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Sony Readying for Larger HDD PS3 ?

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the battle-with-the-elite dept.

Sony 117

Bloomberg reports that Sony may be considering a new SKU for the PS3 with a larger hard drive. This follows closely on the heels of the announcement of the Xbox 360 Elite and the 120 gig Xbox HD. No other details are provided, in a story primarily about news of increased profits as PS3 sales continue to rise. " Chief Executive Officer Howard Stringer targets an operating profit margin of 5 percent by March 2008, about double the current margin. Tokyo-based Sony confirmed today that it will only sell a more expensive version of its PlayStation 3 game console in North America, a strategy it adopted for the European market to bolster margins. 'Profit margin will probably exceed 5 percent if Sony doesn't lower the price of PlayStation 3,' Hitoshi Kuriyama, an analyst at Merrill Lynch & Co. wrote in a report dated yesterday. He rates the stock a buy. Shares of Sony gained 28 percent this year, compared with a 0.8 percent advance in the Nikkei 225 Stock Average."

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117 comments

Priced to move too! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18783819)

One more POS from Sony that will miss the mark.

A more expensive PS3? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18783827)

Are they starting a mortgage division also, so more people can afford them?

Enough with the SKU! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18783859)

What's with the need to refer to different models as SKU? Do people think it makes them sound hip and informed?

Even the original article doesn't refer to this new model as an SKU. I'm not in the industry, I don't do marketing, and I don't run a store so please stop using the damn term.

Re:Enough with the SKU! (3, Funny)

falsified (638041) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784005)

Duh. Didn't you know insisting on sounding like the shift manager at a Cabela's was the new black?

Re:Enough with the SKU! (2, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784261)

"What's with the need to refer to different models as SKU? Do people think it makes them sound hip and informed?"

I'd imagine because it's the right term for it. I suppose they could call it "black box ... oooh shiny!!" so they wouldn't lose you.

Re:Enough with the SKU! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18784527)

How about "a new model" , aye dickhead!

Re:Enough with the SKU! (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784609)

Model? Version?

SKU isn't a word, thus it cannot be the right word.

Re:Enough with the SKU! (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785059)

"SKU isn't a word, thus it cannot be the right word."

Wow that rationalization gave me a headache. I hope you never use the term laser.

Re:Enough with the SKU! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18785647)

Hey Dickhead, SKU is already taken, heard of a Stock Keeping Unit??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Keeping_Unit [wikipedia.org]

Enough with your bullshit.

Re:Enough with the SKU! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18786671)

Fuck you Mod, the guy is a troll, nothing more!

Re:Enough with the SKU! (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 6 years ago | (#18786723)

"Fuck you Mod, the guy is a troll, nothing more!"

You're the one blowing a gasket over the use of a term that's not only common, but useful in this context. Grow up.

Re:Enough with the SKU! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18790153)

"Hey Dickhead, SKU is already taken, heard of a Stock Keeping Unit??"

I imagine everybody has, considering they're using the letters SKU as an abbreviation for Stock Keeping Unit. You might have been able to discover that if your anus wasn't in the way.

Meh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18783889)

I've stopped caring about what Sony does about 4 months ago.

Yet here you are posting (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 6 years ago | (#18789967)

Right - if you really cared you wouldn't have even entered the threads, let alone post. You obviously care a great deal. Let it go.

Re:Yet here you are posting (1)

The PS3 Will Fail (998952) | more than 6 years ago | (#18791015)

People should care about Sony. You never know who they're going to sue next. I mean, look at what they did to lik-sang.com.

Still on that old Saw? (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 6 years ago | (#18791393)

It seems like a person would get tired of a one-note UID powered by hate. Myself, I like all three consoles - you should have more of an open mind. You cant have many friends with a bitter attitude, at least not friends you'd want to keep.

Re:Still on that old Saw? (1)

The PS3 Will Fail (998952) | more than 6 years ago | (#18791475)

"Myself, I like all three consoles - you should have more of an open mind."
I own a 360 and a Wii. I have not seen the PS3 doing anything that has made me feel like I am missing anything. And it feels good not having any Sony products in my home.

"You cant have many friends with a bitter attitude, at least not friends you'd want to keep."
What is this? High school? Oh my goodness - you told me I don't have any friends. You really showed me.

Re:Still on that old Saw? (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#18791917)

Damn those evil Sony bastards!

I'm glad I support nice friendly companies like Microsoft!

Whatever. If you like the games on Console Y, more power to you. But if you try to tell me that one of these companies is a better company than the others, I'm here to tell you that all three companies have less than stellar records. All three companies are fucked up. And if you pretend otherwise, you're being a fanboy.

Possible downgrade for the rest of the system... (3, Informative)

jonnythan (79727) | more than 6 years ago | (#18783891)

"Sony also indicated that additional changes may be on the way, not all of them good. Users may want to gobble up PS3 units now, for fear that Sony actually starts to make some electronics cutbacks to curb their current $1.7 billion (yes, with a 'B') loss currently on the books for PS3. Sony stated that it would not pull back on the Cell processor or BD (Blu-ray Disc) drive or networking ability - but nearly everything else is fair game for either enhancements (plan on premium costs) or removal/downsizing (think memory/cache and possibly secondary chipsets.)"

Source: http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/sony -adds-larger-drive-to-ps3.html [audioholics.com]

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (4, Insightful)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784569)

What's left to pull?

