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Two US States Restrict Used CD Sales

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the papers-please dept.

Media 500

DrBenway sends us to Ars Technica for a report that Florida and Utah have placed draconian restrictions on the sale of used music CDs; Wisconsin and Rhode Island may soon follow suit. In Florida, stores have to hold on to CDs for 30 days before they can sell them — for store credit only, not cash. Quoting: "No, you won't spend any time in jail, but you'll certainly feel like a criminal once the local record shop makes copies of all of your identifying information and even collects your fingerprints. Such is the state of affairs in Florida, which now has the dubious distinction of being so anal about the sale of used music CDs that record shops there are starting to get out of the business of dealing with used content because they don't want to pay a $10,000 bond for the 'right' to treat their customers like criminals."

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500 comments

Holy SHIT that sucks. (5, Funny)

SadGeekHermit (1077125) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030361)

Makes me glad I live in New York, where there are used CD stores everywhere and the stoned counterperson barely notices you.

Hey! Is this first post? I think it is! Umm... W00t?

Re:Holy SHIT that sucks. (4, Insightful)

SpeedyDX (1014595) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030703)

I was gonna say that I lived in Toronto, where there are also used CD stores everywhere, then feel all cocky about it ... then I remembered the Canadian government is charging a levy on blank CDs. Sigh.

Re:Holy SHIT that sucks. (1)

alexultima (850430) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030825)

the Canadian government is charging a levy on blank CDs.
so buy an iPod. (ok... those are really expensive)

wait... what would happen if they made cd's that could only be used for data... no need for the tax.

this does NOT suck (5, Interesting)

caffeinemessiah (918089) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030779)

This does NOT suck.

In fact, this could be exactly what we need. This is clearly such a ludicrous measure that if it goes into law everywhere, the apathy-riddled consumer might actually sit up and notice. When average Jimbo down the street gets hit with fees and taxes and fingerprints and anal probes while trying to sell his old stash of CDs, there should at least be a little more awareness about what the RIAA f**kheads are trying to do. Hopefully, that will lead to consumer action and eventually enough agitation to overturn this measure and also place some iron clamps on what the RIAA can and cannot do.

In other words, the more ludicrous the little battles are, the better chance we have of winning the war. Now the lawyers here can strike me down.

Re:this does NOT suck (4, Insightful)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030891)

Really. Who the hell signed the deal on this???
Anti consumer, anti business. Pro RIAA.
I guess Craigslist will get a surge for CD sellers/buyers in those states for the time being.
Once they criminialze your average Joe from selling used CDs person-to-person like it's a controlled substance, the pitchforks and torches will come out.

This is why fark has a Florida tag (5, Insightful)

cashman73 (855518) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030365)

So much for buying used CDs from some dude at a garage sale. Is the MAFIAA going to go after garage sales, too? Where does the witch hunt end?

Re:This is why fark has a Florida tag (2, Insightful)

Tuoqui (1091447) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030463)

After everyone has bought at least 10 CDs filled with garbage songs and bought a different version for your computer, your CD player, your MP3 player and your car stereo, etc...

They want your money any way they can get it. After you've bought your CD it is yours so instead of selling it to some stupid store sell it to your buddy.

A fancy way for these guys to get around the restriction. Heres a $10 voucher for store credit... Dont worry you can redeem it for cash after this transaction is over. Boom all nice and legal like after all its two separate transactions.

wow (5, Interesting)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030393)

I moved to Florida roughly 10 months ago. This is the first I have ever heard of this. I've been googling around trying to find a reference to this in any type of local news media and I can't. Nothing so far. Maybe I'm missing it, but it seems like something of this magnitude would garner some attention.

Re:wow (5, Insightful)

flar2 (938689) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030445)

You would think this would get some attention, but the whole reason the music industry gets away with these ridiculous laws is because nobody is paying attention. Besides, why would we trust the media to tell us about something like this? They probably have the same owners as the record companies.

Re:wow (4, Interesting)

daeg (828071) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030635)

As someone who worked in Florida local media (WTSP-TV in St. Pete), I can tell you that Florida media completely ignores stories of magnitude and focuses on the retarded, weird shit. Supposedly this didn't happen much before the 2000 election when Florida became such a laughing stock.

Want to know how shit like this is passed? Read this [tampabays10.com]. I realize it is written horribly, but the video speaks for itself: the Florida legislature votes largely by proxy. Most legislators do not attend the full sessions, when they attend at all.

What do you expect from a state that fields Rhonda Storms [google.com]? (For a kick, read the first result description.)

