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TurboLinux to Sell Wizpy Media Player Worldwide

CowboyNeal posted more than 7 years ago | from the rocking-tux-on-the-go dept.

158

MsManhattan writes "TurboLinux will attempt to lure Windows users over to the Linux operating system in baby steps this June when it starts selling its Wizpy media player worldwide. The pocket-sized device, which plays audio and video files, is really a Linux carrot of sorts, in that it also allows users to store a complete Linux desktop in its memory. You can plug the Wizpy into a PC's USB port and boot up the Linux system with all its user settings, passwords, bookmarks, etc. It originally launched in Japan, where TurboLinux marketed it to 'early adopters who are curious about using Linux but either don't want to or can't install the operating system.' The company will now target the same crowd around the globe, starting in the U.S., the U.K., Australia, India and Singapore."

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Linux will dominate the world (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19348875)

Hail Tux!

any system? (0, Troll)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348881)

I want to know how this will work on any system when Linux is imfamous for it's lack of support for some hardware.

I can see a use for this, but it seems a broad claim for any Linux distro.

Re:any system? (4, Funny)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348915)

just write your own drivers, GOD can't you do anything without being spoonhead you bonehead user! it's all your fault our OS can't handle many simple tasks

Re:any system? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19349293)

What have the Cardassians to do with this?

I know the Obsidian Order is behind all things bad, but surely you're paranoid if you think the prevent him from writing drivers...

Re:any system? (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349697)

GOD can't you do anything without being spoonhead you bonehead user!

Spoonhead? That's one I've never seen before. Maybe I should go add it to the Eggcorn Database [lascribe.net] ...

Not really (1)

Rix (54095) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348919)

Knoppix and other livecd based distros do pretty much the same thing.

Re:Not really (0)

dave420 (699308) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349055)

And not very well, so the issue still stands... Linux doesn't have as complete hardware support as some of the other OSs out there. Until that changes, this will have very limited use, as it only takes one unsupported component and you're screwed.

Re:Not really (4, Insightful)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349083)

Linux doesn't have as complete hardware support as some of the other OSs out there.

Linux has far better hardware support than any other OS out there.

It's extremely rare that you need to install any drivers on any modern distro. Mac supports a very limited hardware set, while Windows needs half a dozen drivers post-install just to get everything working.

In the context of a media player capable of booting from any modern computer, Linux much better placed than other OSs.

Re:Not really (1, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349137)

"Linux has far better hardware support than any other OS out there. "

bullshit, and you know it. wireless drivers, onboard drivers, 3d accerleration. they all SUCK to install on linux. not to mention specialised stuff like hdtv tuners.

Re:Not really (5, Interesting)

dannycim (442761) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349175)

"Linux has far better hardware support than any other OS out there. "

bullshit, and you know it. wireless drivers, onboard drivers, 3d accerleration. they all SUCK to install on linux. not to mention specialised stuff like hdtv tuners.


I challenge you to wipe your Windows HD, re-install everything from just a windows CD and see how much of that hardware works.

In my experience, out-of-the-box clean installs are generally easier and more complete in Linux.

Re:Not really (2, Interesting)

orangeyoda (958347) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349367)

I've recently done this. Clean install of windows, gets a network connection up and running and i can get the drivers to install the rest of the cards. Red Hat -- Wifi drivers don't work , installed faq has a helpfull link to a Website on how to get your wifi card to work. Suse -- Same deal as redhat Knoppix -- does not support my wifi card Various LiveCD's don't support it either. Eventually what I had to do was remove all the PCI cards from my box, install 4 different pci wifi cards, 1 usb wifi card and then install Suse 10.0 (10.1 doesn't work with any of the cards ) , eventually it found one that it could use an RA2500 based card, but there was no setting for TKIP - instructions on a wiki on the web. bloody usefull I must say. Changed my settings on the router to WEP encryption and it suddenly starts working. figured out how it should be set up for TKIP and changed it back, and it stopped working after the reboot. Uninstalled suse, but the companies vista version on that box, spent 5 mins playing with the crap interface and wooshy effects, same with the java3D interface. uninstalled and put the initial win2k back on to it, left it for 8 hours while it auto patched itself, another 4 - 5 hours installing the server software, and my box was ready again. Until linux sorts out the basics, like having the help files on the install cd. Having TKIP working out of the box and not insecure WEP etc. I can't see myself using it.

Re:Not really (1)

pla (258480) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349855)

gets a network connection up and running and i can get the drivers to install the rest of the cards

Exactly - You missed the parent's point - It does NOT "just work" after a clean XP install. In your case, you got lucky and the single most annoying part to get working, the network, happened to come up okay. But all those other drivers that allows you to download, don't work OOB.



