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Fallout IP Sold to Bethesda Softworks

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the sweet-jumping-nuclear-radition dept.

Role Playing (Games) 174

In what I can only see as good news, the Fallout IP has been sold to Bethesda Softworks. A long, long time ago simoniker posted that Bethesda was licensing the IP from Interplay; as of earlier this month, they now own it lock, stock, and barrel. Gamasutra reports: "According to the filing, first spotted by Fallout fansite No Mutants Allowed, the purchase of the Fallout license and accompanying IP was settled on April 9th of this year, with final payment installments expected to be delivered by the third quarter of this year ... In an interesting twist, as part of the agreement Interplay now acts as a licensee of the IP as it continues to ramp up production on its own Fallout-themed massively multiplayer game, first announced in 2004 alongside Bethesda's sequel, and shown via internal documents as recently as December to have a projected $75 million dollar budget and launch date of 2010."

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As long as they make fallout 3 (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711085)

I'll be happy. Well, and make it a game worth playing.

Re:As long as they make fallout 3 (5, Informative)

Razed By TV (730353) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712453)

It's that second part that worries me. Let me direct you to a snippet of an interview with Peter Hines of Bethesda.

SPOnG: One of the things that crops up a lot in reviews and discussions of about Fallout is that a lot of the fans like the about Fallout humour. What does this mean to you?

Pete Hines: Well, Todd Howard (Executive Producer at Bethesda) has talked a little about this. We're not big fans of jokes... developers that try to tell jokes, it tends not to work very well. You know, the humour in Fallout 3 is that you can get a weapon and blow a guy to a bloody mess, then when you pull up your interface, you see a little smiling cartoon character holding his thumb up. Like that's funny... funny not in terms of jokes or winks at the camera and such...
The humor of Fallout is far more than just "a little smiling cartoon" telling you that you did a-okay with that SMG. It involves sarcasm, irony, coincidence, dark humor, and Monty Python references. Hines's answer suggests that they are going to stray far from the established norm, and not in a good way.

Just for the record, that part of the interview can be found here:
http://spong.com/detail/editorial.jsp?eid=10109516 &cid=&tid=&pid=&plid=&page=4 [spong.com]

Re:As long as they make fallout 3 (1)

Salamande (461392) | more than 7 years ago | (#18717985)

Pete Hines: Well, Todd Howard (Executive Producer at Bethesda) has talked a little about this. We're not big fans of jokes... developers that try to tell jokes, it tends not to work very well.
Well...isn't that what they hire professional writers for?

I've always thought that writing in games has been lagging behind the technology. There was kind of a golden age for a while there with the interactive fiction and whatnot, but things have declined lately. Bring in a pro, make that stuff sparkle. Don't leave it as an afterthought. Humor requires an especially deft hand.

And people wonder why there are so few genuinely funny games out there?

Re:As long as they make fallout 3 (1)

toolie (22684) | more than 7 years ago | (#18718873)

The humor of Fallout is far more than just "a little smiling cartoon" telling you that you did a-okay with that SMG. It involves sarcasm, irony, coincidence, dark humor, and Monty Python references.

I laughed every time I brought up the PDA thing (been far too long to remember the interface name) and would see 'TK-421' at the bottom right of the screen. That was awesome.

Re:As long as they make fallout 3 (1)

Zantetsuken (935350) | more than 7 years ago | (#18719283)

the pipboy...

Depressing (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18711185)

A fantastic IP ending up in the hands of such a crappy developer. I'm certain Pipboy is crying his eyes out right now.

Given Bethesda's miserable track record, any new Fallout games will now:

* Be mostly focused on the usual crap pc developers seem to live for, water effects and shiny metal armor on things

* Be obscenely buggy

* Run like crap - too busy making thing shiny and tweaking the water reflections to be bothered with all that messy and tedious rendering optimization stuff

* Use crappy middleware like Gamebryo because no one of any competence works at Bethesda

* Really,really long. And really,really boring

Farewell Fallout. You will be missed.

Re:Depressing (2, Insightful)

dan828 (753380) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711457)

Yeah, but you'll be able to pay real $$$ for really cool expansion items like horse armor and houses! The old games never had any of that!

Re:Depressing (1)

Kenoli (934612) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711545)

"In what I can only see as good news..."

What? Since when has Bethesda been perceived as being a good game developer?
When I see "Bethesda" on a box I think "Ehh. Bugs and mediocre gameplay."

I'm really curious as to what would make someone think this event is a good thing.

Re:Depressing (1)

Umbrae (866097) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711667)

..What? If I remember correctly (which I do, because I looked it up), Oblivion has been rated as one of the best games, consistently, since it's release. It's gameplay and storyline have garnered many awards, both from critics and the general populace.

Re:Depressing (1)

pureevilmatt (711216) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711773)

Oblivion + Fallout = S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Re:Depressing (1)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711795)

Correction: Oblivion + Fallout + Stolen Content from Other Games + Way Too Many Years = S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Re:"Stolen content" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18712765)

Yeah, because we all trust rumours that surface on april fools day...

Fool :P

Re:"Stolen content" (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18718301)

Thaat rumour has been verified by several people.

Re:Depressing (1)

Zantetsuken (935350) | more than 7 years ago | (#18719423)

STALKER doesn't even come close to fallout - ya sure its a post-apocalyptic world with smgs, sniper rifles, and rpgs - but thats not the huge deciding factor in what made Fallout 1+2 great - it was that you could melt the flesh off a person with a plasma rifle or blow out their ribcage in sadistically satisfying ways, and read a discription of it that "the cute little puppy was shot in the head for 50 pts - it's head is lying on the ground in a puddle of mush"

Re:Depressing (-1, Flamebait)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712457)

You seem to forget, "ratings" for games are not reflective of the quality of the game. Plenty of games out there get high ratings, *cough*S.T.A.L.K.E.R*cough*, but are actually bollox. My suspicion is that most game sites/mags get kickbacks to rate this horrid games higher than what they actually should. It's a sad day when utter crap like Oblivion is held in any esteem.

Re:Depressing (2, Insightful)

paganizer (566360) | more than 7 years ago | (#18714841)

Oblivion is very, very, very pretty. and not a bad game.
However, I just can't bring myself to play it. Morrowind has only slightly less pretty graphics, and is probably the best thing Bethesda ever did; Oblivion isn't nearly as playable, the AI & NPC interaction routines are amazingly, easily noticeably, worse. I just can't figure out WHY.... I mean, they had it. they knew how to do it right. Why didn't they?
My son plays the copy I bought. I figure after he's bored with it I'll turn him on to Morrowind.

Re:Depressing (1)

microTodd (240390) | more than 7 years ago | (#18718175)

I agree with you completely. I played Morrowing straight for two years. I cannot get into Oblivion, but yet I can't quite put my finger on why the game isn't as enjoyable.

I suspect it has something to do with the Xboxness, cause I had the same experience with Deus Ex/Deus Ex 2.

Re:Depressing (1, Insightful)

Nasarius (593729) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711861)

Bleh. Fallout 3 is apparently being developed by the Oblivion team. So I guess expect a dull, watered-down game system devoid of interesting choices that idiots will love because it's shiny.

