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Sony Rejects PS3 Price Cuts

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the i-cast-thee-out dept.

PlayStation (Games) 187

Despite hopeful comments by analysts, Sony has gone on the record (again) saying that it has no plans to cut the PS3's pricetag any time soon. Next Generation reports: "'PS3 prices and shipment plans for the future should be determined by market trends and competition. Sony currently doesn't have any specific plan to cut the PlayStation 3's price.' Analysts believe a price cut is inevitable, as the company struggles to catch Microsoft's early lead with Xbox 360, and the $250 Wii continues to sell as many as can be produced. However, Sony's plan has generally been to hold tight and hope that demand for Blu-ray drives will increase, by the end of this year." Relatedly, the company has outlined releases for the second quarter of this year on the PS2, PS3, and PSP systems.

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Counter-Headline: (5, Funny)

Lachryma (949694) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803807)

Consumers reject Sony.

Its my toy (5, Insightful)

jriding (1076733) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803961)

They keep playing the old its my toy and if you don't want to play by my rules you can't play with it... But they don't seem to notice that not many people are willing to play with their toy based on their rules. This includes both game makers as well as customers. Over all I keep hoping that they will see the light and the ps3 will take off with both good games and good price... but untill then I will just keep what I have.

Re:Its my toy (2, Interesting)

cHALiTO (101461) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804181)

I think the problem is that most people who would buy a ps3, are waiting for a price drop, which forces Sony to *continually* go out and say that there will be none. Otherwise I don't know why they keep saying this over and over, once would be enough.

Which would prove that the current price is way too much (Most people always thought that, I know, but still some fanboys kept saying things like "if you want the best you have to pay the price" and that sort of shit).

Disclaimer: You can call me a fanboy myself if you like. I got my Nintendo Wii and I'm having loads of fun with it :)

Re:Counter-Headline: (0, Troll)

Stupidfat (1009173) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804091)

Sony rejects God.

Re:Counter-Headline: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18805171)

Wise move.

Re:Counter-Headline: (2, Funny)

Tragek (772040) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805559)

God rejects Sony.

Why have karma if you don't blow it sometimes.

Re:Counter-Headline: (1)

Sj0 (472011) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806539)

If you take a CS degree in Alberta, then working in a virtual world removed from the real world is probably your best idea. :P

MOD PARENT DOWN -1 FLAMEBAIT (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18804095)

FTW

Re:Counter-Headline: (1)

LoudMusic (199347) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804229)

Consumers reject Sony.
Yes, but it's not because of the price of the PS3. I wouldn't buy it if it were $250. There's still aren't any games I want to play on it!

Re:Counter-Headline: (3, Interesting)

DownWithTheMan (797237) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804633)

I agree with this 100%!

I was/am a big Sony fan-boy because of the library of games the Playstation has always sported... I'm an RPG addict, and the Playstation enabled my addiction to no end. But after the wonderful Sony root-kit adventure and the current $600 price tag, I don't think I'll be buying a PS3 any time soon. Let's not forget to mention that Next-Gen game prices have all gone up another $10. All in all they basically priced me out of the market and I am refusing to save up for one.

The only Next-Gen system I own right now is the Nintendo Wii. Why? The controls are incredibly innovative (much like the DS, and I thoroughly enjoyed my experience with it). The price tag was ONLY $250 and current games are still set at the $44.99-49.99 price... Oh yeah, and let's not forget Zelda and the Twilight Princess... All in all this spells one happy Wii gamer who will be waiting until those PS3 systems drop in price, and up-coming RPG releases become Best Seller titles and the prices drop to $19.99 - 29.99

Re:Counter-Headline: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18805725)

The PS3 is doing even worse in Japan than it is in the US. So it seems to me that all of the JRPG makers have to be seriously considering switching over their games in development to the Wii (even if it means scaling back their graphical ambitions). It's looking like no amount of exclusives will get people to buy the PS3 at its current price and the developers are starting to realize this too.

when you know you're wrong... (4, Insightful)

butterflysrage (1066514) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803809)

dig in your heals and hope no one catches on to that fact...

Re:when you know you're wrong... (4, Funny)

rhombic (140326) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804117)

George, is that you?

Re:when you know you're wrong... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18805343)

No, it's Alberto.

Wow, that's a big link. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18803813)

I wish all links spanned entire summaries.

Re:Wow, that's a big link. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18803897)

It seems from the html code that it was intentional.

It's the right move (5, Insightful)

cxreg (44671) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803891)

cutting the price at this point wouldn't help game sales enough to offset the extra loss they'd be taking on each unit, because the library is still pretty sparse. might as well suck it up and sell whatever units are selling. when the really good games start coming out later this summer and fall, sales will pick up and I wouldn't be surprised to see a november cut of about $100

Re:It's the right move (4, Insightful)

powerlord (28156) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804299)

Not to mention even if they WERE going to have a price cut, denying it is "standard practice".

Take a look at Nintendo (who everyone seems enamored with at the moment), and remember what happened when they had the last round of price cuts on their handheld ... and denied any price cuts were about to happen when asked about the week before?

Look. Suck it up. Price cuts WILL happen at some point. If you want to wait for whenever that will be, then wait. If you don't, then don't. I agree that once the games start rolling this Summer and Fall things will start looking up, and I also wouldn't be surprised by a price drop before the holidays.

