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Indecent Game Sales Now A Felony In New York

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the watch-your-back-citizen dept.

The Courts 398

Gamespot reports on the final passing of New York senate bill A8696, legislation proposed just last week, that now makes it a serious felony to sell or rent a violent game to minors. The bill makes it illegal to sell a console without parental control options and establishes a group to second guess the ESRB's rating decisions. "'This bill is impermissibly vague,' EMA president Bo Andersen said in a statement. 'A8696 seeks to apply real-world standards of violence to the fictional and fanciful world of video games, an environment in which they have no meaning. As a result, retailers and clerks will not and cannot know with certainty which video games could send them to jail under A8696. It was depressing to hear members of the Assembly note the constitutional problems with the bill and then state that they were voting for it.'" The senate seems to have no fear of possible overturn of the bill, and claims it's only thinking of the children.

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398 comments

politicians. (1)

dahwang (973539) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351465)

...and thinking of their parent's votes....

Re:politicians. (4, Insightful)

faloi (738831) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351527)

It's funny, in a sick way, that a lot of the politicians that are quick to place restrictions on video games and music seemingly don't care a bit about violence in the entertainment industry. Like everything else, you only need to look at the money to figure out why.

Re:politicians. (4, Insightful)

anagama (611277) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351615)

Or violence in real life. For that they sell yellow ribbon bumper stickers.

Re:politicians. (4, Insightful)

flyingsquid (813711) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351855)

Or, God forbid we actually try implementing some reasonable restrictions on handgun ownership in this country. Because, after all, if we did, then we'd turn into a totalitarian dictatorship where violent crime would be even worse, just like what happened Canada.

Re:politicians. (3, Insightful)

Qzukk (229616) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351903)

then we'd turn into a totalitarian dictatorship where violent crime would be even worse, just like what happened Canada.

Or Britain?

Re:politicians. (2, Insightful)

Anarke_Incarnate (733529) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352013)

Because the law abiding citizens this imposes restrictions on.........THEY are the ones we must stop. Aside from recent issues (VT) there have been only flies among 757s where legal gun owners are the ones who commit violent crimes. Many legal gun owners actually STOP crimes. Why should that matter... Feel good legislation is where it is at, man

Re:politicians. (0, Flamebait)

rabbit994 (686936) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352083)

New York does have what most people call "reasonable restrictions" on handgun ownership. Helping much? Britain banned most guns and is now most monitored society in Europe. I'll take gang bangers blasting each other (95% of murders) over being completely monitored by government.

Re:politicians. (1)

CrashPoint (564165) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352525)

I'll take gang bangers blasting each other (95% of murders) over being completely monitored by government.

Please switch sides, or at least stop making up statistics. You're not helping.

Re:politicians. (1)

rabbit994 (686936) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352577)

Majority of murder are drug related. Ok, 95% is properly incorrect but it's slashdot where no one is going to change their mind due to comments.

Re:politicians. (2, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352103)

Say it with me: THE US IS NOT CANADA

It might well be possible to reduce or eliminate handgun sales in the US, but it won't be possible in the same way, nor on the same timescale, as any other country.

Remember, the mindset under which this country was founded led to the right to go about armed (aka "bear arms", yo) being written into the constitution. This nation was founded on individuality, and not on doing what one is told.

Re:politicians. (3, Insightful)

koreaman (835838) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352579)

Individuality? Not doing what one is told? Maybe for some elite subset of the intellectual population, but I've remarked no difference between normal Europeans and normal Americans in this regard.

I believe a bigger problem is the fact that the average American almost worships his Constitution. Rather than asking if a given law is good or bad, he asks if it follows the original intentions of the Founding Fathers, which gets in the way of any rational debate. Please remember that, living in the XVIIIth century, the Founding Fathers were obviously out of touch with what is happening (what was will happen? what would happen? I hate tenses) in the XXIst.

Re:politicians. (3, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352675)

Individuality? Not doing what one is told? Maybe for some elite subset of the intellectual population, but I've remarked no difference between normal Europeans and normal Americans in this regard.

I didn't say that things were precisely the same today as when the nation was founded.

But certain legacies from that time are still alive and strong today.

