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IP and tradmarks... again (1, Offtopic)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651677)

Blah.

This is getting really old.

fr1st p0st!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18651761)

FIRST [salon.com]

Re:IP and tradmarks... again (5, Interesting)

Tragek (772040) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651783)

To which I completely agree. It's about the fifth story I've read today on slashdot and other sources about intellectual property and licensing and copyright. And god, is ever saddening to see such a massive amount of resources and time and energy spent on those issues, rather than everything else that should be done.

Of course, then I have a cynical moment and think here I am writing a comment about a story about an IM client's name change, rather than rather really changing what matters in the world, like disease. It's these kind of moments when I wonder about why we do what we do.

Re:IP and tradmarks... again (5, Funny)

maxume (22995) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651969)

You can't change the world on an empty stomach, or something like that anyway.

Re:IP and tradmarks... again (2, Insightful)

Tragek (772040) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652109)

Oh, I know that, intimately. I'm not advocating we abandon Copyright,IP or anything. I just wish that less time would be spent on it, and more time on the development that leads to that IP and copyright.

Re:IP and tradmarks... again (1, Informative)

caffeinemessiah (918089) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652013)

PIDGIN is *NOT* a geeky reference to the RFC about carrier pidgeons. "PIDGIN" is a local dialect of English used in Hawaii Wiki [wikipedia.org] . I know because I just got back from a conference there. Hang loose, brah....

Re:IP and tradmarks... again (1, Flamebait)

ResidntGeek (772730) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652139)

Don't link Wikipedia pages without reading them first, dumbass. And, given the comment you've just posted, I'd advise you to be veeeeeeery careful whenever assuming you know something.

Re:IP and tradmarks... again (1)

jreddell (1083215) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652277)

Yeah... you should probably lay off of the caffeine, so you don't get owned like that. Pidgin is a combination of languages that gradually develops over time to facilitate communication between peoples that speak different languages (i.e. Creole, Taglish, etc.). You shouldn't pretend like you know what you're talking about because of a vacation you just took, it makes you look like a fool.
I do have to give you props there though for linking that wikipedia article. That gave me a good laugh, thanks.

It's funny because (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18651679)

IM-speak is a lot like a pidgin language.

Re:It's funny because (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651913)

I believe in the Isle of Man [wikipedia.org] (.im) they speak English(Brit.) and Manx [wikipedia.org] .

Powned him? (1, Funny)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651687)

Pidgeoned him!

Re:Powned him? (5, Informative)

grcumb (781340) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652041)

It's not Pigeon - it's 'Pidgin', which refers to a number of English-derived dialects spoken in Vanuatu, Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands in the South Pacific. The language is simple in construction and has a very limited vocabulary, but it can be quite poetic.

I speak Bislama, the Vanuatu version of the language, which contains elements of French as well as English. The syntax is very much like English (subject - verb - object), but its idiom is derived from the hundreds of local languages.

I don't know whether the team were aware of this when they chose the name, but Bislama and the other South Pacific Pidgins are spelled phonetically, which makes it really easy to understand. Example:

Mi wantem toktok long yu Means "I (me) want to talk to you."

This phonetic spelling makes it absolutely ideal for texting, because there are few if any of the crazy English spellings that stretch on forever without adding anything to the word - 'thought', for example, is simplified to 'ting'. When SMS was recently introduced into Vanuatu, even expat folks like myself found ourselves texting in Bislama, because it's more concise.

So with all that in mind, I'll simply say, "Mi ting se 'pidgin' hemi wan gudfala nem blong givim long kaen software olsem. Smol tingting blong mi nomo.'

Re:Powned him? (1)

dhasenan (758719) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652225)

'Pidgin' refers to a language arising from contact between several languages rather than branching nicely off a single language. Usually after a few generations they start calling it a creole, though the distinction is rather nebulous.

About Time (2, Funny)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651705)

I for one welcome our new pigeon overlords.

I for one.... (1)

catbutt (469582) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651923)

Thought the name "Gaim" was laim.

For one, it referred disproportionately to AIM.

I prefer pigeon. Kinda cute. Geeky reference to RFC 1149.

Re:I for one.... (1)

catbutt (469582) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651957)

(I meant "I prefer pidgen", not "pigeon")

Re:I for one.... (1)

jac89 (979421) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652133)

If you look on the Gaim (Pidgin) homepage http://gaim.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net] the name originally was 'GTK+ AOL Instant Messenger' as it was originally just used for AIM. Due to a dispute with AOL in this early stage of the projects life it was renamed to Gaim.

