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New Gentoo 2007.0 Release Gets Mixed Review

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the resounding-meh dept.

Software 273

lisah writes "Gentoo's recently released version 2007.0 gets a fair-to-middling review from Linux.com. Installation was a headache from the live CD and DVD versions, but the Gentoo Linux Installer saved the day and gets high marks for being 'far better than it's predecessor.' The user experience is also mixed — on the one hand, the distribution boots quickly, has great hardware support, and new, user-friendly artwork. On the other hand, 'for some strange reason, the installed Gentoo doesn't allow normal users to run any administrative applications.' Overall, it doesn't look like Gentoo offers any compelling reasons to switch to 'Secret Sauce' if they're happy with their current, uh, flavor."

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273 comments

first post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19324005)

first post!!!112

Gentoo-Linux-Zealot Translator-o-matic! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19324041)

It's The Official Gentoo-Linux-Zealot Translator-o-matic!

Gentoo Linux is an interesting new distribution with some great
features.  Unfortunately, it has attracted a large number of clueless
wannabes who absolutely MUST advocate Gentoo at every opportunity.
Let's look at the language of these zealots, and find out what it really
means...

* Gentoo makes me so much more productive.

    Although I can't use the box at the moment because it's
    compiling something, as it will be for the next five days, it
    gives me more time to check out the latest USE flags and
    potentially unstable optimisation settings.

* Gentoo is more in the spirit of open source!

    Apart from Hello World in Pascal at school, I've never written a
    single program in my life or contributed to an open source
    project, yet staring at endless streams of GCC output whizzing
    by somehow helps me contribute to international freedom.

* I use Gentoo because it's more like the BSDs.

    Last month I tried to install FreeBSD on a well-supported
    machine, but the text-based installer scared me off. I've never
    used a BSD, but the guys on Slashdot say that it's l33t though,
    so surely I must be for using Gentoo.

* Heh, my system is soooo much faster after installing Gentoo.

    I've spent hours recompiling Fetchmail, X-Chat, gEdit and
    thousands of other programs which spend 99% of their time
    waiting for user input. Even though only the kernel and glibc
    make a significant difference with optimisations, and RPMs and
    .debs can be rebuilt with a handful of commands, my box MUST be
    faster. It's nothing to do with the fact that I've disabled all
    startup services and I'm running BlackBox instead of GNOME or
    KDE."

* ...my Gentoo Linux workstation...

    ...my overclocked AMD eMachines box from PC World, and apart
    from the third-grade made-to-break components and dodgy
    fan...

* You Red Hat guys must get sick of dependency hell...

    I'm too stupid to understand that circular dependencies can be
    resolved by specifying BOTH .rpms together on the command line,
    and that problems hardly ever occur if one uses proper Red Hat
    packages instead of mixing SuSE, Mandrake and Joe's Linux
    packages together (which the system wasn't designed for).

* All the other distros are soooo out of date.

    Constantly upgrading to the latest bleeding-edge untested
    software makes me more productive. Never mind the extensive
    testing and patching that Debian and Red Hat perform on their
    packages; I've just emerged the latest GNOME beta snapshot and
    compiled with -09 -fomit-instructions, and it only crashes once
    every few hours.

* Let's face it, Gentoo is the future.

    OK, so no serious business is going to even consider Gentoo in
    the near future, and even with proper support and QA in place,
    it'll still eat up far too much of a company's valuable time.
    But this guy I met on #animepr0n is now using it, so it must be
    growing!

Re:Gentoo-Linux-Zealot Translator-o-matic! (3, Funny)

syylk (538519) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324281)

Ehehe...

Even if I *am* a Gentoo zealot myself, couldn't help but laugh reading your "translation" message. It's so damn true! :)

OTOH, you typed a 3K chars message as first post. Why I have the distinct feeling you already had it ready somewhere, to copy and paste it at the first chance, when anything gentooish reached front page?

Ah, I counted the chars with my ultra-optimized, distcc-recompiled "wc"! Zowie, I'm 1337! :D

Re:Gentoo-Linux-Zealot Translator-o-matic! (1, Offtopic)

smitty_one_each (243267) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324591)

How can this thing be true, with no mention of Paludis?

Re:Gentoo-Linux-Zealot Translator-o-matic! (4, Insightful)

jimstapleton (999106) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324747)

what part is true?

* The inability to use the box while compiling (not true - I do stuff when compiling all the time, not what is being compiled mind you).

* Slashdot saying BSDs are 1337? Funny, posts saying that they like BSD tend to get modded "Troll"

* That circular dependancies are the only thing to cause Dep-hell? I've had plenty of cases where I have had "Package A" and "Package B", where both required "Package C" of differing versions, where neither would accept the same version of C, and the two versions of C didn't want to coexist. Maybe more helical than circular...

Sorry, while some of it is true in some cases, I find the lot of it quite not funny.
And no, I don't use Gentoo. While emerge has treated me better than some of the alternatives in the Linux world, it's not quite as hassle-free as I'd like.

Re:Gentoo-Linux-Zealot Translator-o-matic! (4, Funny)

HAKdragon (193605) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325257)

This reminds me of one of David Cross'es stand ups routines.

David: I don't mean to sound like a suck up, but I think women are much smarter than men. I also think that dogs are smarter than women
Woman in audience:I don't believe that
David:You don't think that it's true? You don't think I've done research? Well, you're right. It's not true. That's what's known as a joke. I'll be telling a few of them here tonight.

Re:Gentoo-Linux-Zealot Translator-o-matic! (0, Troll)

numbski (515011) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325279)

But....all of my boxes *ARE* BSD. FreeBSD servers, except for one OSX Server, and FreeBSD/MacOSX workstations.

I like it. Many won't. :P

Re:Gentoo-Linux-Zealot Translator-o-matic! (2, Informative)

vdboor (827057) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324687)

So true. Having used Gentoo for 2 years my box was actually slower. It had to compile security updates + all unrelated upgraded every week. emerge has no (official) way to install security updates only. And once you have ldap + mysql installed, all ./configure scripts start to pick those libraries up too, making the whole system link to each other.

