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MS Offers Vista Upgrade Pricing To All

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the sultan-Bill's-house-of-software dept.

Windows 395

SlinkySausage writes "With a vague whiff of desperation, Microsoft is offering anyone who downloaded one of the betas or release candidates of Vista upgrade pricing for the full version. The 'special' deal is a sweetener for the fact that the betas will start expiring and becoming non-functional from May 31st. APC Magazine in Australia writes: 'Windows Vista is starting to look like those Persian rug stores which are always having a "closing down" sale... All stock has been slashed, save $$$, why pay more?'" Perhaps Microsoft is cognizant of straws in the wind such as a recent InformationWeek survey indicating that 30% of business have no intention of moving to Vista, ever.

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395 comments

OH MAH AGOD (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883457)

FRST PZT FSKRS

ob (5, Funny)

Bloke down the pub (861787) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883461)

those Persian rug stores which are always having a "closing down" sale... All stock has been slashed, save $$$, why pay more?
It's quite reasonable to expect a discount if the goods have been damaged with a knife.

Good (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883913)

Take your DRM and shove it.

I will not pay money for a product that puts a collar around my neck.

That is all.

fp! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883483)

boing!

What's the benefit? (4, Insightful)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883487)

Same old, same old. But with a few extra hassles.

Mmmmm, compelling proposition there. Course, what they should have done is made sure that MS Office was subtly broken on XP. Well, you never know, now I've made that particular suggestion on this highly read web site we might well see that feature in future windows updates.

 

Re:What's the benefit? (5, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883549)

I think that would only have caused companies not to upgrade MS Office either. MS Office 2000 is probably good enough for most businesses (as is 97). With the amount of retraining that 2007 will take, I don't think than most businesses will want to make that move either.

Re:What's the benefit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883557)

Same old, same old. But with a few extra hassles.
Well, there's an easier-to-administrate volume licensing model, built-in enterprise desktop management stuff and full-disk encryption (for the tinfoil hat VP types) for a start. Microsoft don't just do what the hell they feel like, they do talk to businesses and gauge what they want.

Re:What's the benefit? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883623)

If you want full disk encryption it's a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to roll out something like PointSec onto your current XP machines than it is to upgrade to Vista and no enterprise in their right mind would deploy Vista full disk encryption in an organisation already using a different product (Because then you have two different tracking and management systems to deal with). It's hardly a major bullet list item that has enterprises scrambling to upgrade.

Re:What's the benefit? (4, Funny)

krbvroc1 (725200) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883955)

Microsoft don't just do what the hell they feel like, they do talk to businesses and gauge what they want.
Like the RIAA, MPAA, BSA and NSA?

Re:What's the benefit? (5, Funny)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883619)

Mmmmm, compelling proposition there. Course, what they should have done is made sure that MS Office was subtly broken on XP. Well, you never know, now I've made that particular suggestion on this highly read web site we might well see that feature in future windows updates.

Well, they've got two weeks to put together their "Critical Patch for Office 2007: Fixes a major compatibility issue with Windows XP that allows a computer owner to take control of their computer. It is recommended that everyone install this update. A reboot will be required after installation."

Re:What's the benefit? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883795)

Powerpoint 2007 *IS* broken on XP. A huge step backwards from PPT 2003. Just when you thought Office had matured, the bugs are back, and they come together with bloat and sluggishness!

Can't say that it's not broken on Vista though...

Re:What's the benefit? (1)

ultrasound (472511) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884057)

Powerpoint 97 works fine on XP :-)

At least it will until the patch mentioned by gEvil earlier on is released.

Re:What's the benefit? (5, Funny)

sharkey (16670) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883911)

Mmmmm, compelling proposition there. Course, what they should have done is made sure that MS Office was subtly broken on XP.

Instead of being overtly broken as has been the case since Word 1.0?

Re:What's the benefit? (1)

vought (160908) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884133)

Mmmmm, compelling proposition there.

A corporate flop sweat is compelling?

That's not what people were saying when Apple was desperately trying to foist System 7.5 on people in 1995.

Microsoft is very bad at poker when they're holding a shitty hand.

Profit?? (3, Interesting)

faloi (738831) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883511)

I wonder how much MS really makes off Windows, particularly at the consumer level, in terms of profit per unit. It's easy to see in some business lines where the profit really is (ink jet printers versus cartridge refills, concessions versus ticket prices at theaters, etc.), but it's a little blurry in software. It probably makes good business sense for MS to lower the price on their OS by $100 or so per unit and make it up in other lines of business. 'Course, I still won't upgrade until I get more or less forced into it because of DirectX 10 (damn you, gaming addiction!), but it might get them more actual sales.