Re:Depressing (2, Informative)

Cadallin (863437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711873)

And when I see "Bethesda" on the box, I think unrealized potential. I've played Bethesda games since Daggerfall (which I waited for years to see ship, and yes I keep going back, I'm a glutton for punishment) and they are always very impressive technically. Daggerfall was a technical demo that blew my mind. An entire expansive country that featured towns and cities and dungeons and thousands of NPCs. It was 3D (or what counted for 3D at the time, Doom style sprites with a 3d environment) They even released a patch so that enemies showed locational damage as you hit them with your weapons! It was incredible. Daggerfall was incredible it contained many more features than the sequels that followed, Morrowind and Oblivion.

However, in all of that, they neglected to make the game fun. The NPCs were completely bland. The cities were dull, lifeless, and all the same. The dungeons suffered from severe bugs in their generation routines such that they could be unexplorable (walls or stairs blocking doors). The Fallout Series, on the other hand, was a beautifully handcrafted world. There were fewer NPCs and the world was smaller, yes, but all of it was alive. Alive and interesing, unique.

Ultimately I see this union as a very poor match. The only thing I can imagine that would be worse is if it was announced that Wizards of the Coast had licensed Bethesda to make a "Planescape: Torment" sequel. (Thankfully, I think this is highly unlikely, not only was the game written to be very self contained, Wizards has all but retired the Planescape setting.)

Re:Depressing (2, Insightful)

sqlrob (173498) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712083)

Thankfully, I think this is highly unlikely, not only was the game written to be very self contained

Self-contained? Did you actually finish it? At least one of the endings could lead to a sequel.

Re:Depressing (1)

Cadallin (863437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712589)

Yes, I've finished it, multiple times. Which ending? You think it would make an interesting game to play the story of the Nameless one serving in the Blood War? Best I can tell, that was the canonical ending (Although I would argue it is NOT consistent with D&D cosmology, the dead who sell their souls to demons/devils generally end up as Lemures/Dretches which would be even more uninteresting)

Re:Depressing (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18711915)

Like our beloved Fallouts 1 & 2 weren't filled with bugs. Hell, I remember that Fallout 2 was filled with game-freezing crashes in lots of side quests, and one or two in main storyline quests. Admittedly, these were eventually patched, but still...

(With that said, the Bethesda of old wasn't too bad. T2029 was surprisingly fun, and I don't remember too many bugs)

Re:Depressing (3, Insightful)

Gunslinger47 (654093) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711807)

I suggest you learn more about the series before you complain about it jumping the shark. The PIPBoy's not going to do much crying since it's a computer. As for Vaultboy [falloutvault.com] , he suffered a painful death at the ends of (WTF) Chuck Ceuvas. Near his sorry end he was forced to sellout to fast food corporations and bowling allies [duckandcover.cx] (apparently) to pay for his addiction to anti-depressants. (he didn't spec. chem resistant)

The last Fallout game to be released, Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel [wikipedia.org] , was an expliotation film [wikipedia.org] turned video game. To quote the Wikipedia article:

Films made with little or no attention to quality or artistic merit but with an eye to a quick profit, usually via high-pressure sales and promotion techniques emphasizing some sensational aspect of the product.

If you are fan of the series, you should be rejoicing. Bethesda's involvement means that there might be hope of finally, finally getting a Fallout 3. When it is completed, it might not be the greatest game every released, but the team will have to work seriously damned hard to make it worse than BoS.

Re:Depressing (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712369)

The last Fallout game to be released, Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel , was an expliotation film turned video game. To quote the Wikipedia article:

Films made with little or no attention to quality or artistic merit but with an eye to a quick profit, usually via high-pressure sales and promotion techniques emphasizing some sensational aspect of the product.


High pressure sales or sensationalism over BOS? Nonsens, the game got very little promotion at all. It's an enjoyable Diablo clone using Snowblinds Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance engine.

Re:Depressing (1)

Gunslinger47 (654093) | more than 7 years ago | (#18713381)

"Usually". My emphasis was on the first half of that sentence. The little promotion that existed was sensationalist, however.

Re:Depressing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18712583)

So in other words, you have a POS computer that you haven't upgraded since 2001, and you couldn't play Oblivion without turning your settings all the way down. Now you're whining about it on /. and claiming that their take on Fallout is going to suck, when it's really just sour grapes on your part.

GG FTW.

Re:Depressing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18713305)

Mod parent up!

Re:Depressing (1)

PrescriptionWarning (932687) | more than 7 years ago | (#18717031)

"Kyle, you're being a Negative Nancy."

their games may not be perfect, but I'll be damned if I didn't enjoy playing Oblivion and Morrowind before it.

Fallout: Bugs (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18711543)

Lots and lots of bugs. It's what Bethsoft does best!

Farewell Fallout... (3, Insightful)

Murrdox (601048) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711637)

This is basically the death certificate for Fallout. We'll never see a Fallout 3 which the fans have been screaming for. Bethesda has a wonderful track record when it comes to their own Elder Scrolls game. They have a horrible track record for everything else. Their games are now (and will probably remain as such) X-Box 360 Games which are poorly ported to the PC. They have shown no desire for turn-based strategy games. They have so far refused to say whether or not Fallout 3 will be turn based or not, or whether or not it will use the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system that Fallout fans have grown to love. Star Trek: Legacy was a pathetic failure. They did a great job getting the voice-acting together, but then they threw half of the plot out the window. Just read some of the blogs of the writers for that game, and they've clearly said as much. The gameplay, the actual GAME that Star Trek fans had such high hopes for... was awful. Bethesda is going to give us Fallout 3... but it won't be the same game that we know and love. They'll convert it and change the gameplay so that they can mass produce it. They'll want to have it on the PC and all the consoles. They'll make it for the X-Box 360, and then do a terrible port of it to make a PC version. They won't make combat turn-based, because in spite of legions of screaming fans, turn based combat is too "niche" and won't appeal to the masses enough. Gone will be Fallout's mature content. Drugs, hookers, swearing? Gone. We'll get a watered down Fallout universe which is nice and PG-13 friendly. Remember, this was the company that took all the blood out of their own game, Oblivion, because they didn't want an M rating. Bethesda is going to give us a game. MAYBE it will be a good game. But it won't be Fallout 3. Unless they come out and say that they are making a turn-based combat role-playing game, it won't be Fallout 3. At best, it will be a bad spin-off, like the other forgotten Fallout titles that have emerged since Fallout 2. Actually, I thought that Fallout: Tactics was a pretty good game. If they drop the ball on this, they fully have the capacity to KILL the Fallout franchise once and for all. I'm still praying though. I really really really am. I hope everything I just said is completely false (Except for what I said about Star Trek Legacy, and Bethesda's habit of making awful PC ports. That's all true.)

Re:Farewell Fallout... (3, Informative)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712237)

They'll convert it and change the gameplay so that they can mass produce it. They'll want to have it on the PC and all the consoles.


Of course they'l want to mass produce it, they want to sell lots of copies and make money! Of course they'll want it on all the consoles, they want to sell lots of copies and make money.

They won't make combat turn-based, because in spite of legions of screaming fans, turn based combat is too "niche" and won't appeal to the masses enough.


Apparently the masses outnumber the rabid Fallout fans then. But I wouldn't call it niche, plenty of console RPG's are turn based.

