Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Annual H-1B Visa Cap Met In One Day

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the cheap-indentured-servitude dept.

Politics 473

CNet is reporting that the door has closed on the H1-B visa application process for this year, one day after it began. The US Citizenship and Immigration Services said that it had received 150,000 applications as of yesterday afternoon. 65,000 H1-B visas can be issued for foreigners with bachelor's degrees. The USCIS will choose randomly from the applications to determine the winners.

cancel ×

473 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

US? (0, Troll)

nighty5 (615965) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599221)

Who would want to work in the US anyway?

Better off heading to Europe.

Re:US? (1)

bobbozzo (622815) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599367)

How do I get one of them batchelor's degrees??

Re:US? (1)

tftp (111690) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599581)

Here [batchelor.edu.au] :-)

Re:US? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599381)

Indians, apparently.

Re:US? (2, Informative)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599435)

My company has a fairly large presence in India. Recently, one of our India employees came to the US for a few weeks to work with us. He mentioned that working in India, he could expect to work for 10 years before he could afford to buy a house. However, if he were to work in the US, he could afford a home in India after only 2 years of work. If I were an Indian, I would want to work in the US too.

Re:US? (3, Insightful)

liuyunn (988682) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599945)

well good for him
Folks here in the midwest still take 30 years to pay off their mortgage. Maybe we should start thinking about moving to India.

Re:US? (1)

eht (8912) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599471)

Apparently well over twice as many people as we'll even begin to look it.

And that doesn't even count the people who took too long to submit their forms.

Re:US? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599727)

Who would want to work in the US anyway?
Us?

Re:US? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599767)

Who would want to work in the US anyway? Better off heading to Europe.
Not really. It is much easier to live in the US. For one thing, as an immigrant myself, and inspite of the constant rants about racism I've heard, I have found that as long as you avoid some of the more obvious states (the Bible belt comes to mind), racism and bigotry are rare in the US. I know for a fact that Germany is NOT a place where non-westerners would be as welcome as in ANY place in the US. Same goes for the Scandinavian countries where political parties gain power based on the single issue of keeping foreigners out. Aside from England, I don't know of any European country that is remotely as attractive as the US for a potential immigrant (and England is a rather ghetto version of the US at this point in history). France is a bit of a joke frankly (as far as immigration by non-westerners is concerned, they're as cosmopolitan as hilbillies :P).

No, I think it's safe to say that the US always has been and always will be the place where people immigrate to. Unless of course the people here develop the disease of meaningless nationalistic jingoism like the rest of the banana republics in the world. Oh wait...

Re:US? (2, Insightful)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599795)

Apparently most of the world wants to work here since large numbers apply for work and come here illegally. I've had a lot of friends who are English, Dutch, French, ETC. Most of them complain about the US and talk about how much better it is in their home country. Funny they still live and work here so it doesn't help their argument. It's hardly perfect but there must be some pluses since so many fight hard to get and stay here. I have an Australian friend that decided to go back. He stuck it out for 9 months and mostly stayed that long because it took him that long to earn the money to come back. He found he could earn nearly twice as much here for the same job and he had access to more things here. He still likes to boast of Australia but I haven't heard him talk about moving back since his trip back. It's not knocking other countries, I love Europe personally, it's like voting with your dollars in a sense. If it's so awful here why do you want to live here and a hell of a lot of people do want to live here.

Re:US? (3, Insightful)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599993)

Who would want to work in the US anyway? Better off heading to Europe.

Europeans don't tolerate threats to their career the same way Americans seem to, and cap the visas lower. Europeans take labor unions seriously, while Americans shun them. Unions have a bad rap in the US because they've gotten carried away and created silly rules that companies have to follow. It may take a generation or two before the stigma wears off and/or unions don't keep making the same mistakes.
     

First post! (-1, Offtopic)

Randseed (132501) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599229)

First post! Waaaah! :)

Re:First post! (1)

RobBebop (947356) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599273)

batchelor's degrees? shouldn't this be bachelor's degree [wikipedia.org] ?

Maybe the US is simply recognizing that our own standards have fallen so low that when a foriegn-born individual comes waving his or her "batchelor's degree", we welcome them with open arms because we are none-the-wiser.

Re:First post! (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 7 years ago | (#18600027)

batchelor's degrees? shouldn't this be bachelor's degree?

That's for an expert in writing nightly batch scripts for database updates and virus scans.
         

Shouldn't be a lottery. (5, Interesting)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599231)

Those spots should be auctioned off. The more an employer is paying for an H1-B visa, the more highly-skilled the worker in question is likely to be. IOW, we really will be getting those people with skills we can't find here.

