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Oracle Linux Adopters Suffer Backlash

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the plure-jealousy dept.

Oracle 274

atbarboz writes "One of the first converts to Oracle's support for Linux said it has endured a public backlash since its decision to drop Red Hat. 'Melbourne company Opes Prime Stockbroking told ZDNet Australia that in the weeks following its announcement to adopt Oracle Linux, upset Linux enthusiasts phoned, e-mailed and wrote about the company online to complain at the decision. "People called us out of the blue to tell us we were idiots," said Opes executive director Anthony Blumberg.'"

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274 comments

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FRIST!@ (-1, Flamebait)

aaronoaxaca (1082897) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579187)

umm..yeah

Twofo (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18579205)

Fuckfaces [twofo.co.uk]

Another recent backlash (-1, Troll)

PurifyYourMind (776223) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579217)

Last night my phalls suffered a backlash when I found my girlfriend had installed one of those South African anti-rape devices in you-know-where.

stupid users (5, Insightful)

DreadSpoon (653424) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579219)

Users who call up a company they have no relation to in order to tell them their tech decisions are bad are complete morons. Linux is an OS, not a religion. If a company wants to run Oracle Linux, Red Hat, BeOS, Windows ME, or Mac OS 7 is completely their choice to make.

Re:stupid users (-1, Troll)

c0l0 (826165) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579241)

Bzzzt, wrong. Linux is an operatings system kernel. No more, no less.

Re:stupid users (5, Insightful)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579287)

The word "Linux" has been used for years to signify either the OS or the kernel, depending on context. In fact, usually when people refer to the kernel itself, they will call it "the Linux kernel," while calling the OS "Linux." While your nitpick may be technically correct, you are fighting a battle that was already lost a long time ago, kind of like the battle to call the OS "GNU/Linux."

Re:stupid users (5, Insightful)

dedazo (737510) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579335)

Bzzzt, wrong. Linux is an operatings system kernel. No more, no less.

Can we stop doing this now? People around here know that "Linux" is a kernel. We get it. We've gotten it for the past 10 years. Here's the deal: when used in this context - and just about any other - the term "Linux" refers "a Linux distribution". You realize this, right? Of course.

They might call it "RHEL" or "Mandriva" or "GNU/Linux" if they want to drink from the FSF evangelical cup, but mostly they call it "Linux". Everyone does. It's part of the tech lingo now.

Get over it and stop trying to be clever by posting pointless semantic retorts like these.

Re:stupid users (5, Funny)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579527)

Why? After all, the geek campaign to convince people to not use the word "HACKER" to mean a malicious computer attacker was so successful, right?

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Re:stupid users (4, Funny)

stor (146442) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580681)

Can we stop doing this now? People around here know that "Linux" is a kernel. We get it. We've gotten it for the past 10 years. Here's the deal: when used in this context - and just about any other - the term "Linux" refers "a Linux distribution". You realize this, right? Of course.


Agreed. People should also stop saying "Bzzzt... wrong". It makes them sound like a pretentious turd.

Cheers,
Stor

Re:stupid users (2, Interesting)

shaitand (626655) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579345)

'Linux is an operatings system kernel'

Linux is an operating system. The kernel is the only and only component of the operating system. Everything else is just a library, application, or memory resident application that runs on top of that kernel. You must be confusing an operating system with an operating environment for users, those are called operating system distributions or just distributions.

The confusion in these terms have been inappropriately spread by Microsoft and Apple who refer to their distributions as operating systems because they do not allow competing distributions based upon their operating systems.

Re:stupid users (2, Informative)

Frumious Wombat (845680) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579989)

Actually, they kind of do, they just don't go out of their way to help you do it. You can load OpenDarwin, and run a generic X environment on top, or if you're truly ambitious, X + SheepShaver and get an OS-7 environment with Darwin underneath. You can (allegedly) replace Explorer in Windows with *whatever*, and still run the core Windows OS under your chosen user environment.

If you do either, almost none of your applications will still work, hence why it's not a real popular activity, but the underlying OS is still distinct from the operating environment.

Re:stupid users (1, Interesting)

Fujisawa Sensei (207127) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580133)

Correction Linux is the Linux Operating System's kernel. That's right Linux is a kernel, an operating system, and an operating environment.

Because we're free to use GNU/Free software as long as we stick to the GPL, which lets me call the OS Fred if i want to.

In fact I can create a new operating system, call it something like Penguin OS, use a Linux Kernel and the GNU utilities. Because its mine call whatever I want. And as long as I stick to the terms of the GPL, (And other trademarks regulations), there's nothing RMS (_|_) can do. The correct name for the OS is what ever I call it, because I put it together.

So RMS is free to call his little distro whatever he wants, but neither him nor his lackeys have any business telling the rest of was what to call it.

Re:stupid users (5, Insightful)

user24 (854467) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579315)

How dare you! Linux *is* a religion, the heathens shall repent!

I can't really be bothered to carry on with that line, but I'm sure 20 other people will.