Re:Profit?? (2, Insightful)

OffTheLip (636691) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883553)

You don't just buy Microsoft, you buy _into_ Microsoft. It often is a life sentence.

Re:Profit?? (1, Troll)

kimvette (919543) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883607)

At $751 for the only version worth a damn, it's no wonder Vista isn't selling.

Re:Profit?? (2, Informative)

Bedouin X (254404) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883613)

Last I read, Windows and Office are where Microsoft basically make all of their money. The other units (I think there are three or four) were aggregate losers.

Re:Profit?? (1)

Himring (646324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883663)

I wonder how much MS really makes off Windows

billions?

Re:Profit?? (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884015)

MSFT makes roughly 400% profit on office and windows.

Every other product line is barely making profit or is losing money.

Without Window and Office MSFT would have been out of business a long time ago as those two product lines fund everything else.

Re:Profit?? (1)

BigBadBus (653823) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884065)

A friend of mine works in the computer games industry and several of his games have been published by MS. I don't know the figures, but most of MS's profits come from Office and OSes. Everything else brings in chicken feed.

I wonder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18884125)

Does MS's warchest give enough investment return to pay for Windows OS/Application development? If so, then you could argue that Vista and Office are 100% profit: we've already paid for the development from past overcharging.

Re:Profit?? (1)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884213)

If you look at their quarterly/yearly earnings, each copy of Vista will net them about $40 bundled with a PC.

You will also see that about 1/3 of their operating profit comes from OSes.

So reducing the price by $100 would lose them money AND reduce their operating profit by half.

Hmm (2, Insightful)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883513)

Repeating a lie a thousand times will not make it true. Vista may be selling slow, but not slowly than Ubuntu users are upgrading to the last Fety thingy (and THAT is free!!!!) , or not slowly than Borland^H^H^H^H^H^HCodegear users are upgrading to Delphi 2007....
Eventually it will become more and more common, but don't hold your breath. It won't go away.

Re:Hmm (-1, Flamebait)

Himring (646324) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883727)

Repeating a lie a thousand times will not make it true.

Disagree. Or do you believe the holocaust really did happen?...

Re:Hmm (0, Flamebait)

pallmall1 (882819) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883777)

...but not slowly than Ubuntu users are upgrading to the last Fety thingy
Linux users are not forced to upgrade like Windows users are.

Re:Hmm (2, Insightful)

Apocalypse111 (597674) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883925)

Consider the following...

Windows ME

That is all.

Cue Knee Jerk (-1, Flamebait)

WED Fan (911325) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883527)

Now, all of the knee-jerk Anti-MS guys have to get new keyboards after their collective orgasms when they see this as a sign of Microsofts soon-to-be demise.

Re:Cue Knee Jerk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883587)

I don't see any anti-MS people. They're not here to gloat because they know EVERYONE loses when people are stupid like this. If half of the people in the world wanted to use DOS, we'd have a major problem on our hands.

Re:Cue Knee Jerk (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883597)

Whereas you shills already have sperm-resistant covers
on your keyboards, just in case you catch a glimpse of
monkey-boy Balmer on MSN (your homepage).

Don't squirt on me! Yuk!

Remembering the Windows XP days: it wasnt this bad (5, Interesting)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883561)

I remember there were a lot of naysayers regarding Windows XP, back when it was introduced, but WinXP did well, in spite of the fact that Win2K already had what companies needed. Probably because WinXP at least wasn't a huge downgrade, compared to Win2K.

Not so with Vista. My impression is that is't a downgrade. What with the stupidly slow file copy problem, the increased hardware requirements (even if you disregard the graphics card), the DRM, the need for (some) staff re-training... This time the anti-momentum is stronger than with XP.

Re:Remembering the Windows XP days: it wasnt this (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883609)

XP made a killing on the fact that consumers were fed up with the 9x line. Particularly, WinME. The disaster to end all disasters, which was still probably worse then what Vista currently is.

Re:Remembering the Windows XP days: it wasnt this (4, Funny)

mpe (36238) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884191)

XP made a killing on the fact that consumers were fed up with the 9x line. Particularly, WinME. The disaster to end all disasters, which was still probably worse then what Vista currently is.

I've heard Vista called "Windows ME v2" :)

Re:Remembering the Windows XP days: it wasnt this (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883839)

The thing I noticed the first time I used XP was it did not seem to broken. Some of the UI decisions were different than I would have made, but it did work. It was like the first time I used NT, except that NT was probably not consumer prime time game playing ready.

XP is a version of Windows that I could get behind, as it generally was OK. Just like Windows 95.

