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Is Windows Vista in Trouble?

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the shooting-feet dept.

Microsoft 879

Ken Erfourth writes "The Inquirer.net is running a story about what they consider two powerful indications that Vista is failing in the marketplace. One, Dell has reintroduced PCs running Windows XP on its website due to customer demand. Two, Microsoft is conducting a worldwide firesale on a bundle of Microsoft Office 2007/WindowsXP Starter Edition. According to Inquirer.net, at least, these are signs of serious problems selling Vista. Are we seeing the stumbling of the Microsoft Juggernaught with the slow adoption of Windows Vista?"

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ATTN: SWITCHEURS! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845053)

If you don't know what Cmd-Shift-1 and Cmd-Shift-2 are for, GTFO.
If you think Firefox is a decent Mac application, GTFO.
If you're still looking for the "maximize" button, GTFO.
If the name "Clarus" means nothing to you, GTFO.

Bandwagon jumpers are not welcome among real [imageshack.us] Mac [imageshack.us] users [imageshack.us] . Keep your filthy, beige [imageshack.us] PC fingers to yourself.

Re:ATTN: SWITCHEURS! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845185)

If you think you're helping the Macintosh with your flamebait shitheadedness, GTFO! Most of the kids in that picture don't look old enough to have been alive when the Mac debuted!

Other vendors still include XP as an option (1)

arcite (661011) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845063)

Such as Lenovo

Any others?

You got it wrong (4, Funny)

oringo (848629) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845153)

My friends, this is but another clever marketing strategy for M$ to sell more copies of Windows XP!

Re:You got it wrong (4, Funny)

clgoh (106162) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845485)

Like the New Coca Cola thing was to sell more Classic Coca Cola?

Re:Other vendors still include XP as an option (1)

danomac (1032160) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845281)

I've been told LG laptops will be available with XP as an option in a month or so.

Sits back, relaxes.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845067)

This is one going to be funny.

Re:Sits back, relaxes.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845149)

yes, no, maybe, fud, notfud

Now if only... (2, Funny)

Tofystedeth (1076755) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845077)

Dell would release PCs running XP without all the other crap it might be worth buying one. Maybe...

Re:Now if only... (1)

Mondo1287 (622491) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845211)

They do. Don't buy models from the Home/Home Office site, use the Enterprise site.

Re:Now if only... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845269)

What other crap?
We recently bought a PC, and the only other 'crap' we got on it was Google Desktop Search. We left that there until a colleague decided he needed the taskbar space.
I was so impressed, I bought a Dell laptop myself (with XP of course). Hasn't turned up yet though so I can't comment on it.

Re:Now if only... (1)

fitten (521191) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845359)

That's why the procedure for buying a Dell and you still want it to run Windows is boot an 'emergency' CD, run fdisk, run format, and then reboot with a Windows OS install CD/DVD.

Re:Now if only... (5, Insightful)

paeanblack (191171) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845435)

Dell would release PCs running XP without all the other crap it might be worth buying one. Maybe...

You do realize that all that nagware crap subsidizes the cost of the hardware, don't you? All that crap is exactly why Dells are worth buying. One wipe, which I'd be doing anyways, and it's all gone.

Why Upgrade at all? (4, Insightful)

nweaver (113078) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845085)

With XP, there was a compelling reason for a lot of people to upgrade. For the Win2K users, it got you the gaming APIs and other things formerly only good in the Win98 branch. For the Win98 branch users, it was a huge upgrade in stability and robustness.

With Vista, there is no compelling useful feature for users, and much of the content added is particularly ANTI-user. So why upgrade?

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (5, Informative)

dattaway (3088) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845113)

XP doesn't fully support the latest Vista technology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policeware [wikipedia.org]

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (1)

Rukie (930506) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845131)

I do not see Vista selling well until SP1 comes out. Right now there is no need for vista, and supposedly DX10 just got hacked, before DX10 games came out! So again, no need for vista, nor its bugs. It is also ridiculously confusing with its many different versions, some of which less capable than XP. I'd like to see M$ burn, but it won't happen yet.

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845137)

Odd.... I've been gaming on win2k since oh... 2001. Only recently have companies started locking us out, even though with a registry mod they work fine.

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (0)

Ferzerp (83619) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845147)

This is not correct. I gamed for years until 2k. The only realy reason for me to update was for OS level wireless support.

People keep comparing this to an XP release which is just a bad analog. This is more like a windows 2k release-- an entirely new platform that will take time for drivers and compatibility with old software to mature.

Of course, this is slashdot, so of course any story suggesting troubles for a windows version will get posted regardless of how true it is.

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845381)

This is more like a windows 2k release-- an entirely new platform that will take time for drivers and compatibility with old software to mature.

In what sense was Windows 2k "an entirely new platform"? Don't get me wrong, I think it was a pretty good release, but it was just the next stage in NT not something "entirely new".