-jcr

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (3, Insightful)

Chandon Seldon (43083) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599339)

That sounds like a good idea, as long as you ignore the feedback effect of any government auctions. I'm not sure that making H1B visas a revenue source is really conducive to fair policy decisions in the future.

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599441)

They already are a revenue source. Just not for the federal government.

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (1)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599451)

That would depend on whether the revenue went to the agency that decided how many visas to allow. There would be several factors at play, including corporate pressure on congress to increase the number of visas (as we have now), and also to restrict the number of visas (with the usual xenophobic arguments).

-jcr

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (5, Funny)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599351)

That's a classic catch-22, since first we'd need people with the skills to implement such an idea.

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (2, Funny)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599469)

Piece of cake: just outsource the app to implement it to InfoSys in Bangalore.

-jcr

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599353)

Rather than that, the number should just be increased to infinity. After all, who cares about American students, workers and citizens? If we replace the entire American workforce with virtual slave labor, corporations can reduce their bottom line. There's nothing wrong with America becoming a nation of highly educated burger flippers in the span of a generation, anyway.

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599399)

Damn, I don't know which idea I like better... unlimited H1-B Visas or company auctions...

I'd have to go with this one, the unlimited Visas seem more ripe for causing disaster. Auctions, while giving that warm fuzzy feeling of fleecing HugeConglomCo, doesn't have much of a chaos factor.

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599761)

That's right. Because Americans deserve the jobs more than the foreigners.

Come to think of it, let's also get all the niggers and jews for breathing our air and stealing our women!!!!11!!!1

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (0)

loconet (415875) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599359)

Right, because we all know only wealthy individuals are skillful and capable of contributing towards our "first world" society.

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599437)

Uh. Obviously the employer wishing to displace the American worker with an H1-B would be paying for it. Not the H1-B.

This is a great idea... (1)

Chmcginn (201645) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599465)

The profits from the visa auctions could be used to retrain/pay unemployment for the workers getting replaced. Just like the 'lotteries paying for school' thing all those states do. And we know they'd never, ever raid that cash for other stuff... right?

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599681)

Brilliant.

This would really prove that they can't get enough qualified applicants from within the country.

As we all know, H1Bs are only about depressing wages.

LK

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (4, Insightful)

Lewisham (239493) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599703)

You aren't wrong, but getting the H1-B is difficult enough already. The company has to want you really bad to burn up an application, without a guarantee of success, that only happens once a year, and if I remember right, have proof that an American applicant couldn't have filled the position. For the applicant it's all those things plus convincing the company you're worth it and probably having to fly there to see said company in person.

I don't see what else this would achieve without just being a way of gouging money, and further screwing job-seekers who actually want to pay taxes, contribute to the economy and the growth of American companies. I don't subscribe to the idea that skilled workers take American jobs, I believe they help companies grow and generate more jobs in the long-term.

I think that IT is indeed a global economy, and if America is not willing to take on the view that companies can benefit from cherry-picking out of an international workforce, someone else, like Canada or Sweden, will, and companies there will grow.

Disclaimer: Yes, I am a bitter UK citizen with a Masters degree that can't get a visa to live with his Californian girlfriend that I met during my year of study in the USA. We had to come to New Zealand for us both to continue being together without getting married.

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (4, Insightful)

kevin lyda (4803) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599765)

Never been to NZ, but from what I've seen/heard it sounds like you got a better deal.

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (1)

sethawoolley (1005201) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599729)

Yeah, we could setup a stage and then auction off the people with the highest skills.

I'll be just like south of the mason-dixon line before the war.

slight correction and amendment (1)

sethawoolley (1005201) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599779)

s/I'll/It'll/

The proceeds should go to transporting poor families from places where they aren't highly skilled to those places where manual labor is needed.

They won't have Television to entice them into debt, but at least they'll now be able to afford the food or have enough space to do their own subsistence farming to survive.

Let's start with families on welfare while we're at it.

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (1)

ddoctor (977173) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599871)

Auctioning visas doesn't work because people being paid large salaries are not necessarily more skilled or more valuable to the economy.

It's a similar argument as higher education - higher education should be accessible for those academically qualified, not those economically affluent.

--
A doctor of philosophy stocks boxes of rock prophecies to block the toxins properly

Re:Shouldn't be a lottery. (1)

Yez70 (924200) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599925)

Actually these spots need to be increased.

250,000 seems like a better number, especially if we allocated about half of them to medical fields - a field the US is sorely in need of more skilled people.

Considering millions of unwanted people come in illegally, why not increase the number of legal and desired immigrants? Instead our idiotic system keeps the skilled immigrants we want and desire out, yet lets the illegals who burden the system walk across the border without fear of repercussion.

Not an english major (5, Funny)

gkozlyk (247448) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599267)

Batchelor degrees, eh? Didn't know you could get those too.

