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Dell Ships Ubuntu 7.04 PCs Today

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the wait-is-over dept.

Linux Business 422

javipas writes "Today by 4:00 PM CST Dell will start selling three machines with Ubuntu 7.04 pre-installed. The two desktops (XPS 410n, $899 and Dimension E520n, $599) and the notebook (Inspiron E1505n, $599) will be the first three machines with the popular Linux distribution installed by default. There is little or no price differential between the Linux and Windows models; in fact, the entry level E520 Windows desktop is cheaper. Dell has announced that they will provide hardware support, and they've created a new site devoted to giving further Linux support and updates. At the moment the offer is only available in the US."

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422 comments

Only three ? (5, Funny)

bytesex (112972) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251071)

They must be mighty expensive then !

Re:Only three ? (-1)

linguizic (806996) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251107)

I don't know if that was supposed to be sarcastic or some geek joke I'm not privy to, but my guess is you should have read one sentence further in the summary:

(XPS 410n, $899 and Dimension E520n, $599) and the notebook (Inspiron E1505n, $599)

Re:Only three ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251339)

Not a geek joke, just a simple joke based on a 6 year old's ability to parse the English Language. I'm sure if you stare at it long enough you'll get it, but I suppose it was more important to get an RTFS out than to avoid looking like an idiot.

Re:Only three ? (1)

Cro Magnon (467622) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251545)

The joke, is that the way they phrased it, it sounded like Dell sold 3 individual machines with Linux.

Nope. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251133)

The headline reads a whopping 7.04 per day.

Re:Only three ? (5, Funny)

ronadams (987516) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251195)

Nah, they just shipped one for each of the three Linux users in the common marketplace who would buy a pre-built machine.

Big seller (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251461)

I hear Dell projects sell around a hundred within the next two months. That's probably shooting for the stars, but oh well.

Yeah, demand for Lunix is that high. People are really stoked foto get Ubunghole on their laptop.

Typical (1)

digitalgiblet (530309) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251079)

Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.

Re:Typical (5, Insightful)

HistoricPrizm (1044808) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251101)

Makes sense if you consider the bundled software that comes with Windows that the software manufacturers pay Dell to put on the systems. And if you consider the added cost for supporting a new OS.

Re:Typical (5, Interesting)

thegnu (557446) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251117)

Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.


I think for Linux installs they don't get revenue from Symantec's trial of the worst security suite in the world, WildTangent, Office trials, Quicken trials, video game trials, some poker, etc.

So maybe it DOES cost less overall to install Windows.

Re:Typical (0, Flamebait)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251135)

Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.

It makes perfect sense to me. First, they build the PC with Windows installed on it, then they have to pay someone to uninstall Windows from it and install Ubuntu.

They then pass the cost of the Windows license, and the work to remove it and install Ubuntu onto the customer, so obviously it will cost more!

Re:Typical (0, Troll)

ronadams (987516) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251221)

Nice try, but when you're a large vendor such as Dell, it doesn't work that way. Refer to MSFT's partner program (50,000 points or more).

Services have a cost (1)

Nymz (905908) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251283)

Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.

If that was the only cost difference, then it would not make sense. But I suspect the cost difference is due to the volume spread of customer support.

As a bussiness, if you were to add support services for any OS or item, the totality of that support would have a total cost. Divide that cost by the number of customers paying for that service and you have your price. Thus more customers, equals greater volume spread of the cost, equals smaller price per customer.

Now I'll leave it to someone else to divulge or speculate on whether Dell sells more systems with Windows support, or more with Ubuntu support.

It makes perfect sense (5, Insightful)

Toby_Tyke (797359) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251303)

There was a story on Ars Technica a while back (I don't have the link, sorry) where Michael Dell was doing a question and answer session, and someone asked him how much extra they would have to pay to get a PC without "Craplets". The figure he gave was $50 - $60.

Now, I don't know how much Dell pay for a vista license, and I don't suppose we will be finding out any time soon, but if it's less than $50 dollars (which would not be a shock) then the Linux machines being more expensive makes sense. If I had to guess though, I think they will probably sell for the same price as the Windows machines.

Re:It makes perfect sense (3, Informative)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251489)

For us, as an IT service provider, a single license of Vista Home Basic costs 105.50 CHF, that's 85 US$.

We do not have any special rebates, so that's just the _STANDARD_ price. The chance that it costs Dell a bit more than half the sum we have to pay is very likely.

Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (5, Insightful)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251093)

Microsoft pays a heavy subsidy to lock people in. So it costs you negative money at first, but believe me there is a positive cost at the end that more than makes up for it, or else they wouldn't do it. Open source is the same price the whole time: free.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (1)

Ngarrang (1023425) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251127)

No that Linux is shipping from a major seller, can we now begin to complain about the Linux Tax on a PC?

"We have to charge a few dollars more because we had to take more time to create the Linux config. Not all of the hardware was supported."

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (3, Insightful)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251139)

Don't forget that at the moment, Windows is also cheaper to support. That cost is built into a Dell, since they provide support for 'free' after you buy the PC. They charge for that up front.

One would initially think that only those who know linux will buy one of these with Kubuntu on it, but as more techs convince family and friends to buy them, support costs will rise.

I've never bought a brand-new laptop because I don't really need one, and it's always been a hassle to guarantee Linux will work on it, before I buy it. For only $600 though, I'm seriously considering one of these. It'll depend on specs and if they sell out too quickly. We'll see.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (5, Informative)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251185)

I just looked... The Inspiron E1505 with Windows starts at $699... That makes the Linux version $100 cheaper. Very nice.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (3, Informative)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251155)

Microsoft pays a heavy subsidy to lock people in

Eh?

It's all the other software vendors apart from MS who pay for their adware/crapware/scareware to be on the Dell Desktop.

3rd party software (5, Insightful)

dj245 (732906) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251231)

Dell pays for Microsoft software just like everybody else. They don't pay very much, but they still pay a little for it. The difference is the 3rd party stuff. The Norton/McAfee third party trials. The AOL links on the desktop. The Nero trials and all the other stuff you either uninstall or wipe with your own installation of XP/what-have-you. *Those* are the sort of things that Dell gets kickbacks on.

Re:3rd party software (1)

Tuoqui (1091447) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251555)

Uhh WTF? I thought the default installation of Windows XP spit out stupid things like AOL Trial links on the desktop? Dell isnt unique in that regard.

Re:3rd party software (1)

Xabraxas (654195) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251689)

Uhh WTF? I thought the default installation of Windows XP spit out stupid things like AOL Trial links on the desktop? Dell isnt unique in that regard.

Please tell me you are being facetious. Either that or you have never installed an OEM WinXP.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251369)

For those who want Linux and are not really computer literate, they may rudely learn that what they thought was knowledge is actually OS manufacturer specific syntax.
For Example :
Uh Hello tech support .. Where's all the .exe files ?

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (2, Insightful)

dave420 (699308) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251529)

Score: 5, Usual bollocks

Microsoft doesn't pay a subsidy. That's ridiculous. Windows is cheaper for Dell as the support infrastructure is already there, and has been there for years and years. A new OS on their line means they obviously have to spend more in getting more staff/callcentres/training/etc. to support it, hence the increased price. It wouldn't make much sense for them to charge non-Ubuntu users for this cost, as that would raise the prices of other lines for no apparent reason. Open source is anything but free all the time, but please don't let reality spoil your fun. Whatever gets you through the night, buddy.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251671)

The only way for your scenario to work would be for MS to pay the OEMs to install windows (since they are competing against a free OS), but, as I'm lead to believe, it is a combination of the unbelievable discount that OEMs receive off the price of Windows and the subsidy that crapware makers pay to have their product installed by default.

Now all we need to make linux truly competitive is a port of AOL and MusicMatch.

OK fanboys... (5, Insightful)

monk.e.boy (1077985) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251105)

.. you've been asking for this for, let me think, for ever.

It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!

Put your money where your mouth is :-)

monk.e.boy

Re:OK fanboys... (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251181)

It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!

I actually do need a new notebook, but there'll be a blizzard in Hell before I buy a low-end notebook from Dell. Too many problems with clients' notebooks and my sister's Inspiron to feel comfortable with that.

-b.

Re:OK fanboys... (1)

mw13068 (834804) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251239)

You know, nobody is gonna force you to buy one, right?

Personally, I'm happy about this news because my employer buys all desktops and notebooks from Dell (since our Uni has special arrangements with Dell or something). I'm glad I'll be able to order my next office computer and tell them to get one with Ubuntu. (which I'll erase to install Debian Stable).

