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The Starchild Project Claims to Have Alien Skull

Roblimo posted more than 14 years ago | from the we-need-a-science-humor-topic dept.

Science 266

kid_wonder writes "Nothing better to do on a lazy fall weekened? Well, go take a look at the Alien-Human hybrid skull found over 70 years ago. Be sure to take a grain of salt along. Read their report Oh, by the way. In the next week or so DNA tests are coming back, enjoy the hype while you can!" Hey! What can I say? There's not much on TV tonight, so check it out. And if you're an extraterrestrial reading Slashdot for the first time, welcome aboard. ;-P

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It's a hoax, I admit it. (1)

rve (4436) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535415)

We made that so called hybrid to fool Fox Mulder into thinking all those evil government plots were really alien plots.

So hard to believe? (2)

xtal (49134) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535418)

I wonder at times, why people are so quick to dismiss out of hand without the slightest degree of investigation into the validity of these people's claims.. what if Volta was so quick to listen to the people laughing at his experiments?

True - lots of these UFO/alien things are likely hoaxes, misconceptions or outright lies. But they should be given at least the benefit of the scientific method, and if they can't be explained, they should be marked as such.

Even the US government's "Blue Book" studies found some really interesting cases that they couldn't explain away, but these were outright ignored.

Lots of people believe in life in the universe, but people have a hard time believing that it could come here. Hell, our own physisists have demonstrated it's only an engineering problem to "warp" through space - one hell of an engineering problem, but possible nothingless. What would that be to a civilization just 1000 more years advanced than us?

I recommmend reading anything by Stanton T. Friedman, who presents excellent balenced analsyses of documents and paper trails produced by US government organizations - and comes up with some compelling possibilities.

Give science a chance, eh.


Anyone who believes this... (1)

MostlyHarmless (75501) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535423)

ought to have his head examined :-)

first post from Mozilla 5 (m10) (0)

delmoi (26744) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535425)

Well, this may not be the first post, but I'm posting from mozilla 5 (milestone 10), I'm amazed it hasn't crashed on me yet (although I can't see what I'm typing...) Anyway, I think the alien skull is actualy a 70 year old super computer that the NSA used to make a bewulf cluster ot of in 1920. Its all a part of Echelon p33r the N$A...
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"

Re:So hard to believe? (1)

Zurk (37028) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535428)

Read their analysis. They try to use "Gray" aliens to explain the skeleton found and its similarities. When differences arise they try and explain them away..i.e. the skeleton had teeth and a mandible which indicates a mouth but the grey aliens communicate telepathically and so human abductees were not able to detect their mouths etc...lots of junk like this in the report which should have been unbiased if it were to be believable.

Two words... (2)

Industrial Disease (16177) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535431)

Piltdown Man

time frame? (2)

Stonehand (71085) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535433)

They mention both DNA tests and carbon dating.

Carbon dating, AFAIK, is remotely accurate only when you're talking at least on the order of thousands of years ago.

DNA, on the other hand, is not necessarily intact for that period of time, unless it's protected from exposure... at least that's the impression I've got.

So how old do they think it is?

Deformed Human (3)

PovRayMan (31900) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535435)

Some human bodies have had deformed bones caused by disease. Isn't it quite possible this THING could just be a deformed human skull? It could very well be a hoax as well.


StarChild....hmmmmm (2)

Listen Up (107011) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535495)

A teenage girl, sneaks out of the house, goes cave exploring all on her own, and finds a hybrid human/alien skull. Hmmmm. Now, how did she hide this little gem. I can't even go home once a year without my mother going "Are you still smoking young man, I should make you eat those cigarettes..." Now, imagine what my mom would say if she suspected me with a alien/human hybrid skull hidden under my bed...Hmmmm

Alas Horatio, I knew him well... (1)

HamNRye (20218) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535497)

All I can say about this is that it sounds like another Fox special. Hopefully they'll find somebody better than Johnathan Frakes to host this turkey...

And "Star Child Foundation"?? Is that any relation to Starman? []

No, I do not mean the song by David Bowie. I speak of a far more dangerous man.... []

~Jason "Intelligent life out there" Maggard

P.S. First Post!!

Picture? (1)

X-ViRGE (44659) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535499)

Bah... I was hoping for a nice picture to print out and use as a halloween mask next year.

Not even a single picture... (1)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535501)

They could, at the very least, have put a picture of the skull on their webpage...
-- ----------------------------------------------
Vive le logiciel... Libre!!!

There's probably a better explanation (3)

paxx (91110) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535503)

It seems that any unexplainable occurrence these days is blamed on some form of mysterious alien beings. There has to be some better explanation to this than a fight between two alien races on our humble planet.

It seems to me that these creatures, whatever they may be, are a bit too humanoid to come from some distant planet/star/galaxy/whatever. Another thing, why would an alien culture leave only two embassadors with only one culture on our planet, alone and without the ability to contact their own people? And why would another alien culture come all the way to our planet to kill the two other beings and then just leave?

Any culture advanced enough to reach Earth would spend a bit more time on it, and we would most likely still be in contact with them. Even the most barbaric of cultures would spend a bit more time at least studying a sentient culture they came in contact with. Sentient beings like us and these two supposed alien cultures are too few and far between.

SETA announces deciphering of alien message! (3)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535507)

"First post"...

Re:Picture? (1)

fremen (33537) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535510)

Go to their main page at [] and you can see all the pictures you want.

something about count(chickens) | hatch... (1)

eries (71365) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535513)

As also stated earlier,
this means that either way the results come in, we will have made history. It will just
be a matter of how much history.

Perhaps the history of pages that were so stupid they managed to make it onto /. out of ... mercy? or is it just that same emotion that makes people stop on the side of the road to watch car crashes?