Re:Not an english major (4, Funny)

aalu.paneer (872021) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599333)

Yes, people with Batchelor degrees do bach processing.

kdawson FOR THE WIN at posting articles (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599279)

Kdawson, please suck my balls. Hard. Really hard. You make this site suck even more than it normally would. It's half as bad as digg at this point. You actually submitted a headline where the moron spelled it batchelor

Re:kdawson FOR THE WIN at posting articles (2, Informative)

illegalcortex (1007791) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599313)

You actually submitted a headline where the moron spelled it batchelor
Which moron? Isn't this a submission created by kdawson? I don't see any "So and so writes" in front of the article text. This would imply there was no second moron involved.

Re:kdawson FOR THE WIN at posting articles (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599575)

You really need a vacation when an extra "t" on a website gets you that riled up.

Re:kdawson FOR THE WIN at posting articles (2, Informative)

Jose (15075) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599687)

kdawson does seem pretty lazy, leaving out the "dept" section a lot, posting *obviously* wrong and misleading summaries of stories, and not bothering to update the story..just seems lazy.

We need more (5, Insightful)

phathead296 (461366) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599281)

Is there anyone else here who thinks this is an indication that we need more Visas?

While millions of unskilled illegals flood our borders every year, stressing our social safety net, the people we want in this country can't get in. We need more skilled workers who want to work within the system and work here legally and fewer unskilled workers who end up with a free ride at taxpayer's--mine and your--expense.

Re:We need more (4, Insightful)

illegalcortex (1007791) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599343)

It's questionable what percentage of these H1-B workers would be as desirable if they were here on regular visas. H1-B puts the employee in a certain position that very advantageous to the employer. I wouldn't mind finding out, though. I'm all for ditching the H1-B system and allowing full, unlimited immigration to highly skilled workers.

Re:We need more (3, Insightful)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599355)

Please explain how letting in more highly skilled workers would keep low skilled workers from entering the country illegally. Unless you're suggesting hiring H1-B workers as border patrol agents, I don't see it.

Re:We need more (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599867)

Unless you're suggesting hiring H1-B workers as border patrol agents, I don't see it.

Dude, I think you're on to something there.
     

Re:We need more (1)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599393)

Is there anyone else here who thinks this is an indication that we need more Visas?

We? Who's "we"?

Re:We need more (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599491)

I've been saying that since day one. Get tough as nails about illegal immigration, but otherwise give visas to anyone who has a job lined up, valid as long as they are employed.

And then you'll start seeing everyone's hypocrisy rising to the surface! The "pro-immigration" crowd is okay with immigration as long as it's poor Mexicans wanting the jobs "no one else wants", but they'll scream bloody murder when it's middle class Indians after *their* jobs.

Re:We need more (2, Interesting)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599585)

What the heck is wrong with the idea that Americans can be doing American jobs?

Sure, many employers would rather hire someone that needs permission to change jobs and can pay them something less than someone born in the USA. Why do we want to give them that privilege?

This has nothing to do with illegal immigration. The illegals are being exploited in the US almost as much (but not quite) as they were exploited and abused in their home country. But given that the reward of working in the US is so much higher than any compensation possible in their home country, the risk of dying to get here is perfectly acceptable. It is very difficult to combat that. Maybe in 100 years the economy in Central America might be better so the differential would be so much less that it wouldn't be practical for people to go to the US. But these economies are so rife with corruption and graft that it would take a miracle for such a transformation to occur. So it isn't going to be soon.

Throwing open the borders isn't a solution, it is just a suicide pact. All that does is transform the culture of the US into being another corrupt, graft-driven Central American country.

Re:We need more (1)

Raptoer (984438) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599841)

I agree(in a way)
The only true solution to illegal aliens from central America sneaking into US is to make the central Americas better, so that they do not need to illegally immigrate.

if you deport them they will come back.
if you put up a wall then its bad PR
if you go on a giant manhunt to get rid of every illegal alien and every person that helps or hires them then you are just asking for trouble, like witch hunt type thing.
there are 2 good solutions (both needing to be implemented at the same time) increase the number of visas so that people will actually try to get one, rather than just ignoring it, and making it so that they have less of a reason to immigrate.

Japan, china and western Europe were annihilated during ww2, and yet with American help (mostly loans) they came back to be major powers, so why cant we fix Central America?

America has always been the refuge for people needing relief from economic or political conditions. All the way back to the colonies, and more importantly the Irish and German immigrations in the 1800's and the immigrations from eastern Europe past the 1850's.

