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PSP To Refocus on Teen Market

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the finally-cracking-a-market dept.

Portables (Games) 98

Wired's Game|Life blog, and writer Chris Kohler, have the news that the PSP will be aiming at teen users in the near future. This from PSP senior product manager John Koller, who connected the recent system price cut to this new initiative. "Going forward, Sony will unveil the 'Dude, Get Your Own' campaign. The idea this year, says Koller, is to 'break out of the home cycle.' A significant amount of PSP users in that 13-17 group play the device at home. 'The teens that are doing this value the ability to utilize the portability,' Koller notes paradoxically. By portability, he clarifies, he means 'I can play it upstairs while my parents are watching the TV downstairs.'"

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Ummm... (1)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625503)

Wasn't the PSP already aimed at at teen users?

Re:Ummm... (5, Funny)

Conception (212279) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625583)

No, they were working on the Mexican Squirrel market for a while there.

Re:Ummm... (5, Funny)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625591)

It wasn't that much of a hit among the /. basement crowd. As the summary said, Sony is now focused on the teenagers upstairs who actually -- gasp! -- know what the yellow light in the big blue room is. Sad but true.

Re:Ummm... (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627693)

OMG. My first response was 'The what?'

I did eventually figure it out, though.

Re:Ummm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18625783)

Good to see the marketing idiocy at Sony is leaking into more of it's products. First the PS3 and now the PSP. I can't wait to see how they destroy Blu-Ray right when it's poised to actually "win" the format war.

Re:Ummm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18625819)

Yes, hence the word "Refocus"

Re:Ummm... (1)

earnest murderer (888716) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625823)

Wasn't the PSP already aimed at at teen users?

Naw... 20 somethings wanting to relive playing PS1 games they played 10 years ago.

Re:Ummm... (2, Interesting)

porcupine8 (816071) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625873)

If it wasn't, they failed even more miserably than I thought. The only person I know with a PSP is my 16-year-old brother, while I know several adults in the 20-30 age range (myself included) with DSes.

Re:Ummm... (1)

Ryunosuke (576755) | more than 7 years ago | (#18629089)

this is very true. in my area the only people I know with PSp's are the keeping up with the Jones' types who have to have the best/newest shiney thing out. This reads as "I know of about 5 people in 200 that even care about the PSP" which I find amusing. I'd buy one, if we get a rogue galaxy/ff type game on it, but then it was never marketed towards rpg players now was it?

Re:Ummm... (1)

NoodleSlayer (603762) | more than 7 years ago | (#18629527)

I knew a bunch of single employed twenty-somethings working in Silicon Valley that bought PSPs shortly after release, I myself was one. However like most of the people that I know that bought one, I indeed regret it. The game support is lack luster to non-existent and Sony is pretty hostile to their customer base as is.

Re:Ummm... (1)

neurosis101 (692250) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625897)

No, it was targetted at racists and people who propogate stereotypes.

(I'm sure you've seen the squirrels and the dust bunnies commercials)

Re:Ummm... (1)

shoptroll (544006) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627253)

Not to mention the billboard ads when they were announcing the white PSP...

Re:Ummm... (1)

LordVader717 (888547) | more than 7 years ago | (#18632653)

If you look back at the old interviews from 2004 when the PSP was unveiled, you'll probably find something like "DS is Babies, we're aiming the PSP at mature adults".
They done the same mistake again with the PS3, when the managers seemed to think that every PS2 gamer was as rich as themselves, so they outpriced their main costumer base (kids and teens)

Not a bad idea (0)

fistfullast33l (819270) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625519)

The fact that it's portable isn't exactly unique to the PSP, but I think one thing going forward with it will be the ability to link directly to the Playstation 3 using your PS3 and a wireless router (you no longer connect directly to the PS3, IIRC). So once they give you the ability to play the PS3 games on your PSP using the remote feature, you basically will have a portable PS3 at home. And it's probably likely they'll do this, given that the PS3 to PSP functionality is more like Terminal Services than actual emulation.

So now, you can play your PS3 on the same TV that your parents are watching TV or a movie. Or, in my case, if your fiance wants to watch Sex in the City reruns on TBS.

The downside is that the wireless connection kills your already low battery life because it takes so much bandwidth to transfer the pixels I assume, but because you're home you just need to plug the PSP into the wall.

nope (1)

PhoenixOne (674466) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625815)

For many reasons, you are not going to be able to use your PSP as a wireless display/controller for the PS3.

I fear you are stuck with watching Sex in the City (or buying a cheap TV to play your PS3 games on).

Re:Not a bad idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18625903)

Never going to happen. The PSP does have connectivity to the PS3 - that is used currently to buy content from over the PS3's store and push it to the PSP. Going forward, the PSP can and will likely be used as a control interface, much like the GBA is for the GameCube. However, thinking that you can play a PS3 game on your PSP is ridiculous. Even ignoring the fact that the PSP as a controller can't handle half of the PS3's inputs, it's likely technically impossible.

Re:Not a bad idea (1)

JordanL (886154) | more than 7 years ago | (#18626215)

As an owner of a DS, a PSP, a PS3 and a Wii I can tell you that one DEFINITELY reinforces the other. My PSP becames so much better with my PS3 and visa versa.

Re:Not a bad idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18628237)

Thank you for the extensive explanation of HOW teh PS3 supports the PSP experience. I remain unconvinced that $200 PSP + $600 PS3 + $1000 TV = pure and utter happiness. I prefer to be able to buy more games.

Quoth Ming the Merciless (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 7 years ago | (#18628503)

I remain unconvinced that $200 PSP + $600 PS3 + $1000 TV = pure and utter happiness.
Let's just say you'll be satisfied with less.

Re:Quoth Ming the Merciless (1)

SethraLavode (910814) | more than 7 years ago | (#18636457)

More satisfied for less, is perhaps more accurate.

Re:Quoth Ming the Merciless (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 7 years ago | (#18637787)

More satisfied for less, is perhaps more accurate.
That depends on what you're less of. And it would be a less accurate quote from Flash Gordon:

Ming: After the earthquakes and tidal waves, they won't be quite the human beings you remember. They'll be more tractable, easier for you to rule, in the name of Ming.
Flash: You mean slaves.
Ming: Let's just say, they'll be satisfied with less.

Re:Not a bad idea (1)

J-Doggqx (809697) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627833)

"So once they give you the ability to play the PS3 games on your PSP using the remote feature, you basically will have a portable PS3 at home."

That is an interesting idea, but i think there are a couple of problems with it. The biggest one would be the lack of a right analog stick on the PSP. I would think that (and the lack of the second set of shoulder buttons and SIXAXIS like accelerometers) would prevent being able to play any PS3 game on a PSP. That isn't even discussing the drastic difference in graphics capabilities between the two devices nor bandwidth issues to transmit the game data, textures, etc. in real time.

Like I said, it is an interesting idea, but I just don't think playing PS3 games on the PSP will happen.

Re:Not a bad idea (1)

j00r0m4nc3r (959816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627917)

I think one thing going forward with it will be the ability to link directly to the Playstation 3 using your PS3 and a wireless router

Yeah, except that teenagers don't own PS3s, because they cost, like, $10,000.

Re:Not a bad idea (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 7 years ago | (#18633613)

That would be interesting, except that the quality of streamed video and sound over the Remote Play feature leaves a lot to be desired; supposedly it actually works better with homebrew code.

As it is, you can't even use your PSP to start up Folding@Home.

Perhaps one day, there'll be some sort of PSP/PS3 connectivity along the same lines as what you saw between the GameCube and Game Boy Advance. Whether or not it will be enough to distract gamers from the Wii/DS connectivity planned to be unveiled with the new Pokemon games remains to be seen.

