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Comcast Goes to Zimbra

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the exchange-assassination dept.

Software 143

tenchiken writes "Zimbra, an Open Source enterprise messaging app, just scored a major win. Comcast will be moving mail services to Zimbra for all of their customers. Zimbra has been picking up steam for a while now, and appears to really be challenging Microsoft in a area that Exchange has been dominated in. Add in support for Samba Domain Controllers and Linux Authentication, Offline Access and Evolution Support and we might finally have our long desired Open Source Exchange killer."

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Listen to those Talking Heads: (5, Funny)

smitty_one_each (243267) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023325)

gadji beri bimba clandridi
lauli lonni cadori gadjam
a bim beri glassala glandride
e glassala tuffm i zimbra

bim blassa galassasa zimbrabim
blassa glallassasa zimbrabim

a bim beri glassala grandrid
e glassala tuffm i zimbra

gadji beri bimba glandridi
lauli lonni cadora gadjam
a bim beri glassasa glandrid
e glassala tuffm i zimbra

err, what? (5, Funny)

cosmocain (1060326) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023373)

and appears to really be challenging Microsoft in a area that Exchange has been dominated in.


there ARE areas in life where you should NEVER EVER mix this one up. ;)

Re:err, what? (1)

Servo (9177) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024569)

That's not Bill in a Borg suit. That's his rubber dominatrix outfit.

Re:err, what? (1)

HAKdragon (193605) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024971)

Dear lord. Coming from somebody who was never phased by goatse, tubgirl, etc, I think I've just been scared for life.

Re:err, what? (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025971)

Brings a whole new meaning to "dangling participle"...

I certainly hope ... (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023409)

... this is successful. I would like to see (and have) other options available besides Exchange. Choice leads to competition, which gives innovation a kick in the pants and keeps prices in check. I just hope the switchover doesn't cause problems for my clients who currently use Comcast for e-mail services.

Comcast (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19023421)

They have been know to make horrible technology decisions in the past.

Re:Comcast (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19023471)

..and try to fix them too.

Re:Comcast (1)

Avatar8 (748465) | more than 7 years ago | (#19026215)

Agreed.

Regardless of how bulletproof, flawless or otherwise outstanding Zimbra may be, Comcast will likely screw up the implementation in such a way as to reflect badly on Zimbra and ostracize even more of their customers in the process.

Oh my aching grammar! (4, Informative)

swajr (992561) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023497)

Original:

Zimbra has been picking up steam for a while now, and appears to really be challenging Microsoft in a area that Exchange has been dominated in.
Fixed:

Zimbra has been picking up steam for a while now, and appears to be challenging Microsoft in an area that Exchange has dominated.
Maybe I'm a huge nerd, but grammatical errors like these drive me crazy!

Re:Oh my aching grammar! (1)

swajr (992561) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023565)

Here I am correcting another person's grammar, and my own correction has a flaw too. That comma in the middle of the sentence should be omitted. Oops! ;)

Recursive grammar fixing (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19024811)

I particularly liked the way you corrected your correction with a sentence that again demonstrated your previous error. DEATH TO EXCESSIVE CURSOR USAGE!

Re:Recursive grammar fixing (1)

swajr (992561) | more than 7 years ago | (#19026717)

I used a compound sentence in my correction. A comma was warranted. :)

Re:Recursive grammar fixing (1)

Puff of Logic (895805) | more than 7 years ago | (#19027609)

I used a compound sentence in my correction. A comma was warranted. :)
Shouldn't you have used a semi-colon here? ;)

Re:Oh my aching grammar! (1)

killmenow (184444) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023737)

Maybe I'm a huge nerd...
Maybe?!

Re:Oh my aching grammar! (0, Redundant)

symbolic (11752) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023865)

Better:

Zimbra has been picking up steam for a while now, and appears to be challenging Microsoft in an area dominated by Exchange.

Re:Oh my aching grammar! (0, Redundant)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024005)

I suspect it was supposed to be:

...and appears to really be challenging Microsoft in an area that Exchange has been dominant in.

Re:Oh my aching grammar! (1)

symbolic (11752) | more than 7 years ago | (#19027229)

You have a dangling preposition, which isn't correct grammar ('in' at the end of the sentence). "...an area in which Exhange has been dominant" would be correct.

Re:Oh my aching grammar! (0, Redundant)

Stinking Pig (45860) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023881)

grammar errors are annoying... a logical error in which the meaning is reversed is beyond annoying, especially in a forum of admins, coders and wannabe coders.