Eventually what I had to do was remove all the PCI cards from my box, install 4 different pci wifi cards

When Dell builds you a PC, they use all parts that either Microsoft (or their own testing) has certified as functioning under XP. If you checked for Linux compatibility BEFORE buying, you wouldn't need to randomly try four different cards.

Now, that doesn't excuse the fact that four cards simply didn't work well (or at all) under Linux - But literally thousands of people would jump at the opportunity to write those very drivers, if the manufacturers didn't make it as difficult as possible to get the necessary info.

Two main points (2, Insightful)

DrYak (748999) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350125)

So the two main points to make wider Linux marketshare are :

- Have system builders that hand-pick components known to work with Linux distros. Both small Linux shops and initiatives from large manufacturers like Dell shipping Ubuntu on some computers will help. If they build machines on which Linux just installs(tm), that will be a nice step forward.

This will be much more creative than bitching whose OS is better for a clean install and throwing personal anecdotes at each other as arguments. (Yes, I know you can find WiFi cards that don't work on Linux out of the box. On the other hand you can also find server that are completely supported in Linux - Chipset, RAID controllers, etc. - whereas under Windows you need to pop several floppy disks just to get the install started. It's just a matter of who selected the hardware and for what purpose)

- Put pressure on the makers of chips used in WiFi, GFX Cards, etc... to release enough specs so the community will be able to write a decent opensource driver.

This is the only possible solution. Keeping a stable ABI or using shims/BLOBs is a fundamentally bad idea. Unless you want to bring Windows' "my printer drivers made the whole system crash" stability to Linux. And accompanying driver portability on anything but x86 architecture (Do I really need to bring the subject of driver availability under Windows XP 64bits edition ?). If the drivers aren't GPLed, drivers produced by manufacturer aren't that much useful.

Re:Not really (1)

Stevecrox (962208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349615)

Tried Vista with an internet connection?

I've had expearence with installing vista on four machines (all four had net connections) when Vista first booted it it went online downloaded all the drivers installed them and asked me to restart. These machines were all less than a year old and I agree on older machines you would be less likely to have a driver (i'm talking three or four years old.) Sure Vista sucks for out of the box driver support but this great thing called the interweb means it auto-installs alot of newer drivers. XP is not in the same league as Feisty Fawn and Vista for this, yet Feisty fawn lacks my web camera and tv card divers (which XP and Vista have.)

Re:Not really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19349721)

Great, but what if: a) The computer being setup does not have an internet connection or b) The network card is not supported. In either case, Vista has next to no support. If someone wrote a Linux distro to do that (and they may already have), then it would be great, but calling that out of the box support in Vista is a lie. Vista is just "saving you time" by doing the driver hunt for you. Of course, if you had a network connection in XP, it could also search the web for drivers post-install.

Re:Not really (1)

mrogers (85392) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349727)

I challenge you to wipe your Windows HD, re-install everything from just a windows CD and see how much of that hardware works.
That's a straw man - if a piece of hardware requires extra drivers for Windows, it comes with a driver CD. If you lose the CD you can easily download and install the drivers without ever seeing a command prompt, let alone recompiling your kernel or googling to find out where your distro stores its firmware images or a thousand other annoying little jobs. I love Linux and I use it exclusively, but I'm not blind to its weaknesses, and hardware support (especially for wireless cards, as the GP pointed out) is one of those weaknesses.

Re:Not really (1)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350007)

if a piece of hardware requires extra drivers for Windows, it comes with a driver CD. If you lose the CD you can easily download and install the drivers

What does this have to do with the topic of running the complete OS from a USB stick without any configuration?

missing the point (1)

sentientbrendan (316150) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349775)

the point is that drivers *exist* and *work* for windows, but they don't *exist* or don't *work* for linux. If it's *impossible* to get hardware to work properly for linux, that's a real problem. Hardware problems are the #1 thing keeping the linux desktop/laptop in eternal limbo... Even my ubuntu install on fairly common hardware has issues...

As for OSX... that's a whole different ballgame. You rarely hear "this hardware didn't work perfectly" complaints from mac users, but that's because most of the core system is designed or handpicked by apple. Aside from that the main video card venders always have decent (if not 100% as good as windows) drivers for mac.

Re:Not really (1)

jacksonj04 (800021) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350059)

Just done one, and a laptop no less. Worked perfectly first time, even the network drivers and the 3D acceleration.

Last time I tried a Linux distro on it (Ubuntu 7.4, about 8 hours ago) it refused point blank to even get to a desktop, bottling out at trying to load X.

Re:Not really (2, Informative)

gerrysteele (927030) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349393)

Well you don't seem to actually know anything about the thing you are criticising. Well done. Out of the box a windows install is all but useless. Linux out of the box supports near on anything.

Re:Not really (4, Informative)

dc29A (636871) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349475)

"Linux has far better hardware support than any other OS out there. "

bullshit, and you know it. wireless drivers, onboard drivers, 3d accerleration. they all SUCK to install on linux. not to mention specialised stuff like hdtv tuners.


