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Mass Deletion Leads To LiveJournal Revolt

samzenpus posted more than 7 years ago | from the we're-not-gonna-take-it dept.

Censorship 436

Green Monkey writes "LiveJournal has been suspending accounts suspected of promoting incest — except that many of them were communities for survivors of abuse and people discussing Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita. Even after being informed of the problem, LiveJournal apparently refuses to reinstate the banned accounts. LiveJournal's official news blog has filled up with hundreds of complaints protesting the decision, so we could have another Digg-style user rebellion brewing." Update: 05/31 11:50 GMT by KD : strredwolf writes to let us know that in their offical blog LiveJournal admits to botching the suspension, saying "We made a mistake and now we are going to try to fix it."

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Keep up the good work (5, Insightful)

Cassius Corodes (1084513) | more than 7 years ago | (#19332907)

Jeez, how hard is it for these companies to just NOT piss off their own customers.

Re:Keep up the good work (4, Funny)

kestasjk (933987) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333263)

I wonder if everyone who posts to livejournal will put incest advice in their posts as a form of rebellion, and I wonder if we'll put incest advice in our posts and signatures to show our support.

-----
0x14CE57

Re:Keep up the good work (5, Funny)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333445)

I doubt it

Re:Keep up the good work (4, Insightful)

KingKaneOfNod (583208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333365)

You've got it wrong; they haven't pissed off their customers, they're probably in fact doing what their customers have asked. You forget that advertisers are their customers. Now they may have pissed off consumers who use their site (and thus generate the traffic they need to attract advertisers), but I'm pretty sure their customers (the advertisers) won't be at all upset about this.

Re:Keep up the good work (5, Insightful)

tirerim (1108567) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333439)

Actually, no. LiveJournal is only minimally supported by advertising, which only comes through users who have agreed to have Google Ads show up on their journals in exchange for extra features. Most of their money comes from users with paid accounts. If those users get pissed off and leave, the site dies.

Re:Keep up the good work (1)

starwed (735423) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333453)

Wait, what? I don't think LJ carries ads, at least, none that I've ever seen. (And no, I don't have adblock or the like running, nor am I a paid member.)

Re:Keep up the good work (1)

jx100 (453615) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333579)

You could choose to have a plus account, which gives (IIRC) most of the benefits of a paid account for free, with the extras being paid for by ad revenue run on your page.

Re:Keep up the good work (4, Funny)

someone1234 (830754) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333377)

It is somehow fishy that there are MANY communities discussing Lolita.

Incest is awesome! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19332919)

My sister is hot!

Yeah, (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19332975)

tight too.

Re:Incest is awesome! (5, Funny)

Mr. Shotgun (832121) | more than 7 years ago | (#19332981)

Yeah, but your mom could use a little work.

Re:Incest is awesome! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333089)

MODERATORS :

The parent is not offtopic, either in the thread nest or even in relation to the news article. Troll, overrated, funny or God help us Informative, yes. Offtopic? No. Incest is very much the topic at hand.

And as I was an only child, I guess to have incest with a sibling, I have to go fuck myself :(

Re:Incest is awesome! (3, Informative)

Workaphobia (931620) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333447)

Sorry, the sibling relation is irreflexive. You could try cloning yourself, but unless it was carried in your mother's womb I don't think the resulting being would be more sibling than offspring.

This is perhaps the most disturbing semi-serious reply I've ever had to make.

Re:Incest is awesome! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333513)

Think she's taking volunteers? I'd love to "work" his mom.

Re:Incest is awesome! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333021)

pics or gtfo

Re:Incest is awesome! (1)

Poorcku (831174) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333409)

Pics, or she doesn't exist!

Re:Incest is awesome! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333483)

Yes but, I taught your girlfriend that thing you like

Novel Idea (1)

eggman9713 (714915) | more than 7 years ago | (#19332931)

If you don't like LiveJournal censoring your stuff, why don't you just startup your own blogger community. There are umpteenmillion of them already, what's one more. There will always be a demand for them as people continue to want attention.

Re:Novel Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333231)

Let us know who has the money to do that and we'd probably do it. Thing is we've been using and supporting (through ad revenue and purchasing Paid Accounts) LiveJournal for years. Why just give up? If something can be done to change their opinion we'd like to try that route first.