"...area that Exchange has been dominated in." means Exchange is losing
"...area that Exchange has dominated in." means Exchange is winning /cue submitter's annoyed "I barely speak english and you people are being unfair" message in 5, 4, 3...

Re:Oh my aching grammar! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19024339)

you CHAT me, i am BRAZIL !!!!!111!!!1eleven!!!!

Re:Oh my aching grammar! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19025265)

Even more annoying.
Do not underestimate the overall comprehension level of others and do not overestimate your own comprehension level. If you saw the error, don't worry, we all saw it as well. We did not need your supreme knowledge to point it out to us and explain what the author really meant. We are capable of doing that on our own. I guess you must be feeling a little down today you needed to lift your spirits with a nice dose of "I'm better then you" and "Let me point out YOUR failures" to others. Did it work? Do you feel better and more confident about yourself now?

Re:Oh my aching grammar! (1)

swajr (992561) | more than 7 years ago | (#19026771)

You're so full of angst! Relax. :)

Not really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19024347)

If you were a real nerd/geek, you would not bother to fix this. You are a wanna be.

Re:Oh my aching grammar! (1)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024625)

Original:

Zimbra has been picking up steam for a while now, and appears to really be challenging Microsoft in a area that Exchange has been dominated in.
Fixed:

Zimbra has been picking up steam for a while now, and appears to be challenging Microsoft in an area that Exchange has dominated.

I'm not so sure about this. The last I looked at the numbers, Exchange had about 40% of the total e-mail server market, and only a tiny fraction of the commercial e-mail service to end user market; seeing as Exchange's stronghold has been within medium and large business operations. Maybe the original was more correct than your version.

Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (2, Interesting)

Darundal (891860) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023523)

What is it like setting up, using, maintaining, etc...?

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (5, Informative)

Da Fokka (94074) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023603)

We (a small IT company) have been using it for a couple of months now and my experiences are very good. Of course I don't know how well Zimbra will scale, but for us it works really wel. I do have some minor complaints (for instance, when creating a new mail filter I'd like to have the option to apply the filter to the existing e-mails), but on the whole I'm quite content.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (1)

EvilRyry (1025309) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023973)

I certainly hope Zimbra scales well seeing that Comcast has a rather large customer base.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (1)

KermodeBear (738243) | more than 7 years ago | (#19026269)

The new Embarq [myembarq.com] portal uses Zimbra for web mail. Works great - thousands of users chugging away.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (3, Insightful)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023637)

I found it pretty simple. They have a pre-configured VMWare image you can download and play with, I found it incredibly handy and quick to play with. Seems pretty promising, but I don't know if I like the "offline client" it is a resource hog.. I would love to see them add a plugin for the thunderbird-sunbird calendar tools.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (2, Interesting)

Doppleganger (66109) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023829)

You can use sunbird/lightning just fine with Zimbra's iCal support, no additional plugin needed. The only thing lacking is the ability to send out meeting invites, but that doesn't seem to be in sunbird yet. Is there any other support you've found missing?

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (3, Informative)

larkost (79011) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024317)

Except that Zimbra uses iCal, not CalDAV, so you can't use the calendars from multiple computers at once. They do have a really nice iSync plugin on the Mac side that allows you to sync your calendars out of iCal.app, and that winds up having the same effect.

I am trying to get them to allow you to disable the automatic event notification emails that go out to people you put on the events (this is really annoying when you want to do these notifications yourself).

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (1)

tenchiken (22661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025809)

Zimbra can use multiple calendars, and the beginnings of CALDAV is in the source tree as well.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (2, Interesting)

masonjd (657070) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024053)

I've installed the Open Source version and am using it for my family email. It works great. The web interface is really impressive but I also have some family members connecting Thunderbird to it and it works without a hitch. Set up was a breeze. I used a HowToForge guide [howtoforge.com] and it worked great. As for maintaining, the forums have been extremely useful. Overall I'm very pleased.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (3, Insightful)

Not_Wiggins (686627) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024679)

If you're setting this up for a small outfit (like, I host email for my friends/family), then the minimum requirements may be a bit high (cached link here. [64.233.167.104] ) On an Intel 32-bit machine (recommended at least 2GHz):
minimum memory: 2G
recommended memory: 4G.

That's for a box dedicated to being a mail server and webmail/calendaring client (forget about sharing it with other hosting needs, like a Webserver).

