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The Downide of Your ISP Turning to Gmail

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the Google-Apps-Partner-Edition dept.

Google 266

SlinkySausage writes "Google is offering ISPs the opportunity to turn over their entire email operation to Google, with all customer email hosted as Gmail accounts. This would allow Google to grow its user base rapidly (Google is a distant third with 51M users compared to Yahoo's 250M and Hotmail's 228M). There are some obvious benefits to end users — Google is offering ISPs mailboxes of up to 10GB per user. APCMag.com has posted an interesting piece looking at the dark side of Google's offer. Not least is in its reinforcing of the attachment people have to their ISP's email address, making it harder to change ISPs if a better deal comes along."

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What's a 'Downide'? (5, Funny)

neoform (551705) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204591)

Dont shash eeditors use Forefox? its gut a bilt in spellchcker..

Re:What's a 'Downide'? (5, Funny)

Joey Patterson (547891) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204645)

I have a spelling checker,
It came with my PC;
It plainly marks four my revue
Mistakes I cannot sea.
I've run this poem threw it,
I'm sure you're please too no,
It's letter perfect in it's weight,
My checker tolled me sew.

-Author Unknown-

Re:What's a 'Downide'? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19205303)

I hate cunts that use this... what you have is a spell checker not a fucken grammar checker!

All the words in the post above are spelt correctly.

Re:What's a 'Downide'? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19204717)

Editors?

Re:What's 'grow'? (2, Funny)

Harmonious Botch (921977) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204761)

They don't know what transitive/intrasitive verbs are either.

Re:What's 'grow'? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19204897)

That is probably a good thing. Besides, neither does your mom.

Re:What's a 'Downide'? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19204829)

This is Slashdot. A spell checker is redundant and not needed.

Re:What's a 'Downide'? (2, Funny)

dattaway (3088) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205105)

This is Slashdot. A spell checker is redundant and not needed.

me spelling checker works great need grandma chicken

Re:What's a 'Downide'? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19205025)

Why do you idiot fanboys feel the need to constantly point out Firefox features?

Opera has had a spell checker (via aspell) for as long as I can remember, but you never see Opera zealots running around like idiots crying "ZOMG!!1! If you had used Opera your spelling would be more gooder!1!"

At this point in time you can safely assume that if somebody on Slashdot isn't using Firefox, they're not going to. So shut the fuck up already.

Re:What's a 'Downide'? (1)

neerolyte (878983) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205139)

Learn to read he said "Don't" not "Why don't".

Until you learn to read kindly shut the fuck up. He was simply making a joke about the spelling, he used FireFox as an example... most people (that read slashdot) would know FireFox has a spell checker, I doubt as many know about Opera's spell checker (whether it was there first or not).

Re:What's a 'Downide'? (1)

neoform (551705) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205219)

Fanboy? Geez, get over yourself.

This is slashdot.. it's presumed that everyone here (especially the editors) use firefox or some other OS browser..

Re:What's a 'Downide'? (5, Funny)

sheriff_cahill (996608) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205147)

Why bother with spell checkers? They should just switch double the killer delete select all

Eh? (5, Insightful)

fabs64 (657132) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204593)

As opposed to it being so much easier to change your ISP email if it's hosted with your ISP?

That comment doesn't make any sense.

Just so you know, the latest versions of Firefox have spell-checking built in :-)

Re:Eh? (-1, Troll)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204707)

Yeah, another GREAT feature Firefox added was making it so it doesn't load URLs that you click on in the URL bar[1], so you have to hit enter or click the "go" button, and then made it so none of the help or FAQs or google hits shows you how to fix that. Oh well, at least this time it didn't delete my bookmarks.

[1]You know, the place where you type in URLs, and has a drop-down list of recently visited URLs ... don't play dumb with terminology.

Re:Eh? (1)

fabs64 (657132) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204741)

You're right, it is a great feature, I love being able to click on and then edit a previously visited URL without having to load a page I don't want.

If that's your only gripe..

Re:Eh? (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204787)

what version of firefox are you using? I'm using 2.0.0.3 and the clicking on the url in the autocomplete box loads the page.

