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New AACS Fix Hacked in a Day

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the oh-day-warr-ez dept.

Hardware Hacking 362

VincenzoRomano writes "ArsTechnica has just published an update to the neverending story about copy protection used in HD DVD and Blu-ray discs and hacker efforts against it. From the article: 'The ongoing war between content producers and hackers over the AACS copy protection used in HD DVD and Blu-ray discs produced yet another skirmish last week, and as has been the case as of late, the hackers came out on top. The hacker BtCB posted the new decryption key for AACS on the Freedom to Tinker web site, just one day after the AACS Licensing Authority (AACS LA) issued the key.' The article proposes a simple description of the protection schema and a brief look back at how the cracks have slowly chipped away at its effectiveness. It seems it'll be a long way to an effective solution ... if any. One could also argue whether all that money spent by the industry in this race will be worth the results and how long it would take for a return on investment."

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If it's viewable, it's hackable (5, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350635)

Blu-ray discs with a further layer of copy protection called BD+ are rumored to be nearing delivery

You know, they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. Somewhere I picture entertainment execs, having been sold a big and expensive line of B.S. by the firm that developed BD+ (just as they had been sold the exact same line by the companies that developed CSS and AACS), sitting in some board room saying "Don't worry, THIS time it's going to work!" They just don't get it. If it's viewable, it's hackable--period.

Re:If it's viewable, it's hackable (4, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350799)

You're not looking far enough down the road to where this all leads. Hell, you're not even looking back on the road we've all be travelling where all of this is concerned. They know there is no knot that cannot be untied. What they are winning is the sympathy of lawmakers who are increasingly adding to the penaties of copyright infringement, writing new laws around the globe and generally extending copyright indefinitely. It's the quicksand they have us trapped in that they are after. The more people resist, the more legislative backing they receive. How long before whistling a tune as you walk down the street will get you arrested?

Music [and the arts] may have charms that will soothe the savage beasts in all of us, but these people want you to pay for the remedy and will do anything to make sure you do!

Re:If it's viewable, it's hackable (3, Insightful)

AlHunt (982887) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351247)

Honestly, consumers just need to start voting with their dollars - don't buy copy-protected DVDs, don't buy CDs until RIAA knocks off intimidating people, don't patronize lawsuit-happy companies.

The bottom line is that Joe Average just doesn't mind being pushed around as long as he's comfortable. Very discouraging for the future of free will, independent thinking, privacy, security, liberty and other non-socialist, non-communist ideals in the USA.

Re:If it's viewable, it's hackable (5, Insightful)

c00rdb (945666) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351399)

Except the less you buy, the more the industry claims that those losses are due to piracy. It's a never ending cycle.

Re:If it's viewable, it's hackable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19351371)

When you pay a whore for her services and she does what you want, it's not out of sympathy. Don't kid yourself, they are selling other people's freedom because they're long on aspirations short on talent.

Re:If it's viewable, it's hackable (2, Insightful)

z0M6 (1103593) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351617)

How long before whistling a tune as you walk down the street will get you arrested? Seriously, if you (as in all of us really) let that happen, then you deserve it.

Re:If it's viewable, it's hackable (5, Informative)

FauxPasIII (75900) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350925)

> You know, they say the definition of insanity is doing the
> same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

And Bartcop's second law [bartcop.com] says that if someone makes a "mistake" that makes them a whole heap of money, then they will make the same "mistake" again and again and again. They keep making new protection scheme revisions, the content providers keep buying in and hardware manufacturers keep upgrading.

These protection schemes aren't a failure as you seem to think. They're accomplishing exactly what they're intended for.

Re:If it's viewable, it's hackable (3, Insightful)

alienw (585907) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351261)

Actually, there hasn't been an actual hack yet. These "hacks" are what the key revocation procedure is intended for. It isn't like DeCSS, where knowing the algorithm was enough to bruteforce thousands of keys. If the AACS LA wanted to, they could stop giving out new keys to software-only players and stop this type of hacking in its tracks.

Re:If it's viewable, it's hackable (5, Interesting)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351675)

Well, you're right that the key-revocation scheme was designed to deal with this, however where the problem lies is in certain assumptions that the people designing the revocation system made.

I don't think they ever thought that the keys would get compromised this quickly. The AACSLA is fighting an asymmetric war. It takes them, what, about six months to revoke a key? Maybe they could get that down to a few months, but it's still going to be difficult. They have to realize that a key is compromised, decide to revoke it, make up a new MKB, master a new disc, send that disc master to Taiwan or China for pressing, and import and distribute the new disc. There's only a certain amount that a process like that can be expedited by.

The revocation scheme was designed to deal with insecure players, basically as a one-off process. Player gets compromised? Revoke it. It's not getting them any security in its current state. Right now, they revoke existing key. New key is compromised after one day in circulation. They begin revoking it. Six months later, they revoke new key. Rinse. Repeat. What's the steady state of this system? The hackers win, because at any given time, they probably have the keys to all the extant discs.

Now, you do bring up an interesting point about blocking software players, and just eliminating them altogether. Setting aside the problems this would cause with the likes of Microsoft and other players heavily invested in the concept of HTPCs, it might slow things down. However, I don't think there's any reason to think that they keys can't be extracted from the hardware -- that's just too good of a technical challenge to pass up. And again, if the rate at which keys get compromised is much, much faster than the rate at which compromised keys can be revoked, then the AACS loses control.

