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Gamers Grapple With VA Tech Shooting

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the tough-week-for-everybody dept.

Games 419

I imagine it's been a hard week for a lot of people; gamers in particular have been jumping to defend their hobby from the likes of Dr. Phil and Jack Thompson, both of whom were quick to link gaming and the tragedy in Virginia. Despite their vigor, it seems like game enthusiasts can breathe easily this week. As far as most people can tell, gaming was in no way involved. Even the mainstream media is coming to realize that gaming isn't always the right place to turn when youth violence grabs the headlines. Just the same, some activist gamers are still trying to make sure their hobby comes out of this unscathed, and at least some folks think they may be overdoing things: "While I'm all for activism for one's beliefs, I really think this may do more harm then good. As gamers, we feel a need to defend our passion, but we run the risk of ending up looking no better than those seeking to shift blame, while further disrupting the already-mourning. I say that the thing to focus on at this point is simply remembering those lost and cherishing what we still have. Now's not the time for political vendettas, and gamers need to step down and just humbly accept the fact that blame will always be shifted to the popular youth activities: be it a KISS concert, a video game, or something else."

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Jesus is to blame! (5, Insightful)

fredrikj (629833) | more than 7 years ago | (#18815921)

From Wikipedia: "In one of the videos, Cho compares himself to Jesus Christ, explaining that his death will influence generations of people."

Re:Jesus is to blame! (5, Insightful)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816087)

It should be important for would-be martyrs comparing themselves to Jesus to note that, by most accounts, Jesus didn't take anybody with him when he went down. I mean, his buddy Peter tried that stunt and sliced off somebody's ear, but he got yelled at for it, and some claim that Jesus even went and put it back on.

Re:Jesus is to blame! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816585)

While it's true that Jesus wasn't a Nigger, he WAS a Jew. While he didn't kill anybody, most scholars are certain that he ruined many people financially.

In Soviet Amerika: +1, Helpful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816735)


VA Tech shooting grapples gamers.

Re:Jesus is to blame! (2, Insightful)

dr_dank (472072) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816853)

It should be important for would-be martyrs comparing themselves to Jesus to note that, by most accounts, Jesus didn't take anybody with him when he went down.

But he did inspire at least one copycat [art.com] .

To the flamebait moderators: (-1, Flamebait)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816183)

Modding this comment as flamebait is about as ignorant as you can get. It's called sarcasm - look it up. In this case it's a form of parody. Anyone who moderates any comment like this without either recognizing the commenter or reading their history [slashdot.org] is basically abusing the moderation system.

Re:To the flamebait moderators: (0, Flamebait)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816591)

Not so.

It's called sarcasm - look it up.
Just because it's sarcasm doesn't mean it's not flamebait. Likely to incite a flamewar == flamebait; a post can be both funny and flamebait

Also, moderators shouldn't have to check your post history before moderating your comments -- first, it's too much to ask, and second, comments are contextural.

I wouldn't have modded your post flamebait, but I've no points today. Then again, it seems that your complaint is about someone 'flaming' you via moderation -- so the flamebait moderation would be valid. How's that for a tautology?

All that aside, bitching about being downmodded is pointless, even if you have a valid concern. It's a meta-comment, and thus should be modded OT pretty quickly (as should this one); if you're concerned about mod abuse, follow the procedures in the faq.

Re:To the flamebait moderators: (-1, Troll)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816635)

Just because it's sarcasm doesn't mean it's not flamebait. Likely to incite a flamewar == flamebait; a post can be both funny and flamebait

No, that is not what it means. Congratulations on failing to read (or perhaps understand) the Slashdot FAQ [slashdot.org] . "Flamebait -- Flamebait refers to comments whose sole purpose is to insult and enrage. If someone is not-so-subtly picking a fight (racial insults are a dead giveaway), it's Flamebait."

I wouldn't have modded your post flamebait, but I've no points today.

It's not my post, buddy. But thank you for playing.

Re:To the flamebait moderators: (1, Flamebait)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816885)

Read a little deeper into the moderation section of the FAQ. There is discussion of "flamey" posts and downmodding; of posts that fall into multiple categories. I congratulate you on your inability to read more than one line in the FAQ; it shows that you didn't even bother to comprehend my post (since I refer to the FAQ, it's pretty obvious that there's something in the FAQ that supports what I was saying -- but in your race to spout off, you didn't bother to check more than the surface) before firing off your retarded reply. At any rate, even so, moderation is a matter of interpretation by the moderator, and the post you're referring to could be construed as FB.

It's not my post, buddy. But thank you for playing.
Sorry, I missed that, but no need to be a condescending jackass.

Re:Jesus is to blame! (4, Insightful)

melikamp (631205) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816277)

I wish I could mod you up. People are so intent on dragging in anything they do not like and citing it as a possible cause, it makes my head hurt. Even Eric Harris, who was a big fan of FPS games (designed maps, ran a website) clearly stated that they had nothing to do with his motives. In this latest case, drawing any kind of parallel with games is just evil. These people will use anything that is sensational and bullshit as much as they can to advance their private agenda.

I am sure that the gun control party will have their heyday with this case. They won't care that shooters like Harris and Cho prepare for months and have no scruples with breaking the law. I am not arguing pro or con here (I am still unsure myself), but it is clear to me that

(1) even making all guns illegal will not stop a determined shooter from acquiring them, and, otoh,

(2) making guns legal for everyone will not reduce casualties, because shooters always get to choose time, place, and "audience".

Re:Jesus is to blame! (5, Interesting)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816901)

One of the most appealing arguments I ever heard for gun control was for pistols specifically.

I believe in the right to bear arms, but pistols make me nervous, and hell, they're not much use in most cases. Home invasion? 12 gauge semi-auto loaded with buckshot...Only get 5 shots, but the last three will only be making tiny pieces out of little pieces. Guerrilla war against a repressive government? Automatic rifles.