I believe a bigger problem is the fact that the average American almost worships his Constitution. Rather than asking if a given law is good or bad, he asks if it follows the original intentions of the Founding Fathers, which gets in the way of any rational debate.

I take your meaning, but I also want to reiterate the point that those who forget the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat them. The freedom of speech is necessary so that men can speak their minds and influence those of others. The freedom to bear arms is the only way to guarantee the freedom of speech. I could go on down the list, but the fact is that there are points at which force is the only valid response. When you get there, yes, the system has failed. But the old adage about the tree of liberty and the blood of patriots remains true.

Re:politicians. (2, Insightful)

flyingsquid (813711) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351821)

Damn, with this law in place, how will I get my kicks selling violent video games to minors? You know what someone ought to do is create a video game where you earn points by distributing violent games to minors!

Wow. cigs and beee (5, Insightful)

Broken scope (973885) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351469)

sold to a minor don't even warrant a class E felony, and they have prove harmful effects.

Re:Wow. cigs and beee (4, Insightful)

Lightwarrior (73124) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351627)

Yes, but the NY Senate is thinking of the children. That's more important than any study, or even the proven fact that the courts will knock this bill down faster than you can say "waste of taxpayer dollars."

Re:Wow. cigs and beee (1)

Anontroll (688740) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351701)

The same level of violence and blood is regularly shown on prime time television shows like 24, CSI and ER.

Re:Wow. cigs and beee (1)

rhombic (140326) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352539)

Yes, but with your V-chip(tm) you can make sure that Bobby and Suzi can't watch shows like 24, CSI, ER, or Nova (might have animals doing the nasty, ya know). Now if we could just get something that would make our computers into a Trusted Platform where we could set undefeatable settings preventing little Johnny from playing those aweful violent sexy games, then maybe the terrorists won't have won.

Re:Wow. cigs and beee (1)

Chosen Reject (842143) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352321)

But think of the other effects a bill like this would have. No more FPSs and GTA-clones. You make the fear-mongering think-of-the-children-types happy AND the todays-games-have-no-creativity group happy. Its a win-win situation.

Re:Wow. cigs and beee (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352603)

What is an indecent game sale? Is that when the cashier is naked when operating the register?

Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (4, Insightful)

dctoastman (995251) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351485)

Just ruled unconstitutional. C'mon, a "serious felony". What about movies with equivalent ratings? And books. Books have no rating systems at all. My six year old niece can go and buy any Diane Steel or Stephen King book and I would not recommend either to an immature audience.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (0)

LionKimbro (200000) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351555)

How is it unconstitutional?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


If it's not Congress making a law, I don't understand how it's unconstitutional.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (1)

Broken scope (973885) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351669)

Are you trying to be a smartass or are you seriously asking that? First it violates equal protection under the law. It only applies to videogames and ignores other forms of violent media. Cruel and unusual punishment. 4 years jail time and loss of voting rights among other things.( Yes you can have them reinstated but..) Second all states are bound by the US constitution. This is a state legislature doing this. Congress is the law making body. All laws are initially introduced in congress, either the house or the senate. If my interpretation is correct, congress more or less means legislative body.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (2, Informative)

eln (21727) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351689)

Even if you're right, and I don't think you are, this law is still unconstitutional because the New York State Constitution, Article I, Section 8, prohibits passing laws abridging the freedom of speech:

Every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right; and no law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of the press.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (2, Insightful)

moranar (632206) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352399)

I don't see how this law restricts that freedom. It's an idiotic law, certainly, but people aren't stopped from creating games directly because of it. It's maybe when they try to sell their creation that they might find difficulties.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19352561)

So you're saying that the law means you can say what you want, as long as nobody hears you?

I don't think that's a resonable interpretation. Restrictions on the sale of speech, based on the content of that speech, are restrictions on the speech itself.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352703)

So you're saying that the law means you can say what you want, as long as nobody hears you?

It's not a ban of the game in its entirety, it is a ban on direct sale to minors. I don't see how it is "nobody hears you", unless you are trying to push the idea that nobody over 18 plays games.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (2, Informative)

CrashPoint (564165) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351727)

Fourteenth Amendment:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (1)

CompSci101 (706779) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351733)

Because in ratifying the Constitution, the states agree to abide by it? Maybe?