We know that the PS3 over in Europe already lost its PS2 hardware in favor of a software emulator for PS2 game backwards compatibility. It's only a matter of time before that change shows up in PS3s elsewhere. However, I would think the next things to go would be the useless card reader (really now, does ANYONE plan on using their PS3 as a photo album?) and the WiFi addon. Sony could charge separately for those while still keeping the price of the PS3 the same.

Furthermore, I'm confused by the article's insinuation that Sony could actually *change* the PS3's core specs by removing memory or cache. This isn't a generic PC we're talking about here. Games developed for consoles are very tightly tied to the underlying hardware. This allows them to get better performance because you don't have a full blown OS doing hardware abstraction. At best, such a change to the hardware like this would result in an unacceptable loss of performance in a game, and at worst, might prevent the game from working at all

This isn't even addressing the issue that the PS3 is already arguably starved for RAM, AND has a slower media drive on top of that.

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (2, Interesting)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785021)

We know that the PS3 over in Europe already lost its PS2 hardware in favor of a software emulator for PS2 game backwards compatibility. It's only a matter of time before that change shows up in PS3s elsewhere.


You say that like it's a negative thing. I wish they'd announce whether the older units were going to support the newer software emulation. It actually *adds features*, and when the compatibility improves it will probably become the preferred emulation. I won't buy a PS3 right now, since there's a chance I may end up stuck with the non-upgradable, non-upscaling hardware emulation. (Well, that and there are no good games for the PS3 yet.)

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (2, Informative)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 6 years ago | (#18786971)

Does the software emulator actually upscale the graphics? I know that originally, Sony wanted to use a software emulator, and that it was planned to upscale the PS2 game graphics.

When they couldn't get adequate performance from the emulator in time for the launch, they switched to the hardware solution. With the European launch they switched back to the emulator but I haven't heard it does anything for the games.

Even if this were true, you're still looking at a trade off: Better compatibility (hardware solution) or better graphics (software emulator). Currently the emulator only supports a small percentage of the total number of titles available. Depending on how you count, it's even worse than the Xbox 360's emulator. Even then, the PS3's hardware solution still had problems with many PS2 games.

Either way, it really seems like people will be holding on to their PS2s a lot longer than they did for their PS1's.

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 6 years ago | (#18787149)

For me it's not a tradeoff. I already own a hardware PS2 (Same one since release day), and I don't see any reason to buy another one. The only incentive for me to "upgrade" is if it adds features. Otherwise "PS2 support" is just text on the packaging.

You'd have to show me some numbers to convince me it's "worse than the Xbox 360's emulator". The only numbers I've seen that could suggest that compared the European support list against the US release list to create a meaningless statistic. The official number from Sony is 72%.

As for upscaling, it's supported on a subset of the supported PS2 games, and supposedly additional support will be added with future firmware updates. The hardware PS2 "emulation" doesn't upscale *any* PS2 games.

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

Sancho (17056) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785833)

Games developed for consoles are very tightly tied to the underlying hardware. This allows them to get better performance because you don't have a full blown OS doing hardware abstraction. At best, such a change to the hardware like this would result in an unacceptable loss of performance in a game, and at worst, might prevent the game from working at all
This would be true if there were any games which pushed the console to its limits right now. I doubt there are any--you normally don't see these types of games early in the console's life. Sony could /probably/ get away with slight reductions without too much backlash.

Another issue to consider is that with so few games currently available, the number of affected games will be relatively small in a few years. Publishers won't target the original console, because they need to get maximum exposure for the game. They'll target the reduced console.

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

Applekid (993327) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785985)

What about what's in development right now?

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

Sancho (17056) | more than 6 years ago | (#18786117)

If Sony has plans like this, they've probably notified the major development houses already.

Besides, it's still pretty early in this console's lifetime. We won't see many games that stretch the console's limits for a few years, yet.

Not for lack of trying... (1)

Junta (36770) | more than 6 years ago | (#18786613)

Current games are truly not using the full capability of the system, but it's probably not because they are failing to use enough memory, etc. It's probably because they consume the resources inefficiently and exhaust them needlessly. That means any move to reduce resources will only exacerbate any performance issues they may see today.

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 6 years ago | (#18788169)

That argument is nonsensical. The fact that games don't use 100% of the PS3's capabilities does not mean that they still run after Sony removes caches or RAM. They won't remove anything connected to playing PS3 games.

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

fistfullast33l (819270) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785983)

Umm, a few points need to be made here:

I would think the next things to go would be the useless card reader (really now, does ANYONE plan on using their PS3 as a photo album?)

The card reader is actually quite helpful for transferring files to and from your PSP and PC. When you download the PS1 games from PSN, how are you supposed to get htem to your PSP? Via the card reader, of course. You can also move movies and music this way as well, unless you want to sit down and design a website that both consoles can view to download music and movies individually, but that sounds annoying.

This isn't even addressing the issue that the PS3 is already arguably starved for RAM, AND has a slower media drive on top of that.

Arguably being the key word here. I haven't seen any developer familiar with the PS3 actually complain about the amount of memory available to them. Obviously, Linux performance suffers a bit under the hypervisor, but that's because Sony is hiding the graphics chip, not because there isn't enough RAM available. The claims of lack of memory came out of the revelation that Oblivion was caching to the hard drive to improve load times, I believe, but Bethesda said that the same thing was done on the 360 as well.