Re:We need more (2, Insightful)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599853)

If there were Americans to fill these spots, I wouldn't doubt that they'd be filled by Americans. It's a far cry from "throwing open the borders" (which I would imagine would apply more to unskilled jobs than skilled jobs anyway)

The H-1B process is so costly, time-consuming, and unreliable that an employer would be insane not to.

Instead, in effect, you end up with a talent-shortage. Americans are still out of a job, and companies are unable to maintain an edge in order to stay competitive in the international market. It's not like H-1B workers tend to live in poverty or get paid less than Americans either. Given that we're LOSING skilled workers to emigration, wouldn't it make sense to let more back in to fill the void?

If we can't fill our jobs with our own people, then there is something seriously wrong with our education system that needs to be addressed immediately. Basic economics indicates that opening the job market up to competition would be the fastest and most effective way to make this happen.

Re:We need more (4, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599989)

If there were Americans to fill these spots, I wouldn't doubt that they'd be filled by Americans.
In a free market, if demand increases while supply remains constant, than prices will rise. Yet we've seen near static wage levels in the computer industry since the end of the dot-bomb years. This empirical evidence shows that there are plenty of Americans available to fill these spots.

If we can't fill our jobs with our own people, then there is something seriously wrong with our education system that needs to be addressed immediately. Basic economics indicates that opening the job market up to competition would be the fastest and most effective way to make this happen.
No, there is nothing terribly wrong with our education system. It is the incentive system that has something seriously wrong with it. The guys going into college know that the job market for computer engineers sucks, so they've been studying other disciplines, enrollment in computer science courses is at record lows [techtarget.com] all across the country but general college enrollment is climbing. [ed.gov]

Make it an attractive career, not one where the suits take advantage of the geeks, and you'll see plenty of increased interest. But if the industry continues to undercut its current people, they will eventually find themselves in a situation where they really do need tons of H1Bs for their talent and not for their effect on wages. Or they'll find that other countries need these guys more than the US does because we've lost our edge.

Re:We need more (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18600107)

"Make it an attractive career, not one where the suits take advantage of the geeks, "

As a geek, realize that you can put on a suit an nobody will be able to tell you apart from the suit-only people. The reverse is not true.

Re:We need more (2, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599881)

Throwing open the borders isn't a solution, it is just a suicide pact. All that does is transform the culture of the US into being another corrupt, graft-driven Central American country.
You're going to have to do better than just assert that if you want people to believe you, because it makes it sound like you are either a racist who thinks that the culture of central america is inherently dishonest, or you are a poor economist who thinks that open borders will lead to massive depression such that the majority of the people in the US are unable to earn a living wage and must resort to abuse of power to supplement their income.

Re:We need more (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599667)

"While millions of unskilled illegals flood our borders every year, stressing our social safety net, the people we want in this country can't get in"

Given that few Americans are interested in the kind of unskilled work illegals do and there's no shortage of unemployed engineers and programmers who are US citizens and willing to work, I'd say we need the unskilled a lot more than the skilled.

".. fewer unskilled workers who end up with a free ride at taxpayer's--mine and your--expense."

What "free ride" are you referring to?

Re:We need more (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599771)

Given that few Americans are interested in the kind of unskilled work illegals do

Americans would be interest in those jobs if they paid more. Problem is that since employers can just pay a bunch of illegals peanuts and get away with it then the job becomes very undesireable to Americans.

Re:We need more (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599931)

"Free ride" clarification:
"Free" because the their salary is minimal, so almost no taxes are withdrawn. Instead, you and me (and not the undocumented aliens or their employers) pay for all of the following:

-Free schools.
-Free healthcare (at emergency rooms).
-Free prizons.
-If they have kids, in some states, free food stamps/baby formula for the kids, free daycare, etc.
-All the other govt. functions or those subsidized by taxes: CDC, rural telephony, internet, NASA, Defence, gasoline, etc. etc.

Again, we are subsidizing the employers that chose to exploit these poor people earning slave-like wages. Frankly, the main issue here is not about illegal immigration, but TAX EVASION/FRAUD by the illegal employers! I would bet we'd fix the whole mess pretty fast if we went instead after the employers (with all the consequences, including the pound-in-the-ass jailtime for the executives).

Re:We need more (1)

kevin lyda (4803) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599817)

Actually, illegal immigrants contribute more than they consume.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.


(source [latinbayarea.com] )

Re:We need more (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599965)

What are you saying? Those poor illegals that you mention pick your crops, clean your office buildings, build the building, and do all the work that Citizens are not willing to do.

Are you suggesting that we hire more H1-B workers to perform these menial tasks?

free ride at taxpayer's--mine and your--expense.

Free? ... Somehow I doubt we'll see you picking crops 12 hours a day.