Re:About Time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18651929)

That's unfunny.

What's a Pidgin? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18651707)

Am I the only one who had to say the new name outloud about 3 times before I could actually say it?

Re:What's a Pidgin? (5, Informative)

Tragek (772040) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651729)

From wikipedia:

A pidgen, or contact language, is the name given to any language created, usually spontaneously, out of two or more languages as a means of communication between speakers of different tongues, and usually a simplified form of one of the languages. Pidgins have simplified grammars and few synonyms, serving as auxiliary contact languages. They are learned as second languages rather than natively.


The emphasis is mine, with relation to the project's aims in their name selection.

I think it's a good name, if a little weird to think of after years and years of gaim.

Re:What's a Pidgin? (5, Funny)

Eudial (590661) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651731)

Am I the only one who had to say the new name outloud about 3 times before I could actually say it?


Yes.

Re:What's a Pidgin? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18651935)

PIGOWNED!

Re:What's a Pidgin? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18651763)

Pigeon / Pidgeon / Pidgin all have the same pronunciation

Re:What's a Pidgin? (2, Informative)

be-fan (61476) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652027)

A pidgin language is one that's a mixture of other languages, often used in places colonized by other nations or in places were extensive trade makes contact between speakers of two languages common.

Seriously, you didn't know that?

Re:What's a Pidgin? (2, Insightful)

dysfunct (940221) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652201)

And am I the only one who pronounced it as "bitchin' IM"?

Tomorrow's headlines (5, Funny)

Eudial (590661) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651711)

Tomorrow's headlines:

"AOL Instant Messenger changes name to Idgin"

Give it up (mods) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18652105)

That is just f-in brilliant. Thanks for the laugh.

Uh oh! (2, Funny)

Funkcikle (630170) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651715)

Ixnay on the amenay angechay!

For those wondering what Pidgin means (3, Informative)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651717)

Wikipedia knows [wikipedia.org]

Once again, useful time and resources wasted on IP issues.

Re:For those wondering what Pidgin means (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18651919)

Second time I've seen the same sentiment "useful time and resource wasted on IP issues." And I wonder, why the fuck don't all these open source dudes make a point of not trying to walk around in the exact same footsteps as the ground breakers?

How hard would it have been to not call the project Gee - AIM(tm)?

Re:For those wondering what Pidgin means (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18652055)

There is no such thing as "Intellectual Property". It is propaganda. There are copyrights, patents, and trademarks. They are very different from each other. Anyone using the term "Intellectual Property" to group the three of them is either confused or is trying to mislead others.

Watch This speech [google.com] by Richard Stallman. Warning: it's 2 hours.

Careful (1)

Estanislao Martnez (203477) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652169)

No, Wikipedia there is giving you a collection of snippets of data of varying value. For example: that article implicitly claims that Haitian Creole developed from a previous pidgin. That's certainly a possibility, but it is far from certain.

Can't wait to see 2.0.0 (5, Insightful)

thephotoman (791574) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651721)

I've been playing around with the 2.0 tree of Gaim for a while now, and now that the legal issues are fixed, it'll be nice to finally see a stable release version of Gaim with a reasonable feature set. I don't care what it's called.

Also, AOL needs to go off and die. The previous sentence is nothing but pandering to the /. crowd.

Re:Can't wait to see 2.0.0 (4, Insightful)

oyenstikker (536040) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651799)

You do realize that if AOL goes of and dies then AIM will stop working, right?

Re:Can't wait to see 2.0.0 (1)

Cylix (55374) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651821)

Surely you jest!?!

Re:Can't wait to see 2.0.0 (1)

thephotoman (791574) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651865)

And good riddance to it! Then, we might see more Jabber uptake.

Re:Can't wait to see 2.0.0 (1)

Rosonowski (250492) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651931)

I think it's more likely that someone would buy up AOL and convert all the screennames to their own servers.

Re:Can't wait to see 2.0.0 (1)

zanglang (917799) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651979)

Maybe _a little_? Let's not forget Microsoft and Yahoo here, they're almost like the de facto standard for instant messaging software in a lot of non-US countries. We geeks can rattle our Open Standards flag all we want, but I think Jabber (and clients. and Google, of course) still has a long way to get Dick, Smith and Harry from sticking with what their friends use.