Re:It's the right move (1)

octal666 (668007) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804503)

"when the really good games start coming out later this summer and fall"

please, anyone can make a list of those ps3-seller games? I mean, I am sure that next year we will see some action, maybe a new god of war or a final fantasy, but this year? what has been announced this year that will make the masses run to buy a ps3?

my point is, i think sony is going to suck it up for at least a year, and i fear they start to rush developers to take out games not as good as they could have been, and that's bad news for everyone of us, since MS will rush their versions too, or rush games to compete with them.

Re:It's the right move (5, Informative)

cxreg (44671) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804751)

please, anyone can make a list of those ps3-seller games?

Exclusive material that people are very excited for, most if not all of which is expected this year:

Motorstorm (already out)
Metal Gear Solid 4
Killzone
Heavenly Sword
FF13 (despite recent headlines, 13 and 13vs are still PS3 exclusive for now)
Lair
Afrika
LittleBigPlanet
Home

And others coming down the line, like the next Gran Turismo and Tekken games

And there's games such as GTA4, Assassin's Creed, Katamari 3. People talk about a lack of exclusivity as if it's no longer available on the first platform. That's just stupid. The fact that a game is going to be available elsewhere doesn't mean it's not going to sell tremendously well on the PS3, and many people will buy one just to play their favorite franchise because it's what they're familiar with. Not to mention that it IS a better machine, and there's a good chance that multiplatform games will look nicer on the PS3. This has happened already with Oblivion.

Re:It's the right move (PS3 new games) (2, Insightful)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805623)

Motorstorm (already out)
Metal Gear Solid 4
Killzone
Heavenly Sword
FF13 (despite recent headlines, 13 and 13vs are still PS3 exclusive for now)
Lair
Afrika
LittleBigPlanet
Home


Other than Heavenly Sword and FF13 (which will be ported, they announced it), I don't sense any anticipation to speak of for the rest of that list.

Going to be a cold winter at Sony HQ.

Re:It's the right move (PS3 new games) (1)

cxreg (44671) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805709)

Other than Heavenly Sword and FF13 (which will be ported, they announced it), I don't sense any anticipation to speak of for the rest of that list.

Are you shitting me? No anticipation for MGS4? That's probably the biggest system seller I mentioned.

And although Nintendo and Microsoft feigned "who needs it, what we have is good enough" when Home was announced, between the lines was quite a bit of penis envy and the press was drooling all over Sony's new baby.

LittleBigPlanet is a coup. That by any measure should have been a Wii game, but PS3 stole it. The anticipation there is enormous.

Re:It's the right move (PS3 new games) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18805981)

And although Nintendo and Microsoft feigned "who needs it, what we have is good enough" when Home was announced, between the lines was quite a bit of penis envy

No, there wasn't. Trust me on that one.

Re:It's the right move (PS3 new games) (1)

cxreg (44671) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806121)

Why should I trust you? I can read.

"I think they've definitely taken some concepts that we originated like achievements, but I think they're pushing in a different direction and we've sort of fundamentally got two different approaches going on here. I think theres is very much a vision that people see it and it looks cool but it's fundamentally separate from the games - or at least what they've shown so far," Satchell continued. "It's a cool world but it's like a little game by itself. Our approach is the other way around; it's that games are the center and that's the star of the show, that's what people buy the console for."

Not exactly a condemnation. Statements like "it looks cool" and "pushing in a different direction" imply that they're admitting that it's a good idea. Everything else in there is spin.

"This is an example of Sony's 'Mii-too' approach," said a Nintendo spokesperson to CVG. "But as Mr. Miyamoto states, Nintendo years ago considered and rejected the type of approach Sony is now taking."

Oh really? "Years ago" huh? On what exactly, the Gamecube with it's 25 users? The DS with it's SNES level graphics? Even the Wii would be a stretch to pull it off, although they probably could have if they'd chosen to, but they did not. Why exactly did Nintendo reject an immersive world for a bare-bones cartoony poor man's version with little actual value to the player?

I'd expect a lot more harsh criticism if they honestly weren't jealous. You never come right out and say "damn, I wish we had what they have", but that's about as close as it gets.

Re:It's the right move (PS3 new games) (1)

Logiksan (947439) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806287)

Well, you almost had me on that one. Then this little nugget creeped up...

Oh really? "Years ago" huh? On what exactly, the Gamecube with it's 25 users? The DS with it's SNES level graphics?
Now you're resorting to BS, so I have to take the rest of your comments with that grain of salt.

Re:It's the right move (PS3 new games) (1)

cxreg (44671) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806303)

Take as much salt as you like, I'm not making shit up. But it's a valid question. How exactly have they could have done it years ago? Which system did they have that was powerful enough, popular enough, and networked in order to take advantage of it? Only Wii, and that system is brand new.

Re:It's the right move (PS3 new games) (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806125)

Sorry, that was my reaction. I'm not saying that Home or LittleBigPlanet might not be ok, but I really haven't heard much buzzwise.

Re:It's the right move (PS3 new games) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18805827)

FF13 (which will be ported, they announced it)

no, they didn't

Re:It's the right move (1)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 7 years ago | (#18807043)

You forgot Ratchet & Clank. FFXIII - exclusive or not - isn't realistically due out until next year, and even then, might not come to the US until late 2008, or even 2009.

As for multi-platform games, so far, the graphics and game play have been nearly identical between the PS3 and 360. If anything, reviewers have given a slight edge to the 360 in a few cases.

With the Xbox and PS2, multi-platform games did look better on the Xbox, so there was at least a bit of an edge to buy a Xbox, or at least, buy your multi-platform games for your Xbox.