Re:If it's viewable, it's hackable (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351513)

Simple answer: don't make it viewable, only processable. Bury it in the CPU itself. Remove all JTAG interfaces. Legislate the design of all new CPUs. Ban imports that don't meet the standards. Nothing's wholly impossible to get out, but if you make it expensive and take long enough, you can suppress it that much more easily. The tech industry has shown a complete willingness to bend over and say "deeper" this whole time, so don't think it can't happen.

In addition. (3, Insightful)

pavon (30274) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351591)

To add to erroneus's nonerroneus post, the main thing that they get out of DRM and the DMCA is the ability to dictate exactly what every electronic media device in this country can and cannot do. DVD burners are becoming as common as CD burners, but burning DVDs for your friend is not as common as burning CDs as because you cannot legally purchase software to do so. At the same time it hurts customers (especially ones with young kids) who cannot legitimately backup their DVDs. You cannot copy videos from DVDs onto portable media players, because the companies that sell them are afraid of being sued. Only one company that I know of has prevailed in court over something like this, and they had were sued despite having copy-protection mechanisms built into their device. They want you to buy multiple copies of your videos because that makes them more money.

And it has been working. The number of people who practice wholesale piracy is and always has been fairly low - what scares them is that it might become more widespread if the general public were allowed access to technology which they might abuse. I don't think that is true, and I think it is fundamentally wrong to put restrictions on an entire country just because you fear that some might abuse their freedoms, but that is where they are coming from, and in their eyes DRM has been successful in achieving that goal.

But the real heart of the issue is that they want control for its own sake - not just because they have specific things they want to enforce, but because they have been in control for so long and letting go of any of that frightens them. They don't know what the future holds, and so their reflex is to tighten their grip as much as possible.

Re:If it's viewable, it's hackable (2, Interesting)

kinglink (195330) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351625)

Exactly. Humans are analog creatures. We can't interpret digital signals in real time. Anything that is produced into a analogy copy will be capturable. Digital formats like Blue ray must be inevitably be converted into an analog form for our enjoyment. Trying to protect your product isn't going to change these facts. Want to sell more? Give us a reason to buy a new version of the product, and higher resolutions isn't selling it (uprezed DVDs still look amazing on my 50 inch TV).

45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2 (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19350647)

Just for the record.

Re:45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2 (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19351015)

"Just for the record." - by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01, @09:50AM

See how expert in the area of computer sciences the author of this "fine arstechnica article" (& his mere recycled regurgitations of the reporting of others) is (not) alongside his arstechnica friends Jarrett DeAngelis & Jay Little:

http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?art icleid=41095&cpage=195#feedbackAnchor [windowsitpro.com]

That was where Jeremy Reimer was caught impersonating others on his own website, & was additionally found guilty of email harassment (plus libellously writing libellous songs and edited photos of someone they have been bothering for years online like internet psycho stalkers as well), just because he and his arstechnica friends lost a technical debate, badly!

Jeremy Reimer and his friend Jay Little also had their websites removed by their hosting providers (for such poor antics).

Jeremy Reimer doesn't even have a degree, or even an A+ certification, or years of professional experience in the arena of working directly in the computer sciences. Anyone can write what he did reporting the findings of others, as it takes no brains to read what others wrote and regurgitate it @ arstechnica.


Do you expect us to listen to "fake-it-till-you-make-it" Reimer? I won't, the guy's a fool. Find better articles & sources to report on & from slashdot: Reimer is nothing more than a fake.

Re:45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2 (2, Funny)

aj50 (789101) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351519)

Aww, man. Now I'll have to buy another rubber stamp...

Bad system (1, Insightful)

FST (766202) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350655)

The reason the current system will fail is because they are selling plastic and keys, and pretending they are selling culture. But they don't own the culture, except by a legal loophole, and the lesson is... the true owners of the culture, the people, will in the end will prevail.

Re:Bad system (5, Insightful)

minginqunt (225413) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350751)

But, you know, most of these hackers aren't even doing this because they desperately want to watch Pirates of the Opening Weekend IV: At Wits End, since most people have better things to do than watch Kiera Knightley and Orloomdo Bland do their best dining furniture impression.

No, these guys break AACS simply because it's _there_, and the movie industry *dared* them to do it.

And you know what? By making it more complicated than DeCSS, they made BD+ and AACS simply become *even more fun* to hack.

These guys should befriend some supply-side economists to learn about incentives and how they work.

Re:Bad system (4, Insightful)

BosstonesOwn (794949) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350893)

Or how about simply stop trying to protect "content" I paid for and let me use it as I see fit.

This "war on piracy" crap has to stop , all it is doing is creating a false market for companies to sell them content management (and I use the term loosely) systems.

They need to rally sit back and look at the hacks that are widely available. Satellite , software , hell even bank cards. They need to either make the system more expensive to break , so there is no point in cracking it , but just buying the disc or they need to embrace what the people want.

Since at this point you are driving your customers away I would choose the second option , don't DRM the discs and let people use the content they paid for. Why make them pay 3 times for the same content, that is just basic bad business and money mongering.

Re:Bad system (2, Insightful)

OldeTimeGeek (725417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351205)

Since at this point you are driving your customers away I would choose the second option

When the customers that they're potentially driving away are a very small part of the overall base, why should they care?

The DVDs that that majority of people buy will never be used anywhere but in their DVD player. It'll work just fine in their home computer too - all DRM breaks is the ability to make copies, something that most people don't do. If the DRM doesn't break their player in some way, which it generally doesn't, they will never know no even care that it is there.

And why should they? These people aren't stupid, it's just that the encoding that is put on the disks is completely transparent to them and largely affects their ability to play the disks in not at all.