For a company (small or whatever), having a dedicated box for this sort of thing is reasonable and expected... and, please forgive the pun, the suite looks sweet. 8)

But, as an individual/uber-small hoster, those requirements put it outside the range of "host this on an old box."
That's not to say that Zimbra was targeted at me to start (so, please don't take it as a complaint). I just wanted to break the news (hopefully gently) to those hobbyists that were getting excited about hosting it. 8/

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (1)

Ryan Amos (16972) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025175)

Those are for production environments; in other words, a bunch of users.

Their testing environment specs are much easier to attain (1G ram, 1.5 gHz machine, RAM is cheap enough that even your "old box server" should have a gig.) If you just want to do something like this in a small environment, a reasonably new old box with $100 of memory should do the trick.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (1)

bugg_tb (581786) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025227)

Well I use it on my box at home so I can access all my stuff easily, and it runs fine on a 2.6 Intel with 1GB Ram, with a few users.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (3, Informative)

cooley (261024) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025667)

Don't let those specs get you down too much, friend. I'm successfully running Zimbra (Open Source Edition) on a box nowhere near those specs:

I just recently put together a Zimbra server for my company. We'll move it to a better machine (with a SCSI RAID5 Array) later, but I built it on an old machine just to make sure Zimbra was what we were looking for in a new mail server to replace our Red Hat w/Sendmail box (and boy, is it ever!).

The machine I'm running it on is an 800MHz Duron with 1.0 GB of RAM and two 40GB IDE drives. It's running an unmodified Ubuntu Dapper Drake "Desktop" install.

Besides Zimbra, the only services I've added to the box are VNCServer and BIND.

This server supports mail and calendering for about 15 employees, including a helpdesk used by our outside clients.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (1)

masonjd (657070) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025771)

My initial install had only 256 MB of RAM and it worked just fine. I have since upgraded to 512 MB of RAM and while it is much snappier I could have survived with less.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (1)

tenchiken (22661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025853)

I am running Zimbra on a Xen instance off a Pentium-D with 1GB of Ram (512mb allocated). Works perfect.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19026041)

I have some experience running it on Ubuntu...

My system config is 256MB Ram + some swap and 10G HDD on 4 CPU Conroe servers and it appears to work well enough for a single user test account...

http://stacktrace.org/index_html/20070212-Zimbra-o n-Ubuntu64 [stacktrace.org]

You probably need more beef if you are dealing with 25-100 people all pushing around 1GB+ email accounts.

Re:Anyone here have any experiances with Zimbra? (2, Informative)

dagar (84678) | more than 7 years ago | (#19026671)

We got hit with a virus on our Exchange server a little over a year ago. We migrated to Zimbra. We have about 65 users. The conversion went pretty smooth. Administration is very simple. They made an excellent admin gui. It is very easy to do every day tasks with it. The 1 feature that I miss is tasks/todos. This is supposed to come in version 5 due out in October, along with having IM, documents (wiki), and some other features.
Full system recovery is a little rocky, but is being adressed.
My favorite feature is the search capabilities. I can do all kinds of searching for emails/contacts that I could not do in Outlook/Exchange 2000.

Why'd comcast change? (2, Interesting)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023589)

FTS:

Add in support for Samba Domain Controllers and Linux Authentication, Offline Access and Evolution Support and we might finally have our long desired Open Source Exchange killer.
So let me get this straight -- we're finally getting an Open Source Exchange, and now you're hoping we have something that kills it?

Seriously, though, I'd be interested to see Comcast's reasoning on changing to Zimbra from Exchange -- might make it a lot easier to justify similar changes elsewhere.

Re:Why'd comcast change? (3, Informative)

jmyers (208878) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023751)

"Seriously, though, I'd be interested to see Comcast's reasoning on changing to Zimbra from Exchange"

I very seriously doubt that comcast is switching from exchange. The article does not say. They are probably switching from sendmail + some webmail app to Zimbra.

Re:Why'd comcast change? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19024327)

This has to do with the contract that Comcast had with AT&T to handle the customer email system. Comcast decided to take take it in house.

This is for the customer facing email, which as I recall is pretty standard SMTP stuff, internal systems will still run Exchange.

As far as "why this package", I couldn't tell you. I wasn't in on those discussions.

Yes, I work for Comcast.

Re:Why'd comcast change? (1)

rthille (8526) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025933)


Do you know if AT&T was still using InterMail (from Openwave) to service the email? If so, that's interesting to me, since Zimbra was started by ex-openwave people, though no one I met when I worked there.

