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Novell Partners With EFF on Patent Busting

samzenpus posted more than 7 years ago | from the strange-bedfellows dept.

Patents 167

Seymour writes "Novell and the EFF have announced that Novell will be contributing to the EFF's Patent Busting Project. Novell will also support the EFF's efforts toward patent reform, including with the WIPO. Could this be Novell trying to get back in the good graces of Linux users? 'Novell's agreement with Microsoft has been a source of contention within open source circles, with one Red Hat executive accusing the company of appeasing Microsoft; others have accused Novell of violating the GPL with the agreement. Either way, signing the deal with Microsoft did a lot to sully Novell in the eyes of many Linux users, and Novell's decision to link up with the EFF on patents may have been made with an eye towards getting some of its street cred back with the OSS community.'"

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Doesn't really work like that (5, Insightful)

26199 (577806) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249427)

For me, at least, there aren't any second chances. The great thing about the Linux market is there's plenty of choice. Why choose Novell now?

I won't be.

(Same idea behind not buying Sony ever again.)

Re:Doesn't really work like that (3, Insightful)

caffeinemessiah (918089) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249443)

Could this be Novell trying to get back in the good graces of Linux users?

Oh grow up. Novell doesn't give a rats a** if its "in the good graces" of Linux users. If MS gets serious about pursuing litigation (however unlikely), Novell is sitting on a plump little target -- Suse. MS (or anyone else who has a bone to pick with FOSS) won't go after end users -- it'll go after the cash cow that is Novell.

Re:Doesn't really work like that (2, Funny)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249475)

right because novell has been making buckets of cash these days, with it's dominating products like netware....

Re:Doesn't really work like that (3, Interesting)

lessthanjakejohn (766177) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249801)

I've surprisingly seen novell software in a ton of academic and corporate settings and I've experienced only a few... off the top of my head 10 or so out of 12 places I know of use Novell on XP

Re:Doesn't really work like that (1)

arodland (127775) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250023)

Yeah, ZENworks seems to be pretty popular. Crap, but widely-used crap. :)

Re:Doesn't really work like that (1)

Darkinspiration (901976) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250433)

better crap then sms tho.

Re:Doesn't really work like that (1)

Barradrewda (1016610) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249917)

Oh grow up. Novell doesn't give a rats a** if its "in the good graces" of Linux users.

Poor kids are friends with nerds. Nerds build cost-efficient machines. Cost-efficient machines choose Linux.



In Soviet Russia, system operates you.

Re:Doesn't really work like that (4, Insightful)

oztiks (921504) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249965)

If thats the case we would of seen similar reactions from Redhat or another enterprising companies that "sell" Linux. The way I see it if a smoker is to sue the tobacco companies for their own bad health, it opens the door for anyone else who smokes also to sue them as well.

I think in this case it would be exactly the same. Do unto Novell what you'd expect happen to your own company, with the recent adoption of Linux to Dell and the lacking of what is and what is to come i.e "Windows Vista" this is just yet another part of this constant struggle of playing the right tricks to make the most easy cash possible.

This whole coupon deal was just that, lets see, umm ... Microsoft threatens to sue Linux users, Microsoft finds a way to screw a distribution of Linux whose maintained by a company that needs Microsoft support in other product lines. Redhat you see doesn't need Windows where as Novell really does, just like Norton needs Windows but is also getting screwed with the same sort of tactics. After Microsoft finds this way to screw Novell and make that easy cash, they publicly announce (because they know they cant win) that they are NOT going to sue anybody for using Linux any time soon.

So what would you expect? Novel is like F**k what did we do? a) We pissed off a pile of people / businesses that use our product (or did) b) had a pile of our customers purchase something they didn't need c) worked directly with Satan himself, then bastard ran off with our soul and we look like a pile of D**ks to everybody now so lets go into repair mode PR style and see what we can do about cleaning up the mess.

Microsoft CAN'T sue Novell (4, Interesting)

DrYak (748999) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250691)

If MS gets serious about pursuing litigation [...] Novell is sitting on a plump little target -- Suse


No. Suse can't be a target for the simple reason that Novell and MS have both signed a mutual agreement no to sue (in addition to agree to collaborate for interoperation).
In fact, that's where the whole story began. Microsoft hoped (and somewhat managed it) that people think that this should mean is that Novell could get sued because of Linux patent infringement and thus signed a deal with MS. Whereas in fact, the net cash flow was massively in favor of Novell (thus you can imply that, maybe, MS was affraid of Novell, somewhat. Novell has indeed a lot of rights inherited from the original Unix).

And that's where the problem currently lies. Novell has earned $wad_of_cash with this procedure. But now Microsoft is starting to go after the rest of the OSS community. Novell knows that all comunity members must work together to protect their work. But Novell can't retaliate, because there's quite a few thing they promised in their agreement with Microsoft, and that $wad_of_cash is nice enough. They don't want to breach the contract and loose their precious.

Helping the EFF fighting is an indirect way that enables them to do thing some of which may be against their agreement with MS.
Just like before, MS used SCO as a proxy to try to sue Linux shops.

If MS threatens to sue over patents, Novell can't counter sue them, but they can help the EFF to either : bust those special patents OR destroy the whole bogus patent system through reforms.

Re:Microsoft CAN'T sue Novell (3, Insightful)

killjoe (766577) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250983)

MS won't sue anybody. They will transfer the patents to a third party. The third party will get investment from MS, MS executives, their buddies and others to the tune of a few million. The third party will sue.

The third party will not be developing any software so there is no chance of a counter infringement claim.
The third party will not be a signatory to any contracts and agreements MS signed with Sun, Novell or anybody else.

See how that works. The MS executives are sleazy dirtbags but they are not stupid.

Re:Doesn't really work like that (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19249451)

Same thing about even buying/keeping shares in the bad company.

At least they're using the money Microsoft gave them to stab them in the back.

Re:Doesn't really work like that (2, Insightful)

VirusEqualsVeryYes (981719) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249507)

(Same idea behind not buying Sony ever again.)


Absolutely no second chances? So, I suppose you're not buying Nintendo, either? Shame, that.