Incest? (5, Insightful)

VirusEqualsVeryYes (981719) | more than 7 years ago | (#19332933)

Does anyone else find the Internet a rather unlikely medium for spreading incest? Incest happens within the family, one which probably doesn't think much of the Internet. And if you're convinced to commit incest because of what strangers on the interwebs say, your family's got bigger issues.

Think of the children! To hell with the rest.

Re:Incest? (4, Insightful)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333035)

Like you said... it is the internet. People are much more likely to say to random internet folk "My sister sucks on my cock and I like it", than they are their buddy next door. With that, you are just as likely to have someone who encourages it/discourages it/talks to them about it.

Re:Incest? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333565)

They are their own buddy living next door? They have two houses and/or apartments? What the fuck are you talking about?

Re:Incest? (2, Funny)

laejoh (648921) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333063)

Think of the children! To hell with the rest.

Never ever a sig so appropriate!

Re:Incest? (5, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333277)

Internet is a great place if you're looking to confirm your "normality". Between a few billion people, there's almost always someone that's just as oddball as yourself. So if you start out looking to confirm that lots of people have incestrous fantasies, you'll find it. And while there, you'll find sutble hints that people have real-world experiences. And if you want to believe it, you'll "find" that lots of people do it and so could you.

I think humans aren't wired right for the Internet. If only a few decades ago you knew a few hundred people doing something, it was probably something common and (so mostly) accepted in society. Your odd desires were maybe shared by one or two, tops. Now you got the Internet, and the rules have changed completely but we haven't. On the Internet, you can find confirmation for roughly anything. There's always a social circle somewhere that agree with your practises, if you look hard enough.

For the most part, this is a good thing, the freedom to associate with people that think like you and want to live life like you. But you should be aware what happens when you let your highly distilled social circles decide your social norms as opposed to checking out what your average neighbor and townsfolk are thinking about it.

Re:Incest? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333567)

Dude. Reality check. There are rules for proper raping of your slaves in the bible. God forbid you rape your slaves in a manner Jesus didn't approve of. Deviant is the norm for the lizard brain.

Re:Incest? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333577)

But you should be aware what happens when you let your highly distilled social circles decide your social norms as opposed to checking out what your average neighbor and townsfolk are thinking about it.

Essentially, the internet is changing the scale of perspective, and thus pointing out the relativity of certain norms. (No pun intended.) And in the end, when you look at it these norms from the proper distance, I think we have to come down on the side of, "Who the hell cares?" So yeah, there are a few simple rules that pretty much everyone of sane mind would agree with:

1. Don't sexually abuse children.
2. Don't breed with relatives such that recessive disorders occur.

Beyond that, what does it matter? I personally have no incestual desires whatsoever, but as far as I'm concerned, what consenting adults do should not be anyone else's business, provided it doesn't cause harm to children in either of the above two ways. And it certainly shouldn't be any of LiveJournal's business. A website like LiveJournal is in the business of providing an emotional outlet for people to be honest (sometimes irritatingly open and honest), and that doesn't seem to be in concert with drawing arbitrary lines of prohibiting discussion about abnormal behavior.

Oh well (3, Insightful)

smegged (1067080) | more than 7 years ago | (#19332947)

If you are really that concerned about being able to post whatever you wish, register yourself a domain name (your own name or a variation thereof should be available), learn some basic html (or get someone else to do it for you) and post your journals to your own site. Include a few google ads and use that to pay for any hosting fees.

These sites are allowed to censor whatever they wish whenever they wish because it's their site. If you're upset with the service find somewhere better or stop complaining. It's not like the users are paying for the privilege. If the journals are lost for good then it really is the users fault for not backing up their own stuff.

Re:Oh well (5, Informative)

Aerynvala (1109505) | more than 7 years ago | (#19332999)

It's not like the users are paying for the privilege. Well, actually, some of us are paying for the services.

Re:Oh well (1)

OverlordQ (264228) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333087)

Well, actually, some of us are paying for the services.

Easy solution. Take that money, stop paying, host your own blog. Not worry about somebody deleting your blog (Well not as much). Profit.

Re:Oh well (2, Interesting)

Aerynvala (1109505) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333151)

If it were just a matter of having a blog, then yes. That would be an easy and perfect solution. That's not all that's at stake. LJ's method of networking journals adds another layer to the situation.

Re:Oh well (1)

OverlordQ (264228) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333495)

LJ's method of networking journals adds another layer to the situation.