Gone will be Fallout's mature content. Drugs, hookers, swearing? Gone. We'll get a watered down Fallout universe which is nice and PG-13 friendly. Remember, this was the company that took all the blood out of their own game, Oblivion, because they didn't want an M rating.


I have Fallout BOS for my PS2 and do you know what rating it has? M, for Blood and Gore, Strong Sexual Themes, Strong Language and Violence. One of the first characters you meet is a hooker.

As for Oblivion, doesn't it have an M rating, why yes, yes it does.

So going cross-platform won't prevent a Fallout game from having that M rating

Re:Farewell Fallout... (1, Insightful)

Danse (1026) | more than 7 years ago | (#18713061)

Of course they'l want to mass produce it, they want to sell lots of copies and make money! Of course they'll want it on all the consoles, they want to sell lots of copies and make money.

Which is one of the reasons that it will probably suck. With the focus on the consoles, the PC roots will be left behind and we'll end up with an Oblivion or Deus Ex 2 type of screwup with the entire interface being retarded and completely inappropriate for the PC. There will be all kinds of compromises made in the gameplay to facilitate the consoles and the mass-market focus. It won't be a Fallout game. It will be something that seems more like a game that is trying to immitate Fallout, but falling woefully short of the mark. I just don't believe that they can do the game justice with all of the conflicts of interest they're going to have to deal with.

Re:Farewell Fallout... (1)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 7 years ago | (#18714935)

It's a real shame they won't sink a few million dollars into making a game that 50 people will buy just to make you happy. If they did, I wouldn't have to read such tortured baseless rants.

Re:Farewell Fallout... (1)

Danse (1026) | more than 7 years ago | (#18717317)

It's a real shame they won't sink a few million dollars into making a game that 50 people will buy just to make you happy. If they did, I wouldn't have to read such tortured baseless rants.

Yes, because Fallout 1 & 2 were such crappy games that nobody bought them, right? Why would they ever want to create such a thing again? I mean why would they even buy the rights to create such garbage? Oh yeah, because you're wrong. :) If they don't want to make a Fallout game, then they should just go make something else. If they do want to make a Fallout game, then that's exactly what they should do. Otherwise we end up with another tortured license, like Shadowrun.

Re:Farewell Fallout... (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#18718317)

for such highly regarded games, they didn't sell very well which is one reason why Black Isle is no more. Though they had a rabid fanbase they were just a touch too niche as a developer.

Re:Farewell Fallout... (1)

ShadowsHawk (916454) | more than 7 years ago | (#18717333)

You're obviously not a PC gamer. The fact of the matter is that consoles are less complex and far less open than PCs are. You tend to get simplified control schemes and short levels. These are a direct result of the hardware limitations that have plagued consoles from the very start. I'm not saying consoles are without merit. I enjoy various genres (adventure, JRPG, action (PoP). On the other hand, a console simply can not produce a decent RTS, FPS or CRPG. The point is, as a console gamer, you are unable to understand the pain of a crappy ported sequel when the original was a masterpiece.

Re:Farewell Fallout... (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#18718455)

"Can not" isn't a good phrase to use, it's not that they can't especially these days because those limitations you talk about are pretty much gone. It's just that they don't. Kind of like how it would be possible to do a character based platformer for the PC but no one does. It's a stratijacket of a mindset that does no one any good. It would be nice to seem some strategy, RTS or american style RPG's on a console. I know it's possible to make the controls workable.with just a dual shock/sixaxis. These days they could even leave keyboard and mouse controls in for those who might want to play that way. But they just don't do it.

Re:Farewell Fallout... (1)

Agret (752467) | more than 7 years ago | (#18717509)

I have Fallout BOS for my PS2 and do you know what rating it has? M, for Blood and Gore, Strong Sexual Themes, Strong Language and Violence. One of the first characters you meet is a hooker.
Fallout BOS wasn't made by Bethesda Softworks so your comment has no significance other than you being wrong.

Re:Farewell Fallout... (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#18718507)

The parent was implying that going cross-platform/console on a game would render it incapable of having that M rating, and also stated Oblivion didn't have an M rating when it does. I proved him wrong. That was my point.

lol what (0, Flamebait)

DoctaWatson (38667) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712417)

Where to begin, where to begin...

First, there's plenty of blood in Oblivion. There's even an option you can set to make it have even more blood than before.

And Oblivion was rated M.

Star Trek: Legacy wasn't developed by Bethesda, it was developed by Mad Dog Studios and published by Bethesda.

Co-developing games for consoles and the PC (like they did with Oblivion) is not the same as developing a game for the console then porting it to the PC. Even Morrowind was developed as a PC game then ported to the X-Box.

Bethesda's "refusal" to tell the public about game mechanics is a direct result of the Fallout fanbase (namely NMA) having this twisted sense of entitlement that you're showing so well. With you guys, Bethesda is damned if they don't and damned if they do. I sometimes wonder if NMA et al. would be happier if no new Fallout game was being made, ever.

Ridiculous Fallout fans like to harp on the "it's not Fallout without turn-based combat", as though many other famous RPG series never made the jump from turn-based to realtime combat. Are you seriously going to tell me that Ultima 7 isn't a real Ultima because it has real time combat instead of turns?

You idiotic Fallout cultists seem to think that Bethesda is going to kill Fallout. I have news for you, Fallout is already dead, going on for nearly a decade. Bethesda is your only hope of seeing it come back to life. I suggest you come to terms with that.

Re:lol what (3, Insightful)

Murrdox (601048) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712653)

Oblivion was "re-rated" M retroactively because you could mod the game to include topless females. It wasn't because of the violence.

You make fun of me and call me an "idiotic Fallout cultist" because I love the game mechanics, and then tell me that I shouldn't be in love with them.

I'm sorry, but the game mechanics are part of the reason that the Fallout games were so excellent. It's wrong of me to love it for that reason? My desire to see the game mechanics I love continued in sequels is somehow wrong? If Bethesda re-made "Street Fighter 2" and turned it into a Final Fantasy type game, I would be equally upset, and I would say the same thing. "This is not a sequel to a Street Fighter game. It is a Street Fighter spin-off game."

You say "co-developing" Oblivion for the PC and for consoles. I say that when you look at the PC version of Oblivion, it is obvious that they designed the game for the console, plain and simple, and did very little to scale the game upwards to the PC. The simple fact that you cannot map any keyboard commands beyond what a game controller can handle makes this self-evident. I love Oblivion, but only after I've installed 3 mods that "fix" the PC version. I am glad they made a PC version of the game. However, they did a poor job of it.

I repeat LOL WHAT (1)

DoctaWatson (38667) | more than 7 years ago | (#18714303)

Game mechanics are what made Fallout great? Here I was thinking it was the storytelling, dialogue and setting that made Fallout great. Even for its time, Fallout had simplistic turn-based combat, terrible AI, and a horribly unbalanced skill system.

The ability to re-map keys doesn't make anything "self-evident" about Oblivion's development. Your precious Fallout didn't include the ability to re-map keys, and I doubt you'll be arguing that it was originally developed for a console. I'll give you that cross-platform development may lead to compromises, but the outright paranoia and hostility exhibited by the Fallout fan community is nothing but FUD.