Re:Can't wait to see 2.0.0 (1)

Marcos Eliziario (969923) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652171)

Looks like everybody has a gmail account. Dick, Smith and Harry are not likely going to disable the gtalk widget on gmail web interface. By default everyone that has a gmail account and that exchanged emails with them will be listed as a gtalk contact. Voila: a new jabber user.

Re:Can't wait to see 2.0.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18652185)

Not likely. MSN would simply accomodate the remnant AIM users into its already massive network. Jabber's great and all, but merits of "OSS" and "itz not micro$$$oft KKK craaaap" are simply not going to make up for poor marketing and an overall weak userbase. To be perfectly honest with you, unless you're looking to chat up "x_sexyNeckBeard43_x", Jabber just isn't hip and intuitive enough for the everyman. A complete luddite will walk into MSN and pick it up with ease. Jabber fails to see the light of day outside of a very niche corporate segment.

It's, unfortunately, the painful truth.

Re:Can't wait to see 2.0.0 (4, Informative)

Darundal (891860) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652035)

Actually, worst case scenario, one of the many protocols gaim supports ends up not working. Ever.

Re:Can't wait to see 2.0.0 (1)

reub2000 (705806) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652067)

Good thing GAIM supports about a half-dozen protocols that aren't AIM. So I can keep on chatting with the same client.

Late April Fools? Please... (2, Interesting)

Chineseyes (691744) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651723)

Please let this be a Joke thats a terrible name.

Re:Late April Fools? Please... (4, Insightful)

644bd346996 (1012333) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651849)

No, it's a perfect name for such a product. They obviously know how the product is used. In fact, I'm rather surprised the name wasn't already taken.

Re:Late April Fools? Please... (5, Funny)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652237)

Actually, it's a good name for AOL's IM program. Because whenever I tried to use it, I get the feeling that the computer would waddle over and take a dump on my shoes.

Re:Late April Fools? Please... (1)

Lazarian (906722) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651937)

I'd hope for the same thing too. Pidgin??? Seriously, it sounds stupid. You'd think that they'd be able to come up with a better name than that. It doesn't have to be an acronym either.

The same goes for GIMP as well.

Re:Late April Fools? Please... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18651997)

Please let this be a Joke thats a terrible name.

I don't think its That bad you said The same thing about Firefox youll get Used to it

Re:Late April Fools? Please... (5, Insightful)

syousef (465911) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652019)

Please let this be a Joke thats a terrible name.

Sadly, that's always the way with open source. I use The Gimp at work. Could you pick a worse name? I mean honestly do you know how hard it is to explain why you're using "The Gimp" or what "The Gimp" is? Until they see it's a graphical editor most people who haven't heard of it think I'm joking or their ears prick up wondering if they're going to have to call HR. You have Photoshop, Paintshop pro, and other well named image editors then you have "The Gimp". I mean honestly who comes up with this shit? Once you get past the name, it's a damn capable product even if it's not a total Photoshop replacement.

Re:Late April Fools? Please... (5, Funny)

Profane MuthaFucka (574406) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652167)

Are you suggesting that my new mail program called "Hey Boss I Fucked Your Wife" should be renamed? It's a perfectly good name I think.

Re:Late April Fools? Please... (1)

hendridm (302246) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652057)

I think it was due for a new name. Gaim? It has nothing more to do with AIM than it does with the other IM protocols. In fact, I use Gaim for YIM and MSN... I don't even have an AIM account.

Although Pidgin sounds weird, I can imagine it is *very* difficult to find a name for something that isn't currently used. I guess I don't really care - I'll still happily use it :)

Whilst a shame... (1)

Smerity (714804) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651727)

Whilst a shame they had to change the project's name, the tenet of "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet" still holds. It remains one of the best IM programs available across platforms.
Good name change too! Reminiscent of Perl - small, simple and altered just enough to distinguish itself from a common noun.

Re:Whilst a shame... (2, Informative)

oyenstikker (536040) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651815)

Pidgin _is_ a noun.

Re:Whilst a shame... (4, Funny)

Exatron (124633) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651947)

"a rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

Not if they called it a stenchblossom.