PSP - PUP (-1, Troll)

Vampyre_Dark (630787) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625613)

U being for Useless. I've never seen why anyone was supposed to want to own one of these. This is the same company that made the discman, so why didn't they make the machine able to open up and take DVDs, instead of these crappy UMD things they came up with?

UMDs suck, and most of the games are ports, or substandard originals. Load times are often said to be abysmal too.

"Play Useless Portable"?? (0)

MS-06FZ (832329) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625729)

I think they didn't make the PSP accept full-size DVDs because that would, you know, make the machine considerably larger...

UMD video is pretty dumb, though - like why do I want to buy another copy of a movie in a lower-resolution format?

Game library could definitely use some work - but there are some cool titles out for the machine, like the Rockman X remake, Loco Roco, and Mercury...

Re:"Play Useless Portable"?? (1)

Vampyre_Dark (630787) | more than 7 years ago | (#18626731)

How much larger is a discman? I've seen them get pretty small. They aren't that much bigger than a PSP. Just make it flat, open the thing down the middle, and put the disc in. It would still fit in your hand just as easily, it would just be a bit taller.

Re:"Play Useless Portable"?? (1)

MS-06FZ (832329) | more than 7 years ago | (#18626871)

It'd be at least twice as large. Even the smallest DVD player is larger than the discs that go inside it, right? The PSP is already quite large enough. As a portable, if the thing is on the large end of the spectrum already, making it twice as big makes it less than half as useful.

Better to use something else to play DVD video - whether it's something that can output its video to the PSP screen, or a converter that could store video on a memory stick or hard drive - whatever. The PSP has a fine screen for video but it has no business integrating a big DVD drive.

Re:"Play Useless Portable"?? (1)

Vampyre_Dark (630787) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627035)

It'd be at least twice as large. Even the smallest DVD player is larger than the discs that go inside it, right? The PSP is already quite large enough. As a portable, if the thing is on the large end of the spectrum already, making it twice as big makes it less than half as useful.
Pick up a jewel case, now stack 1 or 2 more on top of it. That's 3 times the size of a disc, and bigger than some discmans I've seen already. Hold the bottom like it was a game controller, (make it rounder around the edges obviously). That's not much bigger than a PSP, it might even use up less horizontal space.

Re:"Play Useless Portable"?? (1)

MS-06FZ (832329) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627201)

You can't incorporate the DVD drive, the PSP screen, the PSP battery, and the PSP controls in a package that size.

Or if you, personally, can, then I would indeed be impressed.

Re:"Play Useless Portable"?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18629743)

But the irony is, if they didn't use DVDs so it would be smaller, why didn't they make the PSP actually small enough to be a USEABLE portable. See, that's the problem. It isn't the games. The UMD makes it too bulky, too fragile, too power-hungry, too slow (for loading). All the things they would have had with DVD playback but instead they added the issue of making it incompatible with a video format people actually like and use. So the "they used UMDs because DVDs were too big" is a stupid argument since UMD has all the disadvantage of using DVDs plus some of its own. It's like the old Topol toothpaste ad "Topol may be more expensive than regular toothpaste, but compared to the cost of cigarettes..." I mean, what kind of logic was that? It wasn't like you were going to smoke the toothpaste instead of the cigarettes. It just made an expensive habit worse.

Re:"Play Useless Portable"?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18630581)

Well, hey, you don't need to convince me UMDs were a bad idea. But you really can't make a PSP smaller than it is without reducing the size of the screen or controls.

But if the use of a disc format is a given, then DVD isn't and option and UMD is a better choice. I wasn't saying they used UMDs because DVDs were too big, or that UMDs are the best available choice (I think they should have gone solid-state. Spinning just about anything wastes a lot of power...) I was just responding the ridiculous notion that using DVDs is even an option for a device like that. I mean, sure, if you want to give up even the pretense of it being a handheld system, then fine, make it as big as a portable DVD player.

I think Sony's got a pretty neat little machine. I feel similarly that there are things I'd have liked them to do differently, but if you take the machine on its own terms, it's a good piece of gear.

Re:"Play Useless Portable"?? (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#18631983)

They wanted a format that had the advantages of a DVD but smaller and with a built in protective case, what else would you recommend?

UMD's can hold 1.8 GB

Nintendo DS carts hold 128 MB.

a 1.8 GB ROM would too expensive. a flash chip with some kind of write protect would be another option but would stil lmake games cost too much, Do you want to pay $70 for games again, like some of the more ROM heavy 16 bit titles?

paradox? (1)

another_fanboy (987962) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625635)

>>'The teens that are doing this value the ability to utilize the portability,' Koller notes paradoxically.

How can this be a paradox? Portability is the driving force behind handhelds.

"Paradox" regarding the "Games You Play" (3, Interesting)

MS-06FZ (832329) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625839)

(And a great big cookie to anybody who gets the reference in the subject line!)

The "paradox" is that people are playing the portable system at home. It's not really a paradox, it just means that the ability to take a portable system elsewhere is not the only good reason to use a portable. I think this is significant (if you accept the idea - and I do) because the PSP is a bit large for a portable system - but also very powerful for a portable. If you look at it as a machine you're gonna take places, it may seem unwieldy - but if you look at it as a machine you'll use at home, it's convenient and the feature set is not too shabby....

Re:"Paradox" regarding the "Games You Play" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18627781)

Hey, I used to carry around an Atari Lynx [wikipedia.org] , and it was almost the length of my forearm. Yes, I have had no life for quite a while now.

Re:"Paradox" regarding the "Games You Play" (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 7 years ago | (#18632099)

I had a Sega Game Gear [wikipedia.org] . It was smaller than your Lynx, but huge in comparison to the monochrome Game Boy. It also ate batteries for breakfast.

That said, I still have it with all games in a shoebox. I should try it with those LiIon AA cells that I have for my digital camera.

Re:"Paradox" regarding the "Games You Play" (1)

ShadowsHawk (916454) | more than 7 years ago | (#18633315)

I had the original monochrome GameBoy many years ago. I thought it had been lost or stolen because it disappeared. Turns out, it had been packed away in a box when my folks moved across country. Lost for nearly a decade, they shipped it to me out the blue. All the games still work, but the gameboy itself is broken.

Re:"Paradox" regarding the "Games You Play" (1)

Burning1 (204959) | more than 7 years ago | (#18628779)

The world needs more Splashdown [wikipedia.org] fans! For those aren't familiar with Splashdown; you owe it to yourself to give them a listen. Most of their songs are available online [sadena.com] .

I highly recommend 50%, Ironspy, and Games you Play. Anything from the Blueshift CD is amazing.

As a side note, I was a little disappointed by Universal Hall Pass but I did think it was worth checking out. Melissa is a great singer.

Re:"Paradox" regarding the "Games You Play" (1)

MS-06FZ (832329) | more than 7 years ago | (#18634991)

The world needs more Splashdown [wikipedia.org] fans! For those aren't familiar with Splashdown; you owe it to yourself to give them a listen. Most of their songs are available online [sadena.com] .
Thank you! You get a cookie! Not just any cookie but a GREAT BIG COOKIE! It's gluten-free, and very yummy.

For first-timers heading to the Splashdown archives, just tell 'em Wirt the Peg-Legged boy sent ya.

You know, I got my sister interested in Splashdown and the first show of theirs she saw was their last. :|

I highly recommend 50%, Ironspy, and Games you Play. Anything from the Blueshift CD is amazing.
Personally I like Paradox better than Games you Play - I mean, they're basically the same song, of course, and I like the embellishments in the Blueshift version ("Games you Play", for those unfamiliar with it) I just think the direction they took in the original was more compelling. The "Sugar High" Doc mix is a long-time favorite of mine.