If anyone suing New York to shoot this law down can't get satisfaction from a state court (and I'd be utterly surprised if they didn't), they can take it to the Supreme Court and show that, as a matter of Constitutionality, this law violates the First Amendment and possibly the Eighth Amendment against cruel and unusual punishment (as one other poster pointed out, under this law it's worse to sell video games to a kid than it is to sell cigarettes and alcohol. WTF??).

It will die, as it did in so many other states. And, again, it will waste a ton of money for New Yorkers when it goes to court to die.

C

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (1)

jae471 (1102461) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352033)

Because in ratifying the Constitution, the states agree to abide by it? Maybe?

Actually, no, at least not for states prior to the ratification of the 14th. Prior to 1868, it was only the federal government that was bound by the Constitution, unless explicitly stated otherwise in the Constitution.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (3, Insightful)

denttford (579202) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352199)

Except you can't preemptively sue to get rid of a bad law like this - someone has to be prosecuted and willing to forgo the plea offer and willing to be the object of a long long legal battle.

Agree or disagree with the reasoning, that's the way it is. [wikipedia.org]

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (1)

jae471 (1102461) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351761)

14th Amendment, Section 1:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This has more-or-less been ruled to mean that Amendments 1, 4, 5, 6, and 8 apply to the States as well as Congress.

Also, if it doesn't explicitly violate the US Constitution, it may violate the NY Constitution.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19351843)

If it's not Congress making a law, I don't understand how it's unconstitutional.

Hurrr hurrrr... did the state ratify the Constitution? Yup, sure did. Looks like they agreed to the Constitution. The Supreme Court has agreed with this interpretation since Marbury vs Madison.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (2, Funny)

Z0mb1eman (629653) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351601)

can go and buy any Diane Steel or Stephen King book and I would not recommend either to an immature audience.
I dunno, I think I'd recommend Diane Steel or Stephen King books only to immature audiences... :p

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19351777)

Ahaha or the Bible. I think children should know when and how their family (whole or in part) should be excecuted, or raped. And that they shouldn't eat shrimp cause they'll go to hell. Anything with less sex and or violence than the bible should be at least as available to everyone. Seeing as one of the features is near supernatural gang rape, nearly turned gang rape of children, turned supernatural genocide, followed by incest and rape by minors, I guess not much is out of bounds. Someone needs to make a no holes or holds barred state of the art bible sandbox game. Grand Theft Camel: Jericho. I won't be satisfied unless I can destroy people's genitals so they can't go to church anymore, sacrifice animals, boil a goat in it's mothers milk, rape anything including children and angels.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned (1)

ajanp (1083247) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352123)

I can see it now...

Student: (enters room for medical school interview)

Interviewer: So my colleagues and I were looking over your resume and were impressed with all that you've accomplished over the years. Do you think anything stands out in particular?

Student: Well, I saved hundreds of lives working as lead EMT, I performed open-heart surgery on an airplane when a man was having a heart attack, and I delivered a woman's child while I was trapped in an elevator after 2 days without food or water.

Interviewer: Wow, quite a track record. The only problem I see with your resume is that you say you were convicted of a serious felony. Was this just a mistake on your application?

Student: No, I tried to buy GTA 4 when I was only 17 and they busted me for it. They tried me as an adult and in prison I shared a room with a pedophile murderer who made me perform unspeakable acts every night for over five years. I was traumatized, but with the help of constant therapy and hard work, I've been able to rebound.

Interviewer: Get the hell out of this office. We don't want your kind at our university.

Student: But, the wh-

Interviewer: Out! Before I call security.

Student: (Later that night) Goodbye cruel world....

A felony?!? (4, Insightful)

Winckle (870180) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351495)

I'm not a citizen of the USA, but I thought felonies were very serious crimes, like assault, or bodily harm. Not selling violent video games to children, yeah, it's probably a "bad" thing to do, but making it a felony seems a bit over the top.

