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A Side Effect of Testosterone Poisoning

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the go-ahead-and-get-mad dept.

It's funny.  Laugh. 273

obtuse writes "With a finding that may explain Internet trolls — or at least building contractors — U. of Michigan researchers have discovered that individuals with high levels of testosterone find an angry face rewarding. In their experiments, this was true even if the angry image was perceived subliminally so that the subjects didn't register it consciously."

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273 comments

Enough said... Steven Seagal (0)

brxndxn (461473) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141061)

You see this face?! This is a happy face!

You fucking assholes should die (4, Funny)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141303)

Why would it explain Internet trolls if you can't fucking see their faces? Idiots. I hope you all die in a fire. I'm off to lift weights while my wife cooks in the kitchen.

Re:You fucking assholes should die (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141955)

Because I'm feeling rewarded right now.

FUCK YOU (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141371)

yeah, fuck you

It explains criminals (1, Interesting)

statemachine (840641) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141071)

Especially the violent, bullying type.

Re:It explains criminals (2, Insightful)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141629)

I don't see anything wrong with taking enjoyment pissing other people off.

I think it's unfair to demand people to share your own personal biases and tastes.

you people are bigots and deserve all the beatings that you get!

Ron Paul and the Republican Debate (-1, Offtopic)

bit trollent (824666) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141077)

Ron Paul just kicked ass at the Republican debate on Fox news. Right now he has the most votes on a text message vote that Fox news is doing.

The top 3 are:
Paul 29%
Romney 27%
Giuliani 16%

During the debate Ron Paul and Rudy Giuliani had a confrontation about the causes of 9/11 and how we should interpret the attacks and behave. Giuliani actually asked Ron Paul to take some comments back about the causes of 9/11 and Ron Paul refused. Now, Ron Paul, who is considered a second tier candidate is actually leading the vote.

The guys on Fox News don't know what to make of it. He just had a confrontation with Sean Hannity and wiped the floor with him with facts and common sense. Seriously, tune in its hilarious. I'll try to post videos later.

Also, vote for Ron Paul by texting R7 to 36988.

Re:Ron Paul and the Republican Debate (0, Offtopic)

cyberkahn (398201) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141161)

Ron Paul is about as close to being a true Republican as you can get. I mean that in the true sense of the word Republican. [wikipedia.org] Ironically the modern day Republican Party is more like the Federalist Party [wikipedia.org] that the Democratic-Republican Party was formed to counter.

Re:Ron Paul and the Republican Debate (0, Offtopic)

lee1026 (876806) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141275)

Sounds fair, as the modern democratic party is the heir of the original Democratic-Republican party.

Re:Ron Paul and the Republican Debate (0, Offtopic)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141647)

I'd be a Republican if they were actually anything like the Republicans of old. What party can I associate myself with in these modern times? :( I blame the religious right for hijacking the grand old party for their own agenda. The politicalization of religion is as evil as Osama Bin Laden himself.

(democrats have roughly the same problem. the DNC pushes a socialists agenda, but your average card carrying democrat voter is nothing like a socialist)

Re:Ron Paul and the Republican Debate (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141741)

Why the fuck do you even need to be in a party? Is there some reason you can't evaluate each candidate and vote for the best one in each case regardless of party? Its the party system that responsible for some of the most boneheaded moves by our Congress, look the congressional voting record for the last 30+ years -- the majority of congress always votes along party lines. They vote what's good for their party not good for the country. This is so common that it is big news whenever there are "cross over" votes. It's such a pathetic state of affairs.

If you are serious about civil liberties (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141393)

Watch this [youtube.com].If you can't watch the whole thing fast forward to 5:47.

Trolls don't find "an angry face" rewarding... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141079)

...you stupid fucking cocksuckers!

Re:Trolls don't find "an angry face" rewarding... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141105)

>:(

I suppose I am giving this troll what they really subliminally want.

Re:Trolls don't find "an angry face" rewarding... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141205)

>:(


That's not an angry face; that's a sad punk.

Named extinction?

Please mod trolls funny/interesting/insightful (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141127)

In this thread only :)

STFU (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141193)

Fucking panzie.

Re:STFU (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141219)

>:(

There ya go!