Re:Eh? (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204839)

I'm using the same version, but, in all fairness, I didn't recompile six hours ago.

Btw, are we talking about the same thing? I'm referring the place where you type in URLs and the drop-down menu that comes from that place, populated by URLs you've typed in before.

Re:Eh? (1)

2short (466733) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204949)

Also using 2.0.0.3, and I am talking about the same thing, and it works fine.

Re:Eh? (2, Insightful)

Nefarious Wheel (628136) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204767)

Thing is, for commercial accounts Google lets you use your own domain name, e.g. Fred@FredEnterprises.com, not limited to Fred@FredEnterprises.gmail.com. That's got to be more of an attractor than keeping the domain name of an ISP you're familiar with.

Yes there's a strong reason to keep your old email account, but for a small business it would be far more compelling to have your own registered domain I would think. Of course you could talk another ISP into hosting your own choice of a registered MX / SOA, but Google makes this sooo easy for mom & pop...

Not a Google shill, not affiliated, no I haven't done it myself. The costs are way better than hosting it yourself. Figure 10-user company at $550/year perhaps? As opposed to the cost of a server, software licenses & sysadmin, etc. There's a point where it's no longer economical, but up to that point you're in good shape. Provided you can put up with Writely etc, of course, but for email I can't think of a compelling counter-argument.

Re:Eh? (4, Informative)

lilfields (961485) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205299)

Thing is, for commercial accounts Google lets you use your own domain name, e.g. Fred@FredEnterprises.com, not limited to Fred@FredEnterprises.gmail.com. That's got to be more of an attractor than keeping the domain name of an ISP you're familiar with.
You can do this with free accounts too, as I assume by commercial you mean Google Apps? Anyhow, even if you are talking about free accounts, free accounts are able to pull email from POP3 servers into the Gmail account and use the pulled address to reply...here is an example [alienwareniche.com] ; so really as long as you were able to keep the POP3, you could always keep your old account.

Disclosure: I run the site linked

Thin end of the wedge (1)

antic (29198) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204789)

And what happens when Google rolls out services competing directly with ISPs?

Re:Thin end of the wedge (5, Funny)

WannaBeGeekGirl (461758) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204811)

And what happens when Google rolls out services competing directly with ISPs?

recursion and lawyers?

two things that should not be in the same phrase...

Re:Thin end of the wedge (4, Funny)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204955)

recursion and lawyers?

two things that should not be in the same phrase...

That depends. Does the universe kill all the lawyer processes when it runs out of memory?

Re:Thin end of the wedge (5, Funny)

User 956 (568564) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205179)

That depends. Does the universe kill all the lawyer processes when it runs out of memory?

No, the lawyer processes just terminate automatically when the universe runs out of money.

Re:Thin end of the wedge (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204821)

Like what? What service can Google roll out to complete with your internet service provider? And I'm referring to paid services.

Re:Thin end of the wedge (2, Insightful)

Breakfast Pants (323698) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205079)

Free wifi for the entire city of San Francisco for one (doesn't meet your 'paid' requirement, but it does compete with ISPs, and you cannot deny that).

Re:Eh? (5, Insightful)

Lars512 (957723) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204823)

The "dark side" does seem to be not very well thought through. Basically, it argues that by giving them a much better email service (for webmail at least), customers might become more attached to their isp-specific email address. So it's actually arguing for worse ISP service, so that nobody will accept it and everyone will choose some more "liberating" mail provider. Give me a break. Better service is better service. It's your own problem if your ISP ties you in this way (they all do), and at least here there's the chance for an easy migration to a generic Gmail account if Google pursues this strategy. Customers didn't even have that chance before.

Re:Eh? (1)

lilo_booter (649045) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204885)

Agreed.

And having just woken up and not RTA, surely if it's hosted by google, then why would you lose it when you switch ISP?

Re:Eh? (1)

jlarocco (851450) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205091)

Because your email address is still going to be "whoever@isp.com", and it's still going to be controlled by the ISP. Except instead of the 25-50 MB of email most ISPs offer, you can have up to 10 gigs.