Geee, I wonder what the realpurpose is ? (1)

Anonymous Sniper (113827) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535516)

I read the first few lines, then skipped to the end. Anyone else notice that they are basically just asking for money to "fund further tests" which are obvious crap. Carbon dating doesnt work on under 1000's of years (to the best of my knowledge, anyway!)

Did I mention that I am testing my own... err... alien femur ? I cant quite a afford the er... carbon spectral thermograph tests, so please send money to my account:
Commonwealth Bank Of Australia, acc 06440410011297
Come on, people, cant we recognise obvious scams ?

Re:time frame? (2)

rve (4436) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535518)

Where does this 'carbon dating is inaccurate' rumour come from? For dating relatively recent organic material it can sometimes be incredibly accurate, because by examining old wood samples (and other things you can date accurately to withing a few weeks) you know exactly what the levels of carbon-14 in a certain area were in a given year and season.

DNA does not have to be intact to use it for identifying a species. To analyse the DNA you will chop it to tiny pieces anyway. It does have to be intact if you want to make a clone. This is a serious obstacle in the way of cloning a wooly mammoth or an egyptian pharao. You have plenty of DNA, but it's broken in tiny pieces.

Re:Not even a single picture... (1)

moray (45630) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535525)

They did - there's a link to the rest of the site on that page. []

DNA and alien biology (4)

Rob Bos (3399) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535527)

..I see no one so far has mentioned the impossibility - the inconceivability that DNA could possibly exist in a life form with a completely different development. DNA is an enourmously complex, enourmously intricate molecule that's developed over the course of billions of years to store the information that makes up an arbitrary lifeform in Earth biology -- the chances of something even remotely similar showing up in an alien biology are simply not conceivable. And don't even get me started on human-alien hybrids.

I'd love to give science a chance (3)

Imperator (17614) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535529)

Unfortunately, these types of stories can't be investigated using the scientific method because they consist of unverifiable and unrepeatable data. Imagine if I told you that someone else's closed source software crashed and as proof produced a photograph of this program supposedly crashing your computer. How much science can I do? Perhaps I could analyze the photograph, but there's no way to ascertain how that error message appeared on your screen.

I can't verify your claims with the amount of data you have; that's understandable, because you don't always have a way to produce proof and even if you did, you might not have it with you when this crash occurs. I can't reproduce your results; that's understandable, because this is not a regular event that you observed, and it's impossible to exactly replicate the circumstances under which it happened.

So there's not much science to be done. You can't use the scientific method to prove that the crash happened, and I can't use the scientific method to prove that it didn't. So why waste time over it?

Its not only a hoax, its a scam to... (1)

delmoi (26744) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535530)

With most of the fixed costs of the DNA testing being covered by a group of benefactors, we are left with funding the remainder of the so-called "peripheral" testing. This will consist of the Carbon 14 dating to age the Starchild; the neutron spectroscopy to determine the chemistry and makeup of its bone; an endocranial study to determine the kind of brain it had; and perhaps the most eagerly awaited by everyone, a full facial reconstruction done as a clay model by a qualified forensic sculptor.

These costs could run as high as $10,000 if we get a Rolls-Royce reconstruction done (using a $3,000 acrylic stereolithographic copy as the core), but we will go with what we have when the time comes to pay for it. What we get will be dictated by what we can afford, so anyone who might care to help us over the last few hurdles can do so in either of the following ways.
Looks like its just a cheap way to get some $$, I could do somthing similar, I'd bet. They don't even have any pics!
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"

The pics (4)

haggar (72771) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535532)

They are here []

skull (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535533)

caves were a big part of south american mythology ever since the pre-classics. they were considered the entrance into the underworld and from where people emerged. also cranial deformation was not uncommon in mesoamerica, as well as other parts of the world for that matter. many artifacts have been found showing cranial deformation in the region, many anthropologists believe that the native people of the area found the deformation to be a sign of beauty. this was often a feature of the upperclass.

Could be a malformation (2)

Nicolas MONNET (4727) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535534)

I remember reading an article in scientific american where they talked about some weird disease which made the bones grow forever (at least, until death!), so that the skull would become several centimeters thick, the spine would solidify completely ... and actually one viking king suffered of it, and the legend says that he survived a hit by a huge two-handed sword on the head ... well upon examination of his skeleton, this is not a legend, there inded was a mark of the hit on his skull.

The point? The cranium looked mostly like the picture on, except for the fact that the eye balls' orbit looked different, but it makes sense to assume that the disease could evolve as shown on the website.

What fascinates me the most about conspiracy theorist is the fact that there's ALWAYS simpler, less far fetched, less absurd ways to explain the 'weird' events, but they always choose the craziest explanation. An ET ... yeah right.

They do have pics (1)

ryder (111) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535535)

Check the main page []

Whether they're authentic or not is an entirely different issue :)

Piaget's disease (2)

Nicolas MONNET (4727) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535536)

That's the name of the anomaly I'm talking about. Also it could just be hydrocephaly, a common anomaly (poet Baudelaire suffered from it) where liquid accumulates inside the skull from early childood, causing the skull (soft at birth) to grow. It's now cured by ... drilling a hole!

Re:DNA and alien biology (2)

ixjzv (86645) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535537)

what if DNA is some sort of universal structure that exists in all living things, including aliens? do you think aliens are carbon-based organisms? do you think aliens breath oxygen? these are the things that we don't know about yet. so you can't say that it's inconceivable for aliens to be similar to us.

I found 4 artifacts this week alone! (3)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535538)

Why is it that only masters of flakiness like Lloyd Pye and Stan Friedman ever come across UFO artifacts and all sorts of proof fit for the Fox network??

Probably because when most people find some interesting crap they don't cry "UFO" without thinking which suddenly propels them into the well-paying hype machine.

Their theory is based on little more than modern UFO lore mixed in with a kind of Scientologist cosmology. I'm sure whatever results they get back with quickly be assimilated into a new UFO theory, cause, hey its real! Nothing like pseudo-science to keep you from disappointment.

