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Dell To Offer Win XP On Consumer PCs Again

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the that's-a-ringing-endorsement-right-there dept.

447

phalse phace writes "With so many consumers still asking for Windows XP to be loaded on Dell's consumer level PCs, the PC maker has finally decided to offer that as an option. 'Like most computer makers, Dell switched nearly entirely to Vista-based systems following Microsoft's mainstream launch of the operating system in January. However, the company said its customers have been asking for XP as part of its IdeaStorm project, which asks customers to help the company come up with product ideas. Starting immediately, Dell said, it is adding XP Home and Professional as options on four Inspiron laptop models and two Dimension desktops.' The Dell models with the Windows XP option are: Dell Inspiron 1405, 1705, 1505, and 1501; and Dell Dimension E520 and E521."

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Well Duh (4, Insightful)

zoomshorts (137587) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803565)

Who wants Vista?

Re:Well Duh (3, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803611)

Microsoft?

Re:Well Duh (4, Funny)

eneville (745111) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804083)

Microsoft?
yeah, obviously, ms want to keep it to themselves. lets look at the facts:
  1. way over priced
  2. released much later than everyone was told
  3. no one can afford the hardware to run it
so i'd say that MS are trying to keep it.

Re:Well Duh (5, Interesting)

jcgf (688310) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803665)

I certainly don't. I'm testing it at work here on a 1.7 celeron with 1.5gb ram and a radeon 9550. Can't do anything without the cpu meter hitting 100 for a couple of seconds. Videos that played fine in XP stutter now and I had to turn off UAC cause it was driving me mad.

Re:Well Duh (4, Interesting)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804155)

Same experience here. Pentium 4 2.26Ghz, 1GB RAM, NVidia 6600GT, and it chugs with just the Vista basic interface. The worst part is that it occasioanlly just goes off and starts thrashing the hard drive, and pretty much locks the system up. I think it's the indexing service doing that, but I've not confirmed that. I also run it on a Pentium M 2.0Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon X700 laptop system, and it feels like I'm working on an XT.
The only positive feature for Vista, so far, is the built in chess game. For the price, you can get a better one on XP.

Dell vs. Microsoft (5, Insightful)

TheMeuge (645043) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803821)

This raises an important question - who's more important to whom?

1. Is Windows essential to Dell's business model of building and selling PCs?
2. Is Dell essential to Microsoft's business model of establishing a monopoly and locking in customers?

In an ideal world, it's obvious that #2 would be more true than #1, given the huge percentage of the PC market that Dell occupies. However, customers still demand Windows, and while Microsoft has the power to raise the wholesale prices for Dell, and render the latter unable to compete in the low-margin world of hardware sales, Dell is still quite dependent on directives from Redmond.

This latest trend just serves to underline the inherent instability in this partnership. In this context, it is not surprising that Dell is looking into Linux, since proliferation of the latter will benefit Dell in that it will limit the extent to which Dell depends on Microsoft in the long run; in the short run it'll give Dell more bargaining power with regards to wholesale Windows price negotiations.

Re:Dell vs. Microsoft (5, Insightful)

CelticWhisper (601755) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803927)

I'm inclined to say that Dell is more important to Microsoft than Microsoft is to Dell.

Remember that PC hardware stands on its own and free operating systems exist to drive it. However, Windows does not stand on its own and requires hardware to run.

Add to that the fact that many, many people do not distinguish between the OS and the PC (or even the "computer" and the "hard drive" for that matter, but I digress) and they'll blame problems with --anything-- to do with their PC squarely on Dell, and you have a culture that strongly associates the OEM with everything computer-related.

When you have the company with the greater amount of mindshare also creating the components that are more flexible (versus the OS which, as previously mentioned, requires hardware) you have a situation in favor of the OEM telling the software company what for.

Simply put, it only takes a few commercials from Dell about "the power of open source" to get people doubting Microsoft.

YMMV, of course, and this is just my experience dealing with the public for 7 years working in a library. Thank Cthulhu that's over.

Re:Dell vs. Microsoft (5, Interesting)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803997)

Simply put, it only takes a few commercials from Dell about "the power of open source" to get people doubting Microsoft.

Wow, I never saw it that way. Of course Dell would need to grow a spine before ever doing that. That means saying. "Screw you Microsoft, I don't care paying a premium for your licenses.... Brand recognition will save us!" Not very likely to happen... Interesting none the less.