Re:Eh? (2, Interesting)

lilo_booter (649045) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205271)

Well, I have read the article now - it's a bit speculative ('google doesn't say if...'). Who's to say they won't allow you to keep the email address when you change ISP? Just 'downgrading' it to a regular gmail account (without all the isp specific branding) but with the same domain name? Even if they just allow you to migrate (notifying people in your address book automatically), that'd be a huge step up from your normal ISP lock in.

Re:Eh? (1)

catbutt (469582) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204993)

It's only a downside if compared to just using regular gmail (which by far is the easiest service to leave....you can use your own domain name your email address, they offer free forwarding, and they don't kill your account if you don't log in for 60 days or whatever it is the others do)

Re:Eh? (1)

catwh0re (540371) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205541)

I thought that too.. gmail lets you use it like a POP account, meaning it would at most emulate the exact same, not more, problems as any regular ISP email account.

Plus there is probably a chance that a portable email feature will turn up in the future, or at least some kind of linking to another gmail account.

Is it really distant 3rd? (4, Interesting)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204595)

I have multiple accounts on Yahoo I don't use anymore because Gmail is so much better, but which I keep around incase there are accounts I signed up for that I forgot to transfer over.

And how strong is Yahoo's protection against fake accounts these days?

Re:Is it really distant 3rd? (3, Interesting)

ZakuSage (874456) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204699)

Perhaps more importantly, how many of them are actual users? I get spam from "*@yahoo.com" emails on a daily basis.

Re:Is it really distant 3rd? (2, Informative)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204807)

spam generating zombie PCs generally falsify the From: header in outgoing mail, based on email addresses found on the victim's computer. The @yahoo.com email address would therefore indicate that yahoo mail is quite popular.

Re:Is it really distant 3rd? (1)

johnny cashed (590023) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204975)

What constitutes a fake account?

Mine has completely fake information about me, but I don't abuse the account (I'm not a spammer or use it for fraudulent purposes).

Re:Is it really distant 3rd? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19205117)

Yes, it is still a distant third. Plus, do you really think that nobody has multiple gmail accounts?

Re:Is it really distant 3rd? (1)

beyondkaoru (1008447) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205321)

i usually end up using yahoo or hotmail to make fake accounts for use over tor. you know, which i can then use to make fake accounts elsewhere.

Re:Is it really distant 3rd? (2, Informative)

watchingeyes (1097855) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205495)

Yes it is. Every traffic comparison (not account comparison) I've seen also points to Gmail being behind both Hotmail and Yahoo!

Re:Is it really distant 3rd? (1)

watchingeyes (1097855) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205521)

Oh, and since I forgot to put this in my last post, I have 4 Gmail accounts at the moment compared to 1 Hotmail Account and 0 Yahoo! Mail Accounts, so what exactly is your point? I know 5 other people off the top of my head that have 2 or more Gmail accounts as well.

It is just as easy to create multiple Gmail accounts as it is creating multiple Hotmail and Yahoo! accounts. In-fact, those 4 gmail accounts of mine don't include the numerous other ones I've created when I need a temporary e-mail account.

Downide (0, Redundant)

nermaljcat (895576) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204597)

hehehe you sed "Downide" :-)

... it was only a matter of time before someone else pointed it out.

What's the point? (2, Insightful)

rm999 (775449) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204603)

Why wouldn't the user just get a gmail account? Who needs the extra 8 gigs of space and the genericISP.com e-mail?

Re:What's the point? (2)

superphreak (785821) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204633)

Well, it seems "the user" isn't. If your ISP did, then an account would automatically be created when you signed up with your ISP, increasing Gmail's numbers, if not usage.

Re:What's the point? (2, Interesting)

WannaBeGeekGirl (461758) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204781)

Well, it seems "the user" isn't. If your ISP did, then an account would automatically be created when you signed up with your ISP, increasing Gmail's numbers, if not usage.
Well its not "the" point but here's a point: If Google does this and gobbles up a lot of the non-major ISP mail systems, at least they'll all be standard as far as the mail goes. That makes less headaches for all those completely computer illiterate people that just won't stop asking me for free tech support because I'm too nice to say no.