"Unfortunaty when the mothership does land, George Clinton and Bootsy Collins will be the only ones aboard."

DNA and Starbaby (1)

Crixus (97721) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535539)

Well, I certainly am curious to see the DNA test results (which according to the article should be out by now).

All in all I'd say that the article was well written, and didn't really have that Erik Von Danikken (sp?) "we'll come up with any explanation regardless of how unreallistic to explain our theory", since they are willing to admit it might be a human deformity.

Wasn't there one option missing within their explanation of what the DNA results might return? They said the DNA testing will either reveal that the skull is "entirely human", or "not entirely human". Doesn't the option exist that the DNA might reveal it's not human at all? (however unlikely that may seem?)

Or would the DNA experts pass unidentifiable DNA off as corrupted human DNA that seems to be untestable?

I am a man of science but must admit that these things interest me greatly. And since I do suspect there is other intelligent life in the universe it is only a matter of time before we discover sufficiently compelling evidence to demonstrate this.

"For everything there is a first time."

And although that good fortune was not in the Mets corner in the NLCS, it someday will be in our search for extra-terrestrial life. I only hope that I am alive to witness it.

Re:DNA and alien biology (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535540)

Well, obviously, Earth life is derived from that of the alien beings. BTW, be sure to check out the home pages of the two "scientists". Pretty interesting stuff.

Re:So hard to believe? (3)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535541)

Sure, a lot of great minds have been laughed at, but out of all thepeople that have been laughed at, greatness must be .000000001%.

The hunt for UFOs is the modern version of the hunt for the elixir of life or turning lead to gold.

Obligatory: Newton was an alchemist. Not that thats why we remember him.

Re:So hard to believe? (3)

jgrr (103745) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535542)

What I find hard to believe is the concept of an alien/human hybrid.

Even granting that aliens are visiting earth and abducting people, how are they impregnating anyone? I mean, assuming what we know about the origins of life on earth is fairly true, there's no reason to think that ETs would have DNA. And if they did, why would it be compatible with human DNA? Chimps, our nearest relative based on genetic and morphological analyses, could not produce a hybrid with humans, so why would aliens be able to?

Other questions are, would an alien have a skeleton like a human's? While one could argue that the development of DNA as a genetic material could be widespread, it is harder to argue that the particular skeletal arrangement of modern vertebrates would have developed on a different planet, down to the details of how the skull sutures form. And if the aliens don't have that structure, why do their hybrids?

There are a couple of parts to the scientific method. One is that one ought not to just reject things you disagree with, but should offer evidence. OTOH, that evidence can be from theory, and that leads you to another important part of science: Occam's razor. If it is necessary that we discard all that we know about life on earth to explain a skull, then people are going to expect the evidence supporting the hybrid origin of the skull to be very strong.

So what I'm saying is that the evidence available suggests that this child had some congenital defect that produced a very strange skull morphology. Without an alien to give a paternity test to, it'll be pretty hard to get evidence that will make anyone willing to toss a lot of sound theory out.

People might rightly point out that many true theories were dismissed like this, but I would remind you that a lot more wrong ones were rejected this way.

Troll? (1)

MostlyHarmless (75501) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535543)

This comment was not intended to be an insult to those who believe in this.

In case the humor is lost on you, I was reffering to them examining the human/alien/hoax/not_alien_just_bashed in/insert_favorite_adjective_here head. So the joke was that they were examining the person/alien/etc.'s head when they should have been examining their own :-)

This does not fall under my definition of a "troll". I don't believe this report -- but I respect the beliefs of people who do.

Re:DNA and alien biology (3)

Imperator (17614) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535544)

I may not be an authoritative source on the matter, but from what I know about the evolution of life on Earth, it's very unlikely that alien species (even carbon-based, oxygen-respirating ones) have DNA at all like ours. Yes, it's quite possible that they have some sort of genetic material (that is, material carrying the information needed to recreate the organism (though even DNA on Earth (and not every organism on Earth has DNA (many only have RNA (setq e 2.718))))), but the idea that it can be analyzed in the same way as terrestrial DNA is ridiculous. (Of course there's a chance, but the probability is negligible.)

Re:So hard to believe? (2)

Captain Nitpick (16515) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535545)

Sure, a lot of great minds have been laughed at, but out of all thepeople that have been laughed at, greatness must be .000000001%.

"The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown" - Carl Sagan

Re:Deformed Human (2)

CrayDrygu (56003) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535546)

There's a possibility it could be a badly deformed human, sure. I doubt it, though. I'm more inclined to believe that it's either an alien or a hoax, though.

Take a look at the pictures of the skull (and the forensic rending) on their site. The shape of this skull is amazingly like that of the "Gray" aliens everyone seems to be abducted by. There's two trains of thought you could follow here:

One: The skull is a hoax. After all, if you're going to make up something like this, why not use the most popular form?

Two: (and this is the one I'm more inclined to believe, based on the information I've seen) The skull is alien, or at least not human. After all, it's hard to fake something like a skull. You'd need to have a cheap way of forming convincing bone tissue, find a way to age it, and break it in a way that looks natural...

If it's proven that this skull is little more than a malformed human, I won't be terribly surprised. The conincidental shape would be amazing, but I suppose anything is possible. I'm far more inclined to believe, however, that the skull is non-human in nature.

the truth is out there (2)

criticalrealist (111008) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535547)

What would radiocarbon dating say? How old is that skull they have?

There are problems with this kind of inquiry: (1) if it's a deformity there's no way to convince believers of that; (2) if it's really an "alien" or "hybrid" (cough cough, ahem) then they aren't proceeding as scientists would (calling it the "Starchild Project" and otherwise stating their bias toward it being alien; (3) we have no way of finding other anthropological evidence to back up any claim of this kind; and (4) we have too many absolute believers and also too many absolute skeptics--we need some moderates who will look for whatever the truth might be. We have many more questions than answers here.