Re:A felony?!? (4, Insightful)

Tridus (79566) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351667)

All you have to know to understand Americans these days (particularly politicians) is that they've lost all ability to view things in perspective. Thats why every time something new is made illegal (especially if its completely innane, like this), the sentences for breaking said law are so completely out of line as to be laughable. Just wait, pretty soon pirating a HD DVD will be right up there with rape (if its not there already).

This is New York we're talking about (3, Insightful)

fistfullast33l (819270) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351827)

Knee Jerk reactions by the legislature are not new to New Yorkers. I have three words: Rockefeller Drug Laws [wikipedia.org]. At the time they were the harshest penalties in the United States for drug possession. From the article:

the penalty for selling two ounces ... or more of heroin, morphine, ... opium, cocaine, or ... marijuana .... or possessing four ounces or more of the same substances, was made the same as that for second-degree murder

So this isn't an overreaction by the New York Senate - it's standard operating procedure! Even better, the laws weren't reformed for over 20 years. Just goes to show why we're the most dysfunctional state government in the country.

Re:A felony?!? (1)

Detritus (11846) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352181)

It's the modern politician's way of saying "we take this seriously". If the trend continues, we might end up with the death penalty for spitting on the sidewalk. New York has a history of passing draconian laws, such as the Rockefeller drug laws of the 1970s.

I was watching a documentary on the colonization of Australia, and it said that 18th century English law mandated the death penalty for a broad spectrum of offenses, many minor by today's standards. It seemed to have little effect on the crime rate.

Re:A felony?!? (1)

SadGeekHermit (1077125) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352343)

NOTE: IANAL. Just a New Yorker.

Generally,

A misdemeanor is a crime that is punishable by less than one year in a local jail rather than a state prison.

A felony is a crime that is punishable by more than one year in a state-owned prison or penitentiary.

That's what a felony is about -- length and location of sentence. By the way, this should make it even MORE "over the top" for you because local jails are relatively much safer and nicer than state prisons, which are hell-holes by comparison. Unless you live in NYC, in which case the local jails are the "tombs" (shudder).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tombs [wikipedia.org]

Politicians = Gerbils (1)

Psmylie (169236) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351499)

They never seem to stop running in circles. I think they actually enjoy it. When this gets defeated in court, they'll just introduce another, extremely similar bill, which will also be defeated. Gotta keep spending that tax money!

Re:Politicians = Gerbils (1)

jswigart (1004637) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351743)

Reminds me of the old Lemmings game. It's too bad they don't have a self destruct button.

Re:Politicians = Gerbils (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351997)

Yeah, but next time they run for office their TV ads will include the phrase "Representative Tool worked hard to keep corrupting influences out of the hands of children, because Representative Tool cares about the children."

Just go to kid-whose-parents-dont-care's house (3, Interesting)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351511)

We all knew the kid growing up who had the porn, whose parents didn't care, and who had the latest violent-est video game. I guarantee that this will not slow down kids' exposure to such games, because they'll all just congregate at ol'johnny's house to play re-bloodening 3. It might slow down individual sales, but if exposure to the game is the problem, then consider it as unsolved as ever. In fact, making the games harder to get usually makes them more attractive to kids, as in "this one must be really bad, lets go to johnny's and see!"

Re:Just go to kid-whose-parents-dont-care's house (2, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351611)

I guarantee that this will not slow down kids' exposure to such games, because they'll all just congregate at ol'johnny's house to play re-bloodening 3. [...] In fact, making the games harder to get usually makes them more attractive to kids, as in "this one must be really bad, lets go to johnny's and see!"

You're forgetting another exciting factor. Johnny is usually the kid with the least parental supervision. He probably has a twisted little worldview and will get your kids into trouble.

I knew kids who had all the stuff who were and weren't like that, but anyway.

Re:Just go to kid-whose-parents-dont-care's house (1)

TerranFury (726743) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352073)

We all knew the kid growing up who had the porn

In the year 2007, that's any kid with an Internet connection.

Indecent Game Sales? No way! (1)

Applekid (993327) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351531)

Well, there goes my idea of opening a game shop where all the employees are topless women.

You mean to tell me I can't sell games indecently? Oh, the sorrow. I guess I'll just open it up in New Jersey.

