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New MySpace China Tells Users to Spy on Each Other

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the everyone-wants-to-be-friends dept.

Censorship 158

Anonymous Chinese Coward writes "MySpace has launched in China, the world's most populous nation, but this definitely is NOT the MySpace you're used to. Members are told to click a button to report any 'misconduct' by other users. MySpace's definition of 'misconduct' includes actions such as 'endangering national security, leaking state secrets, subverting the government, undermining national unity, spreading rumors or disturbing the social order' — according to the site's terms and conditions. In China these are all crimes which carry a hefty prison sentence. Any attempt to post content containing phrases that the Chinese government doesn't like, such as 'Taiwanese independence', the banned 'FaLun' religious movement or the Dalai Lama, produces the following message. 'Sorry, the article you want to publish may contain inappropriate content. Please delete the unsuitable content, and then try reposting it. Thank you.'"

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Free Speech (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18910415)

I'm sure they can say it in a free speech zone.

Re:Free Speech (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18911689)

Just outsmart the PROC "Big Brother" and go netspeak...

fR33 teh D0lLi3 Llah-mAh Tie-W0n N-dee-P3ndEnc3 F@L00n FTW!!!!1111oneoneone

Re:Free Speech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18912515)

now do it in chinese...

Not as censored as you think (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18912563)

Well, with only skimming the site with searches in English I've already found multiple [myspace.cn] examples [myspace.cn] of pages that are not, in fact, censored. Maybe this article is full of shit?

Do they allow private profiles? (1)

palindromic (451110) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910429)

Even if they do, I bet they can be hacked by chinese.

I... (2, Interesting)

NayDizz (821461) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910447)

I hope they catch as much crap for this as Yahoo and Google have for their apparent misconduct on their Chinese counterparts.

Re:I... (1)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910475)

Definitely. I wonder, will they be reporting those who commit misconduct to the Chinese police? Or will they quickly cover it up and only forward any relevant information if subpoenaed?

Re:I... (3, Funny)

Ohreally_factor (593551) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911573)

Well, the silver lining is that Chinese users will be able to report really crappy MySpace page designs to the Graphic Design Police.

Re:I... (1)

l0cust (992700) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912475)

Are you nuts? Its a win-win situation! If people don't follow that stupid advice then its a win for the free speech people. On the other hand, if Chinese Government really has its way and people start screwing everyone over for legit/non-legit reasons then soon the Chinese Myspace will be as popular as an underground pet cemetery. Then ofcourse the US Government do a Keanu Reeves and go "Woah! I bet we can do it better". Then the big brother minions will start going through the MySpace pages one after another and after a couple of days either go blind or crazy, or both.

MySpace ftw!

Lol... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18910451)

Coming from a county who's idea of law enforcement are execution busses where the driver is judge, jury and executioner and ALSO harvests organs from the bodies of the dead, this one autta be a fun one.

They don't solve their own crime issues, they make it worse by killing innocents and leaving the real rapists and murderers to run amok. This forces the population to look after their own, and makes them strong, which makes issues for a central government that runs amok, especially when your people have weapons.

I predict the government won't know what to do...especially when I can make a bot to press all the buttons 5 times a second :O.

Re:Lol... (1)

Elad Alon (835764) | more than 7 years ago | (#18913039)

Where did you get all this bullshit?

On which country... (1, Interesting)

camcorder (759720) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910465)

On which country on the earth these are totally free actions? That's not specific to China, they just want to control it, which is fine. Every country have their own regulations to protect their own sensitivity to a matter. In US it's racism, in Europe it's mostly ethnical discrimation of genocide. In China their worries are different due to their history. There's no such a country which would let people to do some action to broke nations unity. Yes it's censorship. Yes it is annoying to some. But that's the price of living whealty. That's the price of surviving with limited resources. If anyone thinking wars, which created those worries, are due to greed of people, then those are either fools or the ones behave like that. All wars are due to survival instincts of people. You might not have problems today, but you need to think your future as well, else our bodies won't store any energy, will it?

Re:On which country... (0, Offtopic)

dwater (72834) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910493)

How on earth did the parent get rated 'redundant'??? It's the first post!!!

To the people who modded the parent redundant... (-1, Redundant)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910871)

... maybe he would be less redundant, if people would stop modding the first post redundant! Of course, they don't actually believe that the post is redundant, they just like modding down people based upon their point of view, rather than the value of their argument.

Naturally... (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911469)

... complaining about the moderators results in a modding down. I wonder why I could have thought anything different.

Re:On which country... (1)

ZackSchil (560462) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912983)

When you have mod points and you see a post like the grandparent, you don't really know what to do. It needs to be modded down because it's factually inaccurate trash, but there's no option that would indicate "factually inaccurate". It's not a flame or a troll, redundant or offtopic, it's just... wrong. I'll generally go for the "Overrated" option, but only because it takes away from the score without citing an incorrect reason. It sucks but what else can you do?

Re:On which country... (2, Insightful)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910507)

On which country on the earth these are totally free actions?
"undermining national unity" to start with. I could go on to "spreading rumors" but there's not much point.

In US it's racism
Really? Is saying something like "all niggers are fags" result in punishment from the government in America? Wow. America's even worse then I've heard. Or else you're full of shit.