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 6 years ago | (#18787873)

Arguably being the key word here. I haven't seen any developer familiar with the PS3 actually complain about the amount of memory available to them. Obviously, Linux performance suffers a bit under the hypervisor, but that's because Sony is hiding the graphics chip, not because there isn't enough RAM available. The claims of lack of memory came out of the revelation that Oblivion was caching to the hard drive to improve load times, I believe, but Bethesda said that the same thing was done on the 360 as well.

I haven't either. I've seen lots of XBox 360 fanboys complain though. Fact is that the PS3 has 512Mb, it's just segmented into video and main memory. Additionally some memory is reserved for the OS, but the amount is quite conservative and probably anticipates what Sony *might* need for the OS not what they actually use. They may loosen the reserved memory TRC for future games as it becomes clear what functionality to expose through it. It certainly hasn't stopped the PS3 from already having games which have massive levels - games like Motorstorm & Resistance have some enormous areas in that wouldn't often see in PC titles let alone in a console. And like you say Oblivion works just fine despite what the naysayers would have people say before release. I expect in time we'll also see all the Oblivion expansions appear too including Shivering Isles.

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 6 years ago | (#18788203)

Bethesda said that the same thing was done on the 360 as well

And that would be because the 360 is starved for RAm as well :-)

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 6 years ago | (#18789629)

I hadn't thought about the PSP... However, the card reader for the PS3 does not cover PS1/PS2 memory cards - that's a separate product that isn't even included with the $600 model. The card reader only supports things like Sony Memory sticks, SD cards, etc. - not Playstation Memory Cards (TM)

(yes, I realize the term "memory card" is severly overused here.)

As for memory in the system, my understanding is that the 360 has twice the memory of the PS3, although the PS3's memory is faster. However when you couple that with the PS3's slower media drive, it seems to me that more memory would have helped. (then again, isn't more memory always a GOOD thing? ;) With the 360, games can't assume they have a HDD to use for caching purposes, whereas every PS3 will have a HDD available. I've heard that Oblivion on the PS3 has faster laodtimes than the 360 because of this, but neither are as good as a good gaming PC which seems to be a better buy than a PS3 nowadays :-)

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

Manmademan (952354) | more than 6 years ago | (#18791121)

The PSP uses memory stick Duo's. The "playstation memory card" is pretty much dead. This is kind of a moot point as the PSP doesn't need to use the card to transfer files. It will act as a USB storage device OR link to the PS3 via Wi-Fi. Also: the PS3 and the 360 both have the same amount of RAM at 512Megs each.

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#18791959)

Both have 512 megs of memory. The PS3's memory is split ahead of time into system memory and GPU memory. The memory on the 360 must be used for both system and GPU purposes, but isn't split ahead of time. Microsoft claims this is an advantage, while Sony claims their method is better.

PS3 supports USB mass storage (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 6 years ago | (#18789889)

You can use any USB storgage device with a PS3 - and that includes attaching CF cards via a USB CF reader (or other kinds of media cards). The media reader truly is a vegistal part of the console.

The USB port was included on all models of the PS3. After all, it's how you charge the controllers...

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 6 years ago | (#18787749)

We know that the PS3 over in Europe already lost its PS2 hardware in favor of a software emulator for PS2 game backwards compatibility. It's only a matter of time before that change shows up in PS3s elsewhere.

It works quite well so I wouldn't sweat the change. I agree you should pick up the hardware BC model if you have an obscure and large collection of titles that you still play. Otherwise software BC works very well. I've seen some minor texture glitches in some of the games I've tried for the most part they play exactly like they do on the PS2 - better in fact since you get 576p. Most major titles are supported and even demanding ones like God of War appear to work very well. I expect that subsequent firmware updates as well as introduction to the US & Japanese regions will make the BC even better.

I use the photo stuff (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 6 years ago | (#18788123)

really now, does ANYONE plan on using their PS3 as a photo album

It's really all I use the PS3 for at the moment. Quite often, friends come over to play Wii. I usually take pictures of them jumping and flailing around, and we then watch them using the PS3.

Congrats, you just built a 20 GB PS3 (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 6 years ago | (#18789931)

However, I would think the next things to go would be the useless card reader (really now, does ANYONE plan on using their PS3 as a photo album?) and the WiFi addon.

Congratulations, you just described the 20GB version of the PS3. The model they just pulled? It would seem to make the changes you suggest rather unlikely.

The media readers may go at some point (you can still attach any USB mass storage device for transfers) but the WiFi will most likley stay to make it easier for customers to hook into networks, which is a step ahead of the 360 in my books. I was disappointed they took out the 20GB model though as I had planned to simply replace the HD and hook into a wired network anyway, reducing the cost substantially. Perhaps 20GB units will be cheaper on eBay.

Re:Possible downgrade for the rest of the system.. (1)

Rolgar (556636) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785263)

The Big Ploy, Read as: "In 6 months, what you'll be able to buy will be inferior to what you can buy today. Run out and buy one now if you are considering getting one in the future, because you won't want to be stuck with one of our downgraded models."

It sounds like Sony is getting more and more desperate to get units out the door, that now they're threatening to stick their customers with inferior hardware if they don't buy soon. That's practically blackmail.

