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Talking CCTV to Scold Offenders in UK

samzenpus posted more than 7 years ago | from the you-are-hereby-fined-1-credit-for-violation-of-the-verbal-morality-code dept.

Privacy 486

linumax writes "The most monitored nation of the world is getting an interesting new service. According to a BBC News story, "Talking" CCTV cameras that tell off people dropping litter or committing anti-social behaviour are to be extended to 20 areas across England.They are already used in Middlesbrough where people seen misbehaving can be told to stop via a loudspeaker, controlled by control centre staff."

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Color me oh so shocked. (0, Troll)

Seumas (6865) | more than 7 years ago | (#18615985)

People who brush off slipper-slope arguments can read this and eat a dick. Oh, but I'm sure big brother would never do anything that wasn't for our own good, right?

Re:Color me oh so shocked. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616049)

"Please replace your penis in its carrier."

Ready for the Daily Jerks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18615999)

The blithe lack of concern by the British Public continually amazes me...

Re:Ready for the Daily Jerks? (5, Insightful)

Seumas (6865) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616085)

All you'd have to do in America to make this tolerable is connect it to preventing terrorists, child molesters or promoting baby jebus.

Re:Ready for the Daily Jerks? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616229)

Mod parent up.

Re:Ready for the Daily Jerks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616437)

I'm an American who doesn't see anything wrong with this regardless of what you "connect it to". I believe in privacy, and I believe in the 4th amendment, but this camera thing wouldn't violate either one. They're in public places, capturing public behavior.

Re:Ready for the Daily Jerks? (4, Interesting)

Seumas (6865) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616721)

Wow. You frighten me.

It's one thing to use "hey, it's in public" as an excuse for a lot of things, but it's another thing entirely to use it to justify eavesdropping from a remote location, videotaping people and even remotely telling them how to behave and not to be anti-social.

You might as well justify people getting upskirt material in public. What's the difference? How is it different if you use high tech equipment to listen in on people from eighty feet away and recording everything they do in public versus some crazy perv with mirrors on his shoes and a small video camera?

Why not stick video camers and audio capturing devices and loudspeakers on every lightpole and aim them directly into everyone's homes. After all, the cameras are in public places and if Joe Public could potentially see and listen to something from the road, what's the big deal about a video camera with 14x optical zoom and high quality devices that pick up audio from far away doing the same thing?

I for one love the idea of being monitored, watched and told how to behave by some minimum wage monkey in a remote location every second I am outside of my home. Yay!

Mod Parent "-1 Strawman" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616861)

Were you kidding, or do you really not understand the difference between "public" and "private"?

Re:Ready for the Daily Jerks? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616569)

All you have to do in Slashdot to make a flamebait post tolerable is bash the right people, especially that last one.

Re:Ready for the Daily Jerks? (4, Interesting)

McFadden (809368) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616317)

The blithe lack of concern by the British Public continually amazes me...
Actually, some of us are disgusted to the point where we've gone to live abroad because we can't stand the damn place any more. Out of my closest circle of friends whom you could count on two hands, 5 have now relocated (to California, New York, Australia(2) & New Zealand) at the last count. My younger sister is about to go to Switzerland, my parents live for 10 months of the year in Spain and I'm in Japan.

Anyone with any sense got out ages ago.

Re:Ready for the Daily Jerks? (1)

nihaopaul (782885) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616679)

i hear ya, i got out 10years ago.. parents live in Thailand, my youngest sister is also in Thailand, i'm in china (yes it is better than england) and my oldest sister is stuck in the NHS till she gets the experience she needs to leave.

did you tell your buddies that went to amerika, that leaving england for amerika is like going to wales? its all the same!

Re:Ready for the Daily Jerks? (2, Funny)

McFadden (809368) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616745)

leaving england for amerika is like going to wales?
I know what you mean. Bangor and San Jose are like two peas in a pod! (sorry couldn't resist)

Re:Ready for the Daily Jerks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616841)

Yep, I got out 30 years ago to live in Oz and my brother got out 5 years ago to live in the south of France. I've never been back and I don't want to.

23 years off? (4, Insightful)

lecithin (745575) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616019)

'Smith!' screamed the shrewish voice from the telescreen. '6079 Smith W.! Yes, you! Bend lower, please! You can do better than that. You're not trying. Lower, please! That's better, comrade. Now stand at ease, the whole squad, and watch me.'

A sudden hot sweat had broken out all over Winston's body. His face remained completely inscrutable. Never show dismay! Never show resentment! A single flicker of the eyes could give you away. He stood watching while the instructress raised her arms above her head and -- one could not say gracefully, but with remarkable neatness and efficiency -- bent over and tucked the first joint of her fingers under her toes.

