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New Sony DVDs Not Working In Some Players

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the DRMed-out dept.

Sony 651

An anonymous reader writes "It seems that the most recent DVDs released by Sony — specifically Stranger Than Fiction, Casino Royale, and The Pursuit of Happyness — have some kind of 'feature' that makes them unplayable on many DVD players. This doesn't appear to be covered by the major media yet, but this link to a discussion over at Amazon gives a flavor of the problems people are experiencing. A blogger called Sony and was told the problem is with the new copy protection scheme, and they do not intend to fix it. Sony says it's up to the manufacturers to update their hardware."

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Gee. (5, Interesting)

Khaed (544779) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744247)

Sony DRM pissing customers off. Why does that sound so familiar?

Re:Gee. (5, Funny)

celticryan (887773) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744279)

Nothing new to see here people, keep moving...

Bravo (3, Funny)

clem.dickey (102292) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744335)

Nothing new to see here people, keep moving...

If I had mod points, then if I had a sense of humor, ... oh, nevermind.

Re:Gee. (1, Interesting)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744353)

FTA:

Would it not be a good idea to test changes you intend to make on your DVD's at least on your own equipment so that if you find a problem you could have the firmware update available instead of not only inconveniencing, but alienating your own customers.
Hardware and DVDs are two entirely separate branches of Sony Corp.

I think it's a little bit naive to expect one branch of a multi-national corporation to talk very well with another.

Stuff like that happens all the time.
Oh and TFA "was posted on Monday, March 19th, 2007 at 4:49 pm"

Re:Gee. (4, Insightful)

Khaed (544779) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744693)

I don't care how many branches there are. The DVD division ought to make sure their damn product plays.

Making Grandma update the firmware on a DVD player just to make it take two minutes longer for a pirate to copy a DVD is stupid.

Re:Gee. (3, Funny)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744593)

And they keep coming back for more. Is this a Stockholm Syndrome* thing? "Pégame...pero no me dejes!"

*TNX

Time to buy some DVD's... (2)

Chordonblue (585047) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744615)

...And return them. Wash, rinse, repeat...

Re:Gee. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744691)

I wonder if the new DRM's been successful at keeping those movies off the torrent sites [isohunt.com] . Because if the article's to be believed, it's certainly been successful at pissing off paying customers, and what would be the point of doing that if the movies were still being pirated anyway [torrentspy.com] ?

Tickletaint [slashdot.org] (forced to post logged-out due to modbombing)

Xine (2)

normuser (1079315) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744259)

Xine + libdvdcss + elcheapo drive = no problems.

Re:Xine (3, Interesting)

Core-Dump (148342) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744385)

Torrent + living in the Netherlands + DVD writer = no problem (and legal)

Re:Xine (1)

oldguy62 (804304) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744395)

AnyDVD>CloneDVD2>Third large by huge HDD in mediacenter HTPC
who needs optical disks

OOP's another full harddrive, that makes 1.5 terabytes, time for another 500GB drive

Yes I know it's windows----it's still a windows kind of world for now

Re:Xine (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744639)

Without a computer?

Class action lawsuit anyone? (5, Insightful)

scubamage (727538) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744273)

Just thinking about it, if they're selling them using the DVD label identifying it as a dvd, doesn't it legally have to be playable in dvd compatible players? If it wasn't, wouldn't that be a bait and switch scam? Just saying, they may have just opened up the floodgates to yet another massive lawsuit.

Re:Class action lawsuit anyone? (5, Interesting)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744357)

The music studios got in trouble with Phillips on that score: they were told flatly that if it doesn't conform to the published spec they can't use any relevant tradmarks, call it a Compact Disc, use the CD logo, etc. But given how the DVD industry is structured, I doubt much will come of this.

Bait and Switch (4, Insightful)

Original Replica (908688) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744505)

Yes, Phillips did the enforcing on CD encoding standards because of their trademark control. The DVD industry has no internal standards enforcement, so this mihgt be the time to bring in external enforcement, namely the courts. If the box says "DVD" it should play in a DVD player. Sonys product is only DVD-like and as such should not be legal to sell as a DVD. It would be like a gas station selling ethanol but calling it gasoline, sure it still works in some vehicles, but it's not the same product.