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (1)

Ferzerp (83619) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845383)

gamed for years ON 2k, not until 2k. I didn't upgrade to Xp until last year.

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (1)

jonbryce (703250) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845535)

I moved to 2k as soon as it came out because it was so much more stable than 98. And 2k was very popular for its target market, the corporate desktop.

Vista doesn't seem to be popular anywhere, and I won't be switching until I have a good reason.

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (3, Funny)

jokerr (618070) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845177)

Because Aqua is the coolest thing out there...oh wait!

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (3, Funny)

Intron (870560) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845209)

but, but, under specs it says Vista is

"Most secure Windows® ever"

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (4, Funny)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845375)

"Most secure Windows® ever"
Isn't that kind of like being the prettiest checkout clerk at Wal-Mart?

Re: XP is good enough (1)

Brad_sk (919670) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845301)

The major thing here is Windows XP is not bad...I have hardly had any crashes on my XP machine and I am using it with more ease (in installation and setup) than my Ubuntu m/c at home.
Theres not much need for people to simply switch to Vista - It will happen over time though as we may like to use the Aero interface or other new features in Vista or even in Visa Sp1!!

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (4, Interesting)

GlassHeart (579618) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845409)

It's not just XP being good enough, but also most people's existing hardware being good enough. Used to be that hardware manufacturers would make extra money when people wanted to upgrade to hungry software, and Microsoft makes extra money when people upgraded computers for some other reason, but now when both are good enough, nobody feels the need to upgrade until it's actually broken.

Re:Why Upgrade at all? (2, Interesting)

danomac (1032160) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845481)

Most people in the market for a new PC aren't going to know the difference between XP and Vista. A lot of the older generation also think that a PC is a one-time buy. They aren't going to go shopping for a new computer every few years. One of the older folks I do some work for (finally) decided to replace his aging Duron 733 from 7 or so years ago. I still know quite a few older folks with PCs older than that.

There isn't any reason for this share of the market to upgrade. Sure, they can advertise all they want; people still aren't going to buy it. It won't make a difference. My Mom wanted a new laptop and I told her to get it with XP as she uses some custom software... I didn't want to have to do compatibility testing on old software.

Not everyone will just jump on a new OS. Those that have likely have been burned once and will wait it out a bit. Once the buggy drivers are fixed, and your average cheap PC (sub-$500) can run Vista at a reasonable speed (currently Vista is slow on these PCs), then likely there will be more of a shift toward Vista.

Another big hit for Microsoft was the refusal of government and related agencies to use Vista. At some point they will allow it, but not anytime soon.

In a few years Vista may be mainstream, but it won't get there anytime soon. I didn't allow XP where I worked until a year and a half ago. Windows 2000 suited us just fine.

It was trouble (4, Insightful)

neoform (551705) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845087)

when they slipped their release date by 3 years..

they're in even more trouble since they haven't said a word about their next version of windows..

Re:It was trouble (5, Funny)

Glonoinha (587375) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845151)

They weren't slipping their release date.
They were just waiting for hardware performance to catch up.

Re:It was trouble (5, Insightful)

StarvingSE (875139) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845401)

Not only did they slip on the release date, but they dropped many features that would have made the OS actually new. What we have now is on OS that costs a lot of money for a bunch of features that are truly cosmetic in nature. There is absolutely nothing to get excited about with Vista.

I could see delaying release for 3 years becuase they wnated to perfect some brand new must-have feature, but the product that was delivered was simply anti-climatic to say the least.

Why do you say that? (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845507)

Look, we release in the OSS world when it is ready. Things are routinely "slipped" (as much as they can be in the OSS world). I think that MS was right to hold it back. The real problem is that MS is trying to add security to their system and deal with all the horribly designed add-ons that they had. The security that MS now has it probably the best (or possibly the minimum needed) to accomplish it.

Explaination needed? ... Didn't think so (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845093)

So can we get the 'yes' and 'hahaha' tags already

Get real (5, Insightful)

Lord Grey (463613) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845097)

Are we seeing the stumbling of the Microsoft Juggernaught with the slow adoption of Windows Vista?
Are you perhaps reading just a little too much into these events in the interest of journalistic sensationalism? Is an article on Inquirer.net really worth referencing anywhere else on the internet?

I don't like Microsoft, and I gleefully read all about Vista's "innovations" and the Zune's "features" and laugh. But this article is just a little too opinionated to make worthwhile.

But there is a precedent for this (2, Insightful)

Travoltus (110240) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845225)

Windows ME.

Re:Get real (2, Insightful)

kid_oliva (899189) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845443)

I am going to have to agree here. Although, I like Microsoft more because they keep me employed. The real test will be next year about this time. Gamers don't drive adoption of OS's. Normal people buying PC's out of the box from retailers do. When you are not able to buy XP on an out of the box system is when you will start to see wider acceptance as the threshold of users increase. It is still way to early to tell anything.