But with the 360 vs. the PS3...there isn't such an edge - AND - the PS3 is $200 more expensive than the 360.

Ok, sure, you can compare exclusive games, but even there, the PS3's current library looks pretty weak compared to what the 360 has. Granted, the 360 has a 1 year lead on the PS3. As you point out, many of the PS3's big titles haven't come out yet.

Which then brings me to my final question - how long do you think the publishers are going to wait for PS3 sales to pick up? Poor sales will lead more publishers to reconsider making exclusives for the PS3. No one will buy a console with a poor exclusives library, which again leads to poor sales which again leads to the publishers getting more reluctant to release games for the PS3, and so on.

The PS3 may be the "better" machine, but right now, based on the games that are on the market, I don't see it. Everything the PS3 can do, the 360 does at least as well, for less money. And in some areas, such as online support, the 360 does it BETTER. Sony has a lot of ground to cover if they want to have a chance at giving Microsoft a serious run for its money at this point. I wish them the best of luck.

Agree, still selling well at the moment (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804509)

The PS3 is still ahead [eproductwars.com] of the XBox 360 sales at Amazon (look at the trend data for the PS3 and 360 sales rank in the "primary Systems" category), as it has been ever since Amazon was able to keep the PS3 in stock starting about March 23rd.

I think Sony is holding off on any price move until Microsoft looks like it's doing something similar. Instead the most recent move from Microsoft is releasing an even more expensive version of the 360, so that the gap to get a console and a Blu-Ray player at the same time is just about $100 between the two systems, a closer margin than ever. In essence Microsoft's release of the Elite has created the effect of reducing the cost of a PS3!

So it's a game of corporate chicken, with Microsoft and Sony daring each other to lower the price and stop recouping as much of the R&D costs as they have been.

The article mentions the Wii, but I find that irrelevant to this discussion as the Wii is on a separate path. I think in the end it will sell more consoles than either the 360 or the PS3 (perhaps combined) but buying a Wii will not stop anyone from buying a 360 or a PS3 who would be so inclined - a lot of Nintendos growth over the other consoles will be from people buying the Wii who would not look at a 360 or a PS3 anyway. So the Wii is not a threat to sales of the 360 or the PS3.

I also kind of expcect some kind of price reduction around November, or at least some kind of bundle at the same price. I could go for a Guitar Hero II PS3 bundle, or a Ratchet & Clank bundle...

Re:Agree, still selling well at the moment (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804947)

Maybe at Amazon, but page B1 of the Wall Street Journal [wsj.com] (expensive subscription required, I get it in print) says that the xBox360 is eating the shorts off of the PS3 in the US market, and the Wii is beating the PS3 by a long margin.

Amazon may not be where most people buy gaming consoles.

Older data (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806099)

Yes but that is written from older data, before the end of March. The April sales figures should be more illuminating.

The Wii is beating both handily, to the extent they can provide stock... I'm a little surprised Nintento has had such a long term problem with supply, but I think they just did not realize how popular it would be.

Re:Older data (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806275)

I checked, it's February sales data. Which means it's probably a lot worse.

Re:Agree, still selling well at the moment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18806055)

Online sales aren't worth shit compared to brick and mortar retail and Amazon's sales never accurately reflect the trends of the market as a whole. The NPD numbers, which are based on surveys of a large portion of retailers, say that the Wii is selling the most, followed by the Xbox 360, and then the PS3.

It doesn't look like the PS3 is going anywhere at it's current price and I think it'll have to shed at least $200 before it's even in the race.

Re:Agree, still selling well at the moment (1)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 7 years ago | (#18807685)

yay, sales are up on amazon... maybe it will offset the $1.7 billion loss by a few dollars.

Contending with Xbox Lineup (1)

ObiWanStevobi (1030352) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804583)

But that assumes they can beat Xbox's game line-up. I'm pretty much played through all the good games on the xbox (a rather short list so far), and I am clamoring for the fall line-up they have announced for fall 07:

  • GTA 4
  • Halo 3 * exclusive
  • Ace Combat 6 *exclusive
  • Unreal Tournament III
  • Guitar Hero III
  • Huxley
  • Halo Wars *exclusive
  • Gears Of War 2

Xbox has a pretty awesome lineup for Q3 and Q4 2007. (if they all are released as expected) IMO, Sony cannot wait till late '07 to start putting out descent titles. In case they didn't notice, they are the ones behind. If they are waiting for Halo 3 before thay start competing, they're toast.

Re:Contending with Xbox Lineup (1)

Saige (53303) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806017)

And don't forget the big titles before then - Forza Motorsport 2, Mass Effect, and BioShock. All three seem poised to be system sellers, from what I've been hearing.

I think it'll be interesting to see how the release of Forza 2 affects those waiting for GT4.

Re:It's the right move (1)

Fozzyuw (950608) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805055)

I wouldn't be surprised to see a november cut of about $100

Hey, why wait for a Sony price cut? EBgames/Gamestop is offering a $100 PS3 for the trade-in of a PS2 (an extra controller and a 8MB card). Probably because GS makes a killing on used systems/games and the PS2 is out selling the PS3. Though, even with a $100 trade-in credit, I still wouldn't buy a PS3 for $500. Sure, it's not a price cut, but the PS3 does have some backwards compatibility with PS2, so it might be the kicker for some.

Then again, I'm that guy who only bought a used PS2 last November (pretty much because of Guitar Hero). Now that X360 has GH2 and (overly expensive) download tracks of GH1 songs, I'm more inclined for a x360 (and a larger game catalog). Plus they have some games I kind of want to play (Dead Rising).

