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Syncing Music Players In Linux?

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the keeping-it-consistent dept.

GNOME 278

Daengbo writes "I recently sold my old laptop to a friend, and she asked me to keep Ubuntu on it rather than installing Windows for her. To help her with the transition, I wrote two intro lessons for her, but we've hit a stumbling block. The iRivier Clix (4GB) she's been using syncs with Windows Media Player. My research shows that the model has both an MTP for the sync and a UMS mode which acts as a mass storage device. Rhythmbox's 'Scan Removable Media' doesn't pick up anything from the USB mass storage device, and although Syncropated claims to support these types of devices, it doesn't find any supported devices. Unless you use an iPod, this appears to be a real weak point in the Linux desktop. Do you sync your mass storage devices and music players? What do you use?"

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What do you use? (5, Informative)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337311)

Amarok [kde.org]

Re:What do you use? (2, Informative)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337637)

This is one of the more polished Linux apps I have found in terms of UI and it works quite well but the resource requirements are brutal. It eats memory, is painfully slow to startup and regularly spikes the processor at 100% even when it's doing nothing.

Re:What do you use? (2, Interesting)

beckerist (985855) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337745)

True that. I had a computer with P4 1.7gHz, 768 megs of RAM and kubuntu 6.06. Amarok WAS one of the cleaner programs I'd used on that PC, though I had to regularly close it. If I left it open (like I do with Winamp now) it would use all my computer's resources within a week, causing me to restart more often than I'd wanted to!

I think the problem lay in the fact that I would just "pause" my music as I'm leaving (and not fully stop it)...it would sit in memory while I was gone...not sure why there was a leak but yeah, very resource intensive but a very good looking program!

Oh, and my Sansa m250 worked just fine with it!

Re:What do you use? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338095)

If I left it open (like I do with Winamp now) it would use all my computer's resources within a week, causing me to restart more often than I'd wanted to!

Why should you restart your computer to clear the resources -- this is Linux we're talking about, not Windows.

Re:What do you use? (2, Interesting)

Swizec (978239) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338471)

I keep amarok running all the time on my 1.8GHz AMD with a gig of RAM and there are never any problems with it. The CPU usage is decently low, usually at around 2% and RAM is usually used up to about 150MB when I'm not doing anything. That may be a bit high but my amarok playlist is quite large and there are usually around 100 processess running even when I'm not doing anything.

Bottom line is, amarok beats everything in usability. As for syncing, I just use all my players as a mass storage device and do away with any weird problems.

Re:What do you use? (1)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338439)

It eats memory, is painfully slow to startup and regularly spikes the processor at 100% even when it's doing nothing.
I think it's actually browsing your collection to make sure it has it all indexed, wven when it appears to be doing nothing.

Re:What do you use? (2, Informative)

Stocktonian (844758) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337919)

Yep, just use Amarok.

That's why we sell our linux laptops with Kubuntu. The Gnome defaults just don't measure up.

---
http://www.linuxlaptops.eu/ [linuxlaptops.eu] Guaranteed Linux comapatbility

Re:What do you use? (3, Interesting)

BecomingLumberg (949374) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338033)

Listen is a good Amarok clone that is GTK (and a believe less of a resource hog). http://www.listen-project.org/ [listen-project.org]

Re:What do you use? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338035)

Amarok is a perfect example of why so many people want to try Linux, try Linux, and flee back to Windows or Macs.

The guy doing the main dev for it is a prick when dealing with users.
It has the usual open source "more features is better than a smaller but useful and coherent set of rock solid ones"
The UI is clunky.
The UI is ugly.

The lack of anything remotely close to the seamless and elegant package of iPod/iTunes has kept me away from being able to switch to Linux for good finally.

And if you feel like firing back with the usual Linux fanboy "I think Amarok is better..." BS don't bother. You are wrong.

Re:What do you use? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338365)

I dont understand your problem with Amarok. I love it, the UI is nice and smooth, its got tons of nice, subtle features, and best of all, it organizes my entire music library and fetches all my album art for me. its amazing. So maybe the dev guy is a dick, thats better than a closed source app. the only beef I have with it is its occasional memory leaks. That, and i wish it was Gnome as opposed to KDE. It also can sync with many, many devices and supports irivers iFP and MTP devices quite well. I would recommend it for her, even if she is in Gnome.

Re:What do you use? (1)

jimstapleton (999106) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338389)

I'll agree with the UI point, I tried it and went back to XMMS. Small, simple, too the point. The main and equilizer interface buttons look like what you'd find on a sterio, making it rather intuitive. The buttons on the playlist have text, making them fairly obvious also. Right click for more options, as most guis do. All of this functionality, without taking up much realestate.

but, I don't know if it has a sync plugin.

