×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

124 comments

cue first, post complaining, about commas, (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18715247)

in 3, 2, 1...,

Why? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18715467)

Hmm, I guess Mark Shuttleworth backed out of the name "Gay Goat". That would have better described Ubuntu users.

--
You are invited to drink my Frosty Piss [slashdot.org] .

Re:Why? (0, Flamebait)

renegadesx (977007) | about 7 years ago | (#18716525)

I'm pretty sure for every Ubuntu joke (and you are not very good at making them up troll) there are 50 jokes about whatever OS/distro you use

Re:cue first, post complaining, about commas, (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18715841)

Ubuntu seems cool, however I will be waiting for the Don Imus sponsored version: Nappy Nigger.

Also, when is the Crazy Cracker release going to be out? That one should be cool as it will be based around KKKde.

Re:cue first, post complaining, about commas, (1)

renegadesx (977007) | about 7 years ago | (#18716481)

Are you trying to be funny?

Re:cue first, post complaining, about commas, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18716723)

I found it mildly amusing.

Re:cue first, post complaining, about commas, (3, Funny)

jojoba_oil (1071932) | about 7 years ago | (#18717815)

Nappy Nigger [...] Crazy Cracker

And the release that'll get them both excited (despite their differences) just so happens to be: Busty Bimbo.

Why not link directly to the story? (5, Insightful)

Simon80 (874052) | about 7 years ago | (#18715249)

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (1, Offtopic)

choongiri (840652) | about 7 years ago | (#18715313)

Oh that's simple. go2linux wouldn't get any advertising revenue by slashvertising their site if they linked to the actual post in a mailman archive. Of course, I could be wrong, and go2linux may be intending to donate today's advertising income to support their favourite FLOSS project, but somehow I doubt it.

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (4, Interesting)

Adhemar (679794) | about 7 years ago | (#18715413)

The ex-Ximian part of Novell consistently used/uses monkeys and monkey-related project names (Bonobo, Mono, Evolution, etc). I wonder if there is, consciencely or unconsciencely, some message to the Novell folks: the monkey-named version is after all going to be the first version with an official Gnewsense-like flavour:

The Glossy Gnu will nonetheless play a role in this next release, because Ubuntu 7.10 will feature a new flavour - as yet unnamed - which takes an ultra-orthodox view of licensing: no firmware, drivers, imagery, sounds, applications, or other content which do not include full source materials and come with full rights of modification, remixing and redistribution. There should be no more conservative home, for those who demand a super-strict interpretation of the "free" in free software. This work will be done in collaboration with the folks behind Gnewsense.

I know I'm probably looking way too deep into something as playful as a name choice. The thought just occured.

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18716221)

I wonder if there is, consciencely or unconsciencely, some message to the Novell folks


My theory is that Mark was editing Goatse using the Gimp, Gutsy Gibbon is the nearest he could come to Goatse Gimp.

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (2, Insightful)

Corwn of Amber (802933) | about 7 years ago | (#18716493)

Okay. I hope I'll find the USABLE .iso when it will come out, the one that Just Works, OOTB, Zero Conf', includes the nVidia driver, mp3 player (MAD, please, lest I burn mine ears), support for all video formats in all the players, configured right - that is, no "-vo not valid" in mplayer or "can't load wmdmod.dll" in xine.

The day when Ubuntu will be THAT easy then it will be ready for the desktop.

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (4, Informative)

Aix (218662) | about 7 years ago | (#18716523)

Just so you know, neither the gibbon nor the bonobo is actually a monkey. They are apes.

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (3, Interesting)

freeweed (309734) | about 7 years ago | (#18717913)

And they're all primates. Maybe the next Ubuntu will be code-named "Happy Human"? :)

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (1)

fourchannel (946359) | about 7 years ago | (#18719705)

Dunno, Ubuntu means Humanity unto others. Maybe we should link the words "primal" and "Humanity" together? It would make for an amusing time. =P

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 7 years ago | (#18720671)

I know I'm probably looking way too deep into something as playful as a name choice. The thought just occured.

If they don't name the new flavor GNUbuntu, I'm going to be pissed.

GNU/buntu would also be acceptable, and people in the target market for that product would probably even get the joke.

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 7 years ago | (#18715629)

Not only that but it has an actual release date for 7.04

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (1)

J0nne (924579) | about 7 years ago | (#18715851)

Not only that but it has an actual release date for 7.04

That release dat has been out for a while now...

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (0)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 7 years ago | (#18715941)

I was too lazy too look for it.

Re:Why not link directly to the story? (1)

norminator (784674) | about 7 years ago | (#18717637)

You don't really have to look for it. The scheduled releases are (almost) always every 6 months [wikipedia.org] ... in either April or October.The only exception I know of has been dapper... which got delayed until June of 2006. But edgy picked back up on the October release schedule. (The 6 month schedule is based on the Gnome release schedule).

wtf is composite? (4, Interesting)

SharpFang (651121) | about 7 years ago | (#18715275)

I tried to RTFA but no info, and Google won't be much of help with a common word like that.