Troll, but I'll bite.

Installing XP SP2 on either of my PCs (standard Asus board, Athlon X2) requires:
- Video driver (7600 GS)
- Audio (on board)
- Sata RAID (I can skip this and go with Window's builtin raid, but I'll lose the ability to put my C: drive on Raid0).
- Network
- Chipset

Feisty:
- Video Driver (if I really want it!, the nvidia driver is ok, of course upgrading to a proprietary driver = 3 mouse clicks + 1 password).

PS: Wireless worked out of the box for my laptop, something that didn't on Windows XP SP2.

Your mileage might vary!

Re:Not really (4, Insightful)

sgc2000 (1009197) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349539)

You should really be comparing Feisty with Vista as Feisty is reasonable new unlike XP. When I installed Vista (Intel board, P4) I didn't need to install any extra drivers to get it functioning. I had to install the nVidia drivers if I wanted 3D performance of course and I don't use RAID so I can't comment on that.

Re:Not really (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19349757)

Sata RAID (I can skip this and go with Window's builtin raid, but I'll lose the ability to put my C: drive on Raid0).

And by putting your boot drive on a RAIDed volume, you've shown me that you're not someone I want to be taking computer advice from.

Re:Not really (1)

carl0ski (838038) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349579)

you're clearly a troll

dont both talking rubbish

Linux has poor suuport for Hardware?

Tell that to my 2 x HDTV Leadtek TV Tuners that dont work in Windows at all

Where as they were plug and play in Suse 10.1 and 10.2

OUT of The Box

Tell that to my Brooktree 878 Analogue TV Tuner which only had Windows 95 drivers (no 2k or XP support)

Tell that to my Creative Audigy 2 which does not work in Windows XP correctly thanks to severe security measures Creative chose to use in their Drivers.

Linux OpenGL support for NVIDIA and ATI are equal/or Better to that in Windows especially Vista

but all of your points are irrelevant to a media player that boots a PC to allow you to access your Data, Web History and Music on the GO

Re:Not really (1)

arashi no garou (699761) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349707)

I know I'm feeding the troll here, but how does typing "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-new" in Linux suck worse than having to track down your outdated install CD and/or download and install the drivers from the website? In the first case, it's much easier (no fumbling with CDs) and in the second it's pretty much the same, minus having to open a browser and search for a download link. In fact, with apt-get there's no mouse clicks at all, unlike the InstallShield wizard used in Windows driver installs.

As for wireless, the last two Ubuntu-based distros I threw at a wireless laptop worked out-of-the-box with no driver installation period. Do that with a WinXP CD. Onboard drivers? I can honestly say that in the past five years I've yet to run across an onboard component that needed a separate driver installed; it's all in the kernel and/or default packages on nearly all Linux distros. I've never messed around with hdtv, so I have no comment in that area.

Bottom line, Linux has supported more hardware from the default install than any other OS for quite some time now. If you're a long-time resident of Slashdot then you already knew that and are a very poor troll.

Re:Not really (1)

BigDogCH (760290) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350157)

I don't agree with the anti-linux banter, but most users can figure out how to goto ATI.com and find a driver (the ones who know what a driver is anyway). "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-new"? Is that English? For those of us who are still trying to make the conversion, it is a huge barrier.

Personally, I have had trouble with audio on both of my previous desktops (in Windows and Linux). The first desktop didn't have network support on the linux or windows install either. It has seemed to me, the driver support after a fresh install is similar on each......however Windows drivers are far easier to find and install. To give Linux its props, the GPU drivers were better in Linux (suse). .......however that only lasted until it wouldn't boot the GUI after switching monitors. Back to Windows..........I will give Linux another shot next year, maybe my time won't be as valuable.

Re:Not really (1)

0232793 (907781) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349163)

ATI / Nvidia drivers??? If you want compiz / beryl u need these

Re:Not really (1)

farkus888 (1103903) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349275)

I run beryl using onboard intel video that was installed and configured right out of the box in fedora. runs like a champ as long as I don't turn everything on at once.

Re:Not really (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349295)

If you want compiz / beryl u need these

Sabayon and Kororaa both support Compiz/Beryl on live CDs. Why wouldn't TurboLinux do the same on their media drive?

Re:Not really (1)

farkus888 (1103903) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349303)

that kororaa livecd runs beautifully on my radeon9600xt with no tinkering at all.

Re:Not really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19350743)

Yes. How will you ever live without compiz/beryl when you use your mp3 player to boot an arbitrary computer into your personalized desktop for some brief tooling around? If you can't have wobbly windows and burst-into-flames-on-exit, it's hardly worth even being able to carry some of your personal data and a means to access it at all.