Troll's Delight (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141257)

i said a >:( >:( the >:( the >:(
to the >:( >:( >:(, a you dont stop
the rock it to the >:( >:( >:( say up jumped the >:(
to the rhythm of the >:(, the >:(

now what you hear is not a >:(--i'm >:(in to the >:(
and me, the >:(, and my >:(s are gonna try to >:( your >:(
see i am >:( >:( >:( and i like to say >:(
to the >:(, to the >:), the >:|, and the >:/, the >:0 and >:p
but first i gotta >:( >:( the >:( to the >:(
say up jump the >:( to the >:( >:( >:(
let's >:(, you dont >:(
>:( the riddle that will make your body >:(
well so far you've heard my >:( but i brought two >:(s along
and next on the mic is my man >:(
come on, >:(, >:( that >:(

Re:Trolls don't find "an angry face" rewarding... (1, Funny)

eln (21727) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141307)

Christ, can't you fucking mods recognize humor when you see it? Mod parent funny you stupid assholes!

Explains a lot (2, Insightful)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141081)

In addition to trolls and building contractors, it can also explain certain managers, certain HR people, the jerk on the freeway...

The list goes on and on

Re:Explains a lot (3, Interesting)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141593)

It is all about control, excessive testosterone develops a greater need for control over your environment ie. you have a greater competitive attitude to all elements with in your environment, human and otherwise. Angry faces are there because you are creating them, forcing a change in the emotions of others around you and specifically forcing them to adopt negative unhealthy emotions and stealing away their ability to control their mental state ie. challenging them and winning.

Building sites and the industry as a whole is very competitive, very aggressive and quite physically confrontational, as a designer/estimator/contract administrator, it is quite a challenge to enforce your presence and control on the contractors, and ensure that project goals are met (good training for being an aggresive, proactive customer, you buy product, you don't get sold product).

Re:Explains a lot (1, Interesting)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141671)

I probably have greater than average testosterone if physical signs are any indication. I'll also admit that I used to be hot-headed and felt the need to be in control of everything as a young teenager.

Now I tend to be a lot more laid back and deal with things at the appropriate time. However, it has been learned by some people that it's more a case of an iron fist in a velvet glove if you decide to try and push me in directions that you shouldn't.

I can be downright intimidating (and for good reason) if I want/need to. Heck, I get told far too often that I look like a merc. However, anymore I prefer to be calm and relaxed, only letting the ugly side of myself out in a controlled manner when necessary.

A lot of the change probably has to do with life experience in my case. I've found that being in charge in a lot of the situations I've been thrust into is usually a job for a cool head rather than a hot temper.

Re:Explains a lot (1)

wish (60120) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141903)

Your testosterone levels have probably also declined from when you were a teenager.

Re:Explains a lot (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141843)

...it can also explain certain managers, certain HR people, the jerk on the freeway...

...and the one in the white house... and the war...Damn! It must be in the water.

Microsoft (5, Funny)

Xannon (1097947) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141137)

So that's why Gates keeps Balmer around?

Re:Microsoft - lol (0, Offtopic)

joemontoya (704695) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141189)

Haha! Mod parent funny.

Re:Microsoft - lol (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141273)

Why the hell do people post "mod parent blah blah blah" just GTFO if you have nothing to say

ewh, sorry. was just following the whole troll aspect of this thread. please dont GTFO on account of an anonymous coward.
dont guess I'm a vary good troll.

Re:Microsoft - lol (1)

neomunk (913773) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141379)

No, you're a good troll. *pets the troll*
Yeah...
No pouting... Want me to drag my sack across your face?

*feeds the troll*
Mod parent up!

biznaHt3h (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141167)

tto much for8ality

Rambo V: The Slashdot Troll (5, Informative)

BillGatesLoveChild (1046184) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141187)

Sly Stallone was caught recently in Sydney Airport importing (heh heh... drug smugglers smuggle, but Celebrities "import") quantities of Testosterone and Human Growth Hormone. Maybe Sly is updating his image for the YouTube generation. He wants to not only be a big troll, but a big scary troll too:

"I want... what they want... what those trolls. They just want to be heard. {grabs mike} Bill Gates, I'm comin' to get you!" (Whacks Steve Balmer with chair and dives out the window with DRM lawyers in pursui

Sly sad it was prescribed by his doctors for a "mystery medical ailment". No, seriously.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/stallone-sorry -for-illegal-hormones/2007/05/15/1178995115011.htm l [smh.com.au]
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/stallones-full -apology/2007/05/15/1178995136992.html [smh.com.au]

Don't panic, Rambolovers and Rockettes. Being a 51st State of America, Australia extends immunity to Hollywood Celebrities too. Sly will gush about he loves Australia and walk free. Just as well. Here's to Rambo IV, where he goes back and kicks the ass of the Tabliban guys he freed in III.