I'll wait for the x720 to be released and pick-up a cheap x360 in 3-4 years. I've got a Wii and I'm happy playing the occasional super fun game and filling in-between with PC gaming.

Cheers,
Fozzy

My eyes! (3, Insightful)

The Real Nem (793299) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803919)

Of the 134 words in the summary, 24 were not part of a link. I'd post something constructive, the I could bare to rear more than 10 words of the summary (and we all know the golden rule about reading TFA). Sheesh!

Re:My eyes! (1)

mathletics (1033070) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804041)

Looks like you didn't preview your post either.

Re:My eyes! (1)

The Real Nem (793299) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804985)

Actually, I did. I have mild Dyslexia and consequentially a very difficult time with interchanging words. I'm often blind to it without rereading something 10 times or more.

Zonkism (1)

a16 (783096) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804143)

Don't worry, it's just Zonk again. Is it too much to ask for editors to learn how to use hyperlinks without screwing them up, and failing that, preview before publishing to the front page of one of the top 500 sites [alexa.com] in the world?

Frankly, it's embarrassing.

Re:Zonkism (3)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804917)

The editors don't even write the articles, they just click an extra button in firehose and fill in the "from the $department dept." field. Sometimes they stick a breezy little comment in.

Basically, it's digg with less content.

Re:My eyes! (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804367)

I could bare to rear

Don't most people have to "bare" in order to "rear" anyways?

Driving co. into the ground? (1, Insightful)

rfunches (800928) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803923)

Seriously, is Sony intentionally driving itself into the ground? (and no, I'm not trolling)

It's a known fact that consoles don't bring in revenue, it's in-house games and accessories and licensing fees. If the PS3 price were even remotely close to the XBox 360, I could see Sony not cutting the price on grounds of competitive pricing; that's clearly not the case. I can't see sales ticking up significantly through the first price drop, unless there's something I'm missing.

Re:Driving co. into the ground? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18804119)

It's a known fact that consoles don't bring in revenue
Nintendo would beg to differ.

Re:Driving co. into the ground? (3, Insightful)

Applekid (993327) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804169)

Consoles don't usually bring in revenue, no, but the PS3 is estimated to cost $800 per unit to get out the door but it's selling for $600. (The $500 model is discontinued.) Typically, the cost per unit is considered proprietary information so it's only an estimate. This means it's hard to pin down but I do believe this is the highest net loss per unit of any console ever. If they already have to sell a bunch of games and accessories (X) to break even, if they drop the price by another $100 they'll just have to have an average of each user now buy (X * 1.5) games and accessories.

They're bleeding on PS3 right now, so should they bleed more? I guess someone crunched some numbers and came to the same conclusion you did.

Putting on my tinfoil hat, I'd say these rumors of price drops that simply will NOT die are a combination of 1 part wishful thinking, 1 part wanting to make existing owners panic, and 1 part of helping to stifle sales as consumers who are on the fence about pricing would most certainly not want to buy if they anticipate a drop.

Re:Driving co. into the ground? (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804305)

the PS3 is estimated to cost $800 per unit to get out the door but it's selling for $600.
sitting on store shelves collecting dust is an interesting definition of selling : )

Re:Driving co. into the ground? (1)

Applekid (993327) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804457)

If not customers, it'll be retailers and distributors that eat that $600. Sony still gets to claim it since they shipped. (Middle men are making some money on them but it isn't much.)

Re:Driving co. into the ground? (1)

Rydia (556444) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805367)

If I recall, after a point retailers are able to force-sell excessive stock back to the manufacturer at discounted cost. I remember Nintendo tried to not do that and got bit sometime in the 80s.

So even if they are shipped, that doesn't mean Sony is completely in the clear.

Re:Driving co. into the ground? (2, Informative)

barjam (37372) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804477)

The Wii is being sold at a tidy profit.

Re:Driving co. into the ground? (2, Interesting)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804697)

The PS3 isn't just a console though, it's an entertainment system. Sony have lots of potential for revenue - sales of the system, games, downloadable games, DVDs, music, memory sticks + other accessories, blu-ray discs and of course HD sets. In the future they're bound to also sell music, films and TV shows through the system too. And users have lots of justification for spending more because it plays blu-ray, dvds, cds, games etc.

I have no idea if Sony are doing the right thing, but people who thing the PS3 is just a games console aren't seeing things from Sony's perspective. Games are an important part of the lineup, but they're not the only one.

Re:Driving co. into the ground? (1)

BobPaul (710574) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805331)

Sony is still probably selling at at least a $100 loss on components/manufacturing. Microsoft and Nintendo are both probably selling at around a $50 gain on components/manufacturing. If Sony were to cut the price they would take an even bigger loss.

Right now it's safest for Sony to keep the price high while component/manufacturing costs decrease so as to diminish their losses. Even if they are selling slowly, they are still selling. If they decreased the cost, certainly they would sell faster but they might actually end up further in the whole because of the more significant loss they'd be taking per unit.

Believe it or not, but marketing actually collects a lot of data to feel out demand. Sony is selling here, because ATM it provides the best price/sales ratio for their product. Once they can turn a per unit gain due to cost reduction, OR there are more compelling games for the platform, they may lower the cost.

Wow (4, Insightful)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803967)

Wait for demand for Blu-Ray drives?

Is there any demand, whatsoever?

Hell - demand for HDTVs isn't even all that high.

Regardless, I can watch HD movies via Comcast on demand, download them via XBox 360, or to a PC.