Pistols? I can't think of a single situation where I wouldn't rather have a bigger, more accurate gun. The only thing they're good for is carrying concealed, and I don't believe in carrying concealed. If you're armed, it should be right out there in the open, none of this sneaky ass concealed crap...What possible rationale is there for carrying concealed? The point is to deter crime, right? Isn't that always the argument? You're not deterring crap if it's concealed. Come up with a better deterrent than walking down the street with a shotgun over one shoulder...You'll have the whole damn sidewalk to yourself.

I've known a lot of pistol carriers in my life, and just about every damn one of 'em pissed me off. Every dumbass with kids who keeps a loaded pistol under the seat of his car, or in his damn desk...If I ever hear the phrase "the safety's on" (after they've pointed it at me) one more time, I'm killing the dumbass who says it.

You know whats sad? Introspecting here. I don't think guns should be controlled because I want to keep them away from criminals...It'd be nice, but it won't happen. What I want to do is keep 'em away from goddamn tubby suburbanites who think they need that gun. What a world.

Re:Jesus is to blame! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816499)

Jesus never would sanction killings you dorkus

Re:Jesus is to blame! (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816745)

I will influence ME to vocally advocate a return to the custom of institutionalizing the mentally ill.

They don't get better, we don't need them on the street, and the only way to keep them in line is heavy meds and iron bars.

Starcraft (5, Funny)

PachmanP (881352) | more than 7 years ago | (#18815925)

He was Korean. Starcraft has to be involved some how.

Re:Starcraft (1)

deftcoder (1090261) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816177)

"We need more vespene gas" = 32 dead?

Re:Starcraft (2, Insightful)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816291)

> He was Korean. Starcraft has to be involved some how.

The Photoshoppers had him pegged [imageshack.us] , probably while he was in ther classrums, killin ther d00dz.

Frankly, I'm all for it.

The less the world sees of him as some terrifying icon of doom, brandishing his weapons on MSNBC while TV narrators breathlessly pore over every word of his screenplay and manifesto... and the more it sees of him as "ch0wn3d", or "Stop! Hammertime!", the better.

Re:Starcraft (1)

getagrip (86081) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816307)

While I understand this comment is meant to be funny, I would like to point out that linking this tragedy to Korea is just as senseless as linking other killings to video games. I already know Koreans who have been harassed and intimidated as a result of what occurred. If you do in fact know anyone from Korea, please try to sympathize with them as many in Korea have sympathized with the victims of the shootings.

Please (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#18817005)

It was funny, and in no way blames koreans for this tragedy

"I already know Koreans who have been harassed and intimidated as a result of what occurred."

I ahve my doubts. This wasn't a government back action, it wasn't supported by a violent religous sect under protection by korea.

This will not lead into an anti korean movement.

In the off chance that you are not lying, you nede to stop being aruond such small mined and stupid people.

I will not sympythize with the koreans just because they are korean, no one is doing them harm.

Giod, could you be more racist?

Re:Starcraft (0)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 7 years ago | (#18817017)

People are stupid. I had it out with a guy who spit on a muslim friend of mine on 9/11...The girl's father had been in the goddamn second tower (he got out) and some whitebread assmonkey was giving her crap for being a muslim when his most personal connection to the damn towers was they he'd seen pictures of 'em? Oh HELL no.

To blame an ethnic group for the actions of individuals in that group is absurd. Not that that's ever stopped people from doing it, but the actions of an individual are the responsibility of that individual, and no one else.

Crazy people are crazy people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18815929)

Regardless of whether they play games. Millions of people play games and don't kill people. If we're going for causation through correlation, that should be enough.

I grapple with boredem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18815943)

The only thing a gamer truely grapples with.

Breaking News (5, Funny)

jkiol (1050424) | more than 7 years ago | (#18815955)

Water linked to mass murderers'! The killer at VA Tech drank water, and there is a lot of supporting evidence that other serial killers also drank water as well.

Re:Breaking News (1)

HolyCrapSCOsux (700114) | more than 7 years ago | (#18815985)

And Oxygen! Every Single Bad person ever has used oxygen.

the fark.com "I blame [fill in the blank] thread" (1)

SaberTaylor (150915) | more than 7 years ago | (#18815963)

was priceless.

Re:the fark.com "I blame [fill in the blank] threa (1)

MrP-(at work) (839979) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816323)

link?

i'm a farker but i missed that thread.. probably because im mainly on totalfark and not the main page.. unless it was a totalfark thread.. either way i missed it, link?

Re:the fark.com "I blame [fill in the blank] threa (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816519)

> i'm a farker but i missed that thread.. probably because im mainly on totalfark and not the main page.. unless it was a totalfark thread.. either way i missed it, link?

Details from VT gunman's suicide note revealed, blames actions on "rich kids" and "debauchery" but makes no mention of Anna Nicole Smith, Don Imus or violent video games [fark.com]

Turned into a whole string of "I blame..." responses.

Usually art imitates life, but sometimes life imitates art. A few threads later After Columbine, Tom Delay blamed the shootings on science classes teaching evolution. Surely, we've learned from past idiots, right? Well... a day after the VT massacre, it appears not [fark.com] showed up, with a link pointing to a Crooks and Liars [crooksandliars.com] article in which Tom Delay blamed the Columbine attack on the teaching of evolution, and some other contemptible ghoul of a fundie whackjob blamed the VT shooting on the teaching of evolution [scienceblogs.com] .

Just when we'd thought we'd blamed it on everything, some fucking fundie freak has to play a game of one-upmanship.

kill em all (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18815987)

rape and pillage

What about... (5, Interesting)

richdun (672214) | more than 7 years ago | (#18815989)

...the shooting at UT-Austin back in the 1960s? Someone see Counter-Strike in a premonition?

Seriously, gamers aren't "grappling" with anything. It's the idiots on TV who can't seem to get ratings from speaking intelligent, well-thought, insightful words and have to resort to fear-mongering and dumbassery (TM). Nothing for anyone to see here, please move along.

Re:What about... (5, Insightful)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816329)

Yes, honestly. The media in general and the 24 hour news channels in particular will say just about anything to fill another long news hour. There is currently a lot more coverage of the news than their is actual news. Or should I say, there's no news that's easy to get to. There's plenty of stuff to cover and actual journalists might make an effort to get to it, but CNN and Fox News are not News. They're entertainment masquerading as news.