Re:Indecent Game Sales? No way! (1)

MS-06FZ (832329) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351589)

Well, there goes my idea of opening a game shop where all the employees are topless women.
You call that "indecent"? I think it's delightful!

Re:Indecent Game Sales? No way! (3, Funny)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351811)

"Well, there goes my idea of opening a game shop where all the employees are topless women."

You'll likely scare away most of your customers; they're not accustomed to the real thing.

Re:Indecent Game Sales? No way! (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352035)

You'll likely scare away most of your customers; they're not accustomed to the real thing.

I think it's a good idea, provided that you install a non-slip floor and a drain. Otherwise the saliva may become a problem.

Re:Indecent Game Sales? No way! (1)

Achoi77 (669484) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352601)

I had to do a once-over on the title, I really interested in reading a summary about how NY was going to arrest private business owners for failing to sell enough video games, enough to be considered a decent sale.

Political Chicanery (3, Insightful)

onetwentyone (882404) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351571)

They can point out constitutional problems and still decide to vote for it knowing it can be overturned; sounds like a whole lot of political "I need something for my re-election" garbage. I imagine the exceedingly gross penalty stands for nothing more than a Get Tough (tm) on non-crimes stance.

Honestly, what is happening in this country where we've lost sight of what really matters?

Re:Political Chicanery (3, Insightful)

berashith (222128) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351893)

I have a serious issue with someone who has sworn to uphold and protect a document knowingly commiting an act that violates it. I would love a rule/law where when a public servant has voted positively for enough ( 3 , 5 ) items that get overturned as unconstitutional that they would lose their rights to be a public servant.

Of course, since this was passed by a state law, which are reserved under the federal constitution to be allowed to do quite a bit, I am not certain which constitution we are in violation of here.

Sad (2, Interesting)

mulvane (692631) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351577)

I actually at first thought to myself 'Is this for real or an onion piece?', but then it dawned on me that such bad legislation is par for the course. Sure one could say ignorance of the law is no excuse, but come on, ignorance of what someone else may think of as violent or indecent contrary to an already established rating system? I'm in the military, and I value what this country was built upon, but I have serious problems with what it has become and where it is going. The vote of the people doesn't even matter anymore. Content publishers and big money pay wages to the political machine that far outweighs the repercussions of going against popular belief and thinking of the people they are supposed to serve.

Re:Sad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19351763)

"...I'm in the military, and I'm in the military, and I value what this country was built upon, but I have serious problems with what it has become and where it is going., but I have serious problems with what it has become and where it is going..."

Umm. Then why are you still in the military? Or, for that matter, in this country?

Having said that, I'm not so sure about the accuracy of your imagined feelings. You probably meant to say "I value what I was taught this country was built upon", but you should be aware that it was really built on greed and violence, and given a crispy sugar coating of patriotism to justify the murder.

So it hasn't really changed. You've just got older.

Re:Sad (1)

mulvane (692631) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351905)

Your argument has many retorts that all have different views depending on your heritage. The original settlers fought to escape that greed imposed on them by Britain. Then, you could say the greed they had for what they had fought and won brought them into more fights. I also understand that what we fought and won wasn't really ours to take and or keep based on the fact someone (indians/native americans) already inhabited this land. But ALL nations were built around greed and expansionism and any country that didn't do that no longer exist or never had anything worth claiming anyway.

Just stop at parental controls. (1)

PFI_Optix (936301) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351639)

I've got no issue with a law requiring that consoles have parental controls so that parents can decide what rating level is appropriate for their kids and lock out the rest. That way they can control content without having to avoid consoles entirely.

I don't see anyone whining about the V-chip, so what would be the problem with a ratings filter on consoles?

Re:Just stop at parental controls. (4, Insightful)

mulvane (692631) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351715)

Nothing!! That is just the solution actually.. Leave the parenting to the parent and make parents responsible. Sadly, most parents want it the other way around anymore.
Who has time to be bothered by a troublesome kid.
Sure glad the kids at school, now I can have some peace.
Isn't there some kind of camp or afterschool activity I can send my kid to
Why don't you go play over at some one elses house

Parents don't raise their kids anymore, they expect government to do it, and government in turn wants to put THEIR religious and moral beliefs on our children, and punish the parents who disagree with THEIR views.