Re:Well Duh (3, Informative)

El Gigante de Justic (994299) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803863)

I've worked with Vista a bit on VMware for work and I think I would eventually want to upgrade to it. I just don't want to have to pay an arm and a leg for hardware to really use its full feature set, so I'm waiting at least until SP1 comes out because then the hardware I really want will be less expensive. If you're curious what I was using to run it in VMWare, I was using VMWare Workstation 5.5.3 on a computer with an Intel Core 2 CPU 6600 @ 2.4 Ghz and 2 GB of RAM. I gave 512 MB of RAM to the VM, and the image takes up approximately 12 GB of my hard drive. It runs fine, and I'd say it definitely boots faster than my WinXP VM images. Since the VM image was still an internal beta version I had to do some tweaking to get the sound to work, and I can't run Aero in VM Ware (no hardware graphics acceleration available for the VM) but overall I found a lot of the new features in the OS, such as the new search tools and new Start menu layout to be good improvements overall. Not enough to make me upgrade my current laptop, but nothing that would make me avoid Vista in the future either.

Re:Well Duh (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804359)

I love when people say they are waiting for SP1 or (enter x revision) of software like it has any bearing on the stability (especially in Window's case.) Let's say Microsoft releases Vista SE tomorrow. They hear an outcry of people that say they won't buy it until SP1. Microsoft comes back next Friday and says, SP1 available for download! When all they really did was change the default color of the menus. I try to at least identify a problem with the system and determine the point at which it's enough of a change to consider the item. Sure, history states that general SP1 fixes improve a lot of the stability and performance in Windows, but it's not always been the case. NT4 went though SP1 pretty quick. (I think it was something like 2 months.)

Re:Well Duh (2, Interesting)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803905)

I don't even have a machine that can run it. The best machine I have was bought 3 months ago. (Other two in the household are both from 2003 and work 100% fine!) It has XP Media Center and was on sale. It does have a sticker saying "Vista Capable" - removed by now- but the fine print on the packing box said pretty much "you won't be getting any of the fancy stuff that Vista does even if you install it on this machine". I should have taken a picture of that text, it was priceless.

So, I wouldn't dare to say "no one", but you have to probably spend close to 1500€ for a Vista machine that won't lag. My 799€ machine doesn't lag on XP... It was cheap, has the oompha I need, and will last me some years...

Re:Well Duh (5, Funny)

vivin (671928) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804063)

Isn't it not true that you do not want to not install Vista on your Dell computer? Cancel or Allow?

Re:Well Duh (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804075)

You are about to post on Slashdot.
[Cancel] [Allow]

Re:Well Duh (1)

bobcat7677 (561727) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804183)

I sure don't want Vista. Trouble is that I only get server hardware from Dell. My favorite laptops come from HP which last time I checked was still fully on the Vista bandwagon. Hopefully HP will wake up and smell the stink though and follow Dell's example.

So what does this mean, Vista is a failure? (4, Insightful)

benzapp (464105) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803573)

Long live Windows XP

Re:So what does this mean, Vista is a failure? (3, Interesting)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803947)

Hmm, Idea Storm says "immediently available". But I still can't buy XP on Dells home website..

Re:So what does this mean, Vista is a failure? (1)

Blue Stone (582566) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804077)

Well, I've looked around their uk site, and if you buy via small business, they give you the choice of either xp or vista.

Prophetic??? (-1, Redundant)

davidwr (791652) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803579)

Slashdot must think it's January 1, 2008, 'cause I got:

Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.

Wow (4, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803601)

this means the hating of Vista is stronger then the hating of previos OSs.

Good, Maybe MS will take a hint....

Re:Wow (5, Insightful)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803685)

This also means the hating of Vista is stronger then msft's influence over dell. You know that msft must hate this.

Re:Wow (4, Insightful)

Adambomb (118938) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804243)

tsk tsk,
dont forget! hate leads to suffering!

Re:Wow (4, Interesting)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803707)

I think you're wrong here: as hateful as XP was, it was a relief compared to such gems as Windows 98 or ME. Frankly, if Microsoft was smart, given the relative acceptance of the latest iterations of XP as a stable and useful OS (in Microsoft metrics of course), they would have kept pluging holes and making it better one patch at a time until it was finally good. But of course this doesn't make them big bucks, so instead they embarqued on this stupid Longhorn fantasy and this is the result: people are happy enough with XP (and justly wary of any new Microsoft product) that they don't want Vista.

Re:Wow (2, Interesting)

TheLazySci-FiAuthor (1089561) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803741)

this means the hating of Vista is stronger then the hating of previos OSs.

Good, Maybe MS will take a hint....