I am not sure if vista does anything interesting. The way it was promised two years ago was compelling. I am not surprised they were not able to make the dream come true.

Re:Remembering the Windows XP days: it wasnt this (5, Interesting)

daeg (828071) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883845)

The retraining and hardware requirements were the exact excuses I used to start brining Linux into my offices, one computer at a time. We don't have any special software or anything (just Firefox and Microsoft Office, which I am gradually replacing with OOo). Instead of paying $1200 for a decent office computer that can run Vista smoothly, I can pay $600 for a computer with Linux compatible hardware and know I won't have to upgrade for a good long time. The training is going much smoother than I anticipated, actually, and thus far, I've had several employees ask if I could help them run Linux at home (pointed them at the local Linux users group, naturally).

Why buy expensive hardware and retrain everyone after paying over a thousand dollars per seat (Vista + Office) when you can buy a cheaper, more reliable computer? And the best part of the deal? All those shitty downloadable Windows "games" can't be installed!

Re:Remembering the Windows XP days: it wasnt this (4, Insightful)

Cygfrydd (957180) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883893)

... and, of course, XP was terrifying until SP2.

The difference (4, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884073)

When XP came out, I looked at it, considered it shiny, didn't care about shiny, looked again, saw that it was essentially as good as 2k and that I can turn off the shiny and still can get a few additional features out of it. It did not remove anything essential that I was used to in 2k, and it ran as fast as 2k, so I eventually switched.

When Vista came out, I looked at it, considered it bloated, cared about bloated, looked again, saw that it was worse than XP and that even with the shiny and bloated turned off, it's no better than XP and still slower. It did take away a few liberties that I came to enjoy in XP, and so I will never switch.

If XP doesn't work anymore, I will move on to another OS. Wine is hopefully ready to run at XP level by the time I have to go, so I know where my next home will be built.

Re:Remembering the Windows XP days: it wasnt this (3, Interesting)

justthinkit (954982) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884099)

the stupidly slow file copy problem

I am going to go out on a limb and theorize that this "bug" is a deliberate act. It reminds me of IBM in the mainframe/terminal days, where they added delays to ensure that response time was always 2 seconds. And for average users it is good to have average response times -- if you give them a fast one for some things and a slow one for others, they will notice and whine.

In this case I think something much more potentially sinister is at work. Vista has introduced a "copy lag" that can later on (once we have all accepted the lag) be used to scan files for 1) malware, 2) DRM reasons, 3) do other things we don't want Vista to do.

Saying that I wouldn't put it past them is an understatement.

Massively Reduced, Prices Never To Be Repeated (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883565)

In case you don't get 'those' Persian rug ads where you are, there's a couple of superb 'Chaser' [youtube.com] satirical [youtube.com] sketches [youtube.com] on it on Youtube.

*Until midnight tonight!*

If this was Apple... (0, Redundant)

soulhuntre (52742) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883575)

It would be spun as a tribute to how cool they are and how much they love users.

You know, people can write blog posts about Microsoft being dead, and Slashdot Zealots can spend ANOTHER (its been what, 6+ now) giving each other hand-jobs about how "desperate" Microsoft is... and it won't change reality a bit.

Welcome to the FUD zone!

Re:If this was Apple... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883751)

FUD changes reality.

There have been whole wars started just because of words that turned out being FUD when it was too late.

Re:If this was Apple... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883823)

No, listen, there really were WMDs in Iraq. If they would just have let us torture a few more people, we'd have found them.

GWB

The curse of Vista... (5, Interesting)

Krinsath (1048838) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883577)

From what I've heard the major problem with Vista is that it was designed by committee with dozens of people involved in even the most minute aspects. The problem with that of course being that that more people = more compromise and a compromise is, from one viewpoint, simply a solution that leaves everyone equally unhappy. From my testing of Vista and reading the various feedback threads, I think that's been an excellent tagline for Vista thus far...the OS that will leave everyone equally unhappy with it.

The culture at Redmond simply looks like it's gotten so insulated from this "reality" thing that they're sliding into a world where they don't understand that most people do not like the OS. The OS is a required evil to get to what they actually want, which is the applications. The faster the OS gets to those applications and gets the hell out of the way, the better...for most users at any rate. Why this concept seems to elude OS designers is beyond me, but Microsoft needs to come to terms with the idea that when I sit down at a computer to check my email, I want to use my email program, not the OS. If I want to play a game, I want to play the game...not work with the OS. If I need to write something, I want to write...not deal with the OS. It's quite simple really, which is probably why they don't get it.

Re:The curse of Vista... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883783)

Everyone I know loves it, you can shut up now.