ATTN: SWITCHEURS! (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616045)

If you don't know what Cmd-Shift-1 and Cmd-Shift-2 are for, GTFO.
If you think Firefox is a decent Mac application, GTFO.
If you're still looking for the "maximize" button, GTFO.
If the name "Clarus" means nothing to you, GTFO.

Bandwagon jumpers are not welcome among real Mac users [atspace.com] . Keep your filthy PC fingers to yourself.

Re:ATTN: SWITCHEURS! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616249)

If you think owning a Mac is cool, GTFO.
If you think Steve jobs is hip and cool, GTFO.
If you think Macs aren't gay, GTFO.
If OsX is a real Unix operating system, GTFO.

Bandwagon riders are not welcome among hardcore computer users. Keep your lame and childish Mac comments to yourself.

Re:ATTN: SWITCHEURS! (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616343)

Real Mac users don't use Macs for the image. Real Mac users didn't just buy their Macs last week at Hot Topic. We've been here on the Mac platform since 1984 and believe me, we hate the recent influx of switcheurs almost as much as we don't give a damn about PC users.

Re:ATTN: SWITCHEURS! (0, Flamebait)

bytesex (112972) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616423)

Is that why you've been trolling /. for weeks and weeks now ? Can I ask you a kind question ? Will you please give it up ?

Re:ATTN: SWITCHEURS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616535)

That's Claris with an I, dumbass

Re:ATTN: SWITCHEURS! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616617)

You fucking fail. It's Clarus with a "u." Now GTFO.

Re:23 years off? (1)

lord_mike (567148) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616245)

Or you could have the Steve Martin version...

In January of 1984, there was a new show called, The New Show, which was kind of a ripoff of SNL... Steve Martin Guest starred, and they did a skit based on the 1984 novel with him as Winston.

In one scene, he was on a date with someone in the disco, and Big Brother on the telescreen was shouting out dance commands, including the one I'll never forget...

"Do the funky chicken!"

Too funny!

Thanks,

Mike

Tag this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616023)

demolitionmanreference

Dupe (1, Informative)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616035)

CCTV Cameras In UK Get Loudspeakers [slashdot.org]

September 17, 2006.

Re:Dupe (1, Redundant)

Seumas (6865) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616059)

Is Slashdot seriously your only source of actual news? The original was regarding CCTV getting loudspeakers in some areas. The current news as of this week is regarding them spreading the project further to another twenty regions.

Re:Dupe (3, Funny)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616091)

That's fantastic. Rehashed old news on another site gets the exact same writeup on Slashdot because the person who submitted the story doesn't read Slashdot and then it gets through the queue because the "editors" don't read Slashdot either.

Re:Dupe (1)

alphamugwump (918799) | more than 7 years ago | (#18617091)

I never read the news. I just read the tags. How else would I get first post? I mean, if it says "bigbrother", "privacy", "yes", and "no", I pretty much know that the article is about surveillance, and I know enough to copy-paste my post about citizen vigilantism and Heinlein. Likewise, if it says "mafiaa", "piracy", and "bittorrent", I need to post my bit about how copyright law should be repealed. Or, maybe it says "wiimote", "hardhack". Then I post about how all that stuff with the wiimote has already been done before and how everyone is just a bunch of nintendo fanboys. If it says "education", I write about homeschooling, and if it says "linux", I write about how ubuntu hosed my MBR.

Re:Dupe (1)

walruz (851125) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616089)

OMG! A dupe! Nothing new to be afraid of. OTOH, the "speaking CCTV cameras" ARE something to be afraid of, since they takes fascism to a disturbing new level.

Re:Dupe (5, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616115)

No.. what you should be afraid of is when people comply with the orders issued from these cameras instead of throwing rocks at them.

Re:Dupe (1)

dwater (72834) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616175)

not really. the story here is that they're expanding to other places now....

Re:Dupe (1)

bersl2 (689221) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616529)

OK, but neither the title nor the summary says this.

Re:Dupe (3, Funny)

dwater (72834) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616565)

yeah - not unusual for /.. ...but the linked story is from the bbc who tend to put some thought into what they put on their site (note the date 'Wednesday, 4 April 2007, 13:08 GMT 14:08 UK ') - just that fact alone should indicate it is actually a *new* news story and not an old one.

What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (-1, Troll)

sylvainsf (1020527) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616037)

Is that the people of the UK aren't citizens. They're property. Her majesty's property. For instance if you were to say to your friend, "I want you to hit me in the face as hard as you can." Your friend could be brought up on charges for damaging the property of the crown. So when it comes to being videotaped against your will, it's not really your will, is it?

Re:What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (3, Insightful)

maxume (22995) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616125)

Whatever. The actual day to day situation is a lot more important than the legal fiction that is used to support it(Or do you think that the U.S. Constitution has Harry Potter magic power and will protect us against those that would defile it?).

