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QuickTime .MOV + Toshiba + Vista = BSOD

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the puzzler dept.

Bug 392

Question Guy writes "Apple QuickTime is involved in a troubling problem that doesn't seem to be addressed by any of the major software and hardware manufacturers involved. On Toshiba machines, such as the Protege Tablet M400s, with Windows Vista installed, opening a locally stored QuickTime .MOV causes instant bluescreen. All other video functions seem to be working in other video playback types — even streaming .MOVs work — and there is little to no 'buzz' on the Net that might push any of the parties to investigate or to play nice together (Microsoft for Vista, Intel for the GMA945 chipset, Toshiba for their custom tablet software, Apple for QuickTime). Help, anyone?"

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Defective by design (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18834765)

An appropriate title for both Vista and Quicktime!

I think you answered your question already. (4, Interesting)

HowIsMyDriving? (142335) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834841)

In your question you stated that the Toshiba laptop runs custom tablet software. If all other configurations of Vista, the Intel Chipset, Quicktime, and other variables work fine, you have just eliminated them as possibilities but the Tablet software. More than likely there is some call within the tablet software doing with the display that interacts when a Mov. is trying to be played locally, which causes conflict. Also, why is this Slashdot worthy?

Re:I think you answered your question already. (5, Informative)

taoman1 (1050536) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835105)

TFA concludes by blaming it on Apple. I'm no Apple fanboy, but I don't see that at all. Unless I am misreading TFA, everything worked fine until the patches and updates were installed. I would suggest those are the problem. If they were Tablet updates, that's where the blame lies. If they were Vista updates, then the problem is there. And i agree, this is a support call, not news on /.

Re:I think you answered your question already. (4, Funny)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835143)

Also, why is this Slashdot worthy?

Anything is.

Title error... (5, Funny)

Khaed (544779) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834769)

Vista = BSOD

There, fixed the title for you. :)

Re:Title error... (-1, Flamebait)

Basehart (633304) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834813)

It's not Apple's problem, and MSFT will be in no hurry to release a patch to allow you to play a rivals filetype, so I'd suggest you export it as a wmv or dump the POS and get a Mac.

Re:Title error... (4, Insightful)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834823)

What would be the Mac equivalent to a Tablet PC?

Re:Title error... (1)

Basehart (633304) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834847)

It hasn't been released yet, so they might have to wait on the dumping the POS bit :-)

Axiotron ModBook (4, Informative)

mr_zorg (259994) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834945)

Nothing from Apple yet, but you can always checkout the Axiotron ModBook [axiotron.com] ... Sounds interesting.

Re:Title error... (1, Offtopic)

Tickletaint (1088359) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834953)

The iPhone.

Re:Title error... (2, Interesting)

Tickletaint (1088359) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835027)

Sorry, how was that offtopic? To elaborate, Apple's answer to the tablet PC would have to be considered an upscaled iPhone, retaining a hi-res display and all the essential features of OS X, including most importantly Inkwell and multitouch.

If you're particularly literal-minded and you think Apple's answer to the tablet PC would be, as in the PC world, a desktop computer crammed into slab format, then yeah, Apple wouldn't do that. Fortunately.

Re:Title error... (3, Insightful)

WhiteWolf666 (145211) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835165)

And the iPhone, on which you _cannot_ install software, and which has limited data connectivity options is equivalent to a full blow Tablet PC how?

I'm an Apple fan, but come on.

Re:Title error... (1)

CellBlock (856082) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835185)

A desktop crammed into a slab, no, but an iBook, a PowerBook, or a MacBook with a swiveling screen are probably well within their capabilities.

Re:Title error... (1)

marcello_dl (667940) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835007)

...so I'd suggest you export it as a wmv...

hmmmm, a nice thing on slashdot is that if you suggested to set up a streaming server and stream .movs from localhost, instead, you'd be taken seriously. don't miss the opportunity.

Re:Title error... (2, Insightful)

Giometrix (932993) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835207)

"It's not Apple's problem, and MSFT will be in no hurry to release a patch to allow you to play a rivals filetype, so I'd suggest you export it as a wmv or dump the POS and get a Mac."

Let me get this straight, there's a strong possibility that the issue is being caused by Apple software and you're telling him that he needs to dump his PC and buy a computer made by the manufacturer of that software?