Preaching to the choir (4, Insightful)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845099)

Did the submitter know this is /.? Plenty of us here think the answer is yes, and have been thinking that for a loooong time. I'm more interested in anone here who thinks Vista will do well, and why. So step right up and change my mind, let me know why you think Vista will eventually dominate. And I need a better argument than "800-pound gorilla".

Re:Preaching to the choir (1, Funny)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845187)


.
.
.
.

Damn lamemess filter

Re:Preaching to the choir (1)

Itninja (937614) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845201)

It will dominate because Microsoft will stop allowing any vendor to sell pre-installs after 2007. I think 90% of new SO/HO machines will have Vista by mid-2008; whether they asked for it or not.

Re:Preaching to the choir (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845249)

Because they are secretly planning to buy out Ubuntu, before you know it you will be running Windows Vista, you just won't know it!

Re:Preaching to the choir (5, Insightful)

cliffski (65094) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845285)

because it's better than XP.

I have 2 machines, a vista one and an XP one (plus an XP laptop). The Vista PC is newer, so i can't do an apples and apples comparison, but still, my impression is that Vista feels nicer, slicker, more responsive and faster than XP.
Like most versions of windows, it's hard to really put my finger on a single 'killer app' that makes Vista better, but as a user, the overalle xperience just feels more polished.
I *had* to get a vista machine, to do compatility tests for my games, but I certainly don't regret doing so. I'd be suprised if many end users who get an O/S with a new PC, who aren't uber geeks will go out of their way to ask for the earlier operating system, especially as any new machine will run vista fine.

I know lots of people have a beef with various aspects of Vista, but they don't bother me. I don't watch downloaded movies on my PC, I use it for gaming and surfing and developing, so the DRM that may be in it doesn't bother me personally.
Apart from anything, Vista is more likely to be safer, as XP will now be ignroed in terms of patching exploits.

Vista will win in the long term. it might be longer than the short-termists who write magazine articles are used to, but in 3-4 years from now, it will seem funny to have written off vista.
Microsoft aren't as strong as they used to be, Google has seen to that, and I doubt they would attempt to do an even more bloated expensive O/S after vista, but I also doubt there will be any long term problems in its takeup.

Dell + Ubuntu (2, Funny)

easyEmu (977903) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845103)

Don't forget that Michael Dell installed Ubuntu on 1 out of 23 of his personal laptops!

Here's the problem (4, Interesting)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845109)

The problem for MS this time around is that everyone was happy with XP. Ok, maybe not everybody was completely happy, but it's pretty stable, and does just about everything most people need it to do. People don't want to go back to having to run something that's buggy, or slows their system down. It's not like with windows 98, where we were still getting frequent BSODs. XP is a pretty good OS, and if people don't want to change, I don't blame them.

Re:Here's the problem (1)

fandog (900111) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845189)

Agreed. And when we read articles here about MS stopping the OEM distribution of XP by the end of the year to force OEM Vista adoption, how does that *not* qualify as restraint of trade?

I don't see how the DOJ can be ignoring this, (in the US anyway).

Re:Here's the problem (4, Insightful)

m0rph3us0 (549631) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845325)

It's not restraint of trade. They simply don't offer the product for sale anymore. Why should a company not be allowed to discontinue a product? If a more satisfying product is offered by another company consumers will simply migrate.

Re:Here's the problem (1)

glindsey (73730) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845487)

If a more satisfying product is offered by another company consumers will simply migrate.

Or pirate the product that isn't for sale anymore.

Re:Here's the problem (1)

Billosaur (927319) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845229)

Agreed. As much as it still has flaws, XP is a vast improvement over the Windows that came before. I think I've only ever seen the BSOD twice in five years, and I could have never said that about Win98 or Win2K. Perhaps it's getting bit long in the tooth now, but my next move is more likely to be to Ubuntu than to Vista.

BSOD this! (1)

davido42 (956948) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845299)

I can pretty reliably get a BSOD on my Dell XP laptop. My audio interface seems to think it's all-powerful when I connect it via my PCMCIA card. Then the Dell says, "Like hell you are!" and BSODs. At least it's predictable.
As for actually "upgrading" to Vista, being able to listen to Robert Fripp's boot music is not enough of a reason. I'll wait for the rest of the sheep to beat the bugs out of it first.
[url:http://www.bitworksmusic.com]

No, It's Not (5, Insightful)

asphaltjesus (978804) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845143)

There's this thing called a monopoly that prevents this trouble from occurring.

Windows users will buy new machines, and get Vista "real soon now." The number of users that switch will be nominal. No harm done to Microsoft.

As much as the media may want it to be, there is no competition in a market with a Monopoly.

Re:No, It's Not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845351)

Windows users will buy new machines, and get Vista "real soon now." The number of users that switch will be nominal. No harm done to Microsoft.