Re:Why'd comcast change? (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024439)

I also want to know why was the reasons. One of comcasts Major stockholders is Microsoft. On top of that they have a HUGE Microsoft love in the company to the point that unless you cant do it with a MSFT product your project will be shot down.

There must be something huge in this that Exchange can not do or meet.

Re:Why'd comcast change? (2, Insightful)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024969)

There must be something huge in this that Exchange can not do or meet.

Maybe you're barking up the wrong tree completely. Do you actually think Comcast is using Exchange to supply mail service to all their customers? I'm one of those customers and I know they instructed me to use POP/IMAP for the protocols. I can't even imagine trying to scale an Exchange server up to that number of users. Maybe it is possible, but it seems highly unlikely.

I strongly suspect Comcast is migrating from Sendmail or some other common e-mail server that is built to scale well. I don't know where the idea that they are moving from Exchange come from though.

Not completely Open Source (4, Informative)

bleh-of-the-huns (17740) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023617)

Looking at the comparison between the open source version, and the commercial versions, much of the functionality that exchange excells in (namely corperate enterprise messeging), is not available in the OS version. The big glaring ones being outlook support and mobile support (atleast for me anyways). Although it is pretty slick, unless your paying for additional functionality, it is no exchange killer. However, I suspect licensing is significantly cheaper then exchange's licensing.

Re:Not completely Open Source (1)

ajayrockrock (110281) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023939)

Their pricing: the "network edition" costs 18 bucks per user per year, 25 bucks per user per year if you want Outlook/iSync stuff. One thing that I don't like is that you can only buy them in 25-user packs which blows when you add that 26th employee but whatever.

The open vesion is fairly feature rich but misses some minor stuff. At my new company we might actually just use the OS one for a while since there's only 5 of us and I can figure out the backup/restore procedures myself (dump the database/ldap and copy the files?)

--Ajay

Re:Not completely Open Source (4, Interesting)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024255)

Most of the open source groupware systems seem to have a non-free "pro" or "enterprise" version. If you're looking for something that's completely open source, you might want to try out Citadel [citadel.org] [http://www.citadel.org]. It is community-developed and doesn't have the multi-tiered approach. Fully turnkey, nothing to integrate manually, and it has a nice ajax-based front end too. An Outlook connector is currently in beta, too.

Re:Not completely Open Source (1)

FFFish (7567) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025565)

I'm from the Citadel-86 old-school... please explain how Citadel == groupware. I'm sincerely curious how you see it differing from any other messaging system.

Re:Not completely Open Source (1)

FFFish (7567) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025885)

D-oh, nevermind. I've started reading the page you linked.

Re:Not completely Open Source (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19026113)

For those who want to try it without having to, you know, do anything, you can download the appliance [citadel.org] . I'm doing this now, and if I'm still at work when it completes, I'll maybe write something about it. We're currently looking at bringing mail in-house (outsourced now, to some incompetents) and they want Outlook (yuck.)

Re:Not completely Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19025487)

Scalix has Outlook support; I'd consider it more of an Exchange killer, or at least a better drop-in replacement/upgrade.

Re:Not completely Open Source (1)

tenchiken (22661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025905)

You really don't need (ie, won't use) the Exchange functionality, especailly now that the Desktop sync is available. The Web GUI is faster and no where near the hog that Exchange is.

Exchange compatibility NOT free / opensource (2, Informative)

ebonkyre (520924) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023669)

Outlook sync is only available at the highest level of paid service.

Choices (5, Informative)

packethead (322873) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023701)

I did an eval on Zimbra vs. Scalix about a year ago. I decided to roll out Scalix, because at that time, Zimbra did not support mailbox delegation, did not have a mature Outlook MAPI connector (or one at all) and required too much DEU retraining. Scalix Web Access looks just like Outlook.

Now having just said this, Scalix is a pig! It' is unstable, uses A very clunky hack of Tomcat, has no backup or restore functionaility, the Outlook connector is missing key features that Outlook/Exchange users live by, and an incident-based support pricing model that, quite frankly, is a racket. (I know packethead, tell us what you really think).

I sincerly hope Zimbra has gotten more mature and can actually put a dent in M$'s dominance.

Re:Choices (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19024041)

Do we care about your little piss-ant LAN-party install? NO WE DO NOT. Stop masturbating in your sister's underware. Geeeeeze.

Re:Choices (1)

div_2n (525075) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024173)

Did the issues deal with shared calendaring by any chance? They have allegedly made great strides in that department over the last year.