Re:Whilst a shame... (0, Offtopic)

DustyDervish (1043314) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652001)

It's a terrible name. What is it with open source projects and lame names? Linux would be WAY more popular if geeks would just ditch the gibberish and release stuff that was easy and fun to say. Take Perl for example, it reminds geeks of a certain feminine part, so all they can do is blather on how great it is. "Real men code in Perl." "I'm a Perl master!" Etc, etc... See? Easy and fun to say, and your get to establish your geeky manliness by saying it. Now try to think if something clever to say about "Pidgin". Sucks huh?

Re:Whilst a shame... (1)

ConvertEJ__ (1084651) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652103)

Gaim was shorter >_>

AOL needs to crash and burn. End of story.

Re:Whilst a shame... (1)

thegrassyknowl (762218) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652199)

It remains one of the most widely ported IM packages across platforms. That doesn't mean it's less sucky than the official AIM (or other) clients.

I thought GAIM was a piece of poo.. What's with that fucked up away dialog box to tell you that your GAIM status is busy? I want GAIM to fuck off into the background when I am busy, not pop up a dialog telling me that and taking up valuable screen real-estate on my already cluttered desktop.

Gaim should have gone and got a job as a cheap asian street hooker a long time ago ("sucky sucky, free, free, I able to suck everyone")

The acronym seems good at least. (1)

Mr EdgEy (983285) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651757)

pIM? Heh. Seems strange that basically one letter can be trademarked though.

Re:The acronym seems good at least. (1)

rekkanoryo (676146) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652003)

The name is Pidgin, not Pidgin IM. Therefore PIM is inaccurate.

Watch out KOffice.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18652217)

Watch out KOffice*

*lameness filter, etc.

Damn Shame (5, Interesting)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651759)

I used to really love Gaim. But other messengers have begun to really surpass it.

Part of this apparently is due to legal problems with Gaim which no doubt discouraged the developers. Part of it is Google hiring the lead developer to jump ship and focus primarily on Google Talk.

However, it is time we had one universal standard for messages. You can have different clients with different features, however, users should have a universal address so you can message anyone from any network from any client.

Anyone recall separate independent email systems before one unified email standard?

I hope this new project begins full steam, but a big part of me is sad that between projects like Kopete, Gaim, Trillian, Miranda, etc. that we're dividing efforts instead of having one truly incredible messenger that works across all networks, supports all the features of each network (including full voice and video).

I'd gladly pay money for it. I'm sure many would. Then again, if we had a universal standard for messaging, everyone (Microsoft, AOL, Yahoo) could keep their clients, and everyone's networks would grow instantly, and we wouldn't even necessarily have to devote so much developer time to keeping networks so private, and trying to reverse engineer network standards.

Re:Damn Shame (2, Informative)

Constantine XVI (880691) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651841)

"Anyone recall separate independent email systems before one unified email standard?"
That's what Jabber was created for.
The Gai[esc]dw[i]Pidgin/Kopete/Miranda/Trillian split is mostly because they're designed for different platforms. Pidgin is GTK+(and GNOME by extension, though I run it on Windows), Kopete is KDE, Miranda is Windows, and Trillian needs to drop off the face of the earth (kidding, it's Windows, but proprietary, not much better than Gaim, and bloated to hell :)

libgaim (1)

drewness (85694) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651963)

Pidgin is GTK+(and GNOME by extension, though I run it on Windows)
Actually, a nice thing the Gaim people did late last year is split out the IM backends into libgaim, so while Pidgin will continue to be GTK+ based, they've written an ncurses version called gaim-text, and the Adium people (who used to create their own libgaim) use it as their backend too.

Re:Damn Shame (1)

rekkanoryo (676146) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652033)

Pidgin has never been a GNOME application, even when it was originally named Gaim. Sure, it uses GTK+, but that in itself does not make an application a GNOME application. I will grant you that an inordinate amount of focus has gone into making Pidgin play nice on GNOME with no similar effort spent on KDE or XFCE integration, but this again does not make Pidgin a GNOME app.

Huh? It exists. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18651861)

It's called Jabber [jabber.org] . (Hint - All the major clients support it and it's what Google Talk runs on.)

Re:Damn Shame (1)

AtlanticCarbon (760109) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651877)

What are these other (open-source) messengers that have surpassed it? I'd like to try them out.

Re:Damn Shame (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18651945)

Personally, I prefer Kopete.