You're right. Fanboyism, whether directed at linux, wikipedia, apple, terry pratchet, HHGTG or whatever, really only acheives the following:
It attracts more fanboys.
The media don't understand it (well done to apple for evading this one).
It puts 'normal' people off.

If you're trying to be taken seriously in, none of the above are desirable traits at all.
That this happened can only damage Linux's reputation.

Re:stupid users (1)

zotz (3951) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579813)

"That this happened can only damage Linux's reputation."

And who might have an interest in doing this? Not that I think it went down that way, but still.....

all the best,

drew

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=zotzbro [youtube.com]
Strange UFO activity on the increase...

Re:stupid users (1)

at_slashdot (674436) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580455)

That this happened can only damage Linux's reputation.

I didn't know Linux had a reputation.

All worked up over only eight servers? (2, Insightful)

ToasterMonkey (467067) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580859)

And only four production. Why is this news even relevant? Is this the BIGGEST RH -> Oracle transition yet? I mean, eight servers... please, that's a pretty damned small Linux environment. On top of that, they even had a good reason to switch. I think the whole article is meant as flamebait. Of course none of you read it...

Religion. (5, Funny)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579333)

Linux is an OS, not a religion.
You're must be new here....

Re:Religion. (1)

IdleTime (561841) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579681)

This time it was actually funny...

Re:Religion. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18580113)

I, for one, welcome our..........ahhhh fuckit.

Religion & Rudeness (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18579397)

Linux is an OS, not a religion.
That is where you are wrong.

It appears that the need for religion is hardwired into human beings. If they reject religion, they tend to find a new one. Some believe in global warming. Some in their political party. Some in Linux.

Also, remember that since the 60s we live in a society where rudeness is rewarded.
What the Baby Boomers taught us was that you can be a total jackass and if you claim it is for a good cause it is not only excused but celebrated.

Mod up. (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579449)

That is a very good point. I'm sorry I'm out of mod points. I don't think I've very met anyone that wasn't a religious about something, even the atheists/ agnostics I've known. Of course my limited experience is not statistically significant in any way, but that observation seems to confirm my experiences.

Re:Mod up. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18580163)

Atheists are religious by definition. They're dead set there's no god.

Re:Mod up. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18580549)

You might want to check the definition of religious. (Also, you're an idiot.)

Re:Mod up. (5, Insightful)

808140 (808140) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580651)

This way of thinking annoys me. It's possible to not believe in something without having any evidence. For example, if I told you that there was an alabaster dildo slowly orbiting our solar system out in the Oort cloud, it would be impossible for you to prove otherwise, given that we lack the necessary technology to zero in on an object that small and that far away. However, it would be reasonable for you to not believe me. I think you can agree that your refusal to believe in the alabaster dildo does not constitute a religion, even though you are technically believing something without having any irrefutable evidence for that belief.

To take this one step further: what if, sometime in the future, our technology improved to the point where we could test the alabaster dildo hypothesis, and, lo and behold, there was in fact a dildo out there floating in the Oort cloud. Would you continue to insist that the dildo did not exist? No. You'd probably be surprised, but you'd just revise your position, probably, and start wondering how on earth that dildo got out there in the first place. This is the fundamental difference between a religious belief and a belief.

I have no doubt that some atheists would in fact continue to deny the existence of God, even if real, hard, scientific evidence for his existence could be demonstrated. But my guess is, those "religious" atheists are a small minority. Most would probably be genuinely surprised, and would probably change their minds on the spot. They're just not holding their breath.

Not believing in something that you feel to be unlikely is not the same as unwavering religious belief. Hell, there are lots of religious people that discount scientifically testable findings simply because they contradict what some old shepherd dudes wrote a couple of millenia ago. This is an example of unwavering religious belief. Even in light of evidence to the contrary, their self-delusion persists.

Re:Religion & Rudeness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18580129)

Excellent remark, if only I had mod points... I absolutely agree with you.

You probably mean ideology (1)

vlad_petric (94134) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580561)

Religion is just one particular type of ideology.

A True Linux User (3, Interesting)

lmnfrs (829146) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579605)

A true Linux user has a moral responsibility to spread awareness of Linux and all its wonders to the wandering souls of the world. Were it not for the Enlightenment brought forth from these Disciples of Torvalds we would all be condemned to an eternity in the fiery pits of welded-hood doom. Amen brothers!

Re:stupid users (4, Funny)

moochfish (822730) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580051)

Linux is an OS, not a religion.


Exactly. It is not a religion! The nerve of some people...

I prefer to call it a cult.

Re:stupid users (2, Insightful)

scdeimos (632778) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580477)

Linux is a kernel.

Re:stupid users (1)

jtsoong (307257) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580757)

Users who call up a company they have no relation to in order to tell them their tech decisions are bad are complete morons. Linux is an OS, not a religion.

Also, people who call up other people in order to tell them their religious decisions are bad are also complete morons.