Re:Doesn't really work like that (1)

26199 (577806) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249663)

Eh? What did Nintendo do that was as bad as Sony's CDs?

Re:Doesn't really work like that (3, Funny)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249849)

Have you seen Wario wares for the Wii?

It makes your eyes bleed whilst you play, then as a double insult you get the tune in your head.
Its torture.

At least Sony rooted your computer, Nintendo manage to root your brainstem.

Re:Doesn't really work like that (1)

LordVader717 (888547) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250837)

Price fixing on a massive scale and the original inventors of Regional Lockout(TM)?

This does not make SENSE! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19249557)

* HARRY POTTER LIVES, he is a Horcrux and haves a Kid with Ginny Weasly. They get Married. * Voldemor DIES. * Ron and Hermoine get Married. * Fred and Bill both have kids. * The Last Text is a headline in the Daily Prophet about the Murder of Vernon and Petunia Dursley. * Harry see HIS PARENTS, Dumbledore, Sirius, Remus & Tonks (Remus & Tonks both die). * Harry makes a Horcrux while killing Voldemor. * The room with the viel is the final showdoan room. * The Voices and People that Voldemor have killed behind the viel will help Harry Win. * Malfoy helps him by standing by as occlumens blocking Harrys mind from Voldemor (Since Voldemor KILLED Pansy). * In the in-between after fighting voldemore Dudley KILLS HIS PARENTS! Copy&Paste everywhere!!!!!!!

Re:Doesn't really work like that (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19249651)

hat is why all the talk about convincing Novell dropping its pact with Microsoft never made any sense to me. People who were committed to Suse and dropped their support for Suse after the deal wouldn't rush back after giving it up because of mistrust and the effort involved. If Novell dropped their pact with Microsoft now, they would not get the full support of the community back which means the damage is done, and Novell would be giving up any of the positive benefits their pact provides (i.e. sales, interoperability collaboration, legal piece of mind for customers who actually have such a fear, etc.). Novell may have shot itself in the foot with the deal, but shooting itself in the other foot will hardly heal the wounds in the first. What heals wounds is time and avoiding anything that aggravates the problem.

Re:Doesn't really work like that (1, Redundant)

Sproggit (18426) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249731)

IF that IS Novell's intention, I'm afraid "Too little, too late"

You can't unfuck a pregnant hooker.

Re:Doesn't really work like that (4, Insightful)

physicsphairy (720718) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249807)

Why choose Novell now?

Because it is based on that expectation that their actions were pursued, and if you do not reward companies which make these 'selfless' maneuvers on behalf of open source, then none will. It's the same as eeking linux loaded comps out of Dell, in regard to which numerous persons have commented on the necessity of now purchasing these comps to validate the move.

Now, I've never used SuSE, and don't really plan to, and I'm not saying everyone should now jump ship to Novell in servile gratitude. But I do think it's fair for us to tender some rescinding of animosity in regard to Novell's previous patent deal--for those persons who were upset about it--or elsewise indicate appreciation of their latest move.

Why shouldn't we be nice to people who are nice to us?

Re:Doesn't really work like that (-1, Flamebait)

hdparm (575302) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249895)

Novell nice? They're just Ballmer's hore. Ask Jeremy Allison if you don't believe me.

Re:Doesn't really work like that (0, Offtopic)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251337)

Pardon me for flaming your spelling, but you should know there's always a W in "Whore" [opensecrets.org]

Re:Doesn't really work like that (4, Interesting)

houghi (78078) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250283)

Don't forget to take out any code put in the kernel, KDE and GNOME and other projects made by people that are payed by Novell. Put your money where your mouth is.

Re:Doesn't really work like that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19251159)

... and you put yours on a grammar book...

Re:Doesn't really work like that (1)

dpninerSLASH (969464) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251447)

For me, at least, there aren't any second chances. The great thing about the Linux market is there's plenty of choice. Why choose Novell now?

Novell was probably scared shitless. We've all seen how MS conducts itself on the stage, and when they approached Novell they probably did what they thought was in their best interest of their shareholders (you know, those annoying people who have the ability to destroy a company). That's the ugly paradox of Capitalism, and all large companies are equally affected (yes, even Microsoft).

Re:Doesn't really work like that (1)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251791)

For me, at least, there aren't any second chances. The great thing about the Linux market is there's plenty of choice. Why choose Novell now?
Better not give IBM a second chance either. They blew it with their strongarm tactics for over thirty years. Why allow them to be a friend of the free world now?

Anonymous Coward (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19249441)

Anonymous Does NOT Forgive!

Traitors (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19249479)

It's clear that the EFF has been infiltrated. Expect an EFF announcement soon that M$ and Novell should be embraced as pals. SCO redux anyone? Follow the money...

Same Old Story - With a Different Beat (5, Insightful)

Bob9113 (14996) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249485)

Husband sleeps with his secretary. Wife finds out. He buys her a Tiffany's bracelet. For some wives it's the bracelet that matters. For some it's the remorse (or lack thereof). For some there is no uncheating. Same story here.

Re:Same Old Story - With a Different Beat (2, Funny)

gselfridge (793768) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249555)

Maybe a bracelet from Jared would help.

Not at ALL! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19249587)

* HARRY POTTER LIVES, he is a Horcrux and haves a Kid with Ginny Weasly. They get Married.
* Voldemor DIES.
* Ron and Hermoine get Married.
* Fred and Bill both have kids.

* The Last Text is a headline in the Daily Prophet about the Murder of Vernon and Petunia Dursley.
* Harry makes a Horcrux while killing Voldemor.
* The room with the viel is the final showdoan room.

* Harry see HIS PARENTS, Dumbledore, Sirius, Remus & Tonks (Remus & Tonks both die).
* The Voices and People that Voldemor have killed behind the viel will help Harry Win.
* Malfoy helps him by standing by as occlumens blocking Harrys mind from Voldemor (Since Voldemor KILLED Pansy).
* In the in-between after fighting voldemore Dudley KILLS HIS PARENTS!

Re:Not at ALL! (-1, Offtopic)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249783)

* HARRY POTTER LIVES, he is a Horcrux.... etc.

Just think of all the brain cells you are wasting on storing that information.

