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162 comments

first smargle post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19078363)

So, you heard about the smargle . You've heard how the smargle is superior. But now you want to know, "how do I join the ranks of the smargle ?"

That's what this announcement is about.

If you wish to join the ranks of the smargle , you have to perform several tasks:

You must swear an oath to the smarglepriest in smargleland.

Then you have to fill out a bunch of smargleforms on smarglepaper.

If accepted, you will be notified. In such a case, you must see a smargledoctor, also in smargleland.

The smargledoctor will transform into the smargle of choice.

KNOWN TYPES OF SMARGLES:

The fish smarglegoblin. You can't transform into one of these yet, because no smargle has ever seen a fish. Only a fish smarglegoblin. And we don't know how to make you one. So there.

The blue smarglegoblin. You can't transform into one of these, either. These are specialties. And very strange. You can't be strange by choice. Only by birth. So there - again.

The fuzzy smarglegoblin. You can transform into one of these. Fuzzy smarglegoblins stay in either normal land or the city portion of smargleland. They are fuzzy. And good.

The scaled smargle or scaled smarglegoblin. If you choose to be a scaled smarglegoblin, you're just uglier than a smargle. And dumber. A lot dumber. They are scaled. And bad.

All non-blue smargles are orange. More smargles are discovered rather commonly, but rarely documented for non-smargles. Non-smargles don't deserve such information. They just deserve to know our superiority, how to become a smargle, and other announcements.

The smargle frep (myself) highly recommends that all new smargles become a fuzzy smarglegoblin. Fuzzy smarglegoblins are not uglier than fuzzy smargles, nor dumber, like scaled smargles are to scaled smarglegoblins. They're just cuter. That's how good works. They get good things if they have longer names. Understand? In any case, you should join the fuzzy smarglegoblins because they always win. Always.

That's about it. And remember - smargles are superior. Even scaled smargles.

You may now look to your right.

Continue.
- smargle frep

Re:first smargle post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19078381)

biggleslearnerjmurphy?

Enough Mac shit on the front page smashnuts (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19078371)

Isnt there some Linux distro update that yall could be posting about

dam yo

Re:Enough Mac shit on the front page smashnuts (1, Funny)

Miseph (979059) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079265)

Yeah, fo' rizzle, G.

It's all about the Linux up in my 'hood. Crackersville, New England, holla!

LOL (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19078379)

From TFA: "I wish it was just a matter of writing checks. If it was just a matter of spending money, Microsoft would deliver good products." Truer words have never been spoken. Also the oblig: In Soviet Russia, money spends Microsoft!

do something with the cash! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19078997)

Yeah, but Apple is sitting on a very large pile of cash, and they need to do something with it. Pay a dividend, set up an R&D program (I think they have a "secretive" business in Nevada named after an apple variety, which might be for this purpose), buy back shares, do something please! Any fool can put money in the bank. At least convert it to Euros or something, the dollar is getting weaker!

My opinion as an Apple shareholder (1000 shares).

Re:do something with the cash! (3, Insightful)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079463)

do something please! Any fool can put money in the bank. At least convert it to Euros or something, the dollar is getting weaker!

What do you think, that they just toss it into a checking account? When a company has "cash" that doesn't mean there are bags of money laying around. Of course it gets invested. And they make a lot of money doing so.

And your statement about "at least convert it to Euros" is naive. If you really think you can predict currency exchange rates, believe me, you'll be able to afford a lot more than 1,000 shares of AAPL. Currency trading is the biggest market in the world. If you can predict it well you'll have all the money you could ever spend.

Currency trading is the biggest market .... (1)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079809)

Only if you start out with all the money you could ever spend. Just joking.;)

Re:do something with the cash! (1)

yada21 (1042762) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081105)

At least convert it to Euros or something, the dollar is getting weaker!
Euroe's are just another denomination of dollars. When it comes down to the end of the day, all paper money is worthless as it has no intrinsic vaue. Much better to buy gold.

Re:do something with the cash! (2, Interesting)

MECC (8478) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081579)



Well, it has been going up lately, [lenntech.com] but MS stock outperformed [google.com] it (click the Max zoom in the upper right hand area of the graph). A much better investment might be copper. I read an article years ago by an economic geologist (haven't found a link to it though) in which it was stated that at current known copper reserves, there isn't enough copper to wire the third world to the same extent the industrialized nations are wired (power and communications). Wireless may change that, but the third world still wants electricity, and China is building 544 new coal power plants [bbc.co.uk] in the foreseeable future. That's a lot of copper, and without some kind of gigantic new source, that's likely to mean higher copper prices in the future.

I'd advise apple to invest in either copper of MS stock.