Re:What's the point? (1)

rm999 (775449) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205531)

And the ISP pays for it...

I don't understand the problem. (5, Insightful)

khasim (1285) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204617)

Not least is in its reinforcing of the attachment people have to their ISP's email address, making it harder to change ISPs if a better deal comes along.

And ... ?

I don't see what the difference would be. Whether your email is hosted by your ISP or by Google for your ISP. It's the same account name.

If anything was a problem it would be whether Google would "index" your email so it could target ads at you.

Re:I don't understand the problem. (1)

wfWebber (715881) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205149)

And then, the question would be, would I rather have some targeted text ads around my mail, or some flashy viagra-ringtone ads.

(Think about it, you know the answer to this one)

Re:I don't understand the problem. (1, Funny)

empaler (130732) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205339)

And then, the question would be, would I rather have some targeted text ads around my mail, or some flashy viagra-ringtone ads.
Actually... A flashy viagra-ringtone might be useful in the trains. Then, when someone decides to test EVERY FUCKING RINGTONE on their phone, I can just call myself from my other phone. I haven't seen any viagra-ads, but if it's flashy, I think it'll shut them up.

Blogspam (4, Funny)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204623)

C'mon, how is this "dark". Nothing in TFA justifies the submission or the connotations it appears to convey. "Google might charge for the service", but all they are saying is it will be "affordable" and ISPs can request more information. Holy shit, I can see the evil oozing out of that one.

"People will have to switch email addresses" Mother of god, someone stop this company. They will be the end of us all.

The obvious downside... (5, Insightful)

teh moges (875080) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204661)

The obvious downside is that Microsoft/MSN would lose customers... What, nobody noticed that the article is one ninemsn (Australia's MSN website)? This website has been known to have one-sided (Microsoft's side) stories and "news".

Re:The obvious downside... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19204989)

"The obvious downside is that Microsoft/MSN would lose customers... What, nobody noticed that the article is one ninemsn (Australia's MSN website)? This website has been known to have one-sided (Microsoft's side) stories and "news"."

people probably didn't notice it was ninemsn because it ISN'T a ninemsn article. It is an APC article, APC are anything but Microsoft friendly, they even regularly ship linux distros on there included DVD/CD they ship with the magazine.

Re:The obvious downside... (2, Informative)

teh moges (875080) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205067)

*checks link again*
Nope, APC article, NineMSN website. This also has nothing to do with linux. It's an MSN issue, not a Windows issue.

Re:The obvious downside... (1)

romland (192158) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204991)

Surely you mean that they're known to have one-eyed stories!

Err. *I* thought this was funny.

Downide (0, Redundant)

Icyfire0573 (719207) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204663)

COME ON! Even for people who normally let some "editing" go by uncommented upon. DOWNIDE? I had to read the topic 6 times before I knew that it was downside. (it is downside right?)

ADD? (-1, Redundant)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204689)

Apparently the guy who wrote the article had ADD or something.

So we start with the question: "Is there a dark side of your ISP switching to Google?"
And the problem is: "Your ISP mail locks you to your ISP"

So.. how is this problem related to Google at all? How were you less locked to your ISP when they used their own mail servers?

The mind baffles.

On the other hand, Gmail is free, people who have a clue wouldn't go for ISP mail if they can avoid the lock-in and go for a free gmail account.

Re:ADD? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19204953)

Apparently the guy who wrote the article had ADD or something.
there should be a way to mod people down for making stereotypical remarks.

assuming that someone who misspells or types too fast has ADD just contributes to the stigmas of mental health. stigmas lead to intolerance which leads to hate and gets people beat up and stuff ultimately. go read up on ADD/ADHD at ADDA [add.org] before you make assumptions.

i maybe be OT, but the OP is ignorant.

Re:ADD? (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205017)

assuming that someone who misspells or types too fast has ADD

My post had nothing to do with a spelling error or fast typing. Maybe you have ADD too?