Either you're misunderstanding what the word "nominal" means, or I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say...


Re:No, It's Not (1)

glindsey (73730) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845415)

Windows users will buy new machines, and get Vista "real soon now."

Not if companies like Dell buck the trend and continue to offer XP on new machines.

Re:No, It's Not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845425)

The word monopoly gets thrown around so much at slashdot that it has lost all meaning. Right this very second I am able to install a multitude of OSes on my machine. Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly. The consumers are simply too lazy/apathetic to put in the effort of using something else.

Re:No, It's Not (1)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845465)

Oooh. Sorry. "Monopoly" doesn't apply within a company's own line of products. Whether people "buy" Vista or "buy" XP is immaterial with respect to Microsoft's "monopoly". Their "monopoly" would apply when compared to other vendor products, not their own.

And I'm pretty sure your definition of monopoly is different from mine seeing as how I can choose from literally dozens of alternative OS's, many of which are completely free.

Re:No, It's Not (4, Funny)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845503)

As much as the media may want it to be, there is no competition in a market with a Monopoly.

Oh come on, I think there is. I can think of several off the top of my head; Snakes & Ladders, Hungry Hungry Hippoes, Cluedo, etc.

Re:No, It's Not - Did you read TFA?? (3, Interesting)

scsirob (246572) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845513)

When OEM's are providing customers an option to stay with XP, there no longer is an automatic 'Vista migration' anymore. The trick just went away. If Dell decides that they can't sell PC's with Vista but they can with XP, then Dell will continue to sell XP and customers will continue to get XP systems.

What's amazing is that the beta community has been loudly warning Microsoft for the imminent failure for more than a year. That's unprecedented as well. All Microsoft beta's are near-adorations of the company. Vista is the first where I saw open revolt against some of the stuff being pulled. And guess what, they did not listen.

Re:No, It's Not (1)

ArmedLemming (18042) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845515)

to expand upon this point, all Microsoft has to do (and have set into motion [microsoft.com] ) is enact an end-of-life [wordpress.com] for XP then people will be forced to upgrade to Vista. With real monopoly power, it doesn't matter if Vista is poor. The masses *will* be assimilated.

The Market is Saturated - little room for growth (5, Insightful)

HighOrbit (631451) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845155)

By now, the PC market is saturated and MS already has 90+ percent of it. Nearly everybody who needs or wants a PC already has one. This means that there will be little growth and the market is really based on replacement of older models with newer ones. MS already has a huge market share, so they can't grow by taking share away from the competition.

This does not mean MS or Vista are washed-up. It just means it is a mature market. MS and Vista are actually sitting pretty. They will continue to see 90+ percent of new computers running their stuff for the foreseeable future. But they simply won't have double-digit growth year over year, just a steady torrent of replacements.

Re:The Market is Saturated - little room for growt (1)

jimicus (737525) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845461)

This is a problem for a company whose entire business model for the last 20 years has been based on double-digit year growth.

TBH, I think that's part of the reason Vista requires so many people to upgrade their hardware. Not because there's any technical need for it to be such a resource hog, but because Microsoft know full well most of their market will be the OEM market so by making people say "Ooh! Shiny! Must buy a new computer!" they won't have to worry about people being intimidated by the thought of installing an OS themselves.

A bit like how people are buying next-gen consoles even though it's far from clear which will have the strongest games catalogue by this time next year.

First sign of the apocalypse (0)

kornkid606 (1076023) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845167)

Are we seeing the stumbling of the Microsoft Juggernaught

MUAHAHHAHA

Either this is the first sign of the apocalypse or the times they are a changin'

Can't you just see Bill Gates crying, "But I'm the Juggernaught bbbbbbbbiiiiiitttttccccchhhhh!"

funny mental images =)

It's great, but... (2, Insightful)

Last_Available_Usern (756093) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845169)

Vista is a great OS, it just may be a little too bulky for it's time. It probably needs to wait a little bit for mainstream hardware to catch up to it's outlandish specs (which in all honesty, you don't need if you don't run it in it's Turbo Hyper-Fighting Championship Edition graphics mode).

Re:It's great, but... (2, Insightful)

Reason58 (775044) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845257)

It probably needs to wait a little bit for mainstream hardware to catch up to it's outlandish specs (which in all honesty, you don't need if you don't run it in it's Turbo Hyper-Fighting Championship Edition graphics mode).
The new UI is 95% of the reason to move to Vista. If you are going to disable it then why use Vista over XP at all?

Re:It's great, but... (5, Funny)

Last_Available_Usern (756093) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845317)

Well because it has better secur...errr, I mean, the driver support is muc...well, ok, you may have me there.

Re:It's great, but... (3, Interesting)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845367)

What I want to know is why it requires super duper computing abilities even with the "Turbo Hyper-Fighting Championship Edition graphics mode". It's not doing anything that's not being done on OSX or Linux (Compiz, Beryl). So why does Vista require so much power when Linux and OSX can do it on half the hardware?