Re:On which country... (1)

Ohreally_factor (593551) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911951)

Really? Is saying something like "all niggers are fags" result in punishment from the government in America? Wow. America's even worse then I've heard. Or else you're full of shit.
You might get a thank you note from the G.N.A.A., in lieu of punishment.

However, if you said, "all niggers are fags, so we have twice as many reasons to kill them", that would considered a hate crime, and you could be prosecuted for it.

Re:On which country... (1)

rstultz (146201) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912145)

No, if you said "all niggers are fags, so we have twice as many reasons to kill them" and then killed one, then it would be considered a hate crime, and you could have an increased sentence for the crime. But if you just said it and did nothing to kill them, no crime. Now, of course, if you said it to a large crowd, and said "Go out there and kill them now" that would be inciting violence, and you could be charged.

Re:On which country... (2, Informative)

morcego (260031) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912369)

In that specific case, the killing part would be the crime.
In some other countries (Brazil among them), any public and offensive racist statements can lead to civil action/prosecution, or even jail time.
Example: If I own a shop, and I say to someone "Get out of here nigger" and force that person to exit my shop, I can be arrested.

Re:On which country... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18910605)

Are you actually chinese? It's possible you're believing your government's propaganda about other nations...

There's no such a country which would let people to do some action to broke nations unity.

This is complete rubbish. In fact, in european societies, it's considered healthy to allow people *try* to break "unity" (so long as it doesn't endanger people's lives) - if unity remains in the face of such challenges, then it's strong. If it doesn't, then there was no unity worthy of protection in the first place. Yes, this means europe is virtually incomprehensible to bizarrely conformist chinese - don't worry, the feeling is mutual.

Re:On which country... (3, Informative)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911115)

Being a public nuisance is punishable (though usually just a misdemeanor) in most western countries. While "disturbing unity" is usually only claimed by communist countries and militaries (not limited to communist militaries) other countries usually just use different terms to the same effect and if you do anything the police doesn't want you to do there's a good chance that they can take you in at least for a few days.

Re:On which country... (5, Insightful)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910619)

Yes it's censorship. Yes it is annoying to some. But that's the price of living whealty. That's the price of surviving with limited resources.

Whilst I agree with you partly, I think the reason people are aghast at these kinds of news reports is because suppressing debate, perpetuating fear and generating an 'us and them' culture prevents China from advancing to become a liberal society (liberal as in beer.. or something).

Oppression doesn't have to be the price of surviving with limited resources. Part of the reason China remains poor and in many respects a 3rd world nation is precisely because it has a stupid system of government. It is an oligarchy, it remains a totalitarian state. I'm not saying China has to be a 'Democracy' like, for example, Canada, but anywhere in the world you find the absence of a meritocracy, you have this problem. The US is no shining example anymore of promotion on the basis of merit, either.

On the other hand, anyone who wants to point the finger at China had better sweep in front of their own door first. Everyone's liberties are being eroded at this time, and we all must fight the fight on our own turf.

Re:On which country... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18910793)

"Poor and 3rd world nations" aren't usually associated with being near the top in GDP and certainly not at #2. In several years, given current trends, China will become the largest economy in the world.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rank order/2001rank.html [cia.gov]

Re:On which country... (3, Insightful)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910841)

Try putting that in terms of GDP per person.

Re:On which country... (4, Informative)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911149)

Hugeass countries always have more GDP than small ones. Size matters, Liechtenstein has a GDP of 1.7G$ while Ethiopia has 69G$ yet noone would call Liechtenstein poorer than Ethiopia. Same for comparisons between the US and Europe, each European country is much smaller than the US and as such doesn't rank nearly as high but combined they are CAPTAIN PLANET, errr, a freaking huge economy.

Re:On which country... (1)

alexjohnc3 (915701) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911965)

Hugeass countries always have more GDP than small ones. Size matters, Liechtenstein has a GDP of 1.7G$ while Ethiopia has 69G$ yet noone would call Liechtenstein poorer than Ethiopia. Same for comparisons between the US and Europe, each European country is much smaller than the US and as such doesn't rank nearly as high but combined they are CAPTAIN PLANET, errr, a freaking huge economy.
Taiwan, ironically, has a higher GDP than most countries (the 18th highest), and yet it's pretty small (the 137th largest country). Therefore, Taiwan has a higher GDP than big countries like Kazakhstan.

Re:On which country... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18910655)

Say or write the wrong thing?
get Shanghaied, Even if you live in Peking

Re:On which country... (4, Insightful)

joto (134244) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910665)

On which country on the earth these are totally free actions?

I'd like to think every single one except China. But since I can't say that with 100% confidence, let's just say: The vast majority.

Every country have their own regulations to protect their own sensitivity to a matter. In US it's racism, in Europe it's mostly ethnical discrimation of genocide.

Bullshit! Nobody in US has ever been jailed for being a racist. Why do you think Ku Klux Klan still exists?`And whatever you mean by "ethnical discrimation of genocide", I can't even start to guess, as it makes no sense at all.

In China their worries are different due to their history.

Such as being an oppressive communist state, with only a farcical political facade that tries to imitate representative democracy.

Yes it is annoying to some. But that's the price of living whealty. That's the price of surviving with limited resources.

Make up your mind. Are they wealthy, or are they surviving on limited resources?

If anyone thinking wars, which created those worries, are due to greed of people,

I fail to see what you are getting at here

else our bodies won't store any energy, will it?