Re:Choices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19024877)

doing shared calendaring with scalix myself with (admittedly) a very large calendar. I'm also running the very latest version of Scalix. To put it bluntly: it sucks. To be more specific, *Very* long load times waiting for the calendar to finish loading the universe. Wacky behavior w/respect to privileges (not able to change some appts. and removing and recreating sometimes helps). Impossibility getting Outlook to remember to keep your calendar stored in a public folder available from the calendar shortcut after restart of Outlook. Extremely difficult (as in multiple tries) to import a list of exported appts. (including dropped recurring appts.).

To address contacts, I would refer you to the above since the same problems seem to exist there as well.

Re:Choices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19024747)

Ha!

My thoughts exactly. I followed the same path you did and I have to say that for my (very few) users, the Scalix solution is (to put it in one word) unwieldy.

I've been using it and trying my best to keep up with the bugs and the issues and all the annoyances that keep cropping up and I'm simply unsatisfied. To make matters worse, I'm fielding twice as many problems from my users as I was with just simply using Postfix and Cyrus Imapd.

Hrmm...

I feel your pain packethead...

My choice as imap server is... Citadel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19024781)

I've chosen citadel.org to keep my emails. Never seen something that easy to get in place and that easy to live with. No configuration hazards, and .debs in place. just add apt url, get it, done.

Re:Choices (1)

shlashdot (689477) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024879)

yes the Scalix vs Zimbra question is a tough one. They are both missing important things and I agree with what you say about Scalix. Still, for a small company, especially that doesn't want a web-based client, Zimbra's licensing structure is basically saying they don't want my business. I would like to say that Scalix has so far not lost any data for us, and does work. knock on wood.

I hope they both continue to improve.

Re:Choices (1)

papason (4755) | more than 7 years ago | (#19026263)

Well I decided to use a different MTA with replacing Exchange, Kerio Mail Server. While no MTA is perfect, this one suits me just fine.

Too many problems with this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19023811)

Try to migrate an Exchange installation to this product. After you submit your resignation to the client, you'll know what I mean. Any product that wants to seriously challenge MS Exchange must have a clear and *reliable* means of Exchange migration, to include the thousands of Exchange 5.5 sites that are still out there. Zimbra fails it.

(Before replying by regurgitating their marketing hype, please have tried yourself to convert major multi-site Exchange installations, 5.5 and above. Otherwise, pipe down with your uniformed self)

Even if you start anew with Zimbra, the obvious and glaring loss of popular (and even common) features is enough to cause full scale user revolt. Oh and do you have handhelds to sync? Guess what product you have to buy to sync them to Zimbra? You guessed it, Microsoft Outlook! (and Zimbra charges an extra license fee for that too).

Re:Too many problems with this (1)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 7 years ago | (#19023891)

Oh and do you have handhelds to sync? Guess what product you have to buy to sync them to Zimbra? You guessed it, Microsoft Outlook! (and Zimbra charges an extra license fee for that too).

I do believe that Zimbra includes a SyncML server, which should enable you to sync your calendar/events/contacts from anywhere you can reach the server over the internet. I have seen great SyncML clients from Synthesis, and there are several free-beer and/or free-speech syncML clients for PDA's out there..

Re:Too many problems with this (1)

mac123 (25118) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025431)

>>I do believe that Zimbra includes a SyncML server

No, it doesn't

Re:Too many problems with this (2, Funny)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024119)

Are you French? No really. Because you SOUND French.

Re:Too many problems with this (1)

marcmac (105570) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025209)

Zimbra offers a tool for migrating from an exchange server, and a tool for importing a local PST file. (Aimed at admins and users, respectively). Syncing handhelds does not require the purchase of outlook - that information is just plain wrong.

Even if you start anew with Zimbra, the obvious and glaring loss of popular (and even common) features is enough to cause full scale user revolt.
You have a list?

Re:Too many problems with this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19027389)

"Zimbra offers a tool for migrating from an exchange server, and a tool for importing a local PST file. (Aimed at admins and users, respectively). Syncing handhelds does not require the purchase of outlook - that information is just plain wrong."

K, just as I said before, please don't comment unless *you* yourself have actually tried to use these tools to migrate large multi-site Exchange installations.

Since you haven't, you have simply regurgitated the hype found on the website, just as I predicted someone would. I have actually used their tools, and they are extremely lacking and buggy and simply DO NOT WORK in many cases. Even the gimpy pst importer doesn't pull everything over. If you had used any of the tools in a business context, you'd know this.