Re:wtf is composite? (5, Informative)

BlackPignouf (1017012) | about 7 years ago | (#18715329)

Try Compiz(http://compiz.org/), Beryl(http://beryl-project.org/), compositing manager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositing_manager) or compositing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositing)!

Re:wtf is composite? (4, Informative)

complete loony (663508) | about 7 years ago | (#18715331)

Using the 3D capabilities of your graphics card to render your desktop.

Re:wtf is composite? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18716279)

Using the 3D capabilities of your graphics card to render your desktop.

Wrong. The Composite extension is completely orthogonal to the use of 3D acceleration hardware for 2D rendering.

Re:wtf is composite? (1)

ban (31369) | about 7 years ago | (#18715355)

Wobbly Windows(TM) and other useful features...
http://compiz.org/ [compiz.org]
http://beryl-project.org/ [beryl-project.org]

Re:wtf is composite? (0, Troll)

empaler (130732) | about 7 years ago | (#18715809)

I used it for five full minutes before realizing that the inherent risk of beta software was nowhere near worth that little wobble. (Yes, I know I can the desktop to rain. Wooooooooo. Hooooooo.)

Re:wtf is composite? (3, Insightful)

cyclop (780354) | about 7 years ago | (#18716783)

I use Beryl (SVN version!) on my main desktop every day. I used to be skeptic like you, but after trying it, I'd never go back.

Wobbly windows are pure useless eye candy, but transparency (colour-specific transparency is in development,I think), expose-like and wall plugins are really useful. Rain and wobbly are just technology showcases -I think that we'll see useful applications of Beryl/Compiz soon.

Re:wtf is composite? (1)

cyrtainne (1078481) | about 7 years ago | (#18720683)

I believe that non-wobbly windows are useless eye candy. I prefer the wobbly ones to the non wobbly ones. It's a matter of preference, not usability when it comes to wobbles. Wobbly windows DO increase my own productivity as does eye candy. It's just more pleasant to work with something that is visually appealing. For those that don't like the 'eye candy' there is always the terminal - you won't need to look at a window again! Oh yea, and since you use beryl-svn every day, you know that transparency is already done and that there are already a plethora of useful application for Beryl.

Re:wtf is composite? (4, Interesting)

LarsWestergren (9033) | about 7 years ago | (#18715521)

If you like me have been confused about stuff like DRI, Mesa, GLX Extensions and so on in logs and conf files when trying to get OpenGL drivers working under Linux, I recommend How Xgl works [homelinux.net] .

Re:wtf is composite? (1)

LifesABeach (234436) | about 7 years ago | (#18719807)

XLG? I have been beginning to think that the graphics component to presenting information has been like the unwanted child. It would be nice to see a more graphical solution to the Desk Top Manager. I just had this vision of the movie, "A Night At The Museum" [wikipedia.org] for a design solution; Now THAT would be a Desk Top Manager. I just wish I knew how to make a desk top manager like that!

Re:wtf is composite? (5, Informative)

Eivind (15695) | about 7 years ago | (#18715899)

The quick explanation (somewhat oversimplified, but you get the idea)

In a traditional (non-compositing) windowing-environment, each application essentially handles its own part of the screen, when, for example, a part of firefox previously hidden behind an xterm get unobscured, firefox is informed of this fact, and is responsible for redrawing that part of its own window.

In a compositing system, instead each program draw on their own private separate area. All these areas are then sent to the compositing manager which makes the overall screen by combining these in various ways.

There's advantages. First, it simplifies things for the programs, since they can pretend they're always alone on the screen. Secondly, it makes it possible to unify visual tricks. Without composition, for example, each and every program that wants to support stuff like being transparent, or animating their appearance, or being transparent only while being dragged or any other of a million visible tricks need to implement this independent of eachother.

With composition, the compositing window-manager can handle all of that, and the programs won't even notice. So it improves consistency by making the same visual options work identically in *all* programs.

Re:wtf is composite? (1)

justthinkit (954982) | about 7 years ago | (#18717261)

There's advantages. First, it simplifies things for the programs, since they can pretend they're always alone on the screen.

It seems the drawback to this would be an application busily (re)drawing itself when it is not visible. The (re)drawing takes CPU time, yet the result is not even visible to the user (who might even have minimized or hidden the window precisely to save it from redrawing.) Does GG avoid this?

Re:wtf is composite? (1)

p0tat03 (985078) | about 7 years ago | (#18718701)

It doesn't have to. The OS X window manager does notification for redraw, it's just that you as the application do not have to worry about the details of a redraw like occlusion, clipping, and transparency - just that you have to redraw.