But still. I admit that more than occasionally I get the feeling that we are just pawns in a larger game, or that we are lab monkeys in some massive lab. Doesn't anyone else think that, too?

One extreme alternative is that there is another line of primates as represented by this skull who are kind of a more advanced human being. I found it disappointing that the web site only compares the skull to cro-magnons (modern humans), and not other primates.

"I kiss you" from Star Child... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535548)

That's what I am waiting for next to appear at this site... But in all seriousness, this looks like an oppertunity for a "close shave" by Occum's razor, and start with the more obvious explanations; a natural (or post birth) deformity or a hoax....

Finally (1)

Imperator (17614) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535549)

We've found the missing link between protofungi and protoprotists.

(And if you want some more humor(?), look at Jizmak's history/karma. :)

Re:time frame? (1)

Have Blue (616) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535550)

Carbon dating is only accurate down to about 400 years. I'm not completely sure why, it has somethingto do with the ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12 not having chagned enough.

Extraterrestrials Reading /. (2)

quonsar (61695) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535551)

And if you're an extraterrestrial reading Slashdot for the first time, welcome aboard. ;-P

I've been reading /. for quite some time, since waaay before it was cool. To hear those stuffy Mxsptlars, you'd think they invented /. Galactic sheep dung is what they are, the lot of them...

"Rex unto my cleeb, and thou shalt have everlasting blort." - Zorp 3:16

Really interesting but... (1)

Imperator (17614) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535552)

Can you point to any solid information to support your statement?

Re:I found 4 artifacts this week alone! (1)

Timmy (969) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535553)

"Unfortunaty when the mothership does land, George Clinton and Bootsy Collins will be the only ones aboard."

In my opinion, that would be way cool! Maybe Sun-Ra would be there, too - as navigator.

As to the issue of why only UFO nuts seem to find UFO artifacts, another explanation may be that they're the only ones looking. Consider the old conspiracy standby, the number 23. Once you start looking, you'll see 23 everywhere. Does this mean the 23's weren't there before you were looking, or does it mean that the act of looking causes more 23's to appear?

If I'm actively keeping an eye out for UFOs and UFO artifacts, you can be darn sure I'm going to find more of them than someone who thinks UFO phenomena are a load of crap. Whether the phenomena I spot are "genuine" or not is a different story. But if you ask me to bet on who'll discover actual evidence first, the UFO nut or the skeptic, I'm going to bet on the UFO nut.

Re:DNA and alien biology (1)

Timmy (969) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535554)

Of course, this would also mean that if no substance remotely similar to DNA were evident in the skulls, they're more likely to be alien (if they're not complete fakes) - eh?

Re:So hard to believe? (4)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535555)

The most obvious answer is that people dismiss it because the proponents jump to irrational and illogical conclusions based on only minimal or nonexistant evidence.

reading through the page, what struck me most was how quickly they were assosciating anything about the skull with "eyewitness accounts" of what a "gray" looks like. Given only a verbal account of what a human head looks like, i have no doubt this skull would fit within acceptable parameters, as well.

They brush off suggestions that it is simply malformed but entirely human because the doctors they've consulted disagree on the cause of deformity. So what? You can get mutually exclusive diagnosis for even the most common ailments for a patient that can actually talk to doctors and subject themselves to tests.
Suggesting that multiple diagnosis from only a single sekeletal section necessarily invalidates them all is nothing short of self-delusional.

Furthermore, there are many statements about why it couldn't be a given ailment that are simply wrong. Most extreme genetic disorders or other genetic ailmnents are fairly rare, and thus they have very little basis for saying that this skull doesn't fit them. Having done studies on Progeria, I personally thought the skull looked pretty much like most of the photos I've seen of progeric heads. For them to say it COULDN'T be progeria because it's "too symmetrical" is ridiculous and completely unbased on any scientific rationale.

Finally, I couldn't do anything but laugh at their "forensic rendering". There are a lot of groundless assumptions being made in it, and i suggest that if they gave the skull to a qualified forensic artist without telling them "we think its an alien skull!" it would look pretty normal, although obviously a little top-heavy (a lot like someone with progeria).

I especially liked the pointed ears, considering there was no ear cartilage or other physical structure to indicate what shape they should be other than normal human rounded...

Re:time frame? (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535556)

If carbon dating is accurate, creation science is invalid. Since creation science is valid, carbon dating is wildly innacurate and cannot be trusted.

I know this is true because I read it on the Internet, and the Web site I read it on was made by a professor. I know he was a professor because it said so on the Web site, and everybody knows that professors are always right.

Of course, it is always possible that the professor was half alien. I don't remember seeing any information about his DNA on the Web site.

- Robin

stop now. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535557)

You will terminate this discussion immediately or suffer the consequences, feeble human.

Re:Deformed Human (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535558)

If it's proven that this skull is little more than a malformed human, I won't be terribly surprised. The conincidental shape would be amazing, but I suppose anything is possible. I'm far more inclined to believe, however, that the skull is non-human in nature.

And where do you think those alien stories come from? They come from real people. Just like all other legends. Stories about werewolves, elves, changelings, and so on can all be traced to known and documented genetic mutations.

You would be suprised ... (1)

Bwah (3970) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535559)

I wish I could recall the guy's name who ran this experiment, but I can't. This was quite a while back though. Asimov wrote up a good brief on it if I recall correctly ...

Anyway, some people jammed a bunch of inorganic junk into a tube and let it cook for a while. (they were trying to simulate primordial "soup") Nothing significant came out of it so they added a device that made electric arcs. They were suddenly creating all sorts of interesting compounds and ... here's the part i seem to remember but am not sure sbout ... among them were some lower to medium level DNA building blocks.

Seems as if those types of compounds form so easily that DNA could be a bit more universal than you suggest.

food for thought anyway. If I weren't so darn lazy I would go look it up on the web I guess ...