Soooo, you are saying MS should release yet another OS immediately? Ah, I see. That way everyone will hate the new one even more than they now hate Vista!

Brilliant!

Re:Wow (1)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804059)

Yes, they should release "Windows XP Classic". You know, Windows XP with a nice theme (based on silver, and having a non-green start button), including Service Pack 3!

Cost them nothing and people will line up for it ;-)

Not sure it is about hate... (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803769)

I think Dell is just trying to help MS get their sales numbers up to a par with what they are selling in China :0

Re:Wow (4, Interesting)

jomas1 (696853) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803801)

I think you are partly right. Vista is receiving much more hate than Microsoft and most PC manufacturers thought it would but I doubt Vista deserves or is hated as much as Windows ME was. The fact that Dell feels the need to sell XP again may indicate that Dell has lost faith in Microsoft's "Reality Distortion Field" more than anything else. Everyone talks about Steve Jobs' RDF while neglecting to mention that Redmond has convinced people that they always need to upgrade and have no choice but Microsoft for the last 12 or so years. People far from the fringes now know that both Apple, Linux and XP are viable options for many folks and that means Microsoft's free ride is ending.

Re:Wow (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803895)

No it still doesn't beat the hate for Windows ME.

Re:Wow (1)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803931)

Good, Maybe MS will take a hint....

Ha! I hope you're right but their track record taking hints is notoriously bad. I'll believe there's a chance they'll listen when Ballmer has a sudden desire to spend more time with his family.

Re:Wow (0, Redundant)

Tumbleweed (3706) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803933)

this means the hating of Vista is stronger then the hating of previos OSs.

Yes, Microsoft's eternal struggle to make each succeeding operating system 'suck just a little bit less' than the previous has now come to an end. A new era for all mankind!

Isn't that Xubuntu download done yet?!

Good, Maybe MS will take a hint....

It's not MS that needs to take a hint - it's the people who buy MS products that need to take a hint.

Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (5, Insightful)

Orig_Club_Soda (983823) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803621)

...whether we buy VIsta or XP?

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (2, Insightful)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803655)

MS has a massive dev cost to recoup for Vista. If nobody buys Vista then that's a failure to make back the money they spent.

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803703)

MS has a massive dev cost to recoup for Vista. If nobody buys Vista then that's a failure to make back the money they spent.

yes, and no. The dev cost is spread out across all future versions of Windows as well. It's not like they're going to throw vista away and start over on a different version (no matter how much I think they should do so) :)

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (5, Insightful)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803777)

True, as a company, giving them $100 is giving them $100 (or $20, or whatever, I don't know exactly how much they get per copy from Dell).

However, if they spend a billion dollars developing Windows Vista, and then they only sell $800M worth of Vista-related crap, because everyone else is still buying XP (because Vista sucks that badly), then they've effectively 'lost' $200M on Vista, because it didn't generate as much in profit as it took to develop. It's not lost in the same sense of the money you blew on blackjack in Vegas is 'lost,' but it shows that Vista was a very, very bad investment, and it'll probably make them not meet their projections to their investors.

It doesn't really hurt them as much as make them look like a bunch of idiots.

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (2, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803865)

It doesn't really hurt them as much as make them look like a bunch of idiots.

Actually, that hurts them much more in the long term than the money hit hurts them now.

Microsoft cannot compete on features, so it has to compete on marketing. That will be much-impaired if they look like the bunch of incompetent dumbfucks they are.

This incident is a huge success for everyone but Microsoft on that basis alone. This latest straw, with Dell once again offering Windows XP because customers overwhelmingly prefer it to Vista, probably isn't the camel's-back-breaker, but it does make Microsoft look pretty damned bad. When you can't even manufacture buzz for your product, you know you're in trouble.

Of course, we all know that Windows NT 5.x was a gigantic improvement for the home user over Windows 98, and Vista isn't a huge improvement over XP in any way but eye candy. Oh, and NX support, that's great. Everything else is either lame, or a band-aid to help cover Vista's amazing slowness (the various acceleration technologies that make use of flash memory etc.)

Yes and no (2, Interesting)

davidwr (791652) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803711)

Suppose MS spent $500,000,000 developing Vista.
If they don't recoup it, heads may roll inside Microsoft.

But the difference between
$600,000,000 in Vista licenses plus $0 in new XP licenses
vs
$400,000,000 in Vista licenses plus $200,000,000 in new XP licenses
is a wash, assuming other things like support costs, long-term customer retention, etc. are all about the same.

The numbers above are 100% made up from thin-air concentrate.

