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Show Office 2007 Who's the Boss

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the not-tony-danza dept.

267

jcatcw writes "Microsoft knows how you like your Office Suite. You like Ribbons ... they're a given, right? Well, if not, Computerworld reviews some third-party packages that allow you to customize the software's interface. Classic Menu gives you an Office-2003-like set of menus. It'll help you navigate old menu structures to find favorite commands, but don't expect to use all the familiar keyboard shortcuts. ToolbarToggle lets you customize the menus. However, Classic Menu has two advantages over ToolbarToggle: It's available for PowerPoint today, and it includes Office 2007 commands on its menus, a modification you can't make to ToolbarToggle menus. RibbonCustomizer works within the Ribbon's own constraints to let you change the display of icons and commands on existing tabs or any new ones you create."

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267 comments

Well, (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921329)

Ebat menya v rot!

Microsoft said to be OFFERING to BUY Adobe (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921351)

Microsoft said to be OFFERING to BUY Adobe !!! Holy bat dung

office clippy (-1, Offtopic)

eneville (745111) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921359)

can you customise the clippyness out of it? http://blogs.sun.com/marigan/entry/how_the_vi_edit or_would [sun.com]

10 years ago called (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921377)

in soviet russia, the joke wants you back

Man, just get used to it (4, Insightful)

Overneath42 (905500) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921407)

Seriously, why do people fear change so much? The new Office design is much better than any previous version, in my opinion. No more hunting around in nested menus trying to find features - everything is right there in plain sight. Sure, there's a learning curve, but is it really so steep?

I think there are valid complaints about Office 2007 (namely, the new .*x format, which has tripped my fiancee up more than once in trying to print papers at school after typing them at home), but the design shouldn't be one of them.

Re:Man, just get used to it (3, Interesting)

Chacham (981) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921477)

why do people fear change so much? The new Office design is much better

It's not that we fear change. It's that we're sick of relearning everything every couple years. Offer a new interface? Sure, just please don't take away the old one.

Re:Man, just get used to it (4, Insightful)

Poorcku (831174) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921661)

this was the first Office UI change in how many years?

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921823)

Hey, it's not really the year value that they are complaining about, it's that EVERY version of MS Office that comes out causes the learning curve problem. Yes, if MS would only release new products once per decade, it wouldn't be so bad, now would it, but that's not the case. Every new release brings a learning curve with it, so 'every couple of years' is not such a bad estimation.

While we are at it, why don't some of those people use the learning curve time to learn something new instead... like OpenOffice.org and get off the MS merry-go-round?

Re:Man, just get used to it (2, Insightful)

ditoa (952847) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921851)

Sorry but thats bull. The only "learning curve" is the new features. The regular word processing features were in the same place from Word 6.0 all the up to Word 2003. That is at least 10 years of the same UI.

Re:Man, just get used to it (3, Informative)

statusbar (314703) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922137)

Relearning? Most people I know who demand Microsoft Office do not even use or understand styles!! They would be better off with Wordpad!!

--jeffk++

I have 13 years invested in the old interface (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18922189)

While the "relearning" comment is a bit of hyperbole it is mostly correct.

I have nearly 15 years invested in the old interface. I read the "Working With Word 4 for Mac" book cover to cover when I got my first Mac in '94. I now use Word 2003. I KNOW the Word interface, and I am damn good at it.

And then MSFT decides to take all that knowledge and throw it out the window for me. Yeah, I can do the same stuff, but now I have to figure out how to do the same stuff. Sections, Styles, bookmarks, merged documents, field codes ... fucking field codes, all a huge investment in learning how to do correctly. They are all still there, somewhere somewhere in the ribbon interface.

If you hit the spacebar 20-30 times to get a line indented properly (which is admittedly most people) the ribbon is great for you. If you know how to use a tab-stop, it is a fucking mess.

Fine, you want the ribbon make it the default. But leave me the ability to work efficiently like I used to. Removing my ability to see the menubar (even it was a RegEdit) is just plain rude. This is just as bad a when we had to switch from WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS to Word[Im]perfect for Windows.

The above also pertains to Excel, et al. But Word is where I spend me time.

Now as for Word changing every version, mostly is stays the same, but the one place it does change EVERY TIME is the menu mnemonics. Every version of Word has a different key mnemonic (that character that is underlined in the menu). And sometimes MSFT likes to change around the CNTRL-? codes too. For those of use that like to keep our hands on the keyboard (efficient [although not always accurate] typists) running to the mouse is a pain.

Re:I have 13 years invested in the old interface (2, Interesting)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922239)

For those of use that like to keep our hands on the keyboard (efficient [although not always accurate] typists) running to the mouse is a pain.
You're not making any sense. You favour keyboard shortcuts and don't like using the mouse, but you complain that the mouse-driven part of the interface has changed? If you don't like using the mouse, then don't use the mouse and stick to the keyboard -- all the old keyboard shortcuts work exactly the same as they did before (yes, even the alt+x+y accelerators).