No it doesn't. It's called an opportunity cost, might take an Econ class some time. You forgo the handy networking cruft, in exchange for no censorship. Or looking at it the other way, you give up the ability to post whatever you want, in exchange for whatever these networking things you're talking about are.

Re:Oh well (1)

Crizp (216129) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333543)

So it's really all just a circle jerk after all -- your own content doesn't matter, as long as everyone can see how many "cool people" you're networked with. Right?

Exactly (3, Insightful)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333159)

Easy solution. Take that money, stop paying, host your own blog. Not worry about somebody deleting your blog (Well not as much). Profit.

Exactly. A cheap hosting account and WordPress. Problem solved. NEXT.

Re:Oh well (1)

tirerim (1108567) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333245)

Sure, that's one solution. But suppose the mayor of your town comes and burns down your house one night. Yes, you could just move to another town, but what about all your friends and connections in your old town? They can move, too, but unless you manage to get them all to move to the same place, you're going to have a harder time staying in touch. LiveJournal provides a mechanism for easy community building (whether through actual LJ communities or simply through interactions via comments on individual journals) that's difficult to achieve with individual blogs, and that many people don't want to deal with setting up for themselves. There is a value to trying to maintain the existing infrastructure.

Re:Oh well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333569)

That's the most nonsensical retort I've ever heard. Arsonist mayors? WTF?

I bet I know somebody who's spending the night listening to emo and writing shitty poetry on his blog about this...

LiveJournal provides a mechanism for easy community building

How useful is "community building" when LiveJournal can arbitrarily decide to delete your account with little or no oversight, without appeal? If "community building" is that important to you, you're better off buying a domain, getting a decent host and creating your own site.

Re:Oh well (3, Insightful)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333005)

You say this because it is about incest... but if it were about collecting magic cards or watching star wars, wouldn't your opinion all of a sudden change?

Re:Oh well (5, Insightful)

smegged (1067080) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333059)

Actually no, it wouldn't change. I do use free journal services occasionally, and I would probably be a little annoyed if my posts got censored, but if they DID get censored, I would simply either move to another service or pay for my own hosting (oh my gosh, using my free will to boycott products I don't like - how horrifying).

If you believe that what you say is that important that it simply has to be on the internet, then you will make it happen.

The owners of livejournal have the right to do whatever they like with their website, provided that it is within the law.

Re:Oh well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333317)

And Livejournal's customers have every right to protest when the services they paid for are taken away.

So if your cable company decides to remove all the chanels they don't particularly care for *after* you paid your bill, you're not going to complain?

Re:Oh well (5, Insightful)

kestasjk (933987) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333359)

Play this down if you want, but this is no small issue.
On the spectrum of free speech from the least protected to the most sacred you have:
  • Yelling FIRE in a crowded theater
  • Ranting about vietnam on street corners
  • Ranting about sin on street corners
  • Criticizing celebrities
  • Criticizing political figures
  • Criticizing the system of government

  • Sure, this is just livejournal. But then Fox will ban it, then the BBC, then they'll ban talk about it in pubs and on street corners, no more right to peaceful assembly or incest rallies, then it'll just be a goddamn Orwellian society where incest is a thought crime.
    When people in power try to enforce their warped view of morality on good, freaky citizens it's time to found a new government.

Re:Oh well (1)

smegged (1067080) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333435)

Even in the US your right to free speech constitutionally only extends to the level that the government is not allowed to interfere. It never states anything about private companies. If you are on someone else's property, they have the right to evict you. If you are using someone else's web site they have the right to cancel your account.

Having said that I will say that the paid users of the site do have a right to complain if they are the ones who are being targeted. Again, if I were banned I would be moving instantly to another service and not returning, particularly if I was a paying customer (after filing a "I was hardly done-by so you can redeem yourselves by giving me free stuff" complaint).

Law != ethics (3, Insightful)

Geof (153857) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333491)

The owners of livejournal have the right to do whatever they like with their website, provided that it is within the law.

So basically you're saying that the law is the law? That's rather unhelpful... Do you really mean to suggest that if something is legal, it is not wrong? Or that even if it is wrong, attempting to change it is a waste of time? (Never mind that the statement collapses the rather important distinction between rights and freedoms.)

I just want to clarify, becuase I often see this legalistic claim on Slashdot. I think it's incredibly harmful, but I'm not certain how many of those who make the argument fully understand what they're saying (I hope not many).

Re:Oh well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333053)

Include a few google ads and use that to pay for any hosting fees.