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (2, Insightful)

truthsearch (249536) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803767)

While true at face value, the purchases today are probably mostly from people who would buy the PC with Vista or XP. Either way they're buying a Windows license, so assuming the OEM price is the same, it financially makes no difference to Microsoft.

If anything people were not buying a PC because it would only come with Vista. Which means no sale at all for Microsoft. So Microsoft overall makes more money by at least selling another copy of XP.

Of course there are secondary costs, like lower sales figures for their "flagship product", which could keep their stock price stagnant. But that's another story.

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18804163)

Either way they're buying a Windows license, so assuming the OEM price is the same, it financially makes no difference to Microsoft.

Not entirely true. $100 spent toward XP license occurs without the expense of Vista development. $100 spent toward a Vista license requires the investment toward Vista development. The first could occur without Vista but the second option certainly can't. Yes, Microsoft is getting $100 per license purchase but if I were an investor in Microsoft, I'd have preferred them to make $100 without having to spend $$$ to develop Vista.

Jim

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (1)

Dan Ost (415913) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804209)

One thing that you've ignored is that if Vista uptake is slow, then that increases the window of opportunity for other platforms to convert windows users.

If someone is looking to upgrade, they are far more likely to investigate their options if it looks like other people are seriously considering the options, too. Even if they don't choose an alternative platform, they are now more informed about their choices. Since one of MS's biggest strengths is people who don't know or don't care about the OS that comes on their new machine, this can only be bad for MS.

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803771)

But if they make the money selling XP does it really matter? As long as you are buying something, they are making money. And since the development costs for XP are probably reclaimed by now, the sales from XP can go towards paying for the development costs of Vista. However, XP costs less than Vista, so they're making less, but they're still making money.

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (2, Insightful)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803963)

On the large scale, yeah, it doesn't matter if people buy XP or Vista right? The same number of dollars still float into Microsoft.

But look at it this way: Vista will have been a total flop if this occurs, and the books at Redmond will be looking VERY VERY red for this project. Considering Windows is one of MS's supposed guaranteed cash cows, this is going to be absolute hell on investor confidence, and stock is going to tumble. *That* then becomes the real financial loss for MS.

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (1)

Orig_Club_Soda (983823) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804141)

What does matter if the sales come from XP or Vista? They still get money.

Investor Confidence (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803697)

Traditionally each new Microsoft OS has had a certain percentane of gauranteed sales due to computer makers switching. Having fewer copies of Vista sell means Investors could get skittish about the long term and not value the company as highly.

Re:Investor Confidence (1)

Orig_Club_Soda (983823) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804255)

Thats a good point. But how significant is it? If we are talking about new computer sales and not OS upgrades, will using XP decrease new computer sales?

Re:Investor Confidence (1)

aaronl (43811) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804351)

Putting that into a larger perspective makes it much worse. It would mean that two out of MS' last three operating systems were flops. Considering that the remaining one was a minor update to an existing product, it doesn't look that great.

We'll have to see what happens with Office 2007. If that product flops as well, then investors are likely going to start selling off their stock, and/or demanding a reorg and firings.

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (1)

Ayal.Rosenthal (1070472) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803715)

It likely hurts Microsoft a little bit. XP costs approximately $99 for the home edition whereas Vista costs $199. If XP user don't upgrade to Vista then its lost revenue, but if they do then its like deferring revenue. If its an even split between the two types of buyers then no harm done except for poor publicity.

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (1)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803737)

Does it hurt Microsoft financially... whether we buy VIsta or XP?

In the short term, they don't care where the money comes from. In the long term, buying XP gives them more potential for incremental Windows upgrade sales, but at the same time is one less user that is subjected to their all new lock-ins and leverages into new markets. If you don't buy Vista, how can they take over the portable document space from Adobe? Strategically, they'd probably prefer everyone switch to Vista as soon as possible so they can start leveraging control into the new markets it is illegally tied to.

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (1)

Orig_Club_Soda (983823) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804371)

I dont disagree with your comment. I only question how relevent it is to new computer sales.

Actually it helps them (1)

wbean (222522) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804191)

Dell selling XP instead of Vista benefits MS in the long run. They sell an OEM operating system today, and they have one more customer to upgrade to Vista tomorrow (or whenever it is they drop support or introduce some must-have feature in Vista only.)

Re:Does it hurt Microsoft financially... (1)

daybot (911557) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804347)

...whether we buy VIsta or XP?

Well, not directly when you're talking about new machines. But the markets may lose confidence in Microsoft if we don't start seeing returns on their massive six-year [wikipedia.org] project to update their core product.