Re:do something with the cash! (3, Informative)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 7 years ago | (#19082319)

I take it that you didn't read Apple's Annual report 10-K statement back in December. On pg 60:

Research and Development (R&D)

Expenditures for R&D increased 33% or $177 million to $712 million in 2006 compared to $535 million in 2005. The increase was due primarily to an increase in R&D headcount in the current year to support expanded R&D activities, an increase of $46 million in stock-based compensation recognized as R&D expense resulting from the adoption of SFAS No. 123R, and higher overall expenses due to the 14th week added to the first fiscal quarter of 2006 to realign the Company's fiscal quarters with calendar quarters. In addition, during 2005, the Company capitalized approximately $29.7 million of costs associated with the development of Mac OS X Tiger. No software development costs were capitalized during 2006. Further information related to the Company's capitalization of software development costs may be found in Part II, Item 8 of this Form 10-K at Note 1 of Notes to Consolidated Financial Statements. Despite the increase in expenditures, R&D as a percentage of net sales remained relatively flat in 2006 as compared to 2005 due to the significant increase in revenue. The Company continues to believe that focused investments in R&D are critical to its future growth and competitive position in the marketplace and are directly related to timely development of new and enhanced products that are central to the Company's core business strategy. As such, the Company expects to make further investments in R&D to remain competitive.

On pg 68:

Capital Expenditures

The Company's total capital expenditures were $657 million during 2006, consisting of $200 million for retail store facilities and equipment related to the Company's Retail segment, $263 million for real estate acquisitions for the Company's second corporate campus and for a new data center, and $194 million for corporate infrastructure, including information systems enhancements. The Company currently anticipates it will utilize approximately $675 million for capital expenditures during 2007, including approximately $360 million for expansion of the Company's Retail segment, approximately $50 million for real estate acquisitions including the Company's second corporate campus and its new data center, and approximately $265 million to support normal replacement of existing capital assets and enhancements to general information technology infrastructure.

Stock Repurchase Plan

In July 1999, the Company's Board of Directors authorized a plan for the Company to repurchase up to $500 million of its common stock. This repurchase plan does not obligate the Company to acquire any specific number of shares or acquire shares over any specified period of time. The Company has repurchased a total of 13.1 million shares at a cost of $217 million under this plan and was authorized to repurchase up to an additional $283 million of its common stock as of September 30, 2006.

With that in mind, Apple spent $712 million last year in R&D and they increased spending from the previous year. Also they are using the cash apparently to expand the business by acquiring real estate for new stores while upgrading their infrastructure. And they are buying back stock.

Re:LOL (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080411)

I'll give you LOL:
http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/05/linux-indy-c ar-prototype.html [blogspot.com]
Fake Steve is one hoot of a blog.

Re:LOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19080595)

Fake Steve was worth reading a year ago. Now, meh, is so over.

'prompting Jobs to pull an iPhone out of his front (5, Insightful)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078399)

If he pulled it out of his front pocket (Jobs wears jeans), perhaps it's not prone to scratching or easily breakable. Maybe they learned something.

Re:'prompting Jobs to pull an iPhone out of his fr (1, Insightful)

Propagandhi (570791) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078515)

Or maybe he has a thrown of iPhones in his office, and doesn't care if he scratches one at a shareholders meeting...

Re:'prompting Jobs to pull an iPhone out of his fr (3, Funny)

Pandare (975485) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080151)

thrown of iPhones

Thrown of iPhones? I didn't know they let Ballmer into the Apple offices.

Re:'prompting Jobs to pull an iPhone out of his fr (1)

GundamFan (848341) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081339)

Well... they clearly don't let him in anymore. Would you if he threw you cell phone?

Re:'prompting Jobs to pull an iPhone out of his fr (1)

alisson (1040324) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078795)

That's what those little plastic dealies are for. Metal is malleable. If you scratch at it, it will leave a mark. It's not like it hurts the phone :)

Re:'prompting Jobs to pull an iPhone out of his fr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19080007)

Metal is malleable. If you scratch at it, it will leave a mark.
Except lots of metal consumer devices doesn't have this problem to the extent iPods do. My black metal mobile has gone through hell, but looks better after a year than my iPod did after a week. Quality of production and materials plays a huge part here.

Re:'prompting Jobs to pull an iPhone out of his fr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19078907)

Scratches?! These nerds are going to be rubbing the iPhone all over their oily faces and hands constantly! I hope it comes with a shammy.

Re:'prompting Jobs to pull an iPhone out of his fr (1, Funny)

rts008 (812749) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079139)

Oh, give us a break!

LOL!!

'Is that an iPhone in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?'

Re:'prompting Jobs to pull an iPhone out of his fr (1)

Cheapy (809643) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079369)

Or maybe he doesn't care since he probably has an unlimited stock of them.