Cardgame of Belief (1)

drx (123393) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580769)

I recommend the Cardgame of Belief [vonstrago.com] . It's a quartet game, you can have GNU/Linux against Heaven's gate for example.

Advocacy or idiocy, it's all in the approach (5, Insightful)

Dan Stephans II (693520) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579235)

It really is sad to hear of the "zealots" that pull stunts such as calling a company and heckling them for a choice that doesn't impact the zealot one bit.

It's idiocy like this that gives any advocacy a bad name.

Re:Advocacy or idiocy, it's all in the approach (5, Funny)

Adambomb (118938) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579595)

Or, its advocacy like this that gives idiocy a bad name.

This is bad for the public image of Linux and OSS (5, Insightful)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579265)

Look, guys, going around irritating users by calling them idiots, who are really our customers and should be treated as such (whether commercial users or not) is the kind of thing that makes the Linux community look like a bunch of elitist snobs who shout things like 'RTFA' at every question.

Want to know one of the main stumbling blocks to further widespread adoption of Linux? If you're one of the people calling Opes a bunch of idiots, look in the mirror.

Where is my cut? (2, Insightful)

shaitand (626655) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579383)

'who are really our customers'

Maybe they are your customers but my customers earn that classification by giving me some form of payment. Customers are someone you have an obligation to. Nobody has an obligation to these guys except Oracle.

Re:This is bad for the public image of Linux and O (1, Insightful)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579437)

who are really our customers
They are not my customers. The people who call them have no relation to me. You are trying to treat people who use Linux as a single coherent body. It's a phantom, there is no Linux community, there is no coherent body, just a load of individuals.

Want to know one of the main stumbling blocks to further widespread adoption of Linux?
Complete rubbish. There's a huge investment in legacy systems and the added complication of a deliberately maintained network effect.

 

Re:This is bad for the public image of Linux and O (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18579475)

That's half the reason people shout RTFA at every question and call people idiots for using other distros. We DON'T WANT people who can't RTFA clogging up our support forums, and we don't give a shit how widespread Linux becomes. We like being elitist snobs because we hate idiocy, and elitism keeps out all but the elite by definition.

Re:This is bad for the public image of Linux and O (2, Funny)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579497)

Want to know one of the main stumbling blocks to further widespread adoption of Linux?

Like have time to answer that for you. You know how to google, don't you? RTFA! Damn newbs.

Re:This is bad for the public image of Linux and O (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579677)

At one time I lived and breathed tldp.org. The enormous pace at which Linux accelerated coupled with the massive increase in software offerings, though, has left it a little bit dated. Yes, a good portion of the material is still applicable, but just seeing a last modified date that's five years old might be acceptable for a textbook--but it doesn't leave a good impression for a HOWTO.

At the same time, though, if all of the HOWTOs were updated to be in line with current kernel and software versions, they might cease to be instructional and educational HOWTOs and become little more than dinner recipes.

In related news... (-1, Flamebait)

EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579269)

Linux fanboys have no lives.

Re:In related news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18579529)

People who make generalizations are stupid.

Re:In related news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18580219)

Mod orig poster Flame-bait.

Don't believe a word (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18579273)

Linux users would never be THAT stupid, it's just Microsoft's guerrilla PR tactics aimed at discouraging linux use. Ballmer probably made half the calls himself... oops it's guerrilla not gorilla. My bad, Ballmer wasn't involved at all then.

I can even see the marketing campaign to accompany this "Beyond idiocy - Windows vista".

Re:Don't believe a word (3, Insightful)

PitaBred (632671) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579473)

Yeah, Microsoft users are much better [notebookreview.com] ;)

There are zealots on both sides of the fence. Some of them have more sense than others.

Re:Don't believe a word (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18580035)

PitaBred wrote -> "Yeah, Microsoft users are much better ;)"

I think you got it wrong. I read the post at the link you provided and this guy wasn't a zealot. He's *NOT* saying "contact companies that use Microsoft productsn and bash them". He said that he's tired of the zealots who bash Microsoft and their products and said "instead of complaining here in a forum that Microsoft doesn't monitor, contact Microsoft directly and complain there".

What he said actually makes a ton of sense. Go to the source of what you percieve to be the problem. It's just like when I tell my daughter "if you don't like what the government does, then do something about it. Vote, protest, write you congress people, write the president, run for office. Do something, don't just complain."

Re:Don't believe a word (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18580581)

Shoot the stupid fuckers ...

That is what I always suggest when talking about the government. After all, it says in the constitution we can shoot them doesn't it?

Re:Don't believe a word (1)

blowdart (31458) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579607)

it's just Microsoft's guerrilla PR tactics aimed at discouraging linux use

I hope you meant that as +1 funny; the sad thing is some people will believe it anyway. Which kind of proves the point about some linux users being idiotic enough to call someone they don't know who swapped one distro for another and call them idiots.