Re:It's great, but... (2, Interesting)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845433)

looks like someone needs to read the article in my sig.. or better yet i'll give you the juicier portions:

the primary objective of vista is to reproduce xp with a rediculously overcomplicated drm system (greater than anything in history, including systems designed to protect top secret classified government files).

this drm system uses tremendous amounts of resources, specifically the os polls hardware once every 30 milliseconds while idling, and when rendering video polls the video stream every single frame. a screenshot linked from that article shows 20% cpu usage (on a modern machine) from the video DRM server.. which was not even playing drm content.

this drm system also removes necessary fault tolerance from hardware because that voltage fluctuation from.. say.. humidity.. a power surge.. or a sudden impact(turbulence maybe) might be a hacking attempt.. so it has to shutdown the software(crash it intentionally)... detracting from stability.

vista is not a great OS, it's an abomination, but microsoft will invariably use its insane superpower trouncing leverage to foist it on the public and bring an end to general purpose computing.

Well (-1, Troll)

Endo13 (1000782) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845171)

Are we seeing the stumbling of the Microsoft Juggernaught with the slow adoption of Windows Vista?"
One can hope.

Re:Well (2, Insightful)

Last_Available_Usern (756093) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845265)

Care to elaborate? Or are you just onboard with the "Hate Microsoft" bandwagon? As someone who works in an environment supporting Microsoft (and other) products, I'm in no immediate hurry to see them tumble down just because I like to watch big things go boom.

I am not a fanboy but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845191)

I do not think Microsoft is really feeling any heat here. They have enough of a user base that will be forced to update at some point or another. People will complain but in the end, when they get a new computer, it will come with Vista.

Now I am talking about normal users, so there is no need to flame. It is easier for most users to use what they are familiar with. They use Windows/Word at work and they will use the same at home.

Microsoft has already won. They might not have the checkmate now, but they will over time.

in the end (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845505)

cmdrtaco put it in my end last night

As long as Apple doesnt pick up their market share (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845219)

then I dont care. Apple and Microsoft both suck. It's time for Linux to knock off these two boring operating systems. They had their day in the sun but now it's time for them to go.

Why wouldn't it be? (5, Insightful)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845245)

Is Vista in trouble? Why wouldn't it be? Even if Microsoft gave the thing away for free, it totally ignores the fact that there's an enormous cost [auckland.ac.nz] to upgrading. Microsoft doesn't need a fire sale, it needs to be paying people to install this thing.

Let's run down the usual suspects of people who upgrade and see how they feel:

  • Business users hate it. The hardware required to run it cost a lot of money when multiplied by tens, hundreds, or thousands of employees. Add to that the training costs, the support costs, the deployment costs, and so on ad nauseum, and the business decision easily becomes a no-brainer. And for what? Beefed up "security" that causes your user base to go nuts answering "Allow or deny" dialog boxes?
  • Gamers hate it. It just plain doesn't run with the hardware that's out right now. I really think that Vista is trying to be the proverbial egg that comes before widespread manufacturer support (the proverbial chicken), but it's just not happening. Every gamer I know is avoiding Vista like the plague. As long as gamers aren't begging for Vista support in their high-end components, manufacturers are still going to continue to be reluctant.
  • Speaking of manufacturers, it's obvious that they hate it, too. When I tried Vista for a week a while back (not the beta, the so-called real version after launch), two things didn't work. My Creative SoundBlaster Live! card and my nVidia video card. To be fair, the latter technically worked, but some of its higher-end functionality didn't. We're not talking about little no-name manufacturers here or bizarre equipment, we're talking about common cards from major manufacturers. Have you even seen the hoops that hardware manufacturers have to jump through to comply with Vista's outrageous requirements?
  • The emerging home entertainment market hates it. Let's not mince words: One of Vista's primary design goals is Digital Rights "Management," keeping these people from doing what they want to do. Why would buy software that takes functionality away!!?

I could go on, but you get the point. Is Vista in trouble? You bet. Add to all of the above the competition that it faces from various Linux distributions that are easier than ever to install and use, products like Mac OS, clever new projects such as ReactOS [reactos.org] , and even its own predecessor! and it becomes clear that Microsoft should be praying that people pirate it, because that's the only way it's going to make any kind of splash when all is said and done.

Don't get me wrong, it won't die completely, any more than Windows ME is dead. But in the annals of operating systems, my money is that it will be merely a blip on the screen. If Microsoft is smart, it should be working on adding features to its operating system, making it faster and more powerful and easier to use. It should be fighting with us against DRM, not against us by crippling their software with it.

Personally, I think that Microsoft is not very smart, but who knows, I guess we'll see. At any rate, after giving it a week to try to convince me that it's not as bad as everyone says it is, I was very disappointed in it and won't be running it anytime in the forseeable future.