Re:OK fanboys... (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251293)

Personally, I'm happy about this news because my employer buys all desktops and notebooks from Dell

Hey, if your employer buys garbage and is willing to handle the warranty claims, hassle, and aggravation, good for him. BTW- Dell desktops are fine -- I just have had major issues with their low-end notebooks in the past.

-b.

Mod parent up; not a troll. (5, Insightful)

Virak (897071) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251227)

If nobody buys these, I seriously doubt they'll keep them around. And if Dell drops them due to lack of demand (in real life, not on the Internet), Linux will end up farther from getting on the average person's desktop than before.

Re:Mod parent up; not a troll. (3, Interesting)

Billosaur (927319) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251607)

Agreed. This is the kind of marketing Linux has needed for a while to begin to impinge on the consciousness of the average user. As long as they had to call their geeky neighbor and have him/her install it on their box then spend weeks getting acquainted with the differences, Linux was not going to get any respect. Now, there may be a chance.

Re:OK fanboys... (1)

Otter Escaping North (945051) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251427)

It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!

Put your money where your mouth is :-)

I have money! It's right here!!!

*waves money*

But, I'm in Canada, you insensitive clods!

Seriously, I know this is starting to get pedantic, but any chance we could get a notebook with a WSXGA+ display? I have to use Eclipse, you see - and its monster real estate. I can be talked down to WXGA+.

Please, Mr. Dell, sir.

Re:OK fanboys... (1)

fosterNutrition (953798) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251727)

any chance we could get a notebook with a WSXGA+ display?

I don't know what their current offerings are, but my laptop (purchased one year ago) has a 17" widescreen monitor running 1920x1200 as its native resolution. Eclipse looks lovely.

Now, this was an upgrade given as one of the "special offers" that seem to run permanently, so I'm not sure about whether you can typically get it.

As a side note, it is an Inspiron 9400.

Re:OK fanboys... (1)

PinkyDead (862370) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251451)

I'm not sure that's completely true.

Firstly, before the whole Dell hoo-ha started I seem to remember the big thing was to get your money back for the Windows install that you never wanted.

Secondly, most Linux fanboys will install their own OS - it's part of the charm. Support for drivers is the most cited complaint here - not Dell supporting the box they sold you. And it's not really support that's required - more, less of the anti-support, i.e. obfuscating technical specifications to ensure the only the supplier that 'owns' you can support your hardware.

Thirdly, the target market here in unlikely to be the Linux fanboy - more likely someone with limited ability that wants to try out something other than Windows and/or companies that have the technical expertise who want to reduce their costs but are unwilling to expend time/resources supporting the OS when Dell could do it.

Finally, no true Linux fanboy would ever be approved for a credit card.

Re:OK fanboys... (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251617)

<nose in air>
CLEARLY anyone who would use a superior OS like Linux would NEVER stoop to such an inferior vendor like DELL!
</nose in air>

I'm already seeing these comments. This attitude tells me that getting Dell to sell Linux boxes is more about pushing their OS onto the uneducated rubes and less about satisfying their own needs/wants.

Re:OK fanboys... (1)

NickFortune (613926) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251803)

I'm already seeing these comments.

Yeah, me too.

Of course, all the instances I've seen have been windows fanboys busy constructing straw men, or just scattering flamebait. Usually with way too much use of block caps for emphasis.

I've not been taking them very seriously.

Inspirons (1, Informative)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251149)

Why only ship their most cheaply-made, crappiest notebook with Linux? Are they trying to give Linux a bad rep. by bundling it with that kind of hardware? Dell's higher-end notebooks may be OK, but the $500-600 range Inspirons aren't on that list.

-b.

Re:Inspirons (1)

mw13068 (834804) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251193)

I have an older Inspiron 6000 running Debian, and it works great. Wireless, modem, and all.

Re:Inspirons (1)

rumith (983060) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251215)

I guess there are people who cannot afford a more expensive notebook, as well as people who do NOT need a more expensive notebook.

Re:Inspirons (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251261)

I guess there are people who cannot afford a more expensive notebook, as well as people who do NOT need a more expensive notebook.

The issue isn't features. It's fragility and quality, which is lacking on the lower-end Inspirons. As far as affording a notebook, there's an abundance of good used Thinkpads for $500-750 -- why anyone would choose a new crappy Dell instead boggles the mind.

-b.

Re:Inspirons (5, Informative)

d3ac0n (715594) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251309)

Keep in mind those are the BASE prices.