Re:Bad system (1)

Ash Vince (602485) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351165)

I wish I had some points for this. Funny and insightful in the same post.

The problem is that the people who are paying these systems know plenty of economists, but they only seem to consider the financial side of things. They dont seem to recognise that alot of people value other things above money. Personally I value things like achievement and self worth above the state of my bank balance.

Given a choice between a high paying job which I found dull (like being an executive) and doing something I enjoy I know what I would choose.

Blank Stare (2, Insightful)

WED Fan (911325) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350815)

The reason the current system will fail is because they are selling plastic and keys, and pretending they are selling culture. But they don't own the culture, except by a legal loophole, and the lesson is... the true owners of the culture, the people, will in the end will prevail.

I'm sure you thought that was deep, but dude, put down the stick, exhale, and re-read your lines.

Re:Blank Stare (5, Interesting)

notque (636838) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351287)

I'm sure you thought that was deep, but dude, put down the stick, exhale, and re-read your lines.

There isn't anything deep about it, it just happens to be true.

You know, like this...

            The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.
            We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.
            Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet.
            They govern us by their qualities of natural leadership, their ability to supply needed ideas and by their key position in the social structure. Whatever attitude one chooses to take toward this condition, it remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons--a trifling fraction of our hundred and twenty million--who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.

By the Creator of the Public Relations Industry, and Nephew of Sigmund Freud, Mr. Edward Bernays

Re:Bad system (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19350901)

The reason the current system will fail is because they are selling plastic and keys, and pretending they are selling culture. But they don't own the culture, except by a legal loophole, and the lesson is... the true owners of the culture, the people, will in the end will prevail.

But what does AACS have to do with yogurt?

my ars (1)

BUTT-H34D (840273) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350667)

Huh huh. Ars technica. Heh heh.

Haiku? (4, Funny)

packetmon (977047) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350669)

the site posted the 128-bit key as a method of decrypting a small haiku that they placed on the same page, noting that it just might accidentally (wink, wink) be the same key that will decrypt new high-definition discs as well

I couldn't find that Haiku... Was it:

Broken it is now
Silly little execs
More Free DVD's

Re:Haiku? (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350709)

Now they need to sue the AACS LA for distributing a device to circumvent their encryption.

Re:Haiku? (2, Funny)

theTrueMikeBrown (1109161) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350725)

perhaps: I am so clever My password cannot be guessed... Inconceivable!

Re:Haiku? (1)

packetmon (977047) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350765)

was sarcasm ... *rolls eyes* [NOTE: this slashdot-thread eye rolling is patented under the GPLv3]

Is it worth their ROI? (2, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350701)

One could also argue whether all that money spent by the industry in this race will be worth the results and how long it would take for a return on investment.
Of course it will be worth their effort. With more "criminal acts" against their technology, they will win further legislation around the world criminalizing any resistance to their business model. In the end, resist their business model and lose your freedom. (Why does that somehow make me think of the east india company?)

Re:Is it worth their ROI? (2, Insightful)

radtea (464814) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351553)

Why does that somehow make me think of the east india company?

Because the East India Company made a lot of money for a while and then went into decline and ultimately failed due to the huge cost of trying to maintain control of the areas it had attempted unsuccessfully to monopolize?

At least the Company's business model didn't violate the laws of nature, which is more than can be said for the studios.

Bits can be copied. Basing your business on the belief that some bits can't be copied, or that some bits can even be made quite hard to copy, is like basing your business on the belief that some mass can be made to have just a little bit less inertia than it normally would.

Perpetual motion machines are the only thing that is unpatentable because they cannot work. We will eventually see the time come when DRM systems are unpatentable for exactly the same reason.

It's painful to watch... (5, Insightful)

tygerstripes (832644) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350719)

My cat does this with spiders. Once he's got one of the hairy buggers pinned, he just sits there and waits for it to make a dash for "freedom". Then he chews another leg off it, and goes back to waiting.
Whenever I see this happen, I'm torn between horror at the grisly spectacle of such torture, and the guilty pleasure of seeing something I hate being toyed with so cruelly. If I can live with it in my own home, I can live with it in the media market...

Re:It's painful to watch... (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350755)

My cat does this with spiders. Once he's got one of the hairy buggers pinned, he just sits there and waits for it to make a dash for "freedom". Then he chews another leg off it, and goes back to waiting. Whenever I see this happen, I'm torn between horror at the grisly spectacle of such torture, and the guilty pleasure of seeing something I hate being toyed with so cruelly.
Let's hope he never comes across a Black Widow then.

Re:It's painful to watch... (1)

KillerBob (217953) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350859)

Black Widow spiders are tiny. Usually less than 1/2 an inch long with very short legs. Nowhere near large enough for a cat to chew the leg off. The GF is probably talking about some of the larger spiders you see around, like dock spiders. Harmless things, but they grow to as much as 6" long around here, and other species in the family can get bigger.

Re:It's painful to watch... (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351421)

"Harmless things,"

I'm a fly you insensitive clod

Re:It's painful to watch... (2, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351533)

something I hate being toyed with so cruelly

Totally OT, but OOC, why the hate for spiders? Personally, I love the little buggers. They eat flies and other pests, and otherwise mind their own business. Sounds like a good deal to me...

The other side of the coin (5, Insightful)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350741)

From the summary:

One could also argue whether all that money spent by the industry in this race will be worth the results and how long it would take for a return on investment."