Re:Not really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19349839)

Yes and no.

A modern distro contains a ton of drivers, and if that is the hardware you are using it is miles ahead of the competition.
This even includes for automatic installation of closed source drivers, like nvidia.

However, if the hardware is not supported you are screwed. And unfortunately some very popular hardware falls into this category. For example the bcm4318 wireless chip in my laptop, which is supported out of the box after installing firmware, but has a rediculously short range and only 11Mbit support. Ofcourse you can use the windows driver using ndiswrapper, which solves these issues, but for some reason this sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.
This is perhaps related to the broken acpi bios in my laptop, but this is also a very common issue. Infact, edgy would not even boot without manual interference (setting noacpi), and feisty sometimes hangs on boot without this option.
And finally the webcam is not supported at all.

Now, I am not saying that windows is perfect, but as long it is the defacto standard, there will always be hardware which does not work on linux. And this does make linux harder to sell. I use it exclusively, but I cannot explain to my girlfriend that if you boot linux then, well, sometimes it just does not work, and a reboot is the only option. That means my whole story of linux being stable etc. is down the drain.

Re:Not really (1)

bkr1_2k (237627) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350459)

So it will work with my ATI All-In-Wonder out of the box? I don't think so. I'll not deny that modern distros have strong support, but to say it's better than windows because windows requires after-install driver loads is a bit silly. All OSes need that for certain hardware, it's a simple fact. The problem with Linux is that those after-install drivers are generally harder to find because they don't come with the damn device. It's getting better, but it's not there yet.

All that said, I think this little device will make some inroads that will be good for the linux community.

That's not my experience (1)

Rix (54095) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349945)

I've never had trouble booting Knoppix, and I've thrown it into a lot of random systems. It performs a hell of a lot better than than a plain XP install, especially since you have to pull shenanigans to even get the boot disk won't even recognize the disk controller on modern systems.

Re:any system? (1)

farkus888 (1103903) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348937)

wireless cards require a fair amount of work that is beyond the "complete noobs" that this is targeting. other than that using generic drivers for ati or nvidia video cards will be enough to get just about every daily users computer up and running for them to have a look around. maybe the odd scanner will not work. dv and digital cameras and mp3 players that can't be switched to function as usb mass storage can be a hassle as well.

Re:any system? (1)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348949)

you see that is the ironic thing. I switched to Linux for it's network card support. The software you had to run to config the card it in windows crashed within 10 seconds of booting. I used an Ubuntu live CD and my cards worked fine, I configed my new router and and then installed it. Ubuntu was absolutely wonderful compared to Windows.

Re:any system? (1, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348971)

omg one isolated example - you totally proved me wrong!

Re:any system? (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349169)

omg one isolated example

I've got plenty of hardware that's Linux only, a lot of which I got free or cheap when the owners upgraded to a version of Windows which obsoleted drivers. There's Matrox G200 MMS video cards that won't work under any version of Windows, but's fine with Linux, Half a dozen D-Link wireless cards that have never been supported on XP (I scored those for free when the company that bought them upgraded from '98), and more.

The thing is, the pool of drivers for Linux is increasing all the time as people get motivated to write support for their favorite toy. The pool of drivers for Windows is shrinking each time a manufacturer drops support for an older version.

Re:any system? (2, Interesting)

farkus888 (1103903) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348993)

wired card support is much better in linux than it is in windows. I have a couple of mobos with onboard 1 gig nic's that require a lot of work to run in windows. they install and run with 0 effort in every linux distro I've tried. even if it doesn't work out of the box the power is available to fix it yourself, instead of waiting for ms to decide its time to fix it for you. but thats an irrelevant point because the poeple they are targeting are not the kind of people who will be able to do that.

Re:any system? (1)

yogurtforthesoul (1032362) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348947)

I'm also worried about hardware support related issues. For instance, will it come with an adapter that will allow me to send a virus to an alien mothership?

Re:any system? (1)

poopdeville (841677) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349373)

No. Aliens use proprietary technology and Apple is the only terrestrial company to license it.

Re:any system? (1)

Stocktonian (844758) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349003)

First of all the idea that Linux has bad support for hardware is an old myth that has been pretty much fixed in recent years. There are problem areas such as graphics and WiFi but Linux supports more hardware combinations than any other operating system. Graphics cards and WiFi just tend to be popular and give a bad impression.

Where Linux doesn't work 100% it does get pretty close and if you just want to stick your USB device in and get some work done it will almost certainly handle that. Assuming you can boot from USB, which I've noticed still causes problems in a lot of places.

---
http://www.linuxlaptops.eu/ [linuxlaptops.eu]

Re:any system? (1)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349019)

I'm a Linux user, I know what is can do, but I'm playing devils advocate. If it doesn't work 100% of the time, people will be upset and not go "oh it's Linux" it will be "this crappy thing only works some times! why am I bothering!?"