Re:What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (3, Insightful)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616739)

Or do you think that the U.S. Constitution has Harry Potter magic power
That is precisely why the ACLU exists.

Re:What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (2, Funny)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 7 years ago | (#18617125)

oh, so you think the ACLU has magic Harry Potter power.

Re:What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (4, Interesting)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616449)

Heh. As an Australian I was particularly surprised to discover that I can be arrested for "brawling" in public in the UK even if the person I'm fighting has given me his consent. In Australia, the law is clear, if someone hits you, you can hit them back or you can have them arrested for assault, but not both. If someone invites you to hit them, "go on then, hit me!", you are free to do so. I believe this is the case in the US too. I don't really know.

What's more strange, I found, was that I never got into a fight in all my adult life until I went to the UK. There I got into a bunch of them. One caused by annoying people who wouldn't turn down their music while I was trying to sleep. (I politely asked them to turn down their music, one of them hit me). One caused by men at McDonalds rudely describing a female patron. (I politely asked them to watch their language, one of them hit me). One which I started after listening to a white guy call a guy I knew "niger" a bunch of times. My friend didn't want to get in trouble with the nearby security people.. but where I come from, that kind of talk earns you a broken nose.

Of course, a bunch of you reading this probably think this is terribly uncouth and that I am clearly an anti-social person. Call me Quentin Tarantino if you like, but I think there's a place for violence in our society.. it's a regulating force which every person has the power to exercise. Just look at how impolite some forums without violence can be.

Re:What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (1)

martinX (672498) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616551)

I reckon you could be charged with affray.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ ca190082/s93c.html [austlii.edu.au]

Re:What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18617003)

(4) No person of reasonable firmness need actually be, or be likely to be, present at the scene.

Firmness? Does that mean that us jellybeans on Slashdot can't actually be charged with affray? :)

Re:What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (2, Informative)

c_forq (924234) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616785)

IANAL, but in the US you in pretty much all cases you are capable of responding with equal force (if I person punches you, you can punch them, however you can't nail them in the face with a hammer). In cases where there is a reasonable threat to your life you can respond with greater force, even to the point of maiming or death. What a reasonable threat is varies state to state, as I understand it. I know in some places they have upheld use of firearms against trespassers, and I've also heard in Texas firearms are allowed against someone defacing or vandalizing your property (though the way I've heard the Texas law is if you yell or warn the person and they stop their vandalism then shoot them it is considered retribution and you are open to criminal charges - so it is better to shoot first and ask questions later). My knowledge the Texas law is hearsay, and very well could be false, but from the time I've spent in Texas it wouldn't surprise me if it were true.

Re:What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616937)

Yeah yeah. That's all well and good, but if you start biffing on in public can the police drag you away in chains?

Re:What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (2, Interesting)

finity (535067) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616875)

Way to be a man and have some balls.
That is, assuming you are a man. If not, just consider that a compliment.

Re:What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616459)

This has to be the most stupid and ill-informed comment I've read on /. for a LONG time.

Re:What a lot of Americans don't realize.. (2, Interesting)

SQL Error (16383) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616717)

This has to be the most stupid and ill-informed comment I've read on /. for a LONG time.
You can't have been reading much lately. Yes, it's complete nonsense, but that accounts for a pretty high percentage of posts even when you're browsing at +5.

To the first person... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616041)

who, while wearing bag over their head, publicly masturbates to one of the scolding cameras goes the contents of my Amazon Mechanical Turk account.

Re:To the first person... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616863)

How much does it cost to fly to the UK form the US. That's my price.

People of the UK: RISE UP!!! (0, Troll)

Ralph Spoilsport (673134) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616097)

Get off your asses and STOP THIS NONSENSE. (don't give me the "don't criticise us, yank") because, I'm not a yank! SERIOUSLY. STOP THIS NOW.

I recommend the following:

1. get rid of the crown. It's long over due. Join the post-medieval world.
2. GET A CONSTITUTION.
3. TAKE DOWN THE CAMERAS.

FITE DEM BACK!

RS

Re:People of the UK: RISE UP!!! (1)

Harmonious Botch (921977) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616163)

1. get rid of the crown. It's long over due. Join the post-medieval world.
2. GET A CONSTITUTION.
3. TAKE DOWN THE CAMERAS
While I agree with parent on the first two, I suggest leaving the cameras up, but make them netcams with no passwords so that anybody can see what is happening, not just the government. And get rid of the speakers.

Do like the French: Take the shotgun approach (2, Funny)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616637)

Over the last couple of years, French police have put up lots of speed cams ("radars fixes") on the motorways. Regularly, these have their glass shattered by a well aimed shotgun blast.

Way to go!

Re:People of the UK: RISE UP!!! (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#18617057)

get rid of the crown. It's long over due. Join the post-medieval world.