Re:Not at ALL! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19250567)

So much for the argument that HP books makes kids read, which is good for their education....

oblig. (-1, Redundant)

cosmocain (1060326) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249499)

i, for one, do not welcome our unsteady and irresolute nouvelle novell-underlords.

*SCNR*

Patent Busting eh (4, Funny)

mastershake_phd (1050150) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249501)

Patent Busting? That sounds like a business model. I bet you could patent that....

Re:Patent Busting eh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19249715)

Ideas are not that easily patentable.
You forgot to add: Using a computer.

Captcha: Dragons

Too late! Once you go Slack, you never go back! (1, Funny)

SadGeekHermit (1077125) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249505)

Hail Dobbs!

FUCK NOVELL! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19249517)

Fuck Novell! You have chosen your side and we will not follow. Don't even imagine we'd jump in your bandwagon ever again!

Oblig (4, Funny)

phalse phace (454635) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249545)

Billg: Novell partnering with EFF? That's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft.

Useless against Microsoft? (1)

phayes (202222) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249621)

Wouldn't Novell's deal with Microsoft render anything Novell contributes useless against Free softwares biggest enemy: AKA Microsoft?

Re:Useless against Microsoft? (2, Insightful)

that this is not und (1026860) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250641)

Some of you apparently have adopted FOSS to be against something.

Can't you let go of that anger?

Re:Useless against Microsoft? (1)

killjoe (766577) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251007)

It has nothing to do with anger. It has to do with patented MS code contaminating GPLed code. Novell can either willingly or unwillingly inject MS patented and copyrighted code into the GPLed codebase so software from Novell should not be trusted unless the developer takes a legally binding oath that he was not exposed to any MS code or IP.

All this shows (2, Insightful)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249637)

Is that Novell are trying to have it both ways. But Free (not Open Source) Software is about principles, not realpolitik. Novell can't back both sides, or claim to be some sort of bridge across troubled waters. Well, they can, but we shouldn't be enabling them. Free Software is over hyar, Microsoft is over thyar. The only acceptable compromise is for Microsoft to surrender; we have nothing to gain by moving towards them.

Re:All this shows (5, Insightful)

giorgiofr (887762) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250135)

Why does one always have to make this kind of choice? OSS vs MS, MS is t3h debul, wtf... Every time I build a system I assess its needs and choose the right OS for the job. Sometimes it's Win, sometimes it's Lin, sometimes it's BSD, but *never* does it become a religious matter. Why do you, and many other people, make one out of such trivial issues as what OS to use?

Re:All this shows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19250773)

That isn't what he said is it?

The point was that you can't negate the concept of freedom and remain free. The goal of being free to use, modify and redistribute software is what the free software movement is about. Microsoft and their current business model are fundamentally opposed to the entire concept of free software.

For the record, I'm not religious and find that smear offensive because it implies irrational and blind belief in something; I'm a computer programmer and a software author. If you're not interested in the principles, think about which is best longterm for you, the user.

Re:All this shows (2, Insightful)

killjoe (766577) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251073)

Because principles are important to some people. Apparently they are not important to you but not everybody is like you. Some people boycott unethical and sleazy companies. Some people only buy dolphin safe tuna. Some people only drink fair trade coffee. Some people don't shop at walmart.

MS is a sleazy, unethical company run by people who are borderline sociopaths. There are lots of reasons not to support the corporation by buying it's products. When you buy MS products you are supporting them and their actions.

You support MS, most people do. Some people don't. Why is that hard to understand?

Re:All this shows (2, Funny)

mgpeter (132079) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251453)

Free Software is over hyar, Microsoft is over thyar. The only acceptable compromise is for Microsoft to surrender; we have nothing to gain by moving towards them.

Only the Sith think in Absolutes

Novell destroyed Suse! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19249659)

Suse was the prime example of excellent German engineering skills! Suse was built and documented so well that it was like turbo powered German BMW that worked like a Swiss clock. Then came Novell and messed it all up! Novell, you wrecked Suse and then teamed up with microshXt and now you are totally lost like a small child who has lost his mother in a huge shopping mall.
 
Why??? Why did you destroy Suse???

Re:Novell destroyed Suse! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19249727)

Suse was the prime example of excellent German engineering skills!

True, Suse had a rock solid distro. The only drawback was the enormous Scheisse video directory under /usr/share/Achtung directory. Why the hell did the beta testers allow that through? If it wasn't for that misfortune, Red Hat would've been wiped off my boxen.

Frankly, I'm glad an American corporation cleaned it up and removed the German race's known tendency of perversion. Sometimes puritanism is a Good Thing.

Re:Novell destroyed Suse! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19250033)

"Mooooom, if you were in a German scheisee video, y... you'd tell me, right?"

"... Of course, honey!"

Re:Novell destroyed Suse! (1)

Yetihehe (971185) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250617)

Suse was the prime example of excellent German engineering skills!

Then came Novell and messed it all up!

...and now [Novell] are totally lost like a small child who has lost his mother in a huge shopping mall.
Hmm, I have been lost in a German shopping mall once when I was a kid. It must be some property of German shopping malls.

Don't fall for this sham (-1, Flamebait)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249685)

Novell only wants "reform" to protect theirs and Microsoft's patent portfolio from the angry masses carrying pitchforks and calling for blood. Maybe they are scared that abolishment is becoming a possibility. One can only hope. Novell is the devil, and they are tempting the community with forbidden fruit.There can be no reform until patents and copyright are dead, dead, dead.

The proof of the pudding... (4, Insightful)

HiThere (15173) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249729)

Novell isn't yet, quite, in my list of totally untrustworthy companies. They seem determined to get there, but for now I'm willing to not condemn this move before I see the results. For now.

This doesn't mean that I'm willing to use or recommend Novell software. That appears wantonly reckless. Perhaps *AFTER* I seen the agreement with MS, and decide whether the redacted parts might be larger than a couple of words, and get some reactions from independant lawyers. Perhaps after that I'll be more willing to trust them. Maybe. And maybe just the opposite. The weasel words so far used in public commentaries don't inspire any confidence at all. They're rather like the MS pledge that "We don't currently have any plans to sue...". They could change their mind at any minute, and they aren't obligating themselves to give any warning. And there could exist plans right now that this spokes-thing just doesn't know about, possibly on purpose. Novell seems to aim more towards incoherence than ambiguity, but the effect is the same. The promises appear worthless, and certainly not legally binding. (And if a corporation is carefully insuring that its public statements aren't legally binding, what does that imply about its trustworthiness?)