Re:The curse of Vista... (5, Insightful)

MontyApollo (849862) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883909)

As an average user, I really don't see what the complaints are about Vista. Average consumers really don't care that much about the operating system to begin with. As you said, they care about programs.

I recently built a new computer and went ahead with Vista because I could get OEM pricing now but maybe not in the future, and I already had copy of XP that I could dual boot. For routine everyday stuff Vista has been fine; I have XP set up in case I play around with any programming, but I find myself always using Vista. One of the main advantages I noticed with Vista is that for some reason the fonts are more readable on my 22" wide-screen in native resolution than they are in XP. It also doesn't seem to have the weird window re-draw problems. In general the display just seems to work better for me.

Like all versions of Windows, there is no reason for the average consumer to upgrade an existing computer - just wait until you get a new computer. The new computer will likely be equipped to better run Vista too. Vista will eventually take over because of this, like XP did. I have never understood why people would think a majority of average consumers will want to go out and spend money to replace their operating system that is working fine without going ahead and getting a faster, newer computer with all the latest hardware. Instead, it seems to be big news that people are showing some since and waiting.

Re:The curse of Vista... (3, Interesting)

lubricated (49106) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884229)

>> Like all versions of Windows, there is no reason for the average consumer to upgrade an existing computer - just wait until you get a new computer.

Windows xp over 98/me was a huge improvement and there were plenty of reasons to upgrade.
98 over 95 was a good upgrade as well.
95 over 3.1 was also a good upgrade.

This is the first time that there really is no reason to upgrade.

But how long will this go on for? (1)

rushmeat (972949) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883591)

Because there is a "Carpet Liquidation!" that's been going on near me for over 2 years... Same stickers, same adds. I figured' they'd be out of business by now... Then again, Jobs probably thought the same thing...

Oh shit... Maybe I should buy some Capital Carpet stock now?

Re:But how long will this go on for? (1)

zehrila (1093577) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883693)

hmm, hopefully as long as all beta guys have purchased new license or when MS is assured they dont have any more bugs left in the os :D

What the hell? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883601)

Was this article even reviewed before getting posted?

I mean, look at the prices TFA says Vista is selling for. "Most people running any Vista preview will be likely to head for the Home Premium, Business or Ultimate skews -- which sell on their own for $455, $565 and $751..."

Uh, no they don't! Home Premium costs $240, Business costs $300, and Ultimate costs $400. The real stand-alone prices are less than what the article says the upgrade prices are ($299, $379 and $495).

This article is major FUD and bullshit.

Re:What the hell? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883667)

This article is major FUD and bullshit.

This article is in AUD [wikipedia.org] , not FUD.

Re:What the hell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883719)

You seem to be quoting the student/educational prices. MS knows how to do differential pricing.

Re:What the hell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18883949)

UK prices, converted to USD

Home Premium : $440
Business : $560
Ultimate : $740

From amazon.co.uk, undiscounted prices. Looks like
the Aussies are being slightly more ripped off than
us Brits. Blimey!

Re:What the hell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18884161)

And your being ripped far more than the USA as the prices posted above are the correct ones for the USA. Best Buy and Newegg.com both sale full retail versions for around $400 or less.

One quarter using Vista? (1)

Deviate_X (578495) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883639)

"One quarter of the 612 survey respondents said they were already using the new OS;" - i find that quote more interesting 25% claim to be already using vista seems to be a very high for something just released.

Re:One quarter using Vista? (1)

Askmum (1038780) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883803)

Especially when the same article mentions that Vista has a "2.04% share of the OS market".
If 25% of businesses were using it, than businesses would only attribute, what, 5% of the total OS market?
I find that very hard to believe.

Re:One quarter using Vista? (2, Informative)

greginnj (891863) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883877)

You are absolutely right; that leapt out at me too. I thought it was much too optimistic, then I realized that whoever wrote the question was bending over backwards to make Vista sales numbers seem bigger.

My theory is that the 25% of companies who say they're currently 'using' Vista mean something like, "Brad Gladhand, VP Sales, called us the day after release and insisted he needed a new laptop with Vista installed so he could play DVD videos during sales presentations and not feel embarassed by out of date hardware... so yes, I guess we're using Vista already".

The real question that should have been asked would be something like "Is Vista currently the OS on your standard desktop build?" (i.e. that all new hires get, or that replacement machines come with). And possibly, "If it is not currently, will Vista become part of your standard desktop build within the next 12 months?". My guess is that the answer to the first question is less than 3%. Our shop is so conservative that we only went up to XPSP2 in the last 12 months; before that we just got SP1+targeted patches.