Indeed...one could argue that a company would better serve its shareholders and its long term interests by eliminating copy protection completely. After all, at this stage of the game, anyone who wants a pirated copy can either make it themselves, or knows some techie guy who can. Eliminating all copy protection would save money otherwise pissed away on ineffective measures that only serve to annoy legitimate users, and would build a measure of good will and consumer loyalty that is worth more than anything deterring piracy could realize.

Re:The other side of the coin (5, Insightful)

hal2814 (725639) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350905)

"...anyone who wants a pirated copy..." (emphasis mine)

Aha, but that's the key. Most people don't necessarily want a pirated copy. They just want a copy. If the copy protection can be difficult enough to get around to not make it worth the average person's time, then they won't bother getting a pirated version. People who make a conscious effort to pirate the material cannot be stopped, but if you can make it difficult enough to pirate nobody else will bother. I think the movie industry massively failed in that regard with DVDs. It became far too easy to pirate them. I also think they'll also fail here, but I do see why they keep trying. If they can just make it hard enough, most people won't bother.

Re:The other side of the coin (1)

jonnythan (79727) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351311)

Man, the pirated copies are better than the retail copies.

I want pirated copies.

Re:The other side of the coin (2, Informative)

UF00 (1099469) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351323)

The only thing I disagree with is that it's trivial to copy DVDs. Even the least technically savvy person can put a music CD into their computer and press the Copy Disc button that's built in to the operating system now. DVDs are more difficult, and the new breed of discs seem to be harder to copy still (not that I have a high def drive to say for sure, nor the desire to support the anti-consumer technology).

AACS won't stop actual piracy, but even CSS stops (or slows) casual playground/sneakernet piracy, so in that regard I think the actions of the AACS-LA are appropriate. People talk about the millions of dollars and years of time to develop the system that is broken in hours for free, but if it keeps 80% of the movie buying population from switching to the mindset that "movies are free like music is" then a cost/benefit analysis will probably say to implement the technology.

In any case, the aftermath is fun to watch.

Re:The other side of the coin (1)

LordSnooty (853791) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351367)

But as long as there are unencrypted copies on the Internet, there'll be people savvy enough to download & dump them to disk, which they can then hand round to their non-savvy friends.

A part of development (1)

AltGrendel (175092) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350749)

This could be deliberate in an effort to create a stronger DRM package by the Entertainment industry.

Like it is actually a standard part of the development life cycle for DRM. Kind of a "throw it to the wolves and see how long it lasts" mentality. Then it's back to the drawing board to try again.

NIGGERS! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19350761)

That is all.

DRM == FRAUD (4, Interesting)

Concern (819622) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350773)

When will the legal system in this country catch on to the fact that DRM is a garden variety fraud, perpetrated by shady "engineers" on gullible content producers?

There has never been a working DRM system in the history of mankind. There will very likely never be a working DRM system. And I only say "very likely" because the rest of history is a very long time - but it is impossible to imagine how any such system can be built in the future, regardless of technological progress.

The roster of DRM vendors is a list of failed charlatans, with a track record of consumer ire, ruined reputations (the vendors' own, and their customers), legal liability (remember Sony?), and of course, enormous costs for their customers - their true victims.

I wonder if the spectacle of AACS' failure will finally begin to wake them to the fact that no one can sell DRM, because it doesn't exist - and the people who claim it does are no better than those selling magic weight loss via email spam.

Re:DRM == FRAUD (2, Insightful)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350903)

Other things there's never been a working system of:

Antigravity.
Perpetual Motion.
Sharks with Frickin Lasers on their heads.
Space Flight. -- Wait, we did that one.
Pocket Computers. -- No, sorry, that one too.

Seriously, just because it's never worked before is -not- proof that it never will. There's -plenty- of reasons, but this is -not- one of them.

To companies, copy protection is -not- completely useless, so we'll never see content completely free from DRM. Expensive DRM is pointless, though, as it provides nothing extra.

Why isn't it completely useless? Because their work is covered under additional laws other than just copyright. Cheap vs Expensive DRM makes no difference here, the law doesn't differentiate.

Re:DRM == FRAUD (2, Interesting)

ravenshrike (808508) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351479)

You could make a DRM system work, but you would have to completely black box the media and player, and booby-trap it so when the case was cracked it would fry the DRM components. Even then it could theorectically still be done. But with an industry-wide standard this CANNOT be done. And therefore truly effective DRM will not be possible for a very long time, if ever.

Re:DRM == FRAUD (1)

HoosierPeschke (887362) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351529)

<snip>

the law doesn't differentiate
</snip>
yet...

Re:DRM == FRAUD (1)

ender- (42944) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351047)

I wonder if the spectacle of AACS' failure will finally begin to wake them to the fact that no one can sell DRM, because it doesn't exist - and the people who claim it does are no better than those selling magic weight loss via email spam.

You are making a huge assumption that AACS was actively sold to the MPAA as a 'this will prevent piracy' option. I'm betting that it was not. Even if it was advertised as such, I don't think the MPAA is stupid enough to believe that it is. They knew it would be circumvented, although I'm sure they hoped it would take a bit longer than it has.
At most, I'm guessing the MPAA sees AACS as a deterrent. In the grand scheme of MPAA finances, I'm sure it didn't cost very much to develop and implement AACS, in the hopes that the "difficulty" and potential legal ramifications would stop just enough acts of piracy by Joe Schmoe. For them it's a small financial gamble to maybe sell a few more copies of the movie of the day.

Unfortunately, I think they are mistaken. I'd probably be buying more HD-DVD movies if it were easier [and legal] for me to rip them to a hard drive to play through my Xbox360.

