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Spy Chief Hints At Limits On Satellite Photos

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the don't-look-there dept.

Censorship 309

An anonymous reader writes "Vice Adm. Robert Murrett, director of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, says that the increasing availability of commercial satellite photos may require the government to restrict distribution. 'I could certainly foresee circumstances in which we would not want imagery to be openly disseminated of a sensitive site of any type, whether it is here or overseas,' he said. This would include imagery on Web sites such as Google Earth, because the companies that supply the photos get help from the NGIA with launches." I had never heard of this particular intelligence agency. During the early months of the invasion of Afghanistan they bought up all satellite imagery over that country, worldwide, in a tactic later dubbed "checkbook shutter control."

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I claim this first post for pi! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047143)

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NGA not NGIA (0, Offtopic)

DivineHawk (570091) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047165)

Kind of like calling the USA "USOA" or the FBI "FBOI".

Re:NGA not NGIA (1, Informative)

osu-neko (2604) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047189)

Actually not like that at all. But you are correct that it's officially the NGA, not NGIA.

Re:NGA not NGIA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047223)

Kind of like Central *Intelligence* Agency or CIA? ;)

Re:NGA not NGIA (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047369)

I think he actually means NIGA - the intelligence agency from the ghetto.

Restriction on restriction (5, Insightful)

denoir (960304) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047173)

They can try to restrict as much as they can, but the fact is that much of the satellite images used by for instance Google are from non-US commercial sources. The only thing they'll accomplish by a restriction is hurting US business. The images will still be available from European and Japanese satellites.

More realistic is that they have to learn to live with the fact that satellite images are available to the general public and adjust their strategy accordingly.

Re:Restriction on restriction (4, Interesting)

garcia (6573) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047281)

The only thing they'll accomplish by a restriction is hurting US business. The images will still be available from European and Japanese satellites.

Or US companies will just start doing more flyovers like they have been for Microsoft's Live Maps which offer views of locations from multiple locations (N, E, S, W). They are already trying to ban picture taking by civilians at various locations (what is this fucking North Korea?) and the flyovers will be next :(

Re:Restriction on restriction (4, Insightful)

networkBoy (774728) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047291)

They *bought* all the imagery.
You can restrict information in many ways you know.

Re:Restriction on restriction (2, Informative)

Ernesto Alvarez (750678) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047357)

More like they paid for the information not to be distributed.
The same information can be sold many times, it's not something that can be out of stock.
There is always the chance of someone having the information and not wanting an "exclusive deal" with the US intelligence community.

Re:Restriction on restriction (1)

networkBoy (774728) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047645)

"There is always the chance of someone having the information and not wanting an "exclusive deal" with the US intelligence community."
not likely.
Money talks.
"sure you can buy it, it costs $"
"mumble mumble no redistribution, mumble pay $$"
"well, normally I get $ from at least three companies, plus many 1/$ from smalltime users"
"mumble, family, mumble $$$$$$"
"deal!, you want the disks?"
"nah, we got better, mumble, destroy"

Re:Restriction on restriction (4, Funny)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047383)

...non-US commercial sources...

...images will still be available from European and Japanese satellites...
Either they are for US or against US.

...learn to live with the fact...
You must be new here. This regime does not "live with facts".

Re:Restriction on restriction (2, Insightful)

ScentCone (795499) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047387)

More realistic is that they have to learn to live with the fact that satellite images are available to the general public and adjust their strategy accordingly.

Um, it's not the NGA that would have to 'adjust their strategy.' It's the many facilities, run by everyone from the DoE to DoS to DoD to state and municipal entities, all of which would have to adapt to it.

Re:Restriction on restriction (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047825)

Don't forget CTU and "Division"!

Re:Restriction on restriction (4, Insightful)

demachina (71715) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047451)

Exactly. The U.S. bureaucracy in particular, and America in general has such a massive dose of arrogance they are under the delusion they can still dictate anything and everything to the whole planet.

90% of whats gone wrong in the last six years is almost entirely due to a acute arrogance mixed with bad case of ignorance on the part of the people in the Bush administration. That's a really dangerous cocktail.

Russia, China, the E.U., Japan and India all have respectable capabilities to build and launch satellites, and more are joining the club. When the Space Shuttle is scraped there is probably going to be a very long window in which Russia and China will be able to put men in to orbit and the U.S. wont. The U.S. tries to bottle up satellite imagery I'm sure Russia or China will fill the void just to poke a finger in the eye of the U.S.

To me this just sounds like another round of post 9/11 fear mongering.

The U.S. seriously needs to wake up to the fact that the biggest threat to its National security is its massive trade and budget deficits, broken education system, energy dependence on parts of the world it can no long control, and a plunging dollar because no one has confidence in the U.S. anymore.

If the U.S. were spending money on those issues instead of on an out of control defense industrial complex:

A. It would be a lot more prosperous and secure
B. The rest of the world would hate the U.S. a lot less and have fewer reasons to want to attack it

The best defense program the U.S. could invest in right now is a serious effort to improve car mileage ASAP and then to develop clean, renewable and affordable energy sources.