Re:DNA and alien biology (1)

Imperator (17614) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535560)

An alien skull made out of plaster would be highly dissimilar to any lifeform found on Earth. However, lacking DNA doth not an alien make.

Why I think it's not a hoax (1)

haggar (72771) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535561)

Well, at least I believe there is no malice in this "project".
I took the time to read the biographies of the people behind this project
Mark Bean [] and Lloyd Pye [] .
They seem to be people genuinely interested in this kind of stuff. I particuarly appreciated this page [] where Mr. Pye describes some discrepancies between micro-and-macroevolution. Very interesting reading.

Let me say that I don't really believe that humans are descending from aliens, but I do find some problems with Darwin's theory, too.
And I do believe the universe has many other intelligent creatures (well, if we count ourself intelligent creatures).

Whats on TV (0)

Tiro_Dianoga (68651) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535562)

He said not much's on tonight, but I disagree.

There's a contest of D.C. celebrities on C-SPAN, to see which one is funniest. Pretty good so far, lots of Monica jokes, lots of people making fools of selves. Senator Lieberman will be on in a few... [he's sadly one of the pro-censorship guys on Capitol Hill]

Sex with your eyeballs. (4)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535563)

Greetings, Earth being! I am an energy-based life form. I have transformed myself into this message so that I might communicate with you. Right now, I am having sex with your eyeballs. I know you are enjoying it because you are smiling!

Please moderate me to a +5 so that I may have sex with as many Slashdotters as possible.

Re:The pics (1)

quonsar (61695) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535564)

That alien looks like it could have sucked the chrome off an escape pod hitch...

"Rex unto my cleeb, and thou shalt have everlasting blort." - Zorp 3:16

Re:You would be suprised ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535565)

As you mentioned, the building blocks of DNA (and most other organic molecules) occur naturally. If they didn't then there couldn't be life here. So it wouldn't be surprising to find DNA-like molecules in extraterrestrial life. What is nearly impossible is that a different species would evolve a genome that is so similiar to humans that they could form a human-alien hybrid. You can't even make a human-ape hybrid so a hybrid with an extraterrestrial life form is completely out of the question.

Skull plate joins (1)

Jason Pollock (45537) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535566)

Did anyone else notice that the plates on the "alien" skull were in the same orientation to the human skull? If it were an alien, I would expect to see differences in the alignment/count of the joints.

Jason Pollock

Dr Funkenstein (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535567)

Parliament told us all about this years ago. The Clones of Dr. Funkenstein as well as Starchild were sent to recover the secret of the Funk from the Pyramids, against the wishes of Sir Nose D'Voidoffunk. We may now become One Nation Under A Groove!

REAL slow saturday night (1)

coreman (8656) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535568)

Anyone find it interesting that even though the lower jaw is totally missing, they have to make the skull almond shaped. It looks from the pictures that the back of the skull is extended but the front is rather normal. I do question the fact that these artifacts could be hidden by this girl and transported back with her. I can see the next Fox special now (or maybe a Spam and Infomercial) "Alien grave robbing for fun and profit".

After all the handling these skulls are supposed to have gone through over the last 70 years, I can't imagine there's been any contamination or biological contamination... DNA testing will probably show that O.J. is innocent in this case too.

Re:You would be suprised ... (3)

S_hane (86976) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535569)

Well, just a few updates on this particular experiment...

...first of all, on an "origin of life on earth" basis, the experiment was subsequently shown to have simulated the wrong starting conditions...and stimulating the RIGHT starting conditions didn't produce the molecules.

Second of all, the concentration of the molecules was w..a..a..y too low to do anything useful or interesting - basically the breakdown rate was too high to increase the concentration to anything even marginally useful.

However, neither of these facts have all that much to do with the topic at hand - and here's possibly some supporting evidence for what you're saying:

In a recent SciAm article, scientists discussed the possibility of the building blocks for life on earth coming from (wait for it...) Comets! And other space "junk"! Many of the comments were in support of this sort of scenario.

So there you go.

However, when it comes to this "alien", my alarm bells start ringing A LOT! Here's why:

* they're asking for money
* they're making the basic (and in my opinion STUPID) assumption that aliens must look like humans (more on this further down)
* they won't list anyone else who's actually seen the skull
* there are no independent witnesses who have come forward and claimed that they've seen the skull
* HOW on earth did a teenage girl get two skulls (which by all accounts must have been fairly fragile) out of Mexico without alerting the authorities...or her parents??????

All right... the most important point, I think, is that these people have decided that aliens must look (basically) like humans. Why?

Even on earth, bilateral symmetry was chosen essentially by accident - one of the huge explosions of life-forms (pre-Cambrian, I think, but could be wrong) had trilateral symmetry and other even wierder (to us) things popping up. It happened that, ON EARTH, bilateral symmetry was best, AT THAT POINT IN TIME. But what about Squids / Octopi / Starfish / other non bilaterally symmetric creatures? Or what about the majority of quadrapeds / other significantly different-looking creatures to us? I'll guarantee that if any of these creatures developed significant intelligence (I mean significant enough to develop space travel), they would NOT LOOK LIKE HUMANS!

And that's just on earth. On one planet, the form of the first race of creatures to develop rudimentary space-travel was decided by chance alone from a very large number of possibilities.

Why on EARTH (hehe) would aliens look similar? And I noted further down that this skull had a lot of the SAME bones (but deformed), the SAME foramens for blood vessels and nerves, the SAME muscular attachment points, etc etc etc - WHY WOULD ALIENS HAVE THE SAME BODILY STRUCTURE AS HUMANS WHEN THE TWO DEVELOPED COMPLETELY INDEPENDANTLY???????

I mean, take even two moderately different earthly creatures like reptiles and mammals and look at the differences in skull make-up!!!!!!

Well, that's my little piece of rant.