Re:Rambo V: The Slashdot Troll (2, Insightful)

joemontoya (704695) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141227)

Hey we extend immunity to Russel Crowe, he just has to pay a small fee to beat hotel workers about the head with a phone.

Re:Rambo V: The Slashdot Troll (1)

arivanov (12034) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141891)

He should have washed the floors like some other phone throwing celebrities did.

Re:Rambo V: The Slashdot Troll (2, Interesting)

Giometrix (932993) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141469)

"Sly sad it was prescribed by his doctors for a "mystery medical ailment"."

I guess having a 6 pack and 60 is just a side effect?

Re:Rambo V: The Slashdot Troll (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141611)

It was even funnier that he threw the drugs out his hotel window over a period of time while the raid was on and attracted a curious crowd. There's nothing like a few hundred witnesses to refute any claims that you never had the stuff.

in other news (2)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141225)

individuals with high levels of testosterone find an angry face rewarding. In their experiments, this was true even if the angry image was perceived subliminally so that the subjects didn't register it consciously."
some people induce that same response without the extra testosterone.

Re:in other news (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141507)

some people induce that same response without the extra testosterone.
Undoubtedly true, but those people have to get their reward through some other mechanism, otherwise they wouldn't engage in that kind of behavior. Elevated serotonin or dopamine levels anyone?

I am a general contractor (4, Interesting)

sponga (739683) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141255)

I have worked my way up from grunt work to foreman/supervisor; this line of work takes some words to get your ass moving and you haven't got time to be sitting around day dreaming.
Construction is a stressful business majority of the time and a lot of people have no idea what it is like to have an inspector that cost $300/hr to just sit around because your crew couldn't get everything cleaned up. So you raise your voice and the next time they know to pick up the pace to get the project completed.

Where did it say anything about building contractors and trolls in that article anyways.
I find my job very enjoying knowing that I usually can complete a several million dollar project in a week and get enjoyment at looking at a finished project. There are a lot of hot heads in all types of business it is just that when you work construction you usually have to raise your voice over all the other stuff going on and seem to express yourself more because it is a very busy environment with million dollar projects weekly that will fuck up your whole bidding schedule for other projects.

Now how a internet troll and a building contractor are comparable I have no fucking clue but the article described something completely different on people being teasers get enjoyment out of it and I usually don't tease my crew besides rolling up with a 24 pack in the back of my truck for them when they finish the days work.

Re:I am a general contractor (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141357)

Since you seem to be new to slashdot, I'll let you in on a secret... you know that one guy at your jobsite who always fucks things up? You know, the lazy ass who needs all day to pick his nose, and usually can't get it right on the first try? The guy you're going to let go tomorrow morning because he can't get his shit together?

Well, that guy is way too intelligent and motivated to be a slashdot editor.

Wear high heels == Get pregnant (3, Insightful)

Nymz (905908) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141375)

Now how a internet troll and a building contractor are comparable I have no fucking clue

I don't see the comic connection either. You shouldn't take it too seriously though, because while they may have found some correlation between testosterone, subliminal angry faces, and learning responses, they certainly haven't found a link.

Might as well say you have found a link between shopping for shoes, wearing high heals, and getting pregnant. A correlation is certainly there, but linking them together in the 1-2-3 cause & effect way is a mistaken assumption.

Re:I am a general contractor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141511)

Hey, brother I hear you. Makes YOU want to kick the crap out of them, doesn't it? They think that being a contractor just means that you ARE driving a big ol' suv with a trophy wife at your side, but what they don't realize is that you have to work your way up to it. THE road ain't easy. And then they try to blame TESTOSTERONE? What POSTER on what forum thought that one up? BOY, those dickheads should just stick to computers and the internet and stuff.

Re:I am a general contractor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141559)

"You are the testosterone poster boy"?

I mean, I noticed certain words were in all caps, and when I figured out that it likely held a secret message, I went back and read it... and suddenly was entirely let down.