Re:Restriction on restriction (2, Insightful)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047575)

Totally agree.

The best defense would be getting rid of the elements
that are inside the US that are actively trying to
damage the US.

The current admin does everything, seriously, everything
wrong, which creates long term damage.

You can predict what their response will be to any
situation: whatever will create damage will be the choice.

The list is long. Katrina is a good example.

Re:Restriction on restriction (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047705)

I was about to say that you don't understand human motivations very well... but I really think you don't understand them at all.

Re:Restriction on restriction (1)

ishobo (160209) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048267)

That plunging dollar has been helping our economy, making our exports attractive to foreign markets. Coporations also use the weak dollar to their advatange when repatriating their profits.

Russia has been helping us with our space needs for awhile; they have a contract in place with NASA.

Re:Restriction on restriction (3, Insightful)

adarklite (1033564) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047907)

You can restrict a lot if you put your mind to it. The other countries will do as the US wishes because they don't want their sensitive military and intelligence data posted in a public forum as well. Quid pro quo. We don't want this information released to the general public and you don't want this information released.

Reasons (1)

mholt108 (229701) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048105)

the reason for this does not seem logical.. almost as if they would like to keep dark areas of the world .. so they can still have wars armies etc that most people are not aware of .. i cannot see the release of information leading to more conflict / suspicion / paranoia etc. but the restriction of these new sources of information would help perpetuate old prejudices and fear of others. how do i mistrust mistrusting Arabs / Chinese /Americans when i look into their lives and see that their struggles are the same as mine. so the restriction of information can only benefit those who thrive in the dark and who will loose power or income if we know what they are doing (if it is not legitimate) .. so more power to google earth i say.

panic? (2, Interesting)

blhack (921171) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047175)

While i understand the logic here to an extent, it is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. If somebody really needed ariel photos of a place for illicit purposes it would be MUCH easier for them to obtain them from a balloon, or even an airplane. Not to mention the fact that they would be much more up to date. Its not like google earth has chloe sitting there hacking into the secret reserved spy satelite and feeding a live stream to the turrists.

Re:panic? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047447)

While i understand the logic here to an extent, it is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. If somebody really needed ariel photos of a place for illicit purposes it would be MUCH easier for them to obtain them from a balloon, or even an airplane.

Have you ever tried this near military locations? And what kind of sentence did you get?

Re:panic? (1)

Grave (8234) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048231)

This has more to do with restricting access to imagery which might compromise potential or ongoing military action, I believe. To me, that makes complete sense - why allow your enemy to get a nice overhead view of your troop buildup if you don't have to?

Then again, I did not RTFA, so maybe I missed something.

May you know them better as... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047177)

I had never heard of this particular intelligence agency.
They used to be called Defense Mapping

on control of information... (3, Insightful)

User 956 (568564) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047179)

Vice Adm. Robert Murrett, director of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, says that the increasing availability of commercial satellite photos may require the government to restrict distribution.

Reminds me of the old saying, "Beware of he who would restrict you from information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."

Re:on control of information... (1)

Pantero Blanco (792776) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047313)

Reminds me of the old saying, "Beware of he who would restrict you from information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."

Isn't that from Alpha Centauri? 1998's not old, and I don't know of it from any other source.

Re:on control of information... (1)

Yartrebo (690383) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047853)

I just looked it up in the game, and it is indeed from the game. That line is quoted as being said by 'Pravin Lal,' while things the game quotes from outside sources are referred to as 'datalinks.'

Re:on control of information... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19048073)

1998's not old

Get back in your wheelchair you fossil! That's almost a whole friggin decade ago!

Re:on control of information... (2, Insightful)

cowwoc2001 (976892) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048195)

Give me a break.

You didn't have unlimited access to satelite photography in the past, how is restricting said information in any way going to make them the masters of you. Governments have had this information for years and citizens did not.

Censorship is also a loaded word here too. They are not censoring your freedom of speech nor anything which you have inherit rights to. You, as a human being, do not have an inherit right to any bit of information that might exist on the face of the earth and it is silly for people to claim that restriction of information of any kind is censorship. It simply is not.

Stop wasting your days away on conspiracy theories. They're dumb and counter-productive. I'm not saying governments are always right but people have been overreaching as of late, wanting everything - immediately - for free. I think this says more a reflection of the selfish behavior of our generation than anything about our governments.

The TERROR of AN ATHEIST WORLD! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047201)

Ever wonder what life would be like in a world where atheism was the dominant religion? Wonder no more! Thanks to newly discovered Prayer Technologies we can glimpse into what life would be like in a godless world.
Let's take a look:

ATHIEST KID: Mom, I'm going to go fuck a hooker.
ATHIEST MOM: Okay, son.
ATHIEST KID: Afterwards, I'm going to go smoke pot with my friends, since it's "not addictive."
ATHIEST MOM: Okay, come home soon!