Goddamnit, I hate people who interject a company's marketing crap when they've never used the product themselves. Or theyve only used it for the most basic of purpopses and not for real world applications. Go look at the damn forums to get a handle on what works and what just sucks about this product.

Does it work with Blackberry? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19023839)

It's Exchange killer at croporate level only if it can work with Blackberry (server).

Re:Does it work with Blackberry? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19024419)

they do have a version that works with blackberry - my problem is they dont have a version that works on solaris yet

I would love to give it a shot (2, Interesting)

shaitand (626655) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024087)

The only problem is that Zimbra isn't in the Ubuntu repository. In fact, none of the so called exchange killers that I could find are in the Ubuntu repository.

Re:I would love to give it a shot (4, Informative)

oldosadmin (759103) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024527)

That's because zimbra basically takes over your whole system. Own web+tomcat server. Own MTA. Own LDAP+MySQL. Own Amavis. We basically setup a RHEL box with Zimbra and said "it's an appliance" and let it do the zimbra thing.

Re:I would love to give it a shot (3, Insightful)

shaitand (626655) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025067)

That sounds like quite the pain in the ass. Just the same, it should be in the repository and the other pieces can be dependencies. Install Ubuntu server, enable repositories, apt-get update, apt-get install zimbra. At that point all the dependencies work themselves out and a basic functional zimbra with the most commonly needed configuration comes out of the box. After another 10 minutes or less of tweaking you have a zimbra server. AND you can run other services on it if you are putting it in an office with 10-20 users instead of 50,000!

They could go the easy route and have the package conflict with other MTA's (all that other stuff can just run on alternative ports). I know, I know, sounds like a great idea. Why don't I get right on that? *grumble grumble*

Re:I would love to give it a shot (1)

toganet (176363) | more than 7 years ago | (#19026275)

Maybe this could a new project -- "Zimbuntu" ?

Re:I would love to give it a shot (4, Informative)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025263)

One of the open source Exchange killers is Citadel [citadel.org] , which there definitely are .deb's and repositories for. The reason you won't find Zimbra, Scalix, etc. there is because those products are not "true" open source; they're basically just stripped down versions of commercial products. The only reason Zimbra and Scalix are quasi open source in the first place is because they needed access to open source components like Postfix, MySQL, etc. Citadel is true community-developed open source.

Re:I would love to give it a shot (1)

jaseuk (217780) | more than 7 years ago | (#19026761)

If it has no Outlook connector then it isn't an exchange killer.

Jason

Re:I would love to give it a shot (1)

dothebart (1098945) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025295)

citadel.org has debs already in place. though not yet in the ubuntu universe, but that will happen soon. Its less complicated to install and won't bring you a java memory hog.

Try it with VMware... (2, Informative)

wandazulu (265281) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024101)

They provide a pre-built virtual machine [vmware.com] to try out a full installation with no setup.

I've played with it and it's basically "email server in a box"...just turn it on and point your mail app at it. I can't speak for specific features because it's been awhile now since I last checked it out.

Not a comperable move (5, Insightful)

AK Marc (707885) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024577)

So, Comcast is moving customers from something to something else, and that means that one of those somethings compares with Microsoft Exchange. I'd have to presume that Exchange wasn't what Comcast is moving from. ISPs want mail servers. They expect that mail will be relatively independent between users. They presume that administrators want to have nothing to do with emails inside the email boxes. They presume that if a user calls up and says "I deleted an email and I want you to get it back" that a polite "go away" is a sufficient answer.

None of that has anything to do with what Exchange is aimed for. Exchange is not used for any major ISP that I'm aware of (not even Microsoft's public email services), nor should it be. Exchange is built to integrate with Domain Services. It's made so that you can have resource scheduling integrated with calendars and busy notification. It's made so that a secretary can log into her boss's account and check all his emails and send emails as herself or under his name as if he sent them himself. It's made so that when the idiot sends out the video of the latest commercial he thinks is cute that there is only one copy of the video on the server, and the emails point to it, rather than replicating it 1000 times.

Exchange is not a mail server. It is a messaging server (with integrated calendar functionality). This submission is written by someone that is either too stupid to know the difference, or who knows that the comparison is stupid and is just trying to drum up support for a product through misrepresentation. Either way, though the product being touted may be interesting, the submission is crap.