Cho was a nut job plain and simple. Beyond that the media can not add anything insightful or useful. "Nut job kills some people at a college in the USA." End of story. Ironically on NPR a couple of days ago the news went like this: "A bomber in Baghdad blew himself and 200 other people up. And in other news, we have a 2 hour interview with a guy who knew a guy who knew Cho and says this all could have prevented if only..." Well not that exactly but that's the general idea. You want to know what it's like to live in Iraq right now? Imagine this massacre at Virginia Tech happening every day and in your own back yard. Or how about Darfur, where this sort of massacre happens daily except that the people doing the killing are using machetes.

Not that I mean to belittle the events at Virginia Tech. The people who went through that will be scarred for the rest of their lives. It's just a pity that the media can't be bothered to give that level of attention to anything that happens outside this country, whether we're directly responsible for those events (As is the case in Iraq) or not. Oh, and if any of the media is reading this, I'm pretty sure the violence in Iraq and Darfur isn't caused by violent video games either. Just to give you a heard start. Now off you go, and don't come back until you have a real story.

Re:What about... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816883)

fear-mongering and dumbassery (TM)

Watch out, O'Reilly already has a service mark on Dumbassery.

He was on a religious rampage, not a gamer rampage (1)

securityfolk (906041) | more than 7 years ago | (#18815993)

His words spoke of being like Jesus, not like being a Level 70 WoW hunter. I think the blame falls squarely on religion, and the guilt/self-loathing that entails. Maybe we can combine the blame and point it to religion *and* the Left Behind gaming franchises.

be careful about blaming to god botherers (3, Insightful)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816631)

His words spoke of being like Jesus, not like being a Level 70 WoW hunter. I think the blame falls squarely on religion, and the guilt/self-loathing that entails. Maybe we can combine the blame and point it to religion *and* the Left Behind gaming franchises.

You can try blaming religeon all you want, but I wouldn't recommend you do it to their faces. You will not meet a more dangerous bunch of humans than humans in the through of a 'god' inspired frenzy. I don't just mean islamists either, there have been more than a few bombers who worshiped the pincushion appendages guy, still are in fact.

Under such a condition, the most normal, loving person can become a killer. All it takes is a leader they trust completelly for moral/life guidance to declare that some unworthy person or group of people is about to kill/attack/otherwise harm them or take away their way of life, and it's out with the pitchforks and firebrands. It's happened often enough.

Want to test it out? Stick a bunch of islamist fundamentalists, fundamentalist christians and fundamentalist jews in a big field with guns in the middle, and watch what happens. I bet it won't be reasonable debate.

Dr. Phil (5, Insightful)

brkello (642429) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816035)

I guess I don't see what the big deal over what Dr. Phil said. He isn't saying violent games make these people kill. He is saying that mixing violent media with psychopaths is going to set these people off. Really, if gamers are so upset by this, they are over-reacting...probably from having to be on the defensive so much from morons like Jack.

Re:Dr. Phil (4, Insightful)

PFI_Optix (936301) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816257)

And there's some truth behind what Dr. Phil said. A violent person when exposed to violent media will tend to act...wait for it...more violently! Wow, what a novel concept.

Think of it this way: a conservative watching Fox News is going to have their conservative beliefs reaffirmed. An environmentalist at an Al Gore lecture will get the same. (And maybe a good nap, too. *zing!*) When you surround yourself with people and media that espouses beliefs like your own, you're going to embrace those more. If you are a violent, aggressive person and spend all your time listening to, watching, and playing violent entertainment, you are encouraging yourself to become more violent.

Re:Dr. Phil (1)

melikamp (631205) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816439)

That's bad news for Dr. Phil, as it implies that his audience will become dumber.

Re:Dr. Phil (1)

modecx (130548) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816509)

That's bad news for Dr. Phil, as it implies that his audience will become dumber.

Nah... If they keep watching, it can be nothing but good news for Philly-boy..

Re:Dr. Phil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816549)

Eventually, they won't be able to figure out how to operate the telemopicture thingee. Where will his ratings be then?

Only old people... (0, Troll)

hal2814 (725639) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816041)

In Korea, only old people are swayed into mass shootings by the violence they experience while playing video games.

Violence is caused by bad parenting (5, Insightful)

umStefa (583709) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816063)

Violent video games have become the scapegoat for societies problems with violence because they are an easy target. Violent games can desensitize children to violence, but this is the fault of the child's parent / guardian. Children have a limited natural sense of what is right and wrong, it is the responsibility of parents to help their children develop a value system that works in society.

The problem is that too many parents fall into one of two categories:

a) The parents who shelter there children from all negative stimulus, and then turn them lose on society at 18 without the ability to determine right from wrong themselves. These new adults now go into society without having someone to tell them what to do and act out on the impulses.

b) The parents who do nothing to develop the child's sense of right from wrong. These parents belive that by never having a consequence for any action their child will magically develop a set moral values. Children who are raised like this can develop tendancies to lash out because they have been taught that their actions have no consequences.

Instead of banning violent video games, we should ban bad parents.

Re:Violence is caused by bad parenting (1)

TheJerg (1052952) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816157)

"Violent video games have become the scapegoat for societies problems with violence because they are an easy target." And I suppose bad parents aren't an easy target or equally as often used as a scapegoat?

Re:Violence is caused by bad parenting (1)

eviloverlordx (99809) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816433)

One question: are you a parent yourself?

I am. And while I agree that bad (or rather, lazy) parenting is to blame for many bad things, I find it interesting that many people who blame bad parents are not only not parents themselves, but probably wouldn't know the first thing to do should a child fall into their lap. I'm not saying that you necessarily fit this mold, but my eyes certainly have been opened about the difficulties in raising a child since my daughter was born.

Re:Violence is caused by bad parenting (1)

aurispector (530273) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816563)

I'm a parent, too. Regardless of his upbringing, I think we can safely assume that he was fucking nuts, as in there was something biologically wrong with his brain. It's a damn shame and frankly I feel kind of sorry for the guy-he was obviously miserable in his short life. If he was carrying around some sort of brain lesion or malformation, how much blame can you really assign to him?