As a side note, I was a little disappointed by Universal Hall Pass but I did think it was worth checking out. Melissa is a great singer.
(shrug) I think Tutelary Genius, Dragonfly, and Six Step Dragon are solid. Getting my hands on the UHP album after having just "Dragonfly" on endless loop for a few months was a little bit of a shock - you know, 'cause not all the songs on there are like Dragonfly. But it's definitely good stuff IMO.

Re:paradox? (1)

PhoenixOne (674466) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625863)

When most people think "portable" they think about being able to use it outside of their home (on the train, at school, in line, etc.). Not just in other rooms of the house.

Portable at home (1)

MS-06FZ (832329) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625637)

I can definitely relate to the urge to play a portable game system at home - in some ways it's just less hassle than booting up the PS2, taking over the TV, etc. I play the DS at home a lot, it's nice and self-contained, which is especially advantageous since I just moved and most of my stuff is all jumbled aboot.

Re:Portable at home (1)

rehtonAesoohC (954490) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625743)

And, coincidentally, playing it is also probably effectively keeping your stuff jumbled aboot because you can't clean- you're too busy playing your DS! ;-)

Re:Portable at home (1)

MS-06FZ (832329) | more than 7 years ago | (#18626257)

Well, Mars needs women, we need bookshelves. Until we get the needed storage furniture most of the stuff got no place to go.

Re:Portable at home (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 7 years ago | (#18628657)

And, by playing it at home instead of out on the street, teens are less likely to be distracted into walking into the path of a bus or to get mugged for their PSPs (apart from older siblings and their ruffian friends).

Re:Portable at home (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 7 years ago | (#18632121)

I have a PSP and a PS2, and indeed I use the PSP more at home than anywhere else? Why, because dear wife can watch TV while I play PSP while we're sitting/lying on the same couch. As for the lack of good PSP games, well, there is certainly not as much choice as for the PS2. I did however love the fact that Sid Meiers Pirates came out. Brings back old memories and is still as addictive as back in the day.

Other good games I have are: Liberty City Stories, LocoRoco, Popolocrois. The last one is kind of a very childish RPG, but I happen to like that. I've also got two racing games (some F1 thing and Ridge Racer that both came with the PSP), but the problem with those is that one has to invest way too much time to unlock anything interesting. Same reason why I never finished Gran Tourismo 3 on the PS2 ;-) Too much work, not enough reward.

Teenager? No, I'm 30.... unless you still count that as a teenager of course ;-)

Obviously (4, Funny)

DJCouchyCouch (622482) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625679)

Obviously, selling to the 55 to 75 demographic wasn't working

DJCC

Re:Obviously (5, Funny)

Spudtrooper (1073512) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625787)

I've done extensive photographic research on the internet, and have determined that the average "teen" is approximately 27 years old.

Re:Obviously (0, Flamebait)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 7 years ago | (#18626631)

ur full of shit u stupid fuktard

Signed:
Cornflake917, 24-yr old male

Re:Obviously (1)

bumptehjambox (886036) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627143)

ur full of shit u stupid fuktard

waht's the prbolem yuo can't spel? LLO, u r is dumb!

Bumptehjambox, 24 1/2 year old male

Re:Obviously (0, Flamebait)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#18628017)

To both the Parent and Grandparent:

Pure Genius.

Re:Obviously (0, Flamebait)

alc6379 (832389) | more than 7 years ago | (#18632003)

I'll take a karma hit to ask this question:

Who the hell is modding this thread flamebait?

Re:Obviously (1)

alc6379 (832389) | more than 7 years ago | (#18693625)

WOW! And so it happens...

Thus showing us that sense of humor is not a selecting criteria in giving mod points...

Dude! (3, Funny)

Bobfrankly1 (1043848) | more than 7 years ago | (#18625741)

Dude!, Yer getting a d....PSP!!!!
Sorry, couldn't resist, someone would have done it eventually....

*ducks the negative mod points*

From their new ads it's underway. (3, Interesting)

kinglink (195330) | more than 7 years ago | (#18626027)

What say teenager other than a good dick joke (link to blog that contains video and then links to video:http://kotaku.com/gaming/psp/clip-and-the-ps p-pedo-teen-ads-start-249812.php)

Seriously Sony can't find a market for this piece of hardware, Sony didn't drop the price retailers DEMANDED sony drop the price because they had given so much store space for it and they weren't even able to make a profit on it. Otherwise you wouldn't see that many PSPs anywhere.

Sony doesn't have the games the fans want, doesn't allow the functionality the fans want, and charges more than the DS. The question Sony needs to ask themselves is the following what part of that sentence means the PSP is a good idea? I stated when the PSP first came out it needed unique games. All I saw then was PS2 ports. Now a couple years later I own one (great MP3 player, homebrew system, and I got it at a steal) but now I ask the same question. Lumines can only go so far. The owners of the system can't even find the unique games because all the get are 100 ports and 1 unique game. There's good games out there, but Sony isn't giving the unique games a shot.

Now reread that last paragraph, change DS to Wii, Ps2 to 360, and Lumines to Resistance. Oh and then change it to the fact I don't own one. It's the same story, the PS3 can't find an audience because it's just a "me too" situation. They don't have any worthy exclusives for at least 6 monthes. Their current games are moderate (Motorstorm and resistance didn't impress much at the game studio I work) Ps3 home can only go so far(especially when unlike the 360, it's only for when your not playing games. On the 360 when you're playing the games you still get voice chat, friends and more while playing your chosen game)

Sony needs a new direction. And sadly it's too late this generation, the die has been cast, they crossed the Rubicon. They didn't provide the fans with what the fans wanted. They didn't provide the developers with what developers wanted. They provided sony with what sony wanted. Anyone telling you they are supporting their developers is a first party studio or getting paid (through assistance or money). A lot of studios were thinking it but Eidos gave it voice last month, and you'll see more and more developers giving secondary support to the ps3 versions of games.

Re:From their new ads it's underway. (1)

suborbit73 (1083725) | more than 7 years ago | (#18626789)

Now reread that last paragraph, change DS to Wii, Ps2 to 360, and Lumines to Resistance. Oh and then change it to the fact I don't own one. It's the same story, the PS3 can't find an audience because it's just a "me too" situation. They don't have any worthy exclusives for at least 6 monthes. Their current games are moderate No, you reread it. My head hurt the first time I tried decoding your english.

Re:From their new ads it's underway. (1)

suborbit73 (1083725) | more than 7 years ago | (#18626903)

...sigh... A smart comment wasted by bad formatting.

Re:From their new ads it's underway. (1)

amohat (88362) | more than 7 years ago | (#18628239)

Yes, but the irony makes it all worth it.

"Upstairs" doesn't even begin to cover it (4, Funny)

GroeFaZ (850443) | more than 7 years ago | (#18626155)

You can play it anywhere in and around the house. Mowing the lawn? PSP! Cleaning the pool? PSP! Taking a shower? PSP! The finite possibilities downright scare me.

You're doing it wrong (4, Funny)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 7 years ago | (#18626267)

Black Handheld needs games badly.
Black Handheld, your life force is running out.
Black Handheld is about to die.

The modern story of Sony could be summed up in: "Someone shot the food!"

What's wrong? (1)

isaacklinger (966649) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627775)

Is there really an impression that the PSP isn't doing well? I know it sold over twenty million units, and it has a decent game library. What's up with the gloom and doom?

Re:What's wrong? (5, Interesting)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#18628309)

Tough to say.