They are basically the lost leader prices they use to "get you in the door". Once there you can still customize the laptop or desktop with any number of hardware selections, including more RAM, better processor, and larger hard drive. These machines also come with dedicated video cards, as the integrated video isn't supported very well by Ubuntu. So you are STARTING OUT with a better base model than the Windows base model. (Which also explains why the Linux laptop is more expensive than the Windows one.)

My company has been a Dell shop for as long as I have been here, and I've become VERY familiar with Dell's setup. Keep in mind, Dell has been selling "open Source" (Free DOS) Desktops and laptops for YEARS already. Adding Ubuntu isn't THAT much of a change for them. I'd also imagine that you will find that the support package offered by Dell will actually be a Canonical support contract. This was a natural next step for Dell, and I think that all Slashdotters should get behind them. Not just with their words, but with their Dollars. I know that when it's time to replace my personal laptop (in about 6 months), I'll be going through Dell, and getting an Ubuntu Laptop.

Good on ya' Dell!

Re:Inspirons (3, Insightful)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251357)

I know that when it's time to replace my personal laptop (in about 6 months)

And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.

-b.

Re:Inspirons (5, Interesting)

d3ac0n (715594) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251645)

And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.


Unless you are going to be buying a used Mac Powerbook, I doubt that will be happening.

A used notebook is going to be used, abused, and worn out. Even the much-vaunted Thinkpads are not indestructible, and the notebooks that sell at the prices you mention are going to be more than 3 years old, and completely out of date.

I've not found the Dell laptops to be any better or worse than the competition, and I carry my laptop with me pretty much everywhere I go, so it gets plenty of abuse. It sounds to me like you just have a bug up your butt about Dell. With that I cannot help you, as no matter what I say, your obvious irrational hate of all things Dell will not allow you to take a balanced approach to this issue. It's too bad, because Dell and Ubuntu really do need our support as a community if this is going to work. Trolling Dell for personal reasons just gets in the way.

And before you go off on me as a Dell fanboy, Keep in mind that I was hired into an already established "Dell shop". My company as a long-standing relationship with Dell, and regardless of my personal preferences, Dell is what we use. We have thousands of machines, all Dell, and I have had to work on EVERY ONE of them. I have dealt with Dell support, and I have worked with a Dell Rep. So I'm not just working on the one or two machines owned by family and friends, these boxes are my job to keep running. I have found that duty to be reasonably easy. Yes, we have had our share of lemon machines, but no more than I have run into at other places, with other makes of PC. Dell is no worse or better than any other manufacturer in regards to the general quality of their PCs, excepting perhaps Apple, but those aren't so good in a Windows software programmer shop, so I can't get them.

Dell deserves our support. They listened to their customers, and are giving us what we wanted. They deserve to have this risk rewarded.

Re:Inspirons (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251737)

A used notebook is going to be used, abused, and worn out. Even the much-vaunted Thinkpads are not indestructible, and the notebooks that sell at the prices you mention are going to be more than 3 years old, and completely out of date.

I've spent $220 and $350 respectively on my last two notebooks. They may be out of date, but they work fine for office stuff, on-site troubleshooting, and graphics editing. And neither of the two was particularly beat up when I bought them.

And, BTW, where can I find a good used Powerbook (I assume G4) for ~$400? I kind of want one again but I can't seem to find any good cheap used ones.

-b.

Re:Inspirons (1)

sfarmstrong (1106577) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251411)

Why only ship their most cheaply-made, crappiest notebook with Linux?
Not to sound negative, but why would I want Linux on a high-end gaming rig?

Re:Inspirons (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251465)

Not to sound negative, but why would I want Linux on a high-end gaming rig?

Um, features aren't the issue here. Lack of quality and durability is -- I actually use my laptop as a portable, meaning that I throw it in a backpack and take it to client sites, put said backpacks on train luggage racks and have had stuff dumped on top. So far, it's survived more or less intact. I don't think that a flimsy Inspiron would do the same.

-b.

Re:Inspirons (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251751)

I don't think anyone would blame Linux for a physically broken Notebook.

Re:Inspirons (2, Insightful)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251781)

I don't think anyone would blame Linux for a physically broken Notebook.

People are funny -- they'll think: isn't that the OS that they put on cheap crappy computers? A lot of people don't differentiate the computer hardware from the OS -- they think of computers as Windows, Macs, or Linuxes.

-b.

Re:Inspirons (1)

StringBlade (557322) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251597)

This is still a venture and a risk for Dell. I'm surprised they included an XPS system in their initial launch.