Not really (2, Interesting)

Shadowlore (10860) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141277)

1) What's with the "poisoning"? There is no speak of poisoning of testosterone, merely people with "low" vs. "high".
2) Internet trolls by (current) definition do not see the faces so this doesn't apply.

Now building contractors however ....

Re:Not really (1)

InitHello (858127) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141403)

I would suppose that internet trolls, at least T. internetus aggravatus*, take pleasure in imagining the angry faces they probably cause with their dirty deeds (dirt cheap or otherwise) * Trollus internetus aggravatus, a subspecies of troll that typically posts inflammatory comments on message boards in order to spark a lengthy hostile discussion

One Man's Poison (0, Flamebait)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141289)

How about symptoms of estrogen poisoning, like not seeing the angry face is angry, even when it's shouting mere feet from the poison victim?

First time Anonymous Coward here (1)

Nymz (905908) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141495)

I have never posted Anonymous Coward before because I don't care for it. Oh, I wouldn't remove it, as it's a neccessary evil some times, but anyone looking at my history can see that I'm willing to stand up and take the heat for what I say.

With that said I'm posting anonymously here because even though I have no fear of FanBoys or Trollz, I do fear the knee jerk reaction of the brain dead that see any normal comment about women as threatening. They assume women are weak, pathetic creatures, that can't do anything for themselves, and must be saved by a male hero, which they see themselves in the staring role.

To whomever modded your comment Flamebait, they need to stop hiding and grow a pair.



Postscript: Bah! What the hell, I must love those angry faces. *unchecks Post Anoymously*

Re:First time Anonymous Coward here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141653)

Actually I thought his comment was meant to be humorous, and I took it as such.

You forget to check the Post Anonymously box btw, don't see why you'd want to use it though, your post is pretty mild.

Question. (1)

normuser (1079315) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141311)

individuals with high levels of testosterone find an angry face rewarding.

So would this ;-} be a troll to trolls?

More science fraud. (4, Insightful)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141449)

It seems that, at present, with the social breakdown happening in the United States, almost all science reporting contains some dishonesty.

The U.S. is the developed country in which women have the most disfunctional relationships with men. So reporting the story about testosterone as "testosterone poisoning" is a way to get attention. Lesbians, for example, like to use the phrase "testosterone poisoning" about men as a way of convincing women who have relationships with men to have sex with another woman.

In reality, angry people have high testosterone, whether they are men or women. The bodies of both men and women [jeanhailes.org.au] produce testosterone.

If you have observed how hostile women are in the U.S. toward men, I suggest you try visiting Brazil. Women in Brazil are certainly not perfect, and they are sexist, also. However, women in Brazil are, in general, far more confident of themselves, far happier, and far more creative and functional in their relationships with men than women in the United States.

Anyone wondering whether I am in a position to know about Brazilian women can reflect on the fact that I am posting this comment from Brazil. (São Paulo state)

The social breakdown in the U.S. is so advanced that often even men are hostile toward men.

Re:More science fraud. (2)

inviolet (797804) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141491)

In reality, angry people have high testosterone, whether they are men or women. The bodies of both men and women [jeanhailes.org.au] produce testosterone.

Men produce about ten times as much testosterone as women. It's ~500ng/ml in men versus ~50ng/ml in women, though levels vary widely (most notably with age). Testosterone deficiency in aging men is a widespread but lamentably misunderstood and denied problem.

Also, blacks have a lot more than other races, and Orientals much less... as is obviously apparent in their respective physiologies.

Re:More science fraud. (1)

cerberusss (660701) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141787)

Testosterone deficiency in aging men is a widespread but lamentably misunderstood and denied problem
I think it's not so much misunderstood/denied, but rather, that it's so hard to diagnose. Symptoms can be misunderstood for those general problems coming with age.

Re:More science fraud. (1)

evilsofa (947078) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141623)

"If you have observed how hostile women are in the U.S. toward men,"

Actually, no I haven't. What do you do to them?

"The social breakdown in the U.S. is so advanced that often even men are hostile toward men."

*blink* You say this like this happens in no other civilized place. Like, say, Rio?

Re:More science fraud. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141663)

The social breakdown in the U.S. is so advanced that often even men are hostile toward men."