Re:Title error... (2, Insightful)

mgv (198488) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835051)

Vista = BSOD

There, fixed the title for you. :)


Would it not read more like:

"A carefully crafted executable, under certain conditions may cause a denial of service attack"

Its not that quicktime crashes - that's apples fault. Its that the operating system goes down - definitely Microsoft's fault and problem. Although I presume its at least part hardware driver given the machine specific nature.

After all these years, it shouldn't be that easy to do. Vista was supposed to be the most secure operating system yet. Or so I recall.

Michael

Re:Title error... (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835149)

Hmm, isn't it:
VISTA = Viruses, Insecurity, Spamware, Trojans & Adware?

Re:Title error... (-1, Offtopic)

TizTheDavid (1091757) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835171)

Want to view SlashDot at work or school? Try UnblockTheBlocked. http://www.unblocktheblocked.com/ [unblocktheblocked.com]

VLC (2, Informative)

DrYak (748999) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834781)

You may try with VLC media player [videolan.org] .
Works very well with tons of formats.
Uses its own codecs.
Free and open source.
Available for Windows (and also Mac OS X and Linux).

Parent is right ! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18834831)

No really, VLC is great, even under windows.

except the format in question... (2, Insightful)

sentientbrendan (316150) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834859)

>You may try with VLC media player.
>Works very well with tons of formats.

except the format in question... VLC can't play most modern quicktime movies.

The real issue here is a bad driver, which could be anyone's fault *but* quicktime's. That said, for most purposes VLC or mediaplayer classic is a better player on windows than quicktime.

Re:except the format in question... (-1)

prelelat (201821) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834935)

How could it be anybodys fault except quicktime? The problem doesn't seem to plague anything but quicktime. Maybe quicktime isn't doing something its suppose to and the driver doesn't account for it because its not suppose to be done. Maybe quicktime just has an issue somewhere that it hasn't accounted for that is associated with that chipset. If you ask me it sounds like the most likely cause is quicktime, as nothing else seems to do it.

Re:except the format in question... (2, Insightful)

l_bratch (865693) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835139)

A normal program running with normal user privileges should not be able to crash a system. If it does (like in this case), then it must be a hardware/kernel/driver defect.

Re:except the format in question... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18835237)

>Works very well with tons of formats.

except the format in question... VLC can't play most modern quicktime movies.

The real issue here is a bad driver


No, the real issue is that vendors such as Apple capriciously push proprietary media codecs. "Someone's secret code doesn't work well with someone else's secret code!" Well, duh. No tears here.

Re:except the format in question... (2, Informative)

Goaway (82658) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835257)

Welcome out of the nineties.

MPEG-4 is Quicktime. It doesn't get much more standardized than that.

Re:VLC (1, Informative)

gsfprez (27403) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834913)

i had massive BSOD problems trying to use VLC in Vista. YMMV.

I don't see on the VLC page that VLC is compatible with vista - is there something i'm missing?

Re:VLC (0, Flamebait)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834947)

i had massive BSOD problems trying to use VLC in Vista. YMMV.

I don't see on the VLC page that VLC is compatible with vista - is there something i'm missing?


the part where you, being a slashdot user, logically realize vista was not ready for public release, then revert back to windows xp?

Re:VLC (3, Insightful)

wellingj (1030460) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835189)

I think you are missing the point.... not much *IS* compatible with Vista.
wow... what a role reversal with Linux...
next thing you know my dad is going to make me cookies and my mom will make me build a fence...

Re:VLC (1)

renegadesx (977007) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834933)

Xine with all the right codecs for me is still the best media player around

Multiple front ends: Xine-UI, Totem, Kaffeine, gXine etc
Support for any format avaliable (wmv, qt, h.264, divx, xvid)
Doesnt crash itself OR the OS
Plays DVD's
Look hard enough you can also get Windows and OSX versions as well

Re:VLC (1)

taoman1 (1050536) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835205)

TFA article says that VLC works fine.

BSOD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18834783)

So the BSOD is back?
I heard there actually isn't one in Vista.

Re:BSOD (1)

notanatheist (581086) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835199)

You heard wrong. There is supposed to be a "Red Screen of Death" too which is for more 'critical' errors. As if a BSOD wasn't bad enough?! I've seen quite a few Vista BSODs already. Spysweeper is good at crashing Vista for one.