Unless of course Google finds your content objectionable and refuses to allow you to use their ad service.

Re:Oh well (1, Interesting)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333407)

Serious question. My company has a site which gets a few hundred hits a day. What sort of money would Google Ads bring in? It costs £10 (about 20 US dollars) per month, mostly because I've had it for about 15 years back when that was a good deal.

More to the point it, I host open source utilities that I've written that a few hundred people download a day. Is there some way I could moneterize this? At one point I put a comment about people emailing me if they found it useful. Well I actually got more emails than I could answer. So presumably, I could say "please visit our sponsors" and I'd get a decent click rate.

Mind you, I'm not sure what Google Ads policy on this is. Maybe I should put a Paypal donation on there instead. I only want text ads too, the site has a no graphics retro feel to it.

To be honest my company pays the tenner a month because the site occasionally brings in paid work so it's not really that urgent. Mind you, I like the idea of the site being self supporting, and it seems like it could be done with a bit of thought. And it makes coding and giving away the results seem like a better use of my time.

Has anyone got any experience of this?

Re:Oh well (1)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333525)

Your own name or a variation thereof should be available
You'd think so, wouldn't you? :( Sincerely John Smith

Digg-style rebellion? (5, Funny)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#19332967)

LiveJournal's official news blog has filled up with hundreds of complaints protesting the decision, so we could have another Digg-style user rebellion brewing.

Let's show solidarity with them:

09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

Re:Digg-style rebellion? (5, Funny)

forkazoo (138186) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333287)

LiveJournal's official news blog has filled up with hundreds of complaints protesting the decision, so we could have another Digg-style user rebellion brewing.

Let's show solidarity with them:

09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0


Dude, that's a disgusting way to show solidarity. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0 totally sleeps with 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c1.

Re:Digg-style rebellion? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333291)

Were you trying to say 455FE10422CA29C4933F95052B792AB2 ? [digg] [digg.com]

Actually you know what? Just post both of them... LiveJournal will have plenty of spare space now for both of these special numbers.

"Warriors for Innocence"? (5, Informative)

sehlat (180760) | more than 7 years ago | (#19332985)

Apparently it started with a group of professional trolls who call themselves "Warriors for Innocence" and whose website, I am told, is baited with enough spyware and malware to lay waste to a continent. They complained and LiveJournal caved without so much as a whisper of investigation.

Who are this bunch, exactly? Anything like those "family-friendly" folks who complain en masse to the FCC whenever the word "sex" is so much as whispered on the television or radio?

Re:"Warriors for Innocence"? (1)

Lucan Varo (974578) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333027)

Mod parent up. I was about to ask the same qeustion.

Re:"Warriors for Innocence"? (5, Informative)

seasleepy (651293) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333165)

They're even worse than that -- they seem to be buddy-buddy with a lot of hard right wing Christian dominionist type groups [livejournal.com] . The same community has a bit of peeking through records [livejournal.com] in an attempt to get some info about the site's servers (and thus location), but it looks like all they came up with is that they're hosted through GoDaddy.

Re:"Warriors for Innocence"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333421)

And here are some quotes from that group,

"It's time to value child safety above free speech."

"I recently told LiveJournal: 'I suggest you contact your local law enforcement before they have to go and look for you. It will save them a lot of time and trouble and might possibly make you appear more willing to cooperate with them. Although your negligent responses to this matter prove otherwise.'"

"LiveJournal - Pedophile Sympathizers"

Internet: tool of the pedophile!

Re:"Warriors for Innocence"? (4, Funny)

ozbird (127571) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333443)

... GoDaddy.

OMG - incest!</satire>

Re:"Warriors for Innocence"? (1)

Mr. Shotgun (832121) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333213)

Well, here is their response to the complaints about the live journal mass deletion:

Let the caterwauling and complaining continue; LJ has chosen to enforce rules that WERE ALREADY IN PLACE for all to see. "I finally got held accountable, and it's all your fault" won't fly here.

I am not sure about the whole malware thing, but their website is here. [warriorsforinnocence.org] It is kind of interesting to see the dichotomy of their response to this whole fiasco, on one hand you got the response of "Gunny John" above who seems to be trying to say that anything that did get deleted deserves it, while "Sues" is trying to say that they did not call for the survivor/support pages and lolita discussions to be deleted, that it was Live journals doing. Odd statements from two "people" supposedly united in a cause.