Re:One quarter using Vista? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18884127)

i find that quote more interesting 25% claim to be already using vista seems to be a very high for something just released.


If you actually read the article carefully it says that they will accept Vista in the forthcoming year!

By the way, I never trust these low number statistical polls/articles where they do not tell how the poll was taken.

Companies will can XP when it goes out of support (3, Interesting)

davidwr (791652) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883653)

The question is, what will replace it?

With projects line Wine and Mono, hopefully 5 years is enough time to eliminate all MS XP/Vista dependence for their home-grown apps.

At that point they can choose a vendor-supported OS based on price and the quality of the vendor, not vendor lock-in.

Within 5 years companies will want their OSes to be portable across hardware. If a generic-box-PC fails they'll want to take their HD out of the failing generic-PC box and put it in another generic-box-PC which may have a completely different CPU and motherboard. If you try that today with XP you run all kinds of risks and it might not even boot. In 5 years companies will use OSes that can tolerate this or put them into a "thin-layer" VM environment to make all their generic-box-PCs look identical enough to eliminate this problem. Think Southwest Airlines and the way they "dumb down" their newer 737s so the entire fleet "looks identical" to their pilots.

Re:Companies will can XP when it goes out of suppo (2, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884147)

Don't get your hopes up.

Whether it works or not, whether it's more stable or not, no manager will jump into that cold pond. Let's look at a manager's brains (bring your microscope, kids!) and see how it ticks.

The manager will ponder what course to take. Should he buy Vista and accept the lock-in, or should he go Linux with Wine, take the road of liberty? This, dear reader, matters little to him. What matters to him is, that his superiors will never ever fire him for buying Vista. Because it's the tried way, and if it doesn't work out, hell, how should he have known? If he buys Linux and Wine, even the slightest problem that may occasionally occur will make his comfy chair shake, because he left the tried and true way of upgrading and decided that some unproven methodes are better.

Now, which path will our manager take?

Nuts pricing (5, Interesting)

pubjames (468013) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883661)

I think one of Microsoft's big problems has they have overpriced the boxed versions of Vista. It is a crazy state of affairs when my local computer shop is selling complete PCs cheaper than the boxed versions of Vista.

Apartment buildings? (2, Interesting)

coleopterana (932651) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883679)

Are they perhaps more like apartment buildings always under the threat of demolition that sign you to nonbinding, shorter, cheaper leases because you never really know when the wrecking ball might be out front? The cheapest and, relatively, nonsketchy place we found to live in Mountain View was like this.

ZOMG (2, Insightful)

Chicken04GTO (957041) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883681)

Microsoft is adjusting prices to meet demand? Every sane business does this.

ZOMG get the torches and lets march!

Why buy new? (3, Interesting)

eltoyoboyo (750015) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883685)

When slightly used will do? This is the mantra of a local exercise equipment dealer here. You save a lot of money that way.

In the computer world, the question is Why buy the operating system, when you can get a new capable computer?

Amazon is listing Windows Vista Home Premium for $218, slightly less than the US$239 retail. For another $300 you can get a fully capable PC with it with 1GB of RAM and a suitable video card to get a 3.0 on the performance scale.

This particular market is skewed at moving PCs, not selling operating systems.

Re:Why buy new? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18884093)

I know I'm breaking the spirit of your post by saying this, but with that $300 computer, you could install XP and have it run pretty fast!

Re:Why buy new? (2, Funny)

RealSurreal (620564) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884175)

Why buy new when slightly used will do?

Depends on whether you're buying toilet roll or not.

Re:Why buy new? (1)

Zenaku (821866) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884195)

Except when the prices are this good! ;)

holes (0, Redundant)

iiii (541004) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883695)

Hey, this Persian rug I just bought seems to have several holes in it!

beta close time frame doesn't sound right at all (1)

psbrogna (611644) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883701)

"betas will start expiring and becoming non-functional from May 31st"

It's been my experience that MS Windows "beta programs" are actually over around 1 month prior to the next version coming out. I think that's why Windows upgrades leave a bad taste in my mouth- right around the time I've settled in to the latest version (ie. I can start using it profitably without having to combat immature code probs), they start asking me money for the next version.

Saw Vista For The 1st Time At The Weekend.... (2, Informative)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883705)

...after one of the relations bought a new laptop with Vista on it and asked me to help her set up wireless.

Okay, so I'm an experienced computer user who already finds the default XP GUI tiresome, bloated and patronising and therefore always puts on the "classic" Windows view - but I found Vista was even worse. Don't get me wrong, it's very pretty and once I found the applications that I was looking for, no different to configuring XP (at least as much as I could see).