Well, possibly these were off-the-cuff remarks, and not carefully thought out. Possibly. But they have explicitly refrained from making any carefully thought out statements that address the topic...unless they were so vague as to be worthless. (Or unless they were statements about how someone else would behave, which they obviously can't be responsible for.)

We'll see what gets published about the MS-Novell deal, and we'll see how this quest for "patent reform" works out. Perhaps after those resolve we'll decide that Novell was merely clumsy about what they did and were misunderstood. Possibly. Until then, however... well, Safety First. And that means avoiding Novell, as well as MS.

Re:The proof of the pudding... (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250383)

I guess thery should invest 10% of what they gained into patent reform.

They should be in our good graces... (5, Insightful)

dteichman2 (841599) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249747)

Novell worked out a deal with Microsoft. Novell got a big bucket-o-cash, and Microsoft got what still seems to amount to nothing.

Now with this, it seems like two things are true.

1.) Novell costs Microsoft money.
2.) Novell actively works against Microsoft.

Awesome

Re:They should be in our good graces... (3, Interesting)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249821)

"Novell worked out a deal with Microsoft. Novell got a big bucket-o-cash, and Microsoft got what still seems to amount to nothing."

And Judas got a pocketful of coins for only a kiss.

What did Microsoft get? Microsoft got _validation_ from one of the premier Linux distributors for what it considers pocket change.

I've got a question for John Dragoon: How do those pieces of silver feel now?

--
BMO

Re:They should be in our good graces... (3, Insightful)

apokryphos (869208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250013)

Using Judas terminology doesn't validate your point, unfortunately. Microsoft have always been claiming that Linux violates Microsoft's patents. This is NOTHING new. Novell couldn't have made it clearer that they didn't agree to any nonsense about Linux infringing on MS's patents, and Microsoft even openly admitted this wasn't part of the deal, and yet you'll still go on about it. :)

Re:They should be in our good graces... (3, Insightful)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250101)

Doesn't matter. Microsoft got what will be perceived by many as *external* validation, which isn't the same thing as them themselves parroting that Linux violates their patents.

Novell wanted to have their cake and eat it, and despite their assertion that they "couldn't have made it clearer that they didn't agree to any [such] nonsense", if they knew how the deal would likely be perceived in practice, such a statement is likely to be meaningless or just legal ass-covering.

Re:They should be in our good graces... (5, Insightful)

apokryphos (869208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250281)

That's nonsense. Novell have made it explicitly clear, and since they have, the only thing it possibly does is make Microsoft look silly (as they regularly do). Although you clearly don't want to admit it, this deal has been very beneficial for Novell (and, in turn, Linux), and it's hardly like Microsoft have used the deal to begin their campaign on Linux infringing on MS's patents -- that has always (ALWAYS) been around.

> if they knew how the deal would likely be perceived in practice, such a statement is likely to be meaningless or just legal ass-covering.

The only people who perceive it that way are some Microsoft speakers and a few clueless people in the Linux community. I haven't seen any indication anywhere else to suggest otherwise.

The reason 99% of the people (and, I know this from direct experience) in the Linux community are annoyed about this is because there's some (as usual) very vocal poisonous people [google.com] in the community who spute out countless of erroneous negative headlines without even knowing what's going on [opensuse.org] . Others in the community see these headlines, think the headlines alone are evidence, and don't even consider the matter. I mean, the amount of people I've seen who think that Novell have some immunity from Microsoft (completely false), or the amount of people I've seen who think that countless of people have left Novell because of this (when only two have permanently left), or the amount of people who think that Novell is losing money from this (when they're getting a few hundred million), or the amount of people who have no clue about Novell's hundreds of Linux engineers in the open source community (KDE, GNOME, Linux kernel, OpenOffice.org, etc), is always astounding.

It's an unfortunate simple fact: people like fighting for a cause when the ideal (freedom) is good, even when there's no threat to it or they're ignorant of who the enemy is.

This headline is nothing new from Novell (I mean, they're an OIN founding member), but people will still interpret it in a silly way.

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250373)

You know, this wouldn't be an issue if Novell was straight up about this in the first place, but since it's all so fucking secret, trying to explain it to people so they might understand is an exercize in futility.

JUST WHY DO NOVELL CUSTOMERS NEED PROTECTING FROM "MICROSOFT IP" BY THIS COVENANT NOT TO SUE?

Eh?

Nobody has explained that. John Dragoon has danced around it and totally ignored the issue. Miguel DeIcaza in his blog said that Sun "signed a similar agreement so they could distribute Gnome." I don't know about you, but that statement _me_ say "what the fuck?"

JUST WHAT THE HELL DID SUN BUY AND WHY DID THEY HAVE TO PAY MICROSOFT? Answer me that and the above question, in a straightforward manner, and I just might come over to your side of the argument, but nobody from either Novell, Sun, or Microsoft has been able to be forthcoming with anything that doesn't sound like tapdancing around the truth.

But no, we don't have any truth from any of the principals in this whole brouhaha. All we have is a bunch of lying weasels trying to paint the best picture for themselves and ass covers the size of the Moon.

Bitter? Moi?

--
BMO

Re:They should be in our good graces... (0)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250381)

I said:

  I don't know about you, but that statement _me_ say "what the fuck?"

Should say "statement makes _me_" there. Preview? What's that? :-P

--
BMO

Re:They should be in our good graces... (4, Insightful)

apokryphos (869208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250409)

> JUST WHY DO NOVELL CUSTOMERS NEED PROTECTING FROM "MICROSOFT IP" BY THIS COVENANT NOT TO SUE?

This has been answered countless times. Personally, I think Andreas Jaeger said it best [blogspot.com] : Let me state clearly: We do not think that Novell's Linux distributions violate valid patents - but if they do, we do change the code to avoid or work around the patent. Meanwhile we have some means in place to protect customers and developers better. So, it's some kind of important insurance.