Re:Why wouldn't it be? (1)

Kpau (621891) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845447)

Though the situation is much more complicated, we all know that soundbites sway the day.... I'll start calling Vista "Windows ME 2.0" when I discuss it with all the people and businesses who keep asking me about it. Another poster astutely points out the "MS has you by balls" issue with XP (phonehome mothership ping) activation and rechecks when you want a patch. If push/shove erupts they could start winking out XP installations (sometimes even corporations do amazingly stupid things, yo?) I take very good care of my win2k disks.... (and my ubuntu disks and my ...)

Re:Why wouldn't it be? (2, Interesting)

Dobeln (853794) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845473)

Agree with some of your other points (I'm sticking with XP for the forseeable future...), but I have to ask about this one:

"The emerging home entertainment market hates it. Let's not mince words: One of Vista's primary design goals is Digital Rights "Management," keeping these people from doing what they want to do. Why would buy software that takes functionality away!!?"

Which functionality is taken away? IIRC, the only DRM in Vista is there to enable playback of DRM-enabled media. (I.e. HD-DVD/BluRay) It's not as if it infects all your AVI files with some vicious DRM scheme.

Re:Why wouldn't it be? (1)

t35t0r (751958) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845523)

  • The scientific community hates it more than they hate Windows. It doesn't have full opengl support or hardware stereo support and uses up CPU power for what could be used to do number crunching.

OEM Licensing (4, Funny)

Detritus (11846) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845247)

Microsoft is in control. All they have to do is to discontinue XP OEM licensing, or substantially raise the price. You'll get Vista with your new PC and you'll like it. If you don't like it, See Figure One [things.org] .

There's a VISTA PC on my desk (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845259)

Nobody touches it, nobody cares. It just sits there, a Dual Processor Dual Core Hyperthreaded monster and nobody thinks its worth the time to even login.

Even I don-t touch it because the fan is noisy, all that eye candy and gloss and the noisy fan outweighs it.

I'm typing this on Feisty Fluffer, no Funky Feaster, no Finkle Fungerstein, oh whatever the latest Ubuntu is called. It's far from perfect, the keyboard layout doesn't know the Spanish keyboard I have (where are those damn brackets_ and why is the question mark an underscore__). The typefaces are not as good as Windows, the status bar is too high and the icons too amateur, but so far 2 people have asked me for a copy of the disk.

So yes Vista is in trouble, big big trouble. It-s a big yawn, it's late and the stories we hear of privileges being determined by filename etc. mean I just don-t want to waste time with it.

What do you mean (5, Funny)

SnarfQuest (469614) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845277)

What do you mean, slow starter.

They've already sold 244 copies in China!

It'll be easy to tell on Thursday (2, Insightful)

notaprguy (906128) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845307)

Microsoft reports earnings on Thursday and I'm sure they'll provide some details on sales of Vista and Office 2007. From what I've read, sales of Vista seem to be good. Dell's decision to offer XP is a PR thing...they had a few customers who complained.

We all saw it comming!!!! (0, Redundant)

wpemt (1092185) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845331)

Does anyone recall a little abonmenation named ME? windows ME Millennium released by windows??? like an actual computer virus in giuse of an Os?!!!! Use Lynx!!!!!

Even on sale, it's still overpriced (2, Interesting)

HTMLSpinnr (531389) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845335)

I saw what seemed like plenty of copies of Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade at my local closing CompUSA marked 30% off, which still made it about $181 + tax. Still too much considering the OEM copies can be had for less, and the real apparent benefits don't outweigh the bugs and incompatibility with my various hardware or software.

Seemed kind of fitting that the "failing OS" was one of the few remaining items on the shelf within a failing computer store.

this article is childish (1)

malevolentjelly (1057140) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845337)

This article is full of fuming anger and childish insults. This is a poor excuse for journalism. I'll wait until a real reporter, expert, or analyst writes about this to form an opinion.

The world of tech journalism is full of wild fanboys- his "wild march to Linux" is far more underlined by a march to Mac, and moreso even to XP. I question this guy's motives.

Outrageous Pricing Maybe? (3, Insightful)

zenasprime (207132) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845343)

I thought about installing on a spare drive just to see what all the non-fuss was about but then I saw that it was going to cost $200+ and said "no thanks".

The skinny.. (2, Interesting)

Mockylock (1087585) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845353)

I've been running Vista for a long while, and retail version since release. It ran alright for a while, but lately has been pretty sluggish with only a gig of ram. I'm really wanting to switch back to 2003, but Media center and the 360 are just too valuable at the moment. (I know.. hook, line, sinker).

Either way.. I can see why it's not going over so hot. Too many changes, too sluggish for most PCs and the differences in change aren't really THAT numerous for people to really want to change. It just wasn't ready for release.