Tell me what objdump -x `which $kdeapp` | grep NEEDED returns at your system. It should only return direct deps, not the whole list. And remember RPM-based distro's also compile with "-O2 -mcpu=i686" ;-)

I'm also getting really tired of bug reports from Gentoo users. They report my app is broken, when it appears they managed to compile KDElibs without SSL, or use a bleeding edge build system which is not supported by stable KDE releases. I don't mind different Linux configurations, but these extremes are just wasting precious time.

Re:Gentoo-Linux-Zealot Translator-o-matic! (2, Informative)

Ogi_UnixNut (916982) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324901)

* ...my Gentoo Linux workstation... ...my overclocked AMD eMachines box from PC World, and apart from the third-grade made-to-break components and dodgy fan...

Hehehehe, not sure about the others. But that one pretty much described my Gentoo workstation. I have no idea where it came from (I found the PC in a dump), but the mobo is an AMD machine from some time in the 99's/ early 2000's. And yes, it is overclocked (to a whopping 1.2GHz, almost twice its original speed) and a dodgy fan.

But thinking about it. One of the main reasons I made use of Gentoo is in its flexibility. Originally I found it was far easier to do custom compiles and installs on a machine which had all the sources already installed for me (Rather than Debian's apt-get install $foo-dev package idea, which I hated). Also as a beginner I learned a lot from the gentoo install process. Primarily how everything worked together. Things like kernel compiling, runlevels and inittab I learned from gentoo.

Other things I would do is mix and match parts of different systems. For example with GUI's. I would just compile subsets of what packages I needed for make up some custom xfce/e16/wmaker mashup which suited my needs/wants. I don't know of many distro's where you can rip out GlibC and replace it with uclibC and all packages with only the minimal stuff built, while keeping all your tools and installable packages the same (there are many embedded distros out there, but not many that you can make use of as a general purpose distro with all the same packages as the "heavier" distro), or replacing the linux kernel with another one (like FreeBSD).

Also I do tend to notice the speedups from running gentoo highly optimised. But that is probably because my machine is underpowered. If I had a nice, modern dual core machine, the little speed optimisations would probably not be worth the hassle of compiling from scratch. Indeed I would probably not make use of gentoo when I get a new machine (this one is really beginning to show its age).

Unfortunately I have also found that gentoo has been going downhill in the last year or so. Once when I ran it "stable" I would never have a problem compiling packages. But nowadays I keep coming across broken packages, failed compiles and general problems which require headbanging and workarounds. This is what I would expect if I was running the "~x86" or other unstable options, and was not the case when I first started using gentoo (2003). One of the reasons I switched was the relative painlessness of installation and maintenance thanks to portage (which IMO was one of the best package management systems out there) but lately that has not been the case.

I still like gentoo. Where is currently shines for me in for embedded development. It has made developing an embedded environment so much easier, but alas as a main OS nowadays, I feel I am spending more time trying to get it working then I spend using it. When I get my new machine chances are it will not be running Gentoo (But as I do like portage, I may well end up running some sort of gentoo/ubuntu hybrid. With aptitude for those general binary packages and portage for those "must run as fast as possible" performance apps).

And one more thing... (5, Insightful)

Ogi_UnixNut (916982) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324983)

It does have some of the best documentation I have come across. In the form of the gentoo-wiki site. I always find what I need in that site, even when fixing problems with other distros. That site deserved a mention for being so damn good, but I forgot to place it in my original post.

Re:Gentoo-Linux-Zealot Translator-o-matic! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19325095)

Wannabes? Wow, attacking Gentoo for attracting new Linux users? It's BS like this from the Linux community that will ensure that Linux will never be ready for the Desktop. The open Source community is hostile to newbies.

Re:Gentoo-Linux-Zealot Translator-o-matic! (5, Informative)

garlicbready (846542) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325347)

Like with everything else it has it's advantages and it's disadvantages
it all depends on what you want to use it for
(it's a bit like hitting a screw with a hammer and saying, hmmm this isn't going into the wall very well)

if you want something that's going to work first time, and that your not going to have to arse about setting up
(e.g. a commercial environment) then go with a rpm solution like redhat or suse (this way you've always got the option of support as well at the same time)

If you want something for running the latest cutting edge software and damned the consequences
the sort of person that would make the attempt at building his own conservatory on the side of his house go for Gentoo

Disadvantages
1. it's source based
which can mean less stable / well tested
ultimately gentoo is a source based dist, which means any binary files you end up with won't have been tested
and there's no guarantee of behavior as it all depends on how things have been linked

2. rpm's do some amount of checking when installing the binary, with gentoo it's assumed that whatever has been compiled is correct
(unless make install throws up an error during the build process or you write some checking into the script it's not always possible to guarantee that everything is installed the way it's supposed to be
admitily problems are rare but do crop up now and again

3. it takes ages to compile / install etc
the trade-off here is having access to the latest stuff, so I'm happy with this one

Advantages
1. if you want to get something working that's only just been released
      it takes me 5 mins to write an ebuild script
      it takes much longer to write an rpm spec file
      (this especially comes in handy when your trying to add / remove patches / custom graft as part of the script)
      the reason for this is a lot of the common stuff has been functionalised (is that a word?) into eclass files
      this makes the whole thing default to a certain common behavior unless overridden in the script

      also you don't have to list all the files that should be installed as it works it out for itself all auto-magically
      in an ideal scenario for rpm you'd at least have both options depending on the use of the system (do some checking, don't do some checking)
      ideally I'd really like rpm to take on some of the same advantages as this one (why not?, it might need testing / change of spec files but it'd be well worth it)

2. a lot of the scripts that form the bootup are much more up-to-date
      again most of the stuff in the /etc/init.d scripts has been placed into common functions referenced elsewhere
      it's part of the whole "if it's not broke don't fix it" thing, which in principle gives advantages to commonality if everyone is using the same sort of
      startup scripts if your writing a RPM for several dists and may be more stable / tested
      but the gentoo method is much simpler to write for / more automated

3. it's sourced based
      which means it'll run on pretty much anything, any weird ass bit of hardware you can throw at it (usually)
      (PS3 hint hint)

Personally I'm confident I can fix most things when they go wrong in the portage tree, via an overlay (or at least have the patience to wait for it to be fixed). but for the average Joe user in an office that couldn't give a monkey's for that sort of thing something binary / rpm is better suited

There's probably lots of stuff I've missed here but the general idea is
if you like home brew go to Gentoo (mmm tasty brew)
If you like it plain and flat go for Red Hat

This wouldn't have anything to do... (1)

iamacat (583406) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324053)

With the founder leaving for Microsoft, would it? Too bad, there is a need for ability to configure a modern Linux system from scratch, with any number of options (X11? no X11? and so on). If nothing else, this helps makers of distributions for specialized devices.