Now, I really fail to see any meaning at all. Please consider therapy.

Re:On which country... (3, Informative)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911161)

I'd like to think every single one except China. But since I can't say that with 100% confidence, let's just say: The vast majority.

Don't forget that there's more to the world than the west and I'd wager by numbers the unfree (military dictatorship, monarchy, theocracy, one party "democracy", etc) outnumber the free.

Re:On which country... (5, Insightful)

porpnorber (851345) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911539)

Interesting. The parent is modded 'insightful.' Perhaps this is some strange new meaning of the word, of which I was previously unaware.

No, contrary to your belief, many countries do have banned religions. Many countries do watch seperatist movements sufficiently carefully that speech about them is (whether because of censorship or self-censorship) far from free. Many countries do have charismatic figues whose presence they do not tolerate and whose influence they seek to diminish. Even if you see Europe and America through rose-tinted glasses, surely you aware of the more politically intense parts of Africa, Asia, South America? Or perhaps you are unaware that there are even reasons for concern about Zimbabwe, Myanmar, and parts of the Arab world? (Where do you get your news?)

I admit I am not an American, and I may not have all the details of American history right, but I have the distinct impression that being, for example, a black supremicist has not, over the years, been condicive to one's personal freedom. And today, even white racists keep quiet about it. No, I agree, it does not normally get one jailed; but it certainly get one fired. And in (otherwise very calm and pleasant) parts of Europe, yes, public holocaust denial will get you locked up.

You may argue that there is a difference of degree, or a difference in emphasis; and I will agree with you. I am not apologising for China. But the person you are replying to is entirely right: China is not, as you would like to believe, unique merely in controlling speech.

Now as to Chinese history. Perhaps you are unaware that China has a history. Rather more of it than the USA. Go look it up. The person you are responding to is again right: China does indeed have a history of thousands of years of attempting to maintain coherence of a huge and disparate empire through rigid control. This has at times been startlingly successful; at other times undeniably catastrophic. The current no-longer-communist regime is just the last of many. Chinese history and chinese attitudes are indeed different from American ones.

Finally, you seem to have an objection to the juxtaposition of the phrases, 'living wealthy' and 'with limited resources.' How quaintly American. Wealth is caused by waste, is it? That attitude is not one that will see you among the leaders of the world for very long, and thankfully it is not one that the entire rest of the world shares. Wealth can arise from managing what you do have, wisely; or from waste and theft. Civilisation lies in choosing the former path. 'Living wealthy' with limited resources is not merely consistent, it is a laudable goal towards whch we should all strive.

None of this is to defend the original post; but your attack on it is impressively off-target. Certainly not everyone's English is as good as yours. Thankfully, however, many people are better informed and more charitable.

Re:On which country... (1)

Plutonite (999141) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912225)

Perhaps this is some strange new meaning of the word, of which I was previously unaware.
It's like doubleplusgood, but in another way

No, contrary to your belief, many countries do have banned religions.
Yes, we call them totalitarian states, and an unhealthy number of them have been communist. Ditto for discussion of banned groups. In the Free World(TM) people can discuss what they want as long as it doesn't contain libel or slander, and even then the party concerned is the one expected to take legal action against you, not Big Brother.

The current no-longer-communist regime
Err, what? But I thought we were always at war with Eastasia?

Finally, you seem to have an objection to the juxtaposition of the phrases, 'living wealthy' and 'with limited resources.'
Yes, and he's right. Wealth implies excess; abundance; luxury. Sadly that correlates with waste in many places. But the 4 year old kids making plastic cups in the shanghai factories are not wealthy, not matter how efficiently they manage their hapless rewards, and no matter what big brother tells you about how great everything is, and how much more "wealth" for the "people" we have generated this year over last year.

'Living wealthy' with limited resources is not merely consistent, it is a laudable goal..
What limited resources, comrade? Did you not hear: our supply of corn, beer, and cars has grown 20% over the last year! Seriously though, your usage of quotation marks suggests strongly that you doubt your own understanding of the word wealth, not the parent's.

None of this is to defend the original post
Of course not, comrade. The truth(TM) does not need to be defended! Minitrue is there only to make sure the truth gets out, because it is as you said:

charitable

Now be charitable to yourself and read 1984 or Animal Farm. Just don't tell your friends on myspace, it is.. unwise.

Re:On which country... (2, Insightful)

catxk (1086945) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910667)

I don't see how declaring racist behaviour illegal compare to the anti-governmental censorship this article is about. One is about stopping certain people from attacking, mentally or physically, people of various ethnicities etcetera, and one is about protecting a government from its own people, which by all means should be a contradiction in terms. I see how the first, stopping Nazis for example, is problematic since it is indeed a constraint on democratic principles, but then again, it's no where near the same league as what you're defending. So please stop it, it's embarrassing. And as far as MySpace goes, yeez, what are they thinking? Where are the morals? Grr!

Re:On which country... (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910699)

In US it's racism, in Europe it's mostly ethnical discrimation of genocide. In China their worries are different due to their history. There's no such a country which would let people to do some action to broke nations unity.

I'm going to do something that I haven't been able to do much lately, and that's defend the U.S. While the current administration is cheerfully chipping away at the Constitution, we still do have pretty broad protections regarding speech. In the US you can't discriminate because of race, but racist speech isn't against the law. Compare this to most of western Europe which is a lot harsher on free speech.