Re:'prompting Jobs to pull an iPhone out of his fr (0)

conigs (866121) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081797)

I never quite understood the claim of the iPhone being easily scratchable. Yes the iPod's plastic screen scratches as does a Palm. Yet my Motorola SLVR sits in my pocket all the time and never scratches due to its glass screen. I'd venture to guess that the iPhone's screen will be made of glass as well to avoid scratches.

Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (5, Interesting)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078415)

Like he's a new man all of a sudden? I mean yeah he had that cancer scare a year or two back, but like his attitude has changed. Its like he's not the same Jobs who stormed off MSNBC or CNN, or the same Jobs that people stayed away from when getting into elevators, cause you didnt know if you would have a job coming out of it.

He's almost jovial all of a sudden. Its frightening.

Nice of him to finally clear the air on the stock scandal and get the whole facts out there. Knowing the whole story now it really does look like what analysts where saying, a whole lot of nothing. Why the feds think they need to go after Apple of all companies when there a MUCH bigger fish to fry (*cough* hello big oil shutting down refineries for maintenance right after coming off of maintenance cycles to decrease production) who knows.

Also nice of him to again point out how stupid Greenpeace is. I quite enjoyed the maybe you should hire a few engineers so you can understand what the hell your talking about remark.

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19078495)

Back in college when I was studying metallugical engineering, I tried to get involved with a couple of those organizations, not greenpeace specifically. But they were insane from the bottom up. I couldn't pass the idological litmus test, which pretty much involve calling day night. It a lot of ways they're the new religion.

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19078559)

Maybe this is just what he's like when no one's called one of his companies beleaguered in a while...

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (4, Insightful)

catdevnull (531283) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078599)

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (3, Insightful)

neoform (551705) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078915)

Erm.. he's been a billionaire for a long time.. do you really think another 600mil is gonna make him walk on sunshine?

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (4, Funny)

Korin43 (881732) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080089)

Who needs billions when you can have MILLIONS?

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (2, Informative)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081689)

Dude--he made $646.6 MILLION dollars last year

Technically he received $646.6 million in stock compensation which really is not the same thing. As stock, their value isn't realized until he cashes out which he has not done yet. If Apple stock splits and doubles in the next year (which it has done in the last 2 years), that stock will be worth $1.2 billion if he ever cashes out.

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (5, Interesting)

Nefarious Wheel (628136) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078773)

He's never come across as clueless or insensitive to me, just very very focused. I remember in the early days of Apple he walked in to the Bandley 2 computer room (open fishbowl, secured by people knowing not to bother the ops) wearing T-shirt, jeans & sandals and started playing with the switches on one of the front panels of "Junior", the 11/70 we used for development.

Tim Fischer, the op at the time, threw him out. "Do you know who I am?" he said -- Tim responded "I don't care if you're f***ing Steve Jobs, get out of my computer room". Steve left and I believe TIm got a pay rise out of it, although he was a bit shook when he told me.

RSTS-E/Basic Plus -- everything you needed but address space...

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19079311)

What did you guys use the 11/70 for?

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (2, Interesting)

that this is not und (1026860) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081047)

Back then 'PeeCees' weren't used to develop their own software. The software was always cross-compiled/assembled on bigger machines.

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079903)

started playing with the switches on one of the front panels of "Junior", the 11/70 we used for development.

Thats why you turn the key to lock, take it out and stick it in a vent slot for safe keeping.

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (2, Insightful)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079117)

Knowing the whole story now it really does look like
Uh, you've heard his side of the story. What other side have you heard, that you might reasonably claim to heard the whole thing?

It's not that I don't like Jobs and Apple; I'd love to get me some of that pearly fruit, if I had the money. It's just that I don't take what individual people say as the whole story.

Re:What other side...? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19079513)

Greenpeace's side. We heard from them first. They started this, remember? ("Apple are teh 5uxx0rz! Clean it up already!")

Then we heard a reply from Apple ("We were already doing that, like 12 years ago, so shaddup.").

Greenpeace got their response in ("See they changed their policy because of us! We r0x0rz!").

So we have now heard from both sides.
And Apple pwned Greenpeace. FTW.

Re:What other side...? (1)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079557)

Perhaps I didn't include enough context in my quote. The poster I replied to was talking about the stock scandal, not the Greenpeace issue.

Re:What other side...? (1)

Lars T. (470328) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081803)

Perhaps I didn't include enough context in my quote. The poster I replied to was talking about the stock scandal, not the Greenpeace issue.
So which other sides to you want to hear? The SEC [fortune.com] ?

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (2, Insightful)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081451)

Well up till now all we have heard is analysts, who have said everything from there was nothing wrong, to its a boodbath and Apple's going under.

Both the FTC and Apple have been quiet since they where told not to talk about it.

The fact that Jobs has finally said the nature of the stock options issue, that it dealt with the fact that Apple's stock has been going up and up and within the days time between being awarded and actually getting the stock, its price increased, leads you to believe thats it, they are talking about it now which makes it a non-issue.

