Canadian Coins Not Nano-Tech Espionage Devices 412
Necrotica writes "An odd-looking Canadian coin with a bright red flower was the culprit behind the U.S. Defence Department's false espionage warning earlier this year.
The odd-looking — but harmless — "poppy coin" was so unfamiliar to suspicious U.S. Army contractors traveling in Canada that they filed confidential espionage accounts about them. The worried contractors described the coins as "anomalous" and "filled with something man-made that looked like nano-technology," according to once-classified U.S. government reports and e-mails obtained by the AP."
wow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)
It was a Remembrance Day (ww2) coin.. why would this strike anyone as suspicious? As for the "man-made" bit.. well, it's a coin.. who'd they expect made it?
Shhhhhhhhh!!! You'll blow our cover!!! (Score:5, Funny)
1. Celine Dion
2. Jim Carrey
3. nano-tech coins...
4. ????
5. Profit? ...No my friend. WORLD DOMINATION! MWahahahah!!
Re:Shhhhhhhhh!!! You'll blow our cover!!! (Score:4, Funny)
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/remembranceday/
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Re:wow (Score:4, Informative)
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Plus, the poem "In Flander's Fields", from which we derived the symbolism of the poppy, is a poem from the Great War.
it's probably been said that it's always been said (Score:5, Funny)
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Or else, they're just a bunch of tin-foil spy wannabees.
Re:wow (Score:5, Funny)
What? Are you telling me your US coins aren't created out of thin air by God Himself? "In God We Trust", I thought that was His signature...
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Yep [psdschools.org].
Clarification about the coin (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, the coin was NOT a WW2 coin. It was issued in 2004 to commemorate the 90th anniversary of the start of the FIRST world war in 1914. Remembrance Day started at the end of WWI (11th hour, eleventh day, eleventh month in 1918).
It is the first general-circulation coin in the world to have ever been issued in colour. IIRC, Canada is still the only country to issue coloured coins in general circulation (the mint later issued one with a pink ribbon as part of a breast cancer fund-raising campaign). The images are "painted" (printed actually) by computer using some kind of epoxy on a small mesh substrate, which is then cured (not sure if this required heat or not, but it becomes quite a durable finish).
It is quite an elabourate process for a simple little image, but it was designed so that it could withstand years of use in general circulation without wearing off or fading. They worked on the assumption that these coins would see the same kind of abuse as normal coins, but given that people tend to save them for awhile when they get then in their change, I suspect that the mint went a bit overboard in the design. However, the Canadian Mint is internationally known for quality so they have a rep to live up to.
Given the unusual nature of the coin to someone outside of Canada, I'm not surprised that it caught the attention of US security. Also, given the paranoia of security-types in both the US AND Canada, I am not the least surprised that they would over-react to a benign situation (and, in the process, likely miss a REAL threat). I have, in my travels through many airports in Canada and US, witnessed some of these "bright lights" confiscate an old lady's plastic crochet hooks and "take down" an 80 year old man (forcing him to the floor, arms restrained at his back), who lost sight of his wheelchair-bound wife when an attendant took her down the elevator while his back was turned. That last incident really drove home the message that you MUST take seriously the signs that read "do not stop in this area" as you leave the departure gate. If Canadian security are like that, I can only imagine what DC or New York would be like (Philadelphia and Chicago are bad enough thank you).
Re:wow (Score:5, Funny)
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Can Light Microscopes see Nano-scale devices? (Score:2)
I'm not sure that nano-scale structures are visible with conventional light microscopes. I was always under the impression that you'd have to look at the thing with an electron microscope to see the "nanotech" features.
Re:Can Light Microscopes see Nano-scale devices? (Score:5, Informative)
A common definition of "nanotech" is a device that was devised with intentional features on a scale of under a 100 nm or so. The best optical microscopes can resolve down to about 200nm, or roughly half a wavelength of blue light.
So you are correct. In fact, for some devices even an electron microscope doesn't quite cut it, and a scanning-tunneling microscope (STM) or atomic-force microscope (AFM) are used.