How about spending R&D time/money on games? (5, Insightful)

coug_ (63333) | more than 6 years ago | (#18783927)

I'm sorry, but I don't see why Sony is wasting their time on this. The hardware on the PS3 has *never* been the problem. Every complaint about the PS3 has been related to the games themselves and how there isn't really a single "killer app" for the system.

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18784205)

Oh yeah? No killer app you say?
Well, don't forget about Poland!

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (1)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784257)

Well there are complaints about the hardware but they are usually not about how limited the hardware is but are about how expensive the hardware is.

Back in the day, people bought the PS2 without any game that was nearly as good as Resistance and continued to buy the PS2 until games actually started to become available (roughly 6 to 9 months after the release of the PS2). Gamers are not buying the PS3 because at $600 most gamers realize that they can buy 10 to 20 games for a platform they already own, upgrade their PC, or buy the Wii or XBox 360 with several games; non-gamers are not buying the PS3 because you have to be pretty dedicated to a hobby to be willing to spend $600 up front on it.

Because PS2 was a DVD player (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785617)

Back in the day, people bought the PS2 without any game that was nearly as good as Resistance and continued to buy the PS2 until games actually started to become available (roughly 6 to 9 months after the release of the PS2).

For one thing, people remembered the Dreamcast-era FUD that Sony slung against Sega Dreamcast; the PS2 wasn't as much of a graphical leap over the DC as Sony had claimed. By the time Microsoft's Dreamcast 360 [slashdot.org] came out, people became wise to Sony's reputation for alleged false advertising.

But perhaps more importantly, people bought PS2 because the PS2 was priced such that one could buy a DVD-Video player ($200) and a replacement for your worn-out original PlayStation system ($100) and get compatibility with the PS2 game library for effectively free. So why aren't people buying a PS3 for use as a cheap Blu-ray Disc player? For one thing, fewer killer titles are available because the PS3 was introduced earlier in BD's life than the PS2 was introduced in DVD's life; even Casino Royale 7 is no Matrix. For another thing, there isn't nearly as much of a convenience advantage of BD over DVD as there was of DVD over VHS.

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (1)

LoudMusic (199347) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784283)

I'm sorry, but I don't see why Sony is wasting their time on this. The hardware on the PS3 has *never* been the problem. Every complaint about the PS3 has been related to the games themselves and how there isn't really a single "killer app" for the system.
AMEN! I've got my $660 ready to go for a PS3 and a full release of Gran Turismo. Where's my game? Same as every other GT title, still being worked on.

When there are ten PS3 titles I want to play I'll buy a PS3. But frankly there are zero currently. Either I've changed or the game industry has - either way I have no reason to buy a PS3. I don't have much of a reason to buy an XBox 360 right now either. And I'm told the Wii games aren't overwhelming either - somewhat gimmicky.

I want good party games like Fuzion Frenzy, good racing games like Gran Turismo, great story games like Ico and Prince of Persia, and a few shooters like Halo and Ghost Recon. First to provide gets my money.

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (1)

TKOTolman (1089049) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785655)

Either I've changed or the game industry has - either way I have no reason to buy a PS3. I don't have much of a reason to buy an XBox 360 right now either. And I'm told the Wii games aren't overwhelming either - somewhat gimmicky. I want good party games like Fuzion Frenzy, good racing games like Gran Turismo, great story games like Ico and Prince of Persia, and a few shooters like Halo and Ghost Recon. First to provide gets my money.
You want a Wii thats all it is (a party system.) I got a Wii and I am going to get a PS3 as soon as 1.The price drops or 2. they have 10 games that I want to play or 3. Someone gives me one... anyone?

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (1)

Sancho (17056) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785971)

Many Wii games aren't gimmicky. Warioware is quite fun, and Super Paper Mario is a blast (though it barely uses the Wii's features, and could easily have been a Gamecube game). Zelda is fun, too, but has the same issue (could be--and in fact, is, a GC game, but the added aiming features of the Wii remote are a nice touch). Sonic and the Secret Rings initially feels gimmicky, but with time, the controls seem fairly natural to me.

More games will come. Same for the PS3. Eventually, there will be many games worth playing on both systems. Personally, though, the extra $350 for the PS3 just isn't worth it right now, even though it means that I won't get to play Final Fantasy 13.

The Wii ain't a gimmick (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 6 years ago | (#18788303)

(Obligatory disclaimer: I own both a PS3 and a Wii)

Yes, there are Wii games that are "gimmicky" (in that they don't offer much depth, but rely on the novelty of the controller). Kororinpa would be one of these. But most games aren't gimmicky at all. Games like "Godfather: Blackhand Edition" show that the controller isn't a gimmick. It's a legitimate successor to the "old" gamepad. In fact, it ads so much to the game if used correctly that it can turn a mediocre game (such as the "traditional" version of Godfather) into an utterly awesome experience.

This sounds like hyperbole, but it's true. Play Godfather. This is the game that convinced me that the Wii is for real, and that it will win this generation.

As I've said somewhere else in this discussion, the PS3 has been relegated to the position of slideshow server for pictures taken during sessions of Wii gaming. The PS3 is a great console, but the games quite simply aren't there. Motorstorm is great entertainment for a week, and I don't really like FPS, so I'm fresh out of PS3 games. The Wii games, on the other hand, just keep on coming.

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (2, Informative)

nuzak (959558) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784417)

Every complaint about the PS3 has been related to the games themselves and how there isn't really a single "killer app" for the system.