Re:On which country... (1)

the_lesser_gatsby (449262) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910851)

I dunno. In Europe you don't hear of many schoolkids arrested for writing an essay...

Re:On which country... (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911067)

Well you don't hear of many schoolkids being arrested here for writing an essay. There are occasional acts of police, prosecutor, and school administrator stupidity, but You get that everywhere. [dailymail.co.uk]

Re:On which country... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18910989)

In Europe the laws on free speech are less relaxed than in the US, but unfortunately for you laws protecting freedom and actual freedom do not necessarily co-oincide. For example in the UK, it is illegal to incite racial hatred, presumably it is not in the US. But does this really affect the ability of the people to have a sensible democratic debates? Not really, arguably it protects political debate from descending into a racial slanging match. In the US if tried to suggest that banning firearms was a good idea you would find how free your speech actually is. Sure you are free to say "ban all guns", but that 'freedom' would be paltry consolation to the personal attack you would consequently suffer.

In Europe we have a more pragmatic and flexible approach to freedom of speech and democracy in general, rather than sticking blindly to an outdated constitution whether or not it genuinely protects your freedoms in any way.

As for China, they have enough problems without having 1 billion angry citizens rushing government buildings with pitch forks so it is rather futile to expect them to change any time soon.

Re:On which country... (1)

edward2020 (985450) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911321)

Remember the McLibel case that occured in the UK?

Re:On which country... (2, Insightful)

thebdj (768618) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911027)

On which country on the earth these are totally free actions? That's not specific to China, they just want to control it, which is fine.
A hell of a lot more then you know. No it is not fine; it is oppression.

Every country have their own regulations to protect their own sensitivity to a matter.
Please enlighten us.

In US it's racism, in Europe it's mostly ethnical discrimation of genocide.
Well, you failed to enlighten. There are no laws in the US that prevent you from saying racist things. Racism is taboo, but it sure as hell isn't illegal. Racist speech (and other "hate speech") is actually illegal throughout large portions of Europe. I would talk about your Europe example but that sentence doesn't even make sense.

In China their worries are different due to their history. There's no such a country which would let people to do some action to broke nations unity.
Again, bullshit. Many countries have suffered political revolutions and civil wars and have the freedom to discuss this history and not just talk about it using the government spin. These things are also used as a means to prevent revolution, which is the real reason they want to keep people quiet; they fear that with truly free discourse their government wouldn't stand a chance.

Yes it's censorship. Yes it is annoying to some. But that's the price of living whealty. That's the price of surviving with limited resources.
Censorship is not just annoying to some, it is a violation of human rights [wikipedia.org] . Human rights violations are actually something China has had issues with for quite some time and is still criticized for. And which is it, wealthy or poor (limited resources?)?

If anyone thinking wars, which created those worries, are due to greed of people, then those are either fools or the ones behave like that. All wars are due to survival instincts of people.
Where did you get that bullshit? The American Revolution was about survival? It was the people of the Colonies tired of the oppression they believed they were receiving from the British. The could've survived they decided to fight for their independence. The American Civil War was a battle of states rights, taxation, and slavery (to boil it down to the basics). The south has managed to survive post-Civil War and probably could've survived without it. Survival wasn't the reason. You would have to be pretty naive to think some wars were not out of greed (or some sort of manifest destiny). Read about the Mexican-American War [wikipedia.org] sometime. Of course there are also people who think "The Iraq War" [wikipedia.org] is based on greed (particularly oil). You will have a hard time proving that either of those wars were about "survival".

You might not have problems today, but you need to think your future as well, else our bodies won't store any energy, will it?
Proving once again that your sentences are poor. WTF are you trying to say? This entire piece reads like some sort of Chinese propaganda. You start by saying, look everyone else does this too. Then you give some bad examples, hoping people will accept them. Then you attempt to defend it again by proclaiming it is related to history and national unity. You admit it is censorship then stumble through calling it simply annoying, but say it is the price you must pay for living rich (or is it living poor). You then toss war aside as a matter of survival only, ignoring the fact that war is not always about survival alone. Then you have some statement that doesn't make much sense at all, maybe it sounds sort of good in propaganda-speak.

Re:On which country... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18912755)

Human rights? HUMAN RIGHTS? Probably put together by a bunch of sissy men tired of getting their lunch money taken from them. Here's something taken from your almighty wikipedia:

"One way out of the cultural imperialism and relativism debate is to argue that the body of human rights exists in a hierarchy or can undergo derogation. The relationship between different rights is complex since it can be argued that some are mutually reinforcing or supportive. For example, political rights, such as the right to hold office, cannot be fully exercised without other social and cultural pre-requisites, such as a decent education. Whether the latter should therefore be included as a first-generation right is a debated point.

However, it can be argued that the idea of human rights is not entirely universal, and to impose them universally may have harmful consequences. Western developed states often stress the need for a negative rights construct while the developing world seeks a more positive rights construct. In regards to progress in human rights, "institutions are more written in the "hearts of the people" (which cannot be changed overnight) than in the pages of law books. Changing the de jure institutions does not by any means imply a transformative change in the de facto institutions and norms that govern long term behavor" (Ellerman 102-103). Without internal motivation, external leverage can hamper local human rights progress."

Your view of human rights probably differs from the sado-masochist that lives in his grandmas basement and kidnaps little boys [and he still goes to church every sunday!]. In that regard it's quite possible that China's view of this so-called human rights, if that is what you so-call it, differs from the rest of the world.