Re:I repeat LOL WHAT (1)

jonaac (763147) | more than 7 years ago | (#18715823)

"Bethesda's "refusal" to tell the public about game mechanics is a direct result of the Fallout fanbase (namely NMA) having this twisted sense of entitlement that you're showing so well" False. A complete lie, actually, they never release info about their games until they are ready, it's something they always do, and this is no exception. for someone that attacks Fallout fans as hostile, stupid paranoids you really should be less paranoid yourself.

Re:lol what (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 7 years ago | (#18714399)

What three mods are those? It sounds like you have a lot of the same problems with oblivion that I do.

Re:lol what (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18716191)

At a guess he's probably talking about BTmod or maybe WZ Inventory which both make the UI much better, links to them are below:

http://www.tessource.net/files/file.php?id=9937 [tessource.net]
http://btmod.beider.org/ [beider.org]

Re:Farewell Fallout... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18714539)

They'll want to have it on the PC and all the consoles. They'll make it for the X-Box 360, and then do a terrible port of it to make a PC version.

For those of you who remember, this procedure - dumbing down a sequel so that it can be played on a console - is the same thing that killed that other fantastic RPG, Deus Ex.

Re:Farewell Fallout... (1)

Bodrius (191265) | more than 7 years ago | (#18715527)

Not really.

What killed Deus Ex 2 was mediocre storytelling compared with the original, and lots of hype and unfulfillable expectations.

I'm a big fan of Deus Ex, and was as disappointed as anyone on Deus Ex 2, but the simplified interface did not make it a poor game... just like the messy interface did not hurt Deus Ex that much either.

Dumbed-down? Perhaps.
But Deus Ex would have been awesome on a console with that same interface, and Deus Ex 2 would have been equally lame with the original's interface and joys of inventory management, played by a few PC gamers.

Re:Farewell Fallout... (2)

Das Modell (969371) | more than 7 years ago | (#18716565)

I'm going to make the radical decision of having no opinion about the matter until we see screenshots and get more details about the game.

Re:Farewell Fallout... (1)

TheBlackSwordsman (870838) | more than 7 years ago | (#18717595)

I couldn't agree with you more. Zonk needs to be beaten over the head with a cluestick if he thinks the sale of the Fallout IP to Bethesda is somehow a good thing. Fallout 3, if it ever gets released, is most likely going to be "Oblivion with guns". And for people like me who think Oblivion sucks, that's about the worst thing one could imagine.


Oh, and I liked Fallout Tactics too. Underrated game.

Re:Farewell Fallout... (1)

knivesx11 (1085179) | more than 7 years ago | (#18718473)

Then what do you want let's face it a top down isometric tactical rpg is not going to sell well in todays market. A FPSRPG is just what everyone has been clamoring for. Besides if you dont like it don't play the game I loved the fallout series from the begining except Brother of Steel. Can you really tell me that FO3 is going to be worse than that POS game. Atleast its something worth playing and the best part of fallout will still be there, the atmosphere. It wasn't the special system whish will probably remain intact that made fallout great, nor was it turn based combat. People liked fallout because it had a amazing atmosphere that sucked gamers in, the same reason people liked Morrowind or Baldurs Gate. As long as bethesda doesnt screw up and deliver a half-assed product which i have no reason to believe they will, we can all rest a night knowing that it will be a very good game. It may not be the game your itching to play but for one more chance to enter the wasteland I'm willing to wait and see what kind of game Bethesda produces, and frankly if it is a oblivion style game more power to them.

Two games? (4, Funny)

EvilCabbage (589836) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711673)

So we get Fallout 3 *and* a Fallout MMORPG?

Should I file for that divorce now or later?

Re:Two games? (4, Funny)

FunWithKnives (775464) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712285)

Funnily enough, in '98, my girlfriend actually broke up with me because I spent every waking hour playing Fallout II, and wouldn't even stop long enough to answer the phone when she called.

And the thing is, it really was that good of a game.

Re:Two games? (2, Interesting)

DrMrLordX (559371) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712609)

It had much-improved combat and character development (with respect to stats, perks, and skills) than Fallout 1, but I think they really messed up the setting in Fallout 2. New Reno was pretty stupid except maybe for the Bishops and their role in the Vault City/NCR conflict. San Francisco was totally underdeveloped and obviously one of the most rushed parts of the game. The Hubologists were, overall, moronic. No matter how much fun it was to wax that lot, it's pretty obvious that they were sort of a joke "bad guy" faction thrown in as a foil to the Shi, when they completely glossed over internal strife within the Shi themselves by allowing you to settle the LoPan/Dragon dispute in a lame martial arts contest. The Enclave itself delved into biased political rhetoric mostly absent from Fallout 1.

Many of the endings are screwed up even after the 1.2 patch, and there are still some game-breaking bugs with delayed time-based effects and changing areas; setting dynamite and plastic explosive charges and then switching areas can cause the game to crash when the explosives finally detonate. Sometimes. Maybe.

Overall, the setting suffered under Urquhart's direction. Fallout 2 was much longer, which was nice, but it just didn't feel right in a lot of spots, and the entire design team chickened out when they decided to disallow playing Fallout 2 with Fallout characters. In fact, the entire plot behind Fallout 2 was influenced by that decision. They had to come up with a plausible reason why the original Vault Dweller couldn't be the main character (or even a companion) in Fallout 2, hence the need for Arroyo.

As good as Fallout 2 was in some areas, all I ever really wanted was the ability to play more Fallout. Fallout 2 only gave me some of that. I have no real reason to believe that Fallout 3 will be any worse, though there is a serious risk that it may wind up being distinctly humorless and wind up being a Mad Max clone of some kind. If we're lucky, the devs will go back to Wasteland and work from that perspective.

Re:Two games? (1)

the_ed_dawg (596318) | more than 7 years ago | (#18717059)

My wife and I almost didn't make it because of Fallout 2. I would get up in the morning at 7:30, work all day, hang out with her (then my girlfriend) until around 10:30, and go back to my dorm room to play Fallout 2 until 3:30 AM. Her taking a weekend trip to her parents' house, allowing me to play the final 35 hours was the only reason we made it. :)

Re:Two games? (1)

b laurienti (1056338) | more than 7 years ago | (#18718409)

I dumped my girlfriend at the time before I got Fallout 2, I dumped her because I didn't have enough time for school, work, and Quake 2... Something had to go, and it sure as hell wasn't going to be my beloved Quake 2!

Then Fallout 2 came out and I quit my job:)

Re:Two games? (1)

toddhunter (659837) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712679)

Should I file for that divorce now or later?
Have no fear. If history is any guide Fallout 3 will now be pretty, very long and completely and utterly boring .

Meh (4, Informative)

ZorbaTHut (126196) | more than 7 years ago | (#18711947)

I see this as terrible news, myself.

I realize that Oblivion is a very popular game that a lot of people like. But I just can't get into it. If anything, it's too open-ended - it feels like someone sat down, made a universe, took a week to throw a plotline into it, and then spent a year or two making side quests. I never feel like I'm having a real impact in the world, and I feel like most of the world is in stasis waiting for me to walk by and solve their problems.