The fact that customers are pleading with PC suppliers to provide an XP option also hints at the lack of Vista upgrade sales for existing PCs.

How much would you pay for XP? (1)

davidwr (791652) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803645)

How much of a premium would you pay/discount would you demand for XP Pro compared to Vista Business preloaded?
Same question, but your favorite OSS OS/distro compared to Vista Business preloaded?
Same question, but a bare drive compared to Vista Business preloaded?

How many of you would actually pay a premium to not have to take the time to wipe the Micrud$oft off your box?

Re:How much would you pay for XP? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803745)

How many of you would actually pay a premium to not have to take the time to wipe the Micrud$oft off your box?

dd if=/dev/zero count=1 of=/dev/sda

Done! I don't think I'd pay someone to zero out my MBR.

Re:How much would you pay for XP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18804285)

"How many of you would actually pay a premium to not have to take the time to wipe the Micrud$oft off your box?"

I pay it, and I pay it to Apple.

Comments/Polls (5, Funny)

Mockylock (1087585) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803647)

With the last Linux input to Dell and now XP being begged for.. Why doesn't dell have an option on their PC customization site that states,

"Choose an OPERATING SYSTEM:
1. Vista 32 or 64 Home
2. Vista Ultimate
3. Anything But Vista."

Re:Comments/Polls (1)

hey (83763) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803965)

Why stop there:

"Choose an OPERATING SYSTEM:
1. Vista 32 or 64 Home
2. Vista Ultimate
3. Windows XP
4. Windows 2000
5. Windows NT
6. Fedora
7. Ubuntu
8. FreeDOS
9. FreeBSD
10. BeOS" ...

That would be verrrrry niiice.

Re:Comments/Polls (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18804111)

Why stop there:

"Choose an OPERATING SYSTEM:
1. Vista 32 or 64 Home
2. Vista Ultimate
3. Windows XP
4. Windows 2000
5. Windows NT
6. Fedora
7. Ubuntu
8. FreeDOS
9. FreeBSD
10. BeOS"
11. Mac OS X

That would be even better.

Re:Comments/Polls (4, Funny)

codepunk (167897) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804377)

Why stop there:

"Choose an OPERATING SYSTEM:
1. Vista 32 or 64 Home
2. Vista Ultimate
3. Windows XP
4. Windows 2000
5. Windows NT
6. Fedora
7. Ubuntu
8. FreeDOS
9. FreeBSD
10. BeOS"
11. Mac OS X
12. I am feeling lucky!

Re:Comments/Polls (1)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804315)

Anything but Vista, huh?
Finally, I've found a way to dump our Windows ME licenses!

Whee! (2, Funny)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803683)

Now I can order Crap with oldCrap installed on it! Not that crappy NewCrap! I hate NewCrap!

Re:Whee! (1)

The Media Mechanic (1084283) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803977)

Ha ha ha. Personally I miss Crap 1.0. It's not as bloated as this new, stinking, Crap 2.0.

Dell Microsoft? (2, Insightful)

15973 (861573) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803699)

Let's hope Microsoft does the same thing next year when people are still clamoring for XP...

Re:Dell Microsoft? (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803765)

It will be interesting to see what happens honestly. Technically the business versions of Vista include a downgrade license (IE you can legally install XP by buying Vista) It would be interesting to see if Dell goes this route. If their XP sales are significantly strong, you might actually see them attempt to do this.

It's not like people resisting change is new. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18803709)

Many people dislike change since they don't like adjusting to new things, even if what they're switching to is many times better.

I haven't tried Vista, but I'm willing to bet that most of these customers want XP since they're used to using it, not because they think Vista is worse.

Welcome News! (1)

linRicky (961271) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803725)

I'd definitely say that it's welcome news for a lot of people... Vista, as I see it right now, is nothing more than a Beta version, and forcing it down consumers' throats seemed totally insane to me, after having gone through a lot of issues with drivers/compatibility.

PROFIT!!! (2)

davidwr (791652) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803743)

1. Sell PCs
2. Offer something other than Microsoft's flagship product preloaded.
3. ???
4. PROFIT!!!

Oh wait, that actually works.

Vista lives up to it's name (5, Funny)

Bobfrankly1 (1043848) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803747)

vista NOUN: A distant view or prospect, especially one seen through an opening, as between rows of buildings or trees.
Well finally, Microsoft creates an OS that lives up to it's name. People like to see Vista as far away from themselves as possible.
-
You are moderating this comment -1 "Retarded", Allow or Deny?