Re:On which country... (1)

coaxial (28297) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911899)

On which country on the earth these are totally free actions?

The vast majority of the elections, for the vast majority of the people, for the vast majority of the time. Sure there's occasional irregularies here and there in every election, but in the end they're incredibly minor local affairs.

That's not specific to China, they just want to control it, which is fine. Every country have their own regulations to protect their own sensitivity to a matter. In US it's racism, in Europe it's mostly ethnical discrimation of genocide.

There's no such laws in the United States. They are unconstitutional. That's what Free Expression means. You have every right to make as big of a jackass as you want to out of yourself. That's not to say expression is absolute. As they say you can't yell fire in a croweded theater, unless of course there's a real a fire. Or as the cliche goes, "you're right to swing your fists ends where my nose begins."

In China their worries are different due to their history. There's no such a country which would let people to do some action to broke nations unity.

Unity can't be forced. It must come from within.

Yes it's censorship. Yes it is annoying to some. But that's the price of living whealty.

It's Bread and circuses [wikipedia.org] . No one cares about free expression as long as they've got their gucci handbag. Don't rock the boat, I've got an ipod.

The CPC did it. They successfully converted from a Communist state into the run of a the mill oligarchy. Kudos.

So? (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910469)

Many countries (the UK certainly does, and perhaps the US too) have schemes where you're rewarded financially for telling the police about anyone who's up to no good.

Re:So? (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910625)

Many countries (the UK certainly does, and perhaps the US too) have schemes where you're rewarded financially for telling the police about anyone who's up to no good.
But will the police prosecute you if you failed to tell them someone was up to no good? That's what could well happen to those who failed to push the button on someone in China.

Re:So? (1)

ettlz (639203) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911145)

But will the police prosecute you if you failed to tell them someone was up to no good?
I believe so in the UK if it pertains to terrorist activity.

Re:So? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911211)

Depending on the crime that can be considered conspiracy so yes.

Re:So? (1)

nightwraith22 (1037202) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911893)

But in the UK and US, police don't care about those who "subvert national unity" or talk about "taiwan independence"

Re:So? (1)

bradavon (1066358) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912413)

You make out the police shell out cash for any offence, it has to be serious and even then not all the time.

As for this news, sadly yet another company has sold out to put more money in their greedy pockets. My Space is overrated dross anyway, no one who users it has any clue about aesthetics (or what the world probably means). One page for your entire life, gaudy graphics and ghastly music, clutter heaven.

Companies such as Google and My Space should be doing the opposite and vocally speaking out against such Chinese criminal behaviour. It's scary how many companies and governments bow over to blatant laws that prohibit human rights and free speech.

It's even more scary that one day the most powerful country in the world will also be the same country that actively does this!

Why use chinese services at all? (1)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910479)

Since the Chinese equivalent of most services are so perverted as per the governments requirements Don't be evil, why are they used at all. Not sure how MUCH safer it would be to use MSN messenger vs tencent QQ, for example, since i'm sure MS would hand any information over as soon as it was requested, but chinese language versions of most online services are out these, and at least the servers can't physically be ceased.

Those last two, "spreading rumours or disturbing the social order" are vague enough to include absolutely anything.
I look forward to slashdot.cn with moderation options -1 Endangeringnationalsecurity and -1 Godirectlytojaildonotcollect200RMB

Re:Why use chinese services at all? (1)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910515)

Parenthesis got removed from "Don't be evil" making it look like a total non-sequitur

not only in china (1, Troll)

lorg (578246) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910483)

... 'endangering national security, leaking state secrets, subverting the government, undermining national unity, spreading rumors or disturbing the social order' -- according to the site's terms and conditions. In China these are all crimes which carry a hefty prison sentence.
Leaking state secrets, subverting the government etc are more or less considered crimal or treasonous acts everywhere not only in China and these acts always carry hefty prison sentences or even death. But then this is China so I guess it's ok to say just about anything and get away with it, GOGO objectivity!

Re:not only in china (1)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910525)

Leaking state secrets, subverting the government etc are more or less considered crimal or treasonous acts everywhere not only in China
I'm guessing the etc are less considered crimal, yes? Or can you point to the relevant laws which deem the following illegal: * undermining national unity * spreading rumors * disturbing the social order

No, you don't understand. (2, Interesting)

rumith (983060) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910593)

Probably the most important thing about censorship [both at Myspace and internet search engines] is to make it voluntary by making rules as vague as possible. People already know what they shouldn't discuss if they don't want to land in a jail: questionable religions, rumors involving military, other sensitive things that matter for the government. So the whole message is "Here's a new cool site; the rules are as usual".

Re:No, you don't understand. (0, Troll)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910659)

questionable religions,
Really? Got any cites? Or did the media not cover it for fear of landing in jail as well?

Re:No, you don't understand. (1)

rumith (983060) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910791)

Falun Gong. The Chinese government considers it harmful and tries to block it. Regarding the media coverage: last time I cared, in 2001, Newsweek had a pretty decent coverage of the matter.

Re:No, you don't understand. (0)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911311)

Sorry, I thought you meant in America (as that's what we were talking about in this particular thread, how it happens in places other then China, such as America).