Re:wow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:wow (Score:5, Funny)
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Don't put him in charge of security in Canada's largest airports (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary). Imagine his alarm when the guy with the turban and beard on whom he's drawn his gun happens to be his boss.
Don't take this as a racist remark--it is merely an observation about life here; for years, those of middle-eastern decent have traditionally seemed to gravitate towards certain businesses, security services being among them.
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Re:wow (Score:5, Informative)
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To a defense contractor anything looks like nano-technology these days.
If it looks like nanotech, smells like nanotech .. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:wow (Score:4, Funny)
I'll tell you a secret... (Score:5, Funny)
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I guess this means ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I guess this means ... (Score:5, Funny)
We plan to let American troops walk in, and station wherever they like. Eventually they'll either get bored and leave or get jobs at Tim Hortons. Besides there's no way Americans will want to inherit the tax, or Quebec.
Re:I guess this means ... (Score:5, Funny)
Conspiracy? (Score:5, Interesting)
I mean really, nanotech in coins? They use nanotech in computer processors and look how much time and effort it takes to make one of them.
The biggest conspiracy theorists (Score:5, Funny)
The biggest conspiracy theorists are the spies. They actually make a decent living hatching ridiculous conspiracy theories (oooh, the Canadian Mint is run by aliens using their advanced nanotech to prepare for invasion). That way their masters get to spy on pinko commie agitators everywhere, like environmentalists and democracy advocates (ooh look, the Raging Grannies [wikipedia.org] are inciting insurrection, let's tap their phones, send in the moles).
Old news? (Score:2, Informative)
Espionage devices or not ... (Score:5, Funny)
Did you mean (Score:5, Funny)
Better Safe Than Sorry (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Better Safe Than Sorry, Eh (Score:5, Interesting)
What I want to know is why it didn't occur to anyone to 1) call Canada and ask them or 2) call a coin collector and ask them or 3) use google, rather than running around like headless chickens.
Pity it wasn't the one dollar coin, then we could have had a cheap jibe about loonies. Oh well, eh.
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I'd rather have these folks a little paranoid because you never know when a suspicious looking item really is being used for espionage.
I'd rather the government have a little credibility rather than crying wolf about a coin that's been public knowledge for more than 2 years. I was suspicious if you didn't know anything about the coin, it just never should have been released as a public warning.
State of Fear (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yeah but the great thing about paranoia is you only have to be right once for it to all be worth while.
Re:State of Fear (Score:5, Informative)
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2- People like this man are expected to be suspicious when they see something odd. In that case, that leaded to useless investigation of something mundane to the point of being ridiculous (and a good occasion to have mock the apparent low tech of US currency), but that "better safe than sorry" is the expected behavior in some proffe
Remembrance Day coin? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I think that might be where I got my first one as well though
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As a sidenote, we Canadians do have both Second Cup and (Star|Four|Six)buck's (whichever "crack in a cup" refers to). They're generally found in malls and shopping centres (not standalone stores) and mainly popular with fancy lads who make their own soap. Corre
Re:Remembrance Day coin? (Score:4, Funny)
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It's a known fact that Starbucks is on a quest for domination of the US, and will not rest until there is a Starbucks on every street corner and every American is hooked. They plant the listening devices so they can make sure that you are getting your grande triple skim mocha latte extra mocha extra whip twice daily. How else do you expect them to ens
Starbucks has a long way to go (Score:5, Informative)
Starbucks is a Tim Horton's wannabe--it isn't anywhere close to achieving domination of its home country the way Tim Horton's is. Let me give you an idea of just how far along Tim Horton's is in its quest to take over Canada:
* Tim Hortons is the LARGEST fast-food/cafe chain in Canada. It is MORE THAN DOUBLE the size of McDonalds in Canada in terms of number of stores AND makes significantly more money than Mcdonalds does in Canada as well.
* For every cup of coffee Starbucks sells in Canada, Tim Horton's sells TEN.
* One of every four dollars spent on fast food in Canada is spent at Tim Horton's
* Even though it has a relatively small presence in the US, it is large enough that it TOOK OVER a major US fast food chain (it merged with Wendy's, and the resulting merged entity was majority owned by former Tim Horton's ownership). It also took over other regional fast food businesses in the US (Hardee's, Rax, etc).