Re:Man, just get used to it (2, Insightful)

thc69 (98798) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921575)

No more hunting around in nested menus trying to find features - everything is right there in plain sight.
You haven't actually tried to use this crap, have you? Everything presumably is right there in a jumbled mess of tiny unintuitive icons, grouped in some weird way, with a default ribbon (or front piece of a ribbon, or whatever) that comes back after you do one command once. I can't find a damn thing.

Drop-down menus have been around so long because they work!

If, for example, I wanted to change how I was looking at stuff, I'd click on the "view" menu and my command would be right there, spelled out in english text. What hunting around? It never took me more than two clicks to find the command I wanted. Now it takes me anywhere from ten seconds to ten minutes, after which I give up and find somebody that's got an older version.

I hope that ClassicMenu works on Access, because I have a project to do for my database class...okay, after reading TFA I think I'm SOL. :( How am I ever going to figure out how to do the silly crap I'm supposed to do?

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

r3m0t (626466) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921635)

If you want to change how you're looking at stuff in Office 2007, click on (gasp!) the "View" tab, which is a larger target for your mouse and easier to spot than the old "View" menu. There are your options, with more contrast to indicate the currently selected option, and larger thumbnails to demonstrate each one.

The only exception is the zoom slider at the bottom-right.

I still think the new format is much better. And trust me, people - it won't change significantly in the next version of Office.

All the methods of bringing the old menus to Office 2007 are awful. Stop holding on to the past - it will just get more inconvenient. Either keep Office 2003, or move to Office 2007 proper. It's not like changing your holy keyboard.

Re:Man, just get used to it (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921831)

>Either keep Office 2003, or move to Office 2007 proper. It's not like changing >your holy keyboard.

Or you could put your opinions up your keister since thats what its worth.
Im saying that only because pinheads like you think their opinion somehow holds more value.

I think this is a perfect apps to add to 2007 because it lets you configure it HOW YOU WANT IT.

I shouldnt have to relearn to use a word processor.
Hell, most stuff I write can be done in a Notepad quality program.
I want to write, not bake a cake.

Windows was pretty easy to teach to people because FILE-EDIT-VIEW dropdown menus are identical in almost every program so Im sure this is gonna be a boon for people who teach people computer 'skills'... yup, that's what they call someone who teaches Office or Outlook.

Ask anyone who has worked in an office environment (not geeks) and they'll tell you that most people use very basic functions like bold/font/size, bullets, formatting and mail merge. That's it. The last thing you want is for them to start wasting their time learning something which will NOT increase their productivity.
The only thing that people should spent time doing is learn how to type properly instead of hunt and peck (yes, I know some people can type real fast with two fingers but they are exceptions) since it does increase your speed. Our company offers free lunch time classes and the results have been excellent.

I dual boot into XP yet I have the theme set for the classic look without the ugly blue bar. That's a personal choice.
Just like these softwares.
No one forces your to use the ugly blue bar in XP and no one forces you to use this software yet pinheads like you still love to tell people what is better for them.

I personally find it silly that one of my coworkers has an OS X skin on his windows machine but if that's what he likes... good for him.

Good for these companies recognizing there is a demand from people who either dont like change or just dont want to be bothered.

Learn to respect them buttmunch.

Re:Man, just get used to it (4, Informative)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922001)

Ask anyone who has worked in an office environment (not geeks) and they'll tell you that most people use very basic functions like bold/font/size, bullets, formatting and mail merge.
Looking at the only concrete examples you actually include in your post: bold, font/size, bullets, and all the rest of the formatting options are in exactly the same place as they always were, and all the old keyboard shortcuts to them still work. The only one out of your list that's changed is Mail merge, which is now in "mailings" rather than the old, generic "tools" -- much, much more obvious than before. And the old keyboard accelerator for it still works.

Re:Man, just get used to it (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921983)

> easier to spot than the old "View" menu

Wait, let me see if I've understood you correctly. Are you honestly claiming that the view menu was hard to spot?!?! Surely you jest? It's listed near the top of the screen, along with a small number of other drop-down menus, *labelled in plain english* (so no need to decode some graphic design idiot's crude hallucinations) just like in, well, pretty much every single windows or mac program ever written since the early 90s (and rather a large number of dos (hell, even some cp/m) apps before that). How the hell is that *hard to spot*???

As for "are ribbons good", I've not seen it, so maybe it is the best thing since sliced bread, but to be honest it *sounds* like the sort of non-feature you add to an application when you've already added every other even vaguely potentially useful feature you can think of and are desparately casting about for an excuse to print more money by forcing people to upgrade for no good reason (of course, I'd argue that you should do this by improving speed and reliability and generally fine tuning what you've got, but I'm weird that way).

Re:Man, just get used to it MOD PARENT UP! (0, Troll)

dilute (74234) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921821)

You bet. As a Word user since 1986, who knows the program pretty well, I must agree that the ribbon is a jumbled mess with important stuff deeply hidden. It was a big disappointment. It took me quite a while to find even the undo command. Inserting a footnote now requires a whole series of mouse clicks as far as I can tell. Go try something relatively obscure like turning on line numbering in a document and changing the style of the line numbers. It took me 10 minutes to figure out how to get to that style - it used to be in the default style drop-down. But I still choose to use Office 2007 despite all these frustrations - maybe it's loyalty, maybe it's more interesting. Damned, though, if I can see any really new major features that make it worthwhile. On the other hand, when this stuff gets rolled out to secretaries who have been using Word for years, there will be hell to pay. People get pretty set in their ways.