It also gives the OS a lot of leeway for cool tricks, like OS X and Expose, where it can do thumbnails of each window.

Search YouTube for "Beryl", "Compiz", or "XGL" (1)

aok (5389) | about 7 years ago | (#18717995)

You should check out the tons of videos posted on YouTube with videos showing off various features possible with a compositing desktop.

From my own videos that I put up months ago for fun, I am still getting people messaging me asking me how they can set up their system like mine (which I put up to annoy my girlf) :) Sometimes they are Windows users asking me what software they need to install...

I use Beryl (svn 4453) everyday at work to do development. To be honest, I really only just use the Expose-clone (called "Scale") which has made working with many windows open across multiple desktops so much more comfortable. That's really the main feature I use the most that wouldn't be available without compositing. I used to use the translucent cube often to find my windows (they'd appear backwards when looking at them from behind), but now it's just lumped with all the other eye-candy features that I'd only show when curious people want to see want I can do with my desktop.

There are also many other productive features, but I don't think they require a compositing window manager though.

Re:Search YouTube for "Beryl", "Compiz", or "XGL" (1)

SoCalChris (573049) | about 7 years ago | (#18719805)

From my own videos that I put up months ago for fun, I am still getting people messaging me asking me how they can set up their system like mine (which I put up to annoy my girlf)
So what annoys your girlfriend more? Posting videos of your desktop to youtube, or referring to her as your 'girlf'? :)

I'm a big fan of Canonical's business model (3, Funny)

Andrew Tanenbaum (896883) | about 7 years ago | (#18715279)

which seems to be "Spend Mark Shuttleworth's Money". I'm sure we're all enjoying the free (as in beer, if I must) ride.

Re:I'm a big fan of Canonical's business model (1)

vivaoporto (1064484) | about 7 years ago | (#18715367)

Well, it takes money to make money. And it is not as he was out there, spending his money on flimsy things like space travels, or something like that. Oh, wait! [wikipedia.org] , he already did that. But, with a name like Shuttle worth, I would too, just for the sake of the pun.

Anyway, if he believes [com.com] that he will eventually make Canonical profitable [com.com] , it is money well spent.

We should start voting on the next release's name (5, Funny)

aldeng (804728) | about 7 years ago | (#18715339)

I vote for Horny Hedgehog. Or Horny Hyrax [wikipedia.org] . Anything Horny, really.

Re:We should start voting on the next release's na (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18715619)

No No NO! The Hedgehog Can Never Be Buggered At All!

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=157199 [everything2.com]

Re:We should start voting on the next release's na (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18716055)

Of course, that means that it can only get even more horny.

Re:We should start voting on the next release's na (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18715723)

There was already code name Hoary Hedgehog for Ubuntu 5.04. They misspelled "Horny" though.

We may need to wait around 13 years to see another "H* H*" release.

Re:We should start voting on the next release's na (2, Funny)

Gleng (537516) | about 7 years ago | (#18715815)

What about "Rutting Rhino"?

Re:We should start voting on the next release's na (1)

coren2000 (788204) | about 7 years ago | (#18719059)

Or Seductive Salamander.... say it out loud, its very pleasing to say. Or Masturbating Moose.

Re:We should start voting on the next release's na (2, Funny)

Jearil (154455) | about 7 years ago | (#18719297)

Hungry Hippo.

Of course if they'd take 3 word names, Hungry Hungry Hippo will work too.

Desktop Linux Done Right (5, Informative)

aarmenaa (712174) | about 7 years ago | (#18715353)

I recently installed 6.10 (Edgy Eft) on my laptop, and I'm fairly surprised. The only things that didn't work right from the start were the digitizer (it's a tablet PC), and my USB wireless dongle. The digitizer isn't plug-and-play or anything like that, but the USB dongle is more of a mystery - it's claims Linux support, and it's even detected, but the included driver appears to be broken. The driver the manufacturer provides doesn't support anything in the standard manner (as far as WPA and various encryption stuff goes), so I'm using ndiswrapper for it right now. It works, but still won't work in encrypted modes. It uses a Ralink RT73 chipset, btw.

But hey, it got the old internal wireless card perfectly. It only supports WEP though. It also got the video card (and I can change resolutions in an applet!), sound card, USB hubs, my external USB DVD-RW (and it hotplugs!), and so on. It'll even hotplug the USB wireless dongle, with ndiswrapper - I full expected that to not work. So we're not getting 100% success, but it's entirely possible that you could install Linux and never touch a config file. That's how you do desktop.