Is the original poster's problem isolated or repeatable across machines? I'd hate to think a corrupt MOV is causing the issue but some n00b is crying to the Slashdot crowd because he doesn't know how to format the damn drive and install linux.

never gets old (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18834789)

Help, anyone?

You can find a patch for this problem here [ubuntu.com] .

Sounds like User Error? (4, Insightful)

Rosyna (80334) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834791)

It says "playing a .MOV file". A .mov (MooV) file is a container format for codecs. iTunes doesn't use a "QuickTime Player" it uses QuickTime.

It almost sounds like a particular driver or something is crashing when trying to do hardware acceleration of a particular codec (like H.264). The author seems like they're shooting bullets of blame in a wild and uncontrollable manner.

Re:Sounds like User Error? (1)

MasamuneXGP (824006) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835003)

Seconded. This is just more undeserved Vista-bashing. This isn't Windows 98; software that doesn't involve hardware drivers just don't cause BSODs anymore. Likely this is a specific codec trying to install some sort of wacky driver to get hardware acceleration.

Re:Sounds like User Error? (2, Insightful)

manekineko2 (1052430) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835169)

Is this seriously a request for tech support from a single user being reported as if its news? This is really a brave new world of MS bashing.

Maybe there is no "buzz" for this issue because it is limited to only this user? Or even if it affects that entire line of computers, maybe its simply the fact that Toshiba shipped shitty video drivers that crash the system on video overlay or something.

Congratulations (0, Troll)

arodland (127775) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834803)

You've managed to misspell the name of your own laptop.

Re:Congratulations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18834937)

You've managed to misspell the name of your own laptop.
Yes, yes, it's a Portege, not a Protege... whatever. Get over it.

So, if you're going to pull the spelling-nazi thing:
The proper nomenclature is notebook. And that model isn't even a notebook; it's a tablet! There's a difference. Don't make corrections unless you're going to be spotless on your assumptions.

Re:Congratulations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18835101)

The proper nomenclature is notebook.
Bullshit.
 

And that model isn't even a notebook; it's a tablet!
A tablet is a laptop with a touchscreen. Nothing more.

Probably Vista (4, Insightful)

slughead (592713) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834807)

The fact that it crashed was probably Apple's "bad", but the fact that it resulted in a BSOD is obviously Vista.

Maybe this has to do with the added layer of complexity (presumably for DRM) between the kernel and video-utilizing programs... or is that just for DirectX programs?

Re:Probably Vista (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18834839)

An operating system can only be as working as the hardware it's running on. It could be something funky that Toshiba's doing, though you're right, it should never be possible for an application to BSOD.

Re:Probably Vista (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835021)

The fact that it crashed was probably Apple's "bad", but the fact that it resulted in a BSOD is obviously Vista.

Don't be so certain. Anyone in the kernel space can cause BSOD. Which means it may be any of the kernel mode drivers Toshiba loaded their tablet with.

The Windows version of Apple's software is quite poorly written, but I wouldn't blame it, unless they install kernel drivers (for virtual devices, and for iPod presumably). I doubt it's the case but you never know. User space software can NOT cause a BSOD, end of story.

The goal of a kernel mode driver is to have raw access to the hardware. As such, the OS can't limit the damage to a given process or ensure integrity after a critical situation. The BSOD is in fact happening to protect from any (or at least further) data corruption and loss. If Vista would be "nice" and just keep on running after a kernel mode driver screwed up badly, you may not be able to even boot next time.

Re:Probably Vista (2, Funny)

LighterShadeOfBlack (1011407) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835067)

The fact that it crashed was probably Apple's "bad", but the fact that it resulted in a BSOD is obviously Vista.

Maybe this has to do with the added layer of complexity (presumably for DRM) between the kernel and video-utilizing programs... or is that just for DirectX programs?
Or maybe it's sunspots or mobile phones. Or maybe it's a deliberate Microsoft plot to make Apple look bad.

I know, let's randomly speculate some more.

Re:Probably Vista (1)

Quantam (870027) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835111)

Any crash in kernel mode (e.g. access violation) = BSOD. There are also a wide variety of other things that cause BSODs (like calling a function that is likely to take a long time while at hardware realtime priority, which would cause a complete system stall), but that's probably what this is. I believe there are some ways to catch things like access violations and recover before a BSOD is thrown (this works just like C++ try/catch pairs), but it requires the coder of the driver causing the access violation to wrap potentially dangerous accesses in that.