I have no problem at all getting HD content onto my screen.

Why should (most)people care about plastic discs anymore?

Re:Wow (1)

countSudoku() (1047544) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804287)

"Wait for demand for Blu-Ray drives?

Is there any demand, whatsoever?"

Yes! I have a demand for the blu-ray drives; get down to the sub-$400 price point. Hurry!

Personally, I'll be buying regular, old-fashioned, highly copyable, widescreen (if available) DVD5/DVD9 movies and shows until they stop making them, or when either one, or both, of the HD "standards" becomes:

1) easily copyable
2) an actual standard
3) priced nicely
4) there is no number 4
5) guaranteed to play on any supposedly compatible drive. is that too much to ask?

As far as games go... we'll the non-price cut just made the xbox360 look a whole lot better.

Come on, Sony. What's your problem? I *want* to buy PS3, but you're not making it very easy.

Re:Wow (1)

Joe Snipe (224958) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804987)

4) there is no number 4

stop wasting my internets! You think tube trucks grow on trees?!?

Re:Wow (2, Insightful)

pete-classic (75983) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804417)

Why should (most)people care about plastic discs anymore?


Bandwidth?

I don't have HDDVD or Blu-ray. Every HD source I've seen so far is seriously over-quantized. Cable, satellite, downloads (legal and otherwise) all look like crap (in ascending order of crapitude).

It seems to me that the powers that be decided that more lines means more room for loss. HD in practice seems to be mostly a wash.

I've got an ATSC tuner coming in tomorrow. Hopefully that means Lost and Heroes in actual HD.

It appears that over-the-air and on little plastic discs are the only places to get "HD" with, you know, high definition. That's why I care.

-Peter

Re:Wow (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804909)

Movies on video marketplace on XBox Live look as good as their HD-DVD/BluRay cousins.

Sucks you dont have broadband.

Re:Wow (1)

pete-classic (75983) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805903)

Blu-ray: One or two 25gb layers. [blu-ray.com]
Xbox 360: One 20gb drive. [amazon.com]

How on Earth can you have full-quality movies on the Xbox marketplace?

I read some review that says that a 45 minute TV show is 2.2gb in their HD format. That's 4.4gb for a 90 minute movie compared to 25gb for a 90 minute movie on Blu-ray. That's 6.7 Mbits/s compared to 37.9 Mbits/s. Am I meant to believe that Microsoft has some secret video codec that is five times as efficient as VC-1 (or their own Media Player 9 codec)?

For the record, I do have broadband and an Xbox 360. And you must have horrible vision.

-Peter

Re:Wow (1)

Nightspirit (846159) | more than 7 years ago | (#18807749)

First, the xbox live HD movies are 720p and not 1080p, which negates alot of the bandwidth difference. Second, the quality of xbox movies is actually pretty good, enough so that I don't feel guilty for spending the extra dollar.

Re:Wow (1)

asc99c (938635) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805127)

I agree partially here. I've got some Planet Earth episodes downloaded from the internet in direct transport stream format from the BBC HD service - I'm not in the trial area :( It takes about 8.5 GB / hour. Real time downloads are out but it is still possible to get over the internet. The problem for now is that just a few hours of decent quality HD footage costs a vast amount in hard disc storage. A few plastic discs are more convenient and cheaper.

Apparently the Blu-Ray version of Planet Earth is being released next week. If you've got an HD setup you want put to some real use, grab a copy (it's in HD-DVD also). I'm hoping it's region free cos they're not releasing in the UK.

Re:Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18805685)

>Bandwidth?

h.264 @ 1080 looks great at about 3 or 4 gigs a movie. Sure you need a decent machine to play it, but it's certainly affordable to play nowadays.

Re:Wow (2, Insightful)

pete-classic (75983) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806851)

If it looks "great" then why can't we have HD movies on single layer DVDs? That is, after all, the same codec that Blu-ray and HD DVD use.

You should have your vision checked.

-Peter

Re:Wow, or HD and Blu-Ray not clicking (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804899)

Wait for demand for Blu-Ray drives?

Is there any demand, whatsoever?

Hell - demand for HDTVs isn't even all that high.


Actually, even the tech pages at the Wall Street Journal [wsj.com] admit that most people shouldn't buy HD-DVD or Blu-Ray yet, as it will be at least a year before anyone really has a need for either, and noone can predict what will happen. But you're correct about HDTV - demand won't really kick in until 2009, when everyone will start buying them (since they won't sell non-HDTV-capable sets in the US after that). That's when a nice 40 inch HDTV with full 1080p will go for $300 to $500. No sense jumping in until then - which makes the whole PS3 Blu-Ray setup a waste.

Re:Wow, or HD and Blu-Ray not clicking (2, Informative)

Detritus (11846) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805359)

The FCC is mandating digital TV, not High Definition TV. I saw a cheap SDTV (14" CRT, digital, 480i) at a local big box store for $125. That meets the FCC's mandate and will allow you to watch all over-the-air programming, it just down-converts HD to SD.

Re:Wow, or HD and Blu-Ray not clicking (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805569)

The FCC is mandating digital TV, not High Definition TV. I saw a cheap SDTV (14" CRT, digital, 480i) at a local big box store for $125. That meets the FCC's mandate and will allow you to watch all over-the-air programming, it just down-converts HD to SD.

While you are technically correct, the reality is that consumers are perceiving this as a mandate for HDTV.