The athiest kid leaves the room. The father comes home from work several minutes later.

ATHIEST MOM: Hi, honey! I'm pregnant again. I guess I'll just get another abortion, since "fetuses don't count as human life."
ATHIEST DAD: Okay, get as many abortions as you want!
ATHIEST MOM: Oh, and don't go in the bedroom.
ATHIEST MOM: There are two gay men fucking eachother in there.
ATHIEST DAD: Why are they here?
ATHIEST MOM: I wanted to watch them do it for awhile. They just aren't finished yet.
ATHIEST DAD: Okay, that's fine with me!

Suddenly, their neighbor runs into the house.

ATHIEST NEIGHBOR: Come quick, there's a Christian outside!
ATHIEST MOM: We'll be right there!

The athiest couple quickly put on a pair of black robes and hoods. They then exit the house, and run into the street, where a Christian is nailed to a large, wooden X. He is being burned alive. A crowd of athiests stand around him, all wearing black robes and hoods.

RANDOM ATHIEST: Damn you, Christian! We hate you! We claim to be tolerant of all religions. But we really hate your's! That's because we athiests are hypocritical like that! Die, Christian!


Scary, isn't it! Thank god we live in a christian nation, run by god-fearing republicans. Praise be to Jesus!

A Message from the Ministry of Truth (5, Insightful)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047203)

Ingorance is Strength

War is Peace

Freedom is Slavery

Winston Smith

Re:A Message from the Ministry of Truth (1, Troll)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047527)

Ingorance is Strength
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery

Winston Smith
I'm sorry, why is this funny? Sounds pretty inciteful (yah, I can spell) to me.

Re:A Message from the Ministry of Truth (2, Interesting)

Jarjarthejedi (996957) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047769)

Google it, it's a quote (mixed up but accurate nonetheless) from 1984 by George Orwell. I believe the GP is commenting on how this act is a very Orwellian move by the government, trying to restrict information. Personally I have to agree, most countries have spy satellites, at least ones that are considered powerful, and so really if the terrorist's have any links to any countries, no matter how obscure, this won't matter. This is really nothing more than a solution to a problem that doesn't exist...a solution which won't work...remind anyone of anything *cough cough* DRM *cough cough* copy protection *cough*

Re:A Message from the Ministry of Truth (4, Funny)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048087)

remind anyone of anything *cough cough* DRM *cough cough* copy protection *cough*

Do you need some Sucrets? Maybe you should have called-in sick to Slashdot today.

Re:A Message from the Ministry of Truth (0, Offtopic)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047775)

Sounds pretty inciteful (yah, I can spell) to me.

Yah? How about "Ja," "Yea," or "Yeah"? But Yah? Dictionary.com defines as "an exclamation of impatience or derision."

You americans are living in intelligence hell (3, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047209)

and service hell to boot.

nsa, fema, homeland security (what the fuck is that), cia, fbi, this new thing in the article now, count as much as you can im sure there are more.

i started to often think which rules your country - congress, senate and president, or these "service" organizations.

Re:You americans are living in intelligence hell (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047289)

hey, fuck you bitch. what country do you live in? i bet it is every bit as restrictive as the u.s. and probably worse. stfu

Re:You americans are living in intelligence hell (2, Insightful)

MeNeXT (200840) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047329)

Did he touch a nerve?

Re:You americans are living in intelligence hell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047339)

a nerve? More like more hate ramblings from another country.. like England maybe? where they have.. lip reading cameras... hah.

Re:You americans are living in intelligence hell (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047541)

Such a fucking loser. Get out. Look outside the US. You're living a fucking police state and you don't even know it.

Re:You americans are living in intelligence hell (0, Troll)

gsfprez (27403) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047413)

you can be jailed for going over the speeding limit by 20 mph, there are more cameras than people, its illegal to own GPS recievers that tell you where the speeding cameras are, new speeding cameras that identify individual cars and time you over long distances to see if you broke the average speeding limit, and now they're going to watch your every single move from the A4 and thru London, and send you a smegging bill.

I'd rather live in the US than in England.

Re:You americans are living in intelligence hell (3, Funny)

Anomolous Cowturd (190524) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048101)

You know you're headed for disaster when your only consolation is being better than the English.

Re:You americans are living in intelligence hell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047463)

These big $$$ people are bound to come to our countries and screw us up when they bring us their "civilization". It's not that the US is bad, it's simply that their laws are actually enforced, and they have too many rules and loopholes (and lawyers) that will eventually reach us all for the sake of keeping big business owners happy (hello, copyright inquisitors, welcome to my our beautiful land). Unless we (people in the US included) get complaining and not accepting it instead of flaming at each other for our stupid governments that bows down to big money so easily.