Perhaps you can stop the crooks from stealing (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030395)

Round these parts crooks steal CDs and fence them through used record stores like this. If crooks stopped do thing, then you wouldn't be treated like a crook.

Re:Perhaps you can stop the crooks from stealing (1)

Travelsonic (870859) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030455)

So punish for the innocent for no wrongdoing? Try again... and no, you can't try the same answer again.

Re:Perhaps you can stop the crooks from stealing (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030623)

All kinds of things get fenced. By the same logic, we should ban selling any used goods. That used VCR you just bought, why that could be the proceeds of a crime.

What a bunch of fucking idiots. (-1, Flamebait)

Cracked Pottery (947450) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030407)

Leave it to Republican run hellholes to think up this kind of crap. This is what you get when you have vending machines legislatures that sell laws for cash. God save us from these assholes eventually.

Re:What a bunch of fucking idiots. (3, Insightful)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030517)

I lived in Utah for 2 years and it's a very nice place. Far from a hellhole. Now the PEOPLE on the other hand....

Re:What a bunch of fucking idiots. (5, Funny)

Nymz (905908) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030619)

Leave it to Republican run hellholes to think up this kind of crap. This is what you get when you have vending machines legislatures that sell laws for cash. God save us from these assholes eventually.

I AGREE COMPLETELY!!!

First those Republicans required those Parental Advisory [wikipedia.org] stickers on CDs, then that Republican President signed the DMCA [wikipedia.org] in law, now this. If those Republicans keep this up I'm moving to France!

Re:What a bunch of fucking idiots. (3, Informative)

djh101010 (656795) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030663)

You thundering moron. Wisconsin is run by the democrats, the idiot governor here doesn't trust good people to be honest and instead caves to criminals and the RIAA. Why don't you actually get some facts before spewing your partisan crap.

We've been (this) close, twice, to getting rid of the criminal Doyle, but for reasons dictated by emotion rather than logic, the idiot got elected and then reelected. Yet he trusts criminals to be the only ones armed, and the RIAA to dicate how we listen to our CDs. So, maybe, just maybe, you could look at the actual situation next time, before guessing that it's the eeevul Republicans' fault, mmmkay? Thanks awfully.

Re:What a bunch of fucking idiots. (1)

Glytch (4881) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030817)

>the idiot governor here doesn't trust good people to be honest and instead caves to criminals and the RIAA.

But you repeat yourself.

Re:What a bunch of fucking idiots. (1)

djh101010 (656795) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030857)

>the idiot governor here doesn't trust good people to be honest and instead caves to criminals and the RIAA.

But you repeat yourself.
Yeah, sorry about that. But his failings go so far beyond things like "I should be trusted to listen to my CDs however I want". He's one of these "Give the bad guy a 27th, 28th, and 29th chance, but don't give a law abiding citizen a first chance" kind of guys. Former defense attorney, what else can I say. Give me a non-lawyer or a prosecuting attorney any day for a politician, but this idiot has charm, charisma, and not a fucking clue.

Gubner Doyle, yeah, I know I have a file, try _thinking_ for once instead of basing your policy on how the polls tell you people want you to _feel_.

Re:What a bunch of fucking idiots. (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030855)

You thundering moron. Wisconsin is run by the democrats, the idiot governor here doesn't trust good people to be honest and instead caves to criminals and the RIAA.

Parent is quite correct. Between McCallum and Doyle, Wisconsin has been going down the shitter in a hurry. Wisconsin needs Tommy Thompson back, a much loved governor who continually managed to keep the state running smoothly and properously. There is little doubt in my mind (and the minds of most Wisconsinites, I would imagine) that had he stayed on as governor, he would have dealt with the deficit with no trouble at all.

Oh, and he happens to be a Republican. Which is kind of amusing considering how Wisconsin always votes Democrat. But Wisconsinites liked Thompson, so he stayed in office until he took up the HHS position with Bush. He ran the state (and ran it well!) for nearly 15 years.

Re:What a bunch of fucking idiots. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030781)

Put down your crack pipe and your beer bong and pay attention. It isn't just Republicans. It is the entire political class. Follow the money and you will see that it ends up on both sides of the aisle. And so does the origination and support of MAFIAA protective legislation.

Re:What a bunch of fucking idiots. (1)

Dragonslicer (991472) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030905)

Leave it to Republican run hellholes to think up this kind of crap
I'm a registered Democrat, and even I know that stupid laws are a completely non-partisan issue.