Re:Damn Shame (5, Interesting)

malevolentjelly (1057140) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651917)

I whole-heartedly disagree with you, sir. There is absolutely no reason to use a lowest-common-denominator gui for a basic and functional program like gaim. Projects like Adium have taken things like libgaim and made them usable and beautiful and integrated. Coding a multi-platform GUI should never be a limiting factor in projects- it's much more intelligent, practical, and over-all better to just create a separate GUI for each popular system. I'm all for libgaim, but I think gaim as the every-OS IM client is just poor design practice.

What would be more intelligent is just making libgaim more OS agnostic and easy to use with GUI's coded in Objective-C or C#, etc... the open source community needs to get away from multi-platform omni-messes and embrace the style guides provided for various OS's.

Re:Damn Shame (2, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652053)

Then again, if we had a universal standard for messaging, everyone (Microsoft, AOL, Yahoo) could keep their clients, and everyone's networks would grow instantly,
Advertising.

If you have a universal standard, what reason is there for anyone to use one (official, ad-supported) client over another?

AOL wants to advertise to people on AIM, ditto for MSN, Yahoo & others.
The IM client & service is not free.
It is ad supported.

Re:Damn Shame (5, Informative)

rekkanoryo (676146) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652159)

Pidgin hasn't really been surpassed in its core focus--textual instant messaging. Yes, other clients are equals in many respects. Yes, some clients have integrated that fabled voice and video support that so many users seem to want. This doesn't really mean that any application is better than Pidgin or that Pidgin has fallen behind the other clients.

A unified instant messaging standard is the point of XMPP, which is more commonly known as Jabber. It is a completely open, standards-based specification using XML, which makes it flexible and extensible. Google Talk is helping XMPP gain popularity, but to an extent hiding some of the details from its users. For widespread acceptance, at some point the details have to be hidden, and Google Talk is at least doing a decent job of it.

Dividing effort is another issue entirely. Pidgin had long wished to finish its fabled Core/UI split that started way back at Gaim 0.60 (and its nine-month GTK+2-ification process between 0.59 and 0.60), and at the 2.0.0beta4 release finally accomplished this. The few revisions in Subversion that accomplished this were a complete disaster that could have been avoided had there been a bit more patience, but what's done is done. At any rate, libpurple exists now and its purpose is to make it easy to write alternative user interfaces. Enter Finch, the ncursesw-based console UI. If everyone trying to implement voice and video in other projects could come together and get a decent abstraction layer built into libpurple, any UI that wanted to could take advantage of libpurple functionality, thus reducing duplicated effort to the frontend that the user sees, which is a significant improvement over duplicating literally everything.

Next I'd like to address paying for Pidgin. In the past this was not possible for numerous reasons, including taxing and trusting individual people with the money. Now, however, when the infrastructure is in place, anyone who wants will be able to "pay" for Pidgin by donating to the project and the Instant Messaging Freedom Corporation. Just be patient a bit longer and such things will be in place so anyone who wishes to contribute money may do so.

Let me finish by coming back to my original point--Pidgin is extremely good at what it does, and has not fallen behind.

Re:Damn Shame (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18652219)

This is the same argument that people apply to Linux distros. I'll admit that it has some merits, but I'm sorry, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny:

between projects like Kopete, Gaim, Trillian, Miranda, etc. that we're dividing efforts instead of having one truly incredible messenger that works across all networks, supports all the features of each network
Reconsider: Between distros like Debian, OpenSuse, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc. we're dividing efforts instead of having one truly incredible Linux.

Let me ask, what would this "truly incredible" thing look like? To be honest, I think Gaim/Pidgin is pretty incredible. A bunch of people on this thread think that it's crap, "surpassed" by its competition. I like Gaim, he likes Kopete, she likes Miranda. Do you like Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora? How about KDE, Gnome, XFCE?

Variety and choice is an essential aspect of open source, one that draws many of us towards it, not away from it. The best part is that we're not really "wasting time" or "dividing efforts". The efforts of each developer, no matter which client he's developing, are being shared and can be viewed and used by "competing" developers. They can all share, while at the same time produce products that satisfy me. And you. And him.

Because ultimately, the same product won't satisfy us all.

april fools (2, Insightful)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651765)

this should have been posted on april first.

Are we sure this is real? (1)

bofkentucky (555107) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651767)

I'll let someone else do the first installs.

Re:Are we sure this is real? (2, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651791)

Very sure.

AOL gives away their services for free right now, mimicing Yahoo and Google, trying to get by on having a large network of users they can direct targeted advertisements at.