Re:Bait and Switch (4, Funny)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744631)

Yes, well, in the U.S. at least we'll probably have to wait until we can get in that new President and Congress we ordered. The current ones are malfunctioning and in need of replacement.

Re:Class action lawsuit anyone? (2, Interesting)

nacturation (646836) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744365)

They may have found a way to fully comply with the DVD specifications while at the same time taking advantage of a flaw to implement copy protection of sorts.
 

Re:Class action lawsuit anyone? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744389)

You're assuming that the Sony's DVD does not conform to the DVD specifications, when in fact it could be a number of DVD players which are out of compliance. It may also be that the specs have ambiguities, such that both the DVDs and the players conform, but simply don't work together.

As for the DVD label, whatever entity licenses the use of the "DVD" logo probably dictates what that logo is supposed to mean. It doesn't mean that all DVD-labeled discs will work in all DVD-labeled players, the most obvious example being the case of region-specific discs and players. Sony's DRM scheme may be another area where they permit incompatibility between hardware and media.

Re:Class action lawsuit anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744583)

The DRM scheme almost certainly takes advantage of bugs in DVD player software that don't match the specs properly. That will include some pirate player software, but it also includes some of Sony's own DVD players, which apparently also contain implementation bugs. It seems they didn't do much testing.

D'oh!

Ridiculously, the people who are targeted by this DRM (pirates) are the people least affected by it. Firstly, it only takes one person to rip the DVD and put it on ExampleTorrentSite. Secondly, the pirates can patch their player software very easily.

Sony, of course, can't patch their player software easily. It's in a Flash chip within each customer's house. I hope that Sony will issue all those customers with a complimentary new DVD player in short order.

Works For Me (5, Informative)

thesaint05 (850634) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744287)

I have a Pioneer DVD player, maybe second generation. The thing is huge, and probably something like 8 years old. Casino Royale works just fine in it. Granted, that sucker will play just about anything you throw in there, from DivX to DVD +/- RW. Best DVD player I ever bought, and one of the reasons why I still only buy Pioneer DVD players. Makes you wonder about what's in some of the other newer DVD players if my old one can play Casino Royale with no problems...?

Re:Works For Me (4, Interesting)

Marc_Hawke (130338) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744361)

That's what I was thinking as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sony reps didn't lead him down the wrong road.

Reading the comments at Amazon and the blog, it sounds like it's just certain NEW models of players that aren't working. So instead of saying "It's our new copy protection and we won't fix it, but you can update your machine,' they should have said, "There's a bug in these models of players and they need a PATCH, which we are working on."

I guess they need to tell the truth (hah hah hah) but it seems unlikely that it could be the players and not the disks.

However, I guess if it's a relatively SMALL set of disks that have problems on these players....

I don't know. I still vote that there's nothing changed about the DISKs, and it's just a flaw with the devices.

Re:Works For Me (5, Informative)

WhoBeDaPlaya (984958) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744605)

IINM, it IS the discs - with Sony's ARccOS [wikipedia.org] protection.

Overreactioning again... (0, Troll)

Mongoose (8480) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744649)

Welcome to Digg 2.0... this appears to just be SONY / Toshiba players having issues playing a disc that works on other players. It's clearly not some new DRM scheme if it works on existing players. =)

If I post a blog saying how stupid slashdot has become with any stupid meme is the OMG truthyness. Why not post about the possible Red Ring of Death from the Guitar Hero II patch too? I love how the internet and blogs are being used to spread a bunch of half-assed rumors like this. At some point you have to take a step back before hitting that 'OMG sumbit story to digg/slash', and see if it's even a valid concern or some asshat marketing firm/fanboy.

Re:Overreactioning again... (1)

laffer1 (701823) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744715)

If it is sony players, its not all sony players. Casino royale works on my 6 month old sony dvd/vcr combo. As I recall, I did have some problems playing it with xine or with windows media player in vista. Then again, that could be my NEC drive not liking their new protection scheme. Its hard to place blame without all the facts.