Remember, only one-third of people who have HDTV are actually using HDMI cables to get more than 480p. So they have fancy boxen that can crank out 720p or 1080i or even 1080p and they have not hooked up the cables (or even bought them sometimes) to actually get full HDTV transmission.

Again, I will be buying a 1080p 40 inch (or 42 inch) HDTV for about $300 to $500 in 2009 (or at the latest, at the President's Day sale in 2010, 2/19). You can pay $2500 or $2000 or even (bargain) $1500 for that now - or you can join the mass wave of HDTV 720p and 1080p purchasers in 2009.

Never underestimate the power of the consumer. Doesn't matter if they're right. What they do makes markets. Just ask Sony ...

Re: Are you joking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18805693)

> Regardless, I can watch HD movies via Comcast on demand, download them via XBox 360, or to a PC.

Yeah, that's so much more convenient that putting in a disc and hitting play, using a box that is hooked up with the now standard hdmi cabling. And the quality of your compressed HD source...doesn't match up too well. (nevermind the directv version of 1080i)

Thanks the PS3 sales, Bluray is doing alright, though it would be doing a hell of a lot better if players were selling similar to the price of the $400 toshiba for hd-dvd. And when the list of titles is a lot better than it is now.

Suggesting a price cut right now is retarded (1)

Southphillyman (1064260) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803993)

The console has been out for what 6 months?!?!?! It's entirely too earlier for Sony to panic right now, not to mention the 3 million + people who brought it at full price would have a sore taste in their mouths. Sure a price cut is coming ONE day....but do you think Sony is going to tell you ahead of time? Lol. Stop asking , when the price cut comes you'll know. When sony decided on the price being $600 they were confident in it and should keep it at that price for a few years.

Re:Suggesting a price cut right now is retarded (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804133)

It's entirely too earlier for Sony to panic right now, not to mention the 3 million + people who brought it at full price would have a sore taste in their mouths.

If those people were rational, they would already have a sore feeling in their ass for the lubeless fucking they've gotten from Sony.

I don't think that the price will be staying where it is for "a few years". I don't think they can survive that way. Microsoft will be making a price drop within that time and at that point they will truly have no choice but to make one themselves. The PS3 is already the most expensive console, and they're even dropping the $500 model! You will have to spend at least $100 more to get a PS3 than an Xbox 360.

At the same time, I agree that it's not yet time to drop the price. But then, I'm not sure that I agree that the PS3 will ever pay for itself.

Re:Suggesting a price cut right now is retarded (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18804815)

I listen to retrogaming radio every month and in one of their monthly recordings they had an interview with an x-atari employee, he made a great point, the money is not made on the hardware but on the software, the more consoles in the market the more demand for the software, if a company really wants to trump every one else, offer the hardware for free get as much out there as quickly as possible and the software will follow.

Re:Suggesting a price cut right now is retarded (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805037)

the money is not made on the hardware but on the software

This isn't news. But several other things are also true. Among them:

  1. Gamers go where the games are.
  2. The games are where the developers are.
  3. The developers are where the gamers are.
  4. GOTO 1

Sony completely fucking blew the PS3 launch. There are simply not enough games that people actually want, and the price is astronomical so many people decided to wait for more games to be released. But the result of that is that there are less PS3s sold. Developers want to make games for consoles that people actually own, so they will be less inclined to make PS3 games. This won't result in many games being cancelled, but it will result in less games being exclusive to the PS3 - the installed base is less than any other console for which people are still making/selling games, so making a PS3 exclusive is guaranteeing that your profits will be reduced. Since there are less games, and less exclusives (which have traditionally been strong selling points - for example zillions of people bought the PS2 just for Tekken Tag, Gran Turismo, or a Final Fantasy title) this means that less people will want to buy the system.

If you can't sell games, you're not going to make the money.

Also keep in mind that Nintendo makes money when they sell game consoles. They don't lose it. So even if they sold less units they still wouldn't be losing money on consoles. This is why there's room in the industry for first place, second place, and Nintendo. But if Nintendo takes first or second place, I think there's distinctly less room left...

Re:Suggesting a price cut right now is retarded (1)

asc99c (938635) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805191)

This is why there's room in the industry for first place, second place, and Nintendo. But if Nintendo takes first or second place, I think there's distinctly less room left...

D'oh, I've got mod points but I've already posted.

in regards to the post (2, Funny)

enochweedy (1081949) | more than 7 years ago | (#18803999)

hyper-link much?

Re:in regards to the post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18804253)

Yes. Way too much.

Re:in regards to the post (1)

grolschie (610666) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804679)

...too much, oh much too much!

Hey Sony, JVC is calling... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18804097)

You're late on your last VHS royalty payments.

You'd figure Sony would learn; alas, companies like this never do.

Market competition? (2, Informative)

Aeron65432 (805385) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804099)

They claim that "PS3 prices and shipment plans for the future should be determined by market trends and competition." There is no competition for who can sell the PS3, so they can arbitrarily price it wherever they want. This is a simple supply-demand curve, and they have put the price level where supply far exceeds demand, and anyone who has been to a Gamestop, Target, etc. can tell you this. I asked an employee at Target if he had any Wiis and he laughed a bit and said "No, but I've got plenty of PS3s.

"...this year on the PS3, PS3, and PSP systems." (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18804125)

look zonk - i know you're an ms fan boy and you dislike sony - but come on! did you even proofread this article before you submitted it?

i'm gonna go ahead and guess the answer is no.

Naturally no announced price cut... (5, Insightful)

geders (206556) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804147)

I don't understand why people are confused about the lack of a price cut announcement.