Re:"Warriors for Innocence"? (1)

Frogbert (589961) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333239)

Yes they are exactly like that.

I vote we all go register "Raping WfI members and their children" as an interest on our LJ's :P

Re:"Warriors for Innocence"? (1)

FlyingSquidStudios (1031284) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333461)

Do you think they see the irony in their name?

I don't see why LiveJournal is doing this. (5, Funny)

Virak (897071) | more than 7 years ago | (#19332995)

I mean, with so many people screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" all the time, you'd think they'd be happy to have someone finally actually listening and doing it. But no, they ban them all? None of this makes sense.

Re:I don't see why LiveJournal is doing this. (4, Funny)

Smight (1099639) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333173)

I think they need to be more specific in the future.

"Think of the children... not THAT way!?!"

Re:I don't see why LiveJournal is doing this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333315)

Sex Cauldron! I thought they closed that place down.

No daddy no... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333011)

Oh noes... :'(

I hope they deleted my old account! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333017)

I don't even know my old username (gf blah blah etc...) I never really used it. Suicide Girls provides a better blog than LJ.

User-created sites (3, Insightful)

evanbd (210358) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333047)

When a site derives its content entirely from its users, that site ceases to be entirely under the control of its creators. Somehow it seems to be taking a while for some people to figure this out, but when the users want something badly enough, well... you better give it to them. You know how some people keep saying the internet will empower the people by giving them a voice? Well, it turns out they mean it -- especially when it's in relation to things on the internet.

Re:User-created sites (1)

rayvd (155635) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333225)

True, but somehow I doubt that the vast majority of LJ users want/need to post about incest.

We're talking about a small minority of the LJ community here.

Re:User-created sites (1)

evanbd (210358) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333237)

They may be small, but they would appear to be vocal enough to get themselves posted on Slashdot...

dupe! (0)

coaxial (28297) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333083)

Re:dupe! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333257)

Different incidents (unless you subscribe to some conspiracy theories), though closely spaced in time.

Shopping mall analogy (4, Insightful)

femto (459605) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333085)

MySpace, LiveJournal, ... They are the Internet equivalent of the mega shopping mall. They represent convenience but convenience comes at the price of freedom. Have you ever tried protesting outside a shop in a mall? You can't. The mall is private land and you will get removed by security. Similarly with LiveJournal and the other "communities" based on a centralised website, they are private space and the owner can boot you out on a whim.

Why not stick with the public spaces on the Internet? If you need a chat room: use an email list, Usenet or run an IRC server. If you want to share your photos: put them on your web server. If you want a pretty home page with lots of "friends" put a home page on your web server with a guest book. These are the online equivalent of the local shopping strip. It's a public place and no-one can force you to bend to their whim. The public spaces of the net are better than web2.0. They are just as customisable, do the job as well or better and you don't have to take it on trust that your freedom will be respected.

Re:Shopping mall analogy (2, Insightful)

SolitaryMan (538416) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333347)

MySpace, LiveJournal, ... They are the Internet equivalent of the mega shopping mall.

Nope. They are closer to some kind of Eastern bazaar, where everyone sells and buys. LJ depends on users' postings, or it is better to say LJ is its users. Ban some topics/users and it will be discussed somewhere else. There is nothing unique in LJ

Re:Shopping mall analogy (1)

femto (459605) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333467)

The analogy holds. The "sellers" still need permission from the owner of the "mall" to sell their wares.

You seem to be arguing that the shoppers and shopkeepers control the mall. This would only be true if (almost) every shopper or shopkeeper boycotted the mall. That would never happen as the mall owner is too smart to boot everyone out of the mall, only the minority whose presence is inconvenient. It doesn't matter if the minority who are kicked out happen to be innocent, as they are just a minority and will not affect the owner's control.

Re:Shopping mall analogy (1)

hachete (473378) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333403)

Yeah, that's right. Let's herd these people into a ghetto where they can be easily contained, controlled, and rounded up when the time comes. That's the spirit. We see an example of precisely that, bending the web to meet a pressure group's whims.

Web2.0 makes it easier for people to do these things, so now we're excluding a whole class of people who want to take advantage of web2.0's ease of use? LJ got where it is today precisely because it had a liberal policy. And where do the exclusions stop? Who's to say what the nutjobs will take a dislike to tomorrow?

Re:Shopping mall analogy (1)

the unbeliever (201915) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333549)

Livejournal is no longer the company that it was was.

once danga got bought out by sixapart, things started falling to shit.