They're in the pipe -- GTA4 would sell one for me.

Most of the complaints I've heard from actual owners of the PS3 have to do with its lack of scaling. Playing a 720p game on a 1080-only screen? Tough luck bitch, it's 480i for you. Playing a 1080 blu-ray movie on a 720-only screen? You're back to 480i.

They can find time to update the firmware for a goddam folding@home client though. Screw them.

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (1)

powerlord (28156) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785513)

Most of the complaints I've heard from actual owners of the PS3 have to do with its lack of scaling. Playing a 720p game on a 1080-only screen? Tough luck bitch, it's 480i for you. Playing a 1080 blu-ray movie on a 720-only screen? You're back to 480i.


This is only a problem for 1080i screens that don't support 720p (all 12 of them), and likewise 720p screens that don't support 1080i/p (are there even any of these?).

Yes, I'm exaggerating slightly, and this is certainly an issue that affects only the most bleeding edge early adopters (I have friends with a set that supports 1080i but not 720p ... because the bought it three years ago).

As for the Folding@Home client, hey, its a nice idea to give back to the community, and they've also addressed a number of issues that existed with Bluetooth devices, added background downloading and a download queue (should have been there at launch, but its there now), and a number of games are in the pipeline (MKII was released last thursday, either Super Rub-A-Dub or Calling All Cars are set to debut this thursday).

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (1)

Darkfred (245270) | more than 6 years ago | (#18786739)

This is only a problem for 1080i screens that don't support 720p (all 12 of them), and likewise 720p screens that don't support 1080i/p (are there even any of these?).


For first and second generation HDTVs this is 99% of them. In fact dual mode support only became common in the last year with sub $2000 systems. The reason is that ALL output devices except playstation 3 support proper scaling, thats just the way the standards work, the TVs are fixed sizes and the devices scale accordingly.

And for this reason I cannot even contemplate buying a ps3 as I have a nice 54" screen that would be unusable for half of the games, and I am not about to buy another one just 2 years later. And for the record my 360 does this seemlessly, i have never had it go out of sync, or reduce resolution.

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (1)

powerlord (28156) | more than 6 years ago | (#18787205)

I'm assuming your only talking about the 1080i HDTVs that don't support 720p (since I don't know of any 720p sets that were made without 1080i support).

The reason is that ALL output devices except playstation 3 support proper scaling, thats just the way the standards work, the TVs are fixed sizes and the devices scale accordingly.


Actually the reason is because 1080i was the ONLY standard for HDTV when the initial models came out. Once 720p was finally standardized, that started showing up in sets with 1080i conversion. Likewise we're now seeing 1080p and whatever follow-on resolution people come up with (whether we need it or not).

I would agree that the PS3 should be able to scale a 720p signal to 1080i, and if this affects you, then by all means, don't buy one, however to claim that it is a widespread and pervasive problem ignores the fact that the only people who it touches are those who were on the leading edge of HDTV two years ago, and that with the increasing adoption rate of HDTV, those users represent a smaller and smaller percentage of a rapidly growing community.

This is not meant to minimize your experience. I am glad the 360 works for you, and I certainly hope the PS3 adds the ability, but it is much less of a "make or break" feature for most people (yourself obviously excluded).

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (1)

The PS3 Will Fail (998952) | more than 6 years ago | (#18791591)

"They're in the pipe -- GTA4 would sell one for me."
Buy a 360 then. They're a better value and will still be around in 5 years.

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (1)

robyannetta (820243) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785307)

I'm sure Sony 'has a reason' for this if it's true.

I *can* see this happening if they're planning on releasing an MMORPG like an exclusive PS3 version of Everquest or something. The only reason I bought my original PS2 was Everquest Online Adventures.

Re:How about spending R&D time/money on games? (1)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785419)

The hardware in the PS3 is the reason the price tag is so high.

The price tag being so high is the reason so few people are buying them.

So few people buying them is the reason so few companies are developing for the platform.

So few companies developing for the platform is the reason why there hasn't been a "killer app" for the PS3 yet.

huh? (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784033)

a new SKU for the PS3

This just goes to show you, kids. If you believe in yourself, drink your SKU, stay in drugs, and don't do milk, you can get work!

Re:huh? (1)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785945)

Kids these days are too familiar with marketing terms and it allows consumers to actually understand and question, and therefore sort out the bullshit from, the product marketing. Throwing terms like "SKU" out there will hopefully once again baffle consumers and get them to buy crap they don't want for reasons that aren't true.

Genius (-1, Troll)

otacon (445694) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784049)

Because when people won't buy your overpriced garbage, the stratedy to sell more is to obviously make a more expensive version...it would be worth it if it came with a good game though

It makes sense... (1)

solar_blitz (1088029) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784051)

If you want to download games large enough to fit onto CDs, and if they still want that thing to be an entertainment center to download television shows and movies, then yeah, I'd consider having a hard drive a bit larger than 60 Gigs.

Why? (3, Insightful)

FunkyELF (609131) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784073)

I thought that the 8 and 10 gig drives in the original xboxes were big.

The fact is that the game studios have had the ability to extend their games add new maps, allow users to create their own race tracks and all that stuff with the xbox but it never happened.

Other than game saves and music for in-game listening, what were these hard drives used for?