Re:Works For Me (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744607)

I have an old Apex model that I'll never get rid of for the same reason (it's the one that has the hidden menu that allows you to turn off all the protection features, including Macrovision on the analog outs.) Even plays discs full of MP3s, which was pretty impressive eight years ago. And yeah, the thing is huge by modern standards, that's for sure, but it's built like a brick outhouse. Of course, that was back before Apex went to crap like most Chinese brands seem to, eventually.

I had read about the hidden menu in an online article the night before I went to Circuit City to buy it. I took it home and it worked like a charm, even made some perfect VHS recordings just to prove I could do it. I then read that the MPAA had threatened Apex with termination of their DVD license if they didn't remove that menu. The very next day the new ones with the "fixed" firmware arrived: I know because my old supervisor tried to get one but none of the ones they had available had the hidden feature anymore.

Re:Works For Me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744699)

I have a laptop and those titles do *not* work for me. Initially, I was mad as hell and got blockbuster to swap the discs over three times in one day. They seemed to think it was DVD driver problems, but it turns out that there is new copy protection software on the DVDs that prevent it being view by computers.

You can get something called AnyDVD that strips the protection mechanism from the DVD. After that, the disc works fine.

Dammit... (5, Funny)

Chouonsoku (1009817) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744289)

Now I can't make fun of Microsoft for having HD-DVDs that don't play on the Xbox 360.

Re:Dammit... (5, Funny)

kitsunewarlock (971818) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744713)

This is slashdot. You can ALWAYS insult microsoft for SOMETHING.

once... (4, Funny)

cosmocain (1060326) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744291)

...upon a time i believed in a fairy tale. it was called "standardization and customer satisfaction".

thanks, sony, for transporting me to the real world.

And in the not to distant future.... (1)

penguinbrat (711309) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744679)

Late breaking news....

This just in off the Slashdot wire - Hackers and pirates from all over the world seem fixated on DVD's, in particular those from the entertainment giant Sony Entertainment. Sources close to the mafia are adamant that the huge drop in DVD sales over night is a direct result of the attack, there was no comment on the unrelated story regarding billions of DVD players mysteriously ceasing to play their new releases.

Again? (3, Insightful)

tehwebguy (860335) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744293)

Isn't there a saying about someone burning you twice?

If you buy from Sony and don't expect this to happen, who's fault is it really?

Re:Again? (5, Funny)

sokoban (142301) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744433)

There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.

Re:Again? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744643)

I really wish I was at home and could log in right now to post at +1 so people would see this, but here goes anyway...

"Flamebait?"

FUCK YOU, YOU IDIOTIC GODDAMNED SHITHEEL WITH MOD POINTS!

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it fucking flamebait, you fucking idiot retard. Flamebait should be reserved for posts that are largely content-free and solely exist to start an argument, LIKE THIS ONE, YOU MORONIC CHIMPFUCKER! The poster made a perfectly valid point, JUST LIKE THE ONE ON TOP OF YOUR HEAD, YOU LOW-VOLTAGE GOATFUCK, and there's no reason to label his comments flamebait UNLESS YOU'RE AN IDIOT COCKWHORE LIKE YOU, YOU CUNT!

So, let's review...

Post you don't agree with != flamebait.

I HOPE YOUR MOTHER DIES OF ASS CANCER, YOU COCKTARD! = flamebait.

I even used nerd structure for you to make it easier to read, you fucking fuck.

In the case of Casino Royale... (2, Funny)

gardyloo (512791) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744305)

...it's obviously the universe conspiring to keep people from watching the dreck. Wish I'd got it on this new media.

Re:In the case of Casino Royale... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744315)

Thanks, I thought I was the only one who thought that movie was a disaster.

Re:In the case of Casino Royale... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744439)

Seriously, Bond with no gadgets and a lack of innuendo? What were they thinking? The acting was good, but it wasn't a Bond film

Re:In the case of Casino Royale... (1)

Master of Transhuman (597628) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744531)


I thought all the use of current computer, cell phone and DVD devices were all the gadgets the movie needed. On the other hand, maybe it was all just a ploy for product ad placement in the movie.