This is (another) major opportunity for competitors to make inroads. Jeez, OpenOffice is (a lot) less of a leap from Word 2003 than this stuff.

Re:Man, just get used to it MOD PARENT UP! (1)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921933)

It took me quite a while to find even the undo command.
The toolbar command is right next to the Office button, at the top of the screen, thus conforming to Fitt's law as befits a commonly used operation. Alternatively, use ctrl-z. Alternatively, if you prefer the old-style keyboard accelerators, alt+e+u still works fine.

Inserting a footnote now requires a whole series of mouse clicks as far as I can tell.
Insert -> Footer -> Blank. Three clicks; exactly the same number as before. Alternatively, just double-click at the bottom of the document. That would be 2 clicks, in rapid sucession.

Go try something relatively obscure like turning on line numbering in a document and changing the style of the line numbers. It took me 10 minutes...
Page layout -> Line numbers -> Continuous. Three clicks. For line numbering options: Page layout -> Line numbers -> Line numbering options. That took me about 10 seconds.

BTW, all the old keyboard shortcuts still work exactly as before (including the alt+x+y accelerators)

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

Strange Ranger (454494) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921901)

I couldn't agree more.

Spellcheck is a TOOL! It was under the Tools menu. Perfect.
Spellcheck is not a message. What's it's doing under the Message menu ("ribbon", whatever)?
Why is message formating under the Options menu, and font formating under the Format Text menu?
It's idiotic. It's change for the sake of change.
All the formating options under the Format menu and all the tools widgets under the Tools menu, now that made perfect sense.

The new arrangement, even after you learn it, doesn't make much sense. It's almost, but not quite, entirely unlike something intuitive.

Re:Man, just get used to it (3, Insightful)

icepick72 (834363) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921939)

Drop-down menus have been around so long because they work!


Actually, drop-down menus work because you got used to them and so did everybody else. Heck, I remember my first time using a mouse when it became widely available. You obviously got past that one, although from your post I'm not sure if it wasn't without complaining :) Nothing is intuitive at first. It's been so long you've forgotten how to accept change to your computer programs that's all. You can choose to forget how to adapt to change and rail against everything new. Won't be the only one.

Re:Man, just get used to it (2, Informative)

Dan100 (1003855) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922277)

"Drop-down menus have been around so long because they work!"

Umm, no, they don't. I forget the statistic but it's something like 80% of users use only 20% of the features - they'd use the rest but they don't know they're there.

I use Office 2007 daily and it's a revelation. Producing complex cross-suite documents is now much quicker and more intuitive.

Re:Man, just get used to it (4, Interesting)

cmacb (547347) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921655)

Seriously, why do people fear change so much?


More and more people are not fearing change and are changing to things like Open Office and web-based word processing. I used to preach at people about the advantages of Linux and Open Source. Made very little headway, because people don't like change. Now they have a choice between changes forced on them by Microsoft, and an old interface (Open Office) that looks more like the old Office than the new Office does. Now I'm helping companies make the switch. Thank you Microsoft!

Funny, if some other company had vended something that looked exactly like Vista and the new Office, MS would have put out a study describing the very high costs of user retraining. You can only mislead your customers so much with this sort of nonsense before you achieve total loss of credibility, at that point even when you tell them the truth they are not inclined to believe you. I think Microsoft has finally achieved this goal, although why they would have wanted to I can't say, maybe just some inside joke among marketing people. Clearly the company is not run by techies.

Is OpenOffice really any better? (1, Insightful)

sean_ex_machina (1026748) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921855)

For most people, going from Office 2003 to OpenOffice is worse than going from Office 2003 to Office 2007. OpenOffice looks just like (an uglier version of) Office but all of the menus and dialogs are just different enough that you waste a lot of time expecting things to behave like they do in Office even though they don't. Yuck.

Re:Man, just get used to it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18922257)

hey everybody, let's mod this comment up simply because it mentions open source! how very slashdotesque of you.
 
the only thing that could possibly be worse then taking a windows user and shoveling linux on them is taking a ms office user and shoveling open office on them.
 
thanks for helping the cause, gimp.

Retraining and FUD (2, Interesting)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921695)

This does not stack up. On the one hand MS is trying to convert people to a sexier UI (change is good) while on the other hand they are FUDding people that they should not switch to Open Office etc, partially for retraining reasons (change is bad). People must be stupid.

Fuck what the software design looks like. The actual function is far more important. One part of that function is consistency across versions.

Sense of perspective, people... (1)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921773)

FFS. No-one needs to be 're-trained' to use an Office suite, whether it's Word 2007, Openoffice, or any other. It's an office suite! You click on the page-like thing and type words. All the major, often-used icons look exactly the same (or at least have the same basic shape and are recognisable) in every office suite I can think of.