Re:Don't believe a word (1)

Braxton_Bragg (902868) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580535)

Ya know what ? Fsck Red Hat ! I bought their boxed sets for a couple years, and supported their product. They are are just greedy stinking bastards, and their distro sucks (see RPM)! By the way I got around Oracle's silly ( back in the day) stance of "we only support Red Hat 5.x" by editing a text file. Duh ! Suck Me Red Hat

Enough infighting... (5, Insightful)

MrWGW (964175) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579275)

You know, I think this kind of incident is really unfortunate, in that it really is going to do nothing other than bolster a negative perception of the Linux community. A company deploys a distro of Linux, and is immediately subject to a barrage of criticism for selecting that particular distro. Would those complaining about the use of Unbreakable Linux rather the company had instead chosen to be an all-Windows environment?

Another aspect I don't get in all of this is the preference for Red Hat over Oracle. Red Hat is a great company that has contributed a lot to Linux, but to be fair, they are also a company that does not provide free access to downloads of their signature product (which is why we have CentOS), and a company the CEO of which once stated that Windows was a superior alternative to Linux for desktop users (admittedly a few years ago). Oracle, on the other hand, makes Unbreakable Linux freely availible to anyone who wants to download it, and additionally, also gave a major boost to Linux when it started supporting Linux as a platform in the late 1990s.

To be clear, though, I am not saying that Oracle has a better record than Red Hat, rather, that the two have both made contributions to the Linux community, and for a large number of people to attack a company for using Unbreakable Linux as opposed to RHEL is, in my opinion, retarded.

Re:Enough infighting... (1)

cyphercell (843398) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579511)

Here, Here!!

Personally, I've hated Red Hat since it was my first run in with Linux, I spent $60 on a book that came with a copy of Red Hat 9, two months later...
I hate Red Hat. Fedora - no thanks.

Re:Enough infighting... (1)

Ash Vince (602485) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579795)

I dont particularly like Redhat either. But Oracle is very similar from what I am told.

Also, now that I am out in the real world of work I seem to have found myself supporting a bunch of linux servers. And guess what? they run Redhat. Not my choice, but I kinda like getting paid and replacing them is too costly to be worth bothering with.

If Oracle supported SunOne ASP I might recommend switching but as it is, the only other option I could suggest that anyone might have supported would have been Solaris and that was too different from what we were used to.

Incidentally if someone out there can recommend a modern, supported, decent linux platform that will run VBScript based ASP currently running under chillisoft I would love to hear any suggestions. Anyone recommending rewriting it should consider that it has taken 5 years to write in the first place. Eventually the entire app will probably be converted to PHP but this will take a while and be done incrementally so the company can carry on turning a profit.

Re:Enough infighting... (3, Insightful)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579659)

Please explain how CentOS exists if RedHat does not "provide free access to downloads of their signature product".

Re:Enough infighting... (1)

MrWGW (964175) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579793)

Presumably someone from the CentOS project pays for a Red Hat support plan (or two, or three), and in return is able to download the product (and get the sources as required by the GPL). Remember, the GPL allows you to charge for your product, and that's pretty much what RHEL does (although you can alternatively get a trial account and access the downloads in that manner).

Re:Enough infighting... (2)

Jherek Carnelian (831679) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580081)

Presumably someone from the CentOS project pays for a Red Hat support plan (or two, or three), and in return is able to download the product (and get the sources as required by the GPL).

Or they just go HERE [redhat.com] .

Re:Enough infighting... (3, Informative)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580093)

Presumably someone from the CentOS project pays for a Red Hat support plan (or two, or three), and in return is able to download the product (and get the sources as required by the GPL).
Please come back when you know what you are talking about. Have you ever looked at Red Hat's ftp site? For example: all the source you could want without any login requirement. [redhat.com]

Re:Enough infighting... (1)

just_another_sean (919159) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580369)


Please explain how CentOS exists if RedHat does not "provide free access to downloads of their signature product".


I'm pretty sure it's clear the GP meant in "easy to install ISO form". As is well known and mentioned in other posts RedHat makes all the source, and binaries, available for their products but you have to get the pieces yourself and put them together into something usable. If you want a complete, no fuss package you go with CentOS.

Or I guess you could go with Oracle and download Unbreakable Linux, although they ask you to register to get it and they really do just want to sell you databases and related services. I can't see much of a community developing around UL. If you need a database, like Oracle for whatever reason and have a budget for software and services then I guess Oracle isn't a bad choice.

Regardless, calling someone an idiot for choosing it is pretty ignorant. Despite my lack of interest in it I can think of a few viable reasons for a company to to deploy it...

Re:Enough infighting... (1)

Frumious Wombat (845680) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580089)

Amiga Persecution Syndrome, redux. That company is lucky the calls calling them idiots didn't devolve into conference calls with the callers fighting over RedHat vs. Debian GNU/Linux vs. Gentoo. It's a worrisome trend in OS devotees, as I remember people being VMS partisans, or OS/360 worshippers (which is fair, since miss a sacrifice to a 3090 and it's likely to eat a programmer or two in retribution), but very few systems inspire this rabid, lunatic-fringe, behaviour. Amigas, OS/2, and Linux. There is a Cult of Mac (and I'll admit that I've drunk the kool-aid on that one), but it's more placidly self-satisfied than off-their-meds rabid.