*blink* You say this like this happens in no other civilized place. Like, say, Rio?
Lol. I've seen that guy post a few times before. He has a real bug up his ass about american women. I think one of these overly assertive women must have put the bug up there. Probably when he was trying to moon her, thinking it would get her into bed.


Guys like that are the ones who are always looking for mail-order brides from poverty stricken countries. Women who will be docile and obedient because they have no other economic options.

Re:More science fraud. (2, Interesting)

otomo_1001 (22925) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141679)

Actually this general trend has come up in my circle of friends. Yes most are IT geeks, but not all by a long shot. But the anecdotal evidence is this: In general women outside the US seem to have less of a desire for a power struggle to "one up" themselves above men. This seems to lead to having a more successful relationships since there is less competition to be the person in power.

Note I am not trying to say the guy should be the one in power in the relationship. Just that if both parties go in expecting equality instead of trying to gain the upper hand things turn out better.

I personally have had much more fulfilling relationships with women born outside of the US. The ones from within the US all tended to be far too materialistic and wanting to either change me personally or to want to dictate how the relationship progressed on their own.

Does anyone else see this happening? Or is this just a stupid midwestern thing? My east coast buddies say to just come to Miami and I will get married in a heartbeat. For my circle of friends the general consensus is that American women aren't worth pursuing. My oldest friend says it is because of the "trade up" culture we have here. Marry the best model guy you can at the time, wait and shop around for a better model and then trade in the current guy and move on.

I just find the phrase "testosterone poisoning" highly spurious at best. What is the amount, or can testosterone even poison us? I imagine it would take very high doses, but doubt our own bodies could produce such quantities.

ps: Glad I am learning some Portuguese based on your post. Of course I also found that French and German women don't seem to have the odd dating habits that Americans do. Mod me down, I have karma to burn. (Testosterone poisoning side effect #2? :D )

Re:More science fraud. (4, Insightful)

dbIII (701233) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141681)

It seems that, at present, with the social breakdown happening in the United States, almost all science reporting contains some dishonesty.

It's the Lysenkoism you get when you get anti-intellectuals in powerful positions in increasing numbers. This produces garbage in defence like MIT material scientists talking about bulletproof superhero costumes to get a grant when they know that some thickness is needed to absorb energy but the comics will be believed before they are. Another example is the creation debate coming up again - it's really about the anti-intellectuals challenging anyone with a half decent education and using the argument they are most comfortable with even though it is irrelevant - Mendel was actually a very pious monk so the religeon angle is just an excuse to pretend they know more.

"you're beautiful when you're angry" (2, Funny)

weighn (578357) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141485)

I tell my wife that all the time

Re:"you're beautiful when you're angry" (0, Redundant)

gkhan1 (886823) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141913)

I call BS. You're hanging around on slashdot, you can't possibly have convinced a woman to marry you!

Karma (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141539)

I forsee this thread turning into a karma black hole. *gets popcorn*

Damnit! (3, Funny)

DarkHelmet (120004) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141545)

The only reason I clicked on the link was to see if they actually had any pictures of angry people.

I wonder what that means about my demeanor...

Methodology (1)

gusmao (712388) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141581)

From TFA: "Participants then worked on a "learning task" in which one complex sequence of keypresses was followed by an angry face on the screen, another sequence was followed by a neutral face, and a third sequence was followed by no face"

So they had two neutral situations and an emotional one. I sure would pay more attention in a sequence with an angry face than a sequence with neutral faces. So maybe high-testosterone people are more sensible not to angry faces, but to emotional faces in general. I wonder what the results would have been if they had included faces expressing other kinds of emotions as well.

Re:Methodology (2, Insightful)

AJWM (19027) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141667)

So maybe high-testosterone people are more sensible not to angry faces, but to emotional faces in general.

Or as I pointed out in another post, maybe it means that high-testosterone people learn this kind of task faster. We already know that testosterone has an influence on early brain development.

Yeah, flawed methodology.

Going way out on a limb here (3, Interesting)

ScrappyLaptop (733753) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141589)

...but isn't this classic Alpha behavior? Do the psychologists even study chimps and gorillas any more? If your underling (or a potential threat to your rule) only briefly shows an anger face but not long enough to be perceived as a threat, that means you 'won' the confrontation and have established your superiority in the heirarchy.