Re:What do you use? (2, Insightful)

ak3ldama (554026) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338463)

And if you feel like firing back with the usual Linux fanboy "I think Amarok is better..." BS don't bother. You are wrong.
Actually, mr anonymous, you are wrong. Amarok is clearly not going for your average section of the user base.
It has the usual open source "more features is better than a smaller but useful and coherent set of rock solid ones"
It's a very elegant program with many features, and is not meant to just be iTunes. If you think iTunes is all anyone needs your are as blinded as any of the Linux fanboys. (Disclaimer: I have used iTunes and Amarok and I personally don't use either.)

Amarok + iRiver T30 (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338315)

I use an iRiver T30 with the standard MTP firmware, and Amarok works quite well with it.

In fact, it works a bit better with Amarok than with WMP11, since WMP11 will occasionally decide that it is a new device and demand that I set up syncing again. And of course Amarok has additional benefits, such as podcatching and better library management. As far as I'm concerned, the only drawback is that you can't do an Audible.com device activation with Amarok.

Re:What do you use? (1)

Elsan (914644) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338475)

amaroK is the answer for all your music woes. Hell, I'm nearly wondering why the parent is not the only comment on this page.

Re:What do you use? (1)

zip_000 (951794) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338507)

I use gtkpod for my ipods - I tried a variety of other options, but gtkpod works the best for me.

Please -- Mount Man (2, Insightful)

fishdan (569872) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337313)

So the obvious thing is you can tell her she's going have to do 'man mount' to find out how to get her music synced. No -- really!

That joke never gets old...

Seriously though -- in UMS mode you should be able to mount it as a drive. You'll abviously have to make a script for her, but that's easy enough.

I love that I know how hot this girl is based on the detail in your help pages for her....

Re:Please -- Mount Man (4, Informative)

grev (974855) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337413)

Mounting won't do it for a lot of players. I have a Samsung YH-925 and although it functions as a UMS, when files are copied to the player they are not indexed, meaning you can't play any music without syncing it through a program like Windows Media Player.

Re:Please -- Mount Man (1)

Jaseoldboss (650728) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338101)

I've had two Archos Gmini players and with both, your music is stored in a directory called 'music' on the HDD which is accessible via UMS. There's no reason to do anything else really.

The Gmini 440 even supports WMA-DRM apparently so it appears they can share the same space with user files.

Re:Please -- Mount Man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338135)

there is an obvious mount joke in their somewhere - i just can't put my finger on it.

Re:Please -- Mount Man (2, Informative)

bzipitidoo (647217) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338429)

I also have a Samsung. It's a Samsung Yepp (YP-U2J I think-- I know the 'U' is in there and think 'U' stands for US). I got it because that was the only one I could find locally that can do Ogg Vorbis. And that only after flashing the player with a European ROM. (Details on how to flash the Yepp are here [xiph.org] .) The flash was also necessary to get it to behave like a USB memory stick. Without that ROM update, I could not move files (Ogg Vorbis or MP3 or whatever) on and off it just like it was a plain old flash drive.

The problem is the politics in the music player, not the music player per se, and not Linux. Most of them won't play nice with USB. They're programmed to support only this Windows protocol, MTP. Don't know enough about MTP itself to know for sure if it's good, or free, but MTP comes from MS and supports DRM, and that's enough for me. Also, I read a rumor at the link I gave above that MS has done much to make Ogg Vorbis unavailable in the US.

Re:Please -- Mount Man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19337477)

I love that I know how hot this girl is based on the detail in your help pages for her....

Sounds like you have written your own help pages for hot girls....

Re:Please -- Mount Man (1)

RoboJ1M (992925) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338319)

FitFiles.com

Help pages for hot girls.

cantthinkofanything.com

Hot girls with linux laptops.

J1M.

(PS, sorry, I don't actually have an answer for the poster though. She should probably use Amarok though. As a windows user she will be used to slow, bloated and obtuse software.)

(PPS, to the guy moaning about iTunes/Amarok, have you noticed just how polluted the iTunes interface is now it's moved to Windows? My ex-girlfriend and noted technophobe was able to use MacOS X from the get go with no instruction including iTunes but was no longer able to do so with Windows iTunes!)

(PPPS, Hey, there's more content in my Ss than in my post)

Re:Please -- Mount Man (5, Funny)

wiggles (30088) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337591)

My thoughts exactly.

It's obvious that this girl is interested -- otherwise, why else would she switch to Ubuntu?