Re:You americans are living in intelligence hell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047501)

Not just that there's also the NRO, the INR, that DIA, the Department of the Treasury intelligence division, the NIC, the NCTC, the NSA, the Army Intelligence and Security Command, the Office of Naval Intelligence, the Naval Security Group Command, the Air Intelligence Agency, the Energy Department Office of Intelligence, the INL, the DS and the Information Security Oversight Office.

http://www.fas.org/irp/official.html [fas.org]

Re:You americans are living in intelligence hell (1, Interesting)

megamerican (1073936) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047623)

Your rant doesn't fit into the argument of this article in the slightest. If the NGA tries to restrict satellite imagery again like it did in Afghanistan it will effect everyone, not just Americans. There most likely won't even be a complete blackout in an area. They might restrict the most current photographs that would show American troops, but showing a picture taken in 2000 or another arbitrary date that doesn't show sensitive information wouldn't need to be blocked. It would be dumb to think that the NGA would publish photos of American troop movements or let others do so.

In this country we have a system of checks and balances, so no one of the three branches rule our country. Certainly none of these service organizations do either. Their budgets are way too small and most have direct congressional oversight. Our system is far from perfect, but it works well. This is not the place to bash America, or any other country.

Re:You americans are living in intelligence hell (4, Insightful)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048051)

homeland security (what the fuck is that)

Fatherland was taken.

Somewhat pointless, horse, barn, ... (4, Informative)

Tjp($)pjT (266360) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047211)

The European satellite imagery is also for sale and can be had in multi-spectral and .5 meter resolution. There are too many commercial satellite image providers and sources to make limiting access unrealistic. Governments can put up there own and collect the data, state sponsorered para-military can just use what their sponsor obtains and high altitude aerial photography can be purchased for almsot any local on an on-demand basis. The "bad guys" have this info easily no matter what is done, all they prevent is sending a picture of your house captured from above to your friends and family and such. All it takes is money to purchase the imagery and at better resolution than most free sources, as well as IR and various other wavelengths if desired. India and China launch satellites too and make satellites. With current known technology it would not be tough to collect the imagery and resell it just to tweak the NRO/NGIA noses.

Re:Somewhat pointless, horse, barn, ... (1)

chill (34294) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047649)

And .5 meter is the limit. His point is the NGA forked over over $1 Billion to help companies launch satellites that get better than .5 m resolution, and by law -- U.S. AND European, IIRC -- they are supposed to degrade the image to .5 m before selling it to non-approved clients.

They have $$, and money talks. So much so that during the beginning of the Afghan war, they simply BOUGHT UP EVERY SAT PHOTO AVAILABLE of the area for months.

Half-meter resolution is good. If you know what you're looking at, you can identify makes and models of vehicles. But they're probably talking about ~.1 meter resolution which is more like "Hey, look -- he dropped his wallet while exiting the factory red 2006 BMW Z4 with the black rag-top. Wow, get a load of the rack on that blond he is with!"

Considering Europe can't even get Galileo off the ground, they don't seem like likely candidates to rush into the skies with super-spy sats.

Coming soon to a country near you... (3, Interesting)

Kuroji (990107) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047213)

I'm sure that Congress will pass a bill restricting the distribution of satellite imagery attached to something else that must pass in the near future. Something innocuous and large like a budget or telecom related bill.

On the plus side, the images that are already out there are staying out there, so some things like Google Earth are just going to become outdated, but they've already been doing this in some other circumstances - ever try to look at any of the buildings in DC for instance?

Will the images out there stay out there? (1)

Anonymous McCartneyf (1037584) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047301)

We are talking about a government that has removed things like nuclear-plant schematics from libraries. There are many plans and censuses and charts which were once freely available, but if you the average slashdotter want them now, then you'd better have made copies before now or know someone else who has.
It's easy to take down a website. I see fanfiction websites (think "derivative works") disappear all the time. The government can't keep satellites from other nations from taking pictures at whatever resolution, but they could make Google take Google Earth down.

torn between privascy and rigth to know (5, Insightful)

uncreativ (793402) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047221)

I really don't like the government telling us what information we have the right to have. (sigh) guess we've gone too far down the rabbit hole on that one.

I also really don't like the idea of companies making imagery of my property available to whomever wants it. My business is my business and is not for sale. I guess preventing that from happening is futile as well.

Re:torn between privascy and rigth to know (2, Interesting)

Tuoqui (1091447) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047309)

You could always cover you property in a giant tarp. That way they cant see whats going on underneath it...

Ofcourse that only works if you have a relatively small property.

Re:torn between privascy and rigth to know (1)

Barny (103770) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047653)

Comes back to the use of personal anti-satalite weaponry, so long as its not ballistic or laser you should be fine.

If you are charged with destruction of national property you can ask them where it was clearly labled, and of course claim that you thought it was a meteorite and you were upholding your right to bear (admittedly a little overpowered) arms to defend your home, family and country.

Of course they would just throw you in jail with no charges and claim 6mths later that "army contractors have finnished testing of a new weapon", but there would be one less eye up there...