Even when you get beyond the icons you still don't need any retraining unless you're a compete idiot. You want to view the ruler? Openoffice: press the view menu, click 'ruler'. Office 2007: press the 'view' tab, click 'ruler'. It's not rocket science.

Anyone advanced enough to be actually seriously affected by the changes is either intelligent enough to be able to learn any differences (in OOo or in O2007) in 30 seconds flat after flicking through the menus / tabs respectively; or else has just memorised all the keyboard shortcuts anyway -- which all work as they've always done in Office 2007, and (though I haven't tried it) I'd be astonished if they didn't in OopenOffice.

Perception is some of this (1)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921947)

I wrote grandparent mainly to point out the inconsistencies in MS FUD. I use both OO and Office (older version) and find I can move between them pretty easily, so most of the retraining argument is FUD. A change to ribbons is a big change though.

I must admit that I get pretty cranky when software UI gets changed for little more than eye candy reasons and I get even more cranky when the UI is trying to guess what I want and gets it wrong. To most people, myself included, software is a tool. I'm the master, not the tool. Many UI "innovations" (particularly context sensitive stuff like clippy and ribbons) make for an annoying experience rather than an easy flow.

Rather than change the main menu to be context sensitive, it would likely be far better to keep the main menu structure solid so you always have consistency, then add the context sensitive stuff to right-click or something.

Re:Perception is some of this (1)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922083)

I get even more cranky when the UI is trying to guess what I want and gets it wrong [...] Many UI "innovations" (particularly context sensitive stuff like clippy and ribbons) make for an annoying experience rather than an easy flow. [...] Rather than change the main menu to be context sensitive, it would likely be far better to keep the main menu structure solid so you always have consistency
But the main menu isn't context-sensitive. The Home, Insert, Page layout, References, Mailings, Review, and View tabs are permanent and unchanging, no matter what you're doing. The only thing I can think of that's context-sensitive is that when you've selected a table or something, a 'table' tab appears to let you change table-specific options if you want to, but you're free to click on it or not as you wish. Hardly "the UI trying to guess what you want".

Now the 'intelligent menu' crap that came in in Office 2000 (and, IIRC, disappeared again in XP or 2003) -- that was pretty fucked up, mainly because it *did* change itself and try to 'anticipate' your needs; but as far as I can tell, 2007 hasn't got any of that.

Re:Man, just get used to it (2, Funny)

antdude (79039) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921713)

Seriously, why do people fear change so much? The new Office document format is much better than any previous formats in my opinion. It's better than the old formats. Sure, it takes a while to get used to but it is worth it. [grin] :P

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921801)

People want to be productive. In a business environment, interfaces should remain as conservative as possible. Having steep learning curves that take weeks to get over mean a loss of productivity, which costs money for the whole organization.

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921829)

Why not doing it right the first time ?
For heaven's sake, it is just about writing documents and it is also 2007. Shouldn't most of the essential features be identified and standardized by now ?

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

battery111 (620778) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922049)

For heaven's sake, it is just about writing documents and it is also 2007. Shouldn't most of the essential features be identified and standardized by now ?
Not to defend Microsoft or their choices in UI implementation, but alot of people here seem to be forgetting something. While alot of people really only buy office for word, and even then rarely to do anything they couldn't do on notepad besides spell and grammar check, that's not everyone. Microsoft is making office for a large and diverse audience, and in order to be dominant in as large a market as possible, is continually adding features that perhaps only a small segment of the market actually uses or finds helpful at all. However, that set of users greatly appreciates this, and is pretty much now locked into office, being the only suite to offer said mythical feature. This is where all the clutter comes from, just because you don't use it all, doesn't mean no one else does. Now perhaps microsoft should offer more customization for the UI itself, I.E. "classic mode", "Basic Mode", "advanced mode", and "everything mode".

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922101)

I completely agree with this. I tried to summarize this issue using the word "most". And indeed, having basic/extended/advanced GUI with "basic" staying the same from version to version is exactly what is needed.

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922141)

"classic mode", "Basic Mode", "advanced mode", and "everything mode".
Problem with that is that although 80% of people only use 20% of the features, all 80% use a *different* 20%, which is the problem that makers of 'light' word processors as opposed to projects like OOo always run into. I can't remember where I read this (Joel on Software, maybe), but someone commented that the process usually goes like: Someone makes a 'light' word processor, and doesn't include word count since only 5% of people ever use it. Journalist reviews word processor. Journalists are the one segment of people that *do* use word count. Journalist slags off word processor because it "doesn't even have word count". Word processor dies a quiet death.

Plus, (entirely contradicting my last paragraph), I think Microsoft actually has tried to do this with Word 2007: your "Basic Mode" being the 'Home' tab, wherin resides the 20% of the features that are all 80% of people need.

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

xation (809158) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921899)

The ribbon is awesome. It may be about the only thing that MS can truly say, "we innovated this feature," and I'm lovin' it.

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921997)

Say "hi" to Mr. G for me, will you?