Re:This wouldn't have anything to do... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19324269)

If you have that need, check out FreeBSD or netbsd or something. Easy enough to install and can prompt you to install/configure every signle OS feature and app, if you like.

Re:This wouldn't have anything to do... (2, Informative)

bssteph (967858) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324315)

The "from scratch" (or, actually, from scratch discounting the bare essentials) method still exists in Gentoo. It's just old news, I guess the review...-like... thing wanted to focus on the installer because it's improved, I guess (I haven't had to use 2007.0 media yet).

And the founder (drobbins) has already come back from Microsoft and left again because he no longer fit in.

Yes, but... (5, Funny)

Yetihehe (971185) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324055)

Yes, but would it run an Indy car?

Re:Yes, but... (1)

nametaken (610866) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324197)

That joke is so last weekend. :)

Re:Yes, but... (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324221)

Into a wall? Zero problem at all.

And faster than any other distribution!

Re:Yes, but... (1)

Richard McBeef (1092673) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324635)

Yes, but would it run an Indy car?

No, but it could run a lowered honda civic with a spoiler, a huge muffler and spinning rims.

Re:Yes, but... (1)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324663)

Yes, but would it run an Indy car?

Only for a few laps.

And what did you think was going to happen.... (4, Insightful)

Lord_Slepnir (585350) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324057)

Installation was a headache from the live CD and DVD versions....

Ease of installation is not one of the drawing points of Gentoo. In fact, for some of us, an arcane installation procedure is the main draw...nothing teaches you more about linux than having to choose, configure, and compile every single piece of the OS.

Re:And what did you think was going to happen.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19324143)

For even more l33t cred, do it in a language you do not speak.

Re:And what did you think was going to happen.... (2, Informative)

blhack (921171) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324893)

EXACTLY!

Just the other day, one of my very close friends (who works in a high performance computing lab at a major university), called to ask me "how to get data onto a disk after you format it".....basically she was asking how you actually get files from one place to another after a format. A VERY VERY basic basic operation, one that would seem very obvious to most every linux user. However, she runs Ubuntu on her desktop, and has therefore NEVER EVER had to touch anything related to the operating system (and no this isn't flame bait, i ran Ubuntu on my laptop for over a year). She also wanted to know what exactly a file system was. Something that is explained at length in the Gentoo guide. There has been numerous other questions very similar to this one, ALL of which could have been almost immediately answered by just reading through the Gentoo install guide.

IMHO, installing from CLI should be a right of passage for any linux nub.

Re:And what did you think was going to happen.... (4, Insightful)

JerkBoB (7130) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325109)

Just the other day, one of my very close friends (who works in a high performance computing lab at a major university) ...

And what does this friend do for the lab? Scan student ID badges and watch for horseplay? If you had said that this friend was a sysadmin, or even a programmer, your argument might carry more weight.

Having spent most of a decade as a sysadmin, and several more years doing software, I /could/ run something 1337 like gentoo or slack. But these days I just want to use the computer, not screw around. So I use Ubuntu. Saying that Ubuntu is responsible for your friend's ignorance is just silly. Your friend is responsible for her ignorance.

Being the good, close friend that you are, you might want to introduce this person to Google, on teh internets. It's a good way to learn about things like filesystems. Also goat pr0n.

Re:And what did you think was going to happen.... (1)

jokerr (618070) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324951)

True you learn more about Linux and the inner workings of Gentoo when you install it manually but that's not the point. If I have a LiveCD Installer to use, it damn well better work. That's the point of a LiveCD installer. Sadly, IMHO it wasn't ready for release. I had a nightmare trying to install Gentoo 2007 using the AMD64 LiveCD installer. It got so bad that I just gave up and did the manual install. Constant freezes/hangs with no apparent reason or logs/errors to help debug the situation. Wasn't fun to say the least.

2007.0 ? (5, Funny)

MarkByers (770551) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324081)

2007.0 already? And I only just finished compiling 2006.0!

Re:2007.0 ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19325427)

Judging by the witty remark I'm sure you made a typo, don't you mean 2005.0, when those were still funny?

Gentoo still for do-it-yourself'ers (5, Insightful)

neersign (956437) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324095)

while I appreciate a good gui install, and the previous 2006.1 gentoo gui install was QAB, I'd have to agree with the review that any step forward is a good step. Also agreeing with the article, the CLI install is still the way to go and even if the gui install worked flawlessly I think I'd still choose the CLI install method over it. Once everything is installed, the review finds several things they say "don't work", but that is just the nature of the "do it yourself"/"linux my way" mentality of Gentoo. Has this realease turned Gentoo in to Ubuntu? No, and thankfully it hasn't. I believe Arch might be more up your alley if that is what you are looking for.

Re:Gentoo still for do-it-yourself'ers (4, Interesting)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324305)

Personally I've always seen the strength of Gentoo in that it teaches you how an OS really works for the most part. You're doing every step along the way assuming a Stage 1 install which is the only Gentoo installs I'll perform. You are building your system from the ground up and with that you learn a lot about the underlying systems that you just won't learn from installing and using Ubuntu.

Of course the speed and optimizations are nice as well, with a Gentoo install the only things running on the systems are applications that you explicitly command it to run. It's a pain and I wouldn't really use it for a general purpose workstation but for some servers its simply great. Of course with Gentoo you have to always wait a bit after every release since every new release has big bugs. That's what testing servers are for though.

In short, I agree with you. There is definitely a place for both.

Re:Gentoo still for do-it-yourself'ers (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324347)

Watching compiler messages scroll by does not constitute "learning how an OS really works".

I like how I can mix and match features in gentoo with USE flags, and I like being able to easily do source edits before a package install. Virtually everything else said about it is unmitigated hype.