Advice to the geek who posted this: This is not about the OS or her mp3 player or whatever. This is about her wanting to get with you. That's why she kept Ubuntu, because she wants to show you she's open to the things you like. She could give a rat's ass what OS she uses otherwise.

Go get some.

Re:Please -- Mount Man (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19337785)

That's why she kept Ubuntu, because she wants to show you she's open to the things you like.
Yeah, he should tell her that if she likes Ubuntu, she should really try Upurbut.

Re:Please -- Mount Man (0, Flamebait)

michrech (468134) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337853)

Reading through his blogs, he either doesn't have good proofreading skills, or the blogs were made in a hurry. Lots of spelling errors (that *would* have been caught by a spell checker), several sentences that look like the thought train derailed, etc.

If he's a TRUE geek, he'll probably ignore that she's most likely interested in him (or be too shy to ask her, or further still, be gay and not care).

Re:Please -- Mount Man (5, Funny)

sYkSh0n3 (722238) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338021)

Advice to the geek who posted this: This is not about the OS or her mp3 player or whatever. This is about her wanting to get with you. That's why she kept Ubuntu, because she wants to show you she's open to the things you like. She could give a rat's ass what OS she uses otherwise.

Slashdot: Relationship advice from my mother's basement, next caller please.

Re:Please -- Mount Man (2, Funny)

mcpkaaos (449561) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338069)

The only thing scarier than getting dating advice on Slashdot is that it's actually good advice.

Listen to Wiggles. Go get some.

Re:Please -- Mount Man (1)

Assassin_for_Atari (691252) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338207)

No kidding! And in the off shoot she is just intersted in linux, you need to be presuing that cause a woman that WANTS to learn linux is like finding s pre-cut flawless gem in chocolate pudding, AKA damn near impossible

I agree "GO GET SOME"

Now, for the player, amarok is a great application and supports tons of players. If its UMD, then like others said you might be able to script something up in essense, if your using ubuntu, it should be plug in play and there ya go. Unless its one of those whacked out players where you get UMD funcationality thats seperate from the player due to the embeded db they might use. Then that sir, is another fiasco all together.

Re:Please -- Mount Man (1)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338373)

It's obvious that this girl is interested -- otherwise, why else would she switch to Ubuntu?...Go get some.

Maybe one of us should write a nice graphical lesson for him on blogspot.

I never liked the iRiver (5, Informative)

bssteph (967858) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337321)

My experience with iRivers is a bit old (it's before there was a libmtp), but here goes.

libmtp should work, in the normal "well, it's supposed to work" sense, (as listed at http://libmtp.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=compa tibility [sourceforge.net] ) but note I've never used that model. The sparse Syncropated page doesn't say if it actually *uses* libmtp, and in fact, I can't see any mention of MTP on their website; it only mentions mass storage.

My iRiver required some incantation when turning on the device to put it into mass storage mode, I would assume this is still the case. I think you had to hold stop while turning it on, but it's been so long and it was so immediately frustrating that I've purged that experience from my brain. It could have been anything.

Since this is an Ask article... I use an iAudio X5 (http://www.cowonglobal.com/product/product_X5_fea ture.php). The mother company is Korean, so the website and docs can be a bit funny with the English at times, but otherwise it's a great product. Rockbox (http://www.rockbox.org/) is a safe firmware replacement, and it also, well, rocks. In either firmware, the device is a simple mass storage device (with no funny business other than an obnoxious adapter necessary for USB), and KDE ([insert dig on Gnome]) picks it up immediately.

For actually syncing, I'm a junkie for simplicity: I use rsync and a directory full of symlinks to the music I want.

Re:I never liked the iRiver (1)

bssteph (967858) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337489)

Yay mangled links.

Anyway, as people are mentioning, Amarok is popular, and for very good reason. It uses libmtp to do its syncing, so that advice should carry over.

Failure to see problem (-1, Flamebait)

pipatron (966506) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337335)

I bought a music player that can play free formats. It shows up as a normal USB memory stick. I store my music as normal files, sorted as I wish in folders. Where is the problem?

Re:Failure to see problem (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337411)

The problem seems to be that the music player in question isn't really implementing UMS mode as Linux implements it, and is thus not recognized.

Re:Failure to see problem (1)

pizpot (622748) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338037)

iRiver ifp799 works fine when formatted to ums mode in ubuntu.

Re:Failure to see problem (1)

Yetihehe (971185) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338385)

And my iRiver T10 just works. I plug it in, it shows on desktop and rhytmbox is able to see it without problem. So the problem is NOT with linux, but just with some players.

It's the Linux (tm) way (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19337337)

Write your own Driver you n00b!
Seriously though.