My list of suspects, from most probable to least:
1. Toshiba video driver bug
2. Vista kernel bug
3. The video codec. Note, however, that this is assuming the codec is running in user mode (things in user mode can only cause BSODs if the kernel or a driver uses some invalid data passed through a system call without verifying it - major security hole), which I don't know for sure (I've never done multimedia programming). If this is actually running in kernel mode, I'd move it at the top of the list.

Say what? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18834815)

Why is a story about a guys computer crashing on here?

If it was a problem with a specific model, I could understand it, but it's just one guy!!!

Has apple updated QT yet? (4, Insightful)

peragrin (659227) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834817)

last I knew apple hadn't updated quicktime or itunes, for Vista. So people are running into problems with a heavily drm'd OS not properly running applications that weren't designed to run on it.

should i be surprised?

Quicktime unstable (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834833)

I get firefox crashing hard if I view any of the mac vs pc videos on their home page.
Other quicktime movies work fine.

It might be Jobs' way of showing me how crap life is on pcs.

Re:Quicktime unstable (1)

GFree (853379) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834851)

PCs? Or "Windows"? Be specific son!

Re:Quicktime unstable (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835079)

I get firefox crashing hard if I view any of the mac vs pc videos on their home page. It might be Jobs' way of showing me how crap life is on pcs.

I've used to experience quicktime crashes in Firefox as well, on certain QT versions (I think the latest is better).

I'm afraid the only thing Jobs is showing you, is his Windows team of programmers aren't quite good. If I didn't know better, it would make me think OSX and Macs are total crap, but in fact QuickTime on OSX is running just fine.

Try MPlayer (1)

omnirealm (244599) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834837)

You might have more luck with MPlayer than you are currently having with the proprietary player.

http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/dload.html [mplayerhq.hu]

Re:Try MPlayer (1)

SplatMan_DK (1035528) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835033)

Ahemm, isn't MPlayer relying entirely on 3rd party codecs and thereby just as "proprietary"? - Jesper

Re:Try MPlayer (1)

alphamugwump (918799) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835103)

I'll second this. I've always had pretty good luck with MPlayer, even on windows. The UI takes some getting used to (it is keyboard only), but once you learn it, you'll never want anything else. In comparison, WMP, QuickTime, and PowerDVD seem bloated and buggy as hell.

For example, I've tried to play movies on WMV (for which it did not have the codec) and locked up the computer. Which should definitely not happen. Quicktime, hooks its tray icon into your registry, tries to update itself over the internet, and generally makes an ass of itself. And of course, PowerDVD will make you watch those previews at the beginning of the DVD. It will also show you the DVD menus, which I hate.

VLC is good for playing corrupted movies, and it handles multiple audio tracks a little better than MPlayer, but it is also pretty bloated.

Certainly not Apple's fault (5, Insightful)

evilviper (135110) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834849)

From TFA:

or the problem could in fact be Apple's for something in the QuickTime code that's at fault.

No, it couldn't... If you're running as an unprivileged user, the software you run shouldn't possibly be able to crash your OS.

Drivers can, and bugs in the OS can. User-run programs can only (accidentally) trigger one of those... in which case, that's a DoS exploit in the system.

Re:Certainly not Apple's fault (1)

bhalter80 (916317) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834967)

You sideswipe an interesting subject here. What every happened to Vista forcing users to have unprivleged accounts? I use it and as the first installed user I seem to have had them from day 1 and since I turned off UAC I don't get harassed every minute by it telling me that I may somehow be putting my PC at risk. So indeed what about those LUAs?

Re:Certainly not Apple's fault (1, Interesting)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834973)

Or Apple's Quicktime software, like many other badly-written windows apps with something to hide, is using a device driver to do its dirty work.

Re:Certainly not Apple's fault (2, Informative)

Animats (122034) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835035)

Drivers can, and bugs in the OS can. User-run programs can only (accidentally) trigger one of those...

If only. The way Microsoft does DRM [microsoft.com] , much of audio and video processing takes place in kernel space.

Re:Certainly not Apple's fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18835081)

Drivers can, and bugs in the OS can. User-run programs can only (accidentally) trigger one of those... in which case, that's a DoS exploit in the system.