So, Larry Ellison is not going to get the Nobel Peace Prize (Tom Siebel who left Oracle to found his own company once said that "he wanted to run a more humane company than Oracle", and "he runs the company along the lines of his former employer, the US Marine Corps."), but it's still Linux. It's not like Larry put his money into porting OS/400 to Intel Hardware, and told them to use Oracle/400 or be sent to Siberia. I didn't think the "community" liked RedHat well enough to get up the energy for a "You're Not Using RedHat? You SucK!" campaign.

What a bunch of maroons (3, Insightful)

Fulcrum of Evil (560260) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579281)

How dare you not drink our koolaid!" /froth froth froth

We use Linux for a lot of things here where I work, but if we moved to some other OS, or some other comapny changed platforms, I wouldn't take it personally. I only care if they offer inferior service or compromise data, which is more a matter of ops.

Maroons? (1)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580359)

They might be stupid zealots, but I'm not sure I'd liken them to slaves [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Maroons? (1)

Fulcrum of Evil (560260) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580591)

yet another person who's never seen a bugs bunny cartoon. I weep for the future.

I can't blame them one bit (1, Flamebait)

Explodo (743412) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579289)

As a Red Hat subscriber, I can tell you that their support is complete crap. I'm required to have Red Hat so customers/partners can't say that their apps don't work because I'm not on the same platform, but I'd never have it otherwise.

Their support people aren't helpful. In the time that it takes for them to help me with something, I can look it up online(not on the Red Hat site) and figure it out. Anybody who's not a Linux expert knows that figuring out how to do random things in Linux on your own can be quite a painful process, so I think that conveys my message quite well. In addition, their hardware support is terrible.

Red Hat Enterprise Linux is by far the worst Linux I've used and I don't blame anybody for going with something other than Red Hat.

Re:I can't blame them one bit (1)

illegalcortex (1007791) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579375)

I'm required to have Red Hat so customers/partners can't say that their apps don't work because I'm not on the same platform, but I'd never have it otherwise.
I'm going to need to see you grammar license, sir.

Re:I can't blame them one bit (5, Funny)

illegalcortex (1007791) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579413)

I'm going to need to see you'RE grammar license, sir.
Oh, the ironing!

Re:I can't blame them one bit (1)

Harmonious Botch (921977) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579489)

YOUR

Re:I can't blame them one bit (1)

Wudbaer (48473) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579537)

your

Irony indeed. :-)

Re:I can't blame them one bit (1)

illegalcortex (1007791) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579683)

The sad part is that I was doing it as a joke rather than a grammar flame. The real grammar flamers would have been sure to get it right the first time. The second time, I was actually distracted by trying to get my html tags right and wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. Ah well, even good comedians flub a joke now and then.

Re:I can't blame them one bit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18580517)

This message brought to you by Mark Shuttleworth.

Get a life!! (2, Informative)

Blahbooboo3 (874492) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579297)

Seriously, this is what gives Linux a bad reputation. To take time out of your day to harass a company for changing Linux support/distro is just insane. People wonder why getting companies to switch to LInux is so hard? It's this crazy rep that Linux has of being filled with "maverick/crazy" users. Way to go guys in further perpetuating a negative Linux stereotype. Thanks for helping get Linux accepted in the enterprise as a professional system(s).

This is not good (1)

vdboor (827057) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579305)

This is not good at all for getting Linux used more often. It seams Linux are the most difficult users to please. If each "getting-Linux-implemented-somewhere" project is backslashed like this one, it becomes harder to get Linux implemented anywhere.

Now that's a *really* good way to appear mature (5, Insightful)

jimicus (737525) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579325)

What on Earth does anyone think contacting some organisation (that they probably have no contact with in day to day life) to tell them that they're idiots is going to achieve? More to the point, if it's not a public sector organisation and the people calling aren't shareholders, what the hell business is it of theirs?

A common selling point of open source is "if you don't like the support, you have the freedom to go elsewhere". Reading between the lines of the article, it seems like Opes have done just that. So as soon as someone decides they don't like the support and they want to go elsewhere, this is what they get? One thing I'm sure of, it certainly isn't going to encourage anyone to adopt Red Hat.

I bet the reaction would be totally different if they moved to Oracle Linux from some other commercial Unix.

Re:Now that's a *really* good way to appear mature (1)

value_added (719364) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580297)

What on Earth does anyone think contacting some organisation (that they probably have no contact with in day to day life) to tell them that they're idiots is going to achieve?

Raise public awareness? Change? Admittedly, on the face of it, I'm eager to dismiss actions are juvenile but, then again, I smirk at the folks in Starbucks buying or selling "fair trade" coffee. None of them, I'd bet, has ever travelled to Latin America or even seen a coffee bean before it's been picked and roasted, or met a coffee farmer.