Re:No, you don't understand. (1)

jozmala (101511) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911549)

Christianity.
If you don't count the state allowed version, that bans preaching to non-members. And teaching of second coming of christ and several other requirements, like that the state chooses the priests, and it preaches communism more than christianity.
It is more or less pro communist party front for westerners to show tolerance to religion.

Its motto is. "Love thy country and christianity."
The christian motto is "Love God more than anything and thy neighbour like thy self".

Re:not only in china (1)

Plutonite (999141) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911853)

Do you think state secrets, and serious talk of government "subversion", are going to happen on a 14 year old's Myspace page?

This looks more like typical totalitarian despotism being exercised freely in Red China. They want that button to be there always, in front of everyone. The constant temptation to become a hero by turning someone in for anything that resembles discontent. You see, in commie states (and other totalitarian ones) the government disallows the concept of changing power. Therefore even peaceful, non-threatening attempts at voicing opinion are immediately painted as radical and similar to treason. The culture is enforced further when you become capable of being "heroic" by participating in the crackdown. In this disgusting case, they are extending the idea even to Myspace pages and probably soon to chat rooms, so that the offhand comment/joke against the government is seen in the same light, and can be reported in the same way.

In civilized, Free nations (not that the US is a shining e.g anymore) the public alerts the authorities when a serious threat to national security is perceived (bomb..etc) and the authorities investigate and act accordingly. You cannot alert the authorities when you discover somebody is "unhappy" or disrupting the "unity" by arguing against something in a civil manner. Pluralism is the goal, not enforced "unity". The only unified agreement is in the preservation of the rights that make that pluralism possible.

 

Re:not only in china (1)

flyingsquid (813711) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912231)

Do you think state secrets, and serious talk of government "subversion", are going to happen on a 14 year old's Myspace page?

Like OMG I was on the phone with Tiffanee and I told Tiffanee that I liked Brad Hoefler and then Tiffanee was all like LOL and went and said that I liked Brad on her Myspace page even though she TOTALLY knew that like I didn't want ANYBODY to know, especially not Brad, and now Brad won't talk to me and Amber and Mandy are all like making fun of me and it's just like totally embarrassing me to death and it's just ruined my WHOLE LIFE, like even more than the time my stupid parents gave me a curfew, and I can like hardly stand to go to school anymore and I think that I told Tiffanee that I liked Brad Hoefler should be a state secret so I'm like TOTALLY in favor of this.

Re:not only in china (1)

kebes (861706) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911983)

Yes, just about every country has laws against treason, and they are serious laws, applicable when someone really has given away state secrets (e.g. sensitive security information, the location of weapon stores, etc.). So while China saying "please let us know if anyone is guilty of treason" is reasonable in principle, the actual execution of the request makes it obvious that what they mean by "treason" is actually "anything we don't like." Do you really think that treason happens so frequently (on a Myspace page, no less!) that we need a special web-button for reporting it?

Creating an efficient, formalized, and widespread system for reporting traitors can only mean that you are considering a very large percentage of your population to be a traitor. This ceases to be about any real acts of treason--it becomes about labeling as a 'traitor' anyone who opposes the ruling status quo. In short, it is about oppression, control, and spreading fear among the people.

Being objective doesn't mean ignoring the details of each case. You cannot just take China's word for it when they say "this is only to find traitors and protect our country"... you must also look at their actions, which instead suggest they are trying to restrict the free expression of ideas in their land, and that they are trying to co-opt the populace to monitor one another.

Registration bots? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18910485)

Wouldn't it really annoy the chinese government if there was a botnet that, say, registered and posted inflammatory material as entirely fictional "users"? Thousands upon thousands of them?

Wonder how intelligent the matching is - in english you can often evade automated stuff by writing "f \/ c k" instead of "fuck" etc. Wonder what the equivalent for chinese would be - ascii art of the ideograms?

Re:Registration bots? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18911037)

Use the Japanese technique of "gal-moji"-certain Japanese katakana characters resemble character radicals. Put two together (that's hwat half-width Katakana typing in the IME is for) and you get a character. If both don't exist in the katakana set then type one radical in katakana and the other half using the Chinese IME.

Tit for tat (1)

davmoo (63521) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910499)

The phrases and keywords that are considered "bad" may be different, but this is no different than the policies currently in place by the regime in Washington, DC. King George rattles on about threats to national security, activities that are unpatriotic, etc, every time someone goes against him. The only difference between the current US Government and the Chinese government in this respect is the Chinese government doesn't hide the fact that they're doing it.

Re:Tit for tat (2, Insightful)

AlexMax2742 (602517) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910521)

Name one person who was locked up soley because of something critical they said of the president.

Don't get me wrong, he's incompetant and his entire administration is crooked, but if the US was really like the Chinese, you would be in jail right about......

*knock knock*

Oh shi....

Re:Tit for tat (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910597)

No, in Amerika instead you get locked up for pissing off the corporations. DMCA anyone? Who's that russian dude who got locked up? etc...

I won't pretend that what's going on in China is "ok," but let's not pretend that we have a totally open society here. Well in the USA anyways. Canada still has some rights left :-)

Tom

Re:Tit for tat (1)

philwx (789834) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910697)

Eh, this seems to be a tinfoil fantasy that has not yet been fulfilled in the US. I'm not saying there hasn't been an erosion of rights, but I am saying that I have 0 fear of saying something political on myspace, and having repercussions from it. Now I bet you can split hairs and say that if I said something about a terrorist act I could draw unwanted attention to myself. Since I have no interest in such activity, I consider that 0 risk also. Bottom line, I simply do not have any fear of a political discussion, online. Whether pro or con of the government.