If people opt not to use AOL products and services, AOL loses money.

If the project has an obscure name, people are more likely to never hear of it, or pass it over.

GAIM sounds like an AIM replacement.

I nominate that we all say a big fuck you to AOL and forever refer to Pidgin as the Program Formerly Known as Gaim.

Seems reasonable... (3, Insightful)

ancientt (569920) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651805)

It seems reasonable that if your product is Product Sucks and you offer Product Sucks Messenger (PSM) and somebody else comes out with something that works like your product, only better and names it GNPSM (GPSM's Not PSM) then you'd have a reasonable complaint. It seems odd to me that this wasn't voluntarily changed years ago.

I personally have used both products and wouldn't use the "official" AOL client if I had any choice and in fact have never personally installed it on my computers. I've had the misfortune of using computers that had it foisted on them but sometimes its hard to convince people to switch when they already have something they "know how to use."

I'm sure the new name has wide approval and it's too late for suggestions, but I wish they'd gone with "Nonsucky Chat Client" instead.

I know it is coming so I'll head it off, yes your client is better for whatever reason you claim. Yes, I've used IRSSI, Zinc, XChat, Mozilla's whatever it was called and others. I like the client formerly known as Gaim because it was always easy to set up and easy to use and easy to explain.

Countless projects.. (1)

Mr EdgEy (983285) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651835)

Have names similar to what you suggest, think of things like FreeDOS...

good (1)

nanosquid (1074949) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651831)

Why should a successful multi-protocol open source project advertise an obsolete on-line service anyway?

News on sourceforge page (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18651847)

From http://gaim.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net] :

Many years ago when this project was first started, it was called "GTK+ AOL Instant Messenger." AOL naturally complained, and Mark Spencer changed the name to "Gaim." AOL was appeased, and no one really ever heard of it because there were very few users back then.

A few years later AOL trademarked "AIM," and started referring to their IM services using that name. They complained. The issue was brought up on Slashdot, and the Gaim developers at the time got some legal support. That legal support advised that the ongoing discussions with AOL be kept confidential until fully settled, and so it remained. The public thought the issue had gone away then. It sorta did, in that AOL stopped responding to Gaim's legal support for a while.

Our legal support has changed several times, and each group of lawyers have recommended silence & secrecy. Around the time of Gaim's first 2.0.0 beta, AOL came back into our lives in a very strong way, this time threatening to sue Sean.

This represents a clear pattern. AOL received more pushback than they expected, and would sort of let things stand for a while. Then they would threaten a different Gaim developer. Each time a new Gaim developer was threatened, we had to look at new legal support, to prevent a conflict of interest.

This process could not go on forever. As a result we ended up forming the Instant Messaging Freedom Corporation, and making it legally responsible for Gaim. We also had our new legal support work to create a real settlement with AOL that would get this issue dismissed from our lives forever.

Getting a settlement with AOL has taken FAR FAR longer than we would have ever guessed. On legal advice, we have refrained from any non-beta release during this process as a show of good faith, and to keep AOL from giving up on it. Again, on legal advice, we have also kept this information closely controlled.

At long last, I am pleased to announce that we have a signed settlement and can release our new version. There is one catch however: we have had to change the project's name.

After a long, and unfortunately secret debate (as we could not say why we were looking at a name change, we ended up just doing this ourselves), we settled on the name "Pidgin" for gaim itself, "libpurple" for libgaim (which, as of 2.0.0 beta6, exists), and "Finch" for gaim-text. Yes, the spelling of "Pidgin" is intentional, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin [wikipedia.org] .

Since so much is changing between the name and the nature of the 2.0.0 release itself, we decided to go ahead with something we have talked about doing for a while now. We have set up our own server, kindly donated by DVLabs. As a result our new home will be www.pidgin.im and developer.pidgin.im We, at least for now, will still be using SF's mirroring system for releases. However, the bug tracking will no longer be on SF, and we will be migrating the mailing lists at some point soon. Also, we have chosen to go with monotone for our revision control, rather than the SF cvs or svn.

In the last week or so, an upgrade to SF's infrastructure caused an old version of the gaim-cabal list to become briefly public. It has always been our intention to end-of-life this list and make its archives public once the settlement was signed. Fortunately, the legal process has concluded, allowing us to make a formal announcement now, instead of months from now.