Censorship of satellite photos? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047235)

Enjoy [telespace.org] while [lbisat.com] you [spacetoday.org] can. [berkeley.edu]

Slashdot Strategy Sessions (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047269)

"we would not want imagery to be openly disseminated of a sensitive site of any type, whether it is here or overseas"
This guy has it all wrong - they should be opensourcing these images, not closing them off. Let the denizens of parents' basements across America search for signs of Osama. We could have slashdot strategy sessions:

slashdotter 1: 'We need to lure them with a weak force down the center, then surprise outflank them - it worked for the Carthaginians.

slashdotter 2: 'You asstard: the Carthaginians were destroyed - the Romans sowed their fucking fields with fucking salt. someone mod this dipshit down

slashdotter 3: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047305)

On 24 Apr 2007, The Black Monk wrote:

>Here are some of his words from his manifesto:
>http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/foreign/tobyharnden/ april07/nerdkiller.htm
>"Psy-Cho, as Lone Star Times calls him, rejected Christianity,
>condemned debauchery and wealth


Interesting juxtaposition of words. Cho "rejected Xianity", yet
he "condemned debauchery" and mammon-worship. In the sense that
most self-described "Christians" are wholesale hypocrites, then
Cho rejected them, not our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ. Or if
Cho did say he rejected Christianity, I haven't seen this video,
or read it in his manifesto. Perhaps someone knows where he said
"I reject Christianity". Are these Cho's word's, or the media's?

>and called himself "Ishmael" or
>"Ismail Ax". Scores of bloggers have speculated about a link to

Cho's aforementioned condemnation of debauchery, and mammon-
worship, and imputed rejection of westernized "Christianity",
rejection -- condemnation, such reveals Cho's projection of
his own feelings of not fitting into a hypocritical society
of "Christians" who worship mammon and promote all manner of
debauchery. Obviously, Cho himself felt--in some ways, was--
rejected and condemned by the aforesaid. Cho didn't fit in,
much as our Muslim brethren are having trouble "fitting in",
or our Mexican brethren are having trouble "fitting in" etc.
But all nations, all peoples are guilty of being xenophobic,
hypocritical, mammon-worshipping and into everything immoral;
if not one thing, then something else, sinners are *always*
into _something_ immoral, pornography, pharmaceuticals, etc.

Cho had attended America's hard-line Anti-Christian Atheistic
public schools from the time he arrived here at age 8, through
2003 when he graduated high school. Thus Cho was schizophrenic:
part-Atheist by training and indoctrination, part-Christian by
his immortal soul seeing the Light. We might loosely associate
the left-brain with the mundane (Atheist) training, "severity",
and right-brain with the more sublime awareness of heaven and
hell, ergo "wisdom". Whereby Cho's intense psychic affliction,
his karma, and karmic attraction by those to his upset sphere
of influence, could not be reconciled from within and so Cho
externalized it, and went bloody "postal" April 16, 2007 AD.

This next quote from Cho is likewise revealing:

>Cho rejected the reported strong Christian faith of his parents.
>"Jesus loves crucifying me," he said in a video clip. "You loved
>introducing cancer in my head and terrorising my heart, raping my soul
>all this time."

Jesus, love, take up your cross, me (Cho's mortal ego-self).
That's a very Christian thing to say, actually. Next, "You",
here meaning the mortal-world fallen in sin, "meet my new
friend cancer", mortality, dis-ease, which can manifest in
real disease (kudos Edgar Cayce). Cho was contemptuous of
his bad karma, and that of the world, seeing that we are
verily Lucifers all: each time our soul is kicked out of
heaven to mortally incarnate to this "struggling" earth
(cf. Adolf Hitler's Kampf--revealing his own afflictions).

Cho seems to blame Jesus Christ for Cho's own sinfulness.
you know, like "the devil made me do it". Indeed, by Cho
allowing his God-self (Devil of the major arcana, Aries)
to be controlled by his ego-self (devil-incarnate of the
minor arcana, literally the human ego of the human brain,
it can be rightly said that the devil did make Cho do it.
As the maxim goes, our ego makes an excellent servant but
a poor master. Cho lost control of his own ego, as we see.

Thus, the holier-than-thou hypocritical world loves mammon
and debauchery, exacerbating the unease, unsettling motion,
emotional distress, in Cho's mortal ego-self, "in my head".

Then "terrorizing my heart", which Cho clearly externalized,
culminating in the profuse VT massacre. Cho's "heart," heart
of passion, compassion, for mortal life on earth. The terror
being his Taurean affliction. The obvious association of the
term "terrorism" with the on-going war with the Mahumetanes
goes without saying. But terrorism is global, all vulnerable
men being terrorists, to varying degrees, in their own right:
survival of the fittest is part of our human-animal instinct.
Those who worship the animal man, the beast, lose control of
it, enslaving their souls to the image thereof. Cho did this,
just as all mortal sinners do this, each to their own degree.

