allows you to encapsulate power and route it through any other device.

Lifetime (5, Funny)

evilviper (135110) | about 7 years ago | (#18564201)

Pacemakers, defibrillators, and the like require surgery to replace dead batteries. But with a built-in Powercast receiver, those batteries could last a lifetime.

The batteries already last a lifetime!

As in: when they die, you die.

Thank Blimey! (1)

zmollusc (763634) | about 7 years ago | (#18564211)

I have only read the summary, but I am overjoyed by this fantastic new development! Batteries that could last a lifetime! Yippee! I am fed up with laptop and cellphone batteries losing capacity after a couple of years.

Re:Thank Blimey! (1)

Nitewing98 (308560) | about 7 years ago | (#18564557)

Great now we can blow up laptops by remote control! What a great joke to play on your friends! Wait until they *THINK* their laptop battery is low, then refill it wirelessly and watch the fun (and flames) begin!

Re:Thank Blimey! (1)

Devistater (593822) | about 7 years ago | (#18564671)

Has nothing to do with that. Thats a problem from the technological limitations of the battery cycle lifetimes This technology (like TFA says) allows such things as charging your cell phone while you sit at your desk, while its in your pocket.

Sonicare on steroids? (1)

really? (199452) | about 7 years ago | (#18564215)

My toothbrush has been charged wirelessly for years. So, they just cranked up the power? Hmmm

Re:Sonicare on steroids? (1)

compro01 (777531) | about 7 years ago | (#18564437)

My toothbrush has been charged wirelessly for years. So, they just cranked up the power? Hmmm

not quite. what that kind of wireless charger uses is inductive coupling, using coils and using a magnetic field to induce a current in device's coil.

this method uses radio waves, which is a more interesting trick and works over a longer range (inductive charging is limited to a few inches at most with reasonably-sized coils).

still, this isn't delivering an enormous amount of power yet. about enough to drive a cellphone charger (a few volts and a few hundred milliamps). still useful, but not enough to run anything major off.

Sonicare toothbrush: Induction, not transmission (1)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | about 7 years ago | (#18564459)

The Sonicare toothbrush uses induction, not electromagnetic transmission. The little plastic tower on which you set the toothbrush is the primary of a transformer. The secondary of the transformer is in the toothbrush. The primary and secondary must be very close to allow the transfer of power (or the frequency must be high).

Neither induction or electromagnetic transmission allow the transfer of power over significant distance around people, because of the possibility that humans could be in the way.

Normal radio waves involve only microwatts of power, too little to power most electronic devices, which require milliwatts or watts.

So we can mooch off of our neighbors elec. bill?? (0)

FreshDiggz (1082587) | about 7 years ago | (#18564235)

This has to be a joke. Wireless power?? anyone with fundamental knowledge of electronics would see that something like this cant be possible. Current is a flow of electrons which need a high and a low potential to flow. And where would these electrons come from when say, situated in someones heart closed off to any sort of source for renewal of flow. I am certain this is made up, but if its not, it truly is revolutionizing, not only to the world of commerce, but to the world of physics.

Slashdot editors didn't listen in Physics class. (1)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | about 7 years ago | (#18564401)

Agreed. If the FCC allowed the company to transmit 1 Watt, which I doubt, then the power would immediately spread throughout the room and beyond. There is no way to keep the power focused unless both the sending and receiving antenna is close to the size of one wavelength, at least, an unacceptable size. And it would certainly not be acceptable to focus the power, because of concerns about health. (At 900 MHz, the wavelength is 33.4 centimeters [demon.co.uk], about 1 foot. If you don't live in the U.S., you may need to know that the FCC [fcc.gov] is the U.S. government agency that regulates electromagnetic transmissions.)

Question: If this is an April Fools joke, it is the most elaborate one I've seen. Is it a joke or is it fraud? I can't imagine Philips allowing the company name [techspot.com] to be used to advertise an April Fools joke.

It's a tragedy when otherwise intelligent people play video games instead of learning about the world around them.