Re:Gentoo still for do-it-yourself'ers (1)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324487)

I wasn't referring to watching compiler messages, I was referring to USE flags, the fact that you actually have to choose which FS you want to use, the fact that you have to add all your hardware and compile a kernel that will actually function for you. This all gives you a much lower level idea of how an OS works and gives you a lot of insight into Linux as a platform. You have to know what processor you have and depending on what release it may impact your choices during your install. The handbook is very thorough and informative while you're installing.

Face it, a lot of the hype behind Gentoo is legitimate, there is always BS surrounding every distro. It is a pain in the ass to get going, but once you're there you are there and will stay there until the machine dies.

Re:Gentoo still for do-it-yourself'ers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19324611)

Speaking as someone who's done it about a hundred times now, I'll choose a distro that doesn't force me to "learn" for the 101st time, but will allow me to "work" instead.

Re:Gentoo still for do-it-yourself'ers (1)

CoonAss56 (927862) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325029)

Then choose dead rat or some other RPM/DEB based Linux instead of wasting everyone's time posting on /. if you are so damn busy working!

Re:Gentoo still for do-it-yourself'ers (1)

Khazunga (176423) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325129)

It is a pain in the ass to get going, but once you're there you are there and will stay there until the machine dies.
Best description of Gentoo, ever. It *is* a pain to install, but my laptop's installation is almost four years old. The laptop will die before the install does.

Update difficulties (1, Flamebait)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324103)

What have they done, if anything, to address update difficulties? Despite claims, you can't start at one version and keep rolling along to the current version by using Portage. Eventually updates become incompatible with your existing setup and Portage sometimes even fails to update itself.

Re:Update difficulties (2, Informative)

gentimjs (930934) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324229)

Luckily the newer (post 2003) versions of portage give you a very clear indication (such as "WARNING! Update your profile, run the following command:") of why exactly any problems have happened. Where you DO run into problems is if, like me, you dont run bleeding edge updates every 20 seconds and let a system "ferment" for about a year then try to install some non-really-simple package, like say qmail. That's the sort of update that gives out headaches if you dont do your homework ahead of time...

Re:Update difficulties (1, Insightful)

neersign (956437) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324259)

I haven't run in to a broken system yet with this issue myself, but I'd assume all you need to do is find the config file that says "Gentoo 2006.1" and change it to "Gentoo 2007.0", then emerge --sync and then emerge -uDN world. Removing blocking packages is the biggest weakness of portage that I see. As I haven't done this yet or even looked in to it, I'm just guessing at the steps, so I'm sure some one else has more/better info on this.

Re:Update difficulties (3, Informative)

Cocoronixx (551128) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324939)

cubby49 sgonzalez # eselect profile set default-linux/x86/2007.0

Re:Update difficulties (1, Troll)

AeroIllini (726211) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325157)

cubby49 sgonzalez # eselect profile set default-linux/x86/2007.0
Or, if you're hardcore as Gentooers like to think they are,

# ln -snf /etc/make.profile /usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2007.0

Re:Update difficulties (1)

Cocoronixx (551128) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325255)

Yeah, I used to do it that way till I found out you could with an eselect. I'm a fan of saving keystrokes.

Re:Update difficulties (1)

neersign (956437) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325507)

mod parent up. that is the command I was looking for.

Re:Update difficulties (1)

darkwhite (139802) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324275)

3 boxes here updated on a rolling basis over the past 4 years with no problems.

There are blocked updates sometimes which require you to unmerge other packages first. This could be handled more gracefully, and some aspects of it are being improved in Paludis, the next generation package manager. But it's very hard to bring Portage into a state where it can't update the system to all latest stable packages, if you know what you're doing (and if you're not... cue the usual excuse, Gentoo is not n00b-friendly).

Re:Update difficulties (3, Interesting)

LearnToSpell (694184) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324291)

You've filed bug reports, right? That definitely sounds unwanted. I'm typing this from the install I did in 2003, and it's up to date.

Re:Update difficulties (4, Informative)

NeoThermic (732100) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324299)

Portage will remind you that it has an update and you should install it after you `emerge --sync`. Updating portage should be the first thing you do before you `emerge -NDu world`

If you're getting to the point that you're getting incompatible updates with your existing setup, then you can always try `emerge -NDuep` and look at the resulting list it'll give you (p is for preview). From that, `emerge -C` anything you don't use any more, and then drop the 'p' from the command above and re-run it. It'll re-compile everything on your system with the latest packages, meaning that you should hopefully avoid the incompatibilities you're referring to.

Then again, if all that looks too much to do, Gentoo might not be for you? ;)

NeoThermic

Re:Update difficulties (1, Funny)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324483)

If you're getting to the point that you're getting incompatible updates with your existing setup, then you can always try `emerge -NDuep` and look at the resulting list it'll give you (p is for preview). From that, `emerge -C` anything you don't use any more, and then drop the 'p' from the command above and re-run it. It'll re-compile everything on your system with the latest packages, meaning that you should hopefully avoid the incompatibilities you're referring to.


Yeah. That's what I did on my Gentoo box back around Gentoo 2003.5. Given that it's still recompiling, I gave up installed Ubuntu on another box some time ago. ;)

Re:Update difficulties (5, Funny)

pturing (162145) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324339)

Gentoo isn't so much a distro as an educational game. If your system works better than an Ubuntu box, you're winning.

There's always a way to fix these problems.

1. Use 'quickpkg' to save important things like Python before you break them
2. Plow over broken dependencies with 'emerge -C'
3. revdep-rebuild when needed
4. If it doesn't work, try the ~x86 package
6. emerge -uDNv world
7. wait a day, emerge --sync, try again
8. update often!! stale systems are harder to update

And the craziest trick of all....
9. backup your /etc and unpack the latest stage3 tarball on top of your installation

One of those things should fix just about any update problem you encounter

Re:Update difficulties (2, Funny)

pturing (162145) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324371)


oh, and
emerge -ev world

That one's lots of fun

Re:Update difficulties (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19324507)

Complete and total BS. You can indeed keep a rolling OS going from incept. I have machines running from the same install in the 4 year range (when I switched to Gentoo).