Or maybe... (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080765)

The other option would be that Jobs never was the insane, mercurial Maniac some book authors made him out to be.

Re:Or maybe... (2, Informative)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081507)

No he was. I worked as a Apple Rep back in 00-02, and my boss used to tell me stories about him. People at Apple really WHERE scared of him when he came back as CEO (rather iCEO at the time) While Im sure he wanted that image to get people at Apple doing their best (since he is a well known perfectionist) you dont get that image by petting kitties and buying ice cream for little kids.

As it was not long after he told me some of the stories, he and 700 other people in the Education branch of Apple where fired for poor job performance and restructuring. While a number got their jobs back in other departments, he was one of the ones let go and not rehired.

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (0, Troll)

that this is not und (1026860) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081037)

I, too, find it amusing that the approach Steve Jobs takes to understanding something is to 'hire a few engineers.' Wouldn't expect him to know anything at all any other way. The guy is a user going back to the time when he used Woz.

Re:Anyone notice a change in Jobs? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19081157)

"Nice of him to finally clear the air on the stock scandal and get the whole facts out there."

???? It's one thing to be a fanboy, it's quite another to be naive.

George Bush said we needed to be in Iraq, and dismissed critics who say his policy is flawed. Do you feel he's cleared the air on Iraq and he's gotten the whole facts out there"?

You scare me.

Jobs on his salary: (4, Interesting)

earthbound kid (859282) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078479)

Can Apple to hire him for less than $7.50/hr? (2, Funny)

NotQuiteReal (608241) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078755)

I thought the CA minimum wage was $7.50 an hour.

Maybe Mr. Jobs only "works" 10 minutes a year or so...

Re:Can Apple to hire him for less than $7.50/hr? (5, Informative)

Billy the Impaler (886238) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078941)

I thought the CA minimum wage was $7.50 an hour.
The minimum wage applies to hourly workers. Salaried workers are free to negotiate any contract they wish so long as it plays by the other rules.

Re:Jobs on his salary: (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19080055)

'I make fifty cents just for showing up, and the other 50 cents is based on my performance.'
He's a marketing genius, no doubt about that. He is the highest paid executive in the US [computerworlduk.com] , and still manages to get focus on his 1$ salary PR stunt.

Re:Jobs on his salary: (3, Informative)

dr.badass (25287) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081609)

He is the highest paid executive in the US, and still manages to get focus on his 1$ salary PR stunt.

Highest paid in 2006. He doesn't have huge stock option grants vesting every year. From the Forbes profile you linked to is very telling:

Total Compensation (2006)
$646.60 mil

5-Year Compensation Total
$650.17 mil

In other words, over 99% of his compensation for the past five years came from last year alone. During that time AAPL went from about $12 to over $100.

Cryptic Jobs (4, Funny)

asifyoucare (302582) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078513)

What the hell did he mean by "Service Temporarily Unavailable", and what question was that in response to?

Re:Cryptic Jobs (3, Funny)

StreetStealth (980200) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078813)

I'm guessing it's something to do with Leopard.

Green Mfg (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19078695)

Jobs is insensitive to a high degree on this topic. The brand most known for design has done precious little to actually change the way things are made and reclaimed, except in a few instances. It makes more money to use the materials everyone else is using, and spend little on building a complete life cycle unless forced to do so by law.

My sources tell me that in contract mfg that the entire industry has *less* green mfg going on than seven years ago. There is an orgy at the Consumer Electronics Show every year, and no one is pulling the plug on it.

The effects of this aren't seen in adult humans, its frogs, and topsoil, pregnancies, cancers and hormonal effects, not to mention the amount of materials and energy and fresh water consumed. Grim but literally true. Jobs isnt on the same page here.

Re:Green Mfg (5, Insightful)

hardburn (141468) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078767)

Great idea. Hold up Dell and HP for what they plan to do, while villifying Apple for already doing those things years ago.

The environment is an incredibly important issue that doesn't deserve the nitwits at Greenpeace.

Re:Green Mfg (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080795)

But the nitwits at Greenpeace are probably better than nothing. They attacked Apple, and now we have a public statement from Jobs as to what Apple's plans are. That's more than we had before, and we probably wouldn't have gotten it were it not for Greenpeace.

It's of course easy to sit on your ass and comment on /. about how stupid Greenpeace is. It's much harder to go out there and do something.

I don't agree with a lot of what Greenpeace is doing. I think they have the right goals, but they often do stupid stuff. I do, however, respect them for doing something, which is much more than what I can say for myself. They are changing things for the better, and I'm glad they exist.

Re:Green Mfg (1)

stokessd (89903) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081057)

But the nitwits at Greenpeace are probably better than nothing.
No, they are worse than nothing. They look like insane ranters and turn ambivalent people away from doing things that are good for the environment. I strongly suspect that they have done more harm than good overall.