"Vista Ready" (2, Interesting)

Apocalypse111 (597674) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803805)

With new computers and top-end hardware running Vista at a crawl, I can't help but think that the 'Vista Ready!' sticker on many new machines just means it would make a really bitchin' XP box!

Bravo Dell, bravo. Now if you could make just one more leap and offer Linux, we'd be all set.

Re:"Vista Ready" (1)

conradov (1026760) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804217)

Hahaha. Absolutely right! And imagine Linux inside!

On the serious hand, there are lots of signs that Dell is going to offer Linux 'for real'.

Recent news about Michael Dell using Ubuntu [slashdot.org] and comments from Mark Shuttleworth - that I cannot remember where I saw - are some hints.

the real reason (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803811)

1. introduce inferior OS called Vista 2. wait for Vista to lure people from Mac/Linux 3. people then switch to XP out of hatred for Vista 4. Profit

Dumb People (2, Insightful)

astrosmash (3561) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803829)

It's perfectly fine to not want to be an early Vista adopter. But, regardless of one's opinion of Vista's features or initial quality, spending money on old WinXP at this point is like throwing your money away.

Vista is without a doubt the future of the Windows platform; if you don't want to partake just yet, hold off buying a new machine altogether. Demanding a new machine with WinXP is just irrational.

Re:Dumb People (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18803877)

Get out.

Re:Dumb People (4, Insightful)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803929)

Now, unlike this post [slashdot.org] , the post of the parent is actually a troll. Haven't you heard an expression: customer is always right?

It does not matter whether XP is older than Vista. There are plenty of products on the market that are newer and at the same time much worse than the products that preceeded them and the customer is correct to try and get an older better product than to buy into the 'newer must be better' crap.

XP works for many people, and apparently it works for so many people that Dell had to change its way, this does not imply that people are dumb for choosing an older OS, it implies that XP is a superiour product.

Re:Dumb People (2, Insightful)

astrosmash (3561) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804045)

Look, I'm no Microsoft shill. I gave up on the platform two years ago.

What I'm suggesting is that spending money for a license to use obsolete software is a bad move. Even if there are growing pains with Vista, it's incredibly naive to think those issues won't be sorted out within a few months. On the other hand, Windows XP is going to be looking very obsolete and dated within the year.

Re:Dumb People (4, Insightful)

jhfry (829244) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804257)

Obsolete and dated to whom... software is ONLY obsolete when it can no longer support the mission... and it's only dated when the user craves something new.

I haven't met anyone who has even remotely suggested that Vista was something to crave... especially in the business realm.

Sure if your a gamer, and can foresee that all the new games will be DX10... Vista is a better bet. If your a business and have a hundred XP machines, putting your new secretary on a Vista box is just a pain to manage . And updating the entire network is out cuz the hardware won't support it.

Right now... Vista is a LOSING proposition for businesses... and not really that appealing for general purpose users. The only market I can say would be stupid for not going with Vista is the gamer market, and only for the reasons you hinted at... eventually it may be needed.

Re:Dumb People (1)

astrosmash (3561) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804401)

Do the headlines "Dell to Offer Win XP On Consumer PCs again", and "Dell brings back XP on home systems" suggest to you that this is a move for business customers?

Re:Dumb People (4, Interesting)

jhfry (829244) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803979)

Your the dumb one.

Dell sells to a metric assload of businesses. Most businesses are not migrating to Vista any time soon.

Additionally, many users REQUIRE software that does not operate properly in Vista... thus they REQUIRE windows XP instead of Vista to have a computer of any value.

Sure they could choose not to buy new computers... but for a company on a strict 3-4 year lease rotation on their dell machines, or a business that is adding employees, or any number of other situations where waiting is not an option, Windows XP is a must in order to maintain uniformity.

For example, I have managed networks with several hundred machines broken in 3 groups... each group was on a 36 month lease, so over the course of 3 years, every machine would be replaced with a new machine. A software upgrade would never be done until 100% of our hardware was capable of running the new software... even if that meant waiting to rotate the oldest hardware out. With the new hardware demands of Vista, I have a feeling it will be at least 2 years before organizations that operate the way ours did has the hardware in place to perform a complete migration.

Re:Dumb People (1)

Clever7Devil (985356) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804411)

Your the dumb one.
Where can the rest of us get our very own "the dumb one"?

On-Topic: I agree that this is a good move on Dell's part. Many businesses are resisting the change to Vista. Many people own their own laptops that double as work computers. Having your computer compatible with your company's standard solves headaches. I think Dell may just have earned my business over HP. I'm about to buy a new notebook, and I'm glad to see that I can get myself an OS that is less flawed.