Well, since this problem is only reported on a certain type of laptop, I bet it's a bug in the audio/video drivers of that laptop.

Not surprising (0, Troll)

dfoulger (1044592) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834857)

What you are seeing lies at the bullseye of the primary reason why I don't intend to ever install Vista. I don't know that the problem stems from this, but this problem has digital rights management (DRM) written all over it. Windows devices are supposed to degrade (by Microsoft specification that Toshiba has surely designed to) when they detect allegedly (by some measure) "illegal" content (e.g. content that should be DRM protected and isn't). Who knows what difficult interactions are built into the "decision" (made by the operating system and enforced in hardware) to give you a blue screen when you play your locally stored MOV files in Quicktime, but the problem is almost certainly in Vista's DRM code rather than Quicktime.

The best solution, I would guess, is to replace your Vista installation with something that isn't designed to fail. XP is a reasonable solution if you can get it. Ubuntu Linux is probably the next best option.

If you do replace Vista, be sure to go back to Toshiba and ask for a refund on the operating system.

This has been discussed on Slashdot before. It may be worthwhile to find and read older related articles.

FUD (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18835075)

Windows devices are supposed to degrade (by Microsoft specification that Toshiba has surely designed to) when they detect allegedly (by some measure) "illegal" content (e.g. content that should be DRM protected and isn't)

False. Your post is FUD. Vista doesn't do shit to anything without DRM. It doesn't add DRM, "detect" that something should have DRM, or anything of that sort. If a file already has DRM attached, it supports certain measures demanded by the content owners. That's it. This whole "Vista DRM infests my non-DRM'd files!" BS has gotten old by now. Let it go.

this problem has digital rights management (DRM) written all over it

Do you know anything about systems? Nothing here sounds like DRM, it sounds like a shitty driver for this Toshiba model being hounded by QuickTime in a specific way. It very well could be an Apple hack to get their stuff working (they don't always make the cleanest Windows code, you know).

Re:FUD (1)

wellingj (1030460) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835251)

It very well could be an Microsoft hack to get their stuff working (they don't always make the cleanest Windows code, you know).

Fixed!

Re:Not surprising (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835117)

What you are seeing lies at the bullseye of the primary reason why I don't intend to ever install Vista

Riight, riight.. You remind me of myself. A proud DOS user, I'd never install them newfangled Win 3.11 softwarez.

An year later, a proud Windows 3.11 users, I'd never install them newfangled Windows 95 softwarez.

I'm writing this from Windows XP btw. I'll never install them newfangled Vista softwarez.

Re:Not surprising (1)

jmpeax (936370) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835119)

How does Vista's DRM stretch to Apple's proprietary player? In codecs? I thought the Vista DRM issues were to do with HD hardware? I'm confused. Also, surely if this was some DRM poking its nose in, this would be an issue on other Vista (non-Toshiba) systems?

Seams Im not alone. (4, Informative)

IconKing (738117) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834861)

I got a Toshiba Protege M400 about a mont ago. And I have had this problem consitantly. Since I watch alot of Video Podcast using iTunes. I have searched the web for solutions to tis problem and have gotten noware. Hopefully now that it made slashdot somthing will get done about it.

Re:Seams Im not alone. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18834959)


I guess that new laptop never came with a spell checker

No shock - Vista's #1 goal is DRM. Not usability. (5, Interesting)

gsfprez (27403) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834889)

I installed Vista on my MacPro - in 12 minutes, i had a successfully BSOD'd Vista by playing a standard DiVX 6.0 file on Vista. (yesssss... i installed the drivers for everything)

I think (i do not know - so back off, i'm guessing) that there is some kind of problem with Vista and video... at least, i'm seeing a trend.

Considering the amount of work Microsoft put into preventing people from playing (assumedly pirated) video, I don't think its much of a strech to believe that its much harder for developers to make video playback software. I know that i read a very long article that talked about video card compliance and every 30ms being polled by the OS or some such bullshit, but i don't recall the link. But it was quite long, very extensive, and seemed to me that Vista's goal was not to provide a system which would foster video content creation - but rather, just the opposite.

its rather sad, actually. Microsoft/Adobe and MS/AVID had the makings of at least pitiful competition for Apple/Apple & Apple/Avid... (Apple/Adobe? Yeah, not so much any more after NAB). I actually LIKE competition, because it means that Apple and their developers actually have to work to make better products.