More to the point, if it's not a public sector organisation and the people calling aren't shareholders, what the hell business is it of theirs?

Can't answer that one, but it's worth pointing more and more public corporations are in the habit of adopting mission statements that include deference to any number of activist concerns (baby seals, child labour, government corruption, environmental issues, political stances, etc.), and then set up internal departments to address such concerns. Many even go so far as to allow outside invidividuals as board members.

Again, I think the actions are embarrassing at best. But that's not to say I don't appreciate (or at least enjoy with everyone else) the hard work and success of all the nutjob activists who came before me, and the new ones which pop whenever an important issue presents itself. Linux isn't a religeon, but like most things in life, there is an undeniable political element to the whole discussion. Most people don't vote so it should be no surprise that those same people prefer to let others do the hard and dirty work of playing politics.

Conversions? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18579343)

I hope this isn't the same procedure those Heaven's Gate guys had to go through. Different cult.

Microsoft did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18579367)

I bet Microsoft had a part in the calls...

this great (1)

cyphercell (843398) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579411)

What a nice selling point for Gnu/Linux. "Choose our software and when you switch vendors we will summon the power of the fanboys." This is insane, I use free software as much as I can, everywhere it fits. Behaviour like this just states that while OSS is ready for the enterprise, the community is not. Grow up, let Unbreakable Linux either thrive or die. Either way the community improves for it. You really think it's impossible for Unbreakable to contribute back to Red Hat, or supply something different with the same software, maybe just maybe these guys went to Oracle not because of the cost of support, but because Oracle just so happens to support integration with, you know a particular enterprise application that's been a market leader for a while now?

Re:this great (2, Funny)

PTBarnum (233319) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579589)

Indeed, having fan boys call people up to ridicule them is unprofessional. Proper, enterprise ready companies just throw chairs.

Novell/suse email list has freaks (1)

sjwest (948274) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579687)

As a suse user (pre Novell purchasing i will add) Last year I informed the general email users list why i was leaving to go to another distro because of the announced m/s novell deal and thanked them all for any hints and tips for the 'hobby version' they occasionally supplied. I was rational and adopted a calm term in the message.

I was later accused by some more vocal 'open suse' users on that email list that my objection's where irrational and would i please shut up.

I did just that and i moved on successfully. As to the Microsoft fan boys i found - i must admit i was surprised to find them there.

Anyhow - rational is hard to define i suppose

Allow me to be the first... (2, Insightful)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579423)

Linus >= Jesus, therefore [insert convoluted defense for childish behavior here]. Mods, mod this insightful.

Re:Allow me to be the first... (1)

vic-traill (1038742) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579889)

Linus >= Jesus, ...

Oh man - do you know what happened to the Beatles when John Lennon said that? Particularly right before Easter.

Anyway, they're burning your albums outside my window right now.

Re:Allow me to be the first... (1)

Mister Whirly (964219) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580881)

"Mods, mod this insightful."

You are doing it wrong. If you really want to karma-whore properly, you need to start the post with "I know I will probably be modded down for this, but "

Hardware support? (2, Interesting)

C3ntaur (642283) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579467)

Hardware support is going to be an issue for anyone that chooses to run Oracle Linux. Hardware vendors certify only certain OS makes and models on their boxes, and so far I haven't seen Oracle Linux on the certified lists. It's no fun fighting with your vendor for support and being told you have to install a supported OS before they'll acknowledge that the error you're seeing is caused by their hardware and not the OS that you chose to run.

Oracle might think they're onto something here, but I doubt it's going to catch on until they either A) sell their own hardware and support the entire stack from top to bottom, or B) get their OS certified by most or all of the major hardware vendors -- including card manufacturers like QLogic, EMC, Emulex, and Intel, who like the box vendors, only certify to certain OSes.

Hang on for a second... (2, Insightful)

DogDude (805747) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579491)

Hang on for a second... I thought that one of the MAIN REASONS that Linux people push Linux so hard is because it avoids scary lock-in. Linux is Linux, right? Switching should be no big deal for customers, since there's no worry about lock-in using Linux... right? I honestly have no idea because every time I've tried Linux, I've never gotten it set up to the point of being functional.

Re:Hang on for a second... (4, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579709)

I thought that one of the MAIN REASONS that Linux people push Linux so hard is because it avoids scary lock-in. Linux is Linux, right? Switching should be no big deal for customers, since there's no worry about lock-in using Linux... right?

Linux is not the problem. Oracle is the problem. But then, Red Hat fanatics are bar none the worst fanboys in my ever-so-humble opinion. Gentoo users are often like rice boys, but they're using the system and I have no beef with them. I'm a Ubuntu user these days, so clearly I have nothing against Ubuntu users (I'm not one of them self-hating types.) But Red Hat users, which I stopped being around 6.1, are clinging desperately to a distribution that doesn't care about them unless they have shitpiles of money. That goes for Fedora, too. ObDisclaimer: This is all my opinion. You may feel differently. If I think you're being a bozo in your reply to this comment, I may flame you. You have been warned.