Re:Just stop at parental controls. (2, Insightful)

PFI_Optix (936301) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351895)

You don't know the same parents I do.

Most parents I know think they are at war with the schools because schools (an extension of the government) are trying undermine them as parents and raise the kids however they see fit. They whine and complain when the schools assign a lot of homework because "we don't have time to do anything as a family".

Of course, all they do as a family is eat fast food while watching TV before the kids lock themselves in their rooms for the evening so that Susie can show her boobs to boys on the internet while Johnny takes emo pictures and writes in his blog about how his parents hate him because they won't buy him the BMW he wants.

Re:Just stop at parental controls. (2, Insightful)

mulvane (692631) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351995)

I consider myself, as does my wife teachers as well. We don't like homework in excess, but we use school homework as family time with our kids. We sit down, help them with it, explain things they don't fully understand, and put our learned spin on things so they have multiple views to expose them to things having more than one way to be solved. Our kids eat usually home cooked meals with us. Eating out is used for days that have excess stuff (doctors appt's and or such things), and pizza on pay days (twice monthly).

Re:Just stop at parental controls. (1)

Kiashien (914194) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351971)

As far as I am aware, all current-gen consoles support this, with some flaws.

Re:Just stop at parental controls. (1)

PFI_Optix (936301) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352291)

I should hope so, there's no sense in not having it.

So let the politicians make a law requiring that:

-any device primarily designed for playing games (to exclude PCs)

-with interchangable games (this excludes the Atari clones with preinstalled games but no cartridges, as you know what you're buying when you buy it)

-that can carry any rating other than E (this excludes the educational systems like Leapfrog and V-Smile) ...be equipped with parental controls allowing parents to set a specific maximum rating allowed. It could also require that such a system support complex alphanumeric passwords--a maximum length of at least 12 characters would be sufficient--and come with a small pamphlet explaining the parental controls and explaining the need for a strong password, so that parents actually do have control over the electronic devices they purchased.

Such a bill could also call for more thorough parental controls that allow filtering by specific content classifications (violence, sexuality, et cetera) in the next generation of consoles. This way a parent who thought their child could handle sexuality at one rating level and violence at another could set up specific filters according to their child and possibly open the system up to allow a few more games.

Re:Just stop at parental controls. (1)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352127)

I've got no issue with a law requiring that consoles have parental controls so that parents can decide what rating level is appropriate for their kids and lock out the rest.

The whole problem with this, or putting stuff on computers to allow parents to restrict what their children do, is that in most households, the kids are the ones doing the tech suppoprt and setting up the electronics for the family

People who grew up always having computers and most of our modern technology know way more about it than their parents.

In all likelihood, the parents would need to ask the kids how to enable the parental controls.

Cheers

Re:Just stop at parental controls. (1)

PFI_Optix (936301) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352443)

Are you aware that the average parent that needs to be concerned with parental controls these days grew up with computers and programmable VCRs and such?

If you started your family at 25 (which is on the high side of average iirc) and you have a 13-year-old, then you were born around 1969 (give or take a year depending on when your and your kid's birthdays fall). Making you a teenager of the 80s. You know, back when the kids really *were* the only ones who knew how to program the VCR.

This argument of "parents don't get it anyway" is ancient, and it's increasingly inaccurate. Parental controls have become quite user-friendly when implemented correctly and most parents of young kids today are comfortable with technology. You must think parents of young teens are just ancient...they're in their mid-30s.

Re:Just stop at parental controls. (1)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352661)

This argument of "parents don't get it anyway" is ancient, and it's increasingly inaccurate.

I'm not saying everyone with kids is clueless about their computers and the like, but I see a lot of news stories saying the average teenager spends 5-10 hours/week being the family tech support and helping mom and dad out with online stuff they don't know how to do.

You must think parents of young teens are just ancient...they're in their mid-30s.

I'm in my late 30's, so I have a pretty good idea of what age range we're talking about.