Honestly, my biggest complaint now is that WPA and connecting to weird RADIUS servers run by universities and the like is still a royal pain. I tried Network-Manager (a Gnome applet) and it did all kinds of bad stuff to my system (loopback never came up), and didn't help me connect to encrypted networks at all. But, they're working on it. If this is the worst complaint I can muster, we've come a long way.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

SwedishPenguin (1035756) | about 7 years ago | (#18715499)

I had a similar problem with a Dlink USB dongle which was also RT73, the problem was that that the driver simply didn't know about this particular dongle, so I had to define it in a header file (fairly simple).
Download this [ralinktech.com.tw] and add your dongle in rtmp_def.h (at the bottom of the file) and compile. You can find the identifier for your dongle with lsusb.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

aarmenaa (712174) | about 7 years ago | (#18715649)

Thanks for the suggestion, but the driver will detect the dongle fine. It's actually an issue of "there just ain't a good driver." The driver that ships with Ubuntu 6.10 is an old, busted version of the open-source driver [serialmonkey.com] . I could just upgrade the driver, but it's only available through CVS. I'm not a developer, and know very little about CVS. It doesn't help that versions after December 2006 apparently have known issues, so you have pull from an older date in the CVS repository - I've got no idea how to do that. I could use the driver that Ralink made for the chipset, but it doesn't support the Linux Wireless Extensions (wext) (oddly enough, it's also full of bugs itself). It has it's own configuration utility. That means I don't get to use things like wpasupplicant or xsupplicant.

So, my solution is to use ndiswrapper and the Windows version of the driver. Ndiswrapper supports wext, so I've been trying to use wpasupplicant through that. This works well enough for access points that are open or just have WEP encryption, but completely fails to properly authenticate with my school's RADIUS server. I'd like to test WPA-PSK, but I don't have an access point that supports it. I don't know if I haven't set up my config file properly or what I'm trying to do just isn't supported.

The real crime here is advertising that the damn thing is "Linux Compatible." Yeah, you can use it under Linux, but it doesn't support the one standard that really matters (wext is how most of the newer wireless tools communicate and do their thing). For what it's worth, it works brilliantly with my school's network under Windows with SecureW2, so it should be possible to do it under Linux, I'm just not a huge guru that can make it work.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about 7 years ago | (#18715719)

Honestly, my biggest complaint now is that WPA and connecting to weird RADIUS servers run by universities and the like is still a royal pain. I tried Network-Manager (a Gnome applet) and it did all kinds of bad stuff to my system (loopback never came up), and didn't help me connect to encrypted networks at all. But, they're working on it.

network-manager will be fully integrated in 7.04 (Feisty), see the spec here [launchpad.net] .
Until then (while on 6.10 (Edgy) or earlier), see instructions here [ubuntu.com]

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

aarmenaa (712174) | about 7 years ago | (#18715827)

The relevant instructions on the page:

1. Applications, Add/Remove Programs 2. Find Network Manager in the Internet section 3. Check the adjacent box to select Network Manager for installation 4. Click OK 5. Log out and back in again 6. If you don't see the Network Manager icon you may need to add the Notification Area to your panel
Now, I used Synaptic, not the "Add-Remove Programs" thing, but I don't see anything that says I should need to configure it to bring up the "lo" network interface. That issue combined with the fact that Network-Manager actually made my wireless cards stop working convinced me that it's not really ready for primetime. And yes, I tested this in both 6.10 (edgy) and 7.04 (feisty). Honestly, the issue with bringing loopback up isn't a big deal to me, though - I can do "ifconfig lo up" and everything is OK after that. It's a good example of why I wouldn't be telling my mother to install it, though. Also of note is that Network-Manager doesn't have any provisions for Phase 2 Authentication at this time. That means that my school that uses PAP authentication (phase2="auth=PAP" is the line in wpasupplicant) is completely unsupported. As I said, they're working on it, but currently Network-Manager is very provisional, and I still can't get a proper driver for my card anyways.

All that said (damn I'm wordy tonight!) thanks for the suggestion. I really do like the way Network-Manager works, it's just not finished. I'll definitely be watching it, along with everything else the Ubuntu people are up to.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

WaZiX (766733) | about 7 years ago | (#18715865)

for l0, just go into /etc/network/interfaces and add the following lines:

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

You might need to restart dbus: sudo /etc/init.d/dbus restart

If that fails, just come by in #ubuntu on freenode, someone will gladly help.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

aarmenaa (712174) | about 7 years ago | (#18715935)

I never saw mine without those lines, so they were definitely there. I have since formatted and have a completely stock Ubuntu 6.10 (edgy) install here (so no Network-Manager), and those lines are definitely present already. The same lines also exist for eth0 (the wired interface), except it says "dhcp" instead of "loopback," obviously. I'll probably drop by the IRC channel sometime this weekend and see what can be done, though.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

WaZiX (766733) | about 7 years ago | (#18715971)

yes, but in order for Network manager to take over the administration of your eth or wlan, you need to disable them (comment them out or delete the lines) in /etc/network/interfaces , so last time you installed network-manager, you (consciously or not) might have removed the needed lines... In the future, pass by #ubuntu before reinstalling everything, might save you some time ;-).