With all of the pain that's obivously involved with working HD video (which inclueds VIEWING IT) on Vista, there won't be much competition. If Vista is a shitty at video work as its looking to be, i suspect that Apple will be able to kick back on the beach with a mai-tai and not have to evern try... i mean, HD playback is 100% zero effort (assuming you aren't trying to do it on a PowerBook 520c) in Mac OS X - there's no DRM invovled whatsoever (except for BR and HDDVDs).... and the video cards Just Work(TM), and Quicktime just works, and VLC just works and DIVX just works.... etc.

sucks to have your workflow based upon a product that is EOL in 7 months (Windows XP + ___________). Personally, i don't care. I've long stopped caring about the abuse people that use Windows for video work put themselves thru... sure, Windows did some things faster back in the day, but all of that is totally gone now, isn't it?

Now, its all about the OS.

Re:No shock - Vista's #1 goal is DRM. Not usabilit (1)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834971)

The BSoD is being caused by a driver, most likely the video one. Userspace applications cannot cause Windows to bluescreen, not since NT4 was released in the mid-90s. An application might be the vector for the fault, but it's not the ultimate cause.

VideoLAN works fine on Vista with just about any format I've tried, which includes older MOVs and Real videos. So does MediaPlayer Classic and the YouTube-style streaming Flash video.

This has nothing to do with "DRM", and seriously, Apple software for Windows has always sucked rocks. But I'm sure that if you're masochistic enough to use QuickTime on a PC if you get a good video driver your problems should be solved.

oh i beg to differ.. (3, Interesting)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835041)

Apple software for Windows has always sucked rocks


back in the day (circa 2002) i was working with a cruddy old machine and wanted to watch some divx on it.. but wmp kept stuttering.. so i installed quicktime and used it.. it used 20% less resources and its dependability was the first of many factors which got me to switch to mac.

that said, quicktime 7 was a major step down from 6.x because they broke the caching (making it stutter even on osX), but that has nothing to do with the platform it runs on.

Re:No shock - Vista's #1 goal is DRM. Not usabilit (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835069)

Actually not since NT3, which had it's video drivers in userspace too (thus a video driver was far less likely to crash the system)... NT4 moved them to kernel space, and was far more crash prone.

Vista was also supposed to move the video drivers back to userspace for stability reasons, are you saying this was yet another feature that got canned from the final release?

Re:No shock - Vista's #1 goal is DRM. Not usabilit (5, Interesting)

robbiethefett (1047640) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834995)

i have a small home-based audio recording studio, and i'm becoming more involved in the whole computer music scene. from what i gather, quite a large number of studios have decided to switch entirely to Mac for production environments. i guess vista stepped on so many toes that a lot of shops that run XP have been migrating to Macs and plan to be exclusively apple shops, even before XP's end of life. for some reason, professionals seem to be pissed off that MS wants to control what they do with their own data.. can't imagine why.

Re:No shock - Vista's #1 goal is DRM. Not usabilit (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834997)

and Quicktime just works, and VLC just works and DIVX just works.... etc


what's really sad now is.. since the summer of code recently.. mplayer and vlc now playback wmv9 (vc1) better than wmp (on all platforms), including (in fact especially) HD.

article (Vista - longest suicide note in history): (5, Informative)

toby (759) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835239)

I know that i read a very long article that talked about video card compliance and every 30ms being polled by the OS or some such bullshit

The article you probably mean is Peter Gutmann's A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection [auckland.ac.nz] , which memorably coined the phrase,

The Vista Content Protection specification could very well constitute the longest suicide note in history


At least, we can hope.

kind of rediculous (5, Informative)

sentientbrendan (316150) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834907)

that he blames quicktime for a BSOD...

Nothing but a bad driver, bad hardware, or a *bad kernel* can cause a BSOD (read kernel panic). It doesn't matter that other movie players don't cause it. If the driver's and kernel didn't have a bug, it would be impossible for *any* userspace application, quicktime or otherwise, to cause a kernel panic.

Quicktime isn't the greatest movie player ever... but it couldn't possibly be at the root of this problem. It is clearly simply exposing an underlying problem.

Re:kind of rediculous (1)

BrianPan (786919) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835055)

Where does he blame only Quicktime? He says it's involved in a problem, which it is. Quicktime *plus* Toshiba *plus* Vista.