Re:DRM == FRAUD (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351381)

Define "working system". The point of DRM is not to make copying impossible, or even very difficult, but to make it difficult *enough* and leave *enough* of a trail for law enforcement, that profit margins on the production of the content remain competitive with that in other industries. And it mostly seems to accomplish that.

Neverending story, eh? (3, Funny)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350777)

This reminds me of a famous song... [wikipedia.org] let's see what we can do with it.

*ahem* *ahem*

Turn around
Look at what you see
In their face
The keyword of your dreams
Make believe they're everywhere
Just encrypted in the lines
Written on the DVD's
Is the answer to our never ending story
ah ah ah

See the cracks
In their fantasy
crush their dream
show them what they'll be
Codes that keep their secrets
Will unfold behind a yarr
zero nine eff nine one one...
Is the answer to our never ending story
ah ah ah

Show no fear
For they may fade away
In your hands
The birth of a new age
Codes that keep their secrets
Will unfold behind a yarr
zero nine eff nine one one...
Is the answer to our never ending story...
ah ah ah
Never ending story...
ah ah ah
Never ending story.

Re:Neverending story, eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19351283)

What The Filk?

Maybe I'm in the minority, but... (4, Insightful)

SkyMunky (249995) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350779)

I would have already bought an HD-DVD player had there not been DRM in place. If I knew I could make copies for myself, rip to a portable or my laptop easily, etc., I would already own an HD-DVD player an several movies for it. I guess the Industry doesn't take my demographic into account as it must be a minority, but surely there has to be some up-side to playing nice with consumers and letting us make copies/rips of their movies. I used to buy music, too, when I knew I could copy/mix/etc.
  Would they lose a sale here and there because somebody copies a movie for a friend/family/neighbor? Yes, of course. Are they going to anyway? Yes. But...are they losing sales because of DRM in place? I think lots.

Re:Maybe I'm in the minority, but... (2, Insightful)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350939)

eh, not really. You buy (I'd wager) dvds, and those have DRM.

Aside from the bad PR they get from displaying their greed, the only thing actually preventing sales is the format war itself.

Re:Maybe I'm in the minority, but... (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351189)

"You buy (I'd wager) dvds, and those have DRM."

No they don't.

OK, technically they have CSS, but it's so totally broken I don't even understand why they bother with it anymore.

As with the earlier poster, I would have bought a player and disks, but not until they're as 'open' as current DVDs. I have no desire to be forced to watch them the way the IP Barons want me to watch them, rather than the way I want to watch them; for example, the fucking stupid piracy ads on recent DVDs that are unskippable with a 'closed' player that sticks to official standards. I don't need to spend two minutes being told not to pirate disks every single time I put a disk I've paid for into a player... I've bought the fucking disk in the first place.

Re:Maybe I'm in the minority, but... (1)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351451)

sure CSS is broken...just as AACS is. GP is claiming that he won't buy blueray/hd unless it doesn't have DRM. DVD has DRM. CSS is broken. AACS is broken.

Thus my point - GP is inconsistent. DRM is clearly not stopping him from buying anything, as he buys (likely) DVDs.

Re:Maybe I'm in the minority, but... (2, Informative)

0123456 (636235) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351515)

"AACS is broken."

No it's not, because they'll release yet another key next week. People have to keep breaking it until the underlying algorithm is broken.

CSS, on the other hand, is totally, utterly and irrevocably broken.

Re:Maybe I'm in the minority, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19351299)

You buy (I'd wager) dvds, and those have DRM.

Actually they don't. There es nothing that manages restrictions since there are no (effective) restrictions to be managed. My linux box plays DVDs just fine. That is not true for BD and HD-DVD.

Re:Maybe I'm in the minority, but... (1)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351427)

think about what you're saying. Whether something is effective or not is clearly not an issue; GP isn't currently buying blueray/hd, despite what is also ineffective DRM.

i've seen a few high-def vids online (1)

Adult film producer (866485) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350787)

available via your favourite local torrent website.. I never infringe copyright but here's what I've seen so far,

Fantastic.Four.2005.DVD5.720p.BluRay.x264.PROPER-P ROGRESS
Crank.2006.720p.DVD5.BluRay.x264-SEPTiC
Reservoir.Dogs.1992.DVD5.720p.BluRay.x264-REVEiLLE

More to come very soon..

Re:i've seen a few high-def vids online (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19350895)

Hmm. Looks like people are dropping the resolution on them to fit on a single-layer DVD (disc source reference says 1080p), so already we're getting "lossy" copies, and not exact duplicates. Interesting.

Re:i've seen a few high-def vids online (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19351279)

Looks like people are dropping the resolution on them to fit on a single-layer DVD (disc source reference says 1080p), so already we're getting "lossy" copies, and not exact duplicates.

The lossless copy would be around 15-20GB and would be impractical for sharing over bittorrent. Resizing to 720p helps decrease the filesize down to a single 4.37GB DVD, but more importantly, makes the movie playable on an average computer. If the movie was left at 1080p and re-encoded with h264, it would only be playable on the very high end processors.

Re:i've seen a few high-def vids online (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19351461)

Oh, understood. Basically, it shows that general purpose computing (hardware/network) isn't yet up to the task of rampantly distributing the full-resolution product, despite the shrill cries of the media producers. [Arguments as to the potential quality loss between 1080p and 720p can be left to the videophiles]

(It also speaks to the price jump between DVD5 and DVD9/BD-R/HDDVD-R media)

I'm still surprised that there isn't at least one group of lunatics trying to torrent the full-resolution data, though.