Re:ADD? (1)

azenpunk (1080949) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205145)

stereo types do not cause intolerance, but taking them seriously does.

A Zonk (1)

MisterCookie (991581) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204753)

We got ourselves a Grade A Zonk here folks! Even though it wasn't posted by Zonk...

Wish (1)

slashthedot (991354) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204765)

...my ISP realized those long names interspersed with hyphens have made me not use any of the emails provided. In contrast I have a simple and easy to type address on the webmail accounts.

Your own domain (4, Interesting)

dj245 (732906) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204797)

I bought my own domain some time ago. Its a small price to pay for an email address that never changes and you can carry through physical and ISP moves. I haven't figured out what to do with the website (aside from important document backups which are not search engine indexed) but the email service has been great. I do use the catchall service to try to track which companies sell my email address. So far I haven't caught anybody doing anything sneaky, although Prosound Stage and Lighting refuses to take me off their list (don't buy anything from them, you'll never get off the list)

Re:Your own domain (1)

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204873)

I always wondered if the sites that resell their e-mail addresses were clever enough to filter out the ones with their name built into it?

Re:Your own domain (3, Interesting)

Wayne247 (183933) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204961)

Bingo. I do exactly that as well. Not only do I have the luxury to obtain an insanely easy to remember and spell email address, but I can create as many accounts as I need. Some throw-aways for website registrations, some permanent for family members.

Thus, I am free from *anyone's* uncertain future business practices. Will google ever charge? Will ads ever become too obstrusive? Will a general outage ever eat my emails for days while hundreds of google admins scramble to fix the problem?

It's becoming easier by the day to setup your own server, especially with all the linux distributions targeted for it and howtos and packages and blogs blogging on and on about how to setup your own Ubuntu server.

Plus, I have the added bonus of throwing whatever services I see fit on that box. A group of friends want a forum? Mom wants to put some pictures on the web? I have a ridiculously large file to use at work/friends or something? It does it all.

Re:Your own domain (1)

ladylinux (708017) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205001)

Hiya, "I do use the catchall service to try to track which companies sell my email address. " Do you enjoy all the spam that comes from this ?? Catchalls are evil evil things. Francesca

Re:Your own domain (1)

nytes (231372) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205039)

Heh. I bought my own domain a while ago and did pretty much nothing with it. But I recently move it (effectively) to Google Apps for hosting, now I'm using it a lot.

Re:Your own domain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19205283)

Prosound Stage and Lighting refuses to take me off their list (don't buy anything from them, you'll never get off the list)

When someone does that to me i just put thier IP block into my firewall.

Re:Your own domain (1)

Y0tsuya (659802) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205611)

Hear hear. Running your own mail server on your own domain means 100% freedom to do whatever YOU want to do with YOUR email. So whatever Google comes up with on GMail has no meaning to me, because I can do everything already.

What do you call this? (3, Insightful)

Jartan (219704) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204809)

Philosophy majors or debaters out there must have some fancy term for this kind of misleading argument? Clearly the only thing google is doing here is offering a service to ISPs that will maintain the status quo yet the article author is glossing that over and acting like google will now be responsible for the way ISPs might use what is essentially a software package that doesn't do anything new at all.

Re:What do you call this? (1)

hal9000(jr) (316943) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204917)

Much ado about nothing?

Making a mountain out of a mole hill?

Yet another boring post just because it has "google" in there.

Useless article. (1)

Cheezymadman (1083175) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204869)

I'd much rather know who still uses ISP email addresses over Gmail, Yahoo, or even Hotmail.

Re:Useless article. (0, Flamebait)

Kenyon (4231) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205181)

Holy shit, I logged into my old Hotmail account the other day. God damn was that a painful experience. Hundreds of spams in the inbox. You can't even view the full headers of an email anymore. Fucking Windows Live bullshit sucks on Firefox. I hope Hotmail dies a quick, painful death, along with Microsoft just for the hell of it. Fucking cancers of the Internet, like MySpace.