Gah! (1)

Travelsonic (870859) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030409)

This is really stupid.... fuck them. people will ignore this before you know it - wait, better make that "People are already ignoring this" then. ^_^

hmph... hello FTC? (5, Insightful)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030411)

The article says "The Federal Trade Commission has scrutinized the music industry for putting unfair pressures on retailers who sell used CDs"... This seems to me to be similar unfair pressure, but this time it's coming from state governments. Is this sort of law even enforceable?

Re:hmph... hello FTC? (2, Insightful)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030523)

Well, given the scope to which "Interstate Commerce" has been expanded, to include even transactions or activities which occur solely within the bounds of one state, you'd think that maybe the FTC could step in and stop this.

(Not that I'm saying that the expansion of Interstate Commerce is a good thing, but if they can stop Californians from getting marijuana despite state laws making it legal, you'd think they could enforce FTC restrictions over the will of a bunch of asshat legislators in Florida.)

This law would have mattered... (3, Insightful)

moosejaw99 (1052622) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030415)

in 1995 when I still bought CD's. Let me know when they do this to used MP3's.

Re:This law would have mattered... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030577)

I don't know where you get your MP3s, but all of the ones I download for free are brand new copies.

Florida + Utah? No surprise... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030427)

Why does it figure that one of the dumbest laws I've heard of in a long time would start there?

Florida, well... I don't even need to describe the dumb things that go on down there.

Utah? They're best known for things like the "Clean Port 80" act (all internet porn should go on one port!), crazy anti-tech laws, "Yarro's Law" apparently passed at SCO's behest, and SCO, where we have Brent Hatch behind some of the crazy laws, not to mention their senator Orin Hatch and his crazy ideas.

Now, there are lots of nice folks in both states, of course, but any state that allows SCO folk to help write laws, well, I have to think they're positively Utarded.

Just dump 'em on ebay (5, Insightful)

miskatonic alumnus (668722) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030437)

until the fascists outlaw that. I swear, I have long been a proponent of paying for my music. There are several out of print titles I've paid top dollar for on ebay and in the used section of the local record store. But if this shit becomes the norm, I'll start downloading everything for free, lawsuits be damned. Fuck these sons-of-bitches.

rubbish (5, Interesting)

wall0159 (881759) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030439)

"The legislation is supposed to stop the sale of counterfeit and/or stolen music CDs"

This is clearly irrelevant, since they should then apply this to the sale of _any_ second-hand goods - any of which _might_ be stolen or counterfeit.
Even if they did that, what is the point of "in-store credit"? Will they then stipulate that said credit can _only_ be used for the purchase of _new_ media, rather than other second-hand media?

Gosh, I'm glad I only live in a US colony (Australia) instead of mainland US! It seems the RIAA-pists won't be happy until there's an income tax component for "expected music/media consumption."

Re:rubbish (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030551)

hahahhah, a US colony, Hhahahahaha.......rotfl

Re:rubbish (4, Interesting)

nolife (233813) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030805)

I've had music CDs stolen in the past. It sucks. This was before CDRs were on the market and I don't believe a single insurance company covers recording media. I went to a local pawn shop to try to replace some of my stolen cds, One specific shop I frequent often did not place the cds in any specific order, basically, they threw them in a storage bin in any old order. One day, like 25 out of the 30 in this one specific bin contained almost my entire collection of cds I had taken from my car. I listen to a wide variety of music (death metal, classical, electronica etc) and a couple of the CDs were special order DDD discs from Telarc. Even a few of the covers that I was missing from the plastic cases were missing on these ones (a few more were missing then what I already had at home but not one "extra" cover was present. Coincidence? Who knows but I ended up buying quite a few of them back. I checked that same pawn shop often but my stolen car stereo never showed up there. I called the officer "working" on my case and he said unless there were identifying marks, there was nothing they could do.
I do not blame a lack of law or holding period for my cds being stolen or resold. It happens. This law does not directly help the people that have merchandise stolen, it MAY attempt to make it not worthwhile for someone to target CDs but I agree that the main goal seems to be to please the RIAA. Maybe not directly related to theft but people that copy and then sell the originals.

Garth Brooks won??? (4, Insightful)

Pharmboy (216950) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030441)

Garth Brooks was pushing royalties for used CD sales way back when I had a shop that sold used CDs. This is right before he quit doing shit, so I guess he was just wanting some extra royalties on his old stuff. I thought it was a money grab then, and it is now.

Since I have always only bought used CDs, I guess now I will need to start downloading and burning all my music instead. No way I'm paying $20 for 2 good songs, and I don't want an ipod.

Shameful Reporting (5, Funny)

hotsauce (514237) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030789)

Why does Slashdot only report only bad legislative news? Why don't they report all the good news? It's just like Iraq: the liberal media only focuses on the few (dozen) bombs that go off every day, while ignoring all the good news that is overflowing from there.