Re:We need more (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18600091)

This is by design. Many powerful business lobbies want immigration illegal, but poorly enforced. This creates a large pool of unskilled labor that has no recourse to law over sub-minimum-wage payment, no payment at all, shoddy and unsafe work environments, and every other corner-cutting measure you can think of. (Thus driving down cost of labor in those markets, as well a having a chilling effect on related markets.)

  Without the free ride for crooked businesses that illegal immigrants provide, those unskilled jobs that "no-one wants to do" would pay well enough that people would want to do them.
  This would have an impact on the cost of certain items, though -- while, for example, the big agribusiness cartels could afford to pay minimum wage or higher, the fact is that they're currently quite happy to pocket the difference, and "passing the cost along" is an All-American tradition.
  It's just that with the present system they can pass it along to the taxpayer whether he likes it or not, further insulating them from market forces that would punish them if they passed it along to the consumer.
  Heh. My captcha is "unions." Freaky weird.

Open offices in Canada! (5, Interesting)

cperciva (102828) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599319)

There's a simple solution to the H-1B visa problem: Open offices in Canada, where a skilled worker who can speak English and has a job offer is practically guaranteed a visa. Vancouver in the same time zone as Silicon Valley, only a 2 hour flight away, and has a lower cost of living than any large city on the US west coast. Add to that two great universities, a moderate climate, and some of the best skiing in the world, in addition to all the usual amenities of a large city, and it's no surprise that Vancouver is routinely rated as one of the best places to live in the world. What are all [amazon.com] you [yahoo.com] guys [google.com] waiting for?

(This post brought to you by I-want-a-job-and-don't-want-to-move-to-California. )

Re:Open offices in Canada! (1)

loconet (415875) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599387)

"Open offices in Canada, where a skilled worker who can speak English and has a job offer is practically guaranteed a visa."

Guaranteed a visa "maybe", but not a job related to their profession. Like many others in Canada, I've had my share of chats with PhDs driving cabs.

Re:Open offices in Canada! (2, Insightful)

cperciva (102828) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599747)

"Open offices in Canada, where a skilled worker who can speak English and has a job offer is practically guaranteed a visa."

Guaranteed a visa "maybe", but not a job related to their profession. Like many others in Canada, I've had my share of chats with PhDs driving cabs.


If you have a job offer related to your profession, then you are indeed guaranteed a job related to your profession. If you come to Canada on the basis of a job offer for a job which you don't want, well, you get what you deserve.

There are absolutely highly skilled immigrants who are not able to get jobs which utilize their skills; but they are generally those who entered Canada as refugees or were sponsored by family members, not those who entered the country with a job offer.

Re:Open offices in Canada! (1)

JimBobJoe (2758) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599517)

a job offer is practically guaranteed a visa

Which is not strictly speaking untrue, but Canada's immigration system is notorious for being slow [bcchamber.org] .

Re:Open offices in Canada! (1)

scott_karana (841914) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599633)

Vancouver's got the second highest cost of living in Canada, behind Toronto. If it's cheaper than the States, I feel sorry for you.

Re:Open offices in Canada! (1)

nermaljcat (895576) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599647)

A colleague of mine is going to do this. He is not eligible for a US visa because he doesn't have a degree. So he'll just stay in Canada operating as a separate company. Charging a US company for services, paying Canadian taxes, buying Canadian consumables...

Unfortunately, the US immigration policy does not account for outsourcing. Rejecting skilled workers (more often than not) has a negative impact on the US economy.

Re:Open offices in Canada! (1)

kevin lyda (4803) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599743)

Google has offices in Toronto and Montreal.

Re:Open offices in Canada! (1)

cperciva (102828) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599811)

Google has offices in Toronto and Montreal.

And in Waterloo, if you happen to be a wireless developer (gee, I wonder why Google is hiring wireless developers in RIM's home town?). But judging by the jobs on offer, it seems like Google's Canadian offices are small and mostly sales and marketing, not anything really technical or related to Google's core operations.

Re:Open offices in Canada! (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599851)

There's a simple solution to the H-1B visa problem:

What "problem"? There is no problem, only companies who want to pay C wages for A workers (or D wages for C workers). Microsoft, one of the biggest visa lobbyists, is also one of the pickiest. Coincidence? I think not.

Open offices in Canada, where a skilled worker who can speak English and has a job offer is practically guaranteed a visa.

Why would Canadians want to work in the US when the wage differences are negligable? Sure, there might be a few, but 3rd world workers really want the big cost-of-living differential.
       

So this has become another green card lottery? (0)

line-bundle (235965) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599337)

How is this visa now different from the green card lottery? This has made my job searching really difficult in the US. No company wants to hire me because they cannot guarantee me the job even if I qualify.