That's not too say there weren't hiccups along the way but a little research on the Gentoo forums has resolved all of them. I currently admin a bunch of Gentoo servers in a production environment and I wouldn't have it any other way.

In my experience a lot of people that say it is impossible to keep Gentoo running are the types that are install disk happy from their days running Windows.

Why? (5, Insightful)

nametaken (610866) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324125)

I get the scripted installer part for admins, but why would a distro like Gentoo, which has already found its niche, violate that niche by dumping development time into a "newbie" installer? It's not as though I'm really bothered by it, but it seems like they've been content to leave the super-easy install to the Fedora and Ubuntu's of the world... even if it meant lesser uptake on their own distro. Does this new installer still download and compile everything from source? Just seems like it takes the focus off a specialized-install-for-all and puts it squarely on increasing the userbase. Why the change?

Re:Why? (1)

neersign (956437) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324333)

I'd assume the move to a gui install is to make it easier and more up to date. Personally, I'd like to see a FreeBSD/Slackware-esque ncurses install.

Re:Why? (1)

darkwhite (139802) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324445)

why would a distro like Gentoo, which has already found its niche, violate that niche by dumping development time into a "newbie" installer?
Because lots of Gentoo users are beginners who want to learn. Whether you think Gentoo is appropriate for them or not, they will find a good installer useful and will get to the actual using the system part without getting stuck on silly installation mistakes and giving up. Since the installer is optional, there's no harm done.

Gentoo is about bringing both power and ease of use to the user. The installer is about the latter.

Re:Why? (1)

the_greywolf (311406) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324645)

Because lots of Gentoo users are beginners who want to learn. Whether you think Gentoo is appropriate for them or not, they will find a good installer useful and will get to the actual using the system part without getting stuck on silly installation mistakes and giving up. Since the installer is optional, there's no harm done.

While I agree with you in principle, and after running `sed -e s/gentoo/Ubuntu/ig`, I find I couldn't possibly disagree.

But ask yourself this: Does Gentoo really need yet another ricer?

Re:Why? (1)

sportster (711011) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325325)

One of the central themes of Gentoo is choice. Adding a graphical installer gives the user one more choice. They are not trying to turn it into a "newbie" distro, it already is a great disro for those that want to learn about linux -- which is exactly what a newbie needs to do. Gentoo was my first distro and it helped me learn a lot about how the operating system works. You can install distros like Ubuntu or Redhat and never understand even simple things like fstab. When it comes to work I don't have time to wait on everything to compile and use debian, but a lot of my linux knowledge came from being a newbie using gentoo

for some strange reason (4, Informative)

wiredog (43288) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324191)

The reason is "security". Login root or sudo to run admin apps.

Re:for some strange reason (1)

packetmon (977047) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324401)

Oh... I get it so one could never - or should I say no one would ever attempt to escalate privileges. I like their security methods already...

Re:for some strange reason (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324641)

Privileges are MUCH easier escalated if you can run "sudo any-admin-command" without even entering a password.

Re:for some strange reason (1)

packetmon (977047) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324933)

You missed the sarcasm... It was intended to explain that, regardless of the fact that Gentoo removed root logins or so for security purposes, the does not remove the possibility of escalated privileges for someone who shouldn't have them..

Re:for some strange reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19325471)

> regardless of the fact that Gentoo removed root logins or so for security purposes

No, as best I can make out the user was not a member of wheel (or sudoers).

I suppose you knew all that being the great security expert that you are?

Re:for some strange reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19325015)

Hey everyone, it's the evil super H4ck3r packetmon with his mighty botnet army (thanks to ubuntu running grannies).

Look dooood, noone needs to escalate privileges because everyone's going to run your shell script as root - remember?

Re:for some strange reason (1)

pturing (162145) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324419)


No, if the program uses gksu to ask for a root password, then entering the root password should actually make it come up as root.

Re:for some strange reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19324699)

Hey wow, apparently there's some program amongst the thousands in portage called x11-libs/gksu

I don't have it installed and I'm betting few other gentoo users do either. Then again if you're installing Gentoo, you should be capable of fixing permissions on such a program and filing a bug report for the ebuild. I don't see any problem, probably because I'm so used to fixing minor irritations like that. The question is, do these people select the difficult level on games and then complain to the publisher it's too hard? Do they enroll on CS courses to learn how to use a word processor? I mean it's gentoo, where you are expected to get your hands dirty...

If at first you don't succeed...skydiving is probably not the sport for you!

Re:for some strange reason (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324593)

Indeed. Instead of emulating Windows behaviour which some distros do, Gentoo sticks with Unix privileges, where the superuser is responsible for granting privileges on a case-by-case basis, without the installation giving out lots of privileges you don't even know about. This should be commended, not criticised.

If you don't like this, go to Ubuntu instead.

Re:for some strange reason (2, Informative)

swillden (191260) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325093)

Actually, Ubuntu is the same, with two differences: the first-created user is given sudo privs by default, and the root account is initially locked out (no password set). I hardly think that qualifies as "the installation giving out lots of privileges you don't even know about".

/. can't even quote without getting grammar wrong (3, Informative)

ColonelPanic (138077) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324239)

The article gets the usage right: "far better than its predecessor."

But quoted on /., the site that HAS to always get this point wrong, it becomes "far better than it's predecessor."

This is NOT THAT HARD to get right, people. No apostrophe means that it's possessive. With an apostrophe,
it's a contraction of "it is" or "it has".

Re:/. can't even quote without getting grammar wro (1)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324527)

Yeah, possessive "it" is "its" like "yours" and "hers", not "it's" like "John's" or "the table's".

The confusion comes from the use being more like the second case: "Its appearance", like "The table's appearance", not like "Your appearance", which has no "s" in this case.

Re:/. can't even quote without getting grammar wro (1)

jgoemat (565882) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325333)

But 'your' and 'her' are already possessive. You wouldn't say "Yours fly is undone" or "Hers shirt is on backwards."

Re:/. can't even quote without getting grammar wro (1)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325463)

"Her" is both possessive and non-possessive. To get around this there's another possessive version "Hers". "It's her" and "It's hers" have completely different meanings, similar to "It's it" and "It's its". Not sure why we have "your" and "yours" though, I can't think of a sentence where both make sense but with different meanings.