Oracle is one of the great anti-freedom evils of our time simply because they backed the national ID database. Corporations have no heart - Oracle is willing to get behind such a proposal simply to sell their product.

You are welcome to forget! Everyone else does anyway. But Oracle is bad and wrong and supporting Oracle is therefore bad and wrong.

Re:Hang on for a second... (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579761)

Disclaimer: This is all my opinion. You may feel differently. If I think you're being a bozo in your reply to this comment, I may flame you. You have been warned.
I'm so tempted... =D

Re:Hang on for a second... (1)

oGMo (379) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580143)

Red Hat fanatics are bar none the worst fanboys in my ever-so-humble opinion. Gentoo users are often like rice boys, but they're using the system and I have no beef with them. I'm a Ubuntu user these days, so clearly I have nothing against Ubuntu users (I'm not one of them self-hating types.) But Red Hat users, which I stopped being around 6.1, are clinging desperately to a distribution that doesn't care about them unless they have shitpiles of money. That goes for Fedora, too

Odd... I've never met anyone who was actually fanatical about RedHat. Or even really liked it. It usually comes down to either "we can buy support for it" or "it installs and is hands-off after that." Back when I still used Fedora, I fell into the latter category... tolerating it, because it worked.

I use Gentoo these days, because I was compiling everything by hand anyway. I haven't met any "distro ricers"; I think these days they're mostly a myth, and early stereotype. All of the people I know who use Gentoo use it because of the amazing build toolset and customizability. I can compile everything with "-g" and debug anything on the system through glibc... and see source listings at any stack frame. That's incredibly valuable. Plus, Gentoo is more of a distro-construction kit; if I have to build an "embedded" box, it's still the easiest distro to trim the fat (because it starts with none) yet have access to anything you want. But it's hard, and not for newbies, which is why I think most of the ricers left.

Debian is too political for me.

Ubuntu I have heard nothing but good things about. Drop the debian politics, add an amazing installer and good defaults... at least, according to what I've heard (and no reason to doubt). This is probably the best alternative for people who want an alternative system and don't want to buy Apple hardware. I keep meaning to try this, but I haven't had a reason yet. When I do, I will.

You are welcome to forget! Everyone else does anyway. But Oracle is bad and wrong and supporting Oracle is therefore bad and wrong.

Sadly they also make a solid product. Painful, archaic, requiring a lot of support work, but solid. The alternatives are what: Microsoft (far more evil), and PgSQL (not there yet, but coming along). MSSQL sucks, anyway. There aren't really any other realistic choices.

Re:Hang on for a second... (1)

doom (14564) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580865)

Sadly they also make a solid product. Painful, archaic, requiring a lot of support work, but solid. The alternatives are what: Microsoft (far more evil), and PgSQL (not there yet, but coming along).

Postgresql is perhaps not yet at the point where I would tell an Oracle installation they needed to drop what they're doing and switch, but Postgresql is definitely far enough along that there's no way that any one should set-up a new system using Oracle -- which is to say that Oracle is already a legacy product.

Whatever advantages the Oracle world may have over Postgresql, there's no way they're worth paying the licensing fees.

Er, Houston? (4, Insightful)

87C751 (205250) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579521)

"People called us out of the blue to tell us we were idiots," said Opes executive director Anthony Blumberg.'"
And there's no chance at all this could be astroturf, right?

Why does the distro matter (1)

Twillerror (536681) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579603)

Kind of off topic, but related.

Why does the disto seem to matter so much. I'm a developer and I get the idea of linking to some extent, but why is that I can have a Windows app that was desinged for 95 that still runs fine in 2003, but when I get a binary of for an older version of Linux I have to recompile it for newer other distros.

We recently wanted to run Snort, but we didn't want to use a support distro. We ended up recompiling the code, but it seems like a bit much to me.

Part of Windows draw is the installers. I know the RPM and Debian packages are a favorite amoungst Linux advocates, but installers still have their advantage in being accessible.

Why is it that Oracle neeeds to be worry so much about the distro's it will support.

They've just made Microsoft's job easier (1)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579613)

The sales rep from Microsoft now cruises in. Cool, calm, collected, laid back. "Hey, if you want to run a mixed environment, more power to you. We respect that. We'll just do our best to prove to you that Microsoft can handle all of your needs." He says with a wink and a smile. Meanwhile, long-haired Gnuzealots sharpen their stakes and light their pitchforks.

If you are a suit, who are you going to trust?

This is dumb. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18579661)

This is just an operating system. Like the other person in this thread, this is not a religion or life necessity that must be defending with fanatical defenses. Oracle has some good support personnel but that is somewhat a biased judgment since I used to work for them. However since I left I have no idea what support people are left since most of I used to work with are gone now. If you don't like Oracle Linux support you can always go back to Red Hat or someone else. Harassing people for just a simple view point is dumb.