I understand people running Linux on their PS3 to do things like web browsing or other casual use. The only people who would really want a bigger hard drive are will figure out how to upgrade their hard drive anyway just like they did on the xbox.

Personally, I think it is kind of a bad idea for Sony to put a hard drive bigger than a Blu Ray disc in their system for pirating reasons. Not that you couldn't mount a network drive and store the movie on another computer anyway.

Re:Why? (3, Insightful)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784339)

The XBox and PS3 hard drives aren't just for saves or new material. You can download demos, videos, even games (Castlevania: SotN takes up a decent chunk of space I believe...) and who knows what else to them.

Thing is, the XBox and PS3 are being marketed not just as video game consoles, but as media centers and as media centers they need to be able to store large amounts of media content. Once you start pulling off HD video content, need for space starts rising.

Re:Why? (0, Flamebait)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784563)

Translation of the parent post out of brainwashed consumer lemming speak:

The hard drives are a means of selling you content that you can't resell as used. It adds absolutetly no other functionality that you wouldn't have if said media was on an optical disk.

Re:Why? (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784927)

More like marketing lemming speak. Frankly, if I wanted to download an HD movie trailer I'd use my PC and not just because I don't have a PS360.

Given what Sony and MS are trying to accomplish with this console iteration, I can understand putting larger drives in. On the level above that one though, I think the whole plan they've set out with is off base, hard drive or not.

Re:Why? (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785397)

Well clearly Microsoft's sole care this generation is positioning DirectX and Windows Media as essential technologies for downloadable and interactive content, thus maintaining the Windows monopoly for another decade.

I haven't quite figured out what Sony's motivation is... Presumably to make money from hardware sales and software license fees just like last generation... But maybe just to have BluRay win? They're clearly not fighting the same battle as Microsoft though. They're just fighting on the same battlefield.

Re:Why? (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 6 years ago | (#18786289)

Microsoft's long term goal in this is to have a microsoft box at the core of a home's media center. Their first attempt was, aptly, 'XP Media Center.' Basically, they want in the living room, and they want in badly.

Sony is just trying to keep MS from accomplishing this goal, to make their own 'media center' box using the Playstation brand.

Re:Why? (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 6 years ago | (#18786545)

Microsoft's long term goal in this is to have a microsoft box at the core of a home's media center. Their first attempt was, aptly, 'XP Media Center.' Basically, they want in the living room, and they want in badly.


Sorry, don't buy it. I don't buy it because it doesn't make any sense.

That's too much work. They don't want to sell "boxes". They've never wanted to sell boxes. They want cash for nothing. They can't maintain their high margins with your theoretical plan, and their stock price would tank.

All they want is for their DRM to become the standard. Then they can license it. In fact you basically couldn't publish commercial content anymore without giving them money. Then they have more cash, and can use the proprietary technology as another prop for their cash cow (Windows).

The only place Microsoft wants "in" is your wallet.

Re:Why? (1)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785191)

I guess you missed the part about the new consoles being positioned as media centers. That doesn't just mean downloading HD content (currently not that practical for most people). It means TiVo like DVR functionality. On HD that takes a huge piece of disk space. If their aim is convergence around their respective platforms then they need to provide DVR in HD.

Re:Why? (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785339)

It means TiVo like DVR functionality.


On a device with no video input...

How do you propose they do that without downloading content?

Re:Why? (1)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 6 years ago | (#18787283)

USB tuner add-on. Wouldn't be difficult in the least.

Re:Why? (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 6 years ago | (#18787405)

Two things:

First, no such add-on is being sold by Microsoft... If their goal was to go in that direction, don't you think they would sell the add on?

Second, The hard drive sizes are pathetic, even in the "Elite". They would make for a poor DVR.

Additionally, there is no business case for such support beyond internet rumor and analyst speculation.

Re:Why? (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#18792015)

Both Sony and Microsoft not only are pushing to sell music downloads, but TV and movie downloads.

If your console is a media center, a larger HDD really makes sense.

Microsoft says, take ages to download a movie to your 360, delete it to make room on your HDD, and download it again later if you need it later.

Sony could trim some hardware fat to make room for eventual price cuts and that is fine. Or they can look for a cheap product that creates artificial value.

Microsoft already set the stage with the Elite unit, where they want to charge $200 for a cheap, run of the mill HDD. Now Sony can do the same.

Ditch the wifi, and card reader. Now you have a system basically like the $500 core model which is pretty reasonable. Start selling the $600 unit at the $500 price and market it against the $470 elite $360. Meanwhile, the new larger HDD ships in a new SKU at $600 so Sony can recoup some financial losses.

If the HDD is even larger than what Microsoft is selling in the elite, some people many even buy it for Linux use, and for media center use.

FYI (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18787771)

The FREE 1/2 High Definition episode of South Park to promote the new season took up a GB of space. HD South Park? I know, I thought it was funny too, but man did those edges look clean. Game trailers can easily be a few hundred MB each, and free game demos (which are almost complete games in and of themselves Phantasy Star Universe) are often a GB. To say nothing of being able to download other random crap if one so chooses.

Me I'm off to rip a bunch of Marvin Gaye CDs onto my 360, pick up a bottle of Jergen's lotion and rent Dead Or Alive Extreme 2.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18787437)

SotN is about 95 MB. They cut out the movies and the audio is slightly lower quality. I don't know what this ghastly "edited sound effect" is all about that people have been complaining about...the only real difference I've noticed that wasn't due to reduced audio quality was the sound of the Crissaegrim swing. Instead of multiple swish sounds made from the blades, now there's only one or two sounds, depending on whether or not Alucard grunts during the swing. It seems like the port has some minor issues with audio mixing.