So, it is an honest mistake to believe the special-issue coins might have been issued by Tim Horton's, given how thoroughly they have taken over the nation. However, it is not the case--legal tender is made exclusively by the Royal Mint despite the appearance that being a Tim Horton's franchisee is a license to print money.
Re:Remembrance Day coin? (Score:4, Funny)
* - note: authentic Canadian cultural reference, double double means double cream double sugar, the way it was meant to be drank, by the Lord God Thunderin' Jaysus!
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Paranoia abounds (Score:2)
On other news... (Score:3, Funny)
All this tells me... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yeah, American coins can do some pretty amazing stuff. For example, did you know that any time they strike a coin of denomination greater than $1, it vaporizes within ten seconds?
Really? I thought it just instantly underwent radioactive decay like a super-heavy element and turned into an ugly Susan B Anthony quarter*, or a tarnished-beyond-recognition Sacagawea dollar. And then was swept under the rug by dumping them at post offices nationwide.
* Yes, I actually typed "quarter" there before I noticed my error. That probably has some deep psychological significance.
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That's not a trade deficit, it's a massive spy operation!
Canada vs. US (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Canada vs. US (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Canada vs. US (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, I would say that Americans remember their history lessons too, but most of them don't. Of course, the association of poppies with WW1 isn't really a part of American (US) culture. We cleverly avoided that part of that bit of unpleasantness.
As a side note, do you know what Camerone Day is? Why not? Perhaps because it's not part of YOUR history....
and that a "red poppy looking flower" is probably A POPPY!!!
Which clearly shows that the coin is an advertisement for a druglord, eh? :)
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Re:Canada vs. US (Score:5, Interesting)
In Flander's Fields
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flander's fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, tho poppies grow
In Flander's fields.
Liet. -Col. John McCrae
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Considering that the US was a participant in that war, I'd say you just proved the point about people from the US not knowing their history
Bravo! I like the way you carefully extracted part of my sentence so as to completely change the meaning of the sentence, and provide yourself with a mild ego-boo for "proving" me wrong....
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Typical Defense Security Service (Score:5, Interesting)
idiots (Score:4, Funny)
Need a quick escape? (Score:2)
You now have an improvised explosive device to act as a diversion and allow you to jump out window!
5...4...3...2...
Hehe.. cool! (Score:2)
Why was it included in the US security report? (Score:2, Informative)
The mint produced nearly 30 million such quarters in 2004 commemorating Canada's 117,000 war dead.
Another very important subject about this false-espionnage coin:
The Defence Security Service disavowed its warning about spy coins after an international furor, but until now it has never disclosed the details behind the embarrassing episode. The U.S. said it never substantiated the contractors' claims and performed an internal review to determine how the false information wa
From the original FUD piece (Score:5, Insightful)
So, basically, a weird looking coin led the government to believe there was an international threat, and the reason this belief remained intact for more than... say... 30 seconds, is that these idiots were too dumb to Google "remember souvenir" (the words on the coin), and yet they're given the ability to classify such nonsense, escalating a problem that could've been resolved by asking any Canadian to empty their pockets, into a threat to national security.
Are they really stupid enough to think that spies are going to make tracking devices in the form of big red X's, and then put those devices on coins that are unlikely to stay in their possession for more than a day?
The most hilarious part are the comments by one of the U.S. contractors, who sounds like he just got his Official Little Orphan Annie secret decoder pin in the mail:
"It did not appear to be electronic (analog) in nature or have a power source," wrote one U.S. contractor, who discovered the coin in the cup holder of a rental car. "Under high power microscope, it appeared to be complex consisting of several layers of clear, but different material, with a wire like mesh suspended on top."
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I agree. It is amazing that they used a high power microscope to analyze the coin but did not even try a simple web search (as you mentioned, the first hits for "remember souvenir" are right on the spot) and did not consider looking at www.mint.ca.
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they have a blinking red LED on them and a pop out scanning radar dish.
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It's worth pointing out that "souvenir" on the coin does not mean that it is a souvenir 25-cent piece. The coin is legal tender, and souvenir is the infinitive form of the verb to remember in French.