This Thread... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333091)

This thread... is USELESS without pics!

As much as I would like to NOT think about this (1)

patio11 (857072) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333097)

>>
Fourteen-year-olds hook up together all the time. It's called high school.
>>

Yes, and when fourty year olds are emotionally invested in watching, reading, or writing about it? That creeps me the heck out. Oh sure, I get it, when you're talking about Harry and Snape taking a disciplinary infraction to a whole new level, thats fantasy. Yes, understood. Its just pretty freaking creepy. Am I that worried that Livejournal doesn't want to be associated with you? No. Many sane people, you know, the kinds who don't have to make up a semi-Japanese word to describe their sexual perversions, do not want to be associated with you. I wouldn't be touching your business with a ten-foot pole... and why does that sound suddenly pornographic in this context.

Re:As much as I would like to NOT think about this (5, Insightful)

15Bit (940730) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333433)

I know many people who would dispute your implied definition of sanity. "Sexual perversion" is all around you, and all over the web too. How many "funny" comments are put up here about porn downloads? Well, there's more than an element of truth in those comments. Look around at your neighbours and friends - more than one of them is a "sexual pervert" and you just don't know it.

As for the 40-somethings who want to read/write about this stuff, well thats fine. Writing about sex with a 14 year old is a long way from actually doing it, and the large number of people who have written and read such fiction indicates that it is far from abnormal for the healthy imagination to wander in this respect. I would say that writing or reading about paedophilia/incest/bestiality etc no more makes you a pervert or a threat to society than playing Quake makes you a murderer.

Its sad but... (2)

stoneycoder (1020591) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333099)

What do you expect? I feel the same way about this as I do about the story earlier today regarding fanfic [slashdot.org] . If you don't want your content being controled, censored, changed, mangled, sold, etc, host it on your own domain on your own dedicated server. You could still get screwed, your hosting provider can sqaush you out if they feel the push. So whats next, you install a lamp stack on some spare box with a sad 30k upload cap; Even so you're not protected because your ISP could get wind of your server from some fanatics claiming its content evil and wrong, and they'll shut your account down for sake of the children.

Now there is a missing option from the most hated cliches poll [slashdot.org] : "think of the children"

Deleting content based on keywords? (2, Insightful)

Talez (468021) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333103)

Nothing could ever go wrong with that strategy.

So, who's the next LiveJournal? (1)

Evil Poot Cat (69870) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333107)

It looks like LJ pacified our taliban. This is the point where you take your posts elsewhere. Standing around and bitching about it indicates that you'd like to remain a member, so it's a matter of pacification to retain your eyes and bytes.

Reminds me of an old saying... (1)

thephotoman (791574) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333111)

Nec eos omnes. Deus suos agnocet.

Seriously, I've been an LJ user since 2003. Never before have I been this pissed at them. Thank goodness I'm getting my own webspace soon. Yeah, I know, with the spare parts I've got lying around the place, I could set up my own Apache server, but I'm too lazy, and my current Internet provider forbids webservers.

WTF? (4, Informative)

interiot (50685) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333119)

From the LJ abuse team [livejournal.com] :

We recognize that many people list these types of interests for shock value, as a method of expressing opposition for these illegal activities, or to indicate fictional activity. Unfortunately, the Abuse team does not have any discretion in these cases; if a journal profile contains interests that support illegal activity, we must suspend the journal. Journals, on the other hand, may express or imply interest in illegal activity or express or imply a desire to meet and/or interact with others with similar interests, but only if the journal clearly (1) is in opposition to or condemnation of the illegal activity, (2) does not encourage the illegal activity and (3) is not used in furtherance of any illegal activity.
So now every time mentions something that might be illegal, they have to pause, look at the camera, put on their most convincing "I'm serious now" face, and say "this is fiction, not real life, we're not encouraging anyone do this in real life, and if you do this illegal act, you'll be in big trouble"? Does LJ really expect people to say things like this with a straight face for very long? I mean, yeah, many actual real-life illegal activities are real downers, but when people have to start saying a blurb after things that are almost certainly legal, but they still have to say the blurb so they don't get caught up in suspensions where LJ has "no discretion", then those blurbs aren't going to be something anyone takes seriously, but instead will be an outlet for users to continually mock LJ's policies.