Otherwise, I thought the movie was great. The initial foot chase scene was definitely up to Bond standards, except that there were no vehicles involved (unless you count the earth mover). It sure established Daniel Craig as someone who has the physique to do the next three or four movies without looking like he needs a wheelchair.

And the babes were first-rate. I mean, Catarina Murino was incredible, and Eva Green was no slouch. Even the bad girl, Ivana Milicevic, was tall and hot.

Re:In the case of Casino Royale... (1)

gardyloo (512791) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744597)

Indeed. The movie was OK. However, I think it took itself far too seriously for a Bond movie. The Bond movies have always poked fun at themselves. After I was done watching Casino Royale, my friends and I looked at each other, and simultaneously, and unbidded, said, "Where was the mountain/giant spaceship/Oddjob?" (we're that good). Really, there was nothing *big* in the movie other than the giant plane, and that was boring.

Haha (1)

omega21 (841796) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744311)

Just one more nail in Sony's coffin.

Who owns the DVD format? (1, Redundant)

Marc_Hawke (130338) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744323)

When this happens with CD's, didn't Phillips (or whoever owns the CD format) threaten to revoke the license, so this 'not working' CD's couldn't be called CD's anymore? Could the same thing happen with this. The owner of the DVD format would just have to say, "If it doesn't play in "such and such" reference machine then it's illegal for you to call it a DVD?

Re:Who owns the DVD format? (1)

repvik (96666) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744359)

Audio-CD's with copy-protection cannot have the Compact Disc label. To have that label, they must conform to RedBook (Not sure about the color... some kind of color-book)

Re:Who owns the DVD format? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744511)

I think it was the Orange Book.

Red Book is probably some OpenGL thingy.

Re:Who owns the DVD format? (4, Informative)

DownWithTheMan (797237) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744411)

Quote from some web-page or another...

"No single company "owns" DVD. The official specification was developed by a consortium of ten companies: Hitachi, JVC, Matsushita, Mitsubishi, Philips, Pioneer, Sony, Thomson, Time Warner, and Toshiba. Representatives from many other companies also contributed in various working groups. In May 1997, the DVD Consortium was replaced by the DVD Forum , which is open to all companies, and as of February 2000 had over 220 members. Time Warner originally trademarked the DVD logo, and has since assigned it to the DVD Format/Logo Licensing Corporation (DVD FLLC)."

Looks like there isn't any kind of single company that can really rule on this and say, those aren't officially formatted DVDs... The fact that Sony was a main developer in the consortium would also probably make it that much harder to revoke any kind of "DVD" stamp from these disks...

DVD Spec? (2, Interesting)

Stormx2 (1003260) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744327)

I have a question. Is this allowed under the DVD spec? If so, I think the spec is very loosely defined. If not, maybe we could talk to the outlets about not stocking these discs under the "DVDs" section? IANAL, but wouldn't consumer protection laws prohibit that kinda thing?

Stranger than Fiction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744329)

Stranger than Fiction that the gf bought did not play in:

Xbox

Macbook

Windows machine (apparently it will work if I upgrade Windows Media player or something)

Needless to say, it was a benefit for me. I did not have to watch that crappy movie. Unfortunately, the gf made me download the movie, and she is going to want to watch it soon :(

Anyways, I will not buy a Sony dvd again. Their proprietary formats are going to result in them losing a lot of customers.

Re:Stranger than Fiction (1, Funny)

someone1234 (830754) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744467)

Solution is obviously: Upgrade to linux and watch downloads.

Re:Stranger than Fiction (1)

kwandar (733439) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744547)

The solution is obvious ... class action suit for not notifying consumers that their copy protection crap may render their product useless. Humph - eat it again Sony!

Re:Stranger than Fiction (2, Funny)

Eternal Vigilance (573501) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744557)

No, the solution is obviously to upgrade girlfriends.

(I realize that around here, unlike the rest of the world, that's more difficult than upgrading to Linux. ;-) )

Re:Stranger than Fiction (4, Interesting)

Original Replica (908688) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744613)

the gf made me download the movie,

I wonder, honestly, what the legal status of your download is. You paid for a copy of the movie, you now have a copy of the movie, but an unauthorized format was used when the authorized format failed.