Re:Violence is caused by bad parenting (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816931)

Instead of banning violent video games, we should ban bad parents.

Amen to that! There should be a fucking license. In order to get one, you should have to have a job and insurance, be able to pass some basic tests, and so on.

We should also sterilize (as reversibly as possible) anyone who begins collecting AFDC or TANF, so that they cannot become a further drain on society.

Anyone who would name their child after a car or a bottle of alcohol is automatically disqualified. Disqualify their relatives if they would name their child after a misspelling of same. Kill their whole family if they name their child after a misspelling of a french name like "deseray". Those genes have got to go.

No, but seriously, I think people should have to get a high-maintenance pet. People who raise a well-adjusted pet can have a child license. People who don't can try again. Although I'm sure this will get a lot of flak from the no-cruelty-to-animals types, and I rather agree with them for the most part, I'd rather see people be bad with a pet than a child.

A friend's wife wanted a dog. He wanted to wait, but they got it anyway (of course) because she wouldn't let it alone. Since then he has become primarily responsible for an animal for which he was not prepared. But besides her lack of interest in cleaning up after the animal and such, she sends the dog mixed messages every time she talks to it. When she's upset she still uses her stupid baby voice. She's confusing that dog into oblivion. Think about people who do this shit to their kids! That is the real reason why you see people screaming at their children in the K-Mart when they do something wrong. The kids were programmed by their idiot parents giving them inconsistent messages when they did things they weren't supposed to do, and now some part of their brain thinks they're supposed to do those things!

Most people have no business whatsoever having children. They do not understand even the most basic principles of parenting. Frankly I have enough trouble with my pet (although she is very happy and loves me and all that, she loves me too much and is trying to get frisky with myself and my lady, which is very odd when it comes from a small parrot) and know that I don't need to be having children at this stage in my life. If I want to make a contribution to the lives of children, there are lots of other ways to do that. (Keep your dirty humor to yourself.)

Seung-Hui Cho was 23 years old. (4, Insightful)

sesshomaru (173381) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816133)

Seung-Hui Cho was 23 years old. Now, as far as I know, but I guess I'm old fashioned, 23 years old is an adult. Adults are allowed to drink, joing the army, by M rated video games, drive and by lots of guns. You know, because they are adults. They aren't impressionable children anymore.

I consider the whole, impressionable children thing to be dubious when we are dealing with older teenagers, anyway, but I consider it ridiculous when talking about adult men.

So, what then are Dr. Phil and Jack Thompson trying to say, that video games will turn anyone into a killer, even adults? I think it's interesting that this guy didn't commit any serious crimes until he was well into adult hood.

To me, this represents a shift in the debate. At Jonesboro, you had children commiting mass murder, so trying to figure out what made innocent little boys into monsters makes sense in a way. This is not what we have at Virginia Tech.

Are people going to do this with David Berkowitz now? Jeffrey Dahmer? etc? If some 40 year old murderer gets caught, are they going to check him for Counter Strike experience.

Re:Seung-Hui Cho was 23 years old. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816619)

by M rated video games, drive and by lots of guns.

BUY, BUY, BUY! Jesus, where'd you learn to spell?!?

Re:Seung-Hui Cho was 23 years old. (1)

sesshomaru (173381) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816679)

Yeah, I noticed that after I posted, but there's no way to edit posts after you post.

Hooked on phonics worked for me!

GTA wasn't to blame, but I have to admit... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816147)

I haven't been able to play it since the shooting. I'd been playing "Liberty City Stories" on my PSP for a couple of weeks now, but I just couldn't handle the thought of running into one of those "rampage" symbols that required me to, say, gun down 25 people within 2 minutes. I just had to play something else.

Games aren't to blame for VT. GTA is hella fun and has never once made me feel like I should purchase a handgun, much less use one to hurt someone. But many of the images in our games are of some of the basest acts attributed to humanity. If we just ignore this little fact, the people we'll end up hurting is ourselves. Frankly, I was relieved at my emotional reaction to the game. What kind of a person would I be if I just didn't care?

mod parent down (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816215)

You are either trolling or perhaps the biggest lamer in the universe. You can play fine when hundreds of thousands are dying in iraq, but a few preppy schoolkids and now you get goosebumps. Amazing.

Re:GTA wasn't to blame, but I have to admit... (1)

BoberFett (127537) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816425)

What kind of a person would I be if I just didn't care?
Me?

News: Cure for Apathy Found (1)

jac_at_nac (996340) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816773)

This just in....the masses didn't want it. - George Carlin

Seriously...a major underlying problem in society.

Indifference (4, Insightful)

ZirbMonkey (999495) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816263)

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Kids picked on him in middle school. No one stood up for him.
Kids picked on him in high school. No one stood up for him.
Kids picked on him in college. He bought guns, and killing people.

The only time he every really stood up for himself was when he turned violent. And at that point it was too late. I think it's the culture of indifference that caused this to grow inside an emotionally unstable loner. It has nothing to do with the music he listened to, games he played, or lack of prayer in schools. Society did nothing more than try to ignore him, while he finally refused to be ignored. And in a tragic and unforgivable way, we all stood up to finally pay attention to what he had to say.

Re:Indifference (3, Insightful)

Recovering Hater (833107) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816437)

Kids picked on him in middle school. No one stood up for him. Kids picked on him in high school. No one stood up for him. Kids picked on him in college. He bought guns, and killing people. The only time he every really stood up for himself was when he turned violent. And at that point it was too late. I think it's the culture of indifference that caused this to grow inside an emotionally unstable loner. It has nothing to do with the music he listened to, games he played, or lack of prayer in schools. Society did nothing more than try to ignore him, while he finally refused to be ignored. And in a tragic and unforgivable way, we all stood up to finally pay attention to what he had to say.