I know it runs well for a lot of people, and it did on mine as well.. though I disabled a lot of the memory hog features. I just can't afford to put more luit into ram, and after that... I hope my luck changes.

The problem is XP is an UPGRADE over Vista (3, Insightful)

jmorris42 (1458) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845361)

If you are a gamer, XP is an upgrade from Vista. Helped one build a new system recently. Of course they they bought a copy of (32bit OEM) Vista. 3D performace (with a 512MB NVidia card running current drivers) was pitiful and the machine only saw 2GB of the 4GB installed. They are in an area with no broadband so PeoplePC being unable to get them connected via dialup was the final insult.

So they bought a copy of XP and reinstalled. 3D looked like what a top of the line card should be able to do and dialup worked. Performance in general was vastly improved. Still had the 2GB memory limit though, probably not much to there except go to a 64bit system and suffer the issues involved with that... not worth it.

Yes most of their problem was probably driver related. Doesn't matter, Vista is now facing the same problem we Linux users deal with every day. Users don't want to hear excuses, if the OS doesn't work with their hardware NOW they don't want to hear "maybe it will work someday". Especially since right now it doesn't appear a Vista user has any good options. NVidia doesn't perform well, ATI doesn't even have a DX10 hard out and Intel only has low end onboard stuff.

Three years late and they still couldn't manage to bully the key hardware players to have proper support available for launch. Doesn't sound like an 800lb gorilla to me. This fiacso is going to be long remembered.

XP will be gone at the end of the Year (3, Insightful)

baggins2001 (697667) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845363)

Most vendors I talk to have said that they are being allowed to sell XP until the end of the year. Systems sold in 2008 will have to have Vista.
Part of the problem is that there was not enough support for Vista ( a lot of people ran into problems with drivers ).
Basically MS got some of the pressure off of them to put a new OS out. Early adopters get to be the guinea pigs while the rest of us wait for the major problems to be fixed.

If you think about it for a second or two (1)

TheDarkener (198348) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845385)

It's easy to understand why.

There's no good reason to upgrade. No killer app(s), no great usability improvements, no speed increase.

Just more crap, in different places.

It gets old.

The OS is good, the pricing is silly (1)

pcause (209643) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845389)

I've been using Vista since RTM. I generally find it pretty good and certainly superior to XP. The *REAL* problem with Vista is that the pricing is ridiculous. Ultimate is pretty nice, but the price of $400 is simply $250 off from what anyone will pay and Home basic is a joke.

MS will figure this out and find a way to cut prices or they will see a long and slow adoption curve for Vista.

You know... the same things were said... (1, Insightful)

MSFanBoi2 (930319) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845391)

When Windows 95 came out people said the same thing.
When Windows 98 came out people said the same thing.
When Windows 2000 came out people said the same thing.
When Windows Me came out people said the same thing (and were right)
When Windows XP came out people said the same thing.

Rest assured, Microsoft will do all they can to make sure Vista is very much a success. Remember, even with it's supposed bad sales, Windows Vista already has more users than MacOS as a whole...

Windows XP usable after SP2 (0)

sygin (659338) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845437)

I keep reading comments by people saying "Everyone said that XP sucked when it came out ...".
The fact is that XP did suck when it came out and was only usable after SP2.

Vista has only just been released. Please don't judge it until Vista SP2 is out.
It will be better than XP by then.

PS: I will laugh my ass off if this DirectX-10 for Windows XP hack pans out.

"trusted" computing (1)

TheUz (675711) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845439)

No, we are seeing consumer backlash to digital rights management. Why is this so difficult to understand? If I can't play what I want, how I want, then your operating system is broken. Products that are not broken do exist. I choose to use those instead.

Charlie Demerjian has no fucking clue (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845445)

That would be the author of the Inquirer "article". He makes no factual assertions beyond what has already been printed in the press for the last week. Then he asserts that this means *DOOOOOM* for Vista. Ah, yes. "*BSD is dying" for the Windows crowd.

Allow me to break the bad news: Vista won't go away. Back when XP was released, there was popular demand for Windows 2000 for several years. Where I work (University lab), we *still* get requests for Windows 2000 from time to time. The university will not support Vista for at least a year. And then it will take another good year to deploy. By that time, I expect a service pack will have been released.

Demerjian is a troll with the backing of the worst IT rag in the industry. And /. keeps giving him, and his lame publisher, links and press time and time again.