While there may be better Dell laptops, $600 for a guaranteed-to-work Linux laptop is pretty good; especially considering this is a major OEM backing it. If people buy these computers as much as they made it sound like they would in the Dell feedback site, then I'm sure their product offering will expand.

When? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251173)

And when this will hit Europe or Non-US countries?

Next to worthless (5, Interesting)

JonasH (183422) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251189)

I don't see many people buying the more expensive model, just to have Ubuntu pre-installed, except maybe to make a point to Dell (very few will do this). Let's face it, the people who want Ubuntu are pretty likely to just buy the cheaper model and install Ubuntu. This might work in some distant future where people without technical knowledge want Linux, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong by history though.

Re:Next to worthless (1)

deadlocked (864900) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251571)

valid on all points, but I would be more tempted to buy a laptop that had Linux support, even though I would install it regardless

Re:Next to worthless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251775)

I'm sure there will be many people who will buy the Windows version, try installing Linux, and post their experience on the web for others. Concern about hardware being supported will occur when a new model is launched but becomes a known value soon after.

Don't bitch about the price (0)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251201)

Remember, Microsoft essentially pays to have it's OS on OEM machines. It is a negative cost: the only thing free can't always compete with.

Re:Don't bitch about the price (1)

figleaf (672550) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251417)

Microsoft doesn't pay. Its Google, Symantec, Corel, AOL etc. who pay to have their preinstalled crap on the system. Essentially paying for the cost of the OS + making a little profit for the manufacturers.

Re:Don't bitch about the price (3, Informative)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251421)

You what? I think you will find Dell, HP etc pay MS to have windows on their machines. Where the fuck do you think a large percentage of all that cash MS has came from?

Re:Don't bitch about the price (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251795)

"Remember, Microsoft essentially pays to have its OS on OEM machines."

So does Ubuntu, according to the rumors.

Oh, I mean, "financial details not disclosed".

Dial Up (1)

sYkSh0n3 (722238) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251205)

How are they going to handle dial up issues? Are they going to include the same conexant modem? I have problems believing they have worked out a deal to use the linuxant driver.

This has actually been my biggest issue getting ppl to switch. I live in BFE, and a lot of ppl are still using dial up. Nobody wants to fork out extra cash to switch operating systems when they already have windows up and working for "free"

What they fail to mention (1, Insightful)

kseise (1012927) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251213)

They fail to mention that the linux boxen come with a free copy of Office (a $300.00 value), free copy of Photoshop ($??? Value), and thousands of other free programs that will ultimately save you money. No, it doesn't make up for the base price of the OS, but with Linux, you don't just get the OS.

Re:What they fail to mention (3, Insightful)

arabagast (462679) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251327)

all true, except the line about photoshop: not to flame about gimp - but it's no photoshop. It's great and all, but (at the moment) it's not even close.
Some day I hope they get there, but that day is not today.

Re:What they fail to mention (1)

Ekhymosis (949557) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251385)

One could always use Photoshop with wine or crossover office...or keep complaining.

Re:What they fail to mention (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251431)

all true, except the line about photoshop: not to flame about gimp - but it's no photoshop. It's great and all, but (at the moment) it's not even close.
In your estimation, does GIMPShop compare well to Photoshop Elements?

Re:What they fail to mention (1)

phishtrader (741975) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251787)

GIMP = $0.00 Adobe Photoshop CS3 = $641.99* Which is a better value if you're not wiping your butt with $100 bills? * newegg's price as of today

Re:What they fail to mention (1)

binaryspiral (784263) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251335)

What they also fail to mention is that with this purchase you have:

A telephone number to call for support of your Linux OS without additional charge and hardware driver support to ensure all parts of your PC work out of the box.

Now with that being said, open up the floodgates of Dell technical support bashing. Come on, you know you want to hit that reply button and post your favorite bashing...

http://www.toppctechs.com/images/tech1.swf [toppctechs.com]

Re:What they fail to mention (1)

Ekhymosis (949557) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251433)

While the recent bad press of Dell's lovely tech support is a bit of an embarrassment, I'm sure that many Ubuntu/Linux enthusiasts will be monitoring the Dell Linux forums (if Dell does make them decent) to help people along. I've used Ubuntu and was amazed at how courteous, helpful and friendly people are on the Ubuntu forums, but as a Gentoo user I prefer the tough love of the Gentoo forums =p

Re:What they fail to mention (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251347)

yeah, because there is no oss alternatives to ms office for windows. [rolling of eyes]

and never, ever think that gimp can take the place of photoshop. far beyond and windows/mac fanboism, photoshop has no equal. for the people who actually shell out the $$$ for photoshop and use it like it was ms paint that's their problem, but that certainly doesn't make gimp equal to photoshop.

your "argument" is fud, straight up.