Maybe he should have tried standing up for himself in middle school, or at the very least had the common sense to understand that sometimes people are going to treat you unfairly and maybe it's best to just blow it off. Life isn't fair. Instead of building a wall he should have made friends with someone instead. I got picked on too. That argument doesn't hold water. The same goes for high school and college. The simple fact is that he was a complete psycho nutcase that held the world in contempt and had no regard for life. Even his own. The blame lies squarely on his own shoulders.

Re:Indifference (5, Interesting)

Paulrothrock (685079) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816487)

The scary thing is that, were it not for the influence of my girlfriend (now wife and soon to be mother of my child), I could have ended up like him. In reading his "rambling and incoherent manifesto," as people are calling it, I saw a lot of what I hated about my freshman year of college. I hated that everyone seemed to be there for hedonism. I hated that fraternities and sororities and sports teams got all the attention. I hated that I was ignored by everyone around me, and I started to resent them for it.

I was that way until I found a place where I could fit in; a smaller school, and an off-campus apartment with my then-girlfriend, and a little bit of that hedonism for myself. If this guy had someone in his life that could make him feel at home, and to reassure him that not everyone was heartless and self-centered, maybe we'd have 33 more people in the world today.

Re:Indifference (1)

melikamp (631205) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816725)

This should be +interesting.

Prompted by the recent events, I've read the diary of Eric Harris a few days ago, and I was blown away by how coherent and rational his reasoning was. He describes both why and what could happen to avoid it. I think that the biggest mistake people make in judging these guys is when they label them as "insane".

Re:Indifference (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816767)

The even scarier thing to me is that were it not for the fact that I couldn't afford to go to a four year school, I probably would have ended up like him. I was picked on from sixth grade until I got out of school with a CHSPE at the age of fifteen. I was the big kid who was a mama's boy and thus a total pussy. So the only time I ever got into a real fight (and not just picked on by bullies) I gave the kid two black eyes and a bloody spot on his forehead from beating his head into the ground, and got expelled from the school by the administration which was too lazy to do its job. (This was Del Mar Middle School in Santa Cruz County, for those who keep track of such things.) The scary part of that story is that due to my ineptitude he ended up sitting on my back at one point, and I actually blacked out completely and when I came back to myself, I was sitting on his back and beating his head against the ground. (You can tell by the way I keep bringing that up that I am still both enthralled and repelled by this fact.) During that time I could have easily strangled him or gouged both his eyes out. It's a good thing all I did was get up and sit back down on him.

Frankly, I was basically the same person until about the age of 23 or so. It took me that long to "grow up", or something. That's when I stopped being a total mama's boy. Very strange that once I became more willing to commit violence, I became less violent in my heart. There's some kind of bizarre lesson there.

Schools need to make stopping bullying their number one priority for a variety of reasons. The MOST important one is that kids who grow up as bullies grow up into bullies. It creates a whole zero-sum kind of bully mindset that frankly I find to be pervasive throughout American society. But the other reason is that it could have the potential to stop crap like this from happening.

A lot of people say that harassment is what kids need to break out of their shells and become one with the game, but that's certainly not how it happened for me, and I maintain that it is helping to maintain our culture of alternating anger and apathy.

Re:Indifference (5, Informative)

laxpeter (996124) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816529)

Except for the fact that many people tried to help him all along the way: College suitemates inviting him to dinner and trying to talk to him, one on one attention with professors, etc. Society repeatedly tried to reach out to him, and he coldly ignored us.
I'm really at a loss for where you're getting this idea of him being ignored, or even picked on, when all of the reports have shown the exact opposite - someone who forcefully ignored the rest of the world's attempts to include him.

Re:Indifference (3, Informative)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816783)

I wish I had mod points because you are right. I haven't heard anything about him having been picked on.

Re:Indifference (2, Insightful)

j-turkey (187775) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816575)

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Kids picked on him in middle school. No one stood up for him.
Kids picked on him in high school. No one stood up for him.
Kids picked on him in college. He bought guns, and killing people.

The only time he every really stood up for himself was when he turned violent. And at that point it was too late. I think it's the culture of indifference that caused this to grow inside an emotionally unstable loner. It has nothing to do with the music he listened to, games he played, or lack of prayer in schools. Society did nothing more than try to ignore him, while he finally refused to be ignored. And in a tragic and unforgivable way, we all stood up to finally pay attention to what he had to say.

Did kids pick on him in college? It sounded to me that his interpersonal problems involved his being awkward around women moreso than being picked on. Furthermore, he was (to use the technical term) fucking nuts.

I don't think that this is the same case as the Columbine shootings.

I don't disagree that the situation likely had little to do with the music he listened to or the video games that he played.

Re:Indifference (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816911)

It sounded to me that his interpersonal problems involved his being awkward around women moreso than being picked on.

After a lifetime of being made fun of whenever he tried to speak, was there a difference in his head anymore? Wouldn't you be awkward around women if experience indicated that they were going to laugh at you?

While everyone's pointing fingers, why the hell didn't he get some speech therapy back in middle school? My school put me in speech therapy back when I was a kid, and paid for it themselves, but maybe that was because I had a lisp and people were happy to spend their tax money making sure I didn't catch The Gay because of it. I guess spending tax money so that Cho would be able to make friends and not go on a murdering rampage wasn't so high on their list of priorities.

I don't think that this is the same case as the Columbine shootings.

I think the only difference is in how long he managed to hold out before snapping.

Re:Indifference (1)

melikamp (631205) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816583)

I completely agree with you, and I am pleasantly surprised by the mods' reaction. Concerning the last point... People will listen, but, unfortunately, it doesn't seem like that many of them will hear what he had to say. The common opinion about these shooters is that they are total psychos. That is despite the fact that they leave behind lengthy diaries where they explain (for the most part, cogently) their motives and reasoning.

Re:Indifference (1)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816813)

Kids picked on me in middle school. No one stood up for me. Kids picked up on me in high school. No one really stood up for me. Kids picked on me in college (in the midst of the typical reckless wanton hedonism). I ignored them, found a small cluster of friends; I'm graduating in ~30 days, and have accepted a job in California for over $70k/yr. (In the midst of even more reckless wanton hedonism, surely, but I think I'll manage somehow.)