Why doesn't Slashdot report all the good news? Like the PATRIOT Act, and the USA Act (I am no lawyer so I haven't read them, but the names really tell me all I need to know). I am sick of people acting as if politicians don't always look after my best interests.

If you commies don't like our system, why don't you all go live in Afghanistan?!

Re:Garth Brooks won??? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030895)

No way I'm paying $20 for 2 good songs, and I don't want an ipod.

 
you know, you don't need an ipod to use itunes. or are you too fucking stupid to understand that concept?
 
shove your bullshit excuses up your fucking ass.

Pawn shops (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030443)

So, except for the only store credit part, they're making them follow the same laws that pawn shops must follow here in Colorado? That is, valid ID and fingerprints are required as well as a 30-day holding period for all items. Working in a pawn shop, I can point out that CDs, DVDs, and video games (VHS is dead) and other common but low-value items are rarely even investigated by the police. Proving the ownership of such a generic type of item is futile. Un-serialized items in general are, really. Despite the annoyance, I still fully support the restrictions pawn shops are given and we -- the honest brokers -- fully try to insure that stolen items are returned to their rightful owners or are at-least unsellable.

Hey I know how to fix it.... (1, Funny)

3seas (184403) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030461)

... just look for DRM.

Then it can't be bootleged..... right??

Buying Used records is STEALING (2, Insightful)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030465)

Do you realise that when you buy a second hand album that the music industry thinks you're stealing that music?

After all, you've acquired a copy of the songs, but the artist has recieved no compensation from you.

*sighs* These people just do not understnad some conecpts integral to society (reuse, second hand sales, etc).

Stealing? Maybe. But from whom? (4, Informative)

kingsindian1 (782066) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030589)

Courtney Love has a nice article [salon.com] on her take on piracy etc.
Her view on the issue is that the music industry is a huge, profiteering middleman and artists are swindled by them. She's of the opinion that for an artist, more exposure, however it comes, is a good thing and will lead to people buying more stuff.
The music industry is whining just because they're being cut out from a direct experience between an artist and the listener.

Re:Buying Used records is STEALING (5, Funny)

StudMuffin (167171) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030723)

I heard a rumor that there is actually a place where you can BORROW CD's without PAYING for them and it is usually supported by taxpayer dollars and local cities and states! I also hear that you can borrow 'books' and read them and return them without paying a single royalty to the author.

WHEN will the agencies crack down on this atrocity! //sigh//

Re:Buying Used records is STEALING (2)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030777)

Interestingly, it was a variant of this argument that finally broke down my resistance to downloaded music. I figured that the only reason to buy a CD rather than downloading it or getting a friend to burn a copy is to reward the artist, and give them the means to keep making music that I like. Then I thought, how is downloading the music different to just borrowing my friend's CD and listening to it a couple of times? In neither case does the artist receive any reward at the time, and in both cases I'm equally likely to buy the album if I like it.

Crazy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030469)

You Americans are crazy!

That so few people are commenting on this... (2, Interesting)

mbourgon (186257) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030473)

is telling. I think this affects me - while I don't often buy used CDs (sorry - my desires are too damn eclectic to be satisfied locally), I want the option. Does it affect others here, or are we all buying them off ebay, buying the tracks off iTunes, or simply downloading them?

Is this the RIAA trying to curb rights? Is this Garth's revenge? Or is it something less? And, anybody know where in Florida the police were investigating? Is there any way to have this looked at by the media? I think most people would care if the local news did a nice little piece about how their hard-earned tax dollars were being spent making sure Johnny couldn't buy a used CD, rather than #insert EVERYBODYPANIC.h

Ars, thanks for bringing this up.
(and hey, someone else comment - I can't believe that so few people care)

Re:That so few people are commenting on this... (1)

smegged (1067080) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030625)

The reason so few people are commenting on this is that I, like many others are in a complete state of disbelief and shock at the lunacy of such a suggestion. The fact that it is easier to buy a gun than a second hand CD is completely bewildering.

Hello? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030747)

Is there any way to have this looked at by the media?

Who do you think lobbies for these laws? Are the major labels somehow distinguished from the media? There is a reason copyright is among the most one-sided legislation in this nation.

Does it affect others here

I certainly don't buy music from the major labels. I'm not going to pay them to keep lobbying congress for draconian laws. I have considered buying used CDs but frankly the radio is more than enough for me.

Re:That so few people are commenting on this... (1)

massysett (910130) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030827)

All my major label stuff comes from lala.com. I get rid of junk I don't want and get new junk, and for cheap, cheap, cheap.