Of course, with chimps it's actually the ones that stay on the fringes and avoid the Alpha (we'll call them Chimp Geeks) that have the most sex with the females, as the Alpha & underlings are too busy and stressed about staying on the top o' the heap...

The Actual Paper (2, Informative)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141601)

Here's the link to the actual paper:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~oschult/publication s/ws2007pb.pdf [umich.edu]

FYI their test group was 26 males and 24 females age 18~23
They did two studies, the first was not controlled for time of day, the 2nd was.

Re:The Actual Paper (1)

Torodung (31985) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141851)

Thanks so much. Yup. As I suspected, these jokers couldn't even be bothered to hook their subjects up to a pulseoximeter to see if there was any physical response that would increase aptitude.

What a waste of time. :^(

--
Toro

This is a worthless topic... (1)

MisterCookie (991581) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141605)

This is worthless, like all the other slashdot posts. Now someone put their faces on flickr so I can derive sexual pleasure from the contusions of anger.

Seriously flawed methodology. (5, Insightful)

AJWM (19027) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141615)

Obligatory jokes aside, the experimental methodology was borked.

Participants then worked on a "learning task" in which one complex sequence of keypresses was followed by an angry face on the screen, another sequence was followed by a neutral face, and a third sequence was followed by no face.

Note the face alternatives: angry, neutral, or none at all. No happy faces, puzzled faces, or any face showing any emotion other than anger. Most people -- testosterone or not -- prefer some kind of facial expression to a totally neutral one. (It indicates some recognition of their presence.)

Participants who were high in testosterone relative to other members of their sex learned the sequence that was followed by an emotional face better than the other sequences, while participants low in testosterone did not show this learning advantage for sequences that were reinforced by an emotional face.
[s/angry/emotional/ from the original]

That's all this experiment shows. Which probably really just means that high-testosterone folks learn this particular kind of task faster. Testosterone is known to have an effect on brain development, so it may just be that high-T levels are just an indicator for people whose brains are already geared to learning this kind of task faster.

Sheesh.

(Doesn't surprise me though. It's been my experience -- and I worked for several years at a university doing, among other things, statistics support for grad students and profs in the social sciences -- that psychologists tend not to be very good at experiment design. Maybe not enough testosterone ;-)

Re:Seriously flawed methodology. (1)

kendoran (1091611) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141743)

I'd +5 informative you if I had the mod points. The whole article+original experiment reads like a junk-study. The kind of study which people which people quote and reference to support their biased [in this case, a potentially anti-T] agenda.

Re:Seriously flawed methodology. (1)

xenocide2 (231786) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141799)

I was chatting with an local entomologist student and during the conversation it became clear that biology is sort of stuck -- it's perceived as a mathematically weak science, which in turn leads to weaker math skills among scientists, and as a result never push mathematical approaches within the science. It might be that biology simply isn't suitable for the formulaic approach that physics and chemistry seem to be, but a side effect is that their students are also really bad at statistics, which is still very useful when studying populations.

Study Not Complete (1)

n1ckdrake (783591) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141649)

From TFA "Participants then worked on a "learning task" in which one complex sequence of keypresses was followed by an angry face on the screen, another sequence was followed by a neutral face, and a third sequence was followed by no face." Why did the researchers not include a happy face as well. It would be interesting to know if a happy face could induce the same learning reinforcement in the high testosterone group vs the low testosterone group.

Right Analysis, wrong conclusion (3, Interesting)

MidnightBrewer (97195) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141715)

What I find amazing about such so-called scientific reports is that they often seem to be based on a conclusion in search of a hypothesis. So, people responded most strongly to an angry face vs. a neutral face or the absence of any face (duh on the last one.) Talk about skewed! What, no happy face? What if people had reacted more strongly to that? That would have upset the conclusion just a bit.

I think the best conclusion you can draw from this is that people respond to the stimulus of an angry face vs. a neutral one because it is in an animal's nature to avoid things that might hurt them. I would sooner respond to a rock thrown at me than one just sitting on the ground, too. That doesn't necessarily mean I seek to have rocks thrown at me, does it? It's a little something called a survival instinct. Sure, there are people who are just a little bit perverse and enjoy the adrenaline rush of somebody being angry at them, but I think bringing that into the article smacks of an author who either only poorly understands their subject, or is trying too hard to make it digestable for the average person.