Re:Not a comparable move (1)

marcmac (105570) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025131)

I'd have to presume that Exchange wasn't what Comcast is moving from.
This is correct, they were on another large hosted solution.

None of that has anything to do with what Exchange is aimed for. Exchange is not used for any major ISP that I'm aware of (not even Microsoft's public email services), nor should it be. Exchange is built to integrate with Domain Services. It's made so that you can have resource scheduling integrated with calendars and busy notification. It's made so that a secretary can log into her boss's account and check all his emails and send emails as herself or under his name as if he sent them himself. It's made so that when the idiot sends out the video of the latest commercial he thinks is cute that there is only one copy of the video on the server, and the emails point to it, rather than replicating it 1000 times.
While your statements about Exchange may be correct, your (implied) statements about Zimbra are not.
  • Resource scheduling, integrated in calendar with busy notification - Zimbra has that.
  • Delegated accounts (secretary/boss) - Zimbra has that, for email and calendar.
  • Single instance store (1000 copies sent, one copy on disk) - Zimbra has that
I'm not claiming that Comcast is planning to OFFER all of these features - but they certainly exist in Zimbra.

Re:Not a comperable move (1)

dedazo (737510) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025405)

not even Microsoft's public email services

Every MX machine on every MSFT domain is an Exchange box. Maybe not Hotmail, but everything else is. The fact that it's configured as an SMTP relay doesn't mean it's not running Exchange.

Re:Not a comperable move (2, Interesting)

tenchiken (22661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025957)

Exchange is not a mail server. It is a messaging server (with integrated calendar functionality).


And I am just going to have to conclude that you know snot and didn't RTFA, or bother looking at the links in the submission. If you did, you would notice that Zimbra is also a messaging server (with integrated calendaring functionality), that also can manage directory services and is Open Source.

Either way, the product being touted is interesting, but your comment is crap.

Re:Not a comperable move (1)

Single GNU Theory (8597) | more than 7 years ago | (#19027153)

Exchange is not used for any major ISP that I'm aware of


Roadrunner is Exchange-based, at least where I live.

It's nice.. (1)

sarhjinian (94086) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024673)

..but it has a few strikes against it, at least for SMBs:
  • The subscription model can make it price-competitive with Exchange, which is a hard sell in some places.
  • The subscription model makes less than palatable for people who like to own their software. People have trouble buying software with a built-in poison pill.
  • The more amusing features aren't part of the OS version (mobile support, Outlook connector, HA/DR)
Compared to Exchange on a Select agreement, or hosted Exchange, it's not bad at all. For smaller SMBs, though, it doesn't quite fit right.

Open source NOVL killer (1)

alucinor (849600) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024689)

"Open Source Exchange killer"

More like an open source Groupwise killer. Later on Novell. Wonder if Red Hat is going to be purchasing another company soon ...?

Nice Slashvertisement! (2, Informative)

DogDude (805747) | more than 7 years ago | (#19024841)

Well, this is certainly a nice Slashvertisement, but I fail to see what Zimbra has to do with Exchange. The both do email, which is nice, but anybody who thinks that people use Exchange exclusively for email has no idea what they're talking about. You might as well say that GNUCash is a Quickbooks killer. But, I do hope that Slashdot was at least paid well for this ridiculous plug.

Re:Nice Slashvertisement! (1)

boardnutz (1098995) | more than 7 years ago | (#19027441)

I am not a zimbra employee, just somebody who is very happy about my recent Zimbra rollout... I run Zimbra against an external LDAP directory, which also serves as the AUTH server for my Samba PDC. Don't speak on things you don't know... Yes, they both do email... They also both do: Calendaring (shared, free-busy) Address book (Shared if you like) Resource bookings Mobile Sync to phones (no blackberry, just like Exchange, you gotsta pay da man for that) Web interface Global Address List Zimbra does, that Exchange doesn't... Automatic brick level backups (even if it is only to it's own drives by default) Free integrated Anti-spam (not sure if Excahnge has this yet) Free integrated Anti-virus iSync connector for iCal and Apple address book Lots of cool Zimlets (google maps that recognize an address in an email and will map it for you, Skype plugin, asterisk plugin in the works I believe)

zimbra kills nothing (1)

DragonTHC (208439) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025117)

I just started using it for a few clients and I wish I hadn't.

it's extremely peculiar to install,
it doesn't reside well with others,
it crashes and refuses to start for no apparent reason,
it has way to many log files to be troubleshoot,
it eats memory for breakfast,
it doesn't support installs in a custom directory.
it's their way or the highway.