Of course, "ribbon" is only a G away from "gibbon [wikipedia.org] ", which makes sense because you'd have to be a monkey to figure the thing out.

They just upgraded me to the latest Office at work, and the ribbon is definitely causing me a productivity loss at the moment. Oh, I'm sure I'll eventually get used to it but right now it's irritating the bejesus out of me.

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922027)

The new Office design is much better than any previous version, in my opinion.

You have to be kidding... I bet you like day-glo orange boots too...

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922157)

...If you think all user interface design is is color choices and gradients, I can show you a neat way to make cmd.exe a very pretty blue...

Re:Man, just get used to it (1)

ChameleonDave (1041178) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922127)

A learning curve and a hill are not the same thing. A difficult hill is steep, but a difficult learning curve is so shallow that it forms a plateau.

MS has your back (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18922249)

Why is Slashdot so rabidly, brainlessly inclined to bash Microsoft? Yes, MS came up with a design which differs from the old one. So what? Isn't change sometimes good?

Also, yes, there are (as the lead poster points out) ways to customize the Office 2007 user interface. So... who build the framework allowing that interface to be customized? OMG... it's the same company being bashed- Microsoft! OMG... MS is allowing choice and customization!!! How horrible!!!

Really, Slashdot needs to get a grip, and ditch the "anti-MS at any cost" frame of thought. MS is, for the most part, single handedly responsible for the tech boom which has put a computer in almost every household, and brought IT to every modernized workplace. That would have never happened had MS not made a single-solution product for the desktop, the server, and network management.

I've never been a fan of the viewpoint that Linux competes with Windows. Linux does what it's good at, and Windows does what it's good at. Linux is good if something needs to be heavily customized at the OS level, but in reality... that's a tiny little niche requirement. If you are looking for the most well-rounded OS out there, Windows wins hands down.

So get a nice slice of cheese to go with your Slashdot whine, chill out, and always remember that what OS you use does not define you as a person (no matter how much one might pray it is so).

Customers either love it at first or come around (1)

jt2377 (933506) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921413)

on the second try. Office 2007 is really an improved software that MS put out unlike Vista. Office 2007 plus Sharepoint is what getting customers hook up and sadly there are no equivalent in OSS space for OOo to combo with.

MS's Office side of business will probably bring more money in than their Windows side.

We all know "The Boss"... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921419)

TONY DANZA!

Re:We all know "The Boss"... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921513)

He was the housekeeper. Everyone knows the real boss was that rat bastard little boy. No, I don't mean a young Alyssa Milano. How many of you just regressed your childhood therapy just now? Sorry about that.

Re:We all know "The Boss"... (1, Offtopic)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921717)

I was gunna say that.. but I think only about you, me, and 1% of the Slashdot population know what the fuck you're talking about.

All the LOL-age have no idea.

Don't mention the A-team.

Re:We all know "The Boss"... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18922193)

No, the real boss is Matthew Brock on News Radio when he beat up Bill (RIP). He could mate with whoever he wanted.

at the risk of being modded (-1, Troll)

DaMattster (977781) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921433)

I am going to say it. I have already shown Microsoft Office who is boss. I am the boss and I have decided to go with Open Office, save some money, and still be reasonably compatible with M$.

Re:at the risk of being modded (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921461)

At the risk of being modded... up? Supporting Open Office as opposed to Microsoft Office is not exactly controversial on Slashdot.

I applaud your courage. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921471)

I for one find your public support of Open Office in the face of slashdot's well-known anti-Open Office bias inspiring. You're not just putting your life on the line by boldly supporting software with a great many zealous supporters, but your karma too. You, sir, are an American Hero. A hero sir. Your example of courage will outlive us all.

Re:I applaud your courage. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921663)

ha ha oh wow

He's not trying to be a hero (1)

xant (99438) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921843)

You'll note that he said "at the risk of being modded". Clearly he's afraid of being modded *up*. He's not being heroic, he's being modest, trying to keep his posts down where nobody will make a big deal about them.

Re:He's not trying to be a hero (1)

mstahl (701501) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922065)

If that were true, wouldn't he post as an AC?

Re:He's not trying to be a hero (1)

alienmole (15522) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922233)

That would be cowardly, and he's too honorable for that. Truly, a Slashdot hero.

Re:I applaud your courage. (1)

eclectro (227083) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921919)

Your example of courage will outlive us all.

If he really wanted to be a true hero though, he should have made a remark about Clippy.

Re:at the risk of being modded (2, Interesting)

Miseph (979059) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921693)

Can there be a "-1, Asinine" moderation?

Re:at the risk of being modded (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921809)

Yeah you show them who is the boss by using a second rate ofice sweet

Re:at the risk of being modded (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922057)

I just write everything as plain HTML.

Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (5, Insightful)

rueger (210566) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921437)

Although I keep defaulting back to MS Office - Open Office just isn't quite enough and isn't quite interchangable enough with people using Office - I still hate the the damned thing. It's like software designed by Terry Gilliam. [imdb.com]

I hate the way it formats stuff whether I want it or not. I hate that it automatically changes URLs and e-mail addresses into links, even though I'm creating print documents. I REALLY hate that copied text from elsewhere is pasted in with whatever format it had elsewhere, not with the format of the text on the page that I'm editing.