Re:i've seen a few high-def vids online (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351473)

"Basically, it shows that general purpose computing (hardware/network) isn't yet up to the task of rampantly distributing the full-resolution product"

What's so difficult about downloading and playing 1080-line HD video on a PC with a half-decent broadband connection?

Re:i've seen a few high-def vids online (1)

LordPhantom (763327) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351139)

"Adult Film Producer"? I'm interested in your take on pirate pr0n.......

Re:i've seen a few high-def vids online (1)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351489)

Those aren't straight rips - 720p on a DVD5? They must have compressed the crap out of it.

If you're gonna get pirate stuff at least get the good stuff - the original material is 1080p/24 and takes up a few GB.

Simple solution (3, Insightful)

gr8_phk (621180) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350821)

If the MPAA want to protect their stuff they shouldn't license the decryption algorithms to PC implementations. You'd think they would have learned that with DVD. Don't put secret algorithms on widely available hardware with lots of debuggers and hacking tools. Duh.
This would slow down the crackers a LOT - but not entirely.

Re:Simple solution (1)

pavera (320634) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350921)

When DVD John hacked CSS wasn't it by taking apart a physical player? I thought he pulled apart an actual DVD player to do it, but maybe I heard wrong.

Re:Simple solution (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350987)

When DVD John hacked CSS wasn't it by taking apart a physical player? I thought he pulled apart an actual DVD player to do it, but maybe I heard wrong.

Nope. The keys were pulled from a software DVD player [wikipedia.org] . A similar (but slightly more difficult) method was used for the AACS keys.

Re:Simple solution (1)

hAckz0r (989977) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351353)

No, but somebody hacked a Xbox to read the HD-DVD keys. I bet that made Mr G very happy about the future prospects in negotiations with the MPAA to achieve world dominance. When will they learn that the whole concept of DRM is logically infeasible.


The actual purpose of DRM of course is to enforce their monopoly and price-fixing tactics. This scheme only works if the MPAA "contract" with the artists/producer is exclusive, iron clad, and has enough draconian clauses to keep the artist from profiting through multiple venues. Perhaps the real fix to the intentional "unusability" of DRM is to ignore the DRM itself and work instead on getting the artists better contract negotiations so the market has some real competition on the delivery end. Do that and DRM magically goes away through market forces and there will be a value based on the quality of the product. The artist themselves are the only justifiable monopoly, and they should be paid well for good material.

Re:Simple solution (1)

BoberFett (127537) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351507)

And lose the backing of the entire computer industry? Not likely. When trying to launch a new media format, these companies need all they help they can get to foist the thing on the public. Telling huge swaths of the tech industry they're not needed doesn't help.

It's still doing it's primary job (5, Interesting)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350841)

AACS does stop casual copying, but it hasn't prevented unencrypted HD content from being distributed over the Internet.

That's really what the content cabal are most interested in. Piracy of their content is a foregone conclusion. It's been happening for decades, and in some countries, almost the entire market for their content is based on counterfeit copies. They've long since priced their "losses" into the cost of their product.

What AACS (and CSS before it) is really about is enforcing the other forms of DRM they've implemented, like user-operation prohibition (preventing you from skipping the pointless FBI notice, company credits, and best/worst of all, advertising) and region coding. Note that neither of those DRM schemes have anything to do with piracy prevention - they're just another route for indirectly extracting revenue from the consumer, by force-feeding advertising or by exploiting the arbitrage created when they don't release their content simultaneously around the world.

Re:It's still doing it's primary job (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351099)

exploiting the arbitrage created when they don't release their content simultaneously around the world.

Part of this is because the translated / adapted versions aren't ready for release at the same time. Dialogue and clips tend to get changed & tweaked up until release such that there is little point in trying to do simultaneous translations because it would be a never-ending chase. The English version can be released right away, other languages might take half a year longer.

Re:It's still doing it's primary job (1)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351125)

Yeah. It's tough giving Captain Jack Sparrow an Aussie accent.

Re:It's still doing it's primary job (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351535)

Where did I say that it was the case ALL the time? Sometimes it is just stupid, but if they do any localization, it does take time, then it can't be released simultaneoulsly everywhere. ADR takes time.

So? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351583)

What if I'd be happy with the US-English version? What if I wanted to buy an Anime in the original Japanese version 'cause the translation is crappy at best anyway?

It's a given that translations take time. Ok, no problem, I don't care, gimme the original. Why can't I buy it? Because distributors get area protection so they can charge whatever they want, since there's no competition.

Global market appearantly isn't when it's in favor of the customer.

Re:It's still doing it's primary job (1)

mpapet (761907) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351195)

"Here Here!" It's refreshing to read someone who actually understands pricing models.

I think the previous limitations on DRM will slowly fade though. Right now it _has_ to carry the private key because most playback devices are off-line.

Once broadband is as common as television, TPM chips will be very cheap. By that time the media conglomerate execs _might_ figure out that PKI is the way to go. This also enables the media conglomerates to fully control the production of playback devices.

As another post so insightfully pointed out, the media conglomerates are using the cracks to justify ridiculous legislation.