Re:It's the Linux (tm) way (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338459)

GNU/Linux (tm) according to RMS

AmaroK. (4, Informative)

MoOsEb0y (2177) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337357)

I use AmaroK. It works with my 4g iPod and my Blackberry Pearl. It will sync any generic mass storage device also. I'd give it a try.

Re:AmaroK. (2, Informative)

GrueMaster (579195) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337779)

I also use Amarok, and the one irritating feature is that every storage device I plug in to the usb port gets picked up by Amarok (it pops up a screen asking if it should sync music). I have 3 iRirver IFP-79x series mp3/ogg players, two are using their IFP firmware, the third is using a UMS firmware. All three work perfectly with Amarok.

Re:AmaroK. (1)

saibot834 (1061528) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338551)

I don't want to be a quibbler, but it's actually Amarok instead of amaroK. It was renamed in June 2006. Source [kde.org]

I haven't tried it but ... (4, Informative)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337361)

... this [sourceforge.net] doesn't work?

From that project:

Unless otherwise noted, projects support all iRiver iFP devices. Users have reported successfully accessing models iFP-1xx,3xx,5xx,7xx,8xx,9xx and N10. We don't anticipate difficulty supporting future models.

(Note: iRiver offers 'UMS' firmware for some iFP models. Devices running UMS firmware are compatible with generic USB Mass Storage drivers, and do not need any of the drivers mentioned here.)
Personally, (most) MP3 players I've hooked up to Linux through a USB have been recognized as just plain old drives. You put the MP3 in the right folder (sometimes takes testing) and there it is, ready to play.

For mass storage devices (1)

SCHecklerX (229973) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337401)

Use rsync.

Re:For mass storage devices (2, Informative)

timeOday (582209) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338499)

Yes.  Here's how I configured my laptop to automatically synchronize my mp3 player with my linux laptop.  I just plug the player to the laptop usb port, and viola, moments later it's done.  I already know this is going to bring heckles from the gui-only crowd, but it really is extremely convenient for me and it might be useful to some of you.  You'll have to change the "model" to match your own player, and the music directories on your computer and mp3 player.

# /etc/udev/rules.d/99-IAUDIO.rules:
KERNEL=="sd?1" , SYSFS{model} == "iAUDIO G3", GROUP="users", MODE="660", SYMLINK+="iaudio", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '(/bin/echo; /bin/date; /root/bin/iaudio) >> /tmp/udevlog 2>&1'"

# /root/bin/iaudio:
#!/bin/sh

/bin/mount -v -t vfat -o gid=users,umask=007 /dev/iaudio /mnt/iaudio &&
/usr/bin/rsync --verbose --update --recursive --delete /mnt/media/byartist/NPR/atc /mnt/iaudio/music
/bin/umount /mnt/iaudio

Syncropated! problems (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337423)

Syncroprated! is listed as 'pre-Alpha' on garage.maemo.org. So I would imagine that it might have problems. But, it is written Python, so it should be fairly easy to debug the problem if you're a developer. If not, well, you'll have to wait for the app to become a bit more mature. Since I'm a Python developer, I think I'll download it and have a look at the code. It looks like a neat program to spend some time with.

BTW--Personally, I just use Nautilus to sync up my Creative Labs Zen Nano player.

iRiver H320 (1)

RiffRafff (234408) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337439)

My iRiver H320 is seen by Linux distros as a MSC, but if I recall correctly, later models like your Clix dropped that functionality when iRiver got in bed with Microsoft and their DRM. You'll probably find more info on http://www.misticriver.net/ [misticriver.net] .

Re:iRiver H320 (1)

bodgit (658527) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337757)

My iRiver H320 is seen by Linux distros as a MSC

And if you want to maintain that database of audio metadata in the root of the filesystem, I wrote a small utility [freshmeat.net] for my H340.

Try looking on... (4, Informative)

Zwack (27039) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337483)

Anything but Ipod [anythingbutipod.com] The forums are very helpful...

Some people in the Sandisk Sansa E200 Linux forum have run MTP Mode on Linux...

Z.

Using the irivier Clix on Linux (3, Informative)

GRW (63655) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337485)

A quick Google search got me this: Using the irivier Clix on Linux [clixhere.net]

SuperSync (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19337493)

I use SuperSync to sync all my music libraries over the net and locally.. it was written in java and eclipse SWT, so a linux version may be possible.

http://supersync.com/ [supersync.com]

Might work.. might not..

Do71l (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19337499)

Conducted at MIT We strongly urge w0rds, Don't get antibacterial soap. reaper Nor do the Charnel house.

mount, rsync? (1)

proxima (165692) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337503)

Sounds like your device may not be connecting correctly. My iAudio X5 shows up the same as a USB flash drive does, and KDE asks me whether I want to mount it automatically. From there, I can use a GUI like konqueror (or, as others will mention, Amarok). Typically, though, I just use the command line.