And in other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Hardly surprising... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hardly surprising... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, at least we live in a country where we have dictionaries and whatnot that allow us to look up that word and understand what it actually means, and then look around the world and see where it's actually true.
You know, in countries next door to places where contractors actually do get bugged, kidnapped, and killed by people with a political agenda. If you're in that line of work, you've been to seminars where other guys in that line of work tell you what it's like to have your hotel room surveiled, your luggage tracked, or your co-workers decapitated. Canada isn't next door to Iran, but it is a place - just like the US - through which flows (and in which lives) folks with certain connections to operations like Hamas or countries like China and Iran that have a long track record of military and industrial espionage. Do you REALLY think that the US is a "totalitarian" state? What word do you use for places like Cuba, where (unlike the US or Canada) you can get shot for desparately trying to leave. Or North Korea? Are you THAT addled by your dislike for the US that you're that willing to close your eyes to places where such nonsense is the very nature of daily life and death, just so you're more comfortable using that label to score political points?
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Yeah, and some people see a fat young woman with no wedding ring and just assume she's a pregnant young bimbo, and form all sorts of invalid opinions which - even after they've been shown their id
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Picture of the quarter in question (Score:2)
focus (Score:2, Insightful)
Projection (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is The State of Canada Not Using US Coins? (Score:2)
j/k
Seriously, this is really funny. I mean the DoD doesn't know what coins are being used by our northern neighbor and are worried about spying from them? Go figure! Oh, I guess 'cause it is a poppy they're thinking some evil drug thing.
Re:Why is The State of Canada Not Using US Coins? (Score:5, Informative)
In Flanders Field (Score:4, Informative)
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
Re:In Flanders Field (Score:5, Informative)
Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army
Homeland Security makes me feel secure (Score:2)
What will they do next to wow us? Stop terrorists from using airplanes? Rescue hurricane victims?
Royal Canadian Mint is very High Tech... (Score:5, Interesting)
"The Mint has been at the forefront of currency innovation. Among the Mint's technical innovations have included its plating process, which consists of a multi-ply technology that allows electromagnetic signatures to be embedded in the coins, assuring readability in the coin-processing industries.[3] Its other innovation was the world's first coloured circulation coin, the 2004 Remembrance Day 25 cent piece, with a red poppy on the reverse. Further innovation was achieved with the adaptation of the Physical Vapour Deposition (PVD) technology to coat its dies, extending the life of the die beyond that of past chrome coated dies.[4]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Canadian_Mint [wikipedia.org]
Now, consider that the mint also makes coins for many other countries, US military contractors and security conscious travelers can be even more paranoid.
By the way, Canadian money is made by and controlled by the Canadian government... Do you know who makes and controls US currency? If you guessed the US government, you should check again.
Re:Royal Canadian Mint is very High Tech... (Score:4, Interesting)
Do you have any information to back that up? Last time I checked all US bills and most US coins have US Treasury mints marks printed on them. All US Treasury mints are in the US. All the paper for US bills are made from recycled cotton (jeans) in one paper mill in MA, where the watermarks and security bands are embedded during the paperforming process. The fact that this papermill has a monopoly on paper for US bills has caused considerable consternation among those who would like to cut the cost of creating money. Metal for US coins is similarly controlled.
I am not trying to flame/be a troll, I honestly would like to know your sources.
Also, do the Candian mints sell uncirculated collector sets like the US mints? These poppy coins seem pretty neat, I would like to get a collector set.
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LOL AMERIAKNS! (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, Riiiight (Score:2)
Never..... (Score:2, Insightful)
Took 'Em (Score:2)
Silly americans (Score:3, Funny)
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idU
We're still working on the miniaturization issue.
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Unfortunately, this sort of indiscriminate paranoia ensures that the true negatives will be missed in the midst of a sea of garbage.
The intelligent response to events like 9/11 is to recognize that law enforcement effort should be prioritized as always, focussing resources on the people most likely to do harm, and to accept that a certain level of risk is necessary to preserve some essential liberty.
Re:No big deal (Score:5, Insightful)
P.S. whoever "they" are