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

aarmenaa (712174) | about 7 years ago | (#18716013)

If I'm understanding your correctly, I need to delete all the "auto" and "iface" lines for interfaces I want Network-Manager to control? If so, I haven't seen that documented anywhere, at least not in a form that I understood. Then again a lot of the instructions for wireless stuff is extremely esoteric to me and I may have missed it. Luckily, the formatting was related to driver for my wireless card, which is another issue altogether (I can't seem to blacklist rt73usb after upgrading to 7.10 beta [feisty] and not have it be used when I plug in my adapter, but that's another issue).

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

WaZiX (766733) | about 7 years ago | (#18716107)

no, you need to comment out all interfaces except lo, lo being the two lines I showed you. So your interfaces file should only contain the two lines that relate to your lo interface.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about 7 years ago | (#18716287)

If I'm understanding your correctly, I need to delete all the "auto" and "iface" lines for interfaces I want Network-Manager to control? If so, I haven't seen that documented anywhere, at least not in a form that I understood.

The instructions might not be totally foolproof, but IMHO it is all there. Quoting from the site I linked to (3rd section) for your convenience:

Configuring Devices
Any already configured devices that you want to be available in Network Manager will need to de-configured, as otherwise they will be ignored.

The easiest way to do this is by going to System -> Administration -> Networking and then going to "Properties" of each connection. In Properties, just untick the "Enable this connection" checkbox. Logout then log back in again. These connections should now be available in Network Manager.

OR, the harder way, is to backup and then edit the /etc/network/interfaces file to remove the configuration of these devices (except for lo which is needed for the loopback interface). You will have to save the file and reboot for the changes to take effect (or don't reboot and run /etc/init.d/networking restart instead). For example, if you wanted Network Manager to be able to control all of your devices, your /etc/network/interfaces file would look somewhat like the following:

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
And further down the page:

Ubuntu 6.06 (Dapper)
If it is not managing your network connections after upgrading to Dapper, you'll need to comment out the references to all interfaces (except lo) in /etc/network/interfaces to let Network Manager handle them.

sudo cp /etc/network/interfaces /etc/network/interfaces.bak
sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces

It should look similar to this when you are done:

# This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# This is a list of hotpluggable network interfaces.
# They will be activated automatically by the hotplug subsystem.
# auto eth1

# iface eth1 inet dhcp

Then reboot and you should be good to go!

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

aarmenaa (712174) | about 7 years ago | (#18716345)

I see; somewhere along the way I got it though my head that the "auto" lines where what Network-Manager used to determine control. This actually makes more sense. It still doesn't explain why lo wouldn't come up (since I never touch those lines), but I'd bet that it's related to me mutilating that file.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about 7 years ago | (#18716265)

The relevant instructions on the page regarding lo are this,

backup and then edit the /etc/network/interfaces file to remove the configuration of these devices (except for lo which is needed for the loopback interface). (...) For example, if you wanted Network Manager to be able to control all of your devices, your /etc/network/interfaces file would look somewhat like the following:

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback


That said, yeah, it is not yet completely done.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18715987)

I would avoid feisty yet, I tried it on my laptop last sunday and it breaked numerous things.
My windows ntfs partition won't activate anymore, I have to activate it manually, though it is still said in the graphical manager that it is set up taht way.
When I disconnect, I don't have the login screen anymore, and have to use the magic key to restart x manually.
Hibernation is now broken AGAIN. (it was painfully slow in Edgy anyway,)
Boot time has become stupidly long AGAIN. From Dapper to Edgy it was reduced a lot because it would not look 30sec to find a network before realising there is none. Feisty brought back this 'functionality'

Feisty is not an upgrade, it seems to be a downgrade back to Dapper....

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

aarmenaa (712174) | about 7 years ago | (#18716067)

My main motivation to play with Feisty is I was hoping for updated versions of wpasupplicant and xsupplicant in the repositories - I hate having to compile and install that stuff myself, as it breaks things when the repository finally catches up with you. For me, I wanted to play with the new version and this represented a good reason to go do it.

But yes, I've had issues with hibernate, mostly related to the system acting like it's going to sleep and then waking up again. I feel that 7.04 (feisty) is faster to boot, and is definitely faster in general usage. This is on a Toshiba Portege 3500: Pentium M 1.33 GHz, 256 MB RAM, nothing special. I think some of this speed increase may be related to better drivers for my integrated Trident video card, as it seems mostly that redraws and scrolling is faster and takes less CPU, but that's just what it seems like to me. Also, in 6.10 (edgy) I added a line to modprobe.d/blacklist: "blacklist rt73usb," which prevented Ubuntu's built-in driver from loading when I plugged my wireless card in. This allowed me to use ndiswrapper to run the card instead. This no longer works in 7.04, and I don't know why. Also, the built-in driver for my card has apparently not been upgraded for this release, and it's broken in 6.10, has been for a while and is a known issue. Why they're not pulling in a newer version is beyond me.