Re:any system? (1)

Stocktonian (844758) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349363)

I agree that there is some hardware out there that Linux doesn't run 100% on, but there is VERY little hardware that doesn't work at all.
Compare that to Apple who's software only runs on a very small set of hardware options, and Windows which has a lots of devices supported but the quality of those drivers is usually incredibly bad. By the way I don't think that is Microsoft's fault, but the hardware manufacturer. If they release open specs then it's Microsoft's fault.

I'd say Linux is the perfect choice for this, I can't think of another OS which would boot and provide at least a usable environment on such a wide range of hardware. The other OSes have some serious catching up to do if they're interested in being equivalent.

Re:any system? (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349041)

I want to know how this will work on any system when Linux is imfamous for it's lack of support for some hardware.

I think you have that backwards, hardware its infamous for its lack of Linux. the vast majority of drivers are written for windows and/or mac. were the situation reversed, windows and mac would be said to have a problem with hardware support too. but then again, that myth isnt true anymore, linux supports alot of hardware at least partially that windows throws a fit over.

I can see a use for this, but it seems a broad claim for any Linux distro.

no it isnt, you can already run damn small linux from *inside* another OS and live cds dont seem to have a problem working either albeit not inside the host OS.

Re:any system? (1)

dave420 (699308) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349069)

That changes absolutely nothing. You can't get the same use out of a hardware device that's not functioning simply because you know it's not its fault that it's not working. That's borderline insanity. The fact is, Linux has shitty hardware support. That's it. That's the bottom line. Until that's changed, however that should happen, projects like this are flights of fancy with very, very limited application. Because if it doesn't work, what's the point in having it?

Re:any system? (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349161)

The fact is, Linux has shitty hardware support.

that's BS. Windows doesnt support A LOT of hardware- even some that Linux DOES support. the hardware that isnt supported out of the box by Linux certainly isnt by Windows.

Re:any system? (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349201)

"Windows doesnt support A LOT of hardware- even some that Linux DOES support"

people keep flapping their gums about it but i don't see no proof bobby-joe

Re:any system? (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349221)

can you ever think of a time that windows supported hardware out of the box that linux didnt?

Re:any system? (1)

farkus888 (1103903) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349247)

not once, and I use both daily. the advantage for windows on that front is that windows drivers are easier for the computer illiterate to get running. 1 missing driver in a linux distro is harder for an average joe to fix than 5 windows drivers.

Re:any system? (1)

farkus888 (1103903) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349233)

how often do you use linux to have real familiarity with its "shitty hardware support" when was the last time you had to install chipset drivers with a linux distro to get usb 2.0 or onboard audio working? I have to do it every time with fresh installs of XP, yes even SP2. don't just slander linux without naming specific devices that are an issue. those of us who use it admit wifi and 3d graphics are an issue. I don't ignore those issues because I feel its someone elses fault, I ignore them because I feel other advantages [speed, reliability, power] outweigh them. you will need to learn to work ndiswrapper or madwifi if you want wireless, but aside from people doing CAD and graphic design you don't need ultra high power 3d graphics except to game. and lack of games is more of an issue on that front than drivers are. especially considering most PC gamers I know have the knowledge to work a graphics driver out on their own. generic drivers will get you far enough to get recipes and driving directions off the web and check your email, all most people do on a daily basis. those people need to know there is something out there that can do what they need better and cheaper than windows and all on cheaper hardware as well.

Re:any system? (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349183)

you must come from the department of we are going to talk nonsense to divert attention away from our failings.

seriously think about your argument there.... I just purchased a $300 device and linux doesn't work on it... what am i going to ditch first, the $300 or the free os?

Re:any system? (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349205)

heh... let me guess proprietary/company driver? did windows work out of the box on it? didnt think so.

Re:any system? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19349743)

Depends on your requirements. Most people would be smart enough to check that the devices would work with their OS before plonking down $300 on it. Even if you didn't do that and still spent $300, the people with a clue would contact the manufacturer and ask them for support; you just spend $300 on their hardware, after all.

Oh wait, was I supposed to say something like "I'd cry and stamp my feet, install Windows and then spend the rest of my days trolling the internet and telling everyone who shitty Linux is because it didn't magically support some random $300 widget I was stupid enough to buy and which the manufacturer doesn't provide any help or support for on Linux."? I wouldn't say something like that though, because such a scenario would be retarded.

Re:any system? (1)

DeathElk (883654) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349759)

Your argument has no teeth, and highlights your own failings on this topic. If you drop $300 on a device or peripheral without doing a little homework to find out whether it is supported by OS of choice, then you have no-one to blame but yourself. There is unlikely to ever be global cross platform support between all digital hardware and software, so pre-purchase research is essential in all tech purchase situations.