The "axe" invokes the Scythe of time, Saturn, Kronos; e.g.,
"from heaven will come one grand King of terror", 'K'utting
off the head of the beast. Cho wanted the war to end in time.
Cf. battle axe, or an executioner's axe, edge of a guillotine,
or to quote the Authorised Version "every tree which bringeth
not forth good fruit is *hewn* down, and cast into the fire";
"Armageddon", rising and falling, our shame in death, and our
contempt in the second death--in the long count of experience.

Only the elect few are aware of this and remember some parts
of their past incarnations and corresponding physical births,
lives and deaths, and interim discarnations and corresponding
heavenly recoveries, superconscious heavenly lives, Limbo and
Purgatory, the nine circles of Heaven & Hell, and inevitable
second death, when soul is banished from heaven again, until
the grand cycle of the fallen man is complete before 2331 AD.

* Gk ekkopto

Next, the word "rape", in context, is most conspicuous of all,
literally "raping my soul all this time". Any soul, any person,
who's ever actually been forcibly raped, they know exactly what
the word "rape" means! And for that matter, to be badly beaten,
kidnapped, incarcerated, tortured, murdered, (all of the above).

What was that film starring Anthony Hopkins and Cuba Gooding Jr.
(I googled it, 'Instinct', 1999): "What have I taken from you?"
Among the many illusions that the illusory suffer from, is the
illusion that they are somehow "better" than human beings from
other nations, of other races, creeds, cultures, etc. All men
are Created equal. Or, from another Anthony Hopkins film "what
one man can do, another man can do". The hypocrites who judge
Cho are as much judging them-selves, even society. America and
the empire shall be verily Judged...and mighty is His Judgment!

From the seat of his soul, Cho had felt violated the entire time
he was mortally-incarnate upon the earth. So karma's a bitch and
then you die(!) Cho failed to heed the sermons, precepts, of God.
Cho had long-since surrendered his own God-given sovereignty and
allowed his animal-self to become a pawn in a vastly bigger game.

So I say again, and this is just advice, do not judge Cho or any
other sinner too harshly, else, to quote M. Nostradamus (C10Q65):

                "O vaste Rome ta ruyne s'approche,
                  O vast Rome your ruin is approaching,

                  Non de tes murs, de ton sang & substance,
                  Not of your walls, of your blood & substance,

                  L'aspre par lettres fera si horrible coche,
                  The harsh by letters will make so horrible notch,

                  Fer pointu mis a tous iusques au manche.
                  Iron pointed put to all until the grip."

In Vigilance,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/ [2hot2cool.com]

iQA/AwUBRjFGgZljD7YrHM/nEQIOlQCeNwZ6JbzuFANo3it8M1 gujM3HbssAn0lR

NGA = NIMA (4, Informative)

Dolphinzilla (199489) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047353)

NGA (NGIA in the submission) the artist formerly known as NIMA - not a new organization just a different name...

For profit division (1)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047717)

Link [usgs.gov]

The Department of the Interior, U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), is the distributor of public sale National Imagery and Mapping Agency (NIMA) topographic maps, publications, and digital products.

Re:For profit division (1)

swilly (24960) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047847)

Better Link [nga.mil]

While you are there, check out their Kids Site [nga.mil] . I can't make up my mind if this is funny, sad, or both.

NIMA changed their name to NGA when they realized that all the cool agencies have a Three Letter Acronym (TLA). Without a TLA, they weren't being invited to the best parties, so they changed their name to National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency. Using the dash to make a TLA out of four words is a great conversation starter at these kinds of parties.

Re:For profit division (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19048107)

While you are there, check out their Kids Site. I can't make up my mind if this is funny, sad, or both.

WARNING: That link is not to be used while intoxicated. Trust me on this one.

Re:For profit division (1)

Gazzonyx (982402) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048431)

While you are there, check out their Kids Site. I can't make up my mind if this is funny, sad, or both.

WARNING: That link is not to be used while intoxicated. Trust me on this one.

My friend, I just visited and I assure you; I cannot handle this trip sober. On the bright side, you'll be able to forget it, whereas I must now live with it. There are just some things you can't unsee. I, most unfortunately, do believe that talking planets and satellites fall into this category. I think this confirms something or other than Hunter S. Thompson once said... I'm not sure what, but it has to !

Suspicious Cloud (1)

limegreenman (719290) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047365)

A certain agri-chemical plant, embroiled in a dioxin controversy, is conveniently obscured by cloud on google maps http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=new+plymou th,+new+zealand&ie=UTF8&z=18&ll=-39.062691,174.024 376&spn=0.002878,0.00559&t=k&om=1&iwloc=addr/ [google.com] . Surely a better solution?

Re:Suspicious Cloud (1)

ObjetDart (700355) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047513)

Hey, that looks exactly like a screenshot from Sim City when you've zoned too much industrial in one place. You should put in some more parks.

Re:Suspicious Cloud (2, Funny)

slayermet420 (1053520) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047577)

Ummmm, you said it's a "suspicious cloud" over a "chemical plant"? You ever stop to think that it could be "smoke"? That's what it looks like to me.