Firstly, the PSP is fighting against decades of nostalgia. Despite the rise and fall in their console market share, Nintendo has been the undisputed champion of hand helds. They've defeated Atari, Sega (who even made a handheld Sega Genesis of all things), and anyone else who happened to try to muscle in. Simply put, if you played a dedicated portable game system in the past 20 years it probably was either Nintendo or one of those crappy $5 battery eaters.

Secondly, Lumines was great. That doesn't sound like it was bad for the PSP, but it was all the PSP really had going for it at first (at least in terms of games). People who bought it for games had to wait a long time for the now oft cited excellent titles to appear on the system. That slump both gave Nintendo the chance to prove the DS had what it took, and took away what had otherwise been excellent momentum from the PSP.

Thirdly, load times. The PSP is, to my knowledge, the first handheld that sports the oft maligned loading bar. I remember this being the most common complaint about the portable a year or two back. It takes the DS all of 2 seconds to boot up, and as few as 5 to get from there to playing the game. The worst I've ever seen was 15 seconds from "flip to frag". However, the PSP reportedly could take in excess of a full minute to load a game.

Fourthly, news. We don't hear much about the PSP in the news outside of how homebrewers have again bypassed the latest firmware update, or how the DS is outselling it 2 to 1. We don't hear about how a game sold incredibly well, only about how everyone loves New Super Mario Bros. or Nintendogs. We learned about the death of UMD, while at the same time learning about how Nintendo was broadening and expanding the market. While the games problem is at this point rectified, there isn't much good news to be heard.

Fifthly, the PS3. While it may not be fair, a number of people have turned against Sony for what they see as an outrageous insult to their intelligence and pride. Should the PS3 be viewed as such? Not really, but for some it is. That also translates into anger against anything Sony, which includes the PSP. Guilty by association I fear.

Lastly, Sony PR. All of the above are conquerable and defeatible obstacles, except Sony's PR is terrible. We might have figured it out back with the borderline racist squirrels, or the ill-conceived graffiti campaign. They might have noticed when their PS3 ads and marketing were similarly ill-received. However, the bottom line is that if Sony had made the Wii or the DS, even with the same line-up of games and Shigeru Miyamoto behind them, Sony's PR would block the pathway to success like a giant, immovable boulder. They more than anything else are in a position to solve the issues the PSP faces because they are mostly issues of image, but they have also proven themselves to be absolutely incopetant at their job. They're even bad at finding other people to do their job for them (again, see the graffiti and that "grass roots" website campaign). In short, Sony's ball and chain is their PR, and until they stop dragging that dead weight behind them they'll never be able to catch Nintendo.

I'd rather like that all to change. It'd be nice if the systems could be weighed purely on their merits and achievements rather than by the stupid things their PR departments do.

Re:What's wrong? (2, Interesting)

rsmith-mac (639075) | more than 7 years ago | (#18629513)

Software would seem to be the primary problem. The biggest problem is sales numbers, but I'll touch on quality quickly. The PSP games seem are too often remakes and ports of PS2 games; Madden, GTA, etc. It does have some unique games, but unlike the DS these games aren't selling very well.

As far as the game sales numbers go, the PSP is having a terrible time. The best selling PSP game in North America is GTA:LCS at just shy of 1.5 million units, which is behind several DS titles. Additionally a lot of anecdotal evidence suggests that a large fraction of the sales are for PSP firmware hacking, which would seem to back up the fact that no other PSP game is even close to cracking 1 million units yet (according to VGCharts). The situation in Japan is even worse due to both hardware and software problems. Overall the DS is selling much better, which puts the PSP at a significant disadvantage. A PSP game just finally broke 1mil units this year, on a chart overrun with DS titles.

On the whole, the PSP has a much lower attach rate(that is, the number of games sold per console sold) compared to the DS, which is a problem for Sony since they have a greater reliance on software in turning a profit. The primary culprit is that people are not using the PSP as a games machine, and instead are doing other things with it, which is why it's selling so well while simultaneously having a much poorer attach rate. I believe Sony is finally making a profit on each unit they sell(or at least were until they dropped the price), but at the end of the day people hacking their PSPs are causing a massive headache for Sony and their partners. When you consider the higher development cost of PSP games(due to the higher bar on graphics), selling fewer units than DS games while simultaneously costing more to make is squeezing publishers hard and sucking the profitability out of the system.

It's not unlike the Xbox 1 really. It's not doing too poorly, but no one's making a profit on it like they are the DS, and that's leading to a lot of these stories. Unfortunately for Sony it's still a young platform, it's going to be a couple more years before it's ready for retirement, and there's not much left they can do to improve their situation until then.

Re:What's wrong? (2, Interesting)

benzapp (464105) | more than 7 years ago | (#18629941)

As far as the game sales numbers go, the PSP is having a terrible time. The best selling PSP game in North America is GTA:LCS at just shy of 1.5 million units, which is behind several DS titles.

So I never heard of VGCharts before. It's an interesting site. It does list SHIPPING quantities, not actual sales figures - which is an important difference. But anyway... I was curious which DS titles sold more than GTA:LCS. I live in NYC and see plenty of portable gaming systems on the subway. I'd say the PSP outsells the DS by at least a factor of 10 to 1 for subway riders. I almost never see an adult with the thing.

Looking at the VGCarts site, it makes sense. The only DS games to outsell GTA:LCS include stuff like Nintendogs, Mario, Pokemon, Braintraining, and Animal Crossing. Outside of Braintraining, which does sound remotely interesting, would an adult play any of these games?

I don't think so. Isn't it possible the DS is just marketed and oriented towards children while the PSP simply is not? I mean, let's look at all the DS games that have shipped over 1MM units:

  Nintendogs Nintendo 1.55 4.96 5.58 12.09
  New Super Mario Bros Nintendo 4.54 2.62 2.23 9.39
  Brain Training Nintendo 3.52 1.53 2.28 7.33
  Animal Crossing: Wild World Nintendo 4.32 1.29 1.69 7.30
  Mario Kart DS Nintendo 2.26 2.43 2.01 6.70
  Pokemon Diamond / Pearl Nintendo 5.13 0.00 0.00 5.13
  Super Mario 64 DS Nintendo 1.12 2.14 1.39 4.65
  Brain Training 2 Nintendo 4.48 0.00 0.00 4.48
  Big Brain Academy Nintendo 1.46 0.99 0.81 3.26
  Pokemon Mysterious Dungeon: Blue Rescue Team Nintendo 0.82 1.15 0.97 2.94
  English Training for Adults Nintendo 1.94 0.25 0.29 2.48
  Warioware: Touched Nintendo 1.20 0.50 0.45 2.15
  Tetris DS Nintendo 1.22 0.43 0.28 1.93
  Yoshi Island 2 Nintendo 0.49 0.81 0.37 1.67
  Sonic Rush Sega 0.06 0.49 0.96 1.51
  Final Fantasy III Square 1.04 0.47 0.00 1.51
  Common Knowledge Training Nintendo 1.46 0.00 0.00 1.46
  Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time Nintendo 0.48 0.70 0.27 1.45
  Pokemon Ranger Nintendo 0.77 0.67 0.00 1.44
  Kirby Squeak Squad Nintendo 1.00 0.37 0.00 1.37
  Tamogotchi Connection: Corner Shop Bandai 1.13 0.12 0.10 1.35
  Dragon Quest Monsters Joker Enix 1.33 0.00 0.00 1.33
  Mario Hoops 3 on 3 Nintendo 0.51 0.62 0.16 1.29
  Clubhouse Games Nintendo 0.71 0.19 0.14 1.04
  Love and Berry DS Collection Sega 1.01 0.00 0.00 1.01

I dunno. It just seems like most of these games are not oriented towards my age group. Tons of cutsie games. Final Fantasy III excluded of course. 90% of them are Nintendo games. Who knows what kind of draconian sales agreements they have with vendors. These shipments could have been FORCED.