Re:Useless article. (1)

ryanov (193048) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205481)

Anyone who wants actual IMAP e-mail rather than some shitty web interface (if you've chosen your ISP wisely, that is)?

downside? ha. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19204895)

i've delt with timer warner/road runners webmail, as well as verizon's webmail. getting gmail would def not be a "downside" =\

It'll all come down to the price... (2, Interesting)

kcbrown (7426) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204907)

Customers who make use of their ISPs email have a significant disincentive to switch ISPs: their email address will change. This is similar to the situation most cellphone customers used to be in before legislation required cellphone providers to implement number portability.

So the cost the ISP will have to consider isn't just the cost of Google mail versus the cost of hosting their own, they'll also have to consider the effect going with Google mail will have on their customer retention rates. ISPs that don't suck will have less of a problem with that.

The ISP can minimize that issue by insisting that the user's email address remain username@ispname.net (or whatever). In other words, Google becomes the MX for ispname.net, and users who use the email service would log in by using their email address as opposed to just their username.

I can see it going either way, but I expect ultimately that Google will offer the service tied to the ISP's domain name, and expect that most ISPs will select that in order to retain the lock-in effect that ISP-specific email has on the customer base. I don't see any advantage to Google of providing their standard Google mail service to ISPs at a lower price than the one tied to the ISP's domain name.

Privacy? (2, Insightful)

kinbote (100263) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204931)

I don't want Google reading and storing my mail in perpetual archives!

I expect the feds love all this consolidated data collection that Google makes so convenient for them.

Re:Privacy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19205223)

Joe Sixpack won't care, as long as the government doesn't "disappear" too many people as a result.

PATRIOT ACT ring any bells? (1, Insightful)

MilesNaismith (951682) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204959)

If you let Google run your email for you, they will be subject at any moment to forwarding all copies of your email to any government agent that asks for it. And under the terms of the Patriot Act in the USA they can never tell you about it. Google is just another big soul-less mega-corporation that is only too happy to turn in Chinese dissidents as long as it profits.

I like the Berkeley sysadmin attitude a lot. I was talking with those guys recently and they consider themselves the guardian of campus data. If Feds show up waving a Patriot Act letter, there will be a fight over it, not just meekly handing them whatever they want.

IMAP and FORWARDS ring any bells? If there's one thing thing you know about GOOGLE it's just like MSN and Yahoo, they want to own your mindshare they do not want to share.

Re:PATRIOT ACT ring any bells? (2, Insightful)

DeadChobi (740395) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205517)

I was under the impression that the last time the Feds tried to get Google to sell out, Google fought it in court.

IMAP!!! (5, Insightful)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 7 years ago | (#19204967)

If the ISP had IMAP support, that'd be a downside right there, since Gmail still doesn't!

Re:IMAP!!! (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205405)

Gmail can't support IMAP properly because of the labels feature they have. Breaks IMAP spec.

The *Downide* of Your ISP Turning to Gmail... (1)

crazyvas (853396) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205023)

....is that your spell checker isn't as good any more.

Like shining a flashlight in a horse's mouth (2, Interesting)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205049)

This article seems force itself to make up reasons why this new service could be a bad thing. Whatever. Google may not be the second coming, but they offer some of the most reliable software I've ever used. It also works quickly and seamlessly : gmail and google are both faster than trying to do email and search using applications on my own computer!

The gmail spam filter is also a marvel. For some reason, it isn't talked about much : but in my experience, the spam filter is almost bulletproof. It has caught thousands of spam, with maybe one or 2 false positives that I have noticed. Maybe 10 spam have leaked through in the 2 years I have had gmail.

The charging of isps for this service only makes sense : google needs to have other revenue sources than advertising to be healthy, and they offer a more space than free gmail, which has ads.

This is a good thing. A very good thing. The only potential negative is portable of email addresses : but the ISP is google's customer. Not the end user. If the ISP doesn't want their email to be portable, then google will cater to that. (and the isp owns the domain, in any case)

Why would google force people to switch emails? (2, Interesting)

doormat (63648) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205059)

Why not just let users keep using user@isp.net and just tweak gmail to use that as the primary email address instead of user@gmail.coml. If ISPs are paying for it, who cares about how many gmail addresses people see and just take the money and run.