None of these things are going to stop me from Dual-Booting Linux for everything outside of work.

Re:Dumb People (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804185)

No prob, we'll just tell all the companies we support not to hire anyone for a few years...

There are more reasons people buy PCs than just for home. Vista's caused us no end of grief on the small-med business front, and we still have enough problems with day to day use let alone deal with teething issues.

Plus we do not have the option of not buying a new system. Companies grow, companies hire new people, new people need PCs, those new PCs are coming from Dell and we're finding a way to put XP on them, damnit, because it (usually) just works.

Re:Dumb People (1)

astrosmash (3561) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804311)

Do the headlines "Dell to Offer Win XP On Consumer PCs again", and "Dell brings back XP on home systems" suggest to you that this is a move for business customers?

Of course businesses won't immediately migrate to XP, but don't most businesses handle their software licensing manually, rather than depend on Dell to licenese, install, and configure the OS for them?

Re:Dumb People (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804211)

But, regardless of one's opinion of Vista's features or initial quality, spending money on old WinXP at this point is like throwing your money away. [...] Demanding a new machine with WinXP is just irrational.

You know, you're absolutely right.

But then, demanding a new machine with Vista is also irrational.

Demand Linux!

Vista in your future (1)

baomike (143457) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804221)

>

I sincerely hope so. I just can't think of anything I can do to drain the
MSFT cash hoard at a faster rate. But I can dream.

Re:Dumb People (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18804259)

"It's perfectly fine to not want to be an early WinME adopter. But, regardless of one's opinion of WinME's features or initial quality, spending money on old Win98 at this point is like throwing your money away.

WinME is without a doubt the future of the Windows platform; if you don't want to partake just yet, hold off buying a new machine altogether. Demanding a new machine with Win98 is just irrational."

There, now do you see the problem? Fortunately not every new Windows is automatically the "future" of the Windows platform. Windows 98 was run by users for many more years until XP fully took over - while WinME was largely considered a bomb even though MS did their best to force it on OEMs during 2000-01.

Welcome to Vista, the new WinME.

(and I left out Win2k, though it was released before WinME and was far superior to both Win98 and WinME, because it was considered a "business" OS at first)

Does this remind anyone else of Windows Me? (2, Interesting)

Prien715 (251944) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803845)

I recall something similar happened with Windows Me where many vendors actually offered machines with Win98SE instead. Is Vista shaping up to be the next Windows Me?

Re:Does this remind anyone else of Windows Me? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18803899)

What is this windows ME you speak of?

Sincerely,

Windows ME project manager.

Re:Does this remind anyone else of Windows Me? (3, Funny)

laffer1 (701823) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803915)

No, Windows ME had no cancel/allow boxes. Its clearly different.

This could be a nice start (2, Insightful)

phulegart (997083) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803855)

Indeed, as was posted already, it would be nice if Dell just offered the option of several Operating Systems for every computer purchased. Sure, it would drive Microsoft crazy as they want everyone to switch over to their new OS, and thus dump their old computers for ones that will run Vista, but if a company like Dell has the ability to provide what it's customers demand, why shouldn't they?

From what I've seen from Vista (specifically an install of Vista on a Sony Viao that refused to run the DVD authoring software because the Sony's video wasn't up to snuff), I am not impressed by it. Furthermore, when has Microsoft released an OS that did not need a major overhaul (other than Win2k) soon after it's release?

There is far too much media hype over Vista, this early in it's release. I can't wait until the equivalent of an SP2 to come out for Vista, so I can chuckle like a maniac. I just wish Dell would expand their offer to all their products.

Dell Has Been Offering WinXP (1)

Snives (207067) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803871)

As recent as two weeks ago we were able to order Windows XP on Dell machines. A client of mine purchased it right from the web site.

Re:Dell Has Been Offering WinXP (2, Informative)

varmittang (849469) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803969)

Businesses still has the ability to purchase XP on basically all machines available. We are talking about consumer machines here, the home and home office area. Not the small business or large business area where your client probably purchased from.

Ubuntu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18803937)

How about Ubuntu pre-installed PCs? Afterall Dell offers already the n-Series without any OS pre-installed which has become a huge success.

Does that mean I can finally get (2, Funny)

IchBinEinPenguin (589252) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804005)

Windows ME again?