That would be .. in the article (1, Informative)

Space cowboy (13680) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835247)

The bit at the bottom that says:

Blaming Apple
I'd say both, but I place the blame more on Apple, the author of the offending application.


Simon.

Greeniculous! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18835269)

Blueiculous! Yellowiculous!

Recent QuickTime updates the cause? (2, Informative)

Aphrika (756248) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834911)

I must say that I've seen a spate of strange crashes and stuff with the last few point updates to QuickTime on both Macs and PCs. The last update solved a few of them, but in my current line of work (which is IT sysadmin for a media company with 200+ machines) QuickTime functioning properly is vital to business.

First port of call would be QuickTime itself. As there are 'known issues' with iTunes and Vista, and we know that QuickTime and iTunes integrate pretty closely, I'd uninstall the iTunes/Quicktime install and try installing just the standalone player. There could be iTunes hooks into QuickTime that might be breaking something. It also makes sure you've got the most recent QuickTime install.

This has fixed a few of the problems I've seen over the past few months.

Secondly, I'd try a variety of different .mov files. There's a chance it could be an issue with your machine and specific encoding method that certain types of .mov files use. Thirdly, I'd try some other media files in it, like mp4 video or H.264. These can also be played back in other players and success or failure would point you in the direction of whether it's QuickTime or something deeper - such as a graphics driver - at fault.

Thirdly, I'd think back and ask yourself if you've seen any other odd graphic behaviour on your PC recently. That might indicate a driver issue. Make usre in cases like this that you're using the manufacturer approved drivers.

Fourthly, I'd look at downloading Microsoft's Application Compatibility Tools and seeing whether there's anything on your machine that doesn't run under Vista. Specifically look out for items with a graphical angle such as screen managers etc.

Re:Recent QuickTime updates the cause? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18835025)

"I must say that I've seen a spate of strange crashes and stuff with the last few point updates to QuickTime on both Macs and PCs."
That's odd... I use quicktime all the time on my mac and haven't seen it crash or act funny in close to a year. before that is was usually because I had added codecs that hadn't come with it, and with the most recent versions those issues even seem to go away. Beyond that it has NEVER caused a kernel panic on my mac!

I'd say that if it is a WINDOWS error screen you are seeing it is a WINDOWS problem you are dealing with.

Let me try and make this clear: use a stable operating system or stop complaining.

There are tons to choose from (hint: they either have the word "linux" in their name somewhere, or they try and hide it like OSX)

process of elimination (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18834919)

Do any Quicktime.mov crash every single toshiba portable?
Does running a quicktime mov in any other computer using Vista crash the system?
Does Vista crash when any Quicktime mov file is played on any other computer?
Does it happen on a specific mov file or any file?

Suggestions (2, Interesting)

nagashi (684628) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834943)

Install Quicktime Alternative (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/QuickTime_Alt ernative.htm)

Then try using media player classic to open the file. Quicktime alternative is a freeware quicktime codec, and will let you watch quicktime movies in an application of your choice. See also: http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Real_Alternati ve.htm [free-codecs.com]

There is no need to be tied to realplayer or quicktime on windows.

Fixed link. (1)

Civil_Disobedient (261825) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835203)

The link you gave is to the Real Alternative, (which is great, btw, but not exactly useful in this situation). There are two versions of the Quicktime Alternative software, linked to here [intercom.net] . Version 1.52 is for Quicktime 6, and supports older Microsoft OS's, the other is 1.63 which is based on Quicktime 7, but only works on NT5+ kernels (W2k, XP, Vista).

Sorry, missed link. (1)

Civil_Disobedient (261825) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835229)

Sorry, I missed the Quicktime Alternative link in your original thread (wasn't link-ified).

I guess this is it (0, Flamebait)

MonkeyOfRage (779297) | more than 7 years ago | (#18834951)

The end of the line. Slashdot has devolved into a tech support forum.

A bug? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18834987)

The instant blue screen is a vista feature to prevent watching unlicensed content on the tablet.

Geez, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18834993)

what exactly is the probability for all those obscure events to happen at the same time!?

A puzzler indeed (5, Funny)

BrianPan (786919) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835011)

> from the puzzler dept.