Re:Why would google force people to switch emails? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19205371)

If you use Google Apps you can clearly see that they will not need to switch mail addresses at all.. these accounts will NOT be @gmail.com, they will be @isp.net, or @mail.isp.net or whatever. No name switching needed.

Stop the man! (1)

kjzk (1097265) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205081)

I'm paranoid.

Article forgets... (2, Insightful)

MetalliQaZ (539913) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205131)

This article doesn't seem to put much effort into proving their point. In addition, they seem to completely ignore the possibility of Google forcing ISP mail users to submit to an agreement of their own devising, causing all personal email to be subject to data mining efforts. Whether it be for advertising or for future nefarious purposes, its much more of a downside than is "no domain name portability (boo-hoo)".

-d

Article Summary (4, Informative)

cgenman (325138) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205173)

Since so few people seem to be RTFA...

1. Google announces that ISP's will be able to release a google-apps branded for their users. This includes domain management, [google.com] docs, spreadsheets, calendar, web page creator, gmail, and 24 hour phone support.

2. MSN Austrailia points out that the ISP's will have to pay for the service. MSN Austrailia also points out that Google will tie users to their ISP account / domain instead of a more generic Google account. And they point out that Google's smallest ISP size bracket, 0 - 200,000 users, covers nearly all of the ISPs in Austrailia.

MSN Austrailia also takes pains to poke jabs at competing ISP's, specifically leaves out information, and otherwise sounds a lot like FUD.

I suppose (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205211)

This will be good for DoubleClick. They won't have to get into your machine anymore to get your contact list. Sure hope Google's laptop doesn't get stolen.

Random numbers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19205227)

>>(Google is a distant third with 51M users compared to Yahoo's 250M and Hotmail's 228M.

Sure, because Gmail is still in Beta and not open to free-range registration. The key difference is that one in three Gmail accounts are the same user squatting (I have at least six), whereas three in five Hotmail accounts are spammers. Perhaps three in five Yahoos are legit... so I imagine the numbers are more like: (my personal in parens)
17M Google (6 and a Google-for-your-domain)
91M Hotmail (2)
150M Yahoo (1)

Plus I have a couple with my ISP, and a personal e-mail domain, and half a dozen non-email domains.

No wonder I always post Anonymous Coward... have a hell of a time remembering who I am at any moment!

Not just ISPs (3, Interesting)

grilled-cheese (889107) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205241)

The new google partner program doesn't just benefit corperations. There is a very tempting for educational institutions aswell http://www.google.com/a/help/intl/en/admins/edu_be nefits.html [google.com] with benefits such as being free.

My university was plagued by unrelieability in several of its web services. After we made the transition there has been significantly reduced downtime for endusers http://www.acu.edu/news/2007/070410_google_launch. html [acu.edu] . One of the more beneficial changes for us was that students don't have their email expire after they graduate.

There are only a few drawbacks to the switch I've seen sofar. Migrating from one email server to another is not always easy. For us, it involved basically doing multiple pop3 fetches to move old email. The other drawback I've noticed is, while google may boast higher reliability, there is still one crucial piece that may have problems from time to time, Single Sign On (SSO). Google has to be able to cooperate with your SSO server sucessfully to syncronize properly.

The most interesting side effect I've noticed is that professors nolonger have any reason not to accept the odf and ods file formats, thanks to Google Docs&Spreadsheets. Definate boost for open file formats.

All I can say... (1)

Dormann (793586) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205319)

...is that I'm glad I'm not using an email service that is not the most popular,,,

B.S. (2, Interesting)

RKBA (622932) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205331)

SBC offered their Internet customers the option of switching from their own Prodigy provider to Yahoo email. I declined for obvious reasons (privacy primarily), but switching ISP's is trivial for me because most of my email is sent to Spamex.com email addresses of my choosing such as Whatever_I_Want@spamex.com [mailto] and all I have to do to switch ISP's is just change the redirection of my Spamex email forwarding account.