But, I also know a tremendous amount of people in their 30's who don't interact with computers or know anything about them. It's just simply not part of their lives.

The point is, that, yes, many parents know how to do such things. But, many don't and are really incapable of knowing how to police their kids activities on computers and the like. Much of society isn't yet computer literate believe it or not. As much as we use them all of the time, there are people who actually don't.

Cheers

A thoughtful comment... (-1, Troll)

Otter (3800) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351641)

I thought "Autolycus"'s comment:

LAST I HEARD ITS NOT THE GOVERNMENTS JOB, ITS THE PARENT. YOU SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A LICENSE TO HAVE CHILDREN. OTHERWISE THE PARENTS LOOSE A FINGER EVERYTIME.
was particularly insightful and thought-provoking.

How much more do I need to type to get the caps through? This much?

That much, apparently.

Re: A thoughtful comment... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352141)

I don't think removing fingers is the answer. I think mandatory sterilization for both parents is. Stop them from doing it again. Besides, they are going to need those fingers to flip my burgers and salt my fries, and to take things off the rack at K-Mart and the dollar store.

Re: A thoughtful comment... (1)

linzeal (197905) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352279)

Why not give every child in the USA the right to choose to be independent of their parents at any time. I can't think of how many children I have tutored over the years that got progressively less responsive to the challenge of educating themselves because the parents were less and less encouraging as they surpassed them in intelligence. Children if it is their wont should be able to live amongst their peers starting from a very early age.

Re: A thoughtful comment... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352311)

Why not give every child in the USA the right to choose to be independent of their parents at any time.

Why not give every child in the USA the means, while you're at it?

What states don't have youth emancipation laws?

Re: A thoughtful comment... (1)

linzeal (197905) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352427)

They may have the laws but the parents are almost always given the benefit of the doubt. California, Arizona and Texas are some of the worst offenders often sending children back to be beaten up and molested because the social workers are overworked and underpaid. What is needed is a system that guarantees independence free of adults if the child so wishes. I really don't think the nuclear family or the foster family have produced consistent enough results to be used as models.

Re: A thoughtful comment... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352533)

What is needed is a system that guarantees independence free of adults if the child so wishes.

I don't think that most adults are competent to operate without supervision - and even less children.

Perhaps they should not be with their parents. But in only very few cases should they be without any.

Re: A thoughtful comment... (1)

Johnny5000 (451029) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352347)

YOU SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A LICENSE TO HAVE CHILDREN.

I'll go one better.
Everyone should be sterilized at birth for free.
If you want kids bad enough, you can pay out of your own pocket to get it reversed.

Re: A thoughtful comment... (1)

Kohath (38547) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352405)

His point is extremely silly. A "license" to have children really gets the government out of parenting, doesn't it?

I think a "loose" finger explains the all-caps though.

So.. (1)

Vexorian (959249) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351691)

Kids will just download games like they already do.

They were damn smart at making it a felony to sell and not give away else I can think of the American army getting jailed for a serious felony...

Who cares? (1)

JesseBikman (1002865) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351707)

Just card everybody if you sell video games to people. It shouldn't be a felony but hey, every country needs its criminals...

Re:Who cares? (1)

Broken scope (973885) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351991)

What good will carding do? The terms used as a guideline are so vague that a T rated game could get you in trouble if a parent and a prosecutor felt that it was "indecent". Sure, you could throw the charges off with a good lawyer but they cost money and the state doesn't usually pay for your court expenses. If your like the average store clerk your kinda fucked at that point. Sure, you didn't get a felony on your record but you had to take a loan out to pay for your lawyer.

Re:Who cares? (1)

JesseBikman (1002865) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352305)

Hmmmm. Sounds like a compelling reason to not buy video games in the state of New York. What is wrong with our country?

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19352369)

If this doesn't get overturned, it isn't going to fuck over the clerk in the long run (though getting a felony is good way to not get future jobs), because target, wal-mart, and bestbuy are going to stop carrying these games that have such a liability attatched to them. So these violent games will stop being made because they'll stop being sold. But it will get overturned. The video game industry may not have payed their lobbyists enough, but they'll make up for it now.

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19352669)

The state may not pay your bills, but usually the ACLU does...