Re:What they fail to mention (3, Insightful)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251403)

and never, ever think that gimp can take the place of photoshop.

Not everyone does professional-quality PAPER graphic design. For most Web work, GIMP is just fine.

-b.

Re:What they fail to mention (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251567)

and i agree with that statement but, let's be honest, gimp is no photoshop. to claim that installing gimp (also available for windows) is just as good as adobe's flagship product is a complete lie. again, you are correct in that gimp will suit the needs of many paying photoshop customers but there is tons of stuff that gimp simply can not do including all the third party apps and community support that gimp dreams of.

No Ubuntu option (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251223)

The link takes me to Dell Open Source Notebooks page where I can configure 3 laptops which offer "FreeDOS" as the OS and no other option. So where is Ubuntu?

I wonder.. (1)

arabagast (462679) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251251)

Will dell, when they see that the sale of linux is not to great, check to see the sales of those exact models - since there is no actual reason to buy a linux pc from dell right now, I expect people to buy the windows version and wipe and install themselves.
At the time being there is no point in buying a linux dell, since it's the same price, and if you buy the windows one you get more; a windows license and a computer you know you can run linux on. What's the point of buying the linux one ?
(I know, I will probably buy the linux one, since I have no use for the windows, but it actually makes no sense to the average person to buy the linux one, since you get more for less/same price with the windows one)

Re:I wonder.. (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251491)

Will dell, when they see that the sale of linux is not to great, check to see the sales of those exact models - since there is no actual reason to buy a linux pc from dell right now, I expect people to buy the windows version and wipe and install themselves.
At the time being there is no point in buying a linux dell, since it's the same price, and if you buy the windows one you get more; a windows license and a computer you know you can run linux on. What's the point of buying the linux one ?
Perhaps the Linux one has different hardware. An OEM may make room for the Windows license in the price by cutting corners on components, using (say) a cheaper modem that has a Windows driver without regard to whether it has a Linux driver, and then using the more expensive components in the Linux PCs. There's also the support contract for Ubuntu OS, which comes with the Ubuntu PCs but not the Windows PCs.

Re:I wonder.. (1)

arabagast (462679) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251835)

wouldn't that just be more expensive ? it must be a lot cheaper to have the least difference, hence a lot less complicated assembly.

Other Countries (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251311)

When is Dell going to start shipping Ubuntu with there computers outside the US?

I'm English and would like to buy a laptop pre installed with Ubuntu in the next couple of months. I worried that it will never happen. Anyway I'm giving them a couple of months otherwise I'm getting an Apple.

I would have thought... (1, Insightful)

sticky_charris (1086041) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251477)

... that almost anyone clued in enough to decide that they want Ubuntu would be clued up enough to just buy the Windows version and install Ubuntu dual boot. Most linux users still have some use for windows and its lice to have it legally.

I wonder what discount could be had if there was a 'no support' option? I can't see regular home users queuing up to buy something they are unfamiliar with if the price is the same.

Re:I would have thought... (5, Insightful)

Otter Escaping North (945051) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251757)

... that almost anyone clued in enough to decide that they want Ubuntu would be clued up enough to just buy the Windows version and install Ubuntu dual boot. Most linux users still have some use for windows and its lice to have it legally.

Well, tell ya what - I want Ubuntu, I want it on a laptop, and I think I'm clued up enough (been running linux for years; two Slackware servers and an Ubuntu desktop at home; I switched my work-machine from Windows to Ubuntu and then wrote a guide that nine other colleagues used to do the same).

I'm pretty confident that I've got the skills to buy the Windows machine from Dell, and switch it myself (though no, I wouldn't dual-boot, I have no use for Windows on it). I could probably find the right drivers for the GoofyCool wireless card, get the sleep function working, etc, etc, etc. As I said elsewhere, I've even got the money. So why don't I? To be honest, I really don't have the time. Married, kids, full-time job, plus other responsibilities. Something else would have to suffer - something that (and here I put my geek-card at risk) frankly, is more important than a new toy.