We did not expect that Microsoft would sue individuals. But who would have known a couple of years ago that the record industry is going after individuals downloading or copying music and driving them in bankruptcy. Therefore the agreements consider a promise not to sue.


The meaning is clear: customers want the extra assurance. When you've got billions of dollars, you cannot avoid so many risks, you become a big target. This is why Microsoft customers asked for the protection from Novell as well, of not being sued.

Re:They should be in our good graces... (2, Insightful)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250553)

"This is why Microsoft customers asked for the protection from Novell as well, of not being sued."

Oh gawd, this is an ISSUE? Are you SERIOUS? This does not even pass the laugh test!

"When you've got billions of dollars, you cannot avoid so many risks, you become a big target. "

And Google is the biggest Linux user out there. Microsoft has not sued Google for the $BIGPAYOFF. Neither does anyone believe that Microsoft will even attempt it.

"We do not think that Novell's Linux distributions violate valid patents"

Then do what Redhat has done. Novell could have indemnified its users just like Redhat. Doing so does not need the cooperation of Microsoft.

Signing the agreement with Microsoft has given PERCEIVED validation to Microsoft's claims. Signing the agreement "admits" that Linux has "problems" be they real or not. What I don't get is why Novell didn't see this coming and that you refuse to admit the reality of Microsoft's most recent FUD campaign being _started_ by this.

In the war of words that Microsoft is waging, perception is everything, and Novell handed the PR bullet to Microsoft on a silver platter.

--
BMO

Re:They should be in our good graces... (3, Insightful)

apokryphos (869208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250589)

> Oh gawd, this is an ISSUE? Are you SERIOUS? This does not even pass the laugh test!

You can laugh it off but it's not addressing the very serious fact that customers have asked for it.

> And Google is the biggest Linux user out there. Microsoft has not sued Google for the $BIGPAYOFF. Neither does anyone believe that Microsoft will even attempt it.

Pretty bad argument. Just because Google might not be concerned, this is not to say that many other customers aren't (which they are). Microsoft would hardly get involved with Google over Linux (if anything) anyway.

> Signing the agreement with Microsoft has given PERCEIVED validation to Microsoft's claims.

No it hasn't. We can argue all day on how different people perceive it, or what the "spirit" of some agreement is etc etc, and yet the only things that really stand are the facts, what's written down. The fact that you have to get cornered into "well, it's perceived that way" when the only people who have implied that are some Microsoft speakers (a long time ago) and some people in the Linux community who don't know about the deal itself, is very telling.

Anyway, if the perceptions are erroneous (which you seem to imply) you should be battling against them, not the deal (or Novell) itself.

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250665)

"Microsoft would hardly get involved with Google over Linux (if anything) anyway."

Why not? You said that Microsoft would sue end users were it not for this agreement. Well, There You Go, the World's Biggest Linux User.

"We can argue all day on how different people perceive it, or what the "spirit" of some agreement is etc etc, and yet the only things that really stand are the facts"

I'm going to slow down the text so it will be clear to you:

T-H-E F-A-C-T-S D-O N-O-T M-A-T-T-E-R. I-N A W-A-R O-F W-O-R-D-S, M-I-C-R-O-S-O-F-T D-O-E-S N-O-T I-N-T-E-N-D T-O P-L-A-Y F-A-I-R.

Are you clear on that now?

--
BMO

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

apokryphos (869208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250899)

> Why not? You said that Microsoft would sue end users were it not for this agreement. Well, There You Go, the World's Biggest Linux User.

Because you're radically oversimplifying such huge patent issues? Your argument would need to show that no customers would care about the patent coverage instead of just showing that one (Google) doesn't.

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251161)

Novell have made it explicitly clear, and since they have, the only thing it possibly does is make Microsoft look silly (as they regularly do).
As I already said (the above is merely an expanded version of your original comment), I'm not convinced that Novell really believed that their agreement would merely "make Microsoft look silly".

Although you clearly don't want to admit it, this deal has been very beneficial for Novell
How the hell do you assume that I "clearly don't want to admit it"?

Where on earth do I imply that the deal *wasn't* beneficial for Novell? I said nothing of the sort; on the contrary, I would expect it to be beneficial for them in the short term unless there is a serious backlash.

Elsewhere, you accuse others of skimming detail- "Others in the community see these headlines, think the headlines alone are evidence, and don't even consider the matter"- but you seem quite happy to lump me in with- and assume I share the views of- others, simply because I happen to agree with them on one specific point.

(and, in turn, Linux)
This is only true if we assume that "what's good for Novell is good for Linux".

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251621)

the only thing it possibly does is make Microsoft look silly
Except that Microsoft has made press releases about how the deal means that Novell acknowledges that Microsoft has patents on Linux. And guess which company has the bigger spin machine?

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250207)

"Novell couldn't have made it clearer that they didn't agree to any nonsense about Linux infringing on MS's patents,"

Bullshit. Microsoft has the bigger bullhorn and the PR budget that just dwarfs Novell's entire market cap.

Just by merely signing the agreement, which is secret, allows Microsoft to say whatever the hell it wants, and Novell can do *fuck-all* about it. I have _zero_ sympathy for Novell, because they should have known better. And all of John Dragoon's (VP of PR) statements that this was good for Novell and its users are just laughable given Microsoft's actions in the intervening time since the signing.

If Novell was really looking out for its own interests, it should have given Microsoft two fingers up.

--

BMO

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

apokryphos (869208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250363)

> Just by merely signing the agreement, which is secret, allows Microsoft to say whatever the hell it wants, and Novell can do *fuck-all* about it.

Not when Microsoft have explicitly stated that it wasn't part of the original deal (which they have); makes your point a little moot.

> If Novell was really looking out for its own interests, it should have given Microsoft two fingers up.

Except:
(i) Novell have made a lot of money from this (which open source companies can always do with)
(ii) they have had wider access to more customers (HSBC, Wal-Mart, etc); something like over 40,000 SLE coupons have been sold from Microsoft
(iii) Their stocks have gone up
(iv) they've gained even more Linux engineers.

Doesn't sound like they're doing bad, right?