Re:Stranger than Fiction (5, Funny)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744647)

You've got a girlfriend?

Stranger than fiction, indeed!

they've solved the piracy problem (5, Funny)

User 956 (568564) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744343)

It seems that the most recent DVDs released by Sony -- specifically Stranger Than Fiction, Casino Royale, and The Pursuit of Happyness -- have some kind of 'feature' that makes them unplayable on many DVD players.

Yeah, that's the copy protection feature. Hollywood finally figured out that if you can view it, you can copy it. If they simply make the content unplayable, nobody can pirate the movie!

Unreadable (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744345)

Sony embeds unreadable data which is just an unnoticeable blip on most players, but halts copying and some playback apparently.

Re:Unreadable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744571)

Which won't stop crap, because ripping will still be possible. Think about it like this. A scratch is just a "blip" that can make a CD or DVD unplayable in many players (and even MP3 ripping impossible). I have met some stubborn scratches, but have never had a problem getting around the scratch by simply creating an ISO. Try and Try as they may, they really did nothing to make copying THAT much more difficult, since you have to re-encode most DVDs anyway, unless you want to use DVD-9 discs.

Alternatives (4, Informative)

karnal (22275) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744351)

If you're having trouble playing them on the legit side, why not just rip them? Besides the moral issues, you could burn and watch then destroy the copy.....

2 options: Ripit4me (in conjunction with dvddecrypter) or dvdfab decrypter....

*ahem*verified on Stranger Than Fiction*ahem*

Oh, the irony! (1)

Arkaic (784460) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744387)

I can't help but chuckle. Good suggestion though.

Re:Alternatives (3, Insightful)

Marc_Hawke (130338) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744419)

And once again, (also mentioned in a previous post) DRM has bitten the legitimate customer, but the "pirates" haven't even been slowed down, (or in this case, they didn't notice at all.)

What it HAS done, is forced the legitimate customer to turn to the 'black market' to get access to the material that they payed for.

"I bought this movie, and I can't play it, but it doesn't matter because I was able to grab a rip off the Internet that same day and burn a new one."

Blue-Ray and HD-DVD will force updates on users (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744363)

if they want to view new disks.

Happened to me (5, Insightful)

pionzypher (886253) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744369)

I bought Casino Royale two weeks ago. When I got it home, neither my Toshiba in the living room, or the Pioneer in the bedroom would play it.

So I ripped it and returned it.

Re:Happened to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744569)

You're kidding right? I've never been able to return a defective DVD, except to get another copy of the same one. With "Tree's Lounge" there's a problem that causes it to stall then jump the better part of a minute. I returned it for another copy and got the exact same problem. I considered returning copies of it in perpetuity but decided the pain they'd feel was smaller than the inconvenience I'd feel.

Re:Happened to me (2, Interesting)

Sancho (17056) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744681)

Where did you buy it that they let you return it after it was opened?

The sad thing is - (5, Insightful)

ditoa (952847) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744371)

that this new copy protection system will not stop the DVD from being ripped and will only effect people who legally bought the DVD.

It is things like this that make me cautious about buying media from Sony these days. I have no problem with buying DVDs however one of the reasons I buy a DVD is that I know it will work perfectly in any DVD I wish to buy (unlike XviD rips from BitTorrent or Usenet) however apparently this isn't true anymore so DVD is now no better than a rip downloaded from the internet.

It is a shame that the companies are worsening their products with these copy protection systems to help fight piracy when all they end up doing is ruining it for the people who want to buy DVDs.

One thing that I have wondered about for a while is how many DVD rips online originate from retail DVDs? I would have thought the majority (if not all) came from pre-release copies as the DVD rips are normally several weeks (if not months) ahead of a retail DVD release.

Other problem titles (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744373)

The Audioholics forum had a thread late last month about DVDs that wouldn't play properly. There are other problem titles mentioned as well: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.ph p?t=30819 [audioholics.com]

Casino Royale (1)

DieByWire (744043) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744379)

I suspected something like that was going on. I just tried to make a disk image of Casino Royale on my Powerbook so that I could watch it on the road without bringing the disc along. I kept getting error messages, so I gave up and brought the disc with me.