Wireless power ALREADY a reality (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18564261)

If wireless power didn't exist, RFID tags wouldn't work. This sounds like nothing more than a high-powered RFID reader without the information-transmitting part.

In other words, if it's an April Fools joke, it's not a very good one.


Re:Wireless power ALREADY a reality (1)

jimmydevice (699057) | about 7 years ago | (#18564397)

If energy was free and it didn't cook you of give you cancer, it's a great idea.

Tesla is pissed, and spinning.

Umm: Microwave? (2, Informative)

Irvu (248207) | about 7 years ago | (#18564289)

Microwave power transmission has been a reality since at least the 60's and is still in use today (just don't get in the way :). See Das Vikipediem [wikipedia.org] for more info. I believe also that Nikolai Tesla did some little work in this area again see El Viki [wikipedia.org]

Don't get me wrong I applaud any technology the size of a dime that can be made for $5 and transmit power safely for our nifty home devices and pacemakers but, due respect to CNN's science guys I ain't about to go out and buy Powercast's stock just yet. Especially since the most common use of bradcast power (the Radarange) nd medical tech (pacemakers) are rumoured not to get along together. [straightdope.com]

I wish for you to reply for a business oppotunity (4, Funny)

jimmydevice (699057) | about 7 years ago | (#18564309)

I would like to invest in your development of this super power source. This requires a private arrangement. My company, IM-krook LTD has reviewed your patent and find it valid. IM-krok will be willing to fund the progjct for $40,000,000 Million dollars. USA. We will need a bank deposit number and credit card numbers with pins to verify your sincerity^w^w^w^w. You will receive these funds underlegal claims; all legal documents will be carefully worked out to ensure a risky free transfer. I am willing to pay a generous management fee as well as appreciation as soon as this transaction is financialy sponcored & completed by you. I have all the details. All correspondences will be via email, for now. The funds in question are quite large. I will expect a straight answer from you. Yes or no. If yes, Kindly furnish me with your personal information which must includ your direct cell phone and fax number, your address and company name, then lets work out the modalities from there Thanks and God bless you, Mr. David Yong. Phone: (44) 7024097815

SimCity 2000 (2, Funny)

Fissure_FS2 (220895) | about 7 years ago | (#18564441)

But... the microwave power plant shouldn't be available until around 2028; that's what the strategy guide said!

Like Tesla! (2)

sqwishy (927732) | about 7 years ago | (#18564451)

The Tesla coil can do this [orbit.zkm.de] too. It didn't work the same and It was just a lot more dangerous, but I say that the guys who said, "If you had asked me seven months ago if this was possible, I would have said, 'Are you dreaming?", didn't do their homework. Its very possible, not realistic, but possible!

Government-confiscated research ... (0)

powertobeyourbest (1082601) | about 7 years ago | (#18564465)

wow, it's taken this long for Tesla's (U.S.)government-confiscated research papers to finally see the light...what's next ? device to harness the earth's 'free-energy' ?

Old science, new engineering. (2, Insightful)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | about 7 years ago | (#18564467)

"If you had asked me seven months ago if this was possible, I would have said, 'Are you dreaming? Have you been smoking something?'" says Govi Rao

I thought this was common knowledge 10 years ago, just not the engineering side.

I'm actually taking Slashdot seriously today (1)

istartedi (132515) | about 7 years ago | (#18564473)

Haha! Made you look. April fools. Buh-bye. See you Tuesday. By then, all this stupid crap should have worked its way off the front page.

Re:I'm actually taking Slashdot seriously today (1)

botkiller (181386) | about 7 years ago | (#18564519)

Even if crap like this could be made at this time, I wouldn't want it powering my hearing aide... seriously, let's beam some microwaves DIRECTLY INTO MY BRAIN!

Re:I'm actually taking Slashdot seriously today (1)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | about 7 years ago | (#18564559)

let's beam some microwaves DIRECTLY INTO MY BRAIN!

It's Cancering time!

First 4ost (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18564679)

are attending a Gig in front of 4rima donnas, and blue, rubb+er
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