I don't want to shell out a grand or whatever and then have to spend time I don't have to turn the machine into what I actually needed in the first place. There is a time I would have, and would have relished the chance - but that time is long passed.

I'm a reasonably sophisticated Linux user, and even a Linux advocate - but in this case - I'm primarily a consumer with a need and the willingness to pay for it. The guy who offers to fulfill that need, gets the cash.

Price Subject to Change? (2, Interesting)

RedHat Rocky (94208) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251499)

Retailer has new product and it's not priced dirt bottom. That's news?

It would be silly to introduce a new version of a product and sell it for less than an existing product.

If it were me, I'd start with the price up a little bit for two reasons. 1, less complaining when the price goes down versus up (yes, someone will complain on a price drop!). 2, with a higher price I have a cushion in case these things start selling like hotcakes and the volume murders my margin as I burn resources to keep up.

SOP, nothing to see here.

Re:Price Subject to Change? (5, Informative)

StringBlade (557322) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251707)

According TFA, the prices are still cheaper (except the XPS) for the Ubuntu systems as long as you compare it to an Windows Vista Home Premium configuration (vs. the Home Basic).

It breaks down like this:

Linux preinstalled
E520 - $599
E1505n (notebook) - $599
XPS 410n - $899

Windows Vista Home Premium preinstalled
E520 - $679 ($369 for Home Basic)
E1505n (notebook) - $699 (for Home Basic)
XPS 410n - $899
The E520 and the E1505n are both cheaper by $80-$100 compared to the Vista Home Premium Edition (though the Windows notebook is actually cheaper even for Home Basic). That's still a good deal in my view.

Ok, reading these comments I'm confused... (1)

Toreo asesino (951231) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251501)

One minute, Microsoft make most of their money through Windows OEM sales...

Now they're actually paying OEM's to have their software installed?

My personal guess is that Dell know this'll be a specialist product line, and that the extra money they would've spent on buying each copy of Windows is instead going towards Michael Dells' cigar allowance...unless of course it becomes a serious product line (which it might), and then you'll see a proper roll-out.

Dell and Walmart (1)

Mockylock (1087585) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251517)

Pretty funny that this happens at the same time start selling Dell PC's at Wal-Mart. Pretty desperate, I'm guessing.

Riding the wave of all the other sell-outs who disappeared.
Who's up next to bat?

Re:Dell and Walmart (1)

Mockylock (1087585) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251533)

BEFORE anyone thinks that selling Linux is desperate, I didn't mean it in that way. Plus, I know the linux thing has been in progress for a while. The walmart ordeal is desperate.

Then I'd prefer... (1, Insightful)

Capeman (589717) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251625)

to get the PC with Windows, download & burn Ubuntu, ask for the Windows Vista refund, install Ubuntu, and you get a better deal, don't you think?

Any projections of how well these will sell? (1)

raw-sewage (679226) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251643)

Has anyone done any formal projections of how well these are expected to sell?

What/who is the target market? From my (admittedly limited) point of view, there are only two types of users: Linux users and "everyone else". The Linux users, such as myself, already know how to install Linux, so they have no need to buy a machine with it pre-installed. Everyone else doesn't know any better, so they'll just stick with what they know (Windows) or what is most heavily advertised (again, Windows), and/or what is most readily available (not Linux).

I'm not trying to be a nay-sayer or suggesting that this is bad. It's definitely cool to see and a step in the right direction. But I'm just curious about the source of the demand for these machines. My worry is that Dell responded to a bunch of Linux zealots who didn't think the situation through, and thought that Dell offering machines with Linux pre-loaded would be enough to make this year "the year of Linux". But are the people who did all the talking now doing the buying? I hope so. It'd just be sad to see too few of these machines sell because the the whole strategy was only half-baked.

I mean, for our favorite stereotype, Joe Sixpack, if he's even aware of this machine with Ubuntu pre-loaded, why would he want to buy it? It's not any cheaper. We know Joe Sixpack isn't concerned with, or is at least ignorant of, software freedom (free speech). All his friends and family probably use Windows. I haven't bothered to check, but I'm sure Dell isn't heavily marketing the Linux advantages. I guess that leaves word of mouth. Hopefully, Joe Sixpack has a nephew or friend who is a Linux user (but not zealot) and can give him some simple, practical ideas why he wants Ubuntu over Windows.