Re:/. can't even quote without getting grammar wro (1)

ari_j (90255) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324763)

I'm more concerned with "predecessor." Is the prior version dead and completely unsupported in any way?

Re:/. can't even quote without getting grammar wro (1)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324887)

The article gets the usage right: "far better than its predecessor."
The misquote is an issue; the usage is no big deal, IMO -- don't quote something unless you actually are quoting it, not paraphrasing.

That said, if you are pedantic enough to get upset about an apostrophe where it does not belong, you should also object to the use of contractions in written material. Contractions should only be written when one is quoting the spoken word.

EX

John did not [1] say, "I don't [2] like to use contractions."
[1] no contraction should be used, this is written word.
[2] Contraction is fine, since dialogue reflects words spoken regardless of grammatical correctness.

Sorry, just felt I needed to one-up the pedantry.

Seriously (1)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325061)

Who cares?

Re:/. can't even quote without getting grammar wro (1)

Hic sunt leones (1048372) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325103)

Thank goodness there is at least one other slashdotter out there who appreciates good grammar! I thought I was alone!

Re:/. can't even quote without getting grammar wro (1)

jgoemat (565882) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325267)

Thank goodness theres two others!

Re:/. can't even quote without getting grammar wro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19325261)

One can think of extremely common errors as distributed English reform in action. "Its" and "it's" are pronounced the same way and so should be spelled the same way. Fuck apostrophes.

Besides, this case is backwards; for everything else apostrophe means possessive. This is why people stumble over it and why its doomed as a meme.

Get lost Ubuntu morons (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19324263)

First you couldn't handle the classic Gentoo installation. Now we throw a GUI on it, you still can't install it? Maybe it's time to just crawl back to your training wheels?

Ubuntu = Swahili for fucktard

who cares about the installer? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19324359)

I use Gentoo on servers because of the flexibility. I can specify exactly what I need. I can generate custom ebuilds easily (they are just shell scripts after all). In fact I can make entire installable custom *distros* for in-house apps and combinations of libraries, etc. I can pin specific packages to specific versions. I can set the build flags for each individual app. I can selectively override the Gentoo-supplied ebuilds with overlays. I can keep track of all my config files and track changes with RCS. I can install multiple versions of PHP, MySQL, Java, whatever, and keep it all straight. This is why I use Gentoo.

I really don't give a shit about a pretty installer. Let Gentoo focus on the power-user niche please, and if you don't like it, use something else.

GUI installer (4, Insightful)

davermont (1001265) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324369)

GUI installation is moot to most Gentoo users. If you want a nice, easy graphical installer and easy system administration go download Ubuntu, it fills that niche very well. However, if you want to toil and trouble to build an optimized system from scratch then Gentoo is still the best solution.

Fix gentoo features yourself (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19324403)

the installed Gentoo doesn't allow normal users to run any administrative applications.
Gentoo is what you make of it. If you don't like some feature, fix it yourself.

A little "hands on" experience with 2006.1 (1, Informative)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324429)

Last year, I thought it's time to get off SuSE. I mean, I never liked Novell and, well, ya know... Got around to build a few systems from the source (LFS is quite cute in that way), so... hell, why not try a "build from scratch" system that doesn't require you to do all the steps in between, and to pick and piece together all the little tidbits from everywhere around the world? And, hey, if it's "from the source", what I know about Linux should be enough to keep it afloat without having to dig too deeply into some kind of bizarre package configurator and selector.

So Gentoo was it.

Downloaded the Installer and off we go. Ok. First problem, no driver for the Areca-RAIDcontroller. Ok. Source is available, as well as modules for pretty much every distribution (well, every but Gentoo), and the controller is available in kernel from 2.6.19 and up.

2006.1 uses 2.6.18 (or something like that). Ok, so much for "bleeding edge"...

Compiled the driver but ... no luck. Won't load.

After some research on some boards I finally found someone kind enough to compile it for this distribution so insmod would actually agree with loading it. Fine. Let's go.

After about an hour of tinkering with USE flags (seriously, I didn't know what half of them are for, and documentation... erhm... ok, let's not mention it) and deciding just what packages I want (it's a server, baby, so give it some!), the install started.

3 hours later, it ended. Ended, not finished. A package can't be downloaded. From no mirror. O...kay? Why?

A few hours and some research later, I learned that the package missing is missing because the version on the installer DVD is outdated. The newer version is, of course, available, though the installer insists in using the old one.

I'm pretty sure this issue could be resolved somehow. But I kinda wanted to use the server before it's turned into a heavy paperweight. I know, I'll be flamed for being a noob and whatever, 'cause I couldn't resolve such a simple issue, and I'm pretty sure the workaround is quite easy if you're a Gentoo-wiz, but those things tend to turn people away from a distribution. The newbies, because they can't figure out how to do something, and the Linux vets because they're used to at least working installations.

Re:A little "hands on" experience with 2006.1 (1)

darkwhite (139802) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324665)

First Google result for "gentoo areca raid": http://gentoo-wiki.com/HARDWARE_Areca [gentoo-wiki.com] explains how to download and load RAID modules for the livecd.

Gentoo releases are released with whatever latest kernel is "stable" on Gentoo at the moment. When 2006.1 was released, 2.6.18 was the stable one.

Finally, the first thing you do after installing stage3 - as the manual clearly states - is `emerge --sync`. That would have prevented the rest of your problems.

I know, I'll be flamed for being a noob and whatever, 'cause I couldn't resolve such a simple issue, and I'm pretty sure the workaround is quite easy if you're a Gentoo-wiz, but those things tend to turn people away from a distribution.
With pleasure. If you can't deal with problems as simple as these, then you probably don't understand the advantages and disadvantages Gentoo gives you, and are better off putting Fedora or Ubuntu on your server. A "Linux vet" would not even notice any of your problems, since the remedies are so basic they'd apply them without thinking.

Re:A little "hands on" experience with 2006.1 (2, Informative)

Laebshade (643478) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324979)

With pleasure. If you can't deal with problems as simple as these, then you probably don't understand the advantages and disadvantages Gentoo gives you, and are better off putting Fedora or Ubuntu on your server. A "Linux vet" would not even notice any of your problems, since the remedies are so basic they'd apply them without thinking.