It has become clear (5, Insightful)

michaelmalak (91262) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804015)

It's become clear that IdeaStorm isn't about soliciting ideas from users -- it's about using the web to publicly humiliate Microsoft into letting Dell sell to its customers what Dell already knows they want. It should be called PassiveAggressiveStorm.

Re:It has become clear (3, Funny)

IthnkImParanoid (410494) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804279)

They'd be in a lot of legal trouble if they called it PassiveAggressiveStorm, since my girlfriend has already patented the idea, trademarked the name, and holds the copyright on a number of creative implementations.

I kid, I kid.

Vista Compatibility (1)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804025)

Well, I'm using Vista, and I have to say, there are various things about it I don't like.

F'rinstance, I just shelled out for a pair of 3D shutter glasses. Now, my graphics card has no drivers for it yet, and I don't blame MS for that, because it's NVidias fault. But it looks like the fancy Aero interface will prevent them from working in a windowed application, which may rule out their use for things like CAD and molecular modelling, which I had an interest in.

My joystick drivers are utterly fubar.

Getting a microphone to work for VOIP games has been a nightmare.

Mind, some of these things will change. The driver model in Vista has changed dramatically, and top that with a graphics card with a brand new driver architecture of its own, and you're bound to have some problems.

So a lot of the problems are teething trouble. But there are still things that will by the looks of it continue to irk and annoy and restrict me. Here's hoping that the productivity applications I want to use get ported to Linux.

I nearly bought XP, for the record, having been on Win2k until it prevented me from running an application. But I thought, why buy an OS that's going out, when there's a new one coming in.....

anecdotal evidence... (2, Informative)

evangellydonut (203778) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804037)

Just bought a dell laptop yesterday actually. with all the discount specials floating around, some models listed in this article doesn't have the option of XP... Looking at the 1505 model, i was faced with the choice of getting Vista Home and buy a XP Pro OEM license elsewhere, or spend an extra hundred via a different deal to include XP Pro. Former requires much more time from me to d/l and install drivers later... Eventually, the 6400 model came through, which had identical specs as the 1505 and comparable discounts, XP Pro came pre-installed :-D took probably 3 hours of looking around though, but if I had to do all the d/l etc, it'll take 6 hours instead -_-'

In comparison, Lenovo shopping was much more straight-forward, albeit around $200 more expensive...

SAME PRICE??? (1)

Y-Studios (988661) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804049)

What about the price? Is the overall cost going to be cheaper?

Is it just me, or... (2, Interesting)

Dracos (107777) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804051)

Is Dell becoming brave in the face of MS? First they seem to get serious about putting Linux on non-server systems, and now they're bending to customer demand, putting XP back on some systems.

The rest of the OEM's surely see what a disappointment Vista is, both technically and in terms of sales. If the rest of them joined Dell in standing up to the Redmond behemoth, the result would probably benefit everyone. Except MS. A lower MS tax, and ways to avoid it altogether.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next time Dell renegotiates their OEM contract, the terms are more balanced.

Just let them buy XP (1)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804055)

Keep giving out the coupons for Vista upgrades. If MSFT ever manages to get the bugs out of Vista they'll use their coupon. Or they'll buy a Mac. But at least if they have a coupon they'll be tempted to try it first.

Vista reminds me of the dork in college who threw a big party and no one showed up.

I got a refund for Vista from Dell US (5, Interesting)

Jck_Strw (35674) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804277)

I bought a new machine about 3-4 weeks ago. Vista was the only option. I asked Sales before I bought it if I could get XP. No dice.

So when the machine finally arrived, I declined the licensing terms of Vista (I have my own licensed copy of XP) and I emailed Dell for a refund. Two emails later I got $27. This is about half of what the guy in Germany got from Dell Germany (plus he got $8 USD for Works, which Dell US didn't bother to comment on when I asked for that refund).

Just my $27 worth.

http://www.headsallempty.org/wordpress [headsallempty.org]

You're forgetting Windows's place in consumerism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18804369)

The success of Vista is a success for most businesses involved in selling PC Windows-compatible hardware and software. It allows them to sell new products and services, even if these are pretty much the same as those they sold for use with Windows XP. In turn, this is good for the financial economy (if not for the environment).

Bring back (1)

postmortem (906676) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804389)

Windows 2000!

Everything just flies on it... ...and any XP driver will work there.

In other words, Microsoft OS from 1999 is still actual.

Windows Classic (1)

suprzer0 (1047542) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804409)

It's coke cola all over again.

1) Change your product so everyone hates it (Vista)
2) Bring back the 'classic' version (XP) that everyone is used to
3) ???????
4) Profit!
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