Heard from an RIAA Studio exec ..... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19350863)

Studio Exec: [pointing to a screen with code on it] This is a crypto program, to, uh, you know, what we use on DVDs, but it's very, very special, because, if you can see...
Hacker: Yeah...
Studio Exec: [pointing to the parameters] ...the numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the screen: eleven, eleven, eleven, eleven...
Hacker: Oh, I see. And most crypto keys go up to ten?
Studio Exec: Exactly.
Hacker: Does that mean it's better? Is that any better?
Studio Exec: Well, it's one better, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most... most blokes, you know, will be coding at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up... you're on ten on your algorithm. Where can you go from there? Where?
Hacker: I don't know...
Studio Exec: ...nowhere! Exactly! What we do is if we need that extra... push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Hacker: Put it up to eleven.
Studio Exec: ...Eleven. Exactly. One better.
Hacker: Why don't you just make ten better, and make ten be the top... number, and make that algorithm a little better?
Studio Exec: [pause, blank look and snapping chewing gum] This goes to eleven.

Fifteen. It goes all the way to 15. (1)

giafly (926567) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351071)

Studio Exec: [pointing to the parameters] ...the numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the screen: eleven, eleven, eleven, eleven...
Hacker: Oh, I see. And most crypto keys go up to ten?
Studio Exec: Exactly.
That's why there are "F"s in: "45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2"

Perhaps the next version will go all the way to "Z".

Re:Fifteen. It goes all the way to 15. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19351185)

Alas, I could not easily weave a proper hex key into it without ruining the quote. I was hoping many people would assume that the key they had chosen was

"11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11"

as opposed to:

"10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10"

but that has to stay unsaid as well!

Mind you, key 1 above IS one better than key 2! Isn't it?

Re:Heard from an RIAA Studio exec ..... (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351629)

(*cue in DRM spin vendor)
And here we have an algorithm that goes up to SIXTEEN! You know, hexadecimal, all the way, a proven technology since the advent of the computer. Not ten, not eleven, we don't take little steps, ours goes up to 16 in a single big leap forwards to more protection!
Hacker: But still the same algorithm?
DRM vendor (*enthusiastic nod*): But up to 16!
Studio Exec: Brilliant! We buy!

dvd sales (4, Insightful)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350881)

I know this has been mentioned before a million times, but...have dvd sales really been hurt that bad by the encryption for dvd being broken years ago? Those that will rip, will find a way to rip. The rest will buy the blueray/hd dvds.

Unless the industry is wanting to try a dramatic price hike, which would cause those on and near the fence to rip too...?

Re:dvd sales (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351271)

Probably not. I didn't buy a DVD-ROM drive (or any other DVD reading mechanism) until there was decent DVD playback support for Linux.

Guess when I bought my Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive? When the first AACS crack came out, that's when. While so far it can only be used for copying (quite inefficient), it's a matter of time before this gets used for realtime playback on unlicensed systems like my Linux box.

Re:dvd sales (1)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351543)

I guess I'm one of the minority of people that watch DVDs on a TV instead of my computer, then. You are clearly the market force that drives the cost effectiveness of something. /sarcasm

Did you really answer my point? As a reminder: "have dvd sales really been hurt that bad by the encryption for dvd being broken years ago? Those that will rip, will find a way to rip."

The driving force of the market is not the guy who wants to watch a movie on his linux box, but the family that wants to watch a movie on their TV in the livingroom. Have dvd sales really been hurt by the breaking of CSS? Then what the fark are they diddling with AACS so much for?

They are only hurting the people who won't copy (2, Insightful)

thefinite (563510) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350937)

If I understand how the new AACS implementation will work, consumers with devices using it will need to install the new key every time it is released, if they want new movies to play. The stupidity of this is that people who want to copy a movie probably have no problem finding the new crack. No matter how often a new key comes out, within a day they can crack and copy.

The only people inconvenienced by this system are the people who just want to watch the friggin' movie they just bought! I shudder to think of how my mom would deal with the situation if she just bought a new blu-ray movie and found it wouldn't play because she doesn't have the latest key. I hope they give up on releasing new keys soon.

AACS asks for hacks (1)

Rastignac (1014569) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350945)

They chose a very bad name for this technology, indeed. ;)

Watch the news spread using Google (4, Interesting)

giafly (926567) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350973)

At the time of posting, this gives 973 results. Click the link [google.com] see how much further the news has spread.

Silent cheer for cracked DRM (3, Interesting)

raw-sewage (679226) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350979)

Does anyone else silently cheer whenever you read a headline about DRM being cracked?

I mean, I'm not an anarchist or cheering for piracy. I just think that DRM strips or at least greatly hinders fair use and artificially inflates the cost of media. The latter is particularly irksome: part of the cost of your CDs, DVDs, HD-DVDs, Blueray Discs is to pay for the research, development and deployment of DRM. I'm sure that's not a trivial cost.

The more I think about this, the more worked up I get: it's paying for features that nobody wants. We are literally paying more to get less.

Making personal copies of media, I believe, should be totally within our fair use rights. I know lots of people with young children who make copies of their DVDs. Their kids watch the DVDs over and over again, and their grubby little hands aren't well-suited for handling the somewhat fragile media. Solution: make a cheap copy of a DVD, and let the kids use that one. Likewise, I copy and encode all the DVD movies I own to my hard drive for a movie-on-demand system. I still own the DVD, so why can't I copy it? (Maybe I should thank the DRM pushers for trying to combat my laziness?)

Just out of curiosity... how big are HD-DVD and Blueray movies? Last I recall, the media sizes were 30 and 60 GB, respectively. Do most movies take up all that space? I mean (in my experience), most 480p DVD movies seem to average just under 9 GB (the full capacity of a dual-layer DVD).