-Shane Stephens

Scam? (1)

Coward, Anonymous (55185) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535570)

As some have already mentioned, this could be a scam since the site says they are looking for funding. It's also interesting that the registrar of is also the registrar of [] which has been temporarily deactivated because he hasn't been paying his bills. Sounds like someone who needs money to me.

Yorick (1)

Mark Gordon (14545) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535571)

Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio.

(Horatio was standing next to Hamlet at the time.)

Re:Geee, I wonder what the realpurpose is ? (1)

Phil-14 (1277) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535572)

Actually, Carbon dating can work on more recent events. There's plenty of old organic matter of verifiable dating (tree rings and the like) that can be used to "calibrate" it.

Re:Deformed Human (1)

Woundweavr (37873) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535573)

Changelings? The rest yes, but being able to shape change? Probably not.

(Somethings people just make up).

I have a theory here... (2)

Codifex Maximus (639) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535574)

Also, I'm going WAY out on a limb but hey... why not?

I read a story not too long ago from the BBC newssite about how early bacteria were found to have existed even as far back as the molten stage of earth's history. Could life have formed so fast that it existed so early OR did it get seeded here from somewhere else? These bacteria live in the cooling lava fields close to the vent and at the mid-atlantic rift deep below the sea in environments close to what you'd expect in hell. You know how hardy bacteria can be when they're in a less than savory environment - right? They form cysts and get real hardy! Scientists have found bacteria deep in the earth's crust and so high in the atmosphere that it could nearly be called space... is there some kind of bacterial life that can exist in the void of space? I wouldn't be surprised.

These are all interesting questions - questions that lead to other questions... If all life on earth is related... is it to much to suppose that life, if it exists elsewhere, is not modeled on the same DNA type structure with the same types of proteins etc... etc... etc...

Also, is it too much to assume that if there are technological civilizations elsewhere that they may have the tech to do gene splicing or genetic design. Maybe they helped to modify our own genetic structure the way we breed animals? Maybe they are members of a race of humans that had a civilization prior to some distant ice-age and fled the earth...

Who knows? But it sure gets you to thinkin'

Re:You would be suprised ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535575)

I would also add that there are no expansion "cracks" in the skull... it looks solid and smooth, unlike the rest of the skull. This looks to me like someone took a program such as kai's power goo and enlaged the head. The terible quality of the picture (something from 1975 would not look that bad) has probably been added afterword in order to cover up the more obvious signs of the enlarging of the skull.

Bah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535576)

Maybe human deformity is caused by the aliens. Ever consider that? Perhaps trisomy is a method of communication -- chromosome 21, for example, has demonstrable radio transmission properties. Other genetic disorders could almost certainly be a part of this -- my grandpa's an alcoholic, and my cousin almost never leaves the house. Alien influence? Perhaps.

It's time to ask yourself what you truly believe.

Re:DNA and alien biology (1)

Razor Blue (11085) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535577)

Yeah, but if you look through the site you find an idea that neatly sidesteps the "non-human DNA argument." The aliens are the ones responsible for Earth life in the first place. They seeded life on the planet and made us, maybe in their image, to effectively terraform the planet. So... even if it does turn out to be basic human, normal DNA, it's still extraterrestrial in ultimate origin.

This is one to file away. Great material for creative writing.

Razor Blue, TechnoMage
shackled to tranquility / silenced for eternity / four walls no windows / in your bounding box

Re:Deformed Human (1)

Ender_the_Xenocide (71196) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535578)

"Changeling" doesn't mean "shapechanger". The changeling myth is that faeries would steal human children and leave changelings in their place. (See _A Midsummer Night's Dream_ and Yeats' "The Stolen Child". If reading poetry isn't your thing, try Loreena McKennitt's version.)

I don't recall if stories give changelings a consistent shape, or if they were supposed to be almost undetectable, or what. (If a misshapen child is born, though, blaming it on fairies stealing the real baby is a plausible origin of this myth.)

ObSF: Miles Vorkosigan. Although nobody really suspected him of being a fairy. (No, this is not a gay joke.)

Re:StarChild....hmmmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535579)

My question is, how many 15-18 year old girls would wander across a skull in a mine shaft, and stop to dig it up and take it home. Personally I'd run away screaming.

Featured on TV (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535580)

The skull was featured on one of the tabloid tv magazines (if I remember well, the border is getting so blurry these days..) on the other night. Some medical experts could not give any explanation to the degree of human malforming, others were absolutely reluctant to entertain the idea of Xtratrssl origin...

As my gradnfather used to say in cases like that: 'let's see what the DNA test tells us...'

Re:DNA and alien biology (1)

sinator (7980) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535581)

Someone likes lisp.

Re:So hard to believe? (1)

Mr Donkey (83304) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535582)

" are they impregnating anyone?"

You must also consider: are they getting impregnated by humans?

Re:So hard to believe? (1)

DAVEO (61670) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535583)

the manner in which it is presented also gives away the intent... it is too commercialized, flashy, anxious to convince us. the story of the mexican girl sounds made up as well.

if you look on the main page, where there is a picture of human skulls and the starchild skull, the starchild skull almost looks as if it was sides of 2 human skulls put together (look in the middle on the top, there is almost a split)

Either Alien or Deformed Human (2)

Codifex Maximus (639) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535584)

Take a look at a baby during the early stages of development and you will think yourself looking at an alien. Deformity is a likely candidate for this skull - if the skull is even real.

You can speculate all day but the forensic evidence is what will decide it. The features are human enough for me to lean toward deformed human.

I try to keep an open mind though...

Re:DNA and alien biology (1)

Ender_the_Xenocide (71196) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535585)

I would regard that as sufficient to make me believe in a Creator. The Creator coming down from heaven tomorrow and tapping me on the shoulder would also be sufficient. Neither one are gonna happen.

ObSF: Contact. Bad book, but I was impressed by Carl Sagan's proof of the existence of God.