Other music occasionally comes from Magnatune.

Honestly though, these days more of my audio comes from public radio and podcasts rather than music.

CDs are more dangerous than GUNS??? (4, Insightful)

rackhamh (217889) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030483)

And yet you can still buy a firearm at a gun show in Florida with no background check, and police must destroy records on gun sales within 48 hours and are prohibited from maintaining gun sale records that could be used for gun tracing and criminal investigations [bradycampaign.org].

What THE HELL is wrong with this country???

Re:CDs are more dangerous than GUNS??? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030545)

If only there were some way to turn the RIAA and the MPAA against ... the NRA.

Guys, we have our game plan from here on out.

Re:CDs are more dangerous than GUNS??? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030583)

CDs and guns are such vastly different things that you're an idiot for even comparing the two. There's no point for me to explain why the laws are different for each.

Re:CDs are more dangerous than GUNS??? (2, Insightful)

SCPRedMage (838040) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030719)

Nice to know you don't see the point of mentioning that Florida has less restrictions on an item designed to injure, if not kill, than it does on second hand music.

Re:CDs are more dangerous than GUNS??? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030889)

CDs and guns are such vastly different things that you're an idiot for even comparing the two. There's no point for me to explain why the laws are different for each.

Tell me about it. When I realized that I needed to exact the ultimate retribution upon my professors and classmates, I put on a vest packed full of CDs and burst into their classrooms brandishing massive numbers of disks. They all just laughed at me. I ended up feeling even more humiliated than before my rampage.

Re:CDs are more dangerous than GUNS??? (1, Insightful)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030587)

Well, to be fair, linking to the Brady Campaign's website is about as balanced as linking to the RIAA's page on piracy.

Re:CDs are more dangerous than GUNS??? (4, Insightful)

rackhamh (217889) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030699)

Straw man -- the URL is completely irrelevant. Either the laws cited on that page are accurate, or they're not. I'm not quoting a position paper.

Re:CDs are more dangerous than GUNS??? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030795)

It's a genetic fallacy, not a straw man argument.

Re:CDs are more dangerous than GUNS??? (2, Funny)

wvmarle (1070040) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030601)

Yeah well, duh... which shop or gun manufacturer would like to be linked to a murder? I don't think any. After all guns don't kill people, people do, isn't it?

But second hand CD sales... which must be related to illegal copying... what is more noble now then helping to catch those horrible music pirates!

The above of course all ironic... this note is for humourless people.

Not more dangerous... (1)

hotsauce (514237) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030721)

...just more profitable. In case you failed to notice, it is now government's job to make sure corporations can make as much money as possible. Thanks for playing.

Re:CDs are more dangerous than GUNS??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030799)

I disagree with your conclusion. Clearly, even KNOWING about guns is dangerous!

Re:CDs are more dangerous than GUNS??? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030879)

What's wrong is that groups like Brady are perpetually distributing a variety of lies and half-truths to the public for their own political purposes. Can you purchase a firearm in a gun show without a background check? Yes, you can-but only from a private person. Any dealer still has to run a check. Those who have been to gun shows, and who are familiar with how criminals operate, will tell you that the majority are not going to be relying on gun shows for the weaponry.

As for the second part of that statement, it only shows how much misinformation Brady puts out, and how little understanding there is by most people on how traces are conducted. When a dealer sells a firearm, they are required by law to keep the 4473 form on file for as long as the business remains open. When/if the business shuts down, the 4473s are sent to the ATF. If a gun is recovered from a crime, the serial numbers get sent to the ATF, who then will go through the chain of possession to the last FFL who possessed it (the dealer). That dealer will then give them the 4473, which has contact information on the purchaser (which is verified at time of sale using state-issued current identification). At that point the buyer can be tracked down, and contated to find out the disposition of the firearm. Local police do not need to keep their own sale records because such a system is already in place, and doing its job quite well. Brady would like to have records of every time any firearm is touched by a human being, with DNA records attached, and under realtime surveillance. Or just a total ban.

Other posters are correct: turning to the Brady Campaign for information on firearms is a perfectly analagous to looking to the RIAA for info on piracy.

In other news... (2, Funny)

Zero_DgZ (1047348) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030499)

...Entire Florida population last seen flocking for Bittorrent, Limewire, and points north.

hmmm... (4, Funny)

Travelsonic (870859) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030505)

In Florida, stores have to hold on to CDs for 30 days before they can sell them ... the local record shop makes copies of all of your identifying information and even collects your fingerprints.

I though these were CDs, not guns!