Sheldon

Re:Green Mfg (1)

bberens (965711) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081971)

That's what the art of negotiation is all about. Whatever we ask for we won't get. It'll be negotiated down to something in the middle. That's why Green Peace is important. They ask for more than they expect to get and then negotiate down.

Re:Green Mfg (2, Insightful)

hardburn (141468) | more than 7 years ago | (#19082637)

I agree with the other reply to this post--Greenpeace is worse than nothing. Their raving lunacy makes the oil industry look like the sensible ones. There are ways to promote environmental issues in a calm, reasonable manner, but this has been made nearly impossible, because you'll just get lumped in with Greenpeace.

As for "it's of course easy to sit on your ass and comment on /. about how stupid Greenpeace is", you don't know me or the projects I've researched and undertaken along these lines.

Re:Green Mfg (3, Insightful)

porcupine8 (816071) | more than 7 years ago | (#19082691)

I put Greenpeace in the same category as PeTA - pushing their respective movements backwards, because they make everyone think that anyone who cares about the environment (or animals) is as batshit insane as they are. Spending more money on publicity for their crackpot campaigns than on actually helping anyone. Preaching to their little mostly-teenaged choir, not noticing that the masses are backing away slowly, not only from them but from other legitimate groups that just happen to share a few surface features but actually do a lot of good.

"iPhone out in June" (2, Insightful)

vertigoCiel (1070374) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078797)

He says it'll be released on time, but he said the same thing about the Apple TV a few weeks before they announced it would be delayed.

Re:"iPhone out in June" (1)

neoform (551705) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078987)

The Apple TV box has nowhere near the same amount of demand as the iPhone or leopard, if he delayed both that would be very bad considering he moved devs from Leopard to the iPhone team..

Re:"iPhone out in June" (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081029)

I thought the iPhone was a America-only product? Why would that be as high up as Leopard?

Re:"iPhone out in June" (1)

neoform (551705) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081249)

Where'd you hear that? Canadians are getting it at the same time, and Europe soon after..

Re:"iPhone out in June" (1)

that this is not und (1026860) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081055)

To some people's thinking, you don't move ensigns off the bridge to help with the bilge pump unless there's good reason to need to do so.

/. has been (-1, Flamebait)

2Bits (167227) | more than 7 years ago | (#19078991)

... degenerated into a dedicated ad site for Apple, Google and the gang lately. I set my filters to filter out junk like these, but still can't avoid them. I guess the nature of what matters has changed.

Yeah, go ahead fanboys, mod me to hell.

You're right. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19079079)

Where are all the stories about Australia and Microsoft we used to get?

Re:/. has been (-1, Offtopic)

lightversusdark (922292) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079097)

Fair point, now get with the fscking program.
Stuff that matters == £$
Any stocks in your portfolio on track for a split?

Re:/. has been (3, Insightful)

ktappe (747125) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079101)

The reality is that Apple and Google are the companies making the innovative, neat new products these days that we're having fun playing with. You can either accept that and have fun with the rest of us or be grumpy and effectively yell "hey you kids, get out of my yard!" I feel sorry for you if you continue to choose the latter course of action.

Re:/. has been (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19079241)

Innovative? Uh, let's see -

iPOD - sort of innovative. Definitely not the first MP3 player though, and it came out, what, 6 years ago?

iTMS - also sort of innovative. Not the first site offering downloads, not even paid. More of a bizdev feat negotiation the distribution contracts

Macbook - hmm, a laptop with Intel processors. Innovative? Sorry, but not really.

Mac - desktop system with Intel processors. Innovative? Again, not really.

OS X - actually pretty innovative.

Apple TV - a device that can play back a digital content from another device that gets it from the internet. Innovative? Sorry, but not at all, especially not when compared to Xbox Live and TiVo.

iPhone - not really fair since it isn't out yet, but from what we've heard ... Edge, limited to 4 or 8 GB required storage, touch screen only, mediocre camera. Innovative - not at all (see HTC, Samsung, etc). Sort of another bizdev feat with Cingular, but not really sure how it play out in the end.

and no, Apple didn't invent ice cream, rollercoasters or the Boston Red Sox

Re:/. has been (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19079319)

no, Apple didn't invent ice cream, rollercoasters or the Boston Red Sox

No, but they did, after a fashion, come up with 132 flavors, build the Cyclone and are coaching the Yankees.

Innovation isn't quite the same thing as invention..

Missing the Innovation (4, Insightful)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080815)

Innovative? Uh, let's see - (...) iPhone - not really fair since it isn't out yet, but from what we've heard ... Edge, limited to 4 or 8 GB required storage, touch screen only, mediocre camera. Innovative - not at all (see HTC, Samsung, etc).

You're obviously utterly missing what's innovative about Apple's stuff. It's not that they have the latest and greatest tech (they often do, but it's not important). The innovative stuff is how they design the user interaction.