If we assume these numbers are accurate, I think we can only assume that what people say about Nintendo is true: The company markets their products to children. That's fine, but I just don't quite understand why it inspires such fanatical loyalty amongst Slashdot readers.

Anyway, I digress... I guess it doesn't matter that the same list has about 5 times as many PC games having sold over 1 million units than the PSP. That sounds great until you realize the list includes ancient titles like Doom, Sim City 2000, Theme Park, Myst, and The 7th Guest. The PSP list is modest, but it really isn't so bad when compared to the PC list.

I think when you consider the numbers in context, the DS probably is doing really well, but the PSP is hardly a failure and has done as well or better than the PC game market.
 

DS is for adults, PSP for "pretent to be adults" (2, Informative)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#18632013)

The only DS games to outsell GTA:LCS include stuff like Nintendogs, Mario, Pokemon, Braintraining, and Animal Crossing. Outside of Braintraining, which does sound remotely interesting, would an adult play any of these games?

Yes. Next question?

Isn't it possible the DS is just marketed and oriented towards children while the PSP simply is not?

No. [youtube.com]

The PSP is not marketed towards adults. Really. I own both a DS and a PSP. The DS gets the "adult" games like Hotel Dusk: Room 215. The PSP gets the "I wish I were an adult and need to pretend to be one by plaing violent games" games like GTA.

Both are nice consoles, but unfortunately, the recent games on the PSP have underwhelmed me. I do play and love fun games like New Super Mario or Mario Kart, but on the PSP, there's just too much stuff targeted at teens and pre-teens who need to prove how grown-up they are by playing games they think grown-ups play. By now, I mostly use the PSP to watch TV shows and movies while riding the train.

Re:DS is for adults, PSP for "pretent to be adults (1)

benzapp (464105) | more than 7 years ago | (#18633373)

Yes. Next question?

Hmm. How about this, why don't you find me the personal website of an adult, even a college student, that proclaims fanatical devotion to Pokemon and Nintendogs. Especially in light of the sales figures you cited, I just din't believe it.

The PSP is not marketed towards adults. Really. I own both a DS and a PSP. The DS gets the "adult" games like Hotel Dusk: Room 215. The PSP gets the "I wish I were an adult and need to pretend to be one by plaing violent games" games like GTA.

I was thinking more along the lines of Metal Gear Portable Ops or Ace Combat X - these games, while they are easily played by children, have a more serious tone and artistic style that isn't insulting.

Both are nice consoles, but unfortunately, the recent games on the PSP have underwhelmed me. I do play and love fun games like New Super Mario or Mario Kart, but on the PSP, there's just too much stuff targeted at teens and pre-teens who need to prove how grown-up they are by playing games they think grown-ups play. By now, I mostly use the PSP to watch TV shows and movies while riding the train.

Ahh, and there's the rub. Your personal views are of course yours and I won't dispute them - but seriously, does that translate into the console being a failure? I won't even bother to name the dozens of excellent and popular PC based games that didn't even make that list. They weren't failures, and are enjoyed by many today. If the PSP can outperform that market, how is it a failure?

All I simply saying is don't apply your personal views, which given the data you cited and based on my personal experience appear to be outside the mainstream, to a business that is otherwise doing well. Maybe it is not well enough for you, but it is enough for the hundreds of thousands of PSP owners who are quite happy with their systems.

Re:DS is for adults, PSP for "pretent to be adults (1)

ZorbaTHut (126196) | more than 7 years ago | (#18634261)

When I got New Super Mario Bros I played it pretty much constantly until I finished it. Several of my friends did the same. We have semi-regular DS multiplayer bouts, where NSMB and Mario Kart 64 are our staples. Several of us have played and beat Super Mario 64, and several of us own Tetris (I do not, due to a huge game queue at this point, but I did get Mario and Luigi Partners in Time.) I believe several of us own Nintendogs too, though I haven't gotten into that one. (I've been kind of avoiding it since it sounds addictive.)

Nintendo makes fun games. Sony, fundamentally, does not. The vast majority of good Sony-platform games are third-party games, and for whatever reason, the competent third-party developers have largely avoided the PSP (with several notable exceptions.)

I have both a DS and a PSP, and the fact is that the DS has significantly more good games than the PSP does. Yes, a lot of those are more cartoony and have more primary colors and less noir. They're still damn fun games though, and many people don't mind cartoony games with lots of primary colors.

Re:DS is for adults, PSP for "pretent to be adults (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#18634587)

How about this, why don't you find me the personal website of an adult, even a college student, that proclaims fanatical devotion to Pokemon and Nintendogs

Huh? Why would I do that? Are you claiming that there are no adults who have a fanatical devotion to Pokémon or Nintendogs? If so, you are probably somewhat insane. Pokémon, by the way, is an RPG with a rather complex fighting mechanism, and it is played by many adult gamers. Nintendogs is played by adults as well, especially females. Yes, I know several women who did play that game for months and months when it came out.

I'm not sure what you're arguing for, anyway. I claimed that adults play games like Mario Kart, not that adults are fanatically devoted to Pokémon.

Your personal views are of course yours and I won't dispute them - but seriously, does that translate into the console being a failure?

I did not argue that it was a failure (although that would be quite an easy argument to make). I argued that it was not targeted at adults, and that the DS was a better console for adults.

All I simply saying is don't apply your personal views, which given the data you cited and based on my personal experience appear to be outside the mainstream

Again, I'm not sure what you mean by that comment. Are you saying that adults playing DS games are less mainstream than adults playing PSP games? If so, then again, I would be inclined to question your sanity :-)

It's entirely possible that, from your personal experience, adults are more likely to own PSPs than DSs. However, worldwide sales numbers of consoles as well as of games, and of the particular genres of games that are doing well, should tell you that you are, in fact, the one outside the mainstream here.

Re:DS is for adults, PSP for "pretent to be adults (1)

benzapp (464105) | more than 7 years ago | (#18635175)

Huh? Why would I do that? Are you claiming that there are no adults who have a fanatical devotion to Pokémon or Nintendogs? If so, you are probably somewhat insane. Pokémon, by the way, is an RPG with a rather complex fighting mechanism, and it is played by many adult gamers. Nintendogs is played by adults as well, especially females. Yes, I know several women who did play that game for months and months when it came out.

Oh yeah, when you know you can't win an argument, just attack the premise as insane. Ok.

I did not argue that it was a failure (although that would be quite an easy argument to make). I argued that it was not targeted at adults, and that the DS was a better console for adults.

Why don't you read your original post - you didn't make any such claim. I was attempting to suggest the premise that the PSP and the DS cater to different markets (in light of the article that is the subject of this entire discussion). You claimed, using a source I found interesting and novel, that the DS sells many more games than the PSP. While this is true, most of the games seemed oriented towards children. As further support, I noted how few PC related games were on that list - most were very old and genre defining, like Doom II. Your entire original post was defeatist, suggesting the PSP is failing to compete with the DS. But I just don't think there is much of a comparison to make. Are PC game makers failing to compete against the DS as well? They have even FEWER games than the PSP.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean by that comment. Are you saying that adults playing DS games are less mainstream than adults playing PSP games? If so, then again, I would be inclined to question your sanity :-)

No, I am saying that far fewer adults are playing the DS than the PSP. I've seen it myself across all races and classes.

It's entirely possible that, from your personal experience, adults are more likely to own PSPs than DSs. However, worldwide sales numbers of consoles as well as of games, and of the particular genres of games that are doing well, should tell you that you are, in fact, the one outside the mainstream here.