Incest has been around since the dawn of time (2, Interesting)

ConfusedSelfHating (1000521) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333141)

Everyone has a legitimate concern about parents molesting their children. And it would be great if there was an easy solution. But this appears to be blindly striking out at the problem. This is several steps worse than banning novels which have a fictional murder because some people may be inspired by it. This would be similar to sending people to prison for saying that they're "killing time" because someone has a last name of "Tyme". Blind stupid methods for solving problems never work, they just impair the ability of regular people to live their lives. You know that the pedophiles are just going to adopt codewords and continue their pedophile ways.

I would be much happier if this was a regular pedophile hunt. Of course, malware is going to be downloading horrific stuff to unknowing people, leading to innocent people being dragged off to jail by techno-impaired judges and juries.

discussing incest is illegal? (1, Interesting)

Adult film producer (866485) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333161)

Is it illegal in the u.s. to talk about or to even write stories about incest? I ask because apparently this all started when the "warriors for innocence" [warriorsforinnocence.org] project said they have been reporting live journal blogs to law enforcement. I always figured it was the act, not story writing that was the problem.

Re:discussing incest is illegal? (4, Informative)

Frogbert (589961) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333253)

Just a warning about the above link. The WfI site is loaded with spyware, Firefox only folks.

DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333267)

Warning: the "Warriors for Innocence" site will infect you with malware if you're not careful.

Re:discussing incest is illegal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333327)

s it illegal in the u.s. to talk about or to even write stories about incest?

(No karma for me!)

No, but there's a lot of people that think it should be- along with criticism of the current administration, questioning the Administration's handling of the situation in Iraq, teaching evolution, homosexuality, liberalism, whether Haliburton might not be war-profiteering, disagreeing with Rush Limbaugh...

You know, one of the subsets of humanity: assholes. The above are just the American version, with most nations having their own variety bothering the regular folks.

The good thing is that the most vocal of the lot are in the minority. The problem is that a few of them seem to have snuck into the Attorney General's office while all the reasonable people's back was turned.

USE LINKS OR LYNX FOR THAT LINK (1)

SaidinUnleashed (797936) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333335)

That link will slow down IE, Firefox, or Opera to a crawl for a looooong time while it loads all the spyware crap. Use a text-only browser to read it. It actually has some interesting (though still not capable of justifying this, imo) posts.

Re:discussing incest is illegal? (5, Insightful)

LTB_Enterprises (824336) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333361)

I by no means condone discussion of this topic for titillation but this whole "Warriors for Innocence" thing to me reeks of "Warriors for Ignorance", that special breed of people who pretend that if you don't write about it, talk about it, educate about it then it will just go away. There are so many children out there suffering horrendous abuse because the person abusing them has convinced them that it's wrong to tell, that it's "just our little secret". These kids need to know that it is wrong and they have a right to tell someone and have it stopped. Don't let them suffer in silence....

Incest is relative (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333183)

but only if you keep it in the family.












Yah, i know, it's a bad joke. But this is slashdot, and i'm posting A/C

Re:Incest is relative (1)

doesnothingwell (945891) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333247)

from Milton Bradley the game the whole family can play! To hell with karma.

Proving once again, (1)

MrPerfekt (414248) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333367)

that if you want no censorship on your postings, you need to own the server and even in some cases, the network!

Honestly, I understand why alot of people subscribe to these free blog services but you truly are at their mercy. At any given moment, a) your account could be deleted, b) the hosting service could disappear or c) your account could be hacked through no fault of your own. Hosting your blog on your own servers don't guarantee that those won't happen but at least it puts it in your hands. Until then, you'll always be at somebody else's mercy and you should deal with that.

Spuller (1)

cobbaut (232092) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333371)

I liked the livejournal of user spuller a lot: http://spuller.livejournal.com/ [livejournal.com]
Anyone know where he moved to ?

Warren Ellis said it best (1)

dswensen (252552) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333399)

Warren Ellis said it best on his site (warrenellis.com):

For what it's worth: Warriors For Innocence come off a little weird, to say the least. Mind you, so does Andrew Vachss. But LiveJournal's response bears more study. Their sloppy, blanket response indicates that they simply don't have a process in place to differentiate between nonce-news and people writing about furry widdle brother and sister unicorns who love each other very much. The outcome, therefore, has been pure comedy, with comments that read very much like "I love spending all day reading about forced underage incestuous sex with squirrel fisting on top, but of course I'm not interested in that in real life -- that'd make me a pervert!" LiveJournal is part of Six Apart, which has in times past proved itself to be, shall we say, socially backwards. They're not good at dealing with people. The questions of importance are less about the somewhat gung-ho and poorly informed Warriors For Innocence, and more about the panicked spasm LiveJournal had, that appears to have had very little thought put into it. All that said: if you listed "rape" as an interest on your LiveJournal user profile, you must have known that someday someone was coming to see you about that.
What kills me is that many of these people are acting like they're political refugees or Holocaust survivors. Talk about a lack of perspective. They're also seriously ignorants of what "rights" they have to post on a privately-owned website (hint: none whatsoever).