One more reason I won't buy Sony hardware.

Re:Casino Royale (1)

Winckle (870180) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744441)

Since you're a mac user, have you tried using mactheripper?

www.ripdifferent.com

If it works, let me know, I'm planning on buying casion royale to rip with MTR.

Re:Casino Royale (1)

nernie (1050594) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744515)

i like handbrake handbrake.m0k.org [slashdot.org] better than MTR

Does Handbrake work? (1)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744587)

Were you trying to rip it as a straight ISO, using Disk Utility or something? Or were you using a specialized DVD ripping program?

I'm really curious as to whether HandBrake works with these broken DVDs, because at least for most Mac users I know, that's their primary ripping tool (and IMO the best all-in-one, free, GPLed, ripper I've worked with).

Re:Does Handbrake work? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744655)

No, Handbrake does not (at least for me) work with these DVDs, though Mac the Ripper does. It's a shame, because I really prefer Handbrake for just about everything, but what can you do.

Can't you sue to get disc no longer DVD certified? (1)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744383)

I don't believe Sony is the holder of the DVD certification. If this new protection is not part of the official DVD certifications, then their DVD's should not be using the certification and should have a disclaimer on them, much like the "CD"'s which didn't work in CD players.

Support Piracy (1)

Quzak (1047922) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744405)

Just another in a long list of reasons to stop buying media and support piracy, or just not view the media at all. Vote with your money folks, its that easy.

Maybe not only sony (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744413)

I buy a number of DVDs and have noticed over the past year there are certain troubles playing them on a computer. The DVDs are new, and I have tried them on different computer. The problem appears to involve decoding certain area. I see no scratches.

I was wondering if this was a method to depreciate the value of the DVD and force people to upgrade to the new formats. I myself look at this as another indication that they are not seriously interested in selling content and wish for consumers to find over avenues of acquiring the movies. I mean even why we try follow the rules we still get ripped off.

I've got Casino Royale... (1)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744421)

And it doesn't play on MSWindows & WinDVD. I don't want to pay to update my copy of winDVD, so I kind of shrugged it off for now.

I figure someone's got a way I can copy it and get rid of the new copy protection so that I can view it on my computer?

Re:I've got Casino Royale... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744501)

If I were you, I'd just say fuck it and grab it off a torrent site. You paid for the DVD; if there's any justice in this world, a judge isn't going to make you pay up for downloading what you've already bought.

Of course, there's the small issue that you can't download a torrent without uploading it as well...

Re:I've got Casino Royale... (1)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744527)

VLC [videolan.org] should work fine. You can use VLC to transcode it to a more modern format like Xvid or H.264 to save space as well.

Re:I've got Casino Royale... (1)

AnyoneEB (574727) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744559)

Just use VLC [videolan.org] ? (The Windows binary includes decss.)

Prevents casual "rent and burn" (5, Insightful)

ConfusedSelfHating (1000521) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744427)

This copy protection prevents most people from renting/borrowing a DVD and making a copy of it. Until people download the latest software for cracking it. This is mostly targetting non-technical people who were given DVD Shrink by a friend.

There will be copies of the DVD available on the Internet, because someone will crack the protection. All it takes is one copy on the Internet to ensure that anyone on a peer to peer network can get a copy.

Sony is risking alienating a large number of people to stop a small number of pirates. Not just a small number of pirates, but the non-technical pirates. They are also annoying Walmart, Blockbuster, BestBuy and any other retailer who sells their DVDs. Who are the consumers going to complain to? The retailers.

Oddly, this could cost them money even if you ignore retail backlash. Companies which rent DVDs to the consumer, purchase DVDs based on rental demand. If someone rents and burns a DVD, the movie company is pissed, but it still increases rental demand. Higher rental demand, increases sales of the DVDs to the companies who rent them. If someone finds they can't rent and burn, they probably will just download the image from BitTorrent rather than buy the DVD. Not to mention the people who can't play the Sony DVDs, they'll want a free version which actually works.

Sony has the right to put any copy protection scheme they want on their DVDs, as long as it maintains compatibility. If you sell someone a product which is designed not to work properly on their DVD player, you better tell them first. Even if the consumer was willing to get firmware updates, do you think the manufacturers want to start sending out discs and supporting consumers through the update?