How will this help? It's not as though the Queen has any real power.

GET A CONSTITUTION.

We have one. How do you think we decide who the government is?

TAKE DOWN THE CAMERAS.

Uhm. Okay. How do you propose we get popular support for this?

Re:People of the UK: RISE UP!!! (1)

PeterBrett (780946) | more than 7 years ago | (#18617141)

1. get rid of the crown. It's long over due. Join the post-medieval world.
2. GET A CONSTITUTION.

Because that's done so well for you in the USA. Oh wait, the USA is only the second most monitored country in the world.

Really: what the hell does the system of government have to do with the existence of fascist CCTV cameras? The scum rises to the top in every system of government I'm aware of, whether democratic or otherwise.

Where did the UK go wrong??? (5, Insightful)

CPE1704TKS (995414) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616101)

1984 is/was taught in school so that kids would learn that things like that are bad, ie. a totalitarian system, government lies, etc. A big part of 1984 was how monitored people were, and one of the scariest moments for me was when the main character Smith had his own little secret corner of the room where none of the cameras could watch him, and he had his privacy albeit momentarily. The whole point was that this system was horrible!!!

Yet, somehow, this has morphed into a seemingly-large group of people believe that this is a GOOD thing. A doubleplus good thing. WTF went wrong??? Don't they realize they have become the EXACT thing that George Orwell was warning about??? What happened to the 60 years of knowledge that this book brought us about what life would be like living in a society like this?

Re:Where did the UK go wrong??? (4, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616265)

Maybe it's just inevitable.

To me the concept of people being free to do whatever they like so long as it doesn't prevent anyone else from doing the same is self evident. Unfortunately, I think the majority of people think the exact opposite: there is a list of things the majority of people believe we should not be allowed to do and there should be perfect enforcement of that list. The absolute tyranny of the majority of the minority is considered by most people to be the best form of government.

As such, the only arguments you'll see the mainstream make against perfect enforcement is the posibility of corruption or misuse.

Re:Where did the UK go wrong??? (2, Insightful)

SerpentMage (13390) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616705)

I think you have this inverted. It is not that the majority wants this, but a minority. Most governments are representational governments and thus authoritarian as the people who represent you are also authorities. When people become authorities they like to dictate terms because they think they know what you want.

In contrast Switzerland is a true tyranny of the majority and there are many many libertarians in this country that like their privacy. And privacy in Switzerland is part of the constitution (Article 13).

The problem in the UK is that nobody stands up and says, "enough is enough."

Re:Where did the UK go wrong??? (1)

edunbar93 (141167) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616887)

As such, the only arguments you'll see the mainstream make against perfect enforcement is the posibility of corruption or misuse.

Oh, you mean like how the camera monitors currently pay extra special attention to pretty girls, blacks, and muslims? Now the cameras can make them feel uncomfortable not just by following them, but can spew forth racial slurs and wolf-whistles.

Re:Where did the UK go wrong??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616899)

I would argue that freedom requires responsibility, and responsibility requires honesty. This makes honesty the root requirement of a free society.
Can you think of anything in society today that promotes honesty?
Is it any wonder that crap like this is happening?
The less responsible a society becomes the more security has to move in and replace once fought for with blood freedom.

A funny side note is the captcha word for this post is "tragedy"

Re:Where did the UK go wrong??? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18617173)

Yes, those people are known as authoratarians. Authoratarianism is a sickness. It's an arrested state of development that prevents the sufferer from
progressing to full adulthood where they understand their relationship to other human beings and their real responsibilities
in the world. In this state all reason is by appeal to authority, real or imaginary. It's based on unresolved fear of loss and vulnerability and leads to religious beliefs, superstition and sociopathy. It is possibly a conflicting basis at the root of schizophrenia.

Very few smart pychologists and psychiatrists have the balls to come right out and say this. I don't give a damn that it's a dangerous thing to say. The people who put up these cameras, people who equate surveillance with security are mentally ill. Those sheep who merely believe that they offer security and complacently go along with it are probably just a bit stupid and incapable of any critical analysis.

In fact the "yobs" who smash down the cameras and throw paint on them are the only sane and honorable players in the whole farce. At least
they have guts to take charge of their environment. And who can blame them for reacting to a state that treats them with contempt? That they
show contempt for such a society is as natural as the day is long. Why do so many apparently smart people just not get this?

The cameras are a there as a sign of weakness. Weakness of the state. Weakness of law and order. Weakness of morality and willpower. They demonstrate more clearly than anything that the police and society have lost control.

Why is it that 50 years ago there was less crime with no cameras? You won't find a person over the age of 40 in the UK who can answer that.
Because you won't find a person over the age of 40 in the UK who has a fucking clue. They are completely divorced from reality, unable to understand where this ridiculous social experiment is taking us and what the consequences are likely to be.