For a while I synced podcasts with rsync in a small script which I linked from a KDE menu:

SOURCE=/path/to/podcasts/
DEST=/path/to/player/podcasts/
rsync -av $SOURCE $TARGET

The same could easily be done for a directory of music small enough to fit on the player. If space is a concern, you could also (very carefully) use the --delete option, but I don't know if I've tested that.

Re:mount, rsync? (1)

proxima (165692) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337547)

Whoops: s/TARGET/DEST/

Dodgy cable? (1)

DaveCar (189300) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338487)


My GF was trying to get use her X5 under Ubuntu unsuccessfully. I took out a short USB extension cable which she used to access a spare USB port on the back of the machine - suddenly it worked fine.

Make sure you are using only the cable that came with the device.

Sansa (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337535)

I use a Sansa m240 (or 230 - I forget). Anyway, it has the really nice quality that you can just dump a bunch of MP3 files onto it, and it will look at the id3 tags (artist, album, etc.) to automatically organize the songs. This is nice because any Linux software can just treat it as a plain old USB Mass Storage device, but I still get nicely categorized MP3s when I use the Sansa.

So the Sansa works pretty well, but there's one annoying problem. I use Amarok to get podcasts and to transfer them to the Sansa. Amarok tries to put the items on to the Sansa using a directory tree with levels based on artist, album, etc. The problem is that for some reason Amarok's transfer to the Sansa fails unless the corresponding directory already exists on the Sansa. So when I subscribe to a new podcast, my first transfer always fails. I have to look at the name of the directory path Amarok was planning to use on the Sansa, create it myself on the Sansa's file system, and then restart the transfer. My guess is that this is Amarok's fault, not the Sansa's.

can't blame you for trying (4, Funny)

flynt (248848) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337537)

From the bottom of the first tutorial...

Cassandra said...

        this is awesome Dan thanks!! you OBVIOUSLY have way too much time on your hands...lol but i'm glad to benefit from it!

In other words, DENIED! Sorry, man, we've all been there.

Even iPod ain't great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19337567)

The iPod support isn't that great either. I love how when I eject the iPod it immediately automatically reconnects. LOL. I have to go to a command line and manually unmount it to get it to stick.

Palm Tungsten T and SD Card (1)

mw13068 (834804) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337577)

I use my Palm Tungsten T and a non-free player called pTunes and a 1GB SD Card to store my music. I love it because I use my PDA heavily still *and* it plays my music. I'd hate to have a separate music player that only did that one thing.

And since the music is stored as regular ol' .ogg files on the SD card, getting them on and off is easy with GNU/Linux.

To sync? (1)

JCWDenton (851047) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337597)

I use Gnomad2 with my Creative JukeBox Zen Xtra 30Gb. Works a charm. (Even better than the software Creative ships with it which integrates with your explorer).

Also, have you looked at whether there are any SDK's available for the problematic device?

My solution (4, Insightful)

JustNiz (692889) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337613)

I buy players wisely first. I make a point of researching beforehand and only buy players that:

1) Appear as a generic storage device when plugged into USB and doesn't require drivers or other software to be installed on your PC.
( this gets around any Windows-only and most DRM limitations, and also means I can use it as portable storage for other files).

2) Supports ogg ( and FLAC if possible )

3) Doesn't contain DRM

Sansa m200 series with Rockbox (2, Informative)

joedoc (441972) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337943)

My wife gifted me with a 4 GB Sansa m200 this Christmas. It has both modes (MTP and whatever the other one is called), video, radio, recording, etc. Up to 8 GB storage. I have no interest in video (bad eyes), radio or anything other than it's music capabilities. And whether or not it worked with Linux.

As expected, it's mounted as a storage drive when plugged into the USB port. I'm not so anal that I have to sync stuff (I have too much music and am rarely home these days), so I just drag and drop whatever I want to hear onto the player. My only gripe with it up to this point was no open formats (ogg, flac).

However, Rockbox [rockbox.org] has made firmware available for this model and it's incredible. (Warning: this will not work with the m200R Rhapsody models). Not only does the unit sound better, it now supports all open formats and adds a ton of configuration features not available with the stock firmware.

The other great thing is that you can dual boot between Rockbox and Sansa firmware, and update the Rockbox firmware but just plugging in to a computer and copying the open downloaded firmware archive to the device. Deleting and going back to Sansa control is very easy as well.

Great devices, those Sansas.