Is he right about the existence of a culture of indifference, a culture of alienation, reckless wanton hedonism, and such? Dude, my local Franciscan priest was just talking about exactly that the Sunday before the incident. Is he right to point out problems in the school system? Dude, primary education is pretty vicious! Do you get to shoot people up because of all that? Umm, no. His theory of moral responsibility for the killings holds water about as well as a colander: it all drains away if you look at it for more than a moment; most people (fortunately) seem to realize that.

Maybe some good can yet come of the deaths, but I think he's largely been counterproductive and has not helped his cause one little bit.

Re:Indifference (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816843)

What The Fuck????

"Kids picked on him?" Kids picked on him???? That's reason for murder in your eyes? Picked on him?

I got picked on is school, too. I fought back. My daughters were picked on - God, my odest daughter is learning disabled, do you have any idea how badly she got picked on? My youngest daughter is a gifted nerd girl, but she has an attitude.

Here's a clue - being picked on doesn't make anybody commit murder. Being a fucking evil psychopath makes you commit murder.

I urge you to seek professional counselling, son, before you or someone else gets hurt. Your attitude is past warped. You truly need help.

-mcgrew

Re:Indifference (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816937)

"I think it's the culture of indifference that caused this to grow inside an emotionally unstable loner. It has nothing to do with the music he listened to, games he played, or lack of prayer in schools. Society did nothing more than try to ignore him, while he finally refused to be ignored. "

I think if society were really so much to blame, we'd have a lot more of these shootings. I would agree that society has room to improve, but I think some of the responsibility rests on this guy's shoulders for not doing something more proactive about it. At some point in our lives, we've all met that 'loser' that only needed to do a couple of things to dig himself out.

Re:Indifference (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816963)

That's a lot of sympathy for him. I pity him, but I think there's a lot more in this cause than a "culture of indifference." Did you miss all reports of the people who said they tried to talk to him? He didn't communicate very well so that when people tried to get close to him he just pushed them away by ignoring them. I suppose his autism comes into play here. I still say his parents had more influence on this outcome than did our "society."
Quite frankly, he didn't really say anything other than that he had issues, as insensitive as that sounds. I think most psychologists are saying he was "psychotic, paranoid, and had lost touch with reality." Those are much deeper problems than being a social outcast.

End all Genetic forensics. (1)

Odinson (4523) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816267)

Someone could also argue this is the other "CSI effect" After commiting a murder as a crime of passion, a new criminal realizes the he will be caught and sent to to jail or even killed. The perception is genetic science insures he(or she) will be caught. They then decide to 'go for it' and settle every grudge in the time before they are caught because there is nothing else to lose.

We need to restrict access to police dramas depicting successful investigations!

Oh wait that's stupid. :/

Thank you CHO!!! We love you!!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816327)

I'm turning Korean
I think I'm turning Korean
I really thank Cho
Turning Korean
I think I'm turning Korean
I really thank Cho

I've got your corpses, I've got your corpses
I'd like a million of them all round my hell
I want the doctor to take a picture
So I can look you from inside as well
You've got me turning up and turning down and turning in and turning 'round

What's really scary... (1, Funny)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816341)

This guy had no life and was an English major! Worst... He took a horror literature class where they read and talked about Stephen King [stephenking.com] . That's what really set him off.

Alas, homicidal English majors don't have the same sex appeal as homicidal video game players.

Re:What's really scary... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816469)

For the twit who mod this as Flamebait, here's the source [nytimes.com] for my comment. ;)

...And Rush Limbaugh defends video games (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816343)

as Ars Technica points out [arstechnica.com] .

Kidnapped by aliens (1)

CheddarHead (811916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816683)

I just had to follow that link and read this comment by Limbaugh. After having read the comment I'm now very concerned for the safety of Mr. Limbaugh. Clearly he would never make such a sensible and rational comment. Obviously he's been kidnapped by aliens and replaced by some kind of pod-person duplicate. An investigation should be started immeadiately!

Re:...And Rush Limbaugh defends video games (1)

trongey (21550) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816781)

Well, if that won't convince people that video games are bad the I don't know what will. And I've actually been thinking to downloading the free trial of WoW. Crap.

Which game caused Darfur? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816361)

People should worry less about virtual violence, and more with the real thing.
And celebs should just shut up.

Gaming and reality (1, Insightful)

xmundt (415364) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816385)

Greetings and Salutations.
          I ran a D&D campaign for WAY to many years, and, while there was a lot of violence at times, anyone that participated in it understood that there was a real difference between the fantasy violence and violence in reality. However, I have seen folks that are unable to keep those separate. I do not, though, think that the games are responsible for violent behavior in real life. I do agree with the other poster that dings the parents for not giving their kids a solid set of positive values.
          But then, I also think that the biggest problem with the VT shooting was that there were too FEW guns on campus. After all, if an armed student, or staff/faculty member had the ability to defend against this rampage, it would have cut the body count down by QUITE a bit.
          Gun control is not keeping weapons out of the hands of citizens. It is being able to put half a dozen bullets into a 1" circle at 20 yards or more.
          Thanks for the opportunity to dump out some fuel for a flamewar.
          Dave Mundt

nothing to grapple with, really (4, Insightful)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816399)

Going by all the accounts of his roommates, Cho didn't play videogames. Not that this will stop all the scapegoating and justifications, which is just human nature after all.

Lots to grapple with, really (1)

Harmonious Botch (921977) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816989)

...Cho didn't play videogames...
Maybe that was the problem. Maybe he should have played a few to vent his rage.

In my younger years, we were not so protected. We had toy guns. We played violent games. And, perhaps, we learned something about violence - when it was appropriate and when not. As best I recall, only one guy - in the Texas tower - went nuts with a gun on campus.
Now, there are so many attempts to insulate young men from violence in any form ( including complaints about a statue of a war veteran who has a gun! ), and yet the number of violent acts in the last decade or so rises - Oklahoma City, Va law school, Va Tech, Columbine, etc. I think that there may be a correlation.

So go ahead, play violent games! The bloodier, the better! I'll feel safer around you if you've vented a little adrenaline that way.