I'm not saying Six Apart hasn't acted with bad judgment, but some of the outcry smacks of a seriously out-of-control sense of entitlement.

What do your call your act? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333401)

The aristocrats!

Go here to export your Livejournal content (2, Informative)

MrMista_B (891430) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333415)

http://www.livejournal.com/export.bml [livejournal.com]

If their deletion policy is this random, then it'd be a good idea to get out now.

Me, I'm going somewhere else - if this is the way lj acts, they've seriously lost my trust, and therefore my financial support.

Re:Go here to export your Livejournal content (1)

the unbeliever (201915) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333561)

http://www.ljbook.com/ [ljbook.com]

Go there instead. Makes a nice, pdf posting, including userpics and comments. Granted, you do have to give them your login/pw, but I use them every six months and haven't seen anything out of sorts with them yet.

Livejournal is a fool. (5, Interesting)

acherusia (995492) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333427)

I've been watching this since it started, and what continually amazes me is how poorly livejournal is handling this. Over 24 hours into this, there is no announcement. Nothing reassuring users that their journal won't be next. Nothing apologizing for wiping out the incest survivor's livejournal in their witchhunt. Not even something saying "This is business, deal." The only news livejournallers have heard from livejournal came from an outside news source. [com.com]

Forget the deletions. People were upset, but would have forgotten it quickly if livejournal had just said "We purged some pedophile rings, but some other stuff may have gotten caught in it. If there are any livejournals purged that were genuinely innocent, tell us." People would've bitched, would have said the sky was falling down, that Livejournal had gone down the tubes since Six Apart bought them, but there wouldn't have been this sort of mass hysteria.

Now, I'm anticipating the next great fandom migration will be happening a few years sooner than otherwise, and this makes me grumpy, because migrations are a pain in the ass. And it wouldn't be happening any time soon if Livejournal weren't currently doing their level best to make fandom - a group of people who in my experience pay a great deal of money for their playspace - feel unwelcome.

Revolt unlikely (1)

davecl (233127) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333437)

Judging from LJ's response to the Nipplegate [blogspot.com] controversy (a troll started complaining about images of breastfeeding mothers and LJ/6Apart started deleting these accounts on the basis that they were sexually explicit) I think its very unlikely that they'll respond to users' complaints. LJ/6Apart has demonstrated itself incapable of responding to user complaints once a 'policy' has been set in spite of evidence and argument to the contrary. If you want to set up a support group for the victims of rape, incest or other abuse, LJ is not the place any longer because they can't (don't want to?) tell the difference between opposition and advocacy.

What about the rest? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333463)

They should have deleted all the LJ's...

local information center (1)

tirerim (1108567) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333511)

For anyone interested in knowing exactly what's been happening, what's been deleted, and also some useful information for livejournalers about things like how to make backups, one user has been keeping track of the news:

http://catrinella.livejournal.com/151812.html [livejournal.com]

The truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19333527)

Hello, I know that I am posting as an anonymous, but do forgive me, for I am doing this for my own protection.

WFI is not at all what they claim to be, but rather, they are a front.
For what, you may ask?

Well, it's actually, a front for the same organization that runs http://www.teens-4-christ.org/, a small, but extremely fanatical christian group that seeks ultimate control.
This entire operation is also in part funded by pervertedjustice (See: Dateline: to catch a predator) and the church of scientology.

Yes folks, this is bigger than just a bunch of nutcases getting livejournal to delete a few accounts by crazed fans of boy love.

This is bigger.

One day, they came for the livejournal abusers
But I was not a livejournal abuser

One day they came for the pirates
But I was not a pirate

One day they came for slashdot
But I was not a slashdotter

And one day they came for me
And I was all that was left.

war is better than sex (0, Troll)

Karaman (873136) | more than 7 years ago | (#19333537)

People like to kill one another but not fuck with each other!
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