You can get pretty phones from LG. They do more and cost less than the iPhone. The problem is that the UI sucks.

Re:Missing the Innovation (1)

asilentthing (786630) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081897)

You're obviously utterly missing what's innovative about Apple's stuff. It's not that they have the latest and greatest tech
This is exactly right. Innovation is not the same as putting the latest/bestest hardware into your device. The usability, visual appeal, physical design... hell even the marketing is what makes Apple innovative. Not to mention comparing what the iPhone will be able to do with what current "smart phones" can.

Re:/. has been (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19079439)

Neither have done anything particularly innovative. Google has revolutionized the search engine. Thats it. Apple has popularized the MP3 player but hardly has innovated with it, or its computer products. Perhaps OS X gets a worthy mention, but again, thats something from ages ago.

Where is the stream of innovation? Its not there. All we are getting is hot air and fanboyism.

Innovation (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080829)

Either you were not around during Yahoo! and Altavista, or you, dunno... are insane? How is pagerank not innovative?

We Love You Steve! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19079007)

great - more reality distortion for the Jobs nuthuggers. I love all the positive spin folks are putting on his remarks.

"Apple is doing a LOT for the environment. Like what? Well ... uh ... Dell? They suck! HP? They aren't doing anything either! Greenpeace? They don't know what they're talking about!"

Great response - your critics don't know what they're talking about and everyone else isn't really doing anything. I wonder if Jobs realizes he's pretty much alone on his HP / Dell position (HP currently ranks No. 16 on the EPA's Fortune 500 list of Green Power Partners).

"Stock options backdating? Uh, yeah, the board agreed to give me a bunch of options during my compensation negotiation. I mean, I didn't want the pice to subsequently go up before they could get all the paperwork finalized and award me the options. What? Noooo - that was the board's decision to back-date them to the lowest price in the last 6 months. I didn't want that! Me? No way!!! Well, I guess it helped that the price was going up, but, I mean I didn't want that or the additional several million I made from it. I mean, I didn't do anything wrong. In fact, I didn't even know what was going on. Wait, where am I? Is this my kitchen? Who are all these people?"

Re:We Love You Steve! (-1, Troll)

likerice (1046554) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080515)

agreed.

moreover, in characteristic Jobs fashion, the man refuses to allow apple to be judged by established metrics or other evaluative conventions. bottom line: apple is an exception to ALL the rules.

of course, just look at its ads. or look at the way the company dismisses the substance of the issues raised:

on the environment - no need announce environmental goals as other computer manufacturers are doing because iJobs himself thinks that doing so accomplishes nothing.

on the backdating of options - no need to worry because (1) the reports are incomplete, and (2) it's all very complicated, anyway.

on R&D - no need to spend ANY more in order to develop new products because spending more does not guarantee the development of new projects [great logic btw].

on .mac - improvements are needed. improvements are coming. no need to explain the improvements because iJobs says improvements are coming.

on the offering of products to the developing world - ... ... ... [apparently iJobs hadn't thought of snarky dismissal for thought questions, though one may guess that he was thinking "3rd world? can they afford $500 iphones there?"]

Re:We Love You Steve! (3, Insightful)

gnasher719 (869701) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080741)

'' on the environment - no need announce environmental goals as other computer manufacturers are doing because iJobs himself thinks that doing so accomplishes nothing. ''

And that is so obviously correct, I don't know why you mention it at all.

Reducing waste helps. Announcing a goal to reduce waste doesn't help.

What is better in your opinion: Removing PVC from packaging (Apple twelve years ago) or announcing the goal to remove PVC from packaging in the next two years (HP) ? I know what's better in my opinion, and unfortunately we also know what is better according to Greenpeace.

roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (2, Insightful)

vic-traill (1038742) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079239)

I'm not an OS X guy, so I don't follow or know my Mac-related sites. Anyway I follow the link, and I'm reading along, and in the second Greenpeace-related paragraph I encounter:

encouraging user donations to Greenpeace to somehow solve that issue.

My BullshitDetectorReadingOpinion(submission) returns a mild buzz. Next line:

After attempting to take credit for Apple's announcements (referring to the G.P. rep)

sends me off on a bit of surfing of roughlydrafted.com, and googling of same said, which leads me to the conclusion that roughlydrafted.com is Daniel Eran's pulpit. Some of the 'articles' are fine and interesting, but that's not my point.

A few weeks back someone defined the difference between digg and /. as that the former is a blog aggregator+comments and the latter is a news aggregator+comments.This captures the difference for me, and makes me wonder about the submission a bit.

I suppose this is why we have arguments on /. as to whether bloggers are journalists http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/ 07/0428225 [slashdot.org] .