Can we stop trying to deflect the issue to some US parallel that doesn't really exist and focus on the significance of it for once? Yeah, there's a real problem over there. I'd worry about the one over here, when what I said above doesn't hold. But until that time, we should actually be concerned for people in other countries who do not have it so good and cannot speak up for themselves.

What can we do? I have no idea. It seems to be hard to get people to stop buying their goods, all we can do is make an effort on the personal level to do that.

Genius (4, Funny)

6Yankee (597075) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910529)

Thr real genius here isn't in the addition of the button per se, but rather in putting it in front of emo kids.

"I don't want to live any more, I'm going to end it all! *clicks on own Myspace button*

As opposed to what ? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18910549)

MySpace's definition of 'misconduct' includes actions such (...) or disturbing the social order'

And how is this different from writing up an essay and getting busted for misdeamnor ? SLashdot article from a few hours/day ago. [slashdot.org]

Re:As opposed to what ? (1)

dgbrownnt (1012901) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912135)

And how is this different from writing up an essay and getting busted for misdeamnor?

1. People have been freely critisizing that since it happened.

This is is exactly the freedom that they're blocking

2. It's noteworthy as an exception as opposed to the rule

The arrest raised social concern because it was a deviation from the freedoms that we as Americans expect (as opposed to standard operating business)

So? (1)

bokane (36382) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910557)

So? These are standard terms of service for any online service in China. The keyword filtering, likewise, is standard -- and if Myspace weren't doing it, the Great Firewall would be blocking access to the site every time the filter got tripped. So how is any of this newsworthy?

Time to be constructive (5, Insightful)

Kizor (863772) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910571)

This is nothing we haven't seen before and nothing we won't be seeing again. The Chinese government will go to great lengths for its powerlust and especially to protect itself from the people, and every year the march of technology hands them more power. So what can we do about it? Making brooding, cynical posts is the usual M.O. and the generated online badwill has no doubt brough them to their knees. [penny-arcade.com] How can we do what little we can to end this obscenity?

Run Tor?
Join Amnesty International and buy some of their nifty hoodies [amnestyusa.org] ?
Hold a public protest?
Boycott Chinese goods (yeah, right)?
Organize a fuck-off massive online attack and hammer on the Great Firewall? [wikipedia.org] ("one of the most important projects for ensuring its political power..." indeed.)

Help me out here.

Re:Time to be constructive (1)

wealthyaffiliate (1094589) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911279)

Well, I think that this is a nice way for users to control what they want to see. If they dont like what they see, they will report it. So no need to get to think so much about it or organise public protests? It is the public which will be reporting the persons and they could just not report anything if they wanted to. What would be the use of public protests? Thats just my 2 cents worth. bye, faraz. author of Who Loves Money [squidoo.com]

Re:Time to be constructive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18912013)

How about shut the fuck up and mind your own country?

Brilliant (1)

WiseWeasel (92224) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912561)

I'm going to have to agree with the anonymous troll on this one. It's not our place to worry about the freedoms of Chinese people (unless you're posting from China). If things get bad enough, they'll have to revolt and toss out their own leaders. We can't intervene each time we disagree with how leaders are running their countries. It's the responsibility of the citizens to keep their leaders in check.

Re:Time to be constructive (1)

bitRAKE (739786) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912419)

Honest open communication.

(Unless your a highschool student and your teacher specifically requests it.)

What do you expect from Murdoch? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18910609)

You can always trust a Murdoch owned company to whore out completely and totally to anyone that asks if there's money to be made, none of that namby-pamby google-style conscience here.

Re:What do you expect from Murdoch? (2, Funny)

sjwest (948274) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910737)

Well not much

Mind you i never expected that myspace contained state secrets (a leak this secret button), so i do hope his journalists and editors refuse to use mysapce as a source of stories just in case.

Re:What do you expect from Murdoch? (1)

hansamurai (907719) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911901)

Does that mean that China has a Page Three Girl section now in its newspapers?

Re:What do you expect from Murdoch? (1)

ssintercept (843305) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911907)

since when is common-knowledge 'insightful'?

The US version (0, Redundant)

ebonum (830686) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910617)

Get over it. http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/ Stocks_I/threadview?m=tm&bn=9010&tid=436554&mid=43 6554&tof=3&frt=2 [yahoo.com] Look for "Report Abuse" Yahoo! in the US has the same bloody thing. Until they arrest someone or go beyond kicking the person off the site, this is not news.

Jerry Wang would be proud (1)

BillGatesLoveChild (1046184) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910705)

> 'endangering national security, leaking state secrets, subverting the government,
> undermining national unity, spreading rumors or disturbing the social order'

I'm speechless. No, literally!

Zonkisms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18910771)

I wish the look-at-the-others-stories passed by Zonk had a button to increase journalism.

Unstable (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910825)

It's not a sustainable stable solution to the censorship, it helps China save face and claim it still has control. I suppose those who wants to share information freely already use anonymizers and encrypted traffic.

You can't detect/censor encrypted traffic, unless you ban all of the encrypted traffic.

China will open up, but by the looks of it, it'll be a slow and painful process (pun not intended).