I'd hate to have stocks in the surveillance business when the tide finally turns.

Re:Where did the UK go wrong??? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616283)

Not that I support this, but to be fair all of this stuff is going on outside in public places. I hope people would fight against doing this on private property, but I honestly don't see the big deal if these cameras are pointing towards public areas. This is just my opinion, obviously, but I don't think a bunch of CCTV cameras pointing towards city streets and shopping centers is on the same level as the world of 1984.

Re:Where did the UK go wrong??? (5, Funny)

rocketman768 (838734) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616305)

Hey...hey...I got one:

In America, you scorn the television.
In England, television scorns YOU!

Re:Where did the UK go wrong??? (3, Insightful)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616393)

It's always for our own good, or so they say. In the US Bush had a lot of Americans convinced giving up civil rights was for their own good. Oddly enough it wasn't americans bombing the Trade Center. It was simply an excuse to take rights away. Britian is doing it for the people's own good but at what price? If the goal is to end all crime then I guess we lojack everyone and place cameras in every home and business. Good news/bad news, they'll catch a whole lot of "criminals" but the bad news is we'll all be guilty. They say ignorance of the law is no excuse but there are tens of thousands of laws on the books and even the police don't know them all. It's impossible to not break laws you aren't even aware exist. Some things are perfectly legal here in one state but are felonies in others. There are even laws in some states governing sexual behavior among consenting adults. There are obscure laws on the books no one is aware of. The point shouldn't be to prosecute every human possible but to maintain order and protect individuals. The government is supposed to protect individuals from each other but if Constitutional law is ignored who will protect the people from the government?

Re:Where did the UK go wrong??? (1)

chris_eineke (634570) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616541)

if Constitutional law is ignored who will protect the people from the government?
Eric S. Raymond: Open Source Superconfused and Gun Nut Inadequate.

Re:Where did the UK go wrong??? (1)

Vskye (9079) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616973)

You know, 1984 this was required reading back in the late 70's when I was in high school. Matter of fact, a lot of the things I was taught are pretty much ignored now days. (such as the holocaust) Personally, I think the British people have put WAY to much trust in their government. And before I get bashed here, I didn't vote for the current government we have in the US, and totally disagree with most of "their" policies. I don't know ANYthing about UK government politics/policies btw.

more like a call to arms (5, Interesting)

Chief Wongoller (1081431) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616153)

Unfortunatly, there has grown up a culture of yobbish behaviour amoung a small but significant minority of manily young people who, for whatever reason, feel the need to express their anti-social anti-establisment feelings at every opportunity. There is a TV program in the UK called "police Camera action" which is a little like America's 'worlds wildest police videos' (or whatever). This has led to an increace of car theft and speeding, wreckess driving etc. also the UK courts award "Anti-social behaviour" (ASBO) notices to yobs who wander the streets drunk or stoned carring out vandalism and other petty thefts. This has led to an increase in crime and the offenders wear these ASBOs as "badges of honour". The types of people whom the talking cameras are targeted at will react with a similar negativity. These yobs will deliberatly act anti-socially so that they can promp a response. Why is all this so? Well in the UK the law gives insufficient protection to the state and the law-abiding masses and too much to the criminals. Crazy eh?

Re:more like a call to arms (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616869)

Isn't wreckless driving a good thing?

Looks like they missed one (5, Funny)

psaunders (1069392) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616167)

1. Pedestrian is spotted leaving can on bench
2. Talking Camera: "Please fetch your can."
3. Talking Camera: "The bin is behind the phone box."
4. Talking Camera: "Thank you for using the bin."

5. Pedestrian comes back at 2am and beats Talking Camera to death with cricket bat, or other clubbing instrument of choice.

How about this one (2, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616319)

5. Pedestrian stops complaining about how filthy the beach is and why doesn't the goverment do anything about it.

Your argument sounds a lot like dog owners who complained about fines for letting their dogs crap on the sidewalk BUT also complained about crap on the sidewalk.

Is it really that hard to make sure your dog does NOT take a dump were everyone, including yourselve is walking? Is it that hard to drop your litter in a can?

You see, the problem for me, a middle aged white male, is that I see two choices. Talking camera's and security patrols (wich do not affect me) OR walking through areas littered with crap (affect the people who think the street is a garbage dump). Hmmm, what a choice to make eh. My convenience for your freedom to inconvenience me, yourselve and everyone else.

Sorry, you need to come up with a better example then the state repressing your freedom to litter.

Re:How about this one (1)

psaunders (1069392) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616383)

Your argument sounds a lot like dog owners who complained about fines for letting their dogs crap on the sidewalk BUT also complained about crap on the sidewalk.