All those issues aside, 7.04 is still beta. There's a good chance that all this will still be messed up when the final release comes around (7.04 is very close to release now, I think), but I'm thinking that some things, especially the hibernate issues come down to newer code that supports more hardware, but breaks some older stuff. In that respect, people like us are likely boned. Such is the difficulty of desktop operating systems.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about 7 years ago | (#18716331)

Why they're not pulling in a newer version is beyond me.

Maybe they don't know about the issue? You should file a bug in Launchpad [launchpad.net]

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

aarmenaa (712174) | about 7 years ago | (#18716429)

There are several launchpad pages revolving around the issue of the Ralink drivers, particularly the fact that the open-source driver that they use right now is kinda half-baked. A Google search for "ubuntu rt73 launchpad" returns some good results. I can't find it now but I specifically remember reading a launchpad page where it was discussed that the driver would probably not be updated in time for Feisty, because they wouldn't have time to test it. It has been known for some time that the rt73usb driver is broken, according to the forums (many tutorials I found specifically stipulate that you blacklist rt73usb, because it's broken).

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right Debian Gnu/Linux 4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18716433)

Use Debian Testing It is ready for prime time
(..but not last weeks netinstall build)

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

fimbulvetr (598306) | about 7 years ago | (#18717197)

This is bogus and not worth the electrons used to write it.

Feisty is "beta", which means if you find a bug it will likely be fixed by release if you REPORT THE BUG. Which I helped do for the boot time. And some NM stuff. And some kernel stuff. And democracy player. And nvidia.

Guess what?
9/10 of those problems are solved as of a few days ago, and there's still another week before release.

The bugs are being fixed like mad now. If _any_ of you plan on running 7.04, do it now. If you report even one bug you could probably save that bug from manifesting itself for others who are less knowledgeable. You also can assure yourself that install && ostensible hardware support is there. Bugs reported now will receive a large amount of attention and will likely be fixed fast.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18715985)

You could replace the internal card with an Intel 2200 (BG) or 2945 (ABG) Mini PCI card. These work great with Linux (out of the box with Ubuntu, WPA and everything). Only the firmware is closed.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

aarmenaa (712174) | about 7 years ago | (#18716087)

Yeah, the fun thing is I bought this USB adapter to replace the internal instead. And I chose it in part because it claimed Linux compatibility. I can't take it back now, and unfortunately don't have the money to buy another adapter. So yes, if I had it to do over again I'd get an Intel card, but it's not an option now.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

ajs318 (655362) | about 7 years ago | (#18716863)

I never, ever bothered with wireless networking. My machine already needs to be tethered to the wall to get its power, so what difference does another piece of wire make, really? If I was bothered about having two separate cables, I'd tie-wrap them together. But I'm not, so I haven't. My house doesn't have nearly enough power sockets, so I have four-way extension leads all over the place anyway, and a CAT5 switch is smaller than one of them. I know I could and should set up something more permanent, but I also know I'll most probably want to re-arrange everything as soon as I do that (like when I get myself a flat-screen telly and mount it above the fireplace and then I'll need to move the sofa and get a new rug and by that time the laminate will probably be showing its age and I'll have to re-lay it .....)

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | about 7 years ago | (#18716083)

It uses a Ralink RT73 chipset
Next time, try to get a Atheros chipset, those work out of the box immediately. According to the documentation [ubuntu.com] for your wireless card, theres quite a bit of manual labor in involved if it's not supported out of the box.

Honestly, my biggest complaint now is that WPA and connecting to weird RADIUS servers run by universities and the like is still a royal pain.
More information?

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

aarmenaa (712174) | about 7 years ago | (#18716211)

I love that page, it's one of the first pages I found when using Google to get help with this card. And of course the one part that would help me actually made me laugh out loud:

4.1.3. WPA info Enter anything related to getting WPA to work (see WEP above)
That's the entire section. Awesome. Anyways. They also go over installing a new driver, the one that Ralink made for the chipset. The problem is, it does not support the Linux Wireless Extensions, which you need for wpasupplicant, xsupplicant, and lots of other Linux wireless tools out there. This is probably why there's not WPA info on that page, because you have to use Ralink's proprietary software to configure it, and it doesn't have enough flexibility to connect to the network I want anyways. There is an open source driver, but it's a long ways from usable. In fact, Ubuntu comes with a version of this driver that doesn't work.

My solution to all the driver issues with this card is to blacklist rt73usb (open source driver) and use ndiswrapper and the Windows driver. This gets me a Linux Wireless Extensions interface.