Zimbra support is next to useless.

comcast is a bunch of morons for trying to use this as an enterprise suite.
it will work well with dedicated servers and dedicated staff.

Not an Exchange killer yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19025239)

The *REAL* Exchange killer will be CalDAV [osafoundation.org] . Yet another proprietary calendaring/scheduling back end from Zimbra means competing with MS on their turf - and we all know how that always turns out. But when F/OSS apps implement open standards, they kick ass. Think HTTP/HTML - Apache. Think SMTP/POP/IMAP - Sendmail, Postfix, Cyrus, etc. These are the most important protocols and applications around. It's time to do the same with calendaring.

Proprietary calendaring solutions only extend as far as your local implementation. I want to coordinate my schedule with more people than that. I want my coordinate my calendar with my family, with my friends, with my vendors, with my collegues at other institutions, with local town events, with my kid's school - NOT just my co-workers. I don't want to care if they use webmail, crackberries, or whatever. This requires open standards. The standards exist. They are pretty new. Now we just need good reference implementations. If Zimbra does this, I predict they will own the market.

Bedework [bedework.org] already supports CalDAV. Bedework/Sakai integration is taking place. Lightning [mozilla.org] and Sunbird [mozilla.org] work on top of CalDAV. CalDAV is happening. So Zimbra: please please please get on CalDAV, so we don't have to continue suffering the interminable curse of incompatible proprietary calendering protocols. As we've seen, when open standards take off, even Microsoft has to play along. It's time.

I've really wanted to play with this (1)

xrayspx (13127) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025407)

Zimbra really seems to want to be the only thing on a machine though. I've reverted to Mail.app and UW-IMAP until I get the gumption to build a machine just for Zimbra.

I'd agree that it's Enterprise Ready, having seen a couple admin friends roll it out to their enterprise, seems pretty sweet. Their licensing model looks pretty sane too. Full functionality in the OSS version, then pay extra for all the Exchange/Outlook integration features, hopefully that brings in enough cash to keep development going for all us folks that don't need those plugins.

Really has Linux Autentication? (1)

misleb (129952) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025607)

I'm looking at the Admin manual and it seems like the only external authentication scheme supported is Active Directory. Looks like it can use OpenLDAP to store information about users, but the authentication itself is AD only. WTF??

Can anyone clarify this?

http://www.zimbra.com/docs/ne/latest/administratio n_guide/5_Zimbra_LDAP.5.1.html#1036410 [zimbra.com]

-matthew

Re:Really has Linux Autentication? (1)

tenchiken (22661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025999)

No, you can use regular LDAP for authentication, or you can integrate any other system in via preauth keys.

Re:Really has Linux Autentication? (1)

misleb (129952) | more than 7 years ago | (#19026827)

What would an example of "any other system" be and what are "preauth keys?"

-matthew

Yawn (1)

bogie (31020) | more than 7 years ago | (#19025931)

I've been hearing this for a decade now. Frankly I'm much more impressed with kerio Mail Server.

Choice : OBM has already all that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19026647)

OBM (http://obm.aliasource.org/ [aliasource.org] ), a true free messaging solution has already all that.
- full web interface with some ajax (drag & drop in calendar)
- multi-domain and multi-server handling
- auto configuration daemon for postfix (allowing ldap configuration while preserving local map performance)
- Outlook connector (the mapi way, only component that is not free)
- Thunderbird / Ligthning connector
- PDA connectivity via Funambol
- Support for Samba domain controller
- CRM functionnalities
- Projet management
- ...

This project is gaining great momentum in France where it surpasses Zimbra with projects up to 100 000 users, many ministries,...

Hula? (1)

k1e0x (1040314) | more than 7 years ago | (#19026659)

We had an exchange killer at one point, Hula.. but Novell didn't release enough of the code and eventually stoped suporting the project.

From what I know its still opensource and could be taken up by people but there just dosnt seem to be intrest in it.

Re:Hula? (1)

mverwijs (815917) | more than 7 years ago | (#19027437)

Funny you should mention Hula. Look what I found the otehr day:

"Messaging Architects Announces the Purchase of NetMail and the Hula Project

From January 30, 2007 onwards, Messaging Architects will own all of the associated Intellectual Property,
including full copyright and all trademarks for NetMail and the Myrealbox.com public email server.

In addition, leadership of the Hula open source project is being assigned to Messaging Architects."

www.hula.org [hula.org]

Fp Sp0nge (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19026783)

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