And I hate that it is invariably difficult or impossible to turn this crap off.

I sincerely fear every new release of MS Office specifically because I need to beat it into submission to make it behave as if I'm in charge.

I don't even know what a "ribbon" is, but I'm sure that I'll hate that too.

Re:Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921543)

Just an FYI: When you paste something copied from another app, do a "paste special" and tell it to paste as unformatted text. That will insert it with the currently text style. That really bothered me for a while as well.

Re:Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (1)

symbolic (11752) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921911)

Score one for an intuitive interface...

Re:Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (3, Informative)

thc69 (98798) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921603)

You do know that you can turn off all the autoformat crap, right? That much is not impossible to turn off.

IIRC, Word has a "paste as" or "paste special" option that will offer "unformatted text" as a possibility. OpenOffice does. Else, there's always notepad as a middleman...

Oh and for sure, you will hate ribbons.

Re:Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (1)

Arivia (783328) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921649)

I'm not sure where turning off automatic URL changing is, but paste formatting is really where it's supposed to be in 2007:

Office Button->Word Options->Advanced->Cut, copy and paste.

Re:Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922119)

What makes that an "Advanced" option?

Re:Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921653)

I hate the way it formats stuff whether I want it or not. I hate that it automatically changes URLs and e-mail addresses into links, even though I'm creating print documents. I REALLY hate that copied text from elsewhere is pasted in with whatever format it had elsewhere, not with the format of the text on the page that I'm editing.

Why do people gripe about features it takes And I hate that it is invariably difficult or impossible to turn this crap off.

It's in Options. Turn off Autoformat. That's it. You're done.

Re:Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921673)

Slashdot seems to have swallowed about half my post there. This software sucks more than people whining about features they could turn off.

Re:Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (1)

Miseph (979059) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921743)

I suppose if the software sucks so much you could, ya know, decide not to use it? kind of like people who decide that MS Office sucks and decide to use OOo instead. It would sure beat the hell out of bitching and moaning and not doing anything about it.

Re:Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18922059)

Slashdot seems to have swallowed about half my post there


Well, I told you, it was a BAD idea, using Office 2007 to edit your Slashdot posts...

Re:Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (1)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922199)

I hate the way it formats stuff whether I want it or not. I hate that it automatically changes URLs and e-mail addresses into links, even though I'm creating print documents. I REALLY hate that copied text from elsewhere is pasted in with whatever format it had elsewhere, not with the format of the text on the page that I'm editing. And I hate that it is invariably difficult or impossible to turn this crap off.
For hyperlinks: If it does it, click the tag next to the hyperlink and press "stop automatically creating hyperlinks", and it'll stop. Not difficult. For pasted text, click the tag next to the pasted text, and click "match destination formatting". Then click "set as default". Again, if you find that "difficult or impossible", MS did once create [wikipedia.org] an interface with you in mind...

Re:Ah, Office - the Brazil of software (1)

DavidD_CA (750156) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922207)

Everything you mentioned can be turned off very easily. It's called AutoCorrect.

Hit the Office button and choose Word Options. Go to Proofing and click "AutoCorrect Options". Then review the list and turn off whatever you hate. Note the tabs, as the AutoCorrect features are in various groups.

I find it interesting how so many /. users are fond of customizing and plug-ins and lots and lots of options. How many of you have fine-tuned Firefox? Yet when it comes to MS Office, you act like everything is set in stone.

windowsblinds anyone? (1)

MellowHexagon (1088635) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921441)

Funny how considering that MS have some of the most widely used software in the world, they have never (as far as i'm aware) ever offerd software that allows user customisation. IE7 is getting there but in terms of windows and office, only 3rd party apps have allowed you to give the software the look and feel that YOU, the customer wants. Wether this is because they don't want the hassle of dealing with stupid customers or they are just plain lazy and more concerned with comercial interests, I don't know.

Re:windowsblinds anyone? (0)

lgarner (694957) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921573)

It's probably because some basic Windows functions *must* be offered by third parties.

When MS introduced a browser into Windows, they ended up in court with Netscape.
When MS introduced antivirus software into Windows, their new competitors tried to do it again.

I'm surprised that Xtree & others didn't sue when MS had the audacity to include a file manager with Windows.

Re:windowsblinds anyone? (2, Insightful)

romland (192158) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921595)

Let's say what you're saying is true, then I don't find it all that strange. And neither should you since you answered the question yourself: They don't want the hassle of dealing with stupid customers.

Thing is, a third party company can *sell* the extension, Microsoft wouldn't be able to. It would bring heaps of bad publicity (imagine the fun we'd have here at /.), so they'd give it away for free... and in return get what? More complicated support.

Now, like any good company that is in it for the money, they can brush you off with a simple "Oh, that is not our fault, call *them* about that".