Ugh.. (3, Interesting)

The Living Fractal (162153) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030507)

Quote from the attorney who was trying to fight the legislation, during the final court session he said, "That's the stupidest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." The courtroom fell silent, even the judge was speechless.

TLF

P.S. Yes it's overdone but... fuck, I have nothing else to say to this than Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

GooD! (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030527)

Punish those evil doers who dare excersize their right to sell property under the US consitution.

Next we can ban selling and buying used cars. The exercise costs the auto industry billions of un-verifible money from potential revenue every year. Poor starving automotive engineers and CEO's work very hard to design and build the latest cars that are copyrighted under US law thanks to selling used cars.

Infact just about everything is copyrighted so we should just ban the sale of anything used. Think about how many jobs we could create!

Remember when you buy a car you do not own it. You only own a copy of the car that is based in some secret location at the company's headquarters. Just read the EULA for MS Windows if you do not believe me when purchasing only copies of material and not the actual products.

A reminder (4, Insightful)

Philotic (957984) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030531)

"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it..."

Re:A reminder (2, Funny)

mnemotronic (586021) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030875)

Dude, I would, but they took away my gun, then they took away my vote. But they did give me this nice "re-elect Bush in 08" tee-shirt and suggest I wear it at least once a week.

Rip 'n Sell (3, Insightful)

samkass (174571) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030533)

I haven't actually put a commercial CD into a drive in a year or more, and all the ones I still own are long since ripped. I was thinking about selling all my CDs, but then my ripped copies would be illegal, and I'm one of those weirdoes who actually likes to pay fairly for what they have. So what do I do if I don't want the clutter? Throw them all into a landfill?

It seems like the days of the used CD store are almost gone anyway. Despite the DRM politics, it's awfully convenient to buy online. And with CDs so easy to rip and resell, used CD stores are little more than rent-to-steal shops these days.

Re:Rip 'n Sell (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030763)

Just out of interest have you ever actually know anyone to 'Rip n Sell'? Of all my friends I am just about the only one who buys used cds, and also the one with the least pirated music on my computer. I have never known anyone to buy a second hand cd just to rip it and then sell it on again. Anyone considering that can save alot of time and money just by downloading the tracks.

Does anyone know of someone who does buy, rip and sell on? I'd be interested to know.
This law is ridiculous, its that simple.

Ah wonderful (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030539)

Now this debate can happen all over again.

For the record, I was buying back CDs at a used record store in Washington State in the early nineties. We required photo ID. We wrote the information on your photo ID in a Big Scary Book. After we bought your CDs, we held on to them for 30 days. Then, after 30 days, we typically sold them. And it was no big deal. Didn't hurt business, didn't scare customers. Didn't have a damn thing to do with filesharing (I don't believe the original Napster existed yet). We caught a decent number of CD thieves by matching sales of odd CDs to lists of stolen CDs. It worked to everyone's benefit except maybe the thieves.

By the way, it's Really Freaking Obvious when someone's selling stolen goods. Seriously. We're checking the lists of stolen CDs before they even walk out the door. Thieves are idiots, and not subtle idiots either.

These laws are similar. They include a fingerprint provision presumably to combat fake ID's. I think that bit is unneccessary and odious (because, in my experience, we were able to catch all of our fake-ID-using thieves because they kept coming back). It requires a business permit. Sigh, whatever. It requires trading for store credit rather than cash. That's stupid--people selling their old CDs hardly ever want store credit, even if the value of that store credit is more than the cash. Reason? People sell their old CDs with "I'll finally dump these old CDs" on their mind. Buying new CDs is typically not what they want to do. We offered trade or cash to people, and most chose cash.

So it's basically a dumber version of a law that has existed for over a decade in my state. Big freakin' deal.

So two things are going on here: (3, Informative)

Glowing Fish (155236) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030593)

The stated issue behind the restrictions on reselling CDs seems to be that they are a likely good to be stolen and resold. I suppose that this does make sense, and that CDs should have the same restrictions put on them that any other good sold in a pawnshop should.

But there seems to be hints that this is just a way for the recording industry to stop the reselling of CDs.

But there would have to be a closer studying of the legislation and the people backing it to find out which one is the real reason this is being pushed.

On the face of it, though, I find it a little unlikely that this is an anti-theft measure. Especially the part about "only to be used for store credit". It seems unfair to target CDs like this, when there are plenty of other things: cars, guns, jewelry, musical instruments, home electronics, sporting equipment, that are also likely targets of theft (I would think all of those named would be better targets for theft than CDs), but (AFAIK), there isn't any specific laws that say you can't sell your skis or guitar for cash.