However, whilst we got the wireless working fairly easily, there were too big unforeseen problems that my relation suffered:

1. She has a legitimate 3 PC student licence for Office 2003 and has used only one of those licenses on the family desktop PC so far. Vista would not accept the license key for Office 2003 no matter what I tried and in the end I had to tell her to call Microsoft to get them to sort it out.

2. There are no drivers for her Lexmark printer and Lexmark have no plans to release any.

So, overall, I cannot say I was particularly impressed with Vista - it's got some quite nice eye-candy but not a lot else going for it.

Re:Saw Vista For The 1st Time At The Weekend.... (2, Insightful)

Billosaur (927319) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883857)

However, whilst we got the wireless working fairly easily, there were too big unforeseen problems that my relation suffered:

1. She has a legitimate 3 PC student licence for Office 2003 and has used only one of those licenses on the family desktop PC so far. Vista would not accept the license key for Office 2003 no matter what I tried and in the end I had to tell her to call Microsoft to get them to sort it out.

2. There are no drivers for her Lexmark printer and Lexmark have no plans to release any.

  1. Well, Microsoft wants Vista users to upgrade to Office 2007, so this is no surprise. I suspect MS Tech Support will get it to work, though you can bet she'll be subjected to the "hard sell" the whole time.
  2. That's Lexmark's particular problem. If true, it shows how short-sighted they are. Even if you don't like Vista, you have customers who will use it, and if you choose not to support you printers on Vista, you'll see those users go to someone else who will. Not good business strategy.

Printer drivers... (1)

cpotoso (606303) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884119)

That is why one should stick to PS or at least PCL printers...

Re:Saw Vista For The 1st Time At The Weekend.... (1)

Mortanius (225192) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884097)

2. There are no drivers for her Lexmark printer and Lexmark have no plans to release any.
Not to nitpick (well, okay, yeah to nitpick) this isn't (necessarily) Microsoft's problem, but Lexmark's.

Does Vista have no drivers at all for Lexmark printers, or just not for this particular model of printer? If they have none at all, then yeah, that kinda sucks, but if they just don't have the driver for a bleeding edge / stoneaged printer, that's not too unexpected. With Lexmark stating they don't plan on releasing Vista drivers for it, I would assume the printer is the latter, though that is based on absolutely nothing at all, so don't hold me to it. :-P

How pratical can it be to hold out? (4, Insightful)

HighOrbit (631451) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883747)

"Extended Support" for XP will be until April 2014. So that is seven years. But long before that seven years, some hardware (some with XP from 2001) will start to die. The replacement hardware will be sold with Vista. Even if the replacement is 'naked' or wiped and installed with XP, some of the devices may not have XP drivers. Also some of the user software that runs on XP will probably become unsupported or abandon-ware before 2014.

I think the talk of holdouts 'never' installing Vista is bravado. Sooner or later they will be compelled to start supporting Vista or its successor (Blackcomb/Vienna). Maybe they will skip Vista and go to straight to Vienna (provided Vienna gets out the door before 2014, IIRC it is currently scheduled for 2009), but they can't stay with XP forever. The hardware and software won't allow it.

Re:How pratical can it be to hold out? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18884007)

They could always upgrade to Linux

Apple (1)

Nicolay77 (258497) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884159)

If I have to buy a new computer and leave XP then I will probably buy a Mac.

No need for Vista at all.

Re:How pratical can it be to hold out? (3, Informative)

AnyoneEB (574727) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884209)

You are forgetting something: ReactOS [reactos.org] will be in beta by then according to their roadmap [reactos.org] , "meaning a system which is suitable for every day use." At which point, users wanting to get off an aging OS will be able to move to ReactOS instead of Vista. Even if ReactOS moves slower than their roadmap predicts, it will be ready well before XP extended support ends in 2014. (You left out Linux, so I assume we are talking about Windows-like OSes. Significant improvements in WINE and the Linux desktop experience could nullify the necessity for a Windows-like OS, but that could be a long way off.)

Re:How pratical can it be to hold out? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884221)

Drivers for a system will exist as long as the majority of people run that system. No hardware vendor can afford to be incompatible with a sizable portion of his target audience.

Re:How pratical can it be to hold out? (2, Interesting)

deanc (2214) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884231)

My impression is that "never" meant "We are not going to upgrade to Vista as it currently exists." In a couple of years, Vista may be patched to the point where it is considered worth upgrading, but those IT survey respondants are implying that they're not going to make any plans to upgrade before that point.

In fact, I feel the same way about upgrading to Vista on my own window machines.

How about a name change? (2, Funny)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883779)

Microsoft "hasta la vista" (TM) :D

Yet again, slashdot tries to have it both ways (4, Insightful)

mumblestheclown (569987) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883785)

People: it's time for a bit of intellectual honesty.