Re:windowsblinds anyone? (1)

Zantetsuken (935350) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921597)

IIRC GAIM/Pidjin states its major reason for not allowing mini-window skins (winamp/xmms style) is that it would allow for skin makers to remove options that people helping to troubleshoot (IRC channels, forums, helpdesks, etc) - while I'd sure as hell like a choice, if some idiot user stumbles into it and the skin takes menu options away, how is a helpdesk supposed to know? Allowing for skins might make things look better, but for the idiot users, it would make things a support nightmare...

Re:windowsblinds anyone? (1)

figleaf (672550) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921657)

have never (as far as i'm aware) ever offerd software that allows user customisation

Windows Plus Pack offered several themes which allowed user customizations.

Re:windowsblinds anyone? (2, Insightful)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921691)

You think Microsoft's bad? Try using OS X sometime.

Show Office 2007 Who's the Boss... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921463)

...by not buying it or using it, and downloading Open Office instead!

Seriously, if you use Microsoft applications, you are not the boss.

A better way to show ms office who's boss (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921475)

People need to make documents available in open office format and to point out that the application to read them is a free download, called OpenOffice.org.

A similar ploy worked for pdf.

add ons... (-1, Offtopic)

owlnation (858981) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921485)

Third party add-ons...

Isn't this just screaming "pwn me" - like the .ani thing? People getting new ribbon.exe attachments in mails etc etc etc...

How is this not advertising? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921495)

As the title says -- news for nerds? Or is it? Or, are we talking about different KINDS of nerds? If so, I wasn't aware they came in different flavors...

To be honest... (3, Interesting)

Aphrika (756248) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921505)

I'm pretty much cool with having the ribbons set as they are. There a a number of reasons:

Firstly, I seemed to spend ages pulling the whole lot apart and making it just the way I wanted it. Then I'd change it. Then I'd change it again. By the time I'd got it right, I'd made it so different from the standard menus that if I used another PC, I couldn't remember where the heck I'd put anything.

Secondly, this also goes for supporting users. How many times have you told people exactly where to find something in an OS, only to find they've moved it/deleted it/ lost it? Happens all the time with Office. People regularly seem to lose whole toolbars, or end up with a little grey stub.

Thirdly, it's contextual. In older versions, none of the command were contextual at all. The rest of the OS is - right click, drag, etc. but toolbars weren't. Those years of sorting out the new ribbon seem to have pretty much got the whole lot in just the right place. For instance, I absolutely hate PowerPoint, but in 2007 putting a new presentation together was a breeze. It looked pretty good too.

Just my twopenneth. I know a lot of people out there hate the idea of being told where their icons and menus are going, but to be honest, I just don't have a problem with it at all. It's all there, it all makes sense and it's progress as far as I'm concerned.

Why can't things be simple? (2, Insightful)

Bruitist (987735) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921567)

Personally, I'd just like an Office suite that does simple basic things without any fuss. Currently I use AbiWord for word processing as it does everything I need easily and with no fuss. Unfortunately, if I want to do anything like create a spreadsheet or a presentation, I have to wait ages for OpenOffice to load and then trawl the menus for the command I want (before I switched to Abi, after every piece of work I wrote, I'd spend a couple of minutes trying to remember how to add page numbers...). Any suggestions?

Re:Why can't things be simple? (1)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921659)

GNOME office for GNOME / KOffice for KDE / MS Works for Windows are the usual 'lightweight office suite' suggestions. Alternatively, if you're happy to use a web-based office suite (which not everyone is), Google Docs & Spreadsheets has been mentioned a few times on Slashdot, though I've never used it myself.

Re:Why can't things be simple? (1)

The Lost Supertone (754279) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921665)

No spreadsheets but Keynote works amazing for presentations. iWork is pretty nice in general. Hopefully 2007 brings a spreadsheet app.

Re:Why can't things be simple? (0, Troll)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922223)

we're talking about software for real computers, not toys.

Does this mean... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921581)

Will they make an add-on to bring Clippy back?

*attempts to dodge barrage of gunfire from all directions*

Keyboard Shortcuts (2, Informative)

SEMW (967629) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921615)

Classic Menu gives you an Office-2003-like set of menus. It'll help you navigate old menu structures to find favorite commands, but don't expect to use all the familiar keyboard shortcuts
Ummm, you can already [msdn.com] use all the old keyboard shortucts on Office 2007 (yes, including all the menu-based alt+x+y+z ones). They all work just as they did before. There's new ribbon-based ones as well, but all the old ones still work transparently.

Fork? (-1, Troll)

MadnessASAP (1052274) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921625)

Never heard of Office 2007 is it a fork of OpenOffice or something?

Re:Fork? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#18921941)

man, you must be one dumb motherfucker. you one of those linux fags or something? you sucking them dicks?

Monkeysoft Office Anonymous (5, Funny)

Dystopian Rebel (714995) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921645)

Friend, have you lost sleep worrying about whether you'll fail adapt to the stupendous User Interface innovations in the latest Monkeysoft Office?

How many times have you found yourself saying, "I could understand this global warming analysis model better if only I could see it on a Monkeysoft Powerpoint slide with those animated bullets that enter from the left or right of the slide"?