Yippie Yahoo Hooray! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030609)

Now I have even MORE excuses not to buy cds! The RIAA just keeps making new excuses for me to not give them money every day...

*AHEM*

Ummm...you know I really would, but they closed down all the used cd stores and I can't afford to pay the price of an album just to listen to one good song....

How does that sound?

Greenpeace (1)

ruiner13 (527499) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030631)

Just sick the tree huggers on them. All those CDs will just end up in landfille now, how wasteful! Perhaps we can get the greenies to help us this time...

Follow the money? (2, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030637)

Who sponsored the bills? Who were the biggest contributors? Is this a law enforcement driven thing or is "Big Media" attempting to stiffle the used media market to maximize their profits? What will this mean to Amazon.com?

Lets get some perspective (1)

rueger (210566) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030641)

Ok, so Florida is looney tunes. I'll grant you that. In most places though pawn shops, and a lot of general second hand stores, already require ID in order for you to sell them an item. That's hardly news. As for CDs, anyone who has run a college or community radio station will tell you that "missing" CDs are more than likely to show up at the local used record shop unless you've made a point of having a close relationship with them. CDs and DVDs are a favorite with petty thieves everywhere. Still, Florida is idiotic. Shame, since it looks so intelligent on CSI Miami...

Not Utah again?!?!?!?!??? (1)

ashmon (592459) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030659)

Holy crap! The rest of the country is going to think Utah's even more back-woods hick-yokel inbreds than we already. It's really not that bad here, but Jebus, please, can we get a freaking sane law passed in this state, PLEASE???

Re:Not Utah again?!?!?!?!??? (1)

miskatonic alumnus (668722) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030843)

Utah citizen: Look, what is it that you require of us?

Utah legislature: What we, uh, "re-quire" is that you get your god-damn asses up in them woods.

Ahh, compact discs... (-1, Troll)

cryocide (947909) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030661)

Ahh, compact discs... They're like tractor-feed paper in a paperless world!

I only buy them if I can get a whole album cheaper that way than a whole album (or partial selection thereof) by electronic means.

Who Cares (1, Insightful)

Steve-o-192.168 (1096403) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030675)

Just listen to local LIVE bands. If what's on the radio & CD's sucks, do something else entirely!
Do your own thing! THINK for yourself!

It's not your right to be entertained. If you don't enjoy something anymore, don't use or pay for it anymore! It doesn't give you a right to steal it!

What I'm hearing from a lot of losers that are in my generation:
"I cant live without being constantly entertained!! What will I do if I cant fill my Ipod and ears with music for infinity???"

Bunch of Ipod wearing, ADD havin', short attention spanned crybabies.

You don't have to be entertained constantly!!! Support your local artists directly!

Read a book! Write your congressman! Get involved in your local community!

Get to know your neighbors & find out who plays locally! Hanging out playing music is way more fun than buying music off ebay. Singing along with other people, in real life, gosh, what a concept.

Try to charge royalties on that one RIAA. Maybe you should patent standing around a burn-barrel singing.

- out

Steve

Time to relocate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030691)

You get what you deserve if you live in Utah and Florida.

How bout a compulsory license for playing a radio? (1)

grapeape (137008) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030709)

I propose a compulsory license be required to play music that can be heard by more than one person, no headphones...pay a fee, driving with the windows down...pay a fee, take your boom box to the beach...pay an even bigger fee.

Seriously though, those who really want to do something about it shouldnt care. I stopped buying and downloading commercial music years ago, I listen to talk radio when im in the car and the only cd's I have bought have been from local bands at their shows. It was hard at first but I dont miss it anymore. My wife is slowly weaning herself as well. It was funny last year when the Grammy's came on TV and I realized I had never heard of 3/4 of the people announced as "performing".

The faster that the music industry can manage to piss off the ignorant masses the better. I think this move is great, its one that will affect the netless and clueless. I can only hope it expands to more states.

I wonder if... (5, Interesting)

ushering05401 (1086795) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030743)

this move is in part related to drug use.

I worked in retail management with a focus on loss prevention. The connection between hard-core drug addicts and reselling stolen multimedia was insane.

90% of the chronic offenders we prosecuted cited drug money as their motivation and the resellers in New England, my market, were often little more than enablers. One employee of a major reseller in the area told me 'off the record' that a guy we had busted recently came in several times a day for several MONTHS with DVD box-sets still shrink wrapped and stickered from one of our stores. When I asked why they didn't call us he just shrugged.

These new regulations are short-sighted and egregious, but it is possible the RIAA is not solely to blame. The war on drugs is still going on and from what I saw, shoplifting multimedia is a habit of choice for drug offenders.