Who's arguing? I am merely pointing out that someone who is told what to do by a camera will be likely to get angry and perhaps retaliate somehow. Much more likely than if told the same thing in person by a police officer. Perhaps I was too subtle.

Re:How about this one (1)

fredrated (639554) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616421)

If you hate litter so much you could do what I do when I walk my dogs. I carry a plastic bag for the poop, and fill it with the litter I encounter on the walk. Voila! No litter, no camaras, no whining about the mess. Take matters into your own hands mate, don't wate for the state to fix your problem.

Re:How about this one (1)

1lus10n (586635) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616539)

Or you could stop relying on the government. Pick up a history book, its literally chalk full of instances of the government/royalty/TPTB abusing things like this. What makes you think you can trust the people operating the cameras ? Whats to say that they dont steal your identity using the data they collect. Whats to say they dont start stalking people. You claim this wont affect you, but it will. The sad part is you wont realize it until its too late.

Re:How about this one (1)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616743)

5. Pedestrian stops complaining about how filthy the beach is and why doesn't the goverment do anything about it.
Do it like Germans: have a refundable tax on drink containers, which you get back when you bring back the empty bottle or tin to the shop. Result: no more empty beer bottles and tins along the German roads!

Re:How about this one (1)

alphamugwump (918799) | more than 7 years ago | (#18617159)

We've got that here in the US, but I don't know that it makes a difference. I think it has more to do with how socially acceptable it is to litter. That, or Americans are too rich and lazy to return the stuff :P

So when is the next step when.. (2, Insightful)

the_rajah (749499) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616169)

the loudspeakers are augmented, for the public good, with servo controlled sedative dart guns?

Re:So when is the next step when.. (2, Funny)

Patrik_AKA_RedX (624423) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616991)

Dart guns? Nah! You know those guns that shoot out a net? Now that would be so much cooler. And add a target laser. Oh, and make it a gattling gun type of gun. Just picture this:

Pedestrian litters.
Camera gives warning.
Pedestrian ignores camera.
-Sound of gattling gun reaching operation speed-
Camera give last warning.
Pedestrian starts to run away, fearing for his life.
Camera shoots net and captures pedestrian.

I can't wait to see the Youtube movies!

you gotta be clever to fight this - probably (0, Redundant)

no-body (127863) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616199)

Throw paintballs into the lense - wearing some disguise which can be changed quickly in a dead camera angle.

The cameras are probably high up and have a wide range.

Tough!

Monty Python anyone? (5, Funny)

KingKaneOfNod (583208) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616225)

This just reads like a Monty Python sketch to me (sympathies to those who live in the UK and will have to live the joke) ...

An old man walks up to a street corner, looks around, sees no-one. Ever so slowly he reaches into his jacket and pulls out a cigarette and lighter. He puts the ciggie in his mouth, holds the light up to it, and:

CAMERA: Oi! You there! Do you really want to do that?
OLD MAN: What?! Who's there?
CAMERA: Look up, and a couple of metres to the right.
OLD MAN looks up and faces the camera.
CAMERA: You know smoking's bad for you right?
OLD MAN: I just wanted one, and I can't have them at home because the wife gives me grief.
CAMERA: Just one??! Just one you say??! You can't have just one, because once you start, you're hooked!
OLD MAN: I know that, I got hooked a long time ago.
CAMERA: Well you can get yourself unhooked right now. I won't have your type stinking up my town.
OLD MAN: I beg your pardon? I live here!
CAMERA: Not if I can help it! Now clear off before I send out the coppers!
OLD MAN makes a rude gesture at the camera.
CAMERA: Right! That's it! You've done it now!
OLD MAN: Done what? I haven't even got to have my smoke yet!
CAMERA: Don't play innocent with me, we've got the whole thing recorded.
Police siren blares.
OLD MAN: You bastard! All I wanted was a smoke and you call the bloody cops?!
Police arrive, old man runs off.
CAMERA: He went that way! After him!
--
Not funny? If only it were just a bad joke.

Re:Monty Python anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616371)

OLD MAN (to POLICEMAN): Do you want to come home with me?
POLICEMAN: ... yeah, alright.

Re:Monty Python anyone? (1)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616813)

What I don't get is why anyone would obey a voice coming from a loudspeaker.

You ain't seen nothing yet (1)

patio11 (857072) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616237)

I work in a Japanese technology incubator, and one of our researchers has an image recognition program which can remove the human from this loop. The target market is convenience stores and the like, where the camera will watch everyone in the store and, if your movements look "shifty" (via comparison with a couple thousand tapes of people who were later determined to have shoplifted), the shelf will talk to you! Its like a loss-prevention Clippy! "Hello, it looks like you are trying to put that packet of razor blades in your pocket! Perhaps you meant to use the shopping basket, or would you like to speak to an employee?"