That's a bit arrogant sounding, don't you think?

Almost 3 years ago, I was pretty much a linux newbie. I had dabbled in SuSE, Redhat, Fedora, and a bunch of other distributions, but never really customized them after installing. Honestly, I had never had a use for a linux machine. Then I came across Gentoo. It had an easy-to-follow handbook (even then), resourceful website and forums, and a great mailing list. I made use of all of these. It took several installs and screw ups, but I finally got it right. At that time, changing from x86 to ~x86, upgrading the system, then changing back to x86, can break the system severely. Even these days, gcc can break when changing from stable to testing then back.

But that's a bit offtopic. The point is, I kept trying, and I got it right.

A "Linux vet" would not even notice any of your problems, since the remedies are so basic they'd apply them without thinking.
Half right. A linux veteran would notice the problem and would know how to fix it. For you and me, knowing what to do and how to do it may be second nature, but to him, it is not. The best thing we veterans can do is point him in the right direction. For Gentoo, that is the website, the forums, and the mailing list.

PEBKAC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19325307)

> That's a bit arrogant sounding, don't you think?

No, you were the arrogant one thinking you could install it without following the docs closely. I've been sole admin in a linux shop for 6 years and even I work through the docs when I'm putting gentoo on a box.

How well do you think you'd do (if you had access to the code trees) compiling yourself a working Windows or OSX from scratch? Gentoo isn't even that complex to install, it just requires you commit the time to configure it exactly as documented. We've all been there and gotten frustrated when we couldn't get _something_ working - that's part of the learning process. You learned - congratulations. I learned with RedHat and Debian, neither of which would install properly on my hardware when I first began toying with linux.

Re:A little "hands on" experience with 2006.1 (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325375)

Ohhhh, I know this page! It even contains the drivers for the 2006.0. Unfortunately, the x86 directory for the 2006.1 is empty. Your turn.

And it did NOT finish a stage3 install, or I wouldn't complain. Again. Your turn.

Re:A little "hands on" experience with 2006.1 (4, Informative)

AeroIllini (726211) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325487)

I hear your frustrations, because I've been there before. I've been running Gentoo exclusively on all of my varied machines for a little over 4 years now, and non-exclusively (dual booting Windows) for almost 6.

But Gentoo is not a distribution. It's really more of a meta-distribution. It can be tailored to just about anything you want, but you need to be willing to take ownership of it and work with it.

If you're looking for your server to Just Work (tm), then by all means, go get SuSe or Mandriva or Ubuntu or Fedora or some other distro with precompiled binaries and a slick installer program. Gentoo's not for everyone. But, if you're looking for fine-grained control over your operating system with some handy scripts to help you out along the way, then you have to be willing to get your hands a little dirty.

I picked up Gentoo as an educational tool; I figured building it from scratch was the best way to learn about Linux, and I was right. Since then, I've stayed with Gentoo because I like the flexibility it gives me, and because at heart I really just enjoy building things. Right now I have Gentoo installed on two servers, a desktop and a laptop at home, and I'm working on building a tiny MythTV frontend that will boot from a USB key (under 100MB). Gentoo's flexible enough to allow me to do that, but then again, I'm willing to sit with it until it's right.

Gentoo never has been and never will be a Just Works (tm) operating system. It's for the hobbyists, the administrators, the students: anyone who wants a much finer grain control over their system. If that's not for you, then no one at Gentoo will hold a grudge.

gentoo (2, Funny)

eneville (745111) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324469)

so ... when is genthree coming out?

Bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19324623)

And yet another round of bullshit bingo... Luckily computers get faster all the time, so I can compile OpenOffice 2.2 in just two (!!!) days.

Gentoo Is a good learning tool (3, Insightful)

blhack (921171) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324643)

I've installed redhad, suse, mandrake, ubuntu, fedora, and i'm sure quite a few other distros along the way. Gentoo has been BY FAR the most educational of them all. While Suse asked me how i wanted to partition my disks, it didn't really explain why.

While staring at a bunch of GCC output is pointless, staring at the ./configure output, and the make install output is actually quite useful. It will show you exactly where the binaries are being put, and if there are in errors it will tell you exactly what they are (giving you the oppurtunity to fix them).

I guess that it is the difference between owning a ford taurus (a very very easy to use, reliable, doesn't break and if it does its easy to fix, if there is a problem it just turns a light on on the dash that says "Problem" car) and owning an old muscle car. With the old muscle car, you're going to spend a LOT of time in the garage, covered in oil and grease, with a wrench in your hand either trying to get the thing to run again, or trying to squeeze just a LITTLE bit more torque out of it. While spending time in the garage playing with an old mustang doesn't make any sense to my dad the automotive investor, its freaking FUN!

I guess in conclusion, if you want something that is totally 100% rock solid, never breaks, you just turn it on and leave it in the rack forever without touching it, or really doing anything past the initial configuration....one of the other distros is probably for you (actually one of the BSDs is probably for you).
But if you want something that you really have to get your hands dirty with, that has all kinds of weird quirks and things that only YOU probably understand.....well then you should probably go with gentoo.

Re:Gentoo Is a good learning tool (1)

neersign (956437) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325435)

everyone touts Gentoo for its ability to teach, and I'll agree that users will get a stronger understanding of what is under the hood than if they use a binary based distribution, but I'd have to say that Slackware is the best learning tool next to straight up Linux From Scratch. All three (Gentoo, Slackware, and LFS) have their strengths and teach users in their own way about different things, but I think that creating my own personal Slackbuild Scripts to create Slackware packages is what makes Slackware the best for learning. My move to Gentoo was for the sole purpose of me not wanting to be my own personal package manager anymore.

Where are the Gentoos of yesteryear? (2, Interesting)

quarrelinastraw (771952) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324655)

I was a gentoo user for 3-4 years and I have to say it was by far my favorite Linux distribution. I'd switch to Ubuntu or Fedora for a couple of days and then just go back because Gentoo offered me so much more flexibility and easier access to packages. Recently, however, I'm switching all of my computers to Kubuntu because Gentoo is just not keeping up with my needs. It breaks my heart but it's true.