Really hard... (1)

7Prime (871679) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816447)

It's really hard to blame games for a crime when its commited by someone who has a long history of mental instability who has been in and out of various instituations for half his life. You can argue that violent video games promote certain amounts of aggression (I'll buy that, in fact), but it's hard to prove that video games promote levels of mental instability to the degree that this person has shown.

Knee-jerk (5, Interesting)

russotto (537200) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816451)

Knee-jerk reactions like this just go to show that people with an agenda will use anything to support their agenda, even if the simplest check reveals it doesn't do so. Anyone remember when Mayor David Dinkens used a stabbing to call for gun control?

So, who has jumped on the VA Tech bandwagon:
Gun control proponents (obviously)
Gun control opponents ("let them shoot back")
Violent game opponents ("It was just like a first-person shooter")
People who want more funding for mental health programs.
People who just want to put weirdos in nuthouses
Security people ("A rent-a-cop in every classroom keeps everyone safe. Oh, and us employed")
Security consultants (obviously)
Drug warriors (he must have been high to do that)
Drug legalization proponents (if he'd just smoked a little weed he'd have had a better perspective)

OK, I made the last two up. But Ariana Huffington (who falls into several other categories) validated "drug warriors" for me, though referring to legal drugs.

Personally, I blame Microsoft and SCO.

Re:Knee-jerk (1)

James McGuigan (852772) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816877)

"What the thinker thinks, the prover proves" - Robert Anton Wilson

Re:Knee-jerk (1)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816889)

Let's add prostitution proponents.

Seriously, if this kid were getting laid regularly, do you think he would have done that?

It is just NOT NATURAL OR HEALTHY for young men to live abstinent lifestyles. If the government took money out of abstinence-only education (hopefully alleviating the sex-phobia most young girls have), and put it in to hiring prostitutes for all the depressed 14+ year old boys who are going mad from their instinctual demand for procreation, we may just end school violence and teen suicide altogether. Incidence of rape would also drop.

Implement the same program in the middle east and see how many young guys decide to become suicide bombers.

I'm only half joking. Maybe even less than half.

Violent Games Save Lives! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816467)

What these wingnuts are missing -- particularly the righties that are saying "Ah, the victims were weaklings and pansies for not jumping the guy who was carrying 2 guns and a lot of ammo" -- are that Video Games Saved Lives.

Seriously. It's not "Oh, let's just rush in and hope for the best" -- it's called a Line-of-Sight pull. Duck around a corner and let the guy with the ranged attack cancel out his tactical advantage by coming to you at which point you're in a much better position to jump him. Wolfenstein, Half-Life, World of Warcraft... LoS pulling is standard operating procedure when dealing with an enemy that's giving you bad odds.

If more people knew how to do an LoS pull, these disasters wouldn't get nearly so out of hand.

Dr Phil (2, Insightful)

Keruo (771880) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816503)

You know, Dr Phil is common joke in Europe.
He's excellent sample of generic level of education in US.
You can be a retard and still manage to be called a Dr.

I'm not sure if anyone in US takes him seriously, but here you'd take Conan O'Brien more seriously than Phil.

Re:Dr Phil (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816823)

Dr. Phil already admitted he was a joke and a failed electrician in Scary Movie 4. But Americans still want to watch him. Go figure.

Education system is to blame (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816545)

Look, if we didn't have all of these colleges congregating people into tiny buildings there would be no way for this guy to kill so many people. Colleges and education are clearly to blame. We must put a stop to such nonsense so our youth are safe.

No wait, its pioneers who are to blame. Those darn pioneers brought gunpowder to America and opened a huge can of worms. Thats who is to blame.

No, its the media...the media covered it, so they are to blame.

Wait, no, its gun sales...if we had no guns this wouldn't happen.

Wait, its this stupid MF'er who shot people who is to blame. If gun laws weren't so strict someone would have shot him before he took out more people. You know...I think thats it. If you disarm the people, you leave them defenseless. 1 person is capable of going on a rampage because we all aren't required to carry guns.

What is it with these people? (1)

JustNiz (692889) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816565)

Why do people like Dr. Phil feel the need to bash gaming even when there's absolutely no evidence to support their claim?

I like Tom's Hardware reviewers comment: Look at how many millions of people play games yet haven't shot-up their local school.

You might as well blame driving cars for it, or drinking coffee, or any other thing mostly everyone has done at least once.

I bet most perpitrators of gun crime has watched Dr. Phil at least once, therefore that MUST be it.

Re:What is it with these people? (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816809)

because people like Dr. Phil are mean little people who take joy in selling snake oil and billing it as a solution to complex problems.

Problems that take habit changes, self evaluation, and the help of others can not be solved in a 10 minute blurb, or a book.

Re:What is it with these people? (1)

guruevi (827432) | more than 7 years ago | (#18817001)

1) It's easy to do (just as you can blame kiddie-porn for all the rapes and teenage mothers in the world)
2) It makes him look smart (hey, you have something to say and it sounds reasonable, he must have a PhD)
3) He's actually a moron (no contest on that I guess, he is just like any other shrink: explaining what you already know in words you don't understand)
4) It appeals to the masses

This logic puts the horse behind the cart (1)

JohnnyComeLately (725958) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816599)

Violence is part of the human psyche. Dictators and id10ts have been killing years before electricity. There were murders far before indoor plumbing. Hence, sure we have video games and killing, but murder and criminals have been around since dirt. If video games made you violent, I'd be the most violent mofo out there (I've played hundreds of hours of Rainbow 6:Las Vegas in just the last couple months). My dad brought me up with guns and I was a marksman in the Boy Scouts before I even hit my teens.

So the easy crackpot would think: He's gonna be violent and have guns. I'm 37 and I've never even been in a fist fight. I don't own any pistols or rifles (shotgun I have was only for self defense when I drove through the Yukon in Canada by myself...didn't want to be bear-bait).