It will definitely be fun to see where this goes! I'm curious how Microsoft execs feel about this. I wonder if Microsoft and Dell have had any arguments or ill-will about this? There's gotta be some juicy drama in there somewhere!

The Slashdot summary is wrong about the price (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251655)

From TFA:
"The entry level of the Vista Home Basic version of the E1505 notebook is US$699, $100 more than its entry level Ubuntu counterpart."

There is a significant price difference. The Slashdot summary says there is little or no difference but maybe it's comparing apples with oranges. It wasn't clear to me if the two Vista and Ubuntu notebooks had identical hardware.

One of the advantages that Ubuntu might have is the ability to run on machines with less GHz and Megabits. It is quite possible that Vista on an identical machine will be much slower and more annoying than Ubuntu.

Meanwhile, in the UK... (2, Interesting)

Simon Brooke (45012) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251687)

We get a very mixed message. Searching Dell's UK site [dell.co.uk] for 'Ubuntu' brings up this page [dell.com] , but if you go through all the options on the online store, Linux isn't there.

Re:Meanwhile, in the UK... (1)

StringBlade (557322) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251773)

According to the Direct2Dell blog [direct2dell.com] , the Linux ordering portion of the site won't be available until 4pm Central Standard Time (CST) (though I suspect they meant Central Daylight Time since Daylight Saving Time is in effect).

Reinvesting the Extra Profits (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251713)

So Dell should be making about $100 more on the Ubuntu sales than on the Windows sales, on $600 revenue. If they profit 5% on the Windows machines, that's $30, so the $130 Ubuntu profit is 22% profit, or about 4.5x the profit from Ubuntu than from Windows.

Ubuntu support might cost more to start, since the labor pool is smaller and they have to start up the operation. The open source is a mixed bag, because it sees a new release to support every 6 months, not every 5 years for Windows, though unpredictable Windows service packs vs steady apt-get upgrades is a largely unknown economic. Little of Dell's support will be helped by Dell looking at the OS sourcecode, let alone fixing it. And it's hard to tell whether Ubuntu's smaller escalation target than Microsoft's is cheaper for backend support. But this new era should produce direct comparison of substantial support statistics where only the OS differs.

So this new OS line on identical HW is likely to generate substantially more profits and lots of FUD-dispelling support costs data for Dell. So I expect Microsoft has made a deal with Dell to subsidize Windows, and (if history is any guide) plenty of anticompetitive tricks to make Ubuntu look bad compared to Windows.

But the race is on! And that bigger profit margin should encourage Dell to heavily advertise Ubuntu, at least once they've got scaling numbers for their support costs.

I wonder if today will be the Linux equivalent to the day AOL gatewayed all its users to the Internet and Usenet. I hope not - the Internet has sucked since then.

Re:Reinvesting the Extra Profits (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251759)

large profit margins make no difference if you have limited customers.

Proof: Windows is negative value (1)

RichMan (8097) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251799)

Why else would the machines with windows cost less. Linux is free, so windows must add negative value to the machines.

We just need to push this on the press and give it the publicity it deserves.

Now, who's willing to put their money ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19251811)

Now, who is willing to put their money where their mouth is? While its great to see Ubuntu make its way into a 'mainstream' computer store, I'm now wondering how many people who were pushing to see this - are actually going to go out and buy one?

I'm guessing that most of the vocal 'pro put Linux on a Dell!' people, are already tech-savvy enough to have it downloaded/installed on their own.

And truth be told, even though I am a Linux fan and have been runing it on my home computer for over a year now (I ran it for a few years back in Highschool also, then switched to windows, now back to Linux), if I was buying a new PC, I'd be inclined to snag one with Windows Vista installed simply because

a: it comes bundled
b: not any more expensive
c: if I ever have the need for windows, I can have a 'free' legal copy on hand

Where, if I go with Linux - while its great to have, and have it supported, if there ever comes a day where I need Windows (say: a development job and I need to have windows installed for the enviroment) - I now need to go out and shell money for a copy of Windows.

The last two PCs I bought I specificly asked "Please dont install any software on it", and even though they went with that request - I did not get any discount for not taking the bundle as it was included as 'free' anyways at the time.

linux.dell.com isnt new (1)

brunascle (994197) | more than 6 years ago | (#19251829)

linux.dell.com has been there for over a month now (not sure exactly how long). this is the first i've seen it with the Ubuntu logo, though. there's still very little information there. hopefully they'll do something with it in the future.
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