On a related note: Did you know (according to my lawyer) that the cap does not apply to Indians and Chinese? This is another reason companies would rather hire from those two countries. My guess is that the US govt is trying to steal China and India's intellectual capital.

Re:So this has become another green card lottery? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599389)

The quota doesn't apply only to singapore and chile. India and China are part of the quota, just as any other country.

Re:So this has become another green card lottery? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599531)

Quota applies to Singapore and Chile also, just that some 6000 odd are reserved for them.

Re:So this has become another green card lottery? (1)

nermaljcat (895576) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599665)

Doesn't apply to Australia either. But technically the Australian visa is an E3 (just another kind of H-1B).

Re:So this has become another green card lottery? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599903)

Perhaps because both China and India have a huge population? In fact, if anything, Chinese and Indians are facing more stringent caps than people from other countries. Take a look here: http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulleti n_3169.html [state.gov] Pay particular attention to Employment-Based (2nd) catagory, in which most Chinese and Indians fall into. So for typically H1B Chinese/Indians, it will take 3-4 years to get their green cards, if they got lucky!

Re:So this has become another green card lottery? (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599909)

My guess is that the US govt is trying to steal China and India's intellectual capital.

It's that Duck & Lentil Curry recipe they're after. That's where the real profits are.
         

Re:So this has become another green card lottery? (5, Informative)

TeckWrek (220789) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599963)

As an H1B holding Indian working in the US, I can tell you for a fact that the assertion you make (really your lawyer) is completely and utterly false. The cap applies to the entire world. There are other visa types that you can come to the US under, but if its the H1B you are interested in, the cap applies.

If your lawyer doesn't know this or is feeding you misinformation for whatever reason, you should look into taking your business elsewhere.

Re:So this has become another green card lottery? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18600013)

Hope you're not paying too much for your lawyer.

Re:So this has become another green card lottery? (2, Informative)

locus_standi (631116) | more than 7 years ago | (#18600071)

I know for a fact that the cap _does_ apply to Indians and Chinese. Your lawyer is either incompetent or he is misleading you for whatever reason.

What is a degree worth? (0, Redundant)

adambha (1048538) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599341)

...can be issued for foreigners with batchelor's degrees
Apparently a bachelor's degree is not enough training to use spell check.

Re:What is a degree worth? (1)

illegalcortex (1007791) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599369)

You're a little late to the party, Sherlock. I'm not sure which is worse, the misspelling or you missing the fact that the fourth and fifth posts already pointed that out.

randomly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18599373)

Come on... Do most countries do it that way?

Re:randomly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18600039)

No, most countries protect their citizens and workers rather than artificially reducing the demand (and therefor the compensation paid) for people in their field by importing them.

Imagine if you could buy your milk from anywhere in the world, undercutting local farmers who want $4/gal for milk, by getting it from some farmer in a part of the world where his entire income is $4/week.

Spelling Nazi (0, Redundant)

sheldon (2322) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599443)

65,000 H1-B visas can be issued for foreigners with batchelor's degrees.


Perhaps /. should hire an H1-B visa applicant to help spell check?

Apparently, they're more qualified than some of the natives.

speling errors? wheeere? (1)

freaker_TuC (7632) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599763)

Never seen a Bitchalor before ? ;)

Hope you don't make (too many) errors, getting people nagging on your back like that, it'd be a shame for living not?
And yes, there may be errors in this reply, since I'm not native English speaking and I'm human so I'm supposed to make errors...

Why not just auction them? (1, Redundant)

Animats (122034) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599503)

Put them on eBay, a new batch every week, and make the Government some money. Then we'd find out what the real demand is.

Re:Why not just auction them? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18600067)

This would miss the whole point of H1-B: addressing a temporary shortage of skilled workers.

Instead of going to startups and spur-of-the-moment innovation projects, these visas would go to the big companies like Microsoft, IBM, and Google...

basically to the guys that never have any real difficulty hiring since they can (and do) get anyone to switch over by doubling their current salary or whatnot.

Your auction idea would royally screw the little guy that cannot outbid Microsoft (not that they aren't already screwed by having to wait one year for new visas since the visa cap for FY08 was reached in one day. How many startups can tell to their employee "we can't hire you right now but please sit and wait for one year")

E-3 Visa - Something for the Aussies (1)

Fex303 (557896) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599639)

Just thought I'd mention the E-3 visa [wikipedia.org] for any Australians that happen to be reading this and want to work in the US. It's a handy little visa specifically for Aussies who can find work in a 'specialty occupation' (jobs which require a degree) in America.

There's practically no demand for them at the moment which makes it much easier to get them, since they'll never use up the maximum allotment per year (10,500). The application process is a pain in the ass (I'm here on one), but I imagine that's the case with all visas. If you're interested, I found this FAQ [advance.org] rather helpful.