Re:Prevents casual "rent and burn" (5, Informative)

guruevi (827432) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744541)

Stranger Than Fiction [thepiratebay.org] , Casino Royale [thepiratebay.org] , and The Pursuit of Happyness [thepiratebay.org]

There you go, now stop buying those darn DVD's and complaining that someone will crack the copy protection anyway. We KNOW, before it's even in stores you can get full DVD rips (yes, you can even get the full 4,7G download's if you look hard enough). And if I buy a DVD that doesn't play in my machine, without going through stuff like MacTheRipper or so (Johnny English for example) I return it to wherever I bought it and say it won't play (I take my PowerBook with me) and demand a refund.

I suspected that was the problem.... (1)

penguin_dance (536599) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744431)

Bought Pusuit of Happyness at Best Buy. I've got a Philips DVDR 3400 (with the update installed) and the disc would just play the promos and get to the main menu. But when I pushed play, the screen went black and froze. If you went to the scene selector you couldn't select any scene. Just took it back and got a replacement. Haven't gotten a chance to try it, but I expected it would work no better--this was the only time I've had a new disc not play. I plan to take it back to demand a refund.

This is bullcrap that any company puts out discs and then expects players to "fix" their players.

buy?? (1)

Fuzzums (250400) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744459)

don't you love it, when you but a DVD, you get all the bonus commercials you HAVE to see before you can start the movie?

you pay, you get added crap. you *cough* and you get the movie without crap.
interesting dilemma.

Pwned (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744469)

Sony, you lose again.

Should have at least included a firmware update on the DVD itself. Although then they'd still get complaints whenever the update failed and the machine bricked.

Oh well, looks like another class action suit, a tiny slap on the wrist from the authorities, then business as usual.

Just boicott Sony (4, Insightful)

viking80 (697716) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744471)

Sony Electronics was a great company until the bought the movies division.

Now, Sony Electronics tries to deliver great products, and Sony Pictures strongarm the electronics division into delivering defective products.

Just stop buying Sony altogether (Movies and electronics) until they become a customer focussed company again.

In the end the blame goes to the stupid Sony customers that allows Sony to sell them this defective crap, and then comes back for more.

Confirmed (1)

stinerman (812158) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744475)

I can't watch Casino Royale on my PC. I tested it under Debian Sid using both Totem and Mplayer. xdvdshrink crapped out as did "dd if=/dev/hdc of=casinoroyale.iso".

My resolution was to fire up Pan and head over to a.b.m.divx. Once again, paying customers get the shaft.

Sony arrogance to a new low (4, Interesting)

AnalogDiehard (199128) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744479)

We Do Not Intend To Fix It

Fair enough, we do not intend to support your arrogance. Welcome to our blacklist.

I rented a Casino Royale DVD that didn't work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744481)

and I returned it to BB complaining. They gave me another copy and it worked. I also later rented Stranger Than Fiction and it worked as well. I found this strange considering that I had chalked up the first one not working to copy protection. I also made the boneheaded mistake of putting the non-working Sony disc in my computer. Think before you act.

Sony isn't alone in this ... (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744493)

... have some kind of 'feature' that makes them unplayable on many DVD players.

Windows, for example, has many similar features, although most of us call them "bugs" or "exploits". But sure, if Sony wants to call a complete functional failure a "feature", that's okay by me.

Simply return the Sony DVD's (1)

tfg004 (974156) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744503)

Just return the Sony DVD's to the store and demand a refund for the malfunctioning DVD.

Easy (4, Interesting)

RealEstateGuy (1088269) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744509)

Buy a copy, open, find out the DVD is "broken" take back for exchange. Rinse - Repeat a few times. If everyone does this they'll fix it.

what about us? (1)

Bizzeh (851225) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744517)

it's up to the manufacturers to update their hardware

what about the rest of us, who already have DVD players? we have to buy all new ones, to watch sonys new DVD's?

ARCCOS (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744525)

These discs feature Sony's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARccOS_Protection [wikipedia.org] ARCCOS, which doesn't work with some DVD players and cannot be ripped by any program under Linux.