Either:

A. Microsoft is a giant evil behemoth that has created for itself a permanent and insurmountable monopoly that needs to be curtailed through government intervention and snide slashdot comments. Microsoft could shiat on a brick and most IT departments would have to buy it. The agreements that it makes with computer manufacturers to pre-install its product, which typically costs about 10% of the actual cost of the PC, is fundamentally wrong.

OR

B. Microsoft is a company that, despite the existence of free-as-in-beer alternatives, has nevertheless managed for many years to become fabulously wealthy by delivering products that seem to be what the market wants. However, as this episode shows, they are neither invincible nor infallible - like all of the software giants that have come before them, despite at one point building an enviable market position, they will erode through some combination of changing technology, bad marketing / product decisions, and so forth. Furthermore, as we see from Dell's (among others') recent actions, computer manufacturers can and will tailor their operating system offerings as they feel the market warrants - Microsoft can no more afford to lose dell than vice versa.

Works for me :) (3, Insightful)

NickFortune (613926) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883957)

People: it's time for a bit of intellectual honesty.

Oh goody! Can we start with the false dichotomies [wikipedia.org] , please?

Re:Yet again, slashdot tries to have it both ways (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18884047)

OR

C. Different people on Slashdot have different opinions.

Re:Yet again, slashdot tries to have it both ways (2, Insightful)

DevNova (24921) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884123)

OR

It's a combination of both. A company who started off by delivering what the market wanted and over time, found itself with agressive business models that took advantage of their position to further their market dominance.

Indeed, it was Windows that gave Microsoft the monopoly. It's very difficult to build a monopoly on applications, but designing a GUI for a prevalent OS where its success is more or less dependent on being universally adopted? Yeah, you're going to take some pretty ballsy steps to ensure that happens.

Ignoring History (5, Insightful)

ChaoticCoyote (195677) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883789)

The same things were said about Windows XP. And look where we are today...

It might surprise the Slashdot crowd to know that *some* people like Vista. I do. I'm no MS fanboy, and I've cursed Bill Gates so many times its become a household cliche -- but the reality is, Vista is just fine. I use it every day, 10-12 hours a day, and my only complaint is the annoying slowness of file copies. Vista has a number of nice features that improve on XP.

Will I upgrade the other four machines in my office? Heck no. The Linux machines will remain with Gentoo; the Windows XP and MCE systems will not be upgraded any time soon. That doesn't mean I hate Vista, or nor did it fail because 80% of my computers are staying with their current OS.

Just like 2000 and XP, Vista works best on a new system; upgrading is always a mess, because vendors want to sell you today's tech instead of supporting what you bought last month. So the older systems stay with what works, and the new computer runs Vista (very well, I might add).

It's popular and trendy to hate Microsoft and Vista; heaven forbid you should think for yourselves.

Re:Ignoring History (1)

Omicron32 (646469) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883985)

My sentiments exactly. If I had modpoints, you'd get more than one.

I like Vista. I moved away from Linux to use Vista. I've recently been looking at the development tools on Windows and, compared to their Linux counterparts, they're impressive. Ballmer was a dick, but his "Developers, Developers, Developers" thing was quite right.

Windows offers some nice development tools and a generally consistent environment. It's much easier to develop for Windows than Linux and until that is fixed Linux isn't going to take over the world...

Re:Ignoring History (1)

Apocalypse111 (597674) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884063)

It's popular and trendy to hate Microsoft and Vista; heaven forbid you should think for yourselves.
No, there's plenty of intelligent reasons to hate Vista too - UAC, poor security, driver incompatibilities, file-copy bullshit, file access times, and performance issues to name a few off the top of my head. If you look you're sure to find plenty more.

Re:Ignoring History (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884077)

The same things were said about Windows XP. And look where we are today...

I see a small difference between XP and Vista. XP require modest upgrades to function and there were significant changes that users would want. Vista offers small changes for most users on their current hardware. To get the maximum benefit, users would require major upgrades or new PCs. XP also benefitted from the people buying PCs for the first time. Five years later many people now own PCs and are not as likely to buy a new one when the current one works just fine.

Heavy system requirements may also be causing business and consumers to shy away from Windows Vista, at least for now. To experience all of Vista's features, PC users need a computer with at least a 1-GHz processor, 1 Gbyte of memory, and a 40-Gbyte hard drive. That's far beyond what's required for routine business computing tasks like word processing, running a spreadsheet, or sending e-mails.
By contrast, Windows XP Professional requires only a 300-MHz processor, 128 Mbytes of RAM, and a 1.5-Gbyte disk.