Re:You ain't seen nothing yet (1)

Joe U (443617) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616587)

My new form of shopping entertainment would be to trigger the voice non-stop, every time I picked something up, without, of course, shoplifing anything.

I'll work out the points system later. The bonus round will be pure fun.

demo man (2, Funny)

wolfgang_spangler (40539) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616299)

John Spartan, you are fined 10 credits for littering...

Why do people in Britain put up with this? (4, Insightful)

ip_freely_2000 (577249) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616301)

For once, I'd like to see news of a protest in Britain about all those friggin cameras.

Re:Why do people in Britain put up with this? (1)

chris_eineke (634570) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616523)

Are you silly? Do you want to end up on tape that recorded how you protest... -- oh.

Re:Why do people in Britain put up with this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616733)

There's no smoking gun. It like more and more guns are positioned everywhere in the country, but none of them has fired yet, i.e. the system has not yet been abused (as far as we know).

Because they're getting desperate? (5, Insightful)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616799)

From what I can tell, of the few people from Britain that I regularly talk to, is that they really don't care.

There is sort of an epidemic -- perceived or actual, I don't know, and it hardly matters -- of obnoxious, petty crime, mostly committed by youths, in many British cities. There's the whole "happy slapping" thing, but that's just really the tip of the iceberg, it's just a lot of vandalism, shoplifting, street crime, etc. It's the kind of thing that just really gets to people, because it directly degrades the quality of life when you walk around.

In some ways, I think it sort of mirrors feelings that people in the U.S. had back around 10-15 years ago, at the height of the violent crime wave in the inner cities, except in Britain it doesn't seem to really be violent crime. (In fact it seems to be the kind of shit that would probably get you shot by one of the more serious criminals here in America -- maybe we have some sort of natural selection in the ghettos here that keeps this stuff to a minimum? Or maybe everyone with the means to in the U.S. abandoned the inner cities so long ago that we just don't notice.)

But at any rate, the people who have influence -- mostly white, middle income and up -- aren't too bothered, because they're looking rather desperately for any way to knock the "yobs," "chavs," and other varieties of scum in line. There's a sort of (and again, this is just based on the people I've talked with) "well, nothing else has worked, so what the hell" attitude.

To be honest I can't really blame them. Here in the U.S., there were a lot of Generally Bad Ideas being tossed around back in the 90s before the crime wave crested and began to recede (and I don't think even now there's a clear consensus on why that happened -- some people, the authors of Freakonomics in particular, argue that it was actually the echo of Roe v. Wade from a generation earlier reducing the number of potential criminals; feel free to posit your own theory). If the tide hadn't turned when it did, we'd probably be looking at things like this all over the place right now.

Clarification (1)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616823)

A clarification on one sentence:

But at any rate, the people who have influence -- mostly white, middle income and up -- aren't too bothered by the cameras and other "innovative" policing techniques...

The way I had it written, made it ambiguous as to whether I was saying that people with influence weren't bothered by the crime or the cameras. I meant the cameras.

The people I know, who are all over-30, middle- or upper-middle-class whites with families, seem a whole lot more annoyed by the speed cameras (which there seem to be a TON of, although I question their effectiveness because all the locals seem to know exactly where they are) than the whole surveillance issue.

The root of the problem... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616303)

One of the biggest issues I have:
    Why are there so many people who don't know how to behave on their own? What are mothers teaching these days?

Adording Parents: Everything is their fault (2, Interesting)

BillGatesLoveChild (1046184) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616761)

I just had a story submission that answered this very question: "Narcissist Technology: Did Mamma Lie?"

Unfortunately it dribbled out of the Slashhot Firehose.
Fortunately you can still read about it elsewhere:

http://www.pbs.org/teachers/learning.now/2007/03/h as_myspace_contributed_to_gen_1.html [pbs.org]
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-esteem27fe b27,0,225486,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines [latimes.com]
http://www.statenews.com/op_article.phtml?pk=40058 [statenews.com]

I hope (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616351)

somebody farts into the mic at the "appropriate" times.

screaming cameras (2, Funny)

andy314159pi (787550) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616353)

One of the things that it screams at people is
"How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?"

King Arthur (1)

AnyThingButWindows (939158) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616355)

Arthur: Old Woman!

The peasant turns around, revealing that he is in fact a man.