Re:So hard to believe? (1)

DAVEO (61670) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535586)

one possibility that daveo has thought of to explain the amazing similarity between humans and the traditional alien figure, is the possibility that these are humans in the future, perhaps on another planet, that have performed time travel. maybe they have used genetic engineering? the trend seems right, less hair, more uniform colored skin, larger head, more intelligence, less digits. who knows?

there is also the chance that aliens planted life "seeds" here, but that seems not to fit in with evolution and our similarity to both the aliens and lesser organisms on earth.

Moderators are idiots (0)

sinator (7980) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535587)

Thisis FUNNY. FUNNY. Not a "First Post" message. Or is someone parsing through these pages with a perl/python script and automoderating down posts with the word "First" in them.

Who's on First?
Third Base!

No... that doesn't work. Someone funnify this post.

And Now.. the Truth. (2)

Nebulo (29412) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535588)

They're on the completely wrong track.

The "skull" represents the latest in safety helmets the inhabitants of Mars have designed to protect their fragile brains from the effects of Earth's music. They're planning an attack right now.

It should be an interesting war. I think this time, instead of exposing them to music, we should try network television. This should handily blind them, as well as turn them into slobbering consumers. Once they're all out shopping, all we have to do is saturate-bomb all the Wal-Marts and ShopKos. Problem solved.

"We are your friends... " (BOOM)

The Facial Reconstruction (1)

sterwill (972) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535589)

If I'm not mistaken, the art of dermal reconstruction from lone skulls is very much, well, an art. The procedure is the application of new "skin" material to match established human norms. Forensics specialists get good at this by seeing more of the way flesh is normally distributed over a human face. The practice is possible because people have measured how deep the skin is for humans; no one has done this for alien beings from other planets. For this reason, I can't see how one could objectively reconstruct an unknown face and claim any sort of accuracy.

One could apply the tissue like for a human reconstruction, and then what we'd see is exactly what we imagine when we look at the pictures of the skulls. The head will be bulbous, also tapered (STR). Our brains do much of this work automatically.


Re:DNA and alien biology (1)

Garg (35772) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535594)

Ah, but if DNA testing reveals the absence of DNA but it's still determined to be (once-)living tissue, that pretty much signifies an ET, right?

(Not that I believe this scam... I figure one of these dudes made the 'skull' in his ceramics class...)

Re:I found 4 artifacts this week alone! (2)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535595)

Not necessarily true, astronomers are constantly working with observations of the heavens, yet where's the latest UFO sighting from them? How about government agencies examining crashes, digging through the earth, and defending their airspace? What about other branches of science working in the field?

The difference is the UFO nut considers all these examples to be controlled by the MIB, which may or may not include Will Smith. Which is complete bullshit, any agency would kill for the PR to be the first one's talking or discovering aliens. Look at how excited NASA got with their Mars sample.

After the UFO nut is done explaining to you why the Grays, Blues, Purples, and Rainbows are fighting and the massive conspiracy behind their secret war, they'll be the first to pull up a photo from some other flake and claiming this is the REAL stuff d00dz!

I think the last person who will discover anything authentic about aliens will be the nuts. Their simply blinded by their zeal, the way a crazed Tennessee snake handling strychnine drinking fundie would make a lousy theologian. If anything it'll be an accidental discovery, most likely someone who doesn't have one strong positive or negative opinion about UFOs.

Re:So hard to believe? (2)

copito (1846) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535596)

As it turns out Columbus was wrong. He just got lucky. Intellectuals had known that the world was round ever since the Greeks. They even had a good estimate of the circumference. Columbus thought the circumference was much smaller. It wasn't, he just was lucky that there was another continent in the middle.

Re:So hard to believe? (1)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535597)

>Give science a chance, eh.

Science is footnotes, independently verifiable data, HARD evidence.
Unfortunately, nothing of the sort can be found in their report.
-- ----------------------------------------------
Vive le logiciel... Libre!!!

As Bones said: (1)

toast0 (63707) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535598)

My god man, drilling holes in his head is not the answer

(from star trek IV)

sorry that was offtopic

It's Cthulhu's Skull! (1)

1010011010 (53039) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535599)

Yeah! Just add a few dangling tenatacles where the nose should be and it's the spitting image [] ! I suppose this means he (it) isn't running for President any more. :( Now I have to vote for a lesser evil... Although, I think Al Gore is still in the race...

Okay, a few linkies, because after I was done laughing at the whole Cthulhu thing, I did a little searching. Disclaimer: I still think my Cthulhu theory is the correct one.
  • Cholula [] is apparently the site of the Temanapa Pyramid, a "major religious center before the Spanish arrived".
  • Apparently this involves Chihuahuas [] somehow. "Drop the Chalupa-cabra! Don't be a fool!"
  • Apparently Cholula was a holy city []
  • And there's a volcano [] there.
  • And Chewbaca is a wookie []
  • Therefore, my client is an alien [] !

Re:So hard to believe? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535600)

But BOZO the Clown **IS** a genius!!!

Giving science a chance (2)

copito (1846) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535603)

What I don't understand is how people challenging the scientific establishment are so quick to ignore major inconsistencies in their own work. This is particularily true in para-psychology. Admittedly, all scientific theories have flaws. Many of them even have known flaws. But if you are challenging a known flaw in an established theory, such as the inability of Newtonian gravitation to explain the retrograde motion of Mercury then the theory you espouse which corrects the error must have even fewer flaws, as does General Relativity.

In short, the harder you probe a new theory the more solid it must be, otherwise it deserves laughter. This does not suggest that one shouldn't have an open mind, but it means that a new idea or discovery needs to be exposed in the harshest possible light, not contrived demonstrations.

Re:Why I think it's not a hoax (1)

[Entropy] (87954) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535604)

I highly recommend you read Darwin's Dangerous Idea by Daniel Dennett. Darwin's "theories" have staggering implications that provide potential answers to more questions than you can imagine.