I wouldn't even mind all of that, except that Bethesda appears to have no sense of which features are important and which are not. Sure, you can become a vampire. That's great and all. But why is my inventory so hard to navigate? I could do without becoming a vampire if they'd just make the interface not suck. (Yes, I realize there are now third-party mods for this. A game shouldn't need to be modded to be playable.) At least they're getting better - some of the bugs and glitches in Morrowind were hilarious. It's like nobody ever bothered to sit down and play the game, they just decided to put every awesome feature possible in it without any thought to polish.

I think that, fundamentally, Bethesda needs to sit down and make an MMORPG. Their design style is practically ideally suited for it, and once they see what horrible problems their "game balancing" creates, they might learn how to balance a damn game for once. But I have to say that I'm not excited in the least about what Bethesda does anymore, and I'm deeply saddened that they now own the Fallout series.

Re:Meh (1)

scjazz (906108) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712357)

This has got to be some sort of sick joke. I just re-installed Fallout I and II and started playing again. Now those morons at Bethesda are going to totally hose a game I love so much I installed it and am playing it again 10 years later!

Re:Meh (2, Informative)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 7 years ago | (#18713569)

Fallout II and Deus Ex are the two games that I re-play every couple of years, all the way through.

Must replay games (1)

Clock Nova (549733) | more than 7 years ago | (#18716791)

Same here. Add to that the Baldur's Gate saga, Ultima VII parts 1&2, and Star Control 2 and you've got my list of never-get-old, must replay games. Probably a few more.

Re:Meh (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712939)

"I realize that Oblivion is a very popular game that a lot of people like. But I just can't get into it. If anything, it's too open-ended"

You're in good company, a lot of really crappy games (read: so easy even a retard could play it) end up becoming hits, if anything it's what happens to many good products when the market was smaller and the quality was higher, it becomes commoditized to the lowest common denominator. Read : Entertainment for hapless morons.

I'm sad to say many "successful" games are bad games that have *regressed* the gains made by many previous games... MMO's regressed all the accomplishments of console and PC RPGS all rolled into one big steaming pile of crap.

MMO's are the worst offenders, they take an RPG and break everything to extend the amount of time you play the game (read: travelling = no town portal, etc) and make it simply tedious and time consuming before you get to the *fun parts* of the game, you'll have 5-10+ minutes travelling places for every few minutes of fun. I refer to most MMO's as "navigation simulators", since over 50% of the time in the game is spent simply navigating and not doing anything else. It sucks and I hope the game industry has real hard times soon, because many in the industry truly deserve it.

Re:Meh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18718855)

You're right, particularly regarding the interface. It sucks! I think the main reason it sucks is because they needed an interface that would work on the consoles as well. When you look a lot of the elements (spell casting interface comes to mind) they feel strongly designed for console use.

Fourth Floor: Tools, Guns, Keys to Superweapons (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18712127)

I have a great deal of misgivings on this. I really don't think Bethesda should be in the business of making RPG's. Their games have been [in my eyes] a downward slide since Daggerfall. Morrowind had fantastic atmosphere, but the combat and most importantly the Quests and NPC's, were incredibly boring and dull. Oblivion vastly improved the graphics and combat, but the NPC's actually got worse: They retained their wiki-like dialogue from Morrowind, except with fewer things to talk about. What they could talk about was vastly reduced in length, to keep voice-overs from getting too large, and each race only had one or two voice actors, so you get things like a beggar talking like a nobleman and then going back to talking like a beggar.

Furthermore, the atmosphere and setting took a nosedive. Lore was completely thrown out; what made Morrowind so exotic and alien was gone. Instead they went with a classical fairytale look. [Cyrodiil is supposed to be a jungle.] But by far the worst thing they did with Oblivion was the level scaling. One of the biggest draws of Morrowind was to go exploring in dungeons for valuables, there's absolutely no point to this in Oblivion. Everything is scaled to your level. It doesn't matter where you go or what you do; any treasure you find is scaled to your level, almost all the monsters are scaled to your level. There's no challenge, no mystery, no reward. You might break into a rich nobleman's house, but it doesn't matter if you pick the level 90 lock on his treasure chest, because all you're going to get are a couple gold coins and maybe a rusty dagger.

If this continues, Fallout 3 isn't even going to be an RPG. Oh, they're going to call it one, for sure. But I think the game, like Morrowind did from Daggerfall, and Oblivion from Morrowind, will slip so far away from the RPG genre, that you'll barely even be able to call it an RPG. [Unless of course, you consider and RPG as just 'playing a role'.] I really get the feeling it'll be something like Diablo, but with guns.

Re:Fourth Floor: Tools, Guns, Keys to Superweapons (1)

DrMrLordX (559371) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712429)

Psst, most of the loot has been level-scaled since Daggerfall (if not Arena). There were a few static loot items in both Morrowind and Oblivion, though it was much easier to stumble upon static loot quest rewards in Morrowind than it was in Oblivion (Oblivion had a habit of locking down quest dungeons with unpickable locks).

Honestly, the dungeon design in Morrowind was horrid. Lavatube after lavatube, ugh. Also keep in mind that the setting in Oblivion might have been a little messed-up, but I think they were trying to imitate the general feel of Daggerfall's setting (which they did quite well). I could also see most of the outdoor settings in Oblivion being a sub-tropical rainforest region. It does get fairly lush in some spots.

Re:Fourth Floor: Tools, Guns, Keys to Superweapons (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 7 years ago | (#18713513)

Funny, I thought that Morrowind's dungeon design was one of the things that was better than Oblivion.

I found the hole-in-the-ground ruins in Oblivion (can't remember the name, been too long, the ones with the spiral stairs going down) to be mind-numbingly dull, and don't even get me started on Oblivion Gate dungeons. There were one or two really good ones (the ruins under the palace were superb) but nothing like the dozens of individual dungeons that I can still recall, years later, from Morrowind. Every time I found Dwemer ruins in Morrowind, I went in immediately, knowing that I was in for a treat; every time I found a dungeon of any kind in Oblivion, I stayed the hell away, unless I had to go in for a quest, and even then I might just not do the quest if it required me to go in those (Aelid? was that the name?) damned white ruins. I mean, why bother when they practically throw powerful enchanted weapons at you starting when you hit level 5, and there's only leveled loot in the dungeons anyway? Which brings up another issue: does anyone even bother with enchanting when they play Oblivion? I can't see the point.

Re:Fourth Floor: Tools, Guns, Keys to Superweapons (1)

Talgrath (1061686) | more than 7 years ago | (#18714261)

Wow, you're silly. Straight damage bonuses (ie, the ones without any sort of element) can make any weapon a destructive force of great power. Using the more powerful stones, you can give your stats huge boosts (I had something ridiculous, 200 strength or something on one character) and constant buffs in general are just nice.

Re:Fourth Floor: Tools, Guns, Keys to Superweapons (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 7 years ago | (#18715001)

Meh, I never felt like I had inadequate weapons in that game, unlike Morrowind, where one could feel that way for most of the game if one did not go out of the way to get some nice stuff and/or enchant things.

Also, got some obscene bonuses from rings that are apparently commonplace in Cyrrodil. *shrug*

Re:Fourth Floor: Tools, Guns, Keys to Superweapons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18713361)

Heh, I doubt one in 200 /.'ers are going to get the Ladytron reference...