Re:My solution (1)

Se7enLC (714730) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337945)

So that narrows your list down to zero. Makes it easy to pick.

Re:My solution (1)

genji256 (1108069) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338355)

Well, the iAudio players pretty much fulfills all the requirements. Mine (G3) is a UMS device, plays OGG, has a radio and does not contain any DRM that I know of. My only concern is that the joystick is pretty fragile. As someone else noted, the iRiver (not with the original firmware, though, or at least in Europe) do too (at least those that I know of).

Re:My solution (1)

Boreras (1000123) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338383)

And this is were he was wrong.
For in fact my current MP3 player, the Cowon iAudio X5L "officially" supports Linux (from kernel 2.2+). It plays both ogg Vorbis and FLAC (besides things like MP3 etc.). The sound quality is good (as in comparison, I'd say iPod's is bad, but that's just my non-audiophile opinion).

Re:My solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338025)

Do you know where she can rent a Time Machine so she can go back in time and make a "wise" purchase? If not, then your comment is hardly helpful to her.

Re:My solution (1)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338249)

You just described an IRiver.

Sure the IRiver may need to be flashed to get the right storage type. Almost all of them support Ogg/Vorbis except for a few models introduced before the judge smacked MS down over their plays for sure forbidding support of non-MS supported file types.

With the exception of their cowering in the corner when MS said do it this way, I respect IRiver products for that reason. Only the Neuros ranks higher in feel good penguin points.

Re:My solution (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338267)

I'm with this guy. If Linux automounts as any other removable drive, I'm happy. I could care less about syncing it with some mp3 library gizmo. I find syncing with media librarians a little tedious. Drag and drop, is all I need. A playlist generator is nice, but I can live without. If they don't do .m3u I don't need them anyway. And there seems to be as many formats for something is stupid as a playlist as there are players. We just need ONE FORMAT people.

Re:My solution (2, Insightful)

ErroneousBee (611028) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338421)

Ditto that.

I view ogg support as a clue that the designers of the device have given some thought to what the device should be capable of, and arnt just ticking the boxes that marketing want ticked.

Other clues are:

  • Battery life. In particular, lying about it. A sign that the company is dishonest, and have lied about other features.
  • No products in the lineup that take AAA or AA batteries. A sign that designers only develop features suggested by marketing.
  • Proprietary connectors. Unless theres some good reason for it, like Apples dock.
  • Sudden changes in technical direction from the company. Archos and iRiver did this, and their product suite turned to shit overnight.
  • Flash ridden website with no device specifications. A sign that the company are selling an image and do not understand the product.

I go for UMS devices because then I can manage my player from anywhere without having to use special software. I can drop a podcast onto my player at work, or when I'm away.

Re:My solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338521)

And have you actually found such a device?

spon6e (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19337617)

guest and 8ever get dim. If *BSD is

Damn... (1)

jbdaem (959867) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337659)

What perfect timing.. This quite corresponds to the other article the other day about getting the oldskool players put in the graveyard by the ipod... I think someone even predicted this.. :) Kismet strikes again...

Forget it. (1)

I. C. Wiener (1108307) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337667)

Even if you get to synchronize her tunes, she won't let you synchronize with her.

Need a HAL Update (1)

Joe Tennies (564856) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337685)

Seeing it appears you are using Ubuntu, I'll give you instructions for that.

Open a bug in Launchpad (http://launchpad.net). Place the name of the device and output from lsusb and lshw when the device is plugged in.

Most likely the device did not declare itself as a DAP (Digital Audio Player) in HAL. It's a simple configuration file change if you want to make it yourself as well.

I had to get a similar change in for my Samsung DAP.

Re:Need a HAL Update (1)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337833)

Do you have a Samsung YP-T9? Mine says "Connected", immediately followed by a "Not Connected", then a power cycle.

IIRC, there was an error in syslog about the device not accepting a USB ID, though it works fine when I connect it to either of my roommate's Windows PCs.

(Though once I do get it connected, I'm unsure how I'll copy videos over; they're supposed to be SVI files with some pretty specific audio and video codec requirements.)

Re:Need a HAL Update (1)

RedHat Rocky (94208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338015)

I have a Samsung as well, YP-1F if I recall correctly. The player had an issue with the ehci_hcd kernel module.

One symptom of my problem: with the player plugged in, a simple "cat /proc/bus/usb/devices" would hang until the player was removed.

Try rmmod ehci_hcd as root and then see if the player is detected correctly.

Good Luck!