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250401)

"Not when Microsoft have explicitly stated that it wasn't part of the original deal (which they have)"

But that was _one_ statement on _one_ day while they've been threatening world+dog that those who use Linux are infringing on Microsoft IP and "y'all better sign agreements with us like Novell if ya know what's good for ya"

It doesn't matter what Microsoft said in an obscure press release that didn't get _any_ reprinting in any of the rags. What counts is what they've been shouting from the rooftops.

"Doesn't sound like they're doing bad, right?"

Yeah, it's been so freakin' good that the GPL3 is going to stop stupid shenanigans like that. Thank God.

--
BMO

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

apokryphos (869208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250439)

> But that was _one_ statement on _one_ day while they've been threatening world+dog that those who use Linux are infringing on Microsoft IP and "y'all better sign agreements with us like Novell if ya know what's good for ya"

It was also only one statement on one day when they said that Novell was acknowledging that Linux infringes on Microsoft's patents. This has never been a clear point in their righteous crusade against the free world.

> It doesn't matter what Microsoft said in an obscure press release that didn't get _any_ reprinting in any of the rags. What counts is what they've been shouting from the rooftops.

The comment hit a lot of news sites actually; many people in the Linux community however have conveniently forgotten it however (negative headlines stick so much better).

> Yeah, it's been so freakin' good that the GPL3 is going to stop stupid shenanigans like that. Thank God.

Quite nice how every point just bounces off you; still, despite what you like to think, the deal has been good for Novell (and hence Linux). Also, you clearly haven't read the FAQ [opensuse.org] if you're pulling the GPLv3 card.

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250605)

"Also, you clearly haven't read the FAQ"

Fuck the FAQ. It doesn't answer the questions I posed. Andreas Jaeger's answer really is a non-answer.

Why did Sun have to give Microsoft money to distribute Gnome as per Miguel's assertion?

Why did Novell enter a similar agreement if Linux doesn't infringe on any valid patents? If there was no threat, why acknowledge Microsoft's assertions about patents?

My gawd. We've had a lawsuit going on for 4 years with one company claiming that Linux infringes on its precious IP and it's all been a lot of hot air. Why encourage assholes like that? Why even give them the time of day? Why sign agreements with them? Microsoft is pulling the exact same chump moves that SCO did and you and others have fallen for them hook line and sinker.

Fuck Miguel. Fuck Microsoft. Fuck John Dragoon. Fuck everyone that says that this is a good deal.

--
BMO

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

apokryphos (869208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250885)

> Fuck the FAQ. It doesn't answer the questions I posed. Andreas Jaeger's answer really is a non-answer.

No, it answers it head on, and explicitly so. It's very easy to say "it's a non-answer" to suit your tantrum here but it's not so easy to substantiate that. You're persistently ignoring one very obvious fact: the deal was made in response to customers. Customers wanted the patent coverage. Novell are not admitting any form of infringement of Linux on MS's patents (and Microsoft verified that this was the case). Microsoft have not been using this to substantiate their war on the free world (that's a little myth you seem to be maintaining).

> If there was no threat, why acknowledge Microsoft's assertions about patents?

Because customers want the extra assurance? Keep ignoring that point all along, but it addresses your point.

> Fuck Miguel. Fuck Microsoft. Fuck John Dragoon. Fuck everyone that says that this is a good deal.

That's fine. While you're foaming at the mouth, I think I'll leave Novell/SUSE to actually continue being one of the greatest contributors to free and open source software, ever, for hiring hundreds of engineers to work on Linux. Developers to work and ensure that KDE, GNOME, the Linux kernel, OpenOffice.org, X.org/XGL/Compiz are constantly improving. To increase the usage of Linux around the world, and to continue being fierce competitors to Microsoft.

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

init100 (915886) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251473)

I think I'll leave Novell/SUSE to actually continue being one of the greatest contributors to free and open source software, ever, for hiring hundreds of engineers to work on Linux. Developers to work and ensure that KDE, GNOME, the Linux kernel, OpenOffice.org, X.org/XGL/Compiz are constantly improving.

While secretly inserting known patented code so that their business partners can sue the world later on. The probably have some secret agreement that they can have a part of the profits of that campaign too.

Re:They should be in our good graces... (1)

tomatensaft (661701) | more than 7 years ago | (#19249889)

Imagine how pissed they are at Microsoft!

Mythbusters... (5, Funny)

hoojus (935220) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250015)

They could make a show called Patent busters where they could test patents and mark them as Plausible, Prior Art or Laughable. Then to keep in the spirit of Mythbusters they could use explosions by blowing up the companies that try to sue based on Prior art or laughable patents.

Re:Mythbusters... (1)

NormalVisual (565491) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250747)

Sounds like a great show, so long as Kari Byron is still in it.

KOL novell (4, Interesting)

steveoc (2661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250025)

You have encountered an Horned Novell
 
`O'
/|\
  | [MScontract(tm)]
/ \
| |
 
He takes you by surprise and tries to Pimp slap you with his MSContract (tm)
Novell's attempts to work with the EFF are all well and good, but really .. for as long as there remains any ink on any deal with Microsoft's name on it:

An exploiter is you.

Novell may have gained many meat from this deal, but the loss of moxiousness is overwhelming. Until Novell clicks on the unequip link to the MScontract(tm) in their inventory, they will continue to suffer a permanent drain to their Moxie. No amount of practicing the accordian will ever be able to put this right.

How curious (2, Informative)

apokryphos (869208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250031)

How curious it is that so few people on Slashdot can read any FAQs [opensuse.org] .

Re:How curious (-1, Troll)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250201)

Thank you for posting that link, it seems to be easier to just refer people to basic information than to argue at this point.

Too many people are complaining about things they either don't understand or refuse to believe.

If you don't want to use OpenSuSE or other products, don't, but stop pretending like Novell products are evil without any valid reasons.

Re:How curious (4, Interesting)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250415)

I found this gem in the opensuse faq about the deal

"Novell has also created or is among the top sponsors of projects such as the Linux Kernel, GCC, OpenOffice.org, KDE, GNOME, Tomboy, F-Spot, Banshee, Beagle, (K)NetworkManager, Kickoff, Evolution, XEN, Xgl, and Compiz etc. Are you refusing to use any of those as well? Since they all have substantial amounts of Novell code."