Re:Suspicious Cloud (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047725)

Looks like the edge of a cumulus cloud to me. Zoom out a little.

In Soviet Russia... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047421)

Maps are classified documents! ...oh wait...

Don't Look! Up in the Sky! It's a Bird! It's a ... (5, Insightful)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047443)

There are already plenty of public places in the USA with posted signs prohibiting video/photos.

These restrictions are clear violations of the Constitution, which creates no power for our government to prevent our recording public places. Not to mention absolutely unamerican in attitude.

There's so much accumulated destruction of America to fix now that it'll take generations to even catch up to where we could be, not to mention all the new problems accumulating while we're catching up. If we can even reverse momentum at all.

Re:Don't Look! Up in the Sky! It's a Bird! It's a (1)

gadzook33 (740455) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047791)

Right, but this is a totally unrealistic view of the world. If government buildings are public places, you should be able to photograph those to, right? You should be able to photograph the invasion plans for Normandy, right? I'm as afraid of the slippery slope of censorship as the next person but surely the answer (as usual) is actually somewhere in the middle.

Re:Don't Look! Up in the Sky! It's a Bird! It's a (2, Insightful)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048041)

Of course I should be able to photograph the public parts of those buildings, like the parts I can see from the street. Of course I should be able to photograph the Normandy invasion plans, now that the invasion is over a half-century old, and they're in a museum.

And of course the interiors of "public" buildings that are actually classified/restricted (including offices requiring appointments), and new plans still closed to public access, should not be photographed without proper authorization.

That's why we spend so much time and money building public buildings: they control access to their interiors.

This situation seems like a basic reality, while trying to stop photography of public exteriors is a basic fantasy. Part of the simcurity that pretends to protect us but keeps us scared into obedience by merely obscuring both how vulnerable and how safe we actually are.

Re:Don't Look! Up in the Sky! It's a Bird! It's a (1)

gadzook33 (740455) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048263)

Yeah, the outside of those building are sensitive (maybe not classified but that doesn't really matter). There's no difference between the security posture of a nuclear silo and war plans. They don't have those signs up because they're worried about you photographing the building, they have signs up because they're worried about you doing recon on the security detail. But then, that's sort of self-evident, isn't it?

Re:Don't Look! Up in the Sky! It's a Bird! It's a (2, Insightful)

njchick (611256) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048247)

The US Constitution doesn't preclude the states from regulating public places.

You Americans (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047511)

You're nothing but Chinese...with round eyes... blonde hair, and thick white beards. Your dick is hard, and your spine is limp as an overcooked noodle.

Its for our own good, folks. (1)

sizzzzlerz (714878) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047539)

It will keep up safe from them evil terra-ists should they decide to follow us home using Google Earth to find their way. Besides, knowledge is way over-rated anyway.

oh really... (4, Insightful)

toby (759) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047549)

During the early months of the invasion of Afghanistan they bought up all satellite imagery over that country, worldwide

Did they buy everything Russia has*? How? Is it really credible that Russia would enter into some kind of clandestine NDA over this material? And what would it mean if they did? We can assume that the US government has more money than $GOD to execute its evil. But what would be the motive here? To prevent before-and-after comparisons? Did they buy up all Iraq's too?

* - There must be a substantial archive of Afghan intelligence somewhere in Russia, as a legacy of the 9-year war. [wikipedia.org]

Re:oh really... (1)

jim_deane (63059) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047929)

If you're referring to nine year old intelligence images, you might as well give them maps of Kansas and label them "Afghanistan".

Nine year old data, unless it is part of a "then and now" data set or some specific study about historical trends, is useless.

Agency names (2, Informative)

Galen Wolffit (188146) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047567)

The National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency used to be the National Imagery and Mapping Agency (NIMA), but they changed their name sometime in 2003 or 2004. They wanted to play with the "big boy" intelligence agencies, all of whom had three letter acronyms, so they changed their name and added a hyphen - they're now known as NGA, not NGIA.

Other people have satellites (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047659)

The Russians are hungry for cash- why wouldn't they or the Chinese sell images that the US wanted hidden?

is that peter norton? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047663)

it just occurred to me that, for as long as i can remember, i have assumed that the slashdot censorship icon was peter norton--of norton utilities fame--with tape over his mouth.

now i'm not so sure.

Intelligence Agency? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047683)

If you click around the NGIA website long enough, you will wind up at an open Netscape LDAP server, where you may freely search the agency's employee LDAP tree. There are some visible admin links, but I didn't click any. Most of the information is mundane, but each search result included full name, employment status (contractor/fte), sex, and user ids. Hint: you get there through a link in a PDF available on the site. You might not find that information interesting, but others might (it is a government intelligence agency, after all).

I question the legitimacy of any intelligence agency this sloppy. I bet they have as much depth as the DHS.

Re:Intelligence Agency? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047959)

Look out, they'll be after you because you haxxored them! Obscurity is security, and you didn't respect their securitah!