Sandisk Sansa & Amarok (1)

ThatComputerGuy (123712) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337687)

I've been using a Sandisk Sansa e260 for a number of months now, and it's working very well with Linux. It's in mass-storage mode, so it gets picked up by the usb-storage module. I then use KDE's Amarok music player to sync over new MP3s. The thing also has Rockbox support underway, though I think it's not yet complete...

Sansa e200 Series (1)

ztynzo (798194) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337769)

My Sansa shows up just like any other USB Flashdrive in Ubuntu (Provided it's in MSC mode)...

There may be a setting to switch from MTP to MSC as there is on the Sansa, this would account for failure of Ubuntu to see it... it works beautifully with linux (at least for music, videos and photos are a pain to convert I hear)

sad days are upon us (0, Flamebait)

spongebobsquarepants (588438) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337781)

Oh boo hoo, the world will end because you can't sync your mp3 player...or at least your particular model. If this is a real weak point in the Linux Desktop, then we've come a long way. Instead of whining to the community, write an app or complain to the makers of iRiver that they are not supporting their customer base by refusing to write a quick and dirty, yet shiny and neat-o, application to sync your player under Linux. Beeya!

doing it myself (1)

noldrin (635339) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337797)

I hook it up to the computer and let it auto mount. If I need to do a full resync I delete the info on the usb drive, and drag my music onto drive. Usually I just drag the music to it and let it only add what is new. I manage my 30GB IAudio this way.

5G iPod Stinks, Too (2, Interesting)

TheNinjaroach (878876) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337801)

5G iPod support stinks for me in Linux as well. I love my ability to rip any MP3s from an iPod with KDE by typing "ipod:/" and having everything sorted nicely. On the other hand, synching is terribly broken. Last night I tried using both the ipod:/ kioslave AND Amarok (which probably uses the ipod kioslave) with mostly poor results. 16GB of music was copied to my device, but only 350 of my 2500 songs "registered" on the iPod. The rest were in the appropriate folders, but the iPod stated 15GB of its data were "Other" files and could not play them.

I have finally reached the point where I regret buying my iPod Video. I loved my old 30GB Photo but iTunes has become more bloated and buggy instead of getting better like I always thought it would. They've obscured the internal iPod library beyond usability, I really wish my player appeared as a "USB Mass Storage" device and simply played the files I dropped to it.

Re:5G iPod Stinks, Too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338137)

seems to me like you need rockbox

How do you sync your mass storage device? (1)

SevenHands (984677) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337809)

I find that a manual sync via RCA out from my 8-Track player into my soundcard and recording via Jack Audio/Ardour most effective for my every day needs. You never know when you'll get a box full of these old tapes. However, once I'm finished this batch of tapes, I'm gonna miss that clickety click sound between tracks.

Re:How do you sync your mass storage device? (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338533)

You could probably write a plugin for Rhythmbox to insert the "clickclack" between sets of tracks. There's already a way to pause for three seconds between tracks so Minidisc recorders can pick up the gap.

Amarok again (4, Interesting)

Apreche (239272) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337867)

I don't use KDE, but I use Amarok. Honestly, it is the only media player on Linux worth anything. Banshee and others look fine at first, but you will realize they are unstable pieces of junk if you try to add more than 50 songs to the library. Also, if you use an iPod, you can get it to work with Amarok or other Linux apps quite easily. However, the experience will never be as smooth as iTunes. This is a serious problem. This is why even though I run Linux on all my machines, I still use an iPod with a Mac mini for podcast listening. There simply isn't any other solution that works as smoothly.

It seems to me.... (1)

LordPhantom (763327) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337877)

It seems to me that this is a weakness in your hardware device (not properly supporting the mass-storage device standards) more so than that of Linux. Not that that functionally helps -you- all that much, but blame where blame is due.

creative/dell players (1)

neersign (956437) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337897)

use libnjb [sourceforge.net] or some use libmtp [sourceforge.net] . Just stating it for the record. You can then use Gnomad2 [sourceforge.net] or Amarok to manage songs, or use it as a usb drive.

old tech does better (1)

ClintJCL (264898) | more than 7 years ago | (#19337909)

PCI fm transmitter. $5 stereo at a yardsale. Central music for your whole house. Google "PCI-MAX 2005".

HAL workaround (1)

magicrobotmonkey (948047) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338019)

I had a similar problem with a Cowon D2 and rhythmbox. I'd plug it in, it would mount, but rhythmbox never saw it. I found this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=312196 [ubuntuforums.org] basically just create an empty file .is_audio_player on the root of the device and rhythmbox will recognize it when you plug it in. I believe this only works in mass storage mode.

MTP Device and FreeBSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338131)

I've used GNomad2 for my creative Nomad Zen for years. Recently I switched to a Creative Vision W (a MTP device ) and noticed that GNomad2 has been expanded to include all devices via libMTP. It might be working a look for you.