Captcha text is "disgorge". Kinda funny in context.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18784507)

Sony's Blu-ray drive is only twice as fast as the old PS2 drive. (It's a 2x Blu-Ray drive, giving it about 72Mb/s, while the old PS2 had a 4x DVD drive, giving it about 56Mb/s.)

The problem is that high-def games require much higher texture resolutions, so much more data has to be transfered. Overall, this means that PS3 load times are MUCH higher than their PS2 counterparts and MUCH higher than the Xbox 360.

To counter-act this, most games have to be installed to the hard drive to get anything approaching reasonable loading times. (Making the choice of Blu-ray basically worthless.)

So, the space on the drive is required to install the games so that the players can actually play them without spending all their time staring at [LOADING...].

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18784625)

You obviously don't own one. There's already a fair amount of downloadable content available. HD movie trailers, games and game demos. The latter are getting on toward 1G already, and sooner or later full blown HD games will be available direct to the box from the PS-store, in addition to the noddy crap they have now. That's not including what people are dumping onto the box, such as TV shows and movies. I've already gotthe full S3 Battlestar on it, along with a fair number of Doctor Who shows. A number of people are ripping DVDs for it do. Though I don't understand why, seeing as they're losing 5.1 sound thanks to the pathetic codec and format support and lack of tools to generate h.264 + 5.1.

Linux on the PS3 is junk. No access to RSX means you're running with next to no memory and very poor video drivers, so forget a nippy desktop or decent video playback.

As you say, a number of us have already put in a bigger drive. It's only a 2.5" SATA laptop drive and pretty simple to do (even the manual shows you how). I would imagine some suckers will be happy to have one preinstalled as some kind on penis extension or pissing contest.

What the need to do is fix the gaps in the software and deliver on the supposed awesome media center hype. There's no 1080p/24 output for blu-ray, very limited video codec supported. Cannot have audio set to output on both HDMI and optical, so you have to keep reconfiguring the shitty thing each time you want to change, even though STBs and DVD players have done it fine for years. Upscale DVDs as promised.

I could rant on and on, time to pass the baton!

FYI I had to install a 110G drive in my xbox. XBMC is wonderful, alas it cannot cope with HD material.

Re:Why? (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785133)

Though I don't understand why, seeing as they're losing 5.1 sound thanks to the pathetic codec and format support and lack of tools to generate h.264 + 5.1.

FWIW, mencoder will do h.264 + 5.1 just fine.

Linux on the PS3 is junk. No access to RSX means you're running with next to no memory and very poor video drivers, so forget a nippy desktop or decent video playback.

They'll get direct access to the RSX sorted in time, but for now we have to live with framebuffer access through the hypervisor. I don't mind though, because it's a fraction of the price of anything else you can buy with a Cell processor (eg IBM QS20 or Mercury Cell). I think the significant purpose of supporting Linux is to provide a low-cost Cell BE environment for interested parties to play with.

Re:Why? (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 6 years ago | (#18788623)

They'll get direct access to the RSX sorted in time

Who do you mean by "they"? Hackers? So then you have to play cat and mouse with Sony, just as you have to with the PSP?

Re:Why? (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 6 years ago | (#18790341)

No, by "they" I mean Sony.

From Wikipedia, "Because we have plans for having Linux on board the PS3, we also recognize Linux programming activities... Other than game studios tied to official developer licenses, we had like to see various individuals participate in content creation for the PS3."

Now, if they're serious about this they'll hear the cries from their Linux community customers (who, btw, likely also buy games for their PS3) for direct access to the GPU. The current framebuffer access is a dog, although it's just fine if you want to crunch numbers. If they do that, they're opening the PS3 up to be more of a "PC" machine, albeit with little memory. If they can get talented non-gamer programmers into it, we're potentially looking at the next Amiga here ( as in, a revolution in content and multi-processing power... hopefully without the horrible mismanagement ;-) ). I'm sure Sony knows this, given some of Ken Kataguri's quotes.

Please Sony, give the next revision upgradeable memory and a hypervisor that allows RSX access.

Is this really news? (2, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784467)

Sony are rumoured to be going to an 80Gb model which is hardly a great leap. Who knows why they have a new model but probably because they're getting the 80Gb drives at the same prices as they used to get the 60Gb models for so they're switching. Perhaps some other OEM is providing the drives. How is that bad for the consumer if you get an extra 20Gb for the same price?

Re:Is this really news? (1)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784681)

I doubt the PS3 with the larger HDD will be the same price as the 60GB one. Although maybe Sony will drop the price of the 60GB model to $550 or something, and price the proposed 80GB model at $600?

Hah. Right. I'm sure the 80GB model will come with a few other items and cost $700 or something outrageous like that.

Upgrade that HD (2, Informative)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784533)

You are all aware that you can drop any SATA HD into the system right? So making a new unit with nothing but a bigger HD would be counter productive. They'd have to add something like a sony memcard reader and maybe include 3 controllers to make it worth while.

Re:Upgrade that HD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18786417)

any sata is a bit off, any 2.5 off the shelf will fit and work, but a 3.5 you will need some moding or an adapter.