There is a lot more to Darwin's ideas than biological evolution.

Quotes from early on in the book:

"Darwin's idea can be used to dismantle and then rebuild a traditional structure of Western thought..." - he isn't talking about just creationism, either.

"Ever since Darwin, skepticism has been aimed at his implicit claim that the various processes of natural selection, in spite of their underlying mindlessness, are powerful enough to have done all the design work that is manifest in the world."

I'm only ~40% finished, but I remember Dennett mentioning that a future chapter will include a discussion about aliens and how Darwin's ideas can be used to deduce which characteristics we should expect to find.

Reading this book provides one with a similar experience as reading "Godel, Escher, Bach" (in fact, the author *mentions* Hofstadter and GEB) - it completely changes your perspective on the origins of not only humankind but the universe itself. READ IT! :)

Re:Picture? (1)

X-ViRGE (44659) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535606)

ah, thanks

Your right ... (1)

Bwah (3970) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535614)

I was more replying to the note that DNA couldn't/wouldn't occur in other life forms that live in a similar environment. You are of course way way correct on the evolution front ... :-)

Re:Deformed Human (1)

miahrogers (34176) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535615)

what is a changeling?

matisse:~$ cat .sig

Re:DNA and alien biology (1)

miahrogers (34176) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535616)

yes, when you consider we as humans are 98% exactly the same as dolphins in DNA. and that you are 99.9% exactly me in DNA, and we are both
%99.5 (perhaps) the exact same as this thing. it is very unlikely it would develop so similar when you concider the different gravities and solar conditions. Also the elepahnt man was human and developed the way he did from disease. this could easily be a result of prenatal disease or something else(like how crack babies or inbred children are deformed, the mother could have ingested chemicals etc)

matisse:~$ cat .sig

Alien conspiracy (2)

copito (1846) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535617)

Not only is their an alien readingh /. but he has a karma of 32 []
That's a simple transliteration of 23 for those keeping score at home.


Beowulf Cluster (1)

mutagen (30942) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535618)

This was very interesting, but it is not clear to me how alien skulls would be used for a Beowulf cluster.

Del Close's last stage role (offtopic) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1535619)

Now there was a thespian. He wrote it into his will. Not every actor has the balls to play Yorick!

The Boy Who Cried "Alien" (4)

antizeus (47491) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535621)

It just sickens me when I see people interpret the slightest weirdness as a some sort of extraterrestrial. What sort of foolishness is this? First of all, the vast distances between stars make most interstellar travel unfeasible. Even if some people from another star system sent a ship here, then where is the other evidence? Any realistic ship would have to be a big multi-generational affair with lots of entities on it, so where are all the other skulls?

No, the obvious answer is that this skull is from a Dero, one of the evil dwarves who live under the hollow earth.

oops (1)

antizeus (47491) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535622)

It seems that I have a default score of 2 now. Heaven only knows why. Now I have to remember to self-moderate my more inane posts.

Alien Morphology (2)

maynard (3337) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535625)

Even on earth, bilateral symmetry was chosen essentially by accident - one of the huge explosions of life-forms (pre-Cambrian, I think, but could be wrong) had trilateral symmetry and other even wierder (to us) things popping up. It happened that, ON EARTH, bilateral symmetry was best, AT THAT POINT IN TIME. But what about Squids / Octopi / Starfish / other non bilaterally symmetric creatures? Or what about the majority of quadrapeds / other significantly different-looking creatures to us? I'll guarantee that if any of these creatures developed significant intelligence (I mean significant enough to develop space travel), they would NOT LOOK LIKE HUMANS!
Excellent point. However, since bilateral symmetry continues to work well in our environment, there's no reason to exclude the possibility of "it" independently evolving to a similar bipedal form, though through a totally different evolutionary path. We can only guess, by extrapolating morphological differences in closed ecological communities such as the Galapagos Islands, or Australia, against common species elsewhere, that since similar forms repeat on Earth along fairly divergent paths, such forms are possible, and desirable in many conditions, not just here but in similar ecological niches all over the universe as well. Though all evolved from a different branch of life's family tree, each evolutionary history forged an anatomy between the kangaroo, dinosaur, bird, and human whereby all walk as bipeds.

Pre-Cambrian -- yes. Stephen J. Gould wrote a nice book called "Wonderful Life" about the Pre-Cambrian explosion that presents a litany of amazingly weird fossils containing phylum which are long since extinct. Most probably died off from bad luck, the environment changing on them faster than they could biologically react, in an evolutionary sense, and BAM! -- they're gone; a view of extinction as a biological failure to change through self-replication to meet a new environmental stress -- there's a threshold for all self-replicating systems (no matter what the substrate) where evolution fails because the requisite change required for survival exceeds the time constraints of the organisms replication cycle. For example, an unfortunate volcanic eruption, meteor, or fast weather change -- no way to screw one's way out of that mess -- and it's toast for good. Some weird-ass shit in there; definitely worth a read.

Not that this explains "Little Grey Men" and their -- ahem -- invasive exams. Ouch!

Re:The pics (1)

TheMeld (13880) | more than 14 years ago | (#1535626)

Hmm... Looking at these pictures reminds me of something...

Aah, yes! How many of you have or are taking Acutane (it's an acne medication)? Inside the packages are strong warnings to women NOT to take it while they are pregnant because of the risk of severe congenital birth defects. It even has some pictures of what the baby might look like. The pictures are INCREDIBLY similar to the skull shown in those pictures. Oversized skull with all the facial features pinched down and in the middle.

I for one think these people are a bit more objective in their analysis than many alien fanatics, but I don't think that there is much of any chance that this has anything to do with aliens.

And if there is an area where barren women suddenly have wacky children that die young, it seems to me that it is far more likely that there is a recessive trait that manifests itself as such conception problems and birth defects. They say the skull has problems that would interfere with normal life. Looks like it *did*.
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