Verify that you are using the correct firmware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338215)

According to the Wikipedia article on iRiver Clix [wikipedia.org] , there are two versions of the firmware available: One supports MTP [wikipedia.org] (Windows only) and the other supports UMS [wikipedia.org] (generic mass storage and OS agnostic). If your friend's Clix has the former installed, just download the firmware for which UMS is supported and flash the device. (You may need to find a Windows box for that step. Annoyingly, some hardware manufacturers require the use of Windows software for loading their firmware.) After that, Ubuntu should automatically mount the player immediately when the device is connected and using it with Ubuntu should be quite easy.

Sansa e130 - Shortcomings (1)

vhogemann (797994) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338287)

I have a Sansa e130... it has only 521MB, and shows as USB storage, so I don't really had much trouble copying my music to it using nothing but the file manager...

But, I do miss some features that both iTunes and WMP have... Such as the option to downsample the music as it syncs with the device, and the iTunes' "AutoFill" feature that just fills the iPod with a random selection from your highest rated songs.

Also, I'd like to be able to create playlists with a size limit... so I know it will always fit inside my player.

WMP under WINE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19338291)

Is this a doable?

Automount, libmtp (1)

AJWM (19027) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338381)

If you've got automount running, UMS devices should just magically appear as storage when plugged in. Works fine in Suse 10.1, anyway. For MTP devices, libmtp [sourceforge.net] works fine. I just got a Samsung YP-T9 and replaced the MTP firmware with UMS firmware by transferring it with mtp-sendfile from libmtp. (There's also mtpfs [adebenham.com] which is supposed to make an MTP device look like a file system. I haven't tried it, it uses FUSE (user-space filesystem) which I haven't got installed at the moment and libmtp did the job.)

On the YP-T9 after transferring, I can play the files directly from the file viewer menu, but I need to run the "update library" to get them to show up under the music menu. (The player also plays Ogg Vorbis files just fine, but the current firmware doesn't seem to recognize Ogg metadata the way it does MP3 metadata. Sigh.) The same seems to be true if I transfer files from Windows in UMS mode.

Why Linux won't happen on the desktop (0, Troll)

Animats (122034) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338497)

If you've got automount running, UMS devices should just magically appear as storage when plugged in. Works fine in Suse 10.1, anyway. For MTP devices, libmtp [sourceforge.net] works fine. I just got a Samsung YP-T9 and replaced the MTP firmware with UMS firmware by transferring it with mtp-sendfile from libmtp. (There's also mtpfs [adebenham.com] which is supposed to make an MTP device look like a file system. I haven't tried it, it uses FUSE (user-space filesystem) which I haven't got installed at the moment and libmtp did the job.)

On the YP-T9 after transferring, I can play the files directly from the file viewer menu, but I need to run the "update library" to get them to show up under the music menu. (The player also plays Ogg Vorbis files just fine, but the current firmware doesn't seem to recognize Ogg metadata the way it does MP3 metadata. Sigh.) The same seems to be true if I transfer files from Windows in UMS mode.

That's why Linux on the desktop isn't going anywhere. The end user, not the developer, gets stuck with integration. Any questions?

rsync (1)

reub2000 (705806) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338399)

I use rsync to sync my iRiver H120 to my computer's music collection.

You are positively batshit insane. (3, Insightful)

mrsbrisby (60242) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338457)

Unless you use an iPod, this appears to be a real weak point in the Linux desktop.
iRiver doesn't work very well on a Macintosh either, so I bet you consider it a weak point in the Macintosh desktop as well.

How about this: if iRiver doesn't work in Linux, complain to iRiver.

With Linux, you could also fix the problem yourself. You could also pay someone to fix the problem. If the iRiver is popular enough, you could also wait and someone else will fix it for you.

With Windows, you don't have those options, so I consider that a weak point in the Windows desktop.

Copying files around is not really "syncing" (1)

jopet (538074) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338503)

OK, I am using a Creative Zen with Ubuntu and it mounts like an USB stick just fine.
However, I'd not call this syncing. Usually, I have a growing collection of music or podcasts on my harddisk and I want to e.g. copy the new ones to the mp3 player and remove the ones I have already listened to on my player or even in my collection.

Tracking what I have already listened to and using this information for archiving, deleting, copying etc. of tracks seems like the obvious and natural thing to do, but I havent figured out any way how to do this under Ubuntu.

So -- is this because I missed something or because it cannot be done?

Creative (1)

phrostie (121428) | more than 7 years ago | (#19338513)

my little creative has never given me a problem with linux (debian etch)
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