You still seem to be missing the market segment concept I'm suggesting is very possible. The mainstream DS user is a child. The mainstream PSP user is an adult. The worldwide sales statistics you cited I believe support that. I simply refuse to believe the majority of people playing Nintendogs and Pokemon are adults. You can certainly continue along that premise, but let's face it. This is a slashdot meme.

DS good. PSP bad.

Re:DS is for adults, PSP for "pretent to be adults (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#18636467)

Oh yeah, when you know you can't win an argument, just attack the premise as insane. Ok.


I don't know if you ever took logic, but one of the fundamentals states that should a conclusion follow from its premises, you can only refute the conclusion by refuting the premises.

They may not have included internet-based evidence in this endeavor simply because it's easy to find. Whether from the horse's mouth or otherwise. Although, I'll admit that using the term "Adults" in your search can retrieve some less desirable results.

Examples:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155881 [1up.com]
http://www.gamespot.com/users/PsychoDuckRules/show _blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-24234413 [gamespot.com]
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Grandpa-Wants-to-Pl ay-Pokemon-on-DS-Lite-42245.shtml [softpedia.com]

DS is for adults, PSP for "pretent to be adults". (1)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 7 years ago | (#18636837)

No, I am saying that far fewer adults are playing the DS than the PSP. I've seen it myself across all races and classes.

As you stated, in your experiance, riding the subway in NYC that very well may be true. Go to Tokyo (or any major city in Japan), and it will paint a very different picture. The DS is very much a mainstream product, and the PSP is more niche.

I simply refuse to believe the majority of people playing Nintendogs and Pokemon are adults.

In NYC that may be true, but travel more and you will notice the error in that. NYC is a great city, but isn't representitive of our own culture let alone that of other countries.

Re:DS is for adults, PSP for "pretent to be adults (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#18641799)

Oh yeah, when you know you can't win an argument, just attack the premise as insane. Ok.

That's quite an ironic way to answer to my post. Nothing I can say to that, other than that you're kind of making my point.

I argued that it was not targeted at adults, and that the DS was a better console for adults.

Why don't you read your original post - you didn't make any such claim.

This is indeed kind of baffling. I did not argue that the PSP was not targeted at adults, and I did not argue that the DS was a better console for adults? Let me quote from my post: "(...) The PSP is not marketed towards adults (...) The DS gets the "adult" games like Hotel Dusk: Room 215 (...)"

Seriously, what is it with you?

You claimed, using a source I found interesting and novel, that the DS sells many more games than the PSP

Oh, now I understand why your arguments seem so meaningless: You must be confusing me with somebody else.

Your entire original post was defeatist, suggesting the PSP is failing to compete with the DS

Haha, you know, the funny part is how you tell me to read my own post. A post which I've actually never written, because I have no idea what you're talking about.

I am saying that far fewer adults are playing the DS than the PSP

There are twice as many DSs out there than PSPs. Even if no PSP was ever sold to a non-adult, and only half of all DSs are played by adults, you're wrong. And again, your whole premise that the PSP is targeted at adults, while the DS is targeted at children, is rather absurd. Here's another piece of evidence: Children Prefer PS3 Most, Wii Least. [kotaku.com] Children actually prefer the more "mature" consoles, not the ones ostensibly targeted at children. Yet another piece of evidence: Is this an ad targeted at adults? [kotaku.com] I've already linked to the DS ad, which is clearly targeted at adults. Now I've linked at a PSP ad which is clearly targeted at teens. Please, for the love of god, provide some evidence for your claims if you want to continue this discussion.

Your whole claim is based on the idea that adults don't play games like Mario Kart or Nintendogs. That idea is quite simply absurd. If you are not able to provide any kind of real evidence for your claim, I will accept that as an admission of defeat :-)

Re:DS is for adults, PSP for "pretent to be adults (1)

Firefly1 (251590) | more than 7 years ago | (#18634969)

I was thinking more along the lines of Metal Gear Portable Ops or Ace Combat X - these games, while they are easily played by children, have a more serious tone and artistic style that isn't insulting.
Those are two of the reasons I've considered getting a PSP now and again; others include Killzone: Liberation, the Metal Gear Ac!d titles, and Pursuit Force. The price drop just validates the theory that, at least with game systems, all good things come at reasonable prices to they who wait.
On the other tendril, I think it would be nice if Sony released an external UMD player that would allow folks to play said games on their PS2/3.

Re:What's wrong? (1)

ElleyKitten (715519) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651557)

I dunno. It just seems like most of these games are not oriented towards my age group.

I'm not sure what age group you are, but I'm 25 and I like a lot of the games on that list, while my PSP has only been used for Valkyrie Profile. All of my friends have DSs but I'm the only one I know with a PSP. The DS isn't made just for children by any measure.

Re:What's wrong? (1)

PyroMosh (287149) | more than 7 years ago | (#18697701)

Just because something is appropriate for children, does not make it "just for children".

I own a DS and I have a couple dozen games for it. I play it about two hours a day on the way to and from work on the train each day. Unlike posters who have mentioned similar activity, I can not report having seen anyone playing a DS or a PSP on the train. Maybe Philadelphia is a bit different, but I never see it.

A game like Barbie Horse Adventures, I'll agree. Probably just for kids. Kirby Squeak Squad, probably the same boat.

But what about New Super Mario Bros.? It's a new take on a classic. It's a great game. I'm 27, so it probably doesn't hurt that it panders directly to my age group, but still. My girlfriend reports she sees kids playing it at her work from time to time too. So that's a demographic with a roughly 20 year spread.

Brain Training is poster child for adult games on the DS. It's a system seller, not only for adults, but for adults who have never played video games! The 50 somethings and 60 somethings who do not have nostalgic memories of Super Mario or Sonic or Frogger, because when they were kids, they didn't exist. That's amazing to me.

Nintendogs is a cute Tomagotchi. Kids and girls love them. My girlfriend wanted one (but then never really mentioned it again, oddly). She's 25. I've never played it, because I don't need a time sink game like that (I already have Animal Crossing) and I just don't like dogs.

Animal Crossing. It's a cutesy little game. But it's FUN. At least for a while. It's fun to see all the things you can do in the little world they set up. It's fun to go after a certain style for your house and go to Nook's shop every day in hopes of finding whatever it was you were looking for.

Mario Kart. Again, it's a fun racing game. You could replace the characters with more futuristic hovercraft, and make the levels be more futuristic, call if F-Zero, and it would have sold less than half as much, because PEOPLE WANT MARIO KART, BECAUSE THEY KNOW MARIO KART TO BE FUN. I love me some F-Zero though.

Pokemon, I can't comment on. I've never played them. Not because it's Kiddy, but because I know what kind of game it is, and I don't want that kind of time sink when there are like 10 games or so in the series. I will agree though that this game is defiantly marketed at kids, not adults.

Warioware touched... I think Penny-Arcade said it: "Warioware games are the most fun you can have between breaths". Period. For the DS version, I was basically "Meh." I own it, but I couldn't get into it because the story is inane. And you can't skip any of it the first time through. I don't like skipping story in games. But Wario Ware should not HAVE a story to skip! I own WW:Twisted and WW:Smooth Moves for the GBA and Wii respectively, and they're excellent games. I don't see how you can put an age on these games. Non-gamers probably would not want to pick these up and play them, but they are a ton of fun.

Tetris is an amazing game for all ages. I have put far more hours into it than is healthy for anyone. Again, how can you put an age on this?