Re:any system? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19349503)

Never seen Knoppix in action?

Not One, But Two Urine Refs In The Name - gg! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19348899)

Wiz, Pee?

That's almost as bad as naming all your software with an initial 'K'...

Design matters (2, Informative)

z0M6 (1103593) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348911)

It looks decent enough: http://www.turbolinux.com/products/wizpy/ [turbolinux.com]

Re:Design matters (1)

dave420 (699308) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349045)

It looks like every other iPod knock-off out there :)

Re:Design matters (1)

gerrysteele (927030) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349415)

And ipod look like a knock off of a technology that was around for years

Name matters (1)

monk.e.boy (1077985) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349243)

What a great Scrabble score you'd get.

It's up there with 'Kwyjibo' (google it ;)

monk.e.boy

But that's not all... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19348917)

It also doubles as a garage door opener!

Price (4, Informative)

CowboyBob500 (580695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348921)

4Gb for $278? No thanks.

Bob

Re:Price (1)

simong (32944) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348985)

You do have a DSP and an FM Radio in there for your 4Gb. It would be interesting to see if a homebrew one is possible *scratches chin*

Re:Price (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349215)

that was my first thought as well, 4g what a rip

Re:Price (1)

thebdj (768618) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349911)

1) Exchange rates our notoriously bad at reflecting the actual MSRP. I wouldn't be surprised to see this closer to $249.99 US. That said, most places will probably sell it for less. I doubt TurboLinux will be as bitchy about MSRP as Apple is with the iPod.
2) A 4 GB iPod Nano has an MSRP of $199 with a slightly smaller (.3" diagonal less) LCD (instead of OLED) display. Also, the Wizpy (ugh, bad name) also has a full blown Linux distro, so it is probably similar to carrying around DSL (damn small linux, in case you didn't know) on a USB thumb drive.
3) Other non-iPod Nano features: FM radio, Voice Recorder and Video support (unless someone can tell me otherwise).

In the end, wait to see what this actually sells for in the US.

I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods (2, Funny)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348943)

With the market share iPods enjoy it has to be a massive temptation to stick OSX on them and let users boot off them to help drive Mac hardware sales. It's not a strategy without risk but it potentially offers them a much greater share of the market very rapidly if they decide volume sales are the way to go.

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods (0, Troll)

dave420 (699308) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349025)

You'd have more chance getting a Windows system to do this, simply because it has better hardware support. OS X only supports Mac hardware, whereas Windows supports a whole slew of devices out of the box. Sure it's not everything, but it's a lot more than OS X and Linux.

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19349191)

Windows supports a pathetic amount of hardware. However, most hardware does support Windows through some awful drivers provided by the manufacturer. However, that's not available at install time unless you either manually integrate new drivers into the cd or use DriverPacks [driverpacks.net] .

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods (1)

VE3OGG (1034632) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349037)

Wouldn't this cut into Apple's hardware sales, the true Cash Cow for the company? What would be the incentive to distribute its OS on the iPod so that any schmuck can use OS X without Apple hardware. And if it could only be used with Apple hardware, isn't OSX already on it? I just don't see the benefit...

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods (1)

simong (32944) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349273)

I've been waiting for the mythical OS X for PC since the Intel move was announced, but the way in which the iPhone has been released has made it less likely again. Hardware is one of Apple's revenue streams, and they can pretty much define what components go in that hardware, and can therefore build OS X to support those components. A white box OS X would have to support a wider range of hardware than the current lines (although I wouldn't be surprised if OS X supports what is generally currently available in dual core laptops, for example), and as OS X should Just Work, there is no space for any hacking for that £15 Chinese USB wireless dongle, just as there is no space for user apps in OS X on the iPhone. So it isn't going to happen soon.

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods (1)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349407)

Wouldn't this cut into Apple's hardware sales, the true Cash Cow for the company?
Cash cow for how much longer though? iPod/itunes/iPhone/iTV are expected to bring in the cash now. Maybe you missed them dropping the 'Computer' recently. But its a valid point, can they make more charging for OSX on an iPod than possible drops in hardware sales.

What would be the incentive to distribute its OS on the iPod so that any schmuck can use OS X without Apple hardware.
Because every schmuck has an iPod and it already has credibility as a quality product. If Apple can make a decent implementation people will buy Macs for the full experience. Obviously this is not totally straightforward and as I said, there are risks. Apple has little experience with most manufacturers so there is a lot of work to be done.

And if it could only be used with Apple hardware, isn't OSX already on it? I just don't see the benefit...
The benefit is to reach a much broader market who would pay a little extra for their iPod with OSX that ran on generic hardware which they then replace with a Mac. Its an attractive proposition for users and they shift so many units the potential rewards from software sales alone are huge, particularly now with people reluctant to upgrade to Vista. God knows the market is gagging for a convenient alternative and Apple have a large existing customer base and a delivery system. Get it to work and stick it on iTunes as an update or option and watch all the downloads.