$75 million dollar budget??? (3, Funny)

j00r0m4nc3r (959816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712465)

Holy fuck.

Interplay to make MMORPG, not Bethesda (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18712541)

The only way i can undestand the following is that even though Interplay sold the licence they still have the right to the MMORPG and they will be making it, not Bethedsa, who will be making fallout 3.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/ [nma-fallout.com]

        Under the License Back the Company obtained an exclusive license, under certain conditions, to use the IP for the purpose of developing an Interplay branded Fallout Massively Multiplayer Online Game ("MMOG").

Interplay pledges to obtain funding for and start the development of the MMOG within two years and to successfully launch it within six (which entails securing the continual patronage of a minimum of 10,000 paying subscribers), or else forfeit this license. Some additional excerpts:

        2.6 RESERVATION OF RIGHTS. Any and all rights not explicitly granted to Interplay hereunder are reserved by Bethesda.

        5.3.2 Interplay shall not offer or provide any products or services whose nature or quality does not comply with the quality standards of Bethesda.

        7.0 PAYMENT OF ROYALTIES. Interplay agrees to pay Bethesda a Royalty of twelve percent (12%) of the Net Cash Receipts derived from the sale and distribution of the FALLOUT MMOG, including sales of subscription fees or access fees to the FALLOUT MMOG or any other revenues generated by the FALLOUT MMOG, in the Territory during each calendar quarter following the commercial launch of the FALLOUT MMOG.

Gonna give this one a wait and see (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18712885)

I personally am going to wait and see. I have no problem with someone other than Interplay taking this on. The major reason I say this is because the original Fallout was a game I dreaded. I loved Wasteland and I was like, shit, they(The same company that made a bunch of crappy star trek games and a bunch of shit that is not worth the media it was put on) will not make a game as fun as that. Well they did. So I think I'll give Bethesda a try on this one.

Good news? (1)

crossmr (957846) | more than 7 years ago | (#18712955)

Did you snort cocaine before writing this? The only good news that could have come about fallout was that interplay had pulled the rights and was locking them away until a developer worthy of them showed up. Fallout will not survive the Bethesda treatment.

Re:Good news? (1)

slaida1 (412260) | more than 7 years ago | (#18715307)

Cheer up. It's only the usual post-apocalyptic survival story but with good writing. Anyone could do same without Fallout IP.

See, almost all funny things in Fallout were references to other entertainment: Monty Python, Star Trek, The Godfather, Mike Tyson, Full Metal Jacket, etc. It's the standard for funnay for dummies: quick refrences here and there that need only extensive knowledge of contemporary popular culture but no.. braiinss!

Huh huh huh, I said "braiiinss!" like those zombies in that one movie.

I liked Fallout but nevertheless noticed all the stupid simple references that made me laugh and at the same time hate myself and everybody else who think that kind of funny has future. Because it's true: we are simple, stupid beings. Easily amused.

Bethesda != Crap (5, Insightful)

SageinaRage (966293) | more than 7 years ago | (#18713827)

You'd think that Bethesda had raped everyone's dog the way people are reacting to this news. I would have thought Slashdot to be a little more open minded and thoughtful than NMA.

Just because you didn't like Elder Scrolls doesn't mean Fallout will be bad.

Just because they made Elder Scrolls doesn't mean Fallout will be LIKE Elder Scrolls.

If you don't want Bethesday to make it - who the hell DO you want? Should the IP just sit unused until everyone forgets about it? Should we let the next generation of gamer's only impresssions of it be the Interplay MMO? At least wait until you play a demo or something before you start screaming bloody murder.

Re:Bethesda != Crap (1)

AlexMax2742 (602517) | more than 7 years ago | (#18713883)

That's unfortuniatly pretty much what every Fallout fan wants.

I've seen a lot of fan communities, and Fallout lovers are undoubtedly the worst of the lot. Yeah, after Brotherhood of Steel some of it might be justified, but personally, I think BS makes awesome, if flawed, games. Besides, if Fallout 3 gets the level of mod support that the TES games have gotten, the Fallout community can simply mod in or out anything they feel like.

Re:Bethesda != Crap (1)

jonaac (763147) | more than 7 years ago | (#18715797)

"I would have thought Slashdot to be a little more open minded and thoughtful than NMA." Whenever you read something you disagree the others become close minded and dumb? That's not how things work, is it? And I worked at NMA, it has times of too much hostility and not enough focus, but overall I don't get your surprise, it's really a place for fans, and fans of that series tend to have similar views everywhere, there's an history that molded us into the various views that are expressed here and on the fansites. Nothing really surprising about that...

Re:Bethesda != Crap (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18714113)

Should the IP just sit unused until everyone forgets about it?
Preferably? Yes.

Re:Bethesda != Crap (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#18714801)

You'd think that Bethesda had raped everyone's dog the way people are reacting to this news.

Well, it's like being a tolkien fan and finding out Micheal Bay is directing the trilogy. It might be fun, but it's really far from what you wanted.

Re:Bethesda != Crap (1)

ichigo 2.0 (900288) | more than 7 years ago | (#18718369)

Or maybe it's a bit like being a Tolkien fan and finding out that Peter Jackson is directing the film trilogy? Before the first film I don't think many would have considered him to be the right person for the job (I guess some people still don't think so).

Re:Bethesda != Crap (1)

FishWithAHammer (957772) | more than 7 years ago | (#18715709)

If you don't want Bethesday to make it - who the hell DO you want?

If I can't have Leonard Boyarsky and Tim Cain? I'd take Warren Spector.

Re:Bethesda != Crap (1)

jpietrzak (143114) | more than 7 years ago | (#18720155)

If you don't want Bethesday to make it - who the hell DO you want? Should the IP just sit unused until everyone forgets about it?
And what would be wrong with that? Do you believe that, because the original game was so good, the IP should be pushed more? Just because somebody can come along and use that IP and create a new game in the same fantasy world, or with the same game mechanics, there's no guarantee that you'll get another great game. In fact, given the average quality of sequels, I would say it argues _against_ the next Fallout being any good. I would argue that Fallout would be better remembered now if it hadn't had multiple sequels of continually declining quality.

There's nothing wrong with leaving Fallout on the shelf, and letting game creators work on more original stuff.

(For example, consider the upcoming game "Bioshock"; it is essentially a sequel to the System Shock series, using a similar game engine and strucure; but the folks creating it did not have access to any of the System Shock IP. As such, they had to invent a new world for it, and I think the game has actually benefitted from this.)

--John

The problem with Bethesda. (3, Insightful)

MaWeiTao (908546) | more than 7 years ago | (#18714081)

I realize some people love Oblivion but I think Oblivion epitomizes what's wrong with PC gaming. It's a fabulous tech demo but otherwise lacking real substance and style. Bethesda seemed to be so obsessed with creating a photo-realistic world that they've sucked the life and art out of the game. I have to admit that those landscapes look phenomenal. But then you walk up to any NPC and they look goofy. Monsters look like claymation and humans look like second-rate actors from some crappy fantasy movie.