Re:Unstable (1)

giorgiofr (887762) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911877)

Actually, I believe that in China https traffic must be authorized and your keys deposited at some gov't-controlled entity. It is then possible to detect unauthorized encrypted traffic (because it can't be decrypted) and ban *that* specifically. Not in real time, of course.

I can't imagine... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18910941)

...a country in which citizens are told to be vigilant and watch out for suspicious people who may be up to no good. A country where someone could go to jail for something they wrote, whether on a myspace page or as part of a creative writing assignment. I'm sure glad I don't live in such a country.

Number 1 National Chinese secret (2, Funny)

killminus90 (1094581) | more than 7 years ago | (#18910977)

Most of the rest of the world has it better!!!!!!!!!!!

everybody is doing so -- for different reasons (1)

bunytu (1086757) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911039)

While I agree that those topics should be openly discueed, the idea of "Tells Users to Spy on Each Other" is hardly a new thing. Every free upload website has a small button to report "inapproate" content like expilicit, violence. And in physical/real life, isn't it called community watch?

Re:everybody is doing so -- for different reasons (1)

KoldKompress (1034414) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911231)

[Obligatory]
Yes, but in Soviet China, you watch the (MySpace) Community!
[/obligatory]

Is it really MySpace... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18911257)

Is it really My Space if China has control over it?

Re:Is it really MySpace... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18912643)

what about MaoSpace, sounds good to me?

Re:Is it really MySpace... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18913033)

Of course, because China has control over you too.

On the other hand, in Soviet Russia control you China too because.

So... (1)

djupedal (584558) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911687)

"Members are told to click a button to report any 'misconduct' by other users."

Ah, right - same as Craig's List and....and...and...on & on. How is this a problem?

In someone's weak mind, maybe - in reality, no.

Re:So... (1)

CokeJunky (51666) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911949)

You can't go to jail for exercising free speech on CraigsList. The worst that will happen is your account is closed.

Re:So... (1)

DaMattster (977781) | more than 7 years ago | (#18911993)

Ah, right - same as Craig's List and....and...and...on & on. How is this a problem? In someone's weak mind, maybe - in reality, no.

Well, let's just say that,"Members are told to click a button to report any 'misconduct' by other users." does not quite have the same connotation in China as it does the United States. The primary difference is that by reporting misconduct in China, you are essentially placing that person's freedom and very existence in jeopardy by inviting a visit by the National Police. Here in the United States, Craig Newmark simply removes the post, and as long as the said post does not violate the law, nothing happens. The definition of a crime in China is intentionally left very broad and up for interpretation. Therefore any simple criticism or perceived criticism can result in arrest or detention. This is a very important and serious distinction that cannot and should not be marginalized.

Re:So... (0, Troll)

djupedal (584558) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912079)

"Here in the United States, Craig Newmark simply removes the post..."

Who said anything about CL US..?

That statement, coupled with a singular proclivity for instantly making this a 'US' versus 'China' debate, indicates a leading bias that can, at best, cloud any further comment. Not a very good position to speak from if one wishes to be taken seriously, sorry.

"This is a very important and serious distinction that cannot and should not be marginalized."

And the very reason the undistinguished and marginalizing quote was singled out, thank you. Now clear your head, drop the boxed-in thinking and you'll be fine.

Hypothetically.... (1)

Travelsonic (870859) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912027)

If there are formattting tags that can be inserted into the myspace profiles/blogs, what would stop people from writing one of the forbidden words or phrases, and putting empty tags inbetween the words to fool the filter since the tags don't show up? I mean, if a forum filters the word "shit" , it is possible to type out "sh[b][/b]it"* and have the word come put uncensored, it's a matter of making it work in this situation.

How is this new or in any way different? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18912517)


"Dear User:

If you see any content that is likely to be perceived as causing offense to someone on behalf of their race, religion or beliefs, national background, gender or sexual preference, please report it here. We will take swift action and cooperate with law enforcement where appropriate. We are proud to have received the "Online safety and inclusiveness" award from a coalition of 15 leading universities for our work in ensuring this environment is safe and welcoming for everyone.

We will also in the coming months be looking to implement a system for validating user identities. How to do this in a reliable and easy way is still being discussed, but you can be assured that the details would be kept very secure at a third-party non-online location and only accessible to officials with the proper legal authority"

China just emphasises the 'rights' of the country as a whole not to be insulted or offended, while Western movements and ideologies emphasises the 'rights' of individuals. In both cases however breaching those rights leads to exclusion from the site and lots of personal inconvenience and even direct bodily pain, from various parts of organised state movements and law enforcement, organised nongovernmental ideological movements and/or individuals taking action.

If people can restrain themselves from offending individuals in the West, I am sure they can manage to restrain themselves from offending the state in China. Besides, it is only crass and offensive remarks that are disallowed, not academic discussion, unless of course the academic discussion goes into unwelcome territory.

All patriots happily report... (1)

rewinn (647614) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912793)

...any instance of ungoodspeak [wikipedia.org] to the Ministry of Love [online-literature.com] . So what's the problem?

Man I hate this company (1)

afroloop (603664) | more than 7 years ago | (#18912837)

I did not think I could hate Myspace more than I do already. I guess I was wrong.

ebellionray (1)

Snarkhunter (1056150) | more than 7 years ago | (#18913047)

reeFay ibetTay!
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