Of course it could backfire on them and damage the brand name. Maybe Apple feel small market share and high margins should continue to be their strategy, but really they were only ticking over until the iPod sales kicked in. They currently have no financial need to do this but I would be surprised if it's something they have not at least considered.

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods (3, Insightful)

VE3OGG (1034632) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349725)

Cash cow for how much longer though? iPod/itunes/iPhone/iTV are expected to bring in the cash now.
Well iTunes still doesn't make Apple much money last I heard, the iPhone has yet to be released, so really there is no idea whether it will be a hit or not, only speculation, and the iTV has widely been seen with lackluster (probably one of the reasons Apple is trying to push the iPhone, to cover up for the iTV. The only solid cash Apple is seeing is from the iPod (which is, no doubt, considerable.

Because every schmuck has an iPod and it already has credibility as a quality product. If Apple can make a decent implementation people will buy Macs for the full experience.
I don't think that means what you think it means For Apple to have a qualified product, it would need a helluva lot of drivers written up. I would hazard a guess and say that Apple products (where the drivers are written by Apple and not a third party) have far fewer drivers available than Linux, and even Linux is problematic on hardware. Not to mention, most people are morons when it comes to technology -- if their iPod runs Mac OS X (and think of the sheer number of people that would run it), and it doesn't suck (which I am not convinced of, see: drivers) then there would be no incentive because it doesn't suck. If it did suck, then again there would be no desire to upgrade and it would sully the Apple brand.

Besides, if Apple was going to do something like this, it would be far more beneficial (although stupid, IMHO) to release it as a DVD-install like Windows. To compensate for a lack of Apple hardware, they would probably be charging $150 USD for it -- now figure that if it went the way you are proposing, that would be $150 USD on top of the iPod price, and there is still no guarantee that they'd switch. At least if they are buying the software (and let's face it, most people just take whatever is pre-installed on the system) they might consider buying hardware at the same time.

I see it now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19349533)

Plugs in iPod -> Windows Update comes along -> restart -> God dammit M$ have changed everything around again!

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods (1)

caffeine_high (974351) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349571)

I hope you are not holding your breath waiting for this ;-)

hardware support (1)

sentientbrendan (316150) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349787)

they'd run into a ton of hardware support issues... the range of computers that osx will run on right now is pretty minimal. If they ever sold generic x86 they'd probably be selling it in partnership with dell or some "apple clone" manufacturer.

Besides, with apple's brand they really wouldn't need that kind of marketing.

Mandetory (0, Offtopic)

quakehead3 (988738) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348973)

Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of these!

The major problem I see here... (2, Interesting)

dteichman2 (841599) | more than 7 years ago | (#19348981)

Of the 4 GB, 1.2 is for the Linux stuff. This leaves you with 2.8 GB of space. That's not very much for a $300 (rounded) media player. At least give this thing a couple SD expansion slots or something!

Re:The major problem I see here... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19349177)

According to engadget, [engadget.com] there's a version with a SD expansion slot in the works.

"Wizpy"? That's like Wii times two, right? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19349051)

Nintendo had a great success with a game console whose name sounds like a word for urination.

So TurboLinux now comes out with a device whose name sounds like two words for urination.

Re:"Wizpy"? That's like Wii times two, right? (1)

PrescriptionWarning (932687) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350289)

I guess sex sells right... well if you're R. Kelly these would sell

for the rest of us they should just call it the EjacuBox

Can this be used to remove spyware? (4, Interesting)

kahei (466208) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349167)


Is it possible for a device like this to circumvent XP to the point where it can be used to delete files/kill processes that are being protected by freindly spyware processes?

I've been confronted by several XP machines that have spyware which can pretty much never be removed within XP, but which also don't run Knoppix or other 'lite' linux distros. Unless they happen to have a floppy drive for a DOS boot disk, it's a major pain removing spyware.

A Linux USB stick might help, depending on how it's implemented...

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware? (1)

the unbeliever (201915) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349217)

I haven't run into the spyware yet that the adaware/spybot/cwshredder combo won't fix, when you run the aforementioned in safe mode.

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware? (1)

FST777 (913657) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349283)

You're lucky. I have. External booting (LiveCD, USB) is then the answer. BartsPE is nice, Knoppix can do the trick too, if you know where to look.

With the right tools, this gadget might be helpfull. But a thumbdrive loaded with Linux is just as handy, and less costly.

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware? (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349361)

if you can install the ntfs write driver support then yes, you can do surgery on XP. you essentually have root [admin] powers when you use a live cd or likely the wizpy so you can do just about anything- including accidentally crippling XP. even better though would be just to extract what you need, nuke XP and install linux from the thing like a live cd :)

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19349397)

eh forget that last line... /. doesnt like jk between carrots...