I haven't seen a single NPC from Oblivion or any of the expansions that doesn't look goofy. They don't look like people who would inhabit a true fantasy world. They don't have battle-hardened bodies, some even have a chin fat like they've eaten one too many pop tarts. Many look like they probably Bethesda employees complete with the look of amusement at the fact that they're going to be featured in a game.

The tech demo feel never leaves me, what with the obsessive use of texture mapping. Almost everything in Oblivion has this lumpy wet look. It feels like it's there to impress the viewer as opposed to actually adding substance to the game.

Then there's the ridiculous gameplay mechanic of enemies scaling to the player's level. Doesn't that defeat the whole point of leveling up in an RPG? It seems like an ill-conceived solution to the leveling problems encountered in Morrowind. I'm inevitably left with the impression that the developers didn't spend much time thinking about gameplay.

Then there's the performance aspect. Oblivion is one of those games that can make a 1 to 2 year old machine feel obsolete. Buy a console and performance isn't even an issue. There's comfort in knowing that not only will the system handle any game designed for it but the games will almost certainly improve throughout that system's lifespan. Not so with PCs. I can't help but think this alienates many PC gamers. It alienates me and I much prefer PC gaming over console gaming.

But Bethesda like other PC developers are obsessed with pushing the limits of hardware. So gamers get stuck with the same old genres with not much to look for but increasingly realistic graphics with little style. World of Warcraft doesn't have anywhere near the graphical sophistication of Oblivion, but I think it's far more entertaining to look it because it has such a strong sense of character. I'd argue that a single screenshot of the most recent Final Fantasy game has more creative style than all of Oblivion, even if Oblivion is more impressive technically. But I just don't feel like there's a real sense of creativity.

I didn't really intend on getting on that sort of rant about Oblivion. But I think it illustrates what I expect from any new Fallout game. I expect Bethesda to apply the Oblivion approach to Fallout. It's going to be another lifeless tech demo that wont run well on anything but the latest hardware.

Re:The problem with Bethesda. (1)

KermodeBear (738243) | more than 7 years ago | (#18714507)

hey don't look like people who would inhabit a true fantasy world. They don't have battle-hardened bodies, some even have a chin fat like they've eaten one too many pop tarts.
I agree, network administrators don't belong in a fantasy setting.

Seriously, though. Not everybody, in any setting, should be a bronzed, buff bulldozer. People aren't the same - some are in good shape, but some are fat. Some are thin, too. Some are balding, or are even completely bald. Believe it or not, but not everyone is the same height, either.

Even a fantasy world needs the fat and lazy aristocrat, bureaucrat, or merchant.

Open request to Bethesda re fallout (4, Insightful)

MikShapi (681808) | more than 7 years ago | (#18714559)

1. Game balance: PLEASE, oh PRETTY PLEASE, make the game (monsters, items) not level up with the game.

I realize it's a seriously cheaper solution than paying a group of people play the game many times to find the fine line between laughably easy (and thus not fun) and impossibly hard (frustrating and thus not fun), with properly controlling player's access to powerful items and monsters in an open-ended world. It's the ultimate challenge for someone who makes an RPG. Your choice in Oblivion did not sidestep the issue. It FAILED the issue. The game may have been fun to people who play it with a side-quest tick-list, not really caring what comes between tick and tick, but your core crowd, both oblivion-side and fallout-side, will be the people who diligently explore every nook and cranny of the virtual world, expecting to be rewarded by some meaningful (read: NOT scaled and otherwise easily-attainable) item that was scaled to their level anyway and could have thus been found in any easily-accessible container. You have done this in some places in Oblivion, you need to do it MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE. I've reached numerous hard location, and found nothing but items my level would have gotten out of any other, usually easier to come across, chest.

2. Random Treasure - NOT IN HARD-TO-REACH locations. Well-protected or Hard-to-get-to chests, whether in dungeons, some hard-to-find sunken ship, some well-locked-up merchant's house etc should NOT EVER be random. They should have unique and helpful items, to reward diligence in getting to the hard-to-reach location.

3. Your game system, XP (as in experience points, not the OS) and SPECIAL.
XP is a WONDERFUL concept. It is the utterly best coin by which you can reward a player. Better than gold, better than items. There is NEVER enough XP (and if there is, bump your level cap). XP should buy levels, and levels should buy abilities that COMPLEMENT those given by items, not require you to displace old items like /additional/ items the player gets given require him to do.

Oblivion had no XP system. (as a side-note, XP and levels were a bit on the uninfluential side, considering you didn't get any edge over anything by leveling up, if anything, even after all the new items that magically appeared around the world, you could still barely keep up with the monsters).
It had a leveling system that screamed macroing. If you'd stand in one place and jump 5000 times, you got more bonuses when you leveled up. It was geared towards semi-exploitation, i.e. do something the game allows to get more powerful, but spend a lot of boring game time doing it. So you choose between either boring yourself to death, or throwing powergaming out the window. BAD choice to impose on your clients. powergaming SHOULD NOT be made boring.

Further, if you accidentally level up (by practicing your chosen skills - this might be by running enough for example) before you practiced the skills that would give you the correct attribute bonuses, you MISS OUT on the bonuses. To anyone who is informed of his char sheet and future development plans, Leveling in Oblivion is an annoying minefield to be meticulously planned from day 1 and very carefully treaded throughout the game, instead of the satisfying gameplay perk it should be. I realize you can just play the game and ignore leveling bonuses, but that's no better than playing any RPG without proper /informed/ consideration to the types of bonuses given by leveling, just picking stuff at random like someone who doesn't understand all those long technical words. It's not fun to those of us who ARE trying to achieve their best using your game mechanics (i.e. attempt to obtain the best "numbers" that the game mechanics allow us to). It's our way to try and get ahead, win. Your system encourages game mediocrity, and throws us to hell.

Enter SPECIAL, fallout's levelup/skill system. Like Oblivion, albeit in a very different way, it is classless (as compared to, say, classic AD&D). But it isn't just that. It's also VERY VERY VERY good, and has been meticulously balanced by your predecessors to hold the Fallout IP, To the powergamer and the casual gamer alike.

PLEASE pretty PLEASE, Keep SPECIAL for fallout. For watching a karate class taking place in a neighbour vault, Players like getting +5 to unarmed skill and 500XP, not just a tick next to a side-quest and two health potions (or stimpacks). UNDERSTAND the currency players want to be payed in.

4. Atmosphere. Fallout had it, and that's what made it what it is - an alltime classic. The Fallout world was convincing. It was intriguing. There was mountains of places that were UNKNOWN, where absolutely ANYTHING could lay in wait inside. When you exited the vault, when you entered a long-abandoned military base or a military underground installation that directly took a NUKE hit, a dead vault, the Airbase. Some places felt SAFE (brotherhood headquarters, populated vaults), which gave most other places a feeling of lawless, abandoned uneasiness.
There was lots of NEW stuff thrown at you all the time, even while using quite a bit of recycled graphics. Some of it was outright scary. The perks that waited inside these places were usually very helpful, not just more of the same you'd stash in your home somewhere.
Now Oblivion actually had a bit of it (The ghost house, the cultist village, the vampire-in-the-castle, etc), but nowhere close to F2, not by a mile. For the most part, oblivion was cities, towns and houses, generic FEDEX or Kill/Rob/Talk-to-X-For-Me quests, which are ok, but if you let them form the meat of the game, you get left with a just-another type of game, stunning graphics or not.
It's hard to outline what makes good atmosphere, a lot of things do, but in Fallout, a lot of it is about keeping the player edgy and on his toes. If every village, house, town and dungeon becomes just-another of something we've already seen a lot of, there isn't any.