Some numbers:
It was not unusual to see multimedia loss numbers from a single location at my former company top $100k for a single year. New box set titles @ the time I was doing this resold between 40-60 cents on the dollar within the first two weeks of release. So a single box-store multimedia outlet could have been subsidizing local criminals with an average of +/- $50k/year.

I don't like the new laws, but the RIAA is most likely not solely to blame.

linux fags! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030751)

fuck you, you fucking dick smoking faggots. i hope you faggots all die of the aids.
 
aids is the answer to the faggot question.

Not our problem. (1)

Russ Nelson (33911) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030801)

That's so totally NOT our problem. Just don't buy CDs in those states. Make it the store's problem.

What the f*** are they thinking? (1)

DragonTHC (208439) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030809)

Welcome to FL, the land of crooks, thieves, corruption, scams, no child left behind, stolen elections, stupid politicians, and now criminal CD sales.

write your state congressmen and women. explain how stupid they are to do this sort of thing which is anti-consumer, anti-competitive, and anti-smart.

well fine then (4, Interesting)

blhack (921171) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030811)

If the record companies really want to play this game, then I say let them. If, when i purchase a cd or DVD, I am only actually buying a license to view/listen to the content contained on it, not the actual disk itself (the media companies could argue that the media is free, and that they are retaining ownership of it, you are buying a license), then so be it. However, now that I own the license to use this particular arrangement of 1s and 0s, it is my right as a licensee to obtain it in any form that i see fit. I can fire up my favorite NNTP reader and download it. I can keep a copy of it on my ipod, on my work computer, on my friends computer, on my mt-daap server, in my car etc. Also, if at any point i decide that i don't want it any more, i can return the leased media storage device to the copyright holder, and have my license to use it revoked. For a full refund that is. It will become part of the cost of their business to provide us with the CDs/DVDs/Blue Ray Disks/Tapes/Mp3s/whateverthehellthemarketdemands.

k?

And what about the CD show LOOPHOLE!?!?!?! (5, Funny)

mnemotronic (586021) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030823)

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, there is a loophole! Unfortunately, the law applies to retailers only! People can go to a CD swap meet or a flea-market and freely buy and sell CDs directly with other people; a process known as "person to person" in the parlance of the common folk; all (and I can't state this emphatically enough) without the benefit of oversight by the Recording and Music Industry, and the benevolent guidance of our friends therein! Intolerable! CD shows are wild-west open-air bizarres where rogue CD and DVD owners snicker at the laws and exchange used entertainment media as if they owned it! This outrageous behavior must be brought under control!

I did, ladies and gentlemen, mention the "person to person" aspect. May I remind my esteemed colleagues about the known threat to our families, our schools, our re-election financing, and our very way of life by the criminals, perverts, and terrorists that use these so-called "P2P" computer programs to exchange copyrighted material, 93% of which is pornography, over the computerized internet tube. Hooligans, drug-users one and all, and of the same ilk as these CD swappers!

I say it's high time we closed this loophole, and bring peace, justice, and accountability to these havens of immorality. The lash of reason must be brought to bear, and the firm hand of democracy must crush this evil trend before it destroys all that we have labored so hard to impose.

From the other side... (1)

nick_davison (217681) | more than 6 years ago | (#19030835)

Just about every student house on my street got broken in to while I was at university. The first thing that got taken, long before TVs and VCRs (this was ten years back) was CD collections.

For quick and easy theft, relatively little beats CDs. Just about any music store would take them and an average even as low as a buck a piece still made them almost as good as cash and something you could rely on finding at least a hundred bucks worth in most houses with a couple of students in them.

I'm guessing this has little to nothing to do with the RIAA (save maybe getting to twist someone else's knife) and everything to do with making theft a little more difficult.

Honestly, what really happens here? Your records get kept for a month. If it's not a theft, that's the end of it. Compared to how much it sucks losing a treasured music collection, I'd more than happily put up with that in exchange for it simply being a little harder for the bastards that break in. And that's before factoring in how many people really sell their expensive CDs for next to nothing vs. how many people get their collections ripped off.

RIAA has been trying to stop used CD sales (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030869)

They hate used CD sales. Years ago they were demanding a percentage of used CD sales, claiming it was their right to have money for used CD sales.

Now they finally found a way.

And by the way, they found a way to stop those pesky independent CD sales at the same time too, didn't they?

Books Next? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19030909)

This is ridiculous. I bet books will be next.

5-Year prison term for purchasing Harry Potter at a second hand book shop, anyone?
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