MOD parent UP (0, Offtopic)

Bananatree3 (872975) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744667)

mod parent up

This is GREAT! (1)

AlphaLop (930759) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744543)

Now that lame DRM is going to start screwing with "Mainstream" consumers maybe something will be done about it. DRM has been allowed to get this out of control because 'Joe Consumer' was not impacted by it, mostly just gamers and geeks.

When some congressman or his Aunt Ethel starts having to deal with the same issues we have been fighting with for years I bet something gets done!

Between this and the rootkit fiasco I am starting to think Sony needs to be put on medication or at least on a 48 hour hold for observation because they are obviously suicidal.

Why, oh why? (2, Insightful)

Qbertino (265505) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744555)

Why do manufacturers do this? I so would buy more DVDs if they weren't so bizarely priced and if I could rely on feature and quality stability. The movie industry would make tons of money. But no, they have to piss off their customers as much as possible. Would anybody of you give a damn about Bittorrent if each DVD would cost 8 dollars, come with all the extras, no CSS and no Region Code? I wouldn't. Sony and Co. would earn themselves a golden nose in the movie after-market called DVD-sales. But no, they have to chase away customers with crappy copies, a totally bizar publishing policy and DRM schemes that brink on the criminal. People go through all the bittorrent fuss just to get a movie. That should ring a bell with the execs. Then again, as proven before, probably only Steve Jobs is smart enough to see this.
I hope Sony Entertainment chokes and dies on their new DVDs.

Another reason to never buy Sony again (2, Insightful)

jgercken (314042) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744561)

I find Sony's tactics deplorable and am offended by their pompous arrogance and complete lack of remorse. They have/are taking advantage of the good faith vendor-consumer relationship and don't deserve my business anymore. Screw em I have other options.

Return Every One of Them (2, Insightful)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744611)

Every DVD that doesn't play, opened or not, is defective. DVD players are a well-known quantity now. After Sony starts getting returns in the tens and hundreds of thousands back, they might change their mind. And if they refuse to accept even a single one for a full refund, then I expect to see the Mother of All Class Actions Suits launched against them. At some point, Sony just has to go down once and for all. They're a terrible example to every other manufacturer.

Little light on evidence? (1)

PikachuMolester2007 (1058780) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744617)

Anyone else find the summary a little bit light on the whole "evidence" thing? There's one amazon help thread and a blog with only one post (suspiciously named "Sony Strikes Again"?). Don't you think we should look a bit more into this, you know, before getting all up in arms? This kinda stuff is how FUD gets started.

Re:Little light on evidence? (1)

killercoder (874746) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744707)

Ahem, courtesy of google:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.ph p?p=4916582#post4916582 [tivocommunity.com]
http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/strangerthanfict ion.php [dvdverdict.com]
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200704 05071706AA5ai4P [yahoo.com]

The problem is widespread, and lo-and-behold software is available that lets a PC not only play it, but rip it.

Killer

"Th more you tighten your grip, (1)

Hawthorne01 (575586) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744635)

Ken Kataguri, the more customers will slip through your fingers."

not just DVDs (1)

nierd (830089) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744659)

I recently (this weekend) picked up God of War 2 for the PS2 - it does not play in my PS2 - even though I own 20 PS2 games (several of which are as new as God of War 2) and they all play without issue. When calling the number for tech support - they say it's due to the laser on the machine getting old (because we all know the lifespan of an LED is less than 2 years right?) - even though I can play any dual layer dvd I through into it as well as any *other* PS2 game. I would say Sony is doing this to many of thier titles...

I buy Casino Royal(e)... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18744673)

It is working in all my DVD player and I dont have any problem to rip it and burn it on a 4.7g dvd for my archive.

Re:I buy Casino Royal(e)... (1)

denisbergeron (197036) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744701)

It's because you don't have Sony DVD Player

As per wikipedia (1)

Pranab (1088713) | more than 7 years ago | (#18744683)

"ARccOS had reportedly been discontinued by Sony in February of 2006." So they've obviously realised their folly - or perhaps moved to a worse one?
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