Re:How curious (1)

apokryphos (869208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250453)

Yes, very few people know that SUSE, for example, employ more people to work on KDE (tied with Trolltech) and GNOME than anyone else, for example.

Re:How curious (1)

JRGhaddar (448765) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250563)

This is a very key point. I am so sick of the open source cry babies complaining about the Microsoft deal. Novell is doing what it can as a business to improve its market share. Sometimes that means working with companies like Microsoft. They have contributed an enormous amount to the community, and yet everyone cries when they try to expand.

Yet I have reason to believe that several of these same cry baby members buy console games that are also on the 360 or even own a 360. Either way you are contributing to Microsoft. People need to realize that YOU CAN'T CONTROL COMPANIES CHOICES on who they partner with. It's like telling members of your group of friends that you won't be friends with them unless they are only friends with friends you like.

Every single company that buys Suse, due to the Microsoft deal, and is switching from a full MS shop to a part Novell/Microsoft shop is good for linux. They may use SUSE now but 5 years from now they could switch to Redhat or whatever.

I am glad they are doing this with the EFF. It shows that they recognize a problem and are taking steps to address it.

Mod me a troll or flamebait I really don't care. It's just that WAAAAAAAAH NOVELL! , BOYCOTT NOVELL! is just a hypocritical broken record.

Re:How curious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19251441)

YOU CAN'T CONTROL COMPANIES CHOICES on who they partner with. It's like telling members of your group of friends that you won't be friends with them unless they are only friends with friends you like.
Yes, you can easily tell your friends that you don't want to hang out with them anymore because maybe they are hanging out with the wrong crowd and you don't want to be a part of it. Agreed you cannot control them, but you can let them go.

Every single company that buys Suse, due to the Microsoft deal, and is switching from a full MS shop to a part Novell/Microsoft shop is good for linux.
Good for Linux? Maybe, but certainly good for Microsoft/Novell profits!

BOYCOTT NOVELL! is just a hypocritical broken record.
And you are entitled to your *opinion* as are those that oppose the Microsoft/Novell deal. If a company does something you disagree with or object to on any level, you have no recourse except to boycott. It may change the company, and it may not. Either way as an individual you stand by your own personal beliefs, and I can't fault anyone for standing up for their beliefs.

Why i use OpenSuSE (3, Insightful)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250187)

I've seen a few people in this thread and others ask "Why use Novell software?". I assume in this case you mean SuSE linux, and OpenSuSE, so i'll start there. This is long, but true, I have used OpenSuSE long enough to recognize how useful it is compared to other systems available and these things are why I will not just abandon SuSE or Novell.

I have used Ubuntu, RHEL, CentOS, Gentoo, Slackware, and Fedora both in the past and quite recently, and at this time OpenSuSE remains the most usable Linux system available, for a variety of reasons, but in particular the Yast system. Yast fills in a lot of the gaps in Linux system and hardware management. Some of the Yast functions are not presently available anywhere else, and if you decide to use Gnome this is even more important because Yast fills in many of the massive holes in Gnome for these areas. And I don't mean just basic stuff, but more advanced things, like a GUI for inserting PCI IDs into a driver if your card doesn't match perfectly or at all, or a well made Xorg configuration panel, or very well designed network card configuration. It also has GUI configuration for almost every common network service daemon, such as ldap, apache, NIS, kerberos, bind, nfs, sendmail, samba and so on. Pehaps the single most important useful aspect of yast is that all of these functions can be completed over SSH, in a console, or without Xorg at all, because there are totally identical yast systems for both GUI and ncurses, this alone makes yast fairly unique.

OpenSuSE also has one of the best installers I have ever seen, and it beats just about everything. By everything I mean Windows XP, Windows Vista, OS X, and without a doubt every other Linux dist installer out there. Why you ask? Some very important reasons include its nearly perfect package selection, intelligent partitioning (that can create LVM and encrypted volumes for you), hardware preconfiguration, system cloning, and lots of other useful things that actually work. It also gave me a choice between Gnome and KDE within one disc, which gained it lots of points. It also has very nice system recovery that will check all essential files and replace them if you think something is broken. It will also repair grub easily and quickly, something you would otherwise need a livecd for anyway, that novice users could not do otherwise.

So you can see after that long rant, that there are things in SuSE that are custom and unique to it, many of them not present anywhere else. None of these things are proprietary and could be done by others, even Yast could be used by others as it was released as GPL by Novell.

So, I will not just abandon one of the best Linux systems available, nor will I immediately blacklist Novell for what is basically speculation at this point. Novell positioned the company as being highly dependent on Linux, Novell has more reason to stand by the community than it has to assist Microsoft, even with their agreement. And every day it seems Novell is looking more like the goodguy, particularly if they knew what would happen with those coupons, and now this EFF news makes me think they know more and have more planned than previously thought.

Re:Why i use OpenSuSE (1)

GnuDiff (705847) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250311)

Well said. I was going to write something to the same point, but you have made a better summary than I would have.

Re:Why i use OpenSuSE (1)

thehunger (549253) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250461)

Yeah, the SUSE install is great and the YAST tool is also great. With it a normal user can configure things like having the PC retrieve time from an internet source. With many other distros, the alternative is editing a configuration file...

However, even as slick as SUSE is, it had a major drawback for me: extensive software repositories. The Packman / Guru repo's simply don't cut it compared to the vast library of software available for Ubuntu. So I always wanted to switch, and made an attempt with Edgy but went back to SUSE pretty quickly. With the Novell-Microsoft deal however, I knew it was inevitable: i *would* switch one day.

I did with the latest Kubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn), and haven't looked back since.

Re:Why i use OpenSuSE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19250707)

> I did with the latest Kubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn), and haven't looked back since.
Same here. I recently installed openSuSE 10.2 and found to my dismay that the package manager has got even slower than before (although at least now it actually works unlike other recent releases). It was taking my laptop the best part of 5 minutes to bring up the interface what with all the downloading from various package sources (I did choose UK mirrors). After 2 months I ditched it for Feisty Fawn and haven't looked back.