The part that's puzzling is why we need to summon all the readers of the Slashdot front page to fix this guy's laptop.

BS o' D? (3, Funny)

NJVil (154697) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835031)

It's a new Vista feature reminding you to switch to Windows Media Player.

All of our work machines have this problem... (3, Interesting)

robson (60067) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835039)

...and we run Windows XP, not Vista.

Any attempt to watch a Quicktime file from a local drive results in problems (usually an instant bluescreen, but sometimes general breakage -- taskbar not responding, apps not closing when ordered, menus not responding, that sort of thing).

Viewing a movie that exists elsewhere on the network is fine. Viewing a movie from the Internet still breaks things, presumably because it's still getting cached to the local drive.

They're not brand-name computers, but they were all put together by the same place, presumably with similar specs. Nobody's dug into it too deeply, we've just gotten used to moving all *.mov files to a network drive before viewing. :)

How is this possible? (1)

Stormx2 (1003260) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835071)

I thought the whole fact that you run as non-root under vista made this impossible? User applications should never crash the whole OS should they? o.O I don't think I could do this in ubuntu if I tried. Please, correct me if I'm wrong...

Re:How is this possible? (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835253)

I think it depends a great deal on how hard you tried. If you compiled a MaybeCrash module into your kernel and then wrote an application that took advantage of its services to occasionally try and crash your system, I imagine you would succeed. That linux culture discourages putting such things into the kernel just to be able to play a video formats is probably a good thing.

RALink Chipset + Ubuntu + Network Manager= Nothing (3, Insightful)

LighterShadeOfBlack (1011407) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835109)

So my wireless USB dongle stopped working when I upgraded to Ubuntu 7.04. It seems Network Manager doesn't like the rt73usb driver, or just about any RALink driver judging by the Ubuntu Forums. Help, anyone?

What, you mean /. isn't the place to post bug reports? Could've fooled me...

Should be pretty easy (4, Funny)

overshoot (39700) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835123)

With enough eyes and all that.

Someone post the source code to the OS, drivers, and player and we'll have a look.

Oh, wait ...

Hey noobs... this is easy to figure out (1)

Foredecker (161844) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835129)

Don't guess.... this isn't hard to figure out. Hook up the kernel debugger and find the faulting component. If you don't do that you are just guessing. This is what any decent developer would do.

Hello Slashdot tech support? (1)

HockeyPuck (141947) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835147)

Ok,

So why haven't you a) called Toshiba, b) called Microsoft? When did slashdot become "I can't figure out the problem, i've searched all the forums and I'm completely out of ideas of who to turn to, so what shall I do? I know I'll call a linux/unix news website"?

BSOD so easily? (0, Redundant)

LinuxInDallas (73952) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835167)

I'm no Vista expert (obviously) but I find it odd that applications can apparently can easily cause a BSOD on Vista. I mean you would think that nothing short of a crash of the core OS would cause a BSOD.

Quicktime also locks up.. (1)

inotocracy (762166) | more than 7 years ago | (#18835197)

..Vista if you attempt to open the popup menu using right click when the video is embedded into Firefox (at least on the machines I've worked on). All have Nvidia based video cards, not sure if its related or not. It completely locks the system. Very very annoying.

The Lotus effect (3, Funny)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835201)

Vista ain't done, till QuickTime won't run.

I have QuicktTime .MOV + Toshiba + Vista != BSOD (1)

arhhook (995275) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835213)

I have Vista and QuickTime on a Toshiba M400 and have not had a BSOD from trying to play a .mov file. Check for updates? Try with laptop in tablet mode? Make sure you have all your drivers? Check the error numbers and trace where the BSOD is actually coming from.

Apple viruses (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#18835245)

All Apple softwares for windows are effectively viruses. This has been the case for many years now, it has nothing to do with Vista and everything to do with Apple's long time policy of guerrilla marketing. I refuse all apple formats on principle when using a windows installation.

And before you start freaking on me, QNX and FreeBSD are my favorite operating systems. Yes, Windows sucks, but MacOS sucks harder. Microsoft does not actively sabotage MacOS installations, Apple however has been sabotaging windows installations around the world for many years now. (Not as badly as Norton, but still pretty crippling.)

Get a Mac (1, Flamebait)

olliec420 (1023207) | more than 6 years ago | (#18835261)

Get a Mac, there all problems solved.
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