The Opposite of Inbreeding (1)

Grindalf (1089511) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141719)

Albert Einstein was an alpha male - the fear of alphas that short circuits the mind and makes some people impute stupidity is called alpha male syndrome. High levels of testosterone and intelligence are NOT opposites but a sign that things are working well and normally go together in men that are less interbred. Try looking for a correspondence between INBREEDING (5th cousins etc.) and troll like behaviour.

Women (2, Interesting)

tsa (15680) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141745)

Do women with more than average testosterone levels also like angry faces?

What about estrogen poisoning? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19141747)

So the price of high testosterone is violence, and the price of high estrogen is (wait for it)

CANCER!!

Hah! Suck it, bitchez.

And when you're done with that, make me a sandwich and fetch me a beer.

Bad science, and misandrist to boot! (5, Interesting)

Torodung (31985) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141749)

I can think of another theory which would fit the results...

How about people who have higher testosterone levels get bigger (or quicker) *adrenal responses*? Did these scientists check any other hormone levels? Did they have subjects hooked up to a pulse/ox monitor? Did they check adrenal response, and/or other fight-or-flight factors, when they administered their test?

I have worked in a University psych department, and though it is not mentioned in the article, I doubt they had these subjects hooked up to so much as a *pulse/ox*. Most psychologists tend to divorce the brain from the body. It is foolish. The brain is just another organ, and we need to stop treating it like it is somehow mystically separate from the body. Especially scientists, who should be ashamed of themselves for doing so.

News flash: Your brain is hooked up to your cardiovascular system, and if that gets goosed, your brain, if it can stand the strain, is going to be more efficient.

I want to know what the subjects' heart rates were when they saw that angry face.

But rather than investigating the obvious suggestion of a physical response to negative stimulus, these dopes claim that such men ENJOY seeing an angry face instead? Malarkey. I doubt *any* subject would agree with the sentence: "I like angry faces."

I think the only goal of this study was to put down men, and how perverse we apparently are. These are politicians, not scientists, and when they collect data that may indicate that testosterone can confer limited advantage in crisis, they perversely claim that men *relish* anger, because no matter what data came back, that's what they've set out to "prove."

Of course, there is the ugly fact that MY explanation might have us reviewing the concept of female combat brigades again, and that is politically unacceptable to these "scientists."

"Guess What? Men _Are_ More Naturally Able When Confronting Hostility" (Can you imagine that headline?)

But honestly, we can give female soldiers shots of testosterone to improve their combat readiness if my theory is correct. What can we do when we draw the *wrong* conclusion: that men "enjoy" anger? Ban men? Didn't Maureen Dowd write a book about that?

God save us from politicians, and their damned lies, statistics, and correlative studies.

--
Toro

Next study, "high testosterone" males more likely to shoot off angry emails without thinking!

being male and the medical system (1)

wardk (3037) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141767)

maybe being male is actually a disease, like alcoholism.

wonder if it will be covered by insurance....

Side effect of "estrogen poisoning:" Breast cancer (1)

Torodung (31985) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141825)

Testosterone poisoning?

Here's some real poisoning. Estrogen has been correlated with increased risk of breast cancer in pre-menopausal and menopausal women, and can highly accelerate tumor's growth if it is present.

http://www.amazon.com/Estrogen-Breast-Cancer-Warni ng-Women/dp/089793198X [amazon.com]

There are those who say this isn't true,

http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/health/feeds/hsco ut/2006/04/11/hscout532075.html [forbes.com]

but a dear friend passed away from a massive tumor that developed in a mere 6 months while on estrogen therapy for menopause. She was clear of cancer earlier on, and six months later had a golf ball sized tumor that stunned her specialists. When she was put into chemotherapy, the doctor specifically put her on a drug that counters estrogen tumor enlargement, and the tumor responded dramatically to that "anti-estrogen," but the cancer had already reached her spinal fluid...

This is *real* poisoning. Be very cautious of any hormone treatment. Spread the word.

--
Toro

What's up with the "Python" foot? (1)

Torodung (31985) | more than 6 years ago | (#19141861)

This is not funny. Someone's taken this very seriously, and though YOU and I can see it's a joke, there are many people, many of them members of NOW, who will not get it.

This is about as funny to me as a "How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" joke is to them.

The punchline? "That's not funny."

--
Toro
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