Oracle support makes sense for them big-time. (3, Insightful)

Ungrounded Lightning (62228) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579663)

Near the end of TFA is the important reason for them to get their support from Oracle:

They're running Oracle's application server and database on some of the mission-critical servers.

With Oracle supporting both the application and the OS under it there's no time and money lost to finger-pointing when something gets hosed. Instead a single team buckles down and fixes it immediately.

(Presuming they ever need service. One of the comments from Red Hat indicates that they may never have actually had to USE the service contract. Take THAT, Microsoft! B-) )

pl0s 4, Troll) (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18579685)

server crashes *BSD is dying It is at times. From

False Flag? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18579759)

How do we know it was Linux zelouts? RedHat? Microsoft?

Re:False Flag? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18579883)

Hi, I represent the united tinworkers of America and I'm here to provide you with an offer that appears to be right up your alley. Tired of those tinfoil hats tearing, getting crushed or otherwise falling apart due to being made from such flimsey material?

Well worry no longer, with our patented alloy comprised of tin and titanium, this will be the last piece of metallic headware you'll ever need to purchase.

So the next time you have a secret truth that needs spreading, don't take a chance of having holes in your tin hat and letting the mind control rays in, wear a tri-tin-ium protective headpiece. You won't be sorry!

WTF? (1)

iamacat (583406) | more than 7 years ago | (#18579997)

Anyone has a right to bundle and sell a Linux distro and more choice is better for the future of the platform. I venture a wild guess that with Oracle Linux, you might have less problems installing Oracle software. Let RedHat come up with some other advantages.

Redhat's support is godawful (4, Insightful)

puppetluva (46903) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580399)

RedHat support is some of the worst support I've ever seen in the marketplace. Indeed, it is far worse than Microsoft's (which is pathetic). All the companies that I'm affiliated with use Suse if they want support nowadays. (and I HATE the patent deal that Novell did with Microsoft, but Redhat is so damn miserable at support, there isn't much of a choice).

Novell's support isn't great, but at least they call you back. I don't think I've ever gotten Redhat to call back on any support issue over the 4 years I was a customer. (The only reaction I've ever seen from their customer support is to quietly close my tickets that stayed open for more than a year -- without ever putting in an explanatory note or fixing the problem, of course)

If that company wants to go with Oracle so they can actually get real support, more power to them. They could switched to using Microsoft Windows. . . but they didn't - and for that I'm glad.

What's wrong with advocacy? (2, Insightful)

Cal Paterson (881180) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580431)

Surely if people feel strongly that something someone is doing is wrong they should be able to talk about it and protest about it?

There's a lot of talk here about "How dare they tell Opes that they're being idiots!" Like there's something wrong with making your opinion of something heard.

If people only took an interest in something that directly affected them, this world would be a far shallower place. Surely inconvience is a price to pay for the chance to say what you want to say? As far as I can see, no one's being a jackass - there's no direct impairment of the companys trade - people are simply calling them up and telling them they're idiots.

It's called freedom of expression.

Re:What's wrong with advocacy? (1)

lactose99 (71132) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580775)

It's called freedom of expression.

Its one thing to go on Slashdot and say they are idiots. Its another to complain directly to a company who is running child labor camps in 3rd world countries. Its another ENTIRELY when someone who has no business relationship with a company calls this company to tell them they are idiots for choosing a particular OS support company.

The latter is not only a complete waste of time for everyone involved, but it shows a real lack of civility for those trying to make the case for Linux in business (not being tied to a single vendor).

The *real* one true religion (1)

Yeechang Lee (3429) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580469)

Bah! Simpletons! Infidels! Heretics! Everyone knows that the one true religion, computingwise at least, is the Church of Emacs [dina.kvl.dk] . Repent!!!

So long as it runs in Ubuntu, Oracle can ship it (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580777)

Really, it depends on the exact libraries used, but most apps written for one Linux distro work in another - and frequently will work under BSD.

They weren't even RedHat customers (3, Interesting)

kernelpanicked (882802) | more than 7 years ago | (#18580863)

Meanwhile, McLaren told ZDNet Australia Opes had acquired Red Hat support subscriptions with the purchase of two servers from channel partner Dell. The hardware vendor then was responsible for providing Red Hat support to Opes.

I guess nobody reads the articles anymore, but appearently they weren't even RedHat customers. The ran RHEL but only by way of Dell. It would seem to me that if they wanted the best support maybe they should actually have tried paying RedHat for a frickin support contract. RedHat is a mighty generous company but they're not going to call you up out of the blue and offer you support just for the hell of it.

My personal opinion is that they are going from one bad support situation (DELL) to another (Oracle), but it's their business and they have every right to make dumbass decisions. As for people calling them out of the blue to tell them how retarded they are, I have to call bullshit. I don't think anybody knows or cares who these people are or what distro they run.
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