For the record, this came out of the recent FTA between the USA and Australia. So at least we got something of it.

Re:E-3 Visa - Something for the Aussies (1)

nermaljcat (895576) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599705)

The E-3 visa is great. And your spouse can also work (even in a non-specialty occupation).

It is even better than the TN visa for Canadians. If only it applied to non-Australians without a degree working in specialty occupations... :-D

Re:E-3 Visa - Something for the Aussies (1)

Lewisham (239493) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599757)

You don't happen to know of an equivalent for UK citizens do you? It seems that I'm not eligible for the green card lottery, and I haven't found a UK-specific visa like the E-3 for Aussies.

Re:E-3 Visa - Something for the Aussies (1)

nermaljcat (895576) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599837)

I'm not sure if there is a special UK visa. I think it is just the H-1B.

65000 is far too many visas (1)

rwwyatt (963545) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599689)

The requirement for a degree in any CS profession is artificial. My degree is in Chemistry, and yet I work as a software engineer. My job isn't especially hard, and certainly two trained monkeys could do it.

Re:65000 is far too many visas (0, Troll)

mochan_s (536939) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599839)

God I hate programmers who have switched from other disciplines. They friggin act as if they created a masterpiece when a crap script barely does something.

There should be some sort of limit on people like those in the computer field.

Re:65000 is far too many visas (1)

rickytickytavi (1083923) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599863)

Your statement is not true. Individuals like you who gets these jobs are the reason so many softwares are hacked into. You think that coding is just putting a bunch of statements together without regard to design. Which is why companies are seeking visa candidates cause they can actual develop organized code however, people like you aren't really getting the job done. then tne rest of them can't do the math (which is why you got the job) to get the computer science degree. It would be just as easy to get a degree in chemistry then become a software engineer.

Re:65000 is far too many visas (2, Insightful)

Jahz (831343) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599877)

The requirement for a degree in any CS profession is artificial. My degree is in Chemistry, and yet I work as a software engineer.
My job isn't especially hard, and certainly two trained monkeys could do it.
And I'm sure that if I practiced enough and studied enough text books, I could work as a crappy chemist too. What's your point? A CS degree requirement is not artificial. There is a good deal of non-trivial theory that a degree holder is expected to have a good handle on. Sure, its possible to script and write moderately complex programs without take Theory of Computation, Algorithms, OO Design, Programming languages, etc. Perhaps you don't need a grasp of graph theory or an understanding of why P=NP is important. However, when you get into anything sufficiently complicated, I believe a well-trained CS major will have a very strong advantage over you. But then again you're admittedly doing work that "a monkey" could do (boring), so it isn't anything a respected programmer would want to touch.

In all the jobs I have had, I learned new skills, languages and methodologies. That is one of the benefits of working in a leading-edge field. Of course its possible to jump right in learn "how to program", but I contest that doing so will result in a shaky foundation, at best. My education continues at work, it didn't start there. If you find the *right employer*, most of your work will be challenging, and occasionally rewarding. I'm sorry that you chose the wrong major for yourself.

Time to change visa system (1)

iamacat (583406) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599809)

The idea that visas are allocated to help big companies recruit cheap workforce is ridiculous for many reasons, including the fact that government should help (as in maintain opportunities to succeed) individuals rather than corporations. Let companies work with local universities instead. On the flip side of the coin, a job is the least of the reasons most people (including me) come to US. Rather, it's a milder form of political asylum. Maybe you will not be killed for your beliefs, race or personality traits, but your government or countrymen are sure going to make your life miserable. Think of widows in India, second children in China or people who dislike killing other people (fight in Chechnya war) in Russia. If such individuals lose their jobs even for a month while on H-1, they get kicked out of the country where they discovered value of freedom, bought a house, have a girlfriend...

A partial solution would be simply to have a longer time to find another job. I guess a country can afford only so many unemployed people or new immigrants in general at a time. A better long term solution would be to create an international agency that helps people resettle in some country - not necessarily US - where they will not be killed or harassed. In any case, basing visa quote on what Microsoft says it needs seems ridiculous.

The DHS says these numbers are too low (3, Informative)

btarval (874919) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599843)

This H1-B Visa issue limit is pretty much of a scam. Cisco for one uses tons of L1-B's from Wipro to by-pass this restriction regularly. I imagine that others do too.

Add to this the fact that there's really no effective enforcement going on, this "limit filled in one day" just reeks of political fodder to push for more Visas.

Surprisingly, there are indeed some actual real numbers published on the number of H1-B admissions into the U.S., from the Department of Homeland Security. These numbers appear to confirm that there are a lot more H1-B's entering the country than the Visa limit would suggest.