I, and all of pidgin's development team have deeply hated the need to keep some portion of our work, decision making and discussion secret for a time. I sincerely apologize that as a result of this need, you all have had no chance to help us with it, and to provide feedback.

Now that the settlement is signed, we hope to have the final Pidgin 2.0.0 release late this week or early next.

We are going to release it with a 2.0.0 version number, and an API compatibility layer for plugin authors. The project has not changed; this is our 2.0.0 release, not some new program that requires new version numbering.

Death do gaim developers publically declared (1)

sofar (317980) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651867)


Quote pidgin.im: "Also, we have chosen to go with monotone for our revision control".

That's a clear notice to me that they do not want anyone checking out their source code and having people hack on it.

I once revived a gaim plugin and made it working again, only to be tremendously discouraged by the core gaim crowd (not to mention #gaim has been a worse flame-promoting hostile channel on freenode forever) in actually helping out.

This is a great step for all Open Source IM users I think: Gaim is dead. nobody will know Pidgin, perhaps now a *decent* IM client will arise that doesn't bring the poisoned atmosphere from the gaim crowd.

I'll drink to that.

Re:Death do gaim developers publically declared (0, Offtopic)

Tragek (772040) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651893)

(Non-cross platform plug)

It's called AdiumX [adiumx.com] , and it's easily the best IM client I've ever used (also, built off of libgaim (I mean, libpurple (easily the most disappointing name in all this name change))). Alas, it's only for OS X. If you ever pick up an OS X box, do yourself a favour, and pick it up.

Perfect Name (2, Interesting)

Terminal Saint (668751) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651871)

Looking at the comments so far it would appear the only thing keeping this from being a perfect name is ignorance...

Re:Perfect Name (1)

numbware (691928) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652069)

I agree. Having it be called Gaim was pretty stupid because it didn't only support AIM, but a whole bunch of other protocols. All they have to do now is change the icon from the AIM-ish one to something like a carrier pigeon (guessing that's where they got the name from).

Got to see it coming... (2, Insightful)

zanglang (917799) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651875)

After all that hoohah with Apple's "pods", Google and whatnot I think most of us have already been wondering at some point why Gaim is still keeping that name, especially since AOL isn't well-known as a conglomerate that plays well with this community... At least Gaim, the name, has had a good long run.

That being said, *Pidgin*? *LibPurple*? That sure sounds... odd. I wished they took up the chance to pick a really good name worthy of one of the best long-time open-source projects around. Now we have to face on onslaught of bird jokes the next time we're sincerely recommending instant messaging software to Linux newcomers. :/

Re:Got to see it coming... (1)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651949)

I wished they took up the chance to pick a really good name worthy of one of the best long-time open-source projects around. Now we have to face on onslaught of bird jokes the next time we're sincerely recommending instant messaging software to Linux newcomers.

Anyone who makes a bird joke would also make a "windows" joke. A pidgin is a slightly obscure but extremely well established term, and is PERFECT for an IM system.

I think I might just install it, and I've been pretty IM-adverse for a few years.

Re:Got to see it coming... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18652257)

Yeah, but at least you no longer have people saying "Gaim? More like GAYim!"

A much better name! (5, Insightful)

emblemparade (774653) | more than 7 years ago | (#18651901)

The disgusting legal issues notwithstanding, I have to say I'm very pleased with the change! I really hate all the cryptic acronyms so popular in the free software world. "Gaim," especially, was awkward and ugly. Pronounced like "game", is it? "Pidgin" is a terrific name. It immediately implies what the software does, and rolls nicely off the tongue. I'm also *really* happy with 2beta6 -- it was exactly what I needed to let me leave Windows, where I was dependent on Trillian for far too long. Pidgin supported Unicode correctly, which I needed, and there's a handy plugin that lets me read all my eight years worth of Trillian logs. I'm a very happy Ubuntu user now. As long as I have the stage: I'm sorry that the Pidgin team had to endure AOL's despicable treatment. Big kudos to them for sticking through and listening to their lawyers. I feel like they "took the bullet" for a lot of us who use free software and believe that engineering achievements should be accessible to anyone, period. Y'all deserve a nice big hug for your service and commitment to the free software world.

What's wrong with this guys? (2, Funny)

aldo.gs (985038) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652007)

Do they think this is some kind of GAIM?

Sad (1)

Vector7 (2410) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652017)

It's sad that AOL feels it necessary to harass developers of 3rd party clients. I don't know anyone who would use their service if they had to use the (absolutely terrible) official AIM client.