Yoshi's Island 2: Sequel to a game that is often heralded as one of the high points of the SNES. Unfortunately, it came out at the end of the SNES' lifetime. So the original did not sell that well. But I suspect that the majority of sales of the sequel are people who had at least played the original. It's as cutesy and sugary sweet as can be. That doesn't mean it's any less FUN for an adult.

Mario & Luigi 2: Partners in Time is great. It's a RPG in a Mario universe with slightly action oriented turn based combat. I've put it down for a while, but I'll probably return to it once I'm through with Hotel Dusk.

The rest I can't comment on, because they're either Japanese titles, or otherwise games I'm not familiar with.

I don't know how old you are, but I'm 27, and I think these titles are marketed squarely at me. I grew up with Mario, and Mario Kart. I'm going to guess that you're perhaps a bit younger, since you singled out Final Fantasy to defend. Perhaps a PS1 was your first system? Perhaps I'm wrong, it's just a hunch.

I'll also note, like you did that Nintendo sells well. Because the titles are excellent. There are a ton of games for kids. Lots of cartoon licenses, and the like. None of them ever reach the charts. But Mario... put Mario in the title and you almost guarantee a best seller. Because gamers of all ages know Mario has a reputation for immense fun. And Nintendo knows this too. They feed into each other. Nintendo knows that to keep that reputation, it has to live up to it. So we get Mario Galaxy pushed back a year, and other annoying problems. In the end, it gets us better games.

As far as the draconian policies, retailers will not tolerate that for long. Draconian policies guarantee you'll ship 1 shipment of a lousy game. They don't guarantee a re-order when the game fails to sell quickly. You'll ship 10,000, not multi million copies.

I'll agree, the PSP is no failure in terms of units shipped. I wish I could disagree with that. But If the DS weren't overshadowing it, the PSP would look like a success. I just don't know of any decent titles besides LocoRoco and Luminens. Nor do I know anyone excited about the PSP.

The funny thing is, Sony is marketing teens, that's all I ever saw buy the damn thing when I worked at Best Buy. The PSP had a set in stone demographic: Thugged out teen and early twenties males. It would always be the 16 year old kid with the eight foot t-shirt and the "bling". Who picks up 3-6 Mafia and a PSP. Maybe the cheapest subwoofer allowable by law too so he can rattle the paint off of his civic.

I never saw a woman or girl ask about a PSP. I never saw an adult buy one (except the first month or so) who asking about it the context of a gift. I serviced a couple that were adult owned, but that's it. I know it's anecdotal, but when I notice a pattern like this, it's there. Trust me. I'm usually the last to notice such things.

Re:What's wrong? (1)

benzapp (464105) | more than 7 years ago | (#18701143)

I don't know how old you are, but I'm 27, and I think these titles are marketed squarely at me. I grew up with Mario, and Mario Kart. I'm going to guess that you're perhaps a bit younger, since you singled out Final Fantasy to defend. Perhaps a PS1 was your first system? Perhaps I'm wrong, it's just a hunch.

Nahh, I'm 29. I spent my entire childhood playing those nintendo games. Final Fantasy II and III were probably my favorite games for the SNES. Never got a PS1 or PS2, although I have a Gamecube, I got primarily to play Zelda and F-Zero. F-Zero GX is an awesome game, Windwaker sucked IMHO.

I'm not averse to Nintendo franchises completely, but I first played Zelda when I was like 8. That was a long time ago. Also, there are some interesting non-Nintendo characters on the PSP, like Mega Man Powered Up. A great game.

I'll agree, the PSP is no failure in terms of units shipped. I wish I could disagree with that. But If the DS weren't overshadowing it, the PSP would look like a success. I just don't know of any decent titles besides LocoRoco and Luminens. Nor do I know anyone excited about the PSP.

There are quite a few out there. Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops is a perfect game. I don't have F-zero anymore, but Wipeout Pure is just as good. Ace Combat X is also a very good game. The GTA games aren't revolutionary but have provided tons of fun. Sid Meier's Pirates! brings back fond memories of one of the best computer games from the 1980s.

The funny thing is, Sony is marketing teens, that's all I ever saw buy the damn thing when I worked at Best Buy. The PSP had a set in stone demographic: Thugged out teen and early twenties males. It would always be the 16 year old kid with the eight foot t-shirt and the "bling". Who picks up 3-6 Mafia and a PSP. Maybe the cheapest subwoofer allowable by law too so he can rattle the paint off of his civic.

I will admit that is a large cross section of the buyers, but I think it has to do with the many sports games available on the PSP.

Re:What's wrong? (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 7 years ago | (#18628431)

My own personal observation. I went to the store one day with $300 in cash. Saw the PSP for $250 and thought I could get one game with it.

There wasn't a single one on the shelves (and PSP had the largest allotment of space) that interested me and I hadn't already played on the PS2. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather a PS2 version for the big screen, but there wasn't even a game left I was interested in.

DS, on the other hand, had a new castlevania, mario, final fantasy, and remakes of several others (final fantasy, resident evil, zelda) that had bonus content I wanted to try. It was a no-brainer.

Do they even know how to market anymore? (3, Insightful)

shoptroll (544006) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627067)

Because targeting it at the 20 something crowd who actually could afford it did wonders for sales?

I can see this move if this was October and XMas was looming. But early April? "Mommy I want a PSP for Easter. Pwetty pwease? How about Memorial Day?"

I smell pre-whatever-the-hell-e3-is-this-year-hype... Or a quick attempt to keep their product relevant and on the shelves.

*Waits to see if Nintendo fires back by dropping the DS Lite to $149 or $129 (could kill both the PS2 and PSP in one shot lol)*

Re:Do they even know how to market anymore? (2, Informative)

porcupine8 (816071) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627369)

You... do know the DS Lite has always been $129 (US), right? And considering it's been out for less than a year, I'm guessing the first possible price drop wouldn't be til Christmas, if then.

Re:Do they even know how to market anymore? (1)

ShadowsHawk (916454) | more than 7 years ago | (#18633903)

I'm betting $100-110 by Christmas. I picked mine up around September, but I know a few people that are holding out for that magical $99.99 price tag. Either that or they would need to include a game or two.

Re:Do they even know how to market anymore? (1)

porcupine8 (816071) | more than 7 years ago | (#18634299)

They could buy used. I got my DS for $90 - and it's bright red! They don't even offer the Lite in that color yet. ;) But yeah, I'm guessing they'll either drop the price or bundle a game for Christmas.

Re:Do they even know how to market anymore? (1)

Talgrath (1061686) | more than 7 years ago | (#18629679)

Erm, how would it kill the PS2 (one of the best selling game systems of all times)? Sure, the PS2's lifespan is coming to an end because the next generation of consoles is out, but it wouldn't be a DS Lite price drop that would kill the PS2; especially since they aren't even in the same market (the portable market and the console market are two different beasts). If anything will "kill" the PS2, which i assume you mean drop sales to nil, it will be the end of the PS2's generation of consoles, and it looks like the PS2 is going to be last out the door since hit games are STILL coming out for it (such as God of War 2).

Well, you can all eat my ass... (0, Flamebait)

bumptehjambox (886036) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627305)

PSP is awesome. I just finished The Warriors and it was one of the best games I've played in a while, there isn't a handheld that compares in screen size and graphics quality/power.

The greatest racing game, Burnout, in all of it's glory on handheld (not a busted looking DS version.) That alone can't be topped. I was playing it on the late train home from NYC and all of the drunks couldn't help but look over my shoulder and stare, like moths. Methinks they need to market to drunk teenagers, like everything else.

Re:Well, you can all eat my ass... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18630091)

Yes, but you can get much better versions of Burnout and The Warriors on PS2, which is the real problem.

p.s. Did you play the same Burnout PSP as me? Because the I played Legends, and it was crap. The nub was rubbish for steering and you couldn't really see oncoming traffic... although perhaps Dominator does that better?