You don't tell the public that a poorly selling, expensive product is going to be $100 cheaper next month unless you want even lower sales for the next month. Lower sales for that month means even lower numbers of customers looking to buy software for the machine.

The announcement of the PS3 price cut will come the same day as the PS3 price cut (see PSP price cut as an example).

PS3 currently selling better than the 360 (3, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804553)

You don't tell the public that a poorly selling, expensive product is going to be $100 cheaper next month

Generally you have the right idea but PS3 sales are actually not all that bad - it's currently at a higher sales rank [eproductwars.com] than the 360 on Amazon, and has been since March 23rd when Amazon finally was able to keep stock around.

I think you are right about the day of announcement of the PS3 price cut, but would further predict that it will come the day after the day Microsoft announces a 360 price cut, which will of course be same day Microsoft also cuts prices. Sony and Microsoft are waiting til one does a cut before the other one, and both are enjoying higher profits (and unknoably lower sales) as a result.

Re:PS3 currently selling better than the 360 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18807027)

Did you find that little quote under "Fairy tales Sony fanboys tell themselves to sleep at night"?
You realize that most people don't buy their big items (and pay expensive shipping) from Amazon when they are readily available at a local store, right? Since the 360 outsold the PS3 by 2:1 the previous month, it is unlikely the ever widening sales gap between the two is suddenly going to reverse itself. Face it, the PS3 is this generations Gamecube- good initial sales but it will be unable to gain marketshare against its two better-selling competitors. Already third parties are curtaling PS3 development- much earlier than third party developers abandoned the Gamecube. Not a good sign. And blu-ray is a total flop- it's selling at a slower pace than even UMD.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/gear/2005-05 -22-handheld-movies_x.htm [usatoday.com]

Re:Naturally no announced price cut... (1)

GrayCalx (597428) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804643)

Ding ding ding ding! I'd give you +6 Insightful, but there isn't such a thing. And I have no mod points. Annnnd I'm kind of lazy, but you're spot on!

At the moment... (2, Interesting)

Mockylock (1087585) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804171)

They have no reason to drive down prices. Right now, they're actually losing on units as-is. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure that people are buying the hell out of them, regardless of the price due to it simply being a Playstation. I couldn't see them changing the price and going from losing a bit on each unit, to plain burying themselves with every purchase.

If Microsoft somehow purchases the Blu-ray/HD-DVD combo drives for 360 expansion, I believe Sony would be taking a swift kick in the nuts. I doubt Sony would allow it, and those sales would also allow PS3 to drop prices a bit faster as well... so MS may not do it for that reason.

Re:At the moment... (1)

finkployd (12902) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804843)

Not only that, but I'm pretty sure that people are buying the hell out of them, regardless of the price due to it simply being a Playstation.

I'm pretty sure they are not. Look at the sales compared to the other consoles out there, they are awful. Not to mention that fact that pretty much every target/gamestop/circuit city/bestbuy etc. has boxes of them sitting around.

Finkployd

Re:At the moment... (1)

Mockylock (1087585) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805047)

Ya know.. I never really looked at the numbers until now, only because more than half the people I know have them. After seeing them, that's horrid. It's good to see they're getting what they deserve, imho.

Another option for Sony (1)

Stupidfat (1009173) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804173)

Here's a solution: drop the price in the US by $300, but *raise* the price in Sweden by $300. The Swedish won't care because the PS3 is already the equivalent of $1000 USD and they aren't buying it anyway. The US people who want the PS3 more than everybody else will get what they want and everyone's happy. It's simple balance accounting. I've almost completed my application to my company's Finance department. This post will be icing on the cake.

Related news: Layoffs at Sony (2, Interesting)

FleaPlus (6935) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804213)

In related news, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe is looking at layoffs of 10% of its workforce [kotaku.com] , with additional layoffs planned for Japan and the US [kotaku.com] . Of course, Sony says this has nothing to do with low demand for the PS3.

Re:Related news: Layoffs at Sony (1)

pragma_x (644215) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804459)

It probably doesn't, although having a so-so launch lineup probably isn't helping much.

If anything it probably has something to do with how well God of War and God of War II did. My guess is that the US development team showed up the rest of the entertainment division so badly, that everyone not involved in those two games look like dead weight both figuratively and on the books.

As Slashdot's (only?) Sony fan ... (3, Informative)

asc99c (938635) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804447)

I've gone for the full 1080p setup over the last few months, which includes a PS3. Last weekend we had a few people round and spent a bit of time playing Gran Turismo HD and Motorstorm. Two of the guys have 360s and were pretty impressed by the jump in graphics quality. GT plays properly in 1080p, and although Motorstorm only runs at 720p, it is really breathtaking. I can't fairly comment on Xbox360 quality because I've never seen one hooked up properly - the PS3 looks rubbish connected through SCART or component at 576i resolution, and for Xbox360 that's the only setup I've seen. So my unfair comment is that really the Xbox360 is half a generation behind Sony/Nintendo. Other consoles that have tried the same thing have started well and kind of fizzled out once the competition got going.