Re:Silent cheer for cracked DRM (2, Insightful)

Magada (741361) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351163)

Does anyone else silently cheer whenever you read a headline about DRM being cracked?
Hell no. I cheer very loudly indeed.

Silent? (2, Funny)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351671)

Well, no, my coworkers just looked quite puzzled at my expression of joy. And sorry, Dave, I owe you a cleaning of that shirt.

(Note to self, don't drink coffee and read /.)

Okay... How do we use a crack? (1)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 7 years ago | (#19350997)

Now that multiple keys are out, how does someone legitimately use a key to view a HD disc on Linux? (Assuming I have a HD-DVD or Bluray drive, that is) Is there a special player or something?

(I would like to know so that I can decide if getting a player for my media center computer is worth it.)

DRM is futile (3, Informative)

pavera (320634) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351057)

We all know this, I just think its funny that these media execs can't figure it out. I will never forget a story I heard from Westwood Studios back before they were bought out by EA (96-97 timeframe). On Red Alert 2, they spent a large fraction of the budget of the game, had 4 PhD contractors come in, trying to build a DRM system that would keep people from copying the game. It was cracked within 10 minutes of release.

After that they vowed never to try to put DRM on a game ever again, it cost way too much, and it didn't do anything. Besides that they got people all the time filling out their registration cards saying "I bought this game after I played the hacked version and I liked it".

DRM hurts sales, it hurts acceptance of a system, and it is expensive and pointless to deploy.

That was quick (3, Funny)

dgr73 (1055610) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351079)

Usually userfriendly.org can run atleast a few strips poking fun at the inevitability of the crack before one is actually delivered. I guess in the future they should make a stock strip and replace the daily strip with it the second a new AACS fix is announced.

Then again, considering all those pre-release movies out there, I wonder when we'll start getting pre-fix cracks.

Nearing the end of the DRM fight. (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351175)

When CSS was first cracked it was the beginning of the end. With the latest cracks of AACS, we're nearing the end of the DRM battle. The content producers are pretty dumb, but if you beat them enough times eventually they'll learn.

My prediction is that this fight will wind up as a small footnote in the history of digital media. "In the late 90s through the 2000s content producers tried, and failed to protect digital content from being copied. Eventually they realized that providing easy paid access to content and extras was a far more effective means of ensuring people paid for content rather than freely exchanging it."

Isn't the title wrong? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19351243)

Considering that DRM media is fundamentally broken, shouldn't the title change from:
New AACS Fix Hacked in a Day
to
New AACS Hack Fixed in a Day

No argument whatsoever! (1)

dm0527 (975468) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351291)

One could also argue whether all that money spent by the industry in this race will be worth the results and how long it would take for a return on investment.

No. One absolutely can NOT argue. I can't believe that any rational, sane individual would look at this situation and come to the conclusion that it is worth spending even one THIN DIME on furthering this effort. Why, on God's green earth do these imbeciles believe that they can come out with something that no one can break? Are these people really that conceded and sport such a God complex that they somehow believe that their team of what, 10 developers maybe, versus THE ENTIRE WORLD are going to come out on top?

Who are these idiots? What we all need for a good laugh is a video of these guys being told time after time, day after day that their crap has been hacked yet again. It will certainly have diminishing results, but it should be a good laugh five or ten times and then also that final time when they come to the realization that they are, in fact, NEVER going to win. Look at my quote people who are doing this...I'm looking directly at you >:|

Pretty funny (2, Insightful)

gweihir (88907) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351391)

Personally I believe that as long as they allow software players, they do not have a chance to lock this down. Hardware-only players, on the other hand, will be expensive and are currently not available. And then it will still be possible to record the movie, just a little more expensive and using some hardware-hacking. Nothing that a bright EE student could not do in 2-3 months of spare time....

Will be interesting to see whether they learn that this is not the way before or after ther business will have entirely gone away.

crapflooding with keys (3, Interesting)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351467)

We all know how to google for "09 F9". Some of have that key committed to memory. Or emblazoned on a sticker. Or you can google for "digg revolt". How many people know to google for "45 5F"? How many tshirts will have that? How many hits are on the front page of Digg?

After a dozen more iterations, how visible will those keys be? Easily available, yes. News, no. They go back to being "eeeeevil underground hacking codes" they can more easily legislate against.

Go total digital (4, Interesting)

sobolwolf (1084585) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351481)

They should have learned by now from the music industry - they need strip down all expenses, ie packaging, etc and just provide the content digitally. They could then distribute to selected centers such as blockbuster, etc where people buy a blank dvd and get it burned for a few bucks, and get to keep it as well. Make it so much easier / and cheap for people to get it from offical outlets than to download. I tell you, I would rather stroll around the blockbuster then sift thru shady torrents, plus I can't download pringles... - they could also give away a free toy with kids movies as well... (this seems to work for McDonalds..). They also have one distinct advantage over music in regards to movies - people only watch a movie a few times at most anyway before they are after their next fix. This should be the main focus of a new paradigm in movie distribution. They need to get this infrastructure in place now, as opposed to waiting, for as bandwidth speed increases it is inevitable that people will start to download movies like they do music.

AACS v. RSA/TLS (1)

eldepeche (854916) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351503)

I don't know much about encryption, so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but what does this mean apropos the security of other encryption techniques, like RSA or SSL/TLS? If it's so easy to crack AACS, what about the others?

About that war... (1)

guruevi (827432) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351557)

This war on pirates has become even more entertaining than the pirate movies they are pirating.

Dupe or Dejavu? (1)

Vexorian (959249) | more than 7 years ago | (#19351665)

I am confussed!
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