The thing that irks me the most is that portage is so horrendously slow. It's beyond painful to use. I switched to paludis and that solved some of the problems, but it's a messy solution for now. Besides, Gentoo no longer has all of the packages I need. I've found myself having to download software from web pages more and more, which was something I wanted to avoid with Gentoo.

Sabayon does a pretty good job of giving me a good setup out of the box, but Gentoo's package management is so messed up now that it's no longer worth that much compiling. Ubuntu used to be noticeably slower for me to use, but either Kubuntu is faster or the gap has been closed and I just prefer the ease of Kubuntu now.

Re:Where are the Gentoos of yesteryear? (1)

Dan Ost (415913) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325321)

Please elaborate: in what way is portage too slow?

Here's my experience:

Once a week or so I fire off 'emerge --sync' in an xterm. A little while later I fire off an 'emerge -uDvat world' and come back to it a little bit later to find it happily waiting for instructions.

At no point am I sitting waiting for it.

Running 'time emerge -uDvpt world' says that it took 61 seconds on my slowest machine (3 seconds on my server) to generate the list of updated packages. I never notice the time because I simply come back to it once it's done.

Then I give it build instructions and, again, it does all it's building in the background while I do something else.

What part is too slow for you?

Reinventing the Wheel (4, Informative)

MostAwesomeDude (980382) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324661)

'for some strange reason, the installed Gentoo doesn't allow normal users to run any administrative applications.'

Gentoo is set up the same way as older Unices for privilege escalation. You cannot su if you are not a member of the wheel group.

Re:Reinventing the Wheel (1)

sedman (210394) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324985)

Actually, that whole new fangled wheel thing did not come about for quite a while (some time in the mid 90s).

I can't really figure out what it is that the reviewer is complaining about here, the article says the su - with a password works. I'm not sure what it is that does not work.

Gentoo is for learning. (1)

Torvaldo (979741) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324691)

As distribution is not very user friendly. For production machines is not the best choice but for learning how GNU/linux works it's great.
When you make a smooth ubuntu/fedora/mandriva install you might not have a problem but when you achieve a gentoo install, you learn. The same goes for daily use.
I stoped using gentoo because the lack of time (for compiling) but since I use ubuntu, I dont learn so much.
At least FreeBSD let choose between binary and building form source.

Re:Gentoo is for learning. (1)

flydpnkrtn (114575) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325037)

Or if you need performance on a server, and have already learned, Gentoo is for production use. I've run it in an OpenVZ VE for over a year now, with no problems to speak of.

I "cut my teeth" on RedHat 5 though...

The new installer (1)

voidy (1003912) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324963)

After hosing my archlinux install last week (fdisk'ing and mkfs'ing the wrong partitions when installing ipodlinux :) ) I thought I'd try go back to Gentoo, which I'd left behind during a period of dial-up internet hell. Archlinux was a lot easier to deal with on dialup. Anyhow, I thought I'd give the installer a go in an effort to get an install up and running quickly. I have to say that, at the moment, I don't recommend it. It caused me numerous headaches, and in the end, I basically didn't get a working install of it, so I decided to just go for the classic stage1. I managed to get this up and running nice and quickly, without referring to the handbook at all. The installer is easy?! I think not. I'm currently sat here with a nicely running box. The funny thing is, I have found out that everyone thinks stage1 is a waste of time nowadays, and rebuilding the system from a stage3 is much easier, but hell, it's all working now. Maybe they should continue working on the installer, but I would advise that people stay away from it unless they are testing it out. I think the Gentoo people should avoid touting it as the latest greatest thing too. If people think that it's the way to go, then I'm confident that they will end up frustrated, and possibly give up entirely on Gentoo, which would be a shame, as it's really quite a good distro.

Gentoo 2007.0 Review from Daniel Robbins (3, Informative)

funtoo (1109261) | more than 7 years ago | (#19324981)

I posted a review of Gentoo 2007.0 on my blog - See: http://www.funtoo.org/drobbins/blog/2007/05/gentoo -linux-20070-review-first.html [funtoo.org]

Oh, and check out http://www.funtoo.org/ [funtoo.org] while you're at it and let me know what you think of the new logo.

-Daniel

Gentoo's great (2, Informative)

timonvo (1063686) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325065)

Gentoo is great.

  • The blazing fast updates (ebuilds are added daily)
  • The total control you have with it
  • The great community

These all make Gentoo my favorite distro.

If you don't want so many updates, sync less. If you don't want to see all the output, use a frontend. If you want to criticize the founder, go ahead, at least we haven't got Microsoft selling our software.

But the fact is: Gentoo installs great if you use the CLI, you haven't got any extra services running at boot, you can fully customize your system. These are the things I'm looking for in a distro.

FYI: I've never compiled for days. Unless you're too stupid to compile openoffice (we've got binaries too, you know)

Hardware support (1)

PenguinX (18932) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325079)

I found that over the past year Intel released some funky motherboards (i.e. the i965) and installing Gentoo on them was not really easy. I rather like 2007.0 if only because the installer has a more recent kernel that has added hardware support.

I'm gonna try it (1)

jgoemat (565882) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325481)

If it runs on my laptop (Dell E1705 with a Raedon X1400), I'll give it a go. I liked Gentoo back in 2004 (?) when I tried the live cd with Unreal Tournament demo installed. That was amazing, all of my hardware from 3d video to sound worked first try, unlike any other Linux distribution I tried...

People don't get it (0)

guruevi (827432) | more than 7 years ago | (#19325513)

Gentoo and distro's like it (LFS) are not meant to be for the average desktop machines. Desktop machines get re-installed and need all types of upgrades every x-amount of days to keep up.

Gentoo is mainly for:
1) Developing and bleeding edge purposes - yes, it's nice to have a package manager that will include the latest of the late KDE and all it's dependencies. No it's not nice that you'll have to wait for tomorrow to get it complete, but it's easier than having to build something and finding all dependencies yourself as you compile.
2) Razor-edge performance on large single-purpose farms. The only way I would like to use Gentoo in production is when I need the optimizations for a certain product (say Apache OR MySQL) deployed on a large number of identical machines, I only need to build it once, then I can deploy (automatically) on the rest of the machines with all the performance I need pressed out, forget about all other USE flags (set everything - (gtk, kde,... and only +mysql).
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