Re:Well, you can all eat my ass... (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 7 years ago | (#18633637)

I loved it. It was much better than Cats. I'm going to play it again and again.

Classic rivalry! (1)

bumptehjambox (886036) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627387)

Just as you could always tell a Genesis kid from a Super Nintendo kid, since the ps3/360 are too similar, the closest thing is DS vs PSP kids. I was a Genesis kid. Who were you?

Re:Classic rivalry! (1)

TGTilde (874930) | more than 7 years ago | (#18630715)

Genesis duh. Game Gear over a Game Boy too ... I want my money back for all the batteries it ate though.

Re:Classic rivalry! (1)

porcupine8 (816071) | more than 7 years ago | (#18631499)

I still have the SNES my siblings and I saved up for and bought with our own money when I was 14...

I misread... (1)

p4rri11iz3r (1084543) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627451)

When I first read this, I thought it said "Dude, get your own campaign", which actually would have been quite accurate, given that Nintendo has been marketing to the younger audience for years.

The new ads are brilliant. (3, Insightful)

AbsoluteXyro (1048620) | more than 7 years ago | (#18627491)

I saw one of the new ads on Sony's PSP website. It read "Easily more affordable than having a girlfriend. Dude, get your own." It seems to imply a scenario of trading up a PSP for someone's girlfriend, to which the reply is "Dude, get your own (girlfriend)." I'm sure that's not what it is supposed to mean, but the combination of tag-lines on that particular ad could have been better thought out. Not to mention the overall demeaning tone of the piece, I'm not sure who it is supposed to appeal to; it seems to make fun of teenage boys who do not have girlfriends by reassuring them that hey, at least your video games are cheaper than the girlfriend would be, and at the same time it encourages teenage boys to think of girls as little more than paid service providers. So right there you've alienated boys without girlfriends, girls all together, and any other teens that might find the ad offensive. I guess at least it isn't as bad as "Take a running leap here" posters near subway tracks.

Re:The new ads are brilliant. (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#18628353)

"He who sacrifices his girlfriend for a PSP deserves neither."

-Ben Franklin (paraphrased)

Why the PSP sucks, part 38 (1)

amohat (88362) | more than 7 years ago | (#18628355)

All they have to do is un-Sony the PSP and it will rock. Step one: add a 20/30 GB hard drive, ipod style. The memory stick limitation is killing them.

Already has a great little screen and it's able to get online via wifi. Make the wifi able to share files amongst other devices...even just PSP users, and you got something.

As a portable gaming device, it's limited. As a universal portable media device it will sell like an ipod. Make it run Skype and flash video via the wifi and I'll even buy a few.

Sony could be a great company again, except Sony keeps holding it back.

Bail out now Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18628499)

I've resisted getting a PSP for these reasons:
a) It doesn't do anything my DS.Lite doesn't do (I have a playyan,thus covering both the mp3 and video angle)
b) It doesn't do anything my PDA doesn't do (the PDA does everything but play mp4 video well
c) It doesn't replace my cell phone (Which is a cell PHONE, no video, no mp3 ringers, etc)

I don't need another toy on my person. Quite honestly here's what would make me buy a PSP, or a PSP2, or something, note previous failings from Nokia:

i) It has to replace all the crap in my pockets, be that:
  1) It has to play mp3's(and current audio codecs), from a SD card (They are up to 8GB now, screw the UMD.)
  2) It has to play mp4/h.264 video straight up with no conversion step, and more importantly, it has to have the ability to STREAM multicast/RTP/RTSP from anywhere, not just the ps3, This would let me use it as a "tv-extender with any device on my network". In fact, Verizon/Telus/xDSL could market their TVoverIP solutions with this kind of option. Basically I want everything VLC does.
  3) It has to work with 802.11a/b/g/n, Note 'with', doesn't need to support all of it if it gets at least one of the higher bandwidth channels. Support Bluetooth as well.
  4) It has to support 'homebrew', even if it's restricted to Java or Flash, in fact, give me flash 9 support with all buttons available, not this mouse-emu crud.
  5) And finally, support via a removable/replaceable component a cell network, basically a small upgrade that turns it into a cell phone, so you can use your bluetooth headset and use the device as a cell phone.
  6) Touch screen, I don't care if no game winds up using it, but a portable device needs to have one if it's going to go on the internet. The internet is mouse oriented.
  7) Add a video camera as an option (via USB), likewise GPS. These devices should be mountable to the psp so they don't break off the usb plug.
  8) Long battery life, it should last a minimum of 8 hours playing video, 30 hours playing audio. and games somewhere in between.
See the problem with current cell phones:
a) too much feature creep
b) horrible beyond horrible games, unusable internet
Problems with current PDA's
a) too much feature creep
b) horrible for playing games, subpar internet.

Problems with current PSP
a) Useless UMD drive
b) Useless web browser (likewise useless on ps3)
c) Clunky video support
d) which leaves just mp3 and pictures being the only usable parts outside games

Problems with the NDS:
a)small screen is not very useful for the web
b)isn't a cell phone.
c)no homebrew(well at least not without grey market copiers)

If I could get a device that does -everything- I would buy it, even at 800$ However one important thing prevents this:

-Theft-
I don't want to carry around a 800$ device because it paints a giant target on me for theft. In fact If I were robbed right now I'd lose a 700$ PDA, a 150$ DS Lite, 50$ play yan, 50$ SD card, a 100$ cell phone and probably 50$ in cash. I tend to leave the PDA at home because it's a very obvious target, where as the numerous people playing on their NDS's I've seen on transit are a not as very obvious target.

It's way cheaper to replace the NDS complete with play yan than it is to replace a PDA or a PSP. Hell the reason I use the playyan is specificly for this reason, if I ever lose it or it's stolen/broken I can just buy another one. Pity the playyan doesn't support 2GB+ cards. If I lost the PDA/PSP I wouldn't want to get another one. This is the same reason why I never upgraded my cell phone past the 'color screen cell phone' stage. It's much easier to replace a cell phone that is featureless than an all-in-one device that costs too much.

Oh the PSP should have a 'flip' cover so it can be stuffed in a pocket without scratching the hell out of the screen.

If I could get all that stuff above in a NDS form factor for 250$ I could justify carrying it around. Since that is unlikely to happen I'll not buy one, and I'll keep leaving my PDA at home and not doing anything requiring it. In fact really other than using the NDS as a mp3 player I've not really 'needed' the PDA for anything recently.

At least this is why I'm not buying one, it doesn't have the feature bloat that would make me want it, it's not the price target, and it doesn't replace all the crap I carry around already.

Re:Bail out now Sony! (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#18632545)

Ahme the second generation nokia ngage probably would have been the best device for your needs, unfortunately it bombed due to the fact that it got already a lousy reputation due to the first generation ngage devices which were really not too good. The second gen however is an amazing device.

Too little too late? (1)

astrokid (779104) | more than 7 years ago | (#18633269)

The new price is certainly enticing to people that were on the fence, however, I can't shake the feeling that this move is to preemptively combat one of the biggest releases for the DS in a while. Two versions of Pokemon are going to be released on April 22nd. I feel like this is the game that will sell the DS for that people that are still picking up the older GBA SP models.

It'll be very interesting to see the NPD sales for this month.

That being said, i'll wait for the next price drop to get one, can't wait to play older PS releases on it.

Untapped market (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 7 years ago | (#18633453)

What if Sony tried to gear the PSP to the gamer market instead?

Re:Untapped market (1)

1337W422102 (883430) | more than 7 years ago | (#18647685)

The gamers already have DSes.
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