Now, the network I'm trying to connect to. It broadcasts it's SSID ("hornet"), it's EAP-TTLS and uses WPA for it's encryption scheme with TKIP. PAP is the phase2 authentication. The instructions are here [spsu.edu] , and instructions for a Mac are here [spsu.edu] . I find the Mac setup guide is more helpful than their very sketchy information. I have been able to get xsupplicant to the "authenticated" state, but can't get an IP (there's not actual data transfer occuring). I've had no luck getting wpasupplicant to do anything useful at all. My best guess is that using ndiswrapper is a huge no-no and I'm not going to win that way.

Frankly, I bought this card because it advertised it's Linux compatibility. If I had known the actual extent of it's "compatibility" (no Linux Wireless Extension support), I would have given it a pass.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

daff2k (689551) | about 7 years ago | (#18716823)

Frankly, I bought this card because it advertised it's Linux compatibility. If I had known the actual extent of it's "compatibility" (no Linux Wireless Extension support), I would have given it a pass.
Sadly, just because the manufacturer says it's "Linux-compatible" doesn't make it so. Write some half-assed driver for the card, pack it together with some half-assed configuration program an label it "compatible". Bah.

Shopping for hardware is one of the most tedious tasks for any Linux user, especially when it comes to wireless cards. I've searched my ass off quite a few times in the past years and found http://linux-wless.passys.nl/query_hostif.php [passys.nl] very helpful recently. I mostly try to go for an Atheros chipset (although they don't provide a free software, or even open source, driver, just a pre-compiled kernel module), always worked very well in the past.

Finding good Linux-supported hardware is difficult and requires you to spend hours researching.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18716397)

Now before I start, don't get me wrong. I like Ubuntu. It is the first Linux I have properly used on the desktop and it is now the main OS I work with at home on my ne Dell 640m laptop with Core2Duo 2.0Ghz/2GB ram etc...

But... None of the LiveCD's I have tried (32&64 bit versions of Dapper/Edgy/Fawn) have booted all the way into a gui desktop on this laptop as they always get trivially stuck at the xorg config due to the 900*1440 screen. If you install them they seem to work ok. They should really put more effort into getting the LiveCD's working correctly as well as the main OS. I would be nervous about upgrading to a new version if I cannot see the level of compatibility and functionality it will offer me by trying the LiveCD.

And another point is the JMicron controllers. Before I got this laptop, I built a new home server to run linux on. At the time I was unaware of the issues with JMicron PATA controllers but it soon became apparent. After days of twiddling and forum trawling, I found that i'd have to wait a few more days for a following kernel version to be released with the correct native support(I'm no hacker, not overly keen on kernels that are patched to hell).

This in itself was no huge deal, part of the territory with playing with Linux on new hardware, but these controllers are by no means rare. This was an Asus P5B board and there are a lot of them out there now - and for this reason, I am truly shocked at this "known bug" from the Ubuntu 7.04beta site...

Systems with JMicron IDE(PATA) chipsets may experience a crash on boot. This was not fixed in time for beta release, but a planned kernel upload just after release will rectify the problem. A work around has not been tested, but would involve blacklisting the `generic` kernel module. https://launchpad.net/bugs/84964 [launchpad.net]
So in summery of my post... You can't boot an Ubuntu LiveCD on a laptop with the intel graphics (At least not on the 940m and probably lots of others) And you can't boot from a computer with JMicron PATA controller which I assume are quite abundant. These both seem quite serious to me. I wish they would fix this stuff.

Maybe the final Feisty Fawn will be ok on these fronts, the last beta I tested was not. I would be very very dissapointed though if Gibbon still has these show-stopping-for-some probs.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

aarmenaa (712174) | about 7 years ago | (#18716499)

Your resolution issue is odd, as I haven't had any trouble getting it to detect some pretty out there LCDs - it got my 22" Westinghouse (offbrand) LCD's native 1680*1050 correct (your monitor is probably 1440*900, not the other way around, btw). As I understand it, those JMicron IDE controllers are nothing but a royal pain the ass. They're actually a newer controller, and they apparently are kinda hard to deal with (I don't know how, not my area of interest). I have one on a Gigabyte GA-965-DS3 board I'm working with, and it's really a poor controller, even under Windows. It doesn't surprise me that Ubuntu is choking on it, especially a beta.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

fimbulvetr (598306) | about 7 years ago | (#18717237)

Edgy perfectly detected and setup my nvidia 6200 + mag 19" 1440x900 combo. Fawn was a bit more picky, because it's xorg was b0rked at the time for one reason or another.

Re:Desktop Linux Done Right (1)

MMC Monster (602931) | about 7 years ago | (#18716623)

I've been running Fiesty (Ubuntu 7.04) nightlies for the last 6-8 weeks or so. Edgy never worked on my desktop (hand on shutdown or reboot-I forget which). Fiesty is a dream to work with compared to Dapper (6.06). Automatic installation of nvidia drivers with updates with new kernel versions. Automatic installation of codecs when you try to play a media file. Everything just works.