Re:Intelligence Agency? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047967)

>I question the legitimacy of any intelligence agency this sloppy.

I hope slashdot will let me make an anon posting today.

I know quite a few of the people who work in that office, because they provide a great deal of Geospatial data to us research types, to the USEPA, to the USGS, to state agencies, etc.

The thing I wanted to point out is that many of them could, if they chose, greatly increase their salaries if they wanted to work in the EPA, USGS, or for a municipal survey organization. They choose to stay at the federal level either because it is a good way to start a career, or because it's important to remain there until retirement (there are vanishingly few employees in-between). It's a different kind of Dilbert Principle that's somewhat unique to government work.

"Launches"?? (1)

retrogameguy (1096733) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047737)

I guess they didn't read Slashdot a little while back on how Google Earth gets the images they use. Not all are from space - they also use planes, hot air balloons - really anything that can get high and have a camera attached.

What for? (5, Insightful)

snowwrestler (896305) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047845)

What is the strategic weakness exposed by satellite imagery, that is not exposed by the other myriad sources of information that are available? So you can see the top of the White House on Google Maps. So what, anyone can see it from the Washington Monument or the Hay Adams.

Important strategic installations are already satellite-proofed because of the Russians. The rest doesn't matter because there are so many other ways to find out the same information.

This is just like the time a National Geographic photographer was denied permission to photograph a bridge becuase of security concerns. He pointed out that if someone wants to know where the bridge is, they can read a map. If they want to see it they can drive over it as many time as they want. It didn't sway them and in fact he was told if he went up in the helicopter he would be shot down. Morons.

How to mirror google earth (1)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047889)

Is there a way to wget (or similar method) the entire contents of the google earth system to a local server(s) so as to have a local system that can't be taken down/controlled by information supressionists?
I'm no fan of google but a local, isolated copy of their google earth system could perhaps prove useful if for some reason it ever falls under some sort of restrictions or is even shut down..

I have no idea how much space the server would consume but I would guess it's a lot.
But hey, 500gb drives are regular $129 at newegg now. Building BIG data retention systems is easy and cheap now.

Re:How to mirror google earth (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19047961)

"Is there a way to wget (or similar method) the entire contents of the google earth system to a local server(s) so as to have a local system that can't be taken down/controlled by information supressionists?"

That's easy. Download USAPhotoMaps, the free...shareware program. All the map data gets downloaded to your local HD and is there for ever and ever.

Restricting information (0, Troll)

Brett Buck (811747) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047949)

What they are concerned about, of course, is not Google Maps and static data like that. They are very concerned about these foreign concerns sharing near-real-time tactical information, i.e. there's a brigade camped out at Lat xx, Long xx. and they have 4 tanks. This would permit active use in targeting and attack planning our troops.

          The US are perfectly justified in using any means possible to deny the enemy this information. Of course, our allies will refuse to supply it, if they do not they are not our allies but are aiding the enemy. If they can't talk them into not sharing it, they will try to buy it, but if they can't or the operators refuse, they are perfectly legitimate targets and can and should be taken out. And it's certainly feasible to do so.

        This isn't some sort of Goddamn game, we are talking about our troops lives here.


India is the only other country .. (2, Interesting)

viksit (604616) | more than 6 years ago | (#19047999)

..to offer that kind of imagery at the resolutions of 1m or less. There's no way people are going to sell their rights - especially if they're foreign governments.

ISRO (Indian Space Research Organization) is the world's third and only second non-US supplier of 1-m imageries and perhaps the most competitively priced; the data comes at a premium of nearly 40 per cent. Some data is internationally priced at $18-20 per picture of a sq km.

From http://www.india-defence.com/reports/3031 [india-defence.com]

Restrictions? Laughable.

How dare they.... (1)

hcmtnbiker (925661) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048007)

Whatever will I do without 10cm resolution aerial photos of nuclear power plants? Honestly, when the time comes up that i need that, that's when I'll bitch, not now.

Can you receive and decode this stuff yourself? (4, Interesting)

ikekrull (59661) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048059)

I know that weather satellites transmissions can be received and decoded using a PC easily enough - I wonder just how much more difficult it would be to decode signals from imaging satellites from your own dish?

I'm sure they use some type of encryption, but you know, thats not always (e.g. HD-DVD) the barrier it is supposed to be. Also, recent events such as the Tamil Tigers hijacking satellite bandwidth makes me wonder just what might be possible.

Anyone do any satellite hacking?

down with the man! (1)

saltmiser (946687) | more than 6 years ago | (#19048121)

More examples of the man trying to ruin perfectally good online data. If they fully had it their way, they'd probably fully dub out every government funded building...

It's not wrong. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19048187)

Not to them. It's not wrong. To them, it is exactly right, because it is exactly what they want.

Can't comprehend that behaviour? I urge you, and anyone else who is continually asking the question "why, why would they do that?" to research Ponerology, or failing that, Psychopathy. Our planet depends on it.
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