The DHS document (The 2005 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics) is at: http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/year book/2005/OIS_2005_Yearbook.pdf [dhs.gov]

I'm quoting the following from a discussion on dice.com at: http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=49 2&tstart=15 [dice.com]

"Temporary workers and Trainees:" Specialty Occupations(H-1B):

YEAR - H-1B visas Admitted
1996 - 144,458
1997 - 240,947
1998 - 302,421
1999 - 355,065
2001 - 384,191
2002 - 370,490
2003 - 360,498
2004 - 386,821

There are a number of other excellent quotes on the above thread on Dice. It's well worth reading.

Re:The DHS says these numbers are too low (1)

transonic_shock (1024205) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599959)

Those are not new H1bs. Thosee numbers include reapplications/renewals that H1bs have to do after first 3 years and then every year at the end of six years while their green cards are being processed. Plus you have to figure in all the post-docs/professors/research staff being hired by universities.

Re:The DHS says these numbers are too low (2, Interesting)

btarval (874919) | more than 7 years ago | (#18600079)

The point remains that people are being mislead by the common suggestion that there's a limit of 65,000 H1-B's in the U.S.. Indeed, you mentioned some of the loopholes used to by-pass it. And there are many other loopholes, such as the L1-B's, which adds even more.

These numbers are staggering; and it's no wonder why new C.S. students find it discouraging to enter the field in the U.S..

It's also interesting that the last number available in the DHS publication is also strikingly close to the number of 400,000 that Bill Gates was pushing for recently (after his original proposal of limiting the restrictions).

Re:The DHS says these numbers are too low (3, Insightful)

TeckWrek (220789) | more than 7 years ago | (#18600037)

The answer you are looking for is in the DHS document that you linked to. The table 26 on page 64 (where you picked the yearly number from) specifies in the header 'Non Immigrant Admissions (I-94 only)....'. The H1B visa has a maximum validity of 6 years. New visas are issued every year, but the ones issued in previous years (up till last 6) are still valid. All those people can go in and out of the country. Each time they do so, they are issued a new I-94. As a keen eye and some basic analysis will prove to you, the numbers increase every year, as they are cumulative for the last 6. Nothing more sinister here than the lack of understanding of the numbers. You know.. lies, damn lies and statistics.

Way out.. (2, Interesting)

univgeek (442857) | more than 7 years ago | (#18599907)

Pick the H1B candidates according to salary. The people with the highest salaries get H1Bs first. The market will ensure that H1B's go to the candidates most in demand. Spread the cap over every month, with a backlog. This way, companies know the minimum that has to be paid as salary to get a H1B employee.

Also IMO, a lot of this demand is drive by the Indian IT companies - TCS, Infy, Wipro, etc. They have HR teams who apply for as many of their employees as might be required to go onsite in the next year. And since a normal company can't usually afford to apply for, and hire, a person 5 months ahead of his possible entry into the US, the Indian IT companies are making hay.

There are also students who are on their OPT who can apply for a H1B and work on their OPT until they get their H1Bs. These two'd probably be the biggest sets of applicants.

This leaves a lot of companies in the US which might like to bring someone in on a H1 in an impossible situation.

I'm an Indian, in India, and not going for a H1 any time soon. But I've seen a lot of my friends having problems because of H1. And the visa situation and general atmosphere after 9/11 was partially what made me come back after my MS.

Thank god for war visas (1)

Balial (39889) | more than 7 years ago | (#18600043)

I'm moving to the US in a few weeks from Australia to work. As an Aussie, we have a special class of "E-3" visa which is for Australia only and is currently always under-subscribed. They're also easier to get than an H1 visa.

For some reason we got this special visa class right around the time we went to war with the US. What a co-incidence.

If you're an Aussie and you want to work in the US, now's the time to try. No waiting another year until the next round of H1s when you might get rejected.

"Visa Cap"? (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 7 years ago | (#18600059)

Is a "Visa Cap" that tin-foil hat [wikipedia.org] for those of us paranoid of free trade? After the rotton 2001-2003 IT season, I think I own 3.
       

OUTSOURCE!!! (0)

Baldrson (78598) | more than 7 years ago | (#18600075)

I challenge the companies who are buying politicians to cease corrupting the US's political process and OUTSOURCE.

You are convincing our politicians that you just have to have all this cheap labor at your disposal and you will take your taxable activities elsewhere if they don't do as you demand, while, at the same time, donating generously to those politicians who spout this propaganda to their constituents who are wise to the idiocy in which you indulge.

OUTSOURCE.

Prove the lazy, greying, stupid, fat, US engineers (who just happened to invent all the critical technologies that everyone says they own now) are as worthless you say they are.

OUTSOURCE.

Please... put your businesses where you think the good engineers are.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>