KISS World Tour (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18816627)

In other news, KISS announce a new world tour to capitalize on their fortune of being a popular youth activity. (Sales of no-doze, viagra and depends likely to increase)

My Sarcastic, perhaps unappropiate, comment... (1)

Tatisimo (1061320) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816707)

Meanwhile, animal rights activist blame Pokemon for animal hoarding and dog fights.

NO (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816739)

Politicians and grand standers will jump right up and blame us, sitting and taking it is a luxury we don't have.

Pointing fingers.. (1)

Mockylock (1087585) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816785)

Everyone's quick to point fingers at guns, games and everything else.. though he proved in court that he was mentally unstable.

I guess this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disa ster
Watched too many Charlie Chapman movies involving dynamite.

It doesn't matter if there aren't violent games, cartoons, movies or guns.. Crazy people will find some way to make themselves famous. How many serial killers have there been in history? How many tyrants? There are going to be lunatics no matter where you go, and until you chain each person down.. put them in a padded room then feed them with a straw, you'll have violence.

Guns make it easier.. and honestly, they're a bit too easy to get a hold of. I think that they should at least be as hard to get as pharmaceutical drugs. I own over 20 of them, and I still feel there should be extra measures taken.

It's all entertainment! (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816805)

The Texas Chainsaw massacre was also a real event. Later it was the subject of popular movies and other well-sold stories. Should there be a video game built around this? Sure! Why not? Play the part of the fleeing student. Play the part of a SWAT officer. Play the part of the crazed assailant. Why should anyone miss the opportunity to make millions from real-life events. Do we ALWAYS have to cry about wasted life and all that? If we were really concerned, why aren't we complaining as loud about the world being pulled into a war started by the U.S. over claims that were proven to be false to begin with?

I am utterly convinced that there's nothing in our culture in the past, present or forseeable future that will turn any large group of people into maniacal killers. There will ALWAYS be the odd-balls out there who are, for whatever reason, unable to contain their impulses to do harm to others. If only there was a way to screen those people... perhaps there might be. Perhaps even videogames themselves could be the very filter we need. Imagine hooking up people to a simulation and letting them play for a while to see what they do. You know, like one of those personality tests but in a 3D virtual world.

(Yes, too many other implications after that... like what if insurance companies were able to obtain profiles from this type of exercise and all that. So even if there were some way to screen these people out, would we want to? Should we?)

No. I think the over-all impact these people have on society is statistically negligible. Statistically, we die way more on the freeways and we sure as hell aren't banning games about driving and racing and we're certainly not doing much in the way of making the roads safer. (We are making cars more expensive though.)

People are too distracted with these relatively petty incidents to see the bigger picture. Yes. Those directly affected should be able to mourn, complain and seek retribution and all that. But this is no cause for the whole world to take a side on the issue or use this incident to make an issue. It's an incident. It's not an issue. I think too many people are jumping too far on their "Jump to conclusion mats."

fucking republicans! (1, Insightful)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816821)

Man I hate those republican neo-cons. Just look at what that right wing blow hard Rush has to say [kotaku.com]

read it if you can. this is something that will make so many on slashdot's blood boil. how dare he. Heck i can understand why the submitter to slashdot would submit every other article from kotaku but this one. Stuff like this should not see the light of day. The ideas he presents is so outrageous and ignorant.

Compare this to the response of a progressive like Ny Gov Eliot Spitzer [gamepolitics.com] . This my friends is why i support progressives. Hillary 08!

CALLER: What I really think is an issue is video violence, video gaming. I will guarantee you, I'll bet my last dollar in my pocket, that this shooter will be found to have been a compulsive video gamer, and when people are living that kind of lifestyle -- and college students do this a lot.

RUSH: (sigh) Let's say you're right. Not every video gamer goes out and murders 33 people on the college campus though. There's more to this than that. We can find all kinds of societal problems and ills, but the fact of the matter is that whatever you would look at as a bad influence -- video games as you mentioned -- it may desensitize people, but it doesn't turn everybody into mass murderers.

I know it's natural that everybody wants to throw their theories into this, and perhaps come up with perhaps a unique explanation or to understand, and I think it's natural, because people have a tough time accepting a relatively simple explanation for something of this scale. But how many people are playing video games out there? How many millions of people play video games, and how many millions of people have guns?

If you start blaming the video games, you may as well demand video game control because it's the same thing when you start trying to blame guns for this. You have here a sick individual, an evil individual who committed a random act. But if you want to start blaming the video games, this guy was this or that, weeeeell, then you've gotta maybe talk about banning them because that's the same tack that's taken with guns. You got one guy who used a gun that's it. You're falling prey to the same way the Drive-Bys propagandize, and that's, "Well, we need gun control! We gotta get guns out of the hands of people."


Fred Phelps (1)

pclminion (145572) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816875)

Fred Phelps and his crew of assholes are planning to protest at the funeral of one of the slain students. How much do people want to bet he finally gets shot this time?

What news reports said Cho was a Gamer ? (1)

brufar (926802) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816929)

I'm thinking I must have missed something along the way. I have not seen a news report that said Cho was a gamer and played 'violent' video games.. So how can these video games, that as far as I can tell he didn't even play, supposed to have caused the rampage of this lunatic ?

taking away the means for the public to defend themselves doesn't solve the problem of some wacko wanting to hurt people for no apparent reason.

Preventable (1)

NutMan (614868) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816949)

This is something to consider... When you purchase an over-the counter gun in the U.S., you are required to fill out Form 4473 [atf.gov] . Question 12 f asks,

"Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"
All the purchaser has to do is answer "no". If they answer "yes", they will not be permitted to purchase the gun.

Next an instant background check is made, however, only the purchaser's criminal record is checked. In the U.S., due to privacy laws, their mental competancy, (or lack thereof) is not checked. We are basically relying on the purchaser to understand their mental state, and to tell the truth about it. Talk about crazy!!!

What's next to blame? (1)

vbNullString (822539) | more than 7 years ago | (#18816987)

It's a totally bullshit that game was the cause of massacre. Why not talk about gun control? Why not talk about how he may have been treated? What was police doing during the two hours? Well, truth hurts, people. Violent games and Marilyn Manson are the easiest target to shift the blame, and I'm quite sick of it.
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  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>