Microsoft sucess is its failure. (2, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845451)

With Microsoft Goal a PC on every desk with Microsoft on it. Coming as close to reality as it is going to get. People are no longer excited by computers as they once were. Back in the 80s and early 90s PC were things for Geeks and Young People and Computers are the future but the presents is fine. So the younger generation started getting computers and such causing the growth in the PC market. Everything was new and exciting. Then the last big hooray was Windows 95 where all computers not just Macs were considered easy enough for everyone to use and with a timely popularity of the internet (in which MS jumped onto late) PCs became technology of NOW where everyone needs it, to function in our society fully. Now computers are way to common and the average person is not excited about the upgrade they have been threw the process and most people today have at least one upgrade under their belt, and that upgrade wasn't as exciting as they expected. So more and more people are not caring about a new flashier version of windows. Now the Geeks are hoarding and around Linux and Apple, so that is where the people who care are giving excitement too, back in 95 a lot of geeks were willing to wait until midnight to be the first for Windows 95 and now many of those people will hit refresh on their browser waiting for the next version of their favorite distribution or go to Apple Update Parties. As for Windows people don't care. Sure they use it but they are not excited on getting a new version just because it looks cooler. If they are going to put money into it it needs to be something much bigger. And the fact they learned that they could keep Windows 98 running for almost a decade afterwards and still run modern stuff. Makes them realize that XP will be around for a while to and no need to upgrade, heck they could probably skip a version if they felt like it.

A while back on Slashdot... (1)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845467)

A while back, I distinctly remember reading a post on Slashdot predicting that there would be endless Vista articles, as in several on a daily basis from the date it was officially released. Obsession over it, if you will. I remember laughing, and it was modded funny. Looks like it should've been modded informative. :-\

Vista vs. Early OS X (1)

G4from128k (686170) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845475)

I wonder if Vista's adoption will be at all similar to that of OS X. Version 10.0 wasn't all that great and created quite a bit of gnashing of teeth over issues of speed, backward compatibility, missing features, etc. By version 10.3, Apple had a really nice OS. Perhaps Vista will follow a similar path of improving performance and usability over the next few years.

We can dream, can't we? (1)

h00pla (532294) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845477)

Is Windows Vista in trouble?


Let's hope so!

Deja vu (0)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845483)

I'm too lazy to go hunting around, but EXACTLY these sort of comments were being made when XP came out. And it'll be the same story this time around. Once people get used to Vista via new computers purchases, the rest of the computers will follow.

Wishful thinking! (1)

why-is-it (318134) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845495)

Are we seeing the stumbling of the Microsoft Juggernaught with the slow adoption of Windows Vista?

As if!

The problem m$ is facing right now is that they are competing against themself. Let's face it, xp is good enough for just about everyone and there isn't anything in vista to warrant an upgrade. That was not the case with their previous releases of 95, 98 or xp, when there was a clear technology improvement with each new release.

Eventually m$ will kill off support for xp and lean on the OEMs to push the new OS and that will be the end of it. The migration won't happen on machines that are already out there, it will happen when those machines are replaced.

I imagine that m$ is facing a similar problem with office. There aren't any compelling reasons to upgrade from office97 to anything newer. There's not a lot you can to to tart up a word processor or spreadsheet other than add features that nobody really wants. Sadly, outlook is still outlook and they don't seem to be doing much to improve the one product that needs it the most. I guess that is why they are driving mandatory software upgrades through their enterprise support agreements. If what you have is "good enough" (the standard to which m$ has always aspired to IMHO) there is no reason to upgrade voluntarily.

Therein lies the problem - they only make money on upgrades, and there aren't any reasons for their customers to upgrade anymore, so m$ has to be more creative. I think that is why the are pushing for software as a service. If they can get people to pay an annual fee for windows, they won't have the big upgrade cycle and won't have to invent ways to force us to upgrade.

I don't know if their next OS will be subscription based, but I'd wager the more interesting parts of it will be, just to get us used to the idea, and that will be the end of the upgrade cycle.

I don't know if that is good or bad, but I'm pretty sure that an annual subscription for windows will be more expensive to me as a consumer than their current pricing model is...

Vista. XP. Who Cares? (2, Informative)

BeBoxer (14448) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845511)

Vista. XP. Who Cares? Does Microsoft really care? As long as you are buying their OS, they are doing fine. No, the threat to Microsoft is not people choosing XP over Vista. It's people choosing OSX. In my little part of the world (education/research institution) OSX has reached about 30-50% penetration in the laptop arena. At least judging by what people actually bring to meetings. That trend will spell real trouble for Microsoft if it continutes.

not ready (1)

robpoe (578975) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845519)

It's not ready.

There is a lot of software that won't run on it.

It's buggy - feels rushed. There are things in it that are still broken - things that were broken during beta.

Honestly, if Intuit released Quickbooks for Linux (yeah, right) - there are a lot of businesses that would probably switch..

Well (1)

UPZ (947916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18845525)

I think the problem is that the XP to Vista turnover is slow. Eventually almost everyone will get Vista anyway because no other option is there. I just don't think peope will be shelling out money for Vista. It will liekly come when bundled with a new PC.

Wise to Microsofts game (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18845531)

Oppressive computing isn't what early adopters and technology leaders want, the ignorant masses have no one to follow. Far from heralding a new vision of computing, Vista (DRM) is the stuff of dystopian nightmares.
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