I do admit that Mr. Eran is pretty up-front with his bias, so you know where he stands while you're reading him.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (1)

sircastor (1051070) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079259)

He's absolutely Biased, he admits it too. I interviewed him for some schoolwork a bit back. He typically does make some good points though.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19079401)

RoughlyDrafted.com is pro-Apple. However, the lines that got your BS-detector buzzing are false positive. They are not BS. Google News around and you'll find out that Greenpeace indeed took credit for Apple's announcement. Not only did they take credit, they lied about what the credit was for. What Jobs said was Apple would change their policy regarding communicating their existing plans and achievements. Greenpeace pretended that Apple would change their plans to be greener and took credit for it. Greenpeace is a bunch of scums who capitalize on people's concern for the environment. Avoid Greenpeace, help other environmental groups.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (3, Insightful)

base2_celtic (56328) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079429)

Eran is in a tough position. He has a fervent dislike of biased journalism. He also has a known interest in (and love of) many Apple products. This makes it difficult for him to write on these topics, and still appear detatched.

He's passionate, certainly. Angry at some Microsoft shills? Obviously. Biased? No, I don't think so. The reason I think that way is because of the way he puts his influences and beliefs up front. He doesn't hide them. He doesn't pretend they exist. He references constantly, and provides reasoned arguments to back up any claims he makes.

He's not right all the time, but he's right a whole lot more (for my money) than almost any other person writing about Apple today. I trust what he has to say because of the way he says it, and the evidence he brings to bear. I also trust him because of his track record of making big predictions that get proved right.

Disclaimer: I use and prefer Mac OS X as an operating system, and write OS X games.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19079669)

Eran is a terrific fucking douche bag, and should he die before me, I will gladly urinate on his wife and grave.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079825)

Obviously. Biased? No, I don't think so. The reason I think that way is because of the way he puts his influences and beliefs up front.

Sorry? He's not biased because he admits to his bias upfront?

You're a moron.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (1)

ratsnapple tea (686697) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080641)

That's the point, you already know he's going to have a perspective, because he's a human being. So knowing where he's coming from helps you interpret what he's saying.

Are you really still stuck on the idea that there's such a thing out there as the objective truth? Bleh.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (1, Interesting)

that this is not und (1026860) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081085)

Are you really still stuck on the idea that there's such a thing out there as the objective truth? Bleh.

The alternative is beyond frightening. And it's scary that there are people like you out there in the world, purportedly thinking.

Or have IBT?

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081247)

That's the point, you already know he's going to have a perspective,

Yes. That's why I questioned the GP saying he was not biased.

Are you really still stuck on the idea that there's such a thing out there as the objective truth?

I still think you can strive for objectivity (whilst admitting to your biases). Roughly Drafted makes no such attempt.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (-1, Flamebait)

Stevecrox (962208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080141)

Hes a complete and utter Apple shill, previous roughlydrafted blogs have shown circular logic, chosen bad postulates, selective use of evidence, misleading use of evidence and a complete lack of touch with reality.If yo udisagree with me look at some of the previous comments on roughly drafter blogs.Why editors let this trash through is beyond me

If we were to believe him, Apple had already or are moments away from complete domination of the computer market and Apples proprietry hardware/software lockin's and increased price are good for us. Just because I say "I Love Microsoft" right now doesn't mean I'm not biased towards microsoft. Look up the meaning of the word.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (2, Informative)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080575)

I completely agree with your post apart from the sentence

Hes a complete and utter Apple shill,
I find it hard to believe that Apple would pay someone to write a blog as stupid & irritating as Roughly Drafted. Their money's better spent on more subtle shillery.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (1, Informative)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079815)

Daniel Eran was busted spamming digg [googlepages.com] and consquently banned.

Not only is that site biased, but it attempts to push its bias onto other sites. I think it's a real pity that Slashdot accepts submissions from there.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (1)

Lars T. (470328) | more than 7 years ago | (#19082587)

Not only is that site biased, but it attempts to push its bias onto other sites. I think it's a real pity that Slashdot accepts submissions from there.
Never have truer words about digg been said.

Campaigning has cleaned up Ikea too (2, Interesting)

Oldsmobile (930596) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080495)

Even though campaigning like this is often viewed as obnoxious and the author of the article sure seemed to think so, it's motivated several big companies to clean up their act.

Case in point, Ikea, which is nowadays greener and more ethical than any number of small furniture retailers, even the mom-and-pop operations that probably sell the worst kind of child labour produced rainforest wood furniture there is.

This due to being vocal about the problems by that company and now it turns out that if you want to be an ethical shopper you have to shop at Ikea.

Re:roughlydrafted.com article == blog entry? (1)

daviddennis (10926) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081179)

He did go to the Apple Shareholder meeting and report his views. He has a perfect right to do this. I have read many accounts of the meeting, and they all note that Jobs joked with the shareholders, to laughter and applause. The people who asked the probing questions were a tiny minority. On that basis, I believe his account to be accurate.