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware? (2, Informative)

an.echte.trilingue (1063180) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349597)

I am not sure that I would call knoppix a lite distro. SLAX [slax.org] really is lite, and it has a subproject devoted to USB stick installs, although AFAIK nobody sells it like that.

It also has a bunch of tools devoted to security, but IMHO reinstalling XP from your system restore disks is easier and usually faster and more reliable than trying to "clean" a compromised PC.

Take care,
-mat

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware? (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350447)

I am not sure that I would call knoppix a lite distro. SLAX really is lite

I'm not sure that SLAX really is a "lite" distro. I have a blank piece of paper and a pen thats a bit liter, but it takes a while to compile.

iPOD wanna be = wizpy = iPhone (2G) (1)

dcnarad (945778) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349479)

With VOIP, E-mail, browser, office and radio, this sounds more like a iPhone all they need to put in this is a larger screen and 3G mobile network capability and it will become iPhone 2nd Generation killer

Re:iPOD wanna be = wizpy = iPhone (2G) (1)

gripen40k (957933) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350769)

I think you are confused; the voip, email, browser, and office tools only work when you boot up from a PC using the wizpy. You can't use the apps without a PC handy.

Is this really the right platform? (1)

SomethingGeneric (860744) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349619)

If their goal really is to make Linux available to the curious masses, is this the right platform? In my opinion, it would be better to make such a push on a platform people almost everyone is comfortable on, the PC. Why haven't we seen a big push through the various media platforms to make Linux visible? I would love to see things like live CDs shipped with mainstream magazines, a few commercials, CD distribution in retail stores etc. As for the device itself, I agree with previous posts about too little storage. If the device doesn't have slots for external flash memory it is useless to me.

FAIL (1)

originalnih (709470) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349773)

Does nobody who uses Linux understand marketing? How can you have an article about a portable media player WITHOUT ANY FUCKING PICTURES?

Complete and utter failure. Stop making such a big deal over each little cutesy change to your OSes and start making them a way of life. You should expect the best, not beg for it.

Wizpy vs. Foleo - a Linux marketing lesson (1)

Zigurd (3528) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349907)

This is a great illustration of how to use Linux correctly in creating a commercial product. That is, not just correctly license-wise, but in getting the most market benefit out of using Linux. Wizpy offers power users and opinion leaders a useful, attractive, and powerful tool. Surely a lot of Wizpys will be sold to this specific audience, and that will give Wizpy a leg up on all the other contenders in the media player business.

Or, look at it this way: When someone asks "Why buy a Wizpy?" there is a specific answer. SanDisk's and Creative's players are nice, too. But what is the answer to "Why buy a SanDisk, or a Creative?"

In contrast, Palm's Foleo is a huge missed opportunity. It runs Linux, but only incidentally, and only in service to a weird product formulation that manages to subtract value from what could have been a nifty Linux subnotebook. Even on blogs that generally welcome new Linux-based products, the questions about Foleo is "Why does this even exist?"

There's nothing magic here (1)

ethernode (1049028) | more than 7 years ago | (#19349935)

I just wanted to point out: why does nobody else provide this? A separate bootable partition can be added to (almost) any mass storage device and boot on (almost) any (modern) computer. There's no magic in here (just a LiveUSB distro), so why is this device presented as a revolution ? The same will come within OpenMoko, discussion is open: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:LiveUSB_dis tro [openmoko.org]

Two opponents at once? (1)

BecomingLumberg (949374) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350067)

So, let me get this right. In order to promote Linux (and defeat MS at their game) we first have to sell a whole bunch of these digital media players (and thus defeat Apple at their game)?

Well, that will be easy.

Always FM, never DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting) (2, Insightful)

deragon (112986) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350461)

Ugh... Why is it so hard to find DAB devices? I want DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting) on my radios along with FM... They still build radios with cassette players, but no DAB. Nobody cares about cassette players anymore but people would love DAB if it was available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_broadca sting [wikipedia.org]
http://www.cab-acr.ca/drri/index.shtm [cab-acr.ca]

As always GREAT Name! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19350557)

"Would you like to listen to my whizz-pee?"

"Why yes hon, yes I would." (kick in the groin)

Early Adapters? (1)

Snowgen (586732) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350607)

It originally launched in Japan, where TurboLinux marketed it to 'early adopters who are curious about using Linux but either don't want to or can't install the operating system.'

TurboLinux was introduced in 1992; that's 15 years ago. What bizarre definition of early adapter includes those jumping on the bandwagon 15 years later?

Did I miss something? (1)

theTrueMikeBrown (1109161) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350851)

or, did someone already welcome them as overlords?

Let me just say, I'm all for working in those underground sugar caves.
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