They just made a mockery of the legal system (1)

Hubbell (850646) | more than 6 years ago | (#19351745)

I can have a verbal dispute with someone, and punch them in the face, and get a MISDEMEANOR charge, but if I sell a video game to a kid I can get a felony?
This is outright fucking ridiculous and everyone who voted in favor of this bill needs to have their rights to procreation and input on any subject revoked for the good of society and the gene pool.

honest question (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352043)

We all know that 1st degree murder is a big nono....but do they put extra charges on top of the murder charges if you kill someone in front of a kid but then leave the kid unharmed?

No?

I thought not.

Need responsible legislators (2, Interesting)

RichMan (8097) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352155)

Proposal:

Should a legislator vote for a law/bill later found by a court to be unconstitutional that legistlator shall immediatly be dismissed from their post having been essentially found to be "acting against the constitution". Such shall not apply to direct attempts to modify the constitution.

Screw the children, think of the adults. (4, Insightful)

Blackknight (25168) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352161)

Am I the only one that's tired of having their life inconvenienced for everybody's else's children? It's not my fault you're too lazy to watch what your kids are buying/playing. Why is the New York legislature even wasting time on this?

You boys want this shut down? (2, Insightful)

Daimando (842740) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352163)

You know what to do. Contact the ESA, tell them about this law. Contact the judges, inform them. Contact the New York Government. Give em your criticisms. Remember, our voices speak louder.

Re:You boys want this shut down? (1)

CogDissident (951207) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352605)

Since when? Voting machines don't mean anything since they went digital, so politicians don't care about our votes, just that it "seems" like they could have gotten the majority of votes.

I'll trust voting machines when I'm nolonger convinced that I could vote 10,000 times with just a weeks effort making a fake voting card and just rapid-swiping it.

the tags! You forgot one! (1)

N3wsByt3 (758224) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352657)

It should also be tagged 'thinkofthechildren'!

While I laugh at the silly (part of the) USA where this sort of crap is passed, the sad thing is, I have a feeling that it will blow over to europe sooner or later too.

The influence of the USA is just too insidious to stop it, certainly with the open backdoor they have in the EU with their fellow-anglo-saxon-mentality country; the UK.

I even fear the day, EU-countries will begin to mandate ID has to be learned at school too.

It's actually one of the reasons I support (moderate) anti-americanism (not defined in the classical broad way). I think we're far too much influenced by how the US wants to see the world and we're *obliging* it far too many times. I don't understand that from our top-politicians; even when they do not agree with what the US says or does, they still buckle in the end. They cave in every god damn time...well, how is a bully ever going to learn his lesson, if he always gets his way?

I truelly wished we weren't so damn weak. you can't say what a strong europe we have (as out politicians do) and then show you cave in to every demand. If we don't make ourself stronger (in international affairs), in 20 years, we will cave in to china too.

I think it's mainly a problem from the EU political-structure; it just sucks. We should get rid of that commision of unelected bureacrats, and just vote directly for a president. As it is now, it pains me to acknowledge that the EU, seen on a worldscale, is a wussy.

Why the fuck should I care about stupid politics. (1)

OldHawk777 (19923) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352697)

I can use daddy's gun, and play daddy's game.
I can't by a gun, I can't buy a game.
Why the fuck should I care about stupid politics?

I shot the sheriff (1)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352715)

A8696 seeks to apply real-world standards of violence to the fictional and fanciful world of video games

And you Jim, what have you to say for your 12 counts of GTA, 3514 counts of assault, 151 murders of police officers, and 312 FBI agents dead?
"They had what was coming to them. Charlie was stepping on my turf, and they shouldn't have got between us."

We have all heard your testimony of your video game rampage, and have no other recourse but to sentence you to 29 deaths by lethal injections. After which we will release you back onto the street in front of the hospital with 100% health.

Classic systems have no parental controls.. (4, Interesting)

LordJezo (596587) | more than 6 years ago | (#19352719)

The NES, SNES, Genesis, Atari, Game Boy, etc.

None of them have parental controls. Does that mean selling classic systems is illegal? Or do the old ones get grandfathered in?
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