Eran's point, which I think is a valid one, is that Greenpeace wants to take credit for Apple's announcement, not Apple's actual attitude or accomplishments. Apple wrote a pretty impressive rebuttal which demonstrates they were taking many positive pro-environment steps while the competition was just putting up nice looking policy statements on their sites.

Concerning the options mess, I think more money is being spent trying to figure out what happened and trying to blame people than was actually lost by the company. Changing option dates is part of compensation and is legitimate as long as it was reported to shareholders. I don't think it should be counted as a serious problem unless the options had a significant impact on shareholders, which I do not believe they did. I think the total impact was $86m on a company making billions each year. This $86m was spread over a large number of employees. Considering Apple's performance I think they deserved the compensation and so I don't see any good reasons for the fuss.

I think that overall, Eran makes some interesting points and interesting research in his site and so it's well worth posting on Slashdot. Through the collaborative filtering of Slashdot comments, we get all sides soon enough.

D

Greenpeace (3, Insightful)

Grindalf (1089511) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079407)

I think Greenpeace's Science - particularly with respect to greenhouse effect solutions is muddled - like the scientists don't have steering control. It would be cool if some one who's a expert and who's used to dealing with politicians (i.e who posesses a stron persona) examined exactly where they are headed and corrected that for them as it destroys their cause.

Re:Greenpeace (2, Insightful)

aquila78 (851048) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080275)

I think there is a definite need for the Greenpeace campaign. I think what we really need to address the environmental issues concerning chemical waste and recycling policies, is informed choices. That means that the information comes from a trusted an unbiased source. Greenpeace undermines it position as such by running an uninformed campaign. That's sad, cause Greenpeace are one of the only entities which can pull a campaign with some impact of. I think greenpeace should take Job's advice: Hire experts and get the facts right. This way their campaign will have a lot more impact. Even though the Apple affair was a bit of a FUD-filled the need for the campaign is still there. They have got peoples attention, I hope they will use that attention constructively. Besides pressuring PC manufacturers I think that Greenpeace should push for legislation [slashdot.org] .

forget about being "slightly better" (4, Interesting)

nanosquid (1074949) | more than 7 years ago | (#19079743)

I don't know about Apple's overall corporate standing in terms of environment, and I don't think it matters that much. The fact is: computers are bad for the environment. The best thing you can do for the environment may be not to buy a new computer at all and keep using the old one. And the worst thing for the environment may ultimately be... the power hungry software upgrades that induce people to buy new hardware.

As for Apple, I wish they'd replace their styrofoam packaging with something recycled and biodegradable. Apple's packaging is like a throwback to the 70's.

Re:forget about being "slightly better" (4, Insightful)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080513)

As for Apple, I wish they'd replace their styrofoam packaging with something recycled and biodegradable. Apple's packaging is like a throwback to the 70's. Yes and no... I agree, I'd rather see recycled cardboard cartons, but what they use is certainly not a throwback to the 70s... The boxes are only just big enough to fit the item into, and the styrofoam they use usually has large holes cut in it to reduce consumption and weight. Bob

Re:forget about being "slightly better" (1)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080645)

Apple's packaging is like a throwback to the 70's.
Apple uses a lot less packaging for products today than they did in the 70s. So, your comments don't make a lot of sense.

Every time this guys talks to someone from Apple (2, Funny)

simong (32944) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080003)

They get their iPhone out

"Loooook... shiiinyyyy...." *waves in face*

A serious question for Mr. Jobs : (1)

zukinux (1094199) | more than 7 years ago | (#19080241)

Mr Jobs. You and Apple wants to get bigger, to address yourself to bigger audience, that's why were going to different areas such as mobile,or iPods. But why don't you make your changes global? We, in Israel, got a company named "Yeda" which is the importer of the Apple merchandise to Israel, and they support your products (or so they should be). Their support is lame, their prices are not even possible price so we will even think of getting a mac (mac's popularity in Israel got less then 0.1 %). And still, not because we don't want to buy (it's just 2 expensive via "Yeda" which takes your price in the U.S and double it / triple it), what would you buy 1000$ P.C or 1000$ Mac which will cost you 3000$? Also, their support is just bad, I don't know what they've offered you to import your products, but it's clear that they are doing much more damage than profit.

Think about it,
Improve the service in some countries (like Israel), and you'll get much more bigger audience.

Did he talk about... (3, Funny)

djones101 (1021277) | more than 7 years ago | (#19081025)

the iRack and the iRan?

Greenpeace is useless (1)

chord.wav (599850) | more than 7 years ago | (#19082409)

We have a word for people acting very much like Greenpeace in Argentina: Piqueteros [wikipedia.org]
While they arise some good valid points and concerns, they do not bring any solution to the table.
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