Now I'm just looking for an easy way to rip DVDs to iPod video format and sync them to my iPod. (Amarok works great with the iPod otherwise, even syncing cover art.)

So Vista can be renamed Greedy Gorilla? (4, Funny)

jkrise (535370) | about 7 years ago | (#18715497)

Just so we compare apples to apples... considering the bloated h/w needs for Vista, and considering it comes form the 800lb gorilla.. Greedy Gorilla sounds very 'apt'.

I think Vista articles on Slashdot must come with a Greedy Gorilla icon... given that we're seeing several articles a week already.

Re:So Vista can be renamed Greedy Gorilla? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18715785)

or the evil monkey from family guy ;)

Re:So Vista can be renamed Greedy Gorilla? (1)

AJWM (19027) | about 7 years ago | (#18718789)

I think Vista articles on Slashdot must come with a Greedy Gorilla icon..

Would you settle for a picture of Steve Ballmer?

What's up with the gay name? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18715779)

Flamebait probably, but what's up with the really gay names the ubuntu projects have? no, they aren't cute, they are stupid, irrelevant and most of all *gay*.

The animal theme may work, but I mean really, "feisty fawn"? "gutsy gibbon"?

Also, Africa is not and has never been cool.

Damn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 years ago | (#18715859)

I was hoping for "Ghastly Ghoul".

My friends... (2, Insightful)

Psychotria (953670) | about 7 years ago | (#18716043)

... already think I am crazy. Think of the uproar when I tell them I playing with the gusty gibbon.

guTSy gibbon actually ... (1)

DaveCar (189300) | about 7 years ago | (#18716231)


but i read it as guSTy at first.

maybe something to do with its guts is making it gusty?

Gutsy Gibbon? (3, Funny)

alexo (9335) | about 7 years ago | (#18716289)

Sources indicated that, in accordance with the theme, the next project will be named Busty Baboon.

Re:Gutsy Gibbon? (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | about 7 years ago | (#18717273)

No, H is next - I vote for half-wit hippo. Whoops, that would be Vista. Better skip it and go straight to Intellectual Ibid.

Re:Gutsy Gibbon? (1)

A_Non_Moose (413034) | about 7 years ago | (#18718977)

Sources indicated that, in accordance with the theme, the next project will be named Busty Baboon.


Actually, "Alliterating Apes" accepted before that.

Splog (2, Informative)

Bogtha (906264) | about 7 years ago | (#18718549)

It was introduced by Mark Shuttleworth, early today, this release will come full composite as default, according to Mark."

How on earth do you get that, when what he actually said was:

On a personal note, the monkey on my back has been composite-by-default, which I had hoped would happen in Edgy, then Feisty. I'm nervous to predict it now for Gutsy, for fear of a third strike, but I'm told that great work is being done in the Compiz/Beryl community and upstream in X. There's a reasonable chance that Gutsy will deliver where those others have not.

Wow, Go2Linux really did well with this. They copy & pasted the email and the release schedule, they added a totally incorrect summary, submitted their own story to Slashdot, and got onto the front page. It's almost as if Slashdot is trying to reward incompetence.

What's next? (1)

AJWM (19027) | about 7 years ago | (#18718657)

Feisty Fawn, Gutsy Gibbon, ... So what are they going to call the one after Zaftig Zebra? (Consider the code bloat by then.)

Perhaps they'll strip it down and go with Anorexic Aardvark.

full composite by default not (necessarily) true (1)

fdfisher (1043332) | about 7 years ago | (#18719511)

...this release will come full composite as default, according to Mark.

Actually, if you read the letter, Mark Shuttleworth does not say that Gibbons is going to be fully composited. He only says that he would like for it to be, but whether or not it is, depends on where the technology is at in 6 months. In fact, he only mentions it in a small paragraph at the end, and most of the letter is spent talking about the new, completely free version of Ubuntu that they are making in collaboration with gNewSense, and how they had considered calling this release Glossy GNU for that reason.

I need more sleep (1)

GeekyMike (575177) | about 7 years ago | (#18720081)

I keep reading it as "Composted" not "Composited". I was thinking, there's something to be proud of, eco-friendly and disgusting.

Get their shit together first (2, Interesting)

RockoTDF (1042780) | about 7 years ago | (#18720281)

Sometimes I wish Linux developers would drop the whole "new release every X months" model and start putting more effort into the individual versions. Case in point? Edgy Eft and sound. Lots of people are having a really hard time getting Creative sound cards to work, and the main solution requires compiling your own drivers (which is acceptable in Linux but not if it is to be mainstream) and possilby reinstalling Gnome or KDE. I know it isn't the developers responsibility to write drivers, but why is it ok for them to overlook the most common sound card brand, especially when it worked flawlessly in 6.06? Maybe if they weren't working on 45 future versions of their product at once they could get things to work properly for Gods sake.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...