OTOH, the UI changes in Gaim 2.0 are so uniformly horrible that I'm deperate to find an alternative anyway. Combined with the name change, maybe the whole project will sink away into deserved obscurity. :)

shoots brah, dats da kine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18652023)

pidgin, I love how half the people posting in here have no idea what pidgin even is

i fo try undastand wat one "gaim" ees

i no tink tat they mean one flying bird fo the new name. i tink it fo mean local taalk

shoots
"808 state rocks"

Good name (-1, Troll)

be-fan (61476) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652061)

I like the name. It's simple, short, and (if you're not an uneducated rube) the reference makes perfect sense.

Seriously, Gaim was a terrible name. Nothing against homosexuals, but Gaim -> Gay IM?

Re:Good name (2, Insightful)

MisterSquid (231834) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652149)

Seriously, Gaim was a terrible name. Nothing against homosexuals, but Gaim -> Gay IM?

Your comment betrays antipathy toward homosexuality because you bring it up as a reason for a "terrible name." Regardless of your patronizing "tolerance," the complaint you imagine is meaningless because if you're hearing "Gaim" as "gaym" then should also hear "gamers" as "gaymers." I'm betting dollars to donuts you would never advance the argument that gamers is a "terrible" word, whatever you say about having "Nothing against homosexuals."

Re:Good name (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652187)

But it's pronounced gee-aim.

Homophobic (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18652079)

They were tired of the "Gay" in their name.

Wait. wait... (4, Funny)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652081)

does this mean it'll add, "Yah" at the end of all of my IMs?

I'm a nerd... (2, Funny)

Fortyseven (240736) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652155)

...I immediately thought of Voltron instead of a bird. Doh.

Re:I'm a nerd... (1)

Terminal Saint (668751) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652253)

The funny part is there are no birds involved...

"A pidgin, or contact language, is the name given to any language created, usually spontaneously, out of two or more languages as a means of communication between speakers of different tongues, and usually a simplified form of one of the languages. Pidgins have simplified grammars and few synonyms, serving as auxiliary contact languages. They are learned as second languages rather than natively."

Is this just a name change? (1)

jonwil (467024) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652165)

Or have there been other changes (either forced by AOL or done for other reasons)?

Re:Is this just a name change? (1)

ConvertEJ__ (1084651) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652231)

From what I read it's just a name change. AOL prevented the development team (kinda) from releasing anything but betas. You can get more information on what's been going on on the main GAIM Sourceforge page [sourceforge.net] .

AOL is as AOL does... (2, Insightful)

Azuma Hazuki (955769) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652229)

This is yet another reason AOL sucks. Their software sucks, their user support sucks, their users (with a few exceptions) and now their legal department sucks. Seriously, what the hell is the point of doing this, and why do it NOW, after Gaim's been around so long?

I do have to agree with the person who said #gaim is a hellhole though. I came in to ask a question about a segfaulting beta, got asked what distro I was using, replied "Gentoo," and was instantly kickbanned. The reason? "We don't like your kind here." And I'm not one of those ricing idiots who uses insane CFLAGS either. Now if only someone would write a simple GTK-based IM client, I would happily drop Gaim off by the side of the ditch like a hitchhiker with a massive case of BO.

Thanks Guys (0, Troll)

MasterOfMagic (151058) | more than 7 years ago | (#18652233)

This is a sad day. Yes, I'm sure version 2.0 will be great, and we'll see a lot of features, but it highlights how screwed up the legal system is. If you go to the main gaim page (http://gaim.sf.net/) and read about the history of gaim, you'll see that it was called gaim before AOL trademarked AIM. What sort of legal system allows you to steal legally like this? Does this mean I can trademark fAIM for "Fuck AOL Instant Messenger"? On that note:

AOL, fuck you. Seriously. You've done nothing but retard the Internet. Ever since the September that never ended, you have been nothing but a bunch of freeloading jerkoffs. I hope all of you die of ass cancer and we run out of pain killers. May your children grow up to be like the Menendez brothers. You are nothing but a much of monkey fucking suits puffing on cigars as you torch that which made you rich. I hope you all die in a fire and die of anal rape.

This is the first post on Slashdot where I'll probably be modded troll or flamebait, and I accept that. I just think that people who are angry should get a release from this too.

Again, fuck you, AOL.
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