How many times have you found yourself thinking, "I don't even know what an OS is, I only need Monkeysoft Windows to run Monkeysoft Office, otherwise I could be using A Bantu or OS Ecstacy or whatever that piercing-faced kid in IS&T is using these days"?

How many times have you found yourself skipping a few StarCups coffees every week for a few months so you could buy yourself the latest version of Monkeysoft Office?

How many times have you found yourself thinking, "I don't get upset about viruses, they are an inevitable part of life even if they cost billions and are propagated by dimwits using Monkeysoft Office, soytenly not me"?

Don't worry, there's help. Join Slashdot's Monkeysoft Anonymous Forum [slashdot.org] , where people just like you are helping one another learn to live without Monkeysoft, one precious day at a time.

why return back? (1)

Verunks (1000826) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921647)

office 2007 it's a pretty cool software and the new interface is really good too Microsoft has really improved the ease of use with the ribbon toolbar, IMHO not like vista where they have ruined it, so why return back? i know that more than half of office's user are dumb but sooner or later they will have to learn the new interface otherwise they can simply use paper & pencil

Flash Guides (3, Informative)

Malggi (791997) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921701)

Microsoft has setup interactive guides on their site that show you where commands are in 2007. You can find them half way down this page [microsoft.com] . The guides should help you get the ball rolling.

Re:Flash Guides (1)

contrapunctus (907549) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921863)

The link you provide points to a website that want to run a script to see if I have MS Office 2007 installed before it would show me anything.

No thanks.

oh boy! (1)

friedman101 (618627) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921709)

you mean i can have all the functionality of office 2003 in office 2007? finally i can justify the upgrade.

Speaking Of Tony Danza... (0, Offtopic)

LEX LETHAL (859141) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921849)

Katherine Helmond said awhile back that on the set of "Who's The Boss" they used to put stickers on everything that read, "Tony-Proof" because he was such a klutz.

Hmmm (0, Offtopic)

kitsunewarlock (971818) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921917)

Although interesting, I don't see how letting your office a television sitcom starring Tony Danza and Judith Light airing for eight seasons on ABC from 1984 to 1992 is useful to anyone.

Yes, let's go back to the old menu... (2, Insightful)

nobodyman (90587) | more than 7 years ago | (#18921957)

...so we may continhe to complain about it incessantly.

This thread is pointless. (3, Informative)

Darundal (891860) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922033)

All this thread is is one giant continual flame war. You have people on one side arguing that the new UI is better than before, and offering "reasons" why. You have people who argue that the old UI worked better before. Thing is, nobody is going to actually change anybodies mind. Those who like the old UI will find reasons why it is better, and those who like the new UI will find reasons why it is better. I know Slashdot is about the discussion, but this is nothing more than a blatant attempt set off a flame war. People like me read Slashdot because we look for insightful and interesting opinions and the occasional obscure but highly relevant fact on current tech and related topics. Mod me down, I don't care, I have Karma to burn. Doesn't make the thread suddenly more intelligent or important or insightful or anything other than garbage.

Re:This thread is pointless. (2, Interesting)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922099)

The system which you've described is called the ping-pong style of debate. It only gets worse when people begin drawing analogies or using metaphors, and then arguing those metaphors and analogies in the same ping-pong style by drawing more analogies and using new metaphors.

The ping-pong debate is not actually useful in resolving a topic. When one side _is_ actually trying to resolve the topic, and the other side is using the ping-pong debate style, then it's called a flamewar. Typically I see the people instigating or perpetuating the ping-pong style as the trolls. Quite often people (usually newbs) are caught up in a flamewar because they honestly think that the other side is trying to resolve the topic when, in reality, the other side is perpetuating a ping-pong debate.

I first introduced the ping-pong debate in my junior year of high school because, after three years of debate, I had reached my limit of tolerance for the same old arguments which were rehashed endlessly by aspiring legals carrying around attache cases, and dump trucks, full of debate briefs which were not meant to resolve the topic issue, but to rather perpetuate it's endless argument. After hearing the same tired old eye vs. eye for the third year in a row my head was pounding with a headache and I appealed to the judge to look beyond the technical merits of the ping-pong debate and to begin scoring based upon the professional aspects of how the speakers made their presentation.

We lost the debate round--but the judge did include comments which demonstrated an appreciation, even admiration, of the ping-pong debate which I had presented. Later that year I placed second, in my debate position, in a state tournament.

I took second because, even though my professionalism, insight, and analysis was higher than my competition, the team I was on still rarely won the evidence weighted debates.

Plus c'est la meme chose, plus ça change (1)

xactuary (746078) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922215)

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

It must also be said: The more windows is broken, the more chairs are thrown.

finally!!!one (1)

AlgorithMan (937244) | more than 7 years ago | (#18922281)

yes!
after i spent $270 on upgrading office 2003 pro to office 2007 pro (i have a small dick, you know, i NEED the pro version to feel better about myself) i can finally make office 2007 feel like office 2003 again

I could burn my money as well...
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