Man: Man!
Arthur: Man, sorry.... What knight lives in that castle over there?
Man: I'm thirty-seven!
Arthur: (suprised) What?
Man: I'm thirty-seven! I'm not old--
Arthur: Well I can't just call you "man"...
Man: Well you could say "Dennis"--
Arthur: I didn't know you were called Dennis!
Man: Well, you didn't bother to find out, did you?!
Arthur: I did say sorry about the "old woman", but from behind, you looked--
Man: Well I object to your...you automatically treat me like an inferior!
Arthur: Well I *am* king...
Man: Oh, king, eh, very nice. And 'ow'd you get that, eh?
        (he reaches his destination and stops, dropping the cart)
        By exploiting the workers! By 'angin' on to outdated imperialist dogma
        which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society.
        If there's ever going to be any progress,--
Woman: Dennis! There's some lovely filth down 'ere!
        (noticing Arthur) Oh! 'Ow'd'ja do?
Arthur: How do you do, good lady. I am Arthur, king of the Britons. Whose
        castle is that?
Woman: King of the 'oo?
Arthur: King of the Britons.
Woman: 'Oo are the Britons?
Arthur: Well we all are! We are all Britons! And I am your king.
Woman: I didn't know we 'ad a king! I thought we were autonomous collective.
Author: (mad) You're fooling yourself! We're living in a dictatorship!

Re: Obligatory "Real Genius" quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616687)

How long until these English loudspeakers say:

"And from now on, stop playing with yourself."

Winston Smith! Touch your toes! (-1, Redundant)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616515)

'Smith!' screamed the shrewish voice from the telescreen. '6079 Smith W.! Yes, you! Bend lower, please! You can do better than that. You're not trying. Lower, please! That's better, comrade. Now stand at ease, the whole squad, and watch me.'

A sudden hot sweat had broken out all over Winston's body. His face remained completely inscrutable. Never show dismay! Never show resentment! A single flicker of the eyes could give you away. He stood watching while the instructress raised her arms above her head and -- one could not say gracefully, but with remarkable neatness and efficiency -- bent over and tucked the first joint of her fingers under her toes.

'There, comrades! That's how I want to see you doing it. Watch me again. I'm thirty-nine and I've had four children. Now look.' She bent over again. 'You see my knees aren't bent. You can all do it if you want to,' she added as she straightened herself up. 'Anyone under forty-five is perfectly capable of touching his toes. We don't all have the privilege of fighting in the front line, but at least we can all keep fit. Remember our boys on the Malabar front! And the sailors in the Floating Fortresses! Just think what they have to put up with. Now try again. That's better, comrade, that's much better,' she added encouragingly as Winston, with a violent lunge, succeeded in touching his toes with knees unbent, for the first time in several years.

Obligatory Half-Life 2 (1)

Brian Cohen (1027542) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616559)

Metrocop: Pick up that can...

Well the (1)

Shaltenn (1031884) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616561)

Open and blatant defiance of the law is the only effective way to effect change in a government system that is otherwise completely capable and motivated to ignore the plight and desires of those whom they supposedly serve.

Oh Gawd Blimey, Guvnor! (1)

BillGatesLoveChild (1046184) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616645)

"CCTV cameras that tell off people dropping litter or committing anti-social behaviour are to be extended to 20 areas across England."

Will one of those be Buckingham Palace? "Oooi! Prince Harry! Put out that fatty!"
Follow a recent royal tradition "Pardon Guvnor! That lady most certainly is not your wife!"
Or "Horses *must* be housed in the stable! Oh sorry, 'Mam"

Realistically: One of the guards will leave the loudspeaker on:
"Cor Blimey! Check out the norks on that bird. Would love to get me some of that crumpet!"

Insert BUSH/US/NEOCON rant here.... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616749)

<moonbat>RANT GOES HERE</moonbat>

That should make it easier for all you haters.

This just in (1)

franksands (938435) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616777)

In the UK, the camera stops you!

In Soviet Russia.... (1)

ingo23 (848315) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616829)

... the cameras were added to the loudspeakers.

As an American living in the UK... (1)

kenblakely (768899) | more than 7 years ago | (#18616903)

...i'm fascinated by this place. They're all like supine weenies over here when it comes to speaking out - all except the yobs that is, which everyone is afraid of. There's discussions in the Parliament now about the dangers of 'lurching towards a surveillance society", but they were already in it long ago.

On the upside, there's hardly any cops on the streets or roads. I think I can count on one hand the number of patrol cars I've seen in the 8 months I've been living here...

Control centre staff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18616913)

Ideally the "control centre staff" would be outsourced to Bangalore, India. I'm sure unruly yobs would *love* being disciplined in Indian English :-)

When camera see dumb burglar comes in (1)

holywarrior21c (933929) | more than 7 years ago | (#18617011)

Dumb burglarhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=mim90zCi34Y/ [youtube.com] camera says nothing, while the camera is on rofl n lmao procedure... 1. WTF...!!?? 2. LMAO...!!! 3. GO TO #1 4. Kick ass on sandwich. 5. Alert security breach 6. Warn the trasspasser. 7. If (line4.taskhasran()==true) then B.K is gay. //In south Korea only old people use talking security cameras to scare burglars
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