On a final note, had potential ever since daggerfall, and have always used it for the wrong things, had the wrong priorities, invested your efforts in trivialities while letting the really big things slip past unnoticed.
After Morrowind and Oblivion, here's to a third time holding our fingers you get your head (and your game) straightened out on this launch.

Please.

Re:Open request to Bethesda re fallout (1)

jonaac (763147) | more than 7 years ago | (#18715757)

Couldn't agree more, good post.

+1 Amen (1)

kailoran (887304) | more than 7 years ago | (#18716817)

I could say more but I would be just repeating parts of your post...

All these damn Fallout fans... (1)

RexRhino (769423) | more than 7 years ago | (#18714879)

I am a huge fallout fan! I own all the games, and played them all through a couple times (including the Xbox game... which I would give a solid C-, it was mildly entertaining! It is definitly worth a $9.99 bargain bin purchase!), and I am definitly looking forward to Bethesda doing a new Fallout game.

Seriously, who else would you rather see do a Fallout game? (OK, who else would you rather see do a Fallout game besides Bioware? :) ) Aside from Bioware, Bethesda are an excellent choice. I would rather see a Bethesda game than to let the IP become worthless and totally die out. What do you think are the chances of seeing another Starflight game? Or another Populus? Or another Elite? Or another Wing Commander? Or another Space Quest? Game IPs die out, you know!

Re:All these damn Fallout fans... (1)

lieutenant_Zaz (938416) | more than 7 years ago | (#18715071)

Seriously, who else would you rather see do a Fallout game? (OK, who else would you rather see do a Fallout game besides Bioware? :) )
Maybe UbiSoft, they've made good RPGs before.

Re:All these damn Fallout fans... (1)

bckrispi (725257) | more than 7 years ago | (#18715519)

What do you think are the chances of seeing another Starflight game?
Starflight 3 is coming out "Real Soon, Now." [starflightcentral.com]

Re:All these damn Fallout fans... (1)

mcvos (645701) | more than 7 years ago | (#18719145)

I would rather see a Bethesda game than to let the IP become worthless and totally die out.

Doing nothing with it isn't what makes IP worthless. Doing something bad with it is. For ages after its release, Star Wars was the greatest thing ever. But the prequels (though I'm sure they made a lot of money) really lost the franchise a lot of appreciation, and therefore value. The next Star Wars movie won't make nearly as much money. Same thing for Terminator. Terminator 1 and 2 were brilliant, but 3 killed it. People prefer too ignore it. If Fallout 3 is bad, there may never be a Fallout 4. No Fallout 3 means that in 5 or 10 years, when the time is right, someone who knows what to do with it can still resurrect it.

Oh, man. (1)

seebs (15766) | more than 7 years ago | (#18715343)

I love some of Bethesda's attitude, but...

The whole point of an RPG is that you make decisions, and that resolution is based on your CHARACTER'S skills.

Bethesda has really stressed interfaces where combat resolution is based on the PLAYER'S skills.

I can't see this working out well for Fallout, where a great deal of the fun was being able to make characters with widely different abilities. Bethesda will give us a twitch-friendly game with realistic graphics but a combat system that's more FPS than RPG. And it will, no matter how good the graphics are, be a waste of time, because it won't be Fallout.

Babies (5, Funny)

oceanclub (654183) | more than 7 years ago | (#18716401)

I have never seen such a pitiful bunch of whining elitist crybabies as I've seen in this thread. I'm thinking of applying to Bethesda just so I can work on Fallout 3, make it rubbish, and watch with glee as you fling yourselves off the nearest cliff, mewling with self-pity all the way down to the welcoming waves.

P.

Re:Babies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18719533)

Wow, you're an ass.

Pinning One's Hopes On A Thread (1)

kornkid606 (1076023) | more than 7 years ago | (#18716609)

Personally, I like Oblivion, but for every one thing I love I can name three things I hate. It saddens me to see that Bethesda now owns the Fallout series. It saddens me because I am sure it will turn out to be "The Elder Scrolls V...er we mean FALLOUT 3" where Bethesda takes the same tired, uncreative template and forces a great design into an old, bad mold. I would say that Bioware (or wherever the original dev team is now) could do it better, but I doubt it. I almost think Fallout 3 would turn out better if it were made by some no name developer who had a lot of experience with the original Fallout and was willing to take it in a new direction while staying true to what Fallout is.

I just don't see this happening at Bethesda. They already have it in their heads the game they want to make, regardless of the IP. Fallout 3 is just going to be the same old tired Bethesda game with a new Fallout theme. And, most likely, they won't give it the amount of time it needs and will just churn out a buggy, lackluster product. And I will go out and buy it. And there is probably no way that Fallout 3 could live up to anyone's hopes, which is why no more games should probably be made based on fallout, let the Franchise die with some decency. But we all know that isn't going to happen. It is like hoping for a good X-Men game - never going to happen.

I am hoping that all my speculation is wrong and that I am totally surprised by Bethesda's Fallout 3, but my hope hangs on by a thread called "past experience" and while past experience holds up pretty well over time, in this case it is certainly nothing to pin one's hopes on.

Re:Pinning One's Hopes On A Thread (1)

Lenneth-chan (926055) | more than 7 years ago | (#18716687)

And there is probably no way that Fallout 3 could live up to anyone's hopes
This, really, is the biggest problem - when you have a franchise as venerated (and without a sequel for as long a time) as Fallout, you build expectations so high that you can't possibly hope to meet them, no matter how good your game is. I don't particularly think that Bethesda is the best, or even a good, choice to handle the Fallout IP, but I don't think that there is any group that could really do it justice in the eyes of the fans.

Time for doing our own (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18716645)

Have a look at http://www.fifengine.de/ [fifengine.de] . Looks promising.

Old news (1)

zyl0x (987342) | more than 7 years ago | (#18716717)

I could swear the big fuss about this was three years ago. [gamespot.com] I think you guys are a little behind.

Oh fuck! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18716955)

I saw a radscorpion the other day...
            --random Fallout 3 NPC

On The Plus Side (1)

Tofystedeth (1076755) | more than 7 years ago | (#18717873)

If they did do it Oblivion FPS style, imagine how awesome it would look the first time you were ambushed by a Deathclaw. Or come around the corner to find a supermutant wielding a flamethrower.

/me misses him some Krrldraav.

I liked Oblivion, but other than the fact that it barely ran on my computer, I didn't play it long enough to hate it or find all those bugs people complain about.

Online Fallout will never happen (2, Interesting)

mackil (668039) | more than 7 years ago | (#18718919)

I'm kind of struck by the fact that Interplay actually sold the rights to Fallout, when they had already sold the license a couple years ago. This kind of sounds like they don't have the funds to work on their Massive online version. Could this be a desperate move for some quick cash? I doubt that we will ever see that Fallout Online version. More than likely, Interplay will fold like a deck of cards. Shame really...
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