Why i *don't* use OpenSuSE (1)

muffel (42979) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251373)

Funny, how perspectives can differ.

After a long time of using almost exclusively SuSE (ever since version 1.x, which as I remember was basically a repackaged Slackware) it was yast of version 10.1 that drove me away most of all. Not so much the functionality which I thought was at least adequate. But the speed! It now took ~10min to start up the software selection. WTF? And online updates? Trying to configure online updates sent me into an endless loop of registering online and yast not recognizing that I registered.

And while the yast "GUI" configuration for packages is nice for a start, it gets useless once you have to do something beyond its scope. As soon as you need to make one manual change to the configuration, you cannot go back to yast.

Add to that the confusion about what version of SuSE I held in my hands. I had bought a shrinkwrapped version of SuSE 10.1, but according to their website, it didn't exist. Did I have OpenSuSE? Maybe. It didn't say so anywhere on the package.

And then comes the MS-Novell deal with Novell starting to play the FUD game. No thanks.

So I started to look around. Our servers now run Debian, my desktop Ubuntu. Live is good again.

Re:Why i use OpenSuSE (1)

AceJohnny (253840) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251611)

so, in essence, you keep with Suse because of "technical" aspects, while many others refuse it for matters of principle.

I'm not judging anything here, and think your priorities are perfectly valid (although I personally disagree).

I just wanted to point this out as a perfect example of a schism in the open-source community: those who walk down a path because it is technically best (say, the Torvalds camp), and those who avoid that path because it is philosophically tainted (say, the Stallman camp).

I find this interesting. I just hope it doesn't break the OSS community up.

Novell might have been clever actually (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19250211)

I work for a bank. A big one. While they move much like other banks (like a dinosaur), they're starting to bring in a number of linux machines for some non essential back-end services. They picked SuSE Enterprise. To some, partnership with recognised companies is a whole lot more important than any notion of ideals or ethics.

Re:Novell might have been clever actually (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250299)

"They picked SuSE Enterprise. To some, partnership with recognised companies is a whole lot more important than any notion of ideals or ethics."

But Novell has already been a recognized company. I guess you missed the entire history of Novell and the urban legends of Novell servers being walled up like so many Fortunados, still running, but encased by wallboard (Alas, I have not run into any with bottles of Amontillado).

Novell is already famous. They didn't need Microsoft's blessing.

--
BMO

Street Cred? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19250305)

What does the summary mean about getting its street cred BACK with the OSS community?

I didn't think Novell had much street cred since the mid-90s, and I wasn't aware of any from OSS. (buying SuSE doesn't count, since that was "crap! NT/XP killed Netware - we need to get on this Linux thing to stay afloat")

You know why Microsoft chosen Novell (3, Interesting)

Pecisk (688001) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250413)

to do that "Linux is tained and stuff" trick? Simple. Before that, Novell where very close to offer full stack of apps/technologies/stuff for migrating SMB to Linux. Groupware? check, Groupwise. Good looking and working distro? Check, Suse. Enterprise technologies? Check, starthing from Zen network, etc. Commited resources to fixing things in open source stack? Check, Novell employ/employed lot of Samba/KDE/GNOME/OpenOffice.org coders. Microsoft actually nailed two rabbits with one hit - they pushed their IP war against Linux a bit forward and stopped capable company from gaining any marketshare and momentum. What makes me so mad that I can even bet that it was just because of some coorporation tricking (I could guess even on corruption inside Novell). I think Microsoft simply pushed right buttons and leadership of Novell, without thinking or consulting devs or middle management first, decided easily.

Of course it is all speculation and don't change a bit - Novell have to clean up their higher management and drop those agreements with Microsoft to get it right back on track - but it is kinda little bit sad that stupid decisions are made just because some people are so easily manipulated trough money.

Re:You know why Microsoft chosen Novell (1)

sjwest (948274) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250557)

I might put money that Microsoft's sponsored MIT professor Mccormack might be the next Microsoft approved Novell ceo. (bad survey ms fud covered here at /.)

Novell only bought Suse. Since the deal announcement I've got the office on to Fedora now (we where suse users before Novell screwed it up). We would not bother with Novell now. There existing products (admitted by Novells ceo) where rubbish and Microsofts where way better when he did a pr session with MS (covered here on /. too)

The coders at Novell are ok until Steve Balmer says to Ron the current ceo that the project is 'bad' or the GPL changes and makes there contributions useless.

Projects can be forked. Nothing is lost except for that exchange project that Novell withdrew its resources from after words from you know who.

Novell's management collectively failed the 'what being a partner with microsoft' really meant.

NEVER GET A IT SUPPORT JOB! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19250493)

don't you never ever get IT support job it will kill you mentally, physically and in any other way also. indians have filled tickets [nanc.com] .

Busting Novell patents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19250637)

Will Novell's own patents be understood to be "last in line" for a busting by the EFF now? Is this a way of Novell buying influence over the EFF? Or is this a not so subtle way of Novell saying that "Our patents are all good ones as otherwise the EFF would have busted them"?

Dear Novell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19250645)

Busting bogus patents and bending over to a company that almost every year files for one are two mutually exclusive choices.
Until you void your agreement with Microsoft, your whole product line, including SuSE Linux, will remain in the black list of products I will never use myself or suggest to my customers.

Really hard to guess intentions (1)

bl8n8r (649187) | more than 7 years ago | (#19250649)

If Novell is looking to undo the situation they've found themselves in, they should have done it when the Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement* petition came out. They had lots of time to rethink their decision. For all I know, Novell's intentions with the EFF may not be as noble as suggested.

[*] - http://techp.org/p/1 [techp.org]

Meh. (1)

trudyscousin (258684) | more than 7 years ago | (#19251649)

Play with shit, and sooner or later, you're bound to get it on you.

My father used that as a cautionary metaphor when it came to hanging out with bad company, and I think it pretty much sums up what happens whenever anyone gets into bed with Microsoft.

Thing is, that implies being a victim. Novell's a victim, all right, but I'd say it's a situation more of their own making. Years ago, with NetWare, they were the only game in town. In these days, they're struggling for relevancy, and it appears they're willing to follow whichever way the wind blows.
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