I know a few people thinking about getting a PS3, and it's not really the price issue that's holding them back but the content. Gran Turismo and Grand Theft Auto are two of the big games people are waiting for. Also a lot of places are still price gouging - the games seem to be £35 online but £50 on the high street. Some decently priced Blu-Ray movies would also be good. I found Tesco are selling them for £13 now, but most retailers are still around the £25 mark. Unfortunately I can't find Casino Royale or Planet Earth in stock anywhere :(

Re:As Slashdot's (only?) Sony fan ... (2, Insightful)

GrayCalx (597428) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804725)

Just wanted to throw in that the 360 does look pretty amazing at 720p. So far seeing ps3 games and 360 games at 720p I haven't seen anything on the ps3 that really "wow'd" me. (Not to say it didn't look good, just nothing that made me regret getting a 360). Can't speak to the 1080p though, so thats definitely an opportunity for Sony to excel if the 360 doesn't start putting its own 1080p games out.

On the other hand again its ridiculous to say that the graphical output of a 360 in HD is a half-generation behind the Wii.

Re:As Slashdot's (only?) Sony fan ... (3, Insightful)

asc99c (938635) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804879)

Yeah the Wii isn't half a generation ahead of the 360 graphically. But it does have controllers a generation ahead. That's part of the problem launching first. Sony got to see what people thought of the 360, and also hear what Nintendo was doing, and try for the best of both.

The tilt sensors in the PS3 controller are a nice touch and I'd like to see some games make better use of it. Tony Hawks uses the tilt sensors for balancing on grinds / manuals. It feels like a really natural way to do it and for me that was the killer feature vs the PC version I've got. Motorstorm can use them for turning, but that feels like a tacked on extra that doesn't really work.

I don't think Sony has caught up with online stuff yet. The headsets for the 360 also sound like a great piece of kit I'd like to see on the PS3. But that's all software. I think Sony concentrated on getting the hardware in place to do anything the 360 can do, with the idea they can improve software later.

IMO the 360 holds the GFX crown right now (1)

anss123 (985305) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805749)

But, I think the PS3's price might actually help the console, giving it a sort of 'status symbol' badge. Then again, we're not talking about a car so probably not :)

As for me, all current consoles (from the PS2/Wii to the PS3) is waaay to expensive for what they offer.

Re:As Slashdot's (only?) Sony fan ... (1)

cplusplus (782679) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806167)

Gears of War @ 1080i looks pretty darn amazing, even though it's component video. Comparing a high def signal to a non high def signal is silly, a lesson I recently learned. I sold my HDTV and had ordered another. Before the new TV arrived, I was playing on a standard old 4x3 tube. Gears of War looked so much worse on that TV :( (not bad per say, but not nearly as nice as 1080i).

Re:As Slashdot's (only?) Sony fan ... (1)

cxreg (44671) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806375)

The lead Resistance: Fall of Man developer (or someone like that) had some high praise for the Unreal engine (particularly the streaming textures feature) which is responsible for a lot of what games that game look as nice as it does. Always refreshing when developers are honest about their competition.

not a rejection? (1)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804585)

Didn't RTFA but that quote doesn't actually feature a denial from Sony, just that they haven't made any noises about a price cut publically.

In the UK prices dropped £25 ($50) as a special offer for the Easter holidays. However despite these holidays ending the price remains reduced as stores are trying to clear stockrooms filled with PS3 units. Consoles have very tight margins compared to games but take up huge amounts of space. Stores can't sell the consoles at the current price, the longer they have these boxes gathering dust, the less keen stores will be to place more orders.

165,000 units sold at launch, 34,000 a week later, 17,000 a week after that. Those aren't good figures.

In related news, Sony fired game developers (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18804835)

Guess they know that, without price cuts, they will be at best 3rd place.

Which is kind of a shame, in that they have the better internal machine, even if they have very very few fun games that are designed for it.

I'll just be having fun downloading the final version of Opera for free to use on my Wii, and playing Super Mario Paper Cut ...

Cartmanland Strategy (2, Interesting)

rlp (11898) | more than 7 years ago | (#18805945)

Sony needs to take their current marketing plan to the next level - "This is the incredible new Sony PS/3 - and YOU CAN'T BUY ONE!!!"

Re:Cartmanland Strategy (1)

rlp (11898) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806107)

My bad - Sony isn't using the Cartmanland Strategy, Nintendo is. And it's working!

I Love These Rumors (1, Troll)

Benedick (737361) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806491)

I seriously enjoy every time I see a rumor about a PS3 price cut. Having moved firmly into the anti-Sony camp, these are the best things around. The more play the rumors get, the more likely it is that anyone thinking about getting a PS3 will hold off, thereby keeping PS3 sales low. Then Sony has to come out and deny the rumors, making themselves look greedy.

Now, the best part: let's assume one of these days the rumor is true. That's almost better! There's no way it'll ever get down to competing with the Wii. If it gets close to 360 territory, MS will simply lower their price. Everyone will jump on Sony for having denied the rumor and, the best part, Sony will be taking a larger loss on every unit sold.

The only thing that could possibly go wrong is that Sony ends up selling enough PS3s so that BluRay becomes the dominant standard for next-generation DVD. I actually think this will happen... for physical media. But electronic distribution will hopefully make it a hollow victory. That way, Sony can have seriously injured their best money making division (SCE) for the sake of forcing another one of their formats down our throats.

Oh! Almost forgot! I heard from a friend of my brother's ex-wife's next-door neighbor, who knows a guy who works at Sony, that they're about to drop the price of the PS3 all the way to 50 cents!

Re:I Love These Rumors (1)

Deadbolt (102078) | more than 7 years ago | (#18806757)

Oh! Almost forgot! I heard from a friend of my brother's ex-wife's next-door neighbor, who knows a guy who works at Sony, that they're about to drop the price of the PS3 all the way to 50 cents!

I still wouldn't buy one.
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