I also even purchased some cheap webhosting space so that I could run my own mail server and have as many email accounts that were independent of my ISP as I want. By the way, in my opinion StartLogic.com sucks really badly, but BlueHost.com has everything I want and more and works great. BlueHost is the only cheap webhost I know of that offers free SSH shell access.

While I'm off the topic ;-), all I really want is a webhost with shell access, lots of cheap webspace, enough bandwidth for my needs (a few TB's per month plus decent download speeds), and none of the GUI interface nonsense and all the fancy web applications that most web hosts provide these days. All I want is the type of account a university student or professor might have at their institution for example. Anyone know of any *Nix/BSD based webhosts offering this type of bare-bones service? Thanks.

Whoever heard of Google reinforcing binding? (1)

empaler (130732) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205411)

"(..) making it harder to change ISPs if a better deal comes along."

So... Setting up Outlook Express with the phone support poses too much of a challenge? POP3 not doing it for ya? Hell, I can even ask GMail to import mails as POP3 from my other Gmail App addresses (or the other way around). AFAIR, Google touted this as being "pro-consumer", for the reason that there's no lock in to Gmail, nor Gmail for your domain.

Of course, a case can be made for them reinforcing the binding by being excessively aweXome, but we can hardly blame them for it.

All eggs meet one basket (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205435)

That's the problem with monopolies period.

When it comes to data like email there should be a choice of providers, your data should be easy to back up and you should keep multiple backups preferably geographically spaced far apart.

I'm not too worried about email though. Many providers provide email and there's even a choice between free mail providers. I use pop to store it and web mail at my ISP to read sometimes.

Now usenet is another story. Find me another decent usenet reader/posting software that's free.

I hate relying on Google and it's been buggy as hell lately.

Huh? (2, Insightful)

watchingeyes (1097855) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205453)

How is the fact that you would be using your ISP's domain name a downside to Google Apps Partner Edition? That makes no sense.

Whether your ISP is hosting its e-mail services on Google Apps, Windows Live Mail, their own servers or wherever else, this same problem is present. This isn't a problem with Google Apps Partner Edition, this is a problem with ISP supplied e-mail services period.

Privacy issues would be a much more valid concern IMHO.

Maybe Slashdot should turn on posting by Gmail (1)

cmacb (547347) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205459)

That way they can get the articles spell-checked.

I don't think they have a logic-check yet though.

Instead of 10 GB space (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205503)

I think for most users, they could stick to around 2 GB, however, I believe adding another 10 MB to their 10 MB max attachement size would make a lot of users happy. Sharing digital photos is popular these days, and with the modern OMG 6 Megapixels! cameras and users not that technically minded, it's easy for them to slip out large photos, even when compressed to jpg. Of course, the proper "solution" is to teach the users, but still, it would help for sharing digital media in any shape greatly if they just added a little to that 10 MB limit. And also give them some added advantage there compared to the competition.

Now, up to 20MB (1)

vox nihili (1075165) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205613)

Actually, Google has changed this limit - I don't know when, but their "Help Center" page about this subject was updated about one week ago; now we can attach files up to (aprox.) 20MB:

http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answe r=8770 [google.com]

ISP to user issues (2)

Vskye (9079) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205539)

I really don't see how this would work that great, unless Google supplies the ISP the ability to change passwords, add email id's and such. This would have work with the ISP's current software, etc. (blah blah)
 
I work at a rather large ISP, and I really don't see the advantages. First off, customers always forget passwords, they already get 10MB of space per email account, and we allow 6 total, per account. (6x10=60MB)
 
The actual problem, is the people that just use the webmail interface, vs using a email client.(outlook, thunderbird, mac mail, etc) They use the email server as a storage space for picture attachments and such and they run out of space. Yep, over quota. Normally I explain to them that they are better off using a email client that actually downloads the mail to their computer, thus the quota issue won't effect them. Also, I recommend a good spam filter, besides the one we provide. ;)

what a horrible ISP (1)

eean (177028) | more than 7 years ago | (#19205563)

You sir provide a poor service to your customers.

And yes, I'm sure Google has thought of the password issue.
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