From what I remember the XP specifications were for minimal requirements. Good luck on actually running anything on a 300MHz with 128MB of memory with XP. By contrast, the minimum to run Vista is 1GB, 1GHz.

Re:Ignoring History (2, Funny)

OpenGLFan (56206) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884173)

It might surprise the Slashdot crowd to know that *some* people like Vista.

Nope. Dude, the Internet gave birth to Furries. I am no longer shocked at what *some* people like.

Better deal.... (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883791)

The CompUSA near me (Framingham MA), and many other CompUSA stores are closing. I was there last night. They had a cage, and another display packed full of Vista. All editions including upgrades, over 100 copies total, and they were 60% off. If you need Vista for some reason, a defunct CompUSA is probably your best bet right now.

This isn't that big of a deal (2, Insightful)

steelcobra (1042808) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883797)

Just Microsoft telling people who've clung onto the beta versions that they can keep using it without paying $400. And as to the 30% figure, there are a ton of companies still using Win2000pro.

Home Basic (3, Interesting)

rlp (11898) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883917)

It would be interesting to see what percentage of Vista sales were for 'Vista Home Basic' (i.e. the bare minimum default MS OS that vendors put on new boxes). It would be more interesting to know what percentage of those boxes get wiped and have XP or Linux installed on them.

(snif) you don't have predatory pricing with linux (0, Flamebait)

swschrad (312009) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883927)

the only way to look at vista is DOWN...

Beta testers can upgrade? (1)

fusto99 (939313) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883989)

This doesn't make sense. They are offering upgrade pricing to anyone who downloaded the beta version of vista. However, they already gave a free, fully licensed Vista Ultimate copy to everyone who downloaded the beta.

Interesting move. (2, Informative)

ErichTheRed (39327) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883997)

Microsft knows they're going to get people to upgrade. Unless there's _major_ pushback from corporate IT, XP and previous versions of Windows will go end-of-life on their scheduled dates. When that happens, you lose patch and fix support, which means your desktops are unprotected. Any IT person who runs Windows knows that's a dangerous gray area. There are still a couple of die-hard places running NT4, but it's not for general use and the admins keep tight control over the system.

So yes, Microsoft will eventually get their revenue. Dumping 17 years of Windows-based code and processes for Linux or any other OS is just too tough a sell in most large companies. I'm not a big Vista backer either, but you have to keep up with the times. I'm playing with it while supporting XP and 2003 in our environments. It would be foolish not to.

No way... (1)

Snotman (767894) | more than 7 years ago | (#18883999)

I am not sure what business this article is talking about, but big business will update or move to another OS it can get support for. Eventually, Windows XP and 2003 will EOS and that will push corporations to move because they generally want support for everything.

A better statistic is how many desktops this 30% represents. I am guessing that this 30% of businesses does not represent 30% of business' desktops. That would be a better number, not this FUD. And I am not a MS fanboy as a Java developer.

I'd love to switch to Vista, but... (1)

ubuwalker31 (1009137) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884035)

I'd love to switch to Vista, but I can't because Q-media, the company in charge of shipping Vista CDs for XP upgrades for Cyberpower, has taken my $10 shipping fee, and has not shipped Vista to me, despite a phone call and a promise to do so. What gives? Has anyone else tried to upgrade to Vista, but been stymied by 3rd party companies who aren't shipping disks?

Desperation? (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884045)

Why is that indicative of "desperation"?

For those not introduced, the beta/RC's are about to expire, and that was the plan since at least a year back or so. Now they're announcing the plan the people affected by this can follow.

DESPERATION. :-p

I' more on the... (1)

Chris whatever (980992) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884079)

"All stock has been slashed, save $$$, why pay more?'"

Why pay at all.....

Where does Bill want you to go today... (1)

ibm1130 (123012) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884227)

When Microsoft decides enough is enough they can force a changeover to Vista by making it impractical to continue with XP ro whatever version of their poison one is using. When Vista is all there is the cash will flow as it must. So says Bill....

The real problem (1)

hexed_2050 (841538) | more than 7 years ago | (#18884251)

The real problem with Vista so far is actually quite simple:

1. System administrators are currently testing the software with their environments. As of yet, not a lot of people completely understand the inner workings of UAC and the other nice, and not so nice gems that are new in Vista when it pertains to security and administration.

2. Businesses have learned their lesson with XP. Do not upgrade until the bugs are worked out and the hacks have been made public.

Do you really think that people are going to wait another 3 years without upgrading to Vista? Wait until the CEO plays around with the neat little side bar that shows him a constant slide show of his latest golf tournament in .

h
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