Price.. (3, Funny)

Mockylock (1087585) | more than 6 years ago | (#18784601)

It'll probably cost $300.

They're getting a little lame with the updates and upgrades lately, aren't they?

This just in: Sony is releasing an official PS3 Trademarked CHROME sticker available as an add-on. This attachment retails for $50 and SHOULD be available by mid-fall at select retail outlets.

Re:Price.. (1)

powerlord (28156) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785737)

They'd just be following in MS's footsteps (take a look at the expected price for the proprietary HD upgrade for the XBox360 vs. the user swappable one for the PS3).

Heck ... the PS3 even uses standard USB drives for external storage, just like the XBox 360 ... what? you mean the 360 uses some proprietary storage? Shocker. :/

Face it, Sony as a company may have done some things that have people angry, but the PS3, between its use of Bluetooth for headsets, keyboards and mice, USB for external storage, and user swap-able SATA HardDrive, is the most OPEN mainstream console we've seen. Heck, even the HDMI port is standard (go buy the $10 cable if you want).

Re:Price.. (1)

Mockylock (1087585) | more than 6 years ago | (#18785909)

I'd definitely expect a console to HOPEFULLY have more features than a competitor that released a year before it. It's not too tough to look at an existing console and say, "This is what they did, so we'll do this." especially when you're not at all concerned that it's going to sell, regardless of it's features.

Honestly.. let's face it. What Sony fan wouldn't buy a PS3 even if it didn't have any of the features you listed? They're going to buy it, even if it's a brick with a PS3 sticker on it.

Don't get me wrong.. the PS3 is a great system, and if it were a few hundred dollars cheaper, I'd probably buy one. I can't necessarily use it for a media center at the moment, either.

I know the flames are going to fly after this. But honestly... you know they're going to buy anything that Sony throws at them.

Re:Price.. (1)

powerlord (28156) | more than 6 years ago | (#18786615)

I know the flames are going to fly after this. But honestly... you know they're going to buy anything that Sony throws at them.


I'd like to think sans-flame discussion is possible. :)

If people were really that Gung-Ho over Sony (in general), then you would have seen a greater adaption rate of all those proprietary media formats that they tried to push.

People only really bought into them though, when they liked the product they were paired with.

Heck, most people I know with a PS3 (most of whom got it within the first month or two it was out) opted NOT to get a Sony bravia TV when they upgraded to an HD TV, instead getting a Samsung model that was comparably featured an about half the price. We're only talking in the 32" range (living space is an issue :) ), but the universal opinion has been that the PS3 excels at what its trying to do: Play Games, Play Music/Video, Play DVD/Blu-Ray.

Re:Price.. (1)

Mockylock (1087585) | more than 6 years ago | (#18787867)

I agree with you, I was just looking at the PS3 side of it.. rather than Just Sony products in general. I really don't think that Blu-Ray would even be a huge ordeal if Sony wasn't pushing it with the PS3. It's time for some type of HD media, and I guess it's got to start somewhere though.

I just can't see paying that amount when I can stream any HD movie, HDTV show, DivX or whatever media directly to the 360 for half the price and still have excellent gameplay.

I'll eventually get a PS3, I'm sure... but, not because it's a Playstation. Because of Gran Turismo! ;)

Re:Price.. (1)

(A)*(B)!0_- (888552) | more than 6 years ago | (#18786727)

"Heck ... the PS3 even uses standard USB drives for external storage, just like the XBox 360 ... what? you mean the 360 uses some proprietary storage? Shocker. :/"
Plugging a USB hard drive into the 360 works fine. Have you tried it?

Re:Price.. (1)

powerlord (28156) | more than 6 years ago | (#18787109)

No, I hadn't. From friends comments, I understood that you needed to purchase the proprietary memory cards to download games, saves, content, etc. onto.

Re:Price.. (1)

(A)*(B)!0_- (888552) | more than 6 years ago | (#18787751)

The 360 can use USB drives for external storage. You stated that the PS3 does this and implied that the 360 cannot. You spread false information.

Re:Price.. (1)

powerlord (28156) | more than 6 years ago | (#18787897)

Yes/No. I stated something to the best of knowledge and responded when someone pointed out an incorrect fact. There are lots of people who seem to spread false information on a regular basis, and yet they seem unable to admit they are wrong. Someone pointed that out to me already, and I merely said where I had gotten my information, I was NOT trying to imply they were wrong.

I'm glad to hear the 360 can use the extra storage, I was surprised when I had heard it couldn't, and I'm glad that information was wrong.

hmm (2, Informative)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#18787843)

Hey sony, how about instead of making a system with a larger hard drive as an option you try to find ways to cut down on the manufacturing costs so you can lower the price of the current 60 gig model? Who knows, mabye you will get more people like me who aren't buying the PS3 primarily because of the price...

It's not that I can't afford it, it's that I can't justify it.

Profit margin will probably exceed 5 percent (1)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 6 years ago | (#18788205)

Which means that Sony is turning a profit off of the units now? Good thing I can keep on waiting, as if they've turned a profit after losing money hand-over-fist on these things, I'm guessing that a price cut is foreseeable in the notsodistant future for the existing models.

Ohh I get it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18793605)

The reason no one is buying PS3 now, and there rows and rows of them at the store is because everyone out there is holding out for a bigger hard drive!

  Where do I sign up for Sony's PR department?
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