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Economic Analysis of Toilet Seat Position

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the why-is-this-so-hard? dept.

It's funny.  Laugh. 473

Ant writes "The Science Creative Quarterly has published an economic analysis of The Social Norm of Leaving the Toilet Down, employing game theory. This analysis is more thorough than preceding ones cited (from 2002 and 2005), as it factors in the cost of yelling. Both men and women can take some comfort in the conclusion though neither may in the end be satisfied.

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What's the big deal.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370251)

We (men) need the toilet seat up. The only reason there isn't a monstrous "leave the toilet seat up!" battle raging is because most men are whipped. To dare raise that sort of issue to the minister of house and home affairs might wind you up on the couch all night.

Re:What's the big deal.. (2, Insightful)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370285)

I don't know about you but when I have to crap I have to sit down. And that's why there's no "leave the toilet seat up!" battle raging, because guys can just go to the fucking bathroom sitting down(which I usually do when I'm not in a public bathroom)! What annoys me more though is when other men pee standing up and get urine all over the toilet seat. In public bathrooms, there are usually these special toilets that can only be used standing up. If your masculinity is challenged by not standing up in the bathroom, use those!

Re:What's the big deal.. (5, Funny)

Wayne247 (183933) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370367)

This is becoming such a problem at my workspace that I now go use the toilet where mostly women use it, instead of the one close to me where mostly men use it.

I can't beleive that guys will purposefully pee standing up, spray the bowl, the seat, the floor, the walls, there might even be some on the ceiling, and then just walk away as it it was perfectly normal. WHAT THE FUCK? That's piss you got there on your shoes, not stream water!

I'm ashamed of being a man when I see the state guys leave toilets. Once I was in a public toilet at a theater and the only explanation I could come up with to explain the level of piss spray everywhere was that there must be a war waging inside the bowl between two countries, and one of them just discovered the atomic bomb.

Re:What's the big deal.. (5, Interesting)

markdavis (642305) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370555)

I am a man- I sit down ALL THE TIME with private toilets- you have to more than 50% of the time, ANYWAY. Much less messy, much less noise, slightly faster, no conflicts. I don't give a rat's a** what anyone thinks (not like anyone would know, anyway, unless I post it in a stupid message on Slashdot for a million people to read).

Now, public restrooms? I will use the urinal when possible, which is what it is there for. My conclusion? Unless the private bathroom also has a urnal, just sit, for crying out loud!

If you want another interesting thing to statistically fight over: Do you leave the LID closed or open? At my house, it is always to be closed. Why? Because it grosses me out when the cats drink out of the toilets!!!

(This has got to be the silliest thread I have ever seen on Slashdot!)

Re:What's the big deal.. (5, Funny)

complete loony (663508) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370657)

(This has got to be the silliest thread I have ever seen on Slashdot!)
You must be new here.

Re:What's the big deal.. (2, Insightful)

jcorno (889560) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371009)

This is becoming such a problem at my workspace that I now go use the toilet where mostly women use it, instead of the one close to me where mostly men use it.

That may work in a bathroom that isn't used by strangers. Not in a public restroom, though. Have you ever been in a public women's toilet stall? They're worse than men. Ask a woman about it, and she'll explain that some women "hover" over the seat. They have basically no directional control, which means the seat gets soaked. Nobody's gonna sit on a wet seat, so the next woman has to hover, too. Don't ask me why they can't put the seat up. I'm guessing it's a matter of principle.

sit down to piss (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370577)

Yeah, I piss sitting down too and I'm a guy. I never understood the 'stand up' mentality when it comes to pissing. It's easier when you're seated. And less messy, like you said.

Re:What's the big deal.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370767)

Men should always sit while doing number one.

Many studies have proven that sitting makes sure that the blater is emptied more completely thus leaving less urine that might cause medical problems.
Also, I heard once that urinating while sitting is less demanding on the prostate, making it less likely to generate problems in the long term.

Besides men should always try to please women, any way they can...

Re:What's the big deal.. (4, Funny)

DuncanE (35734) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370371)

Amen to that...

WE took the time to lift it UP. THEY can take the time to put it DOWN.

(Yes Im married and whipped so this will only ever be posted on slashdot. Im never actually going to say it out loud.)

Re:What's the big deal.. (1)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370471)

There are worse cases... At a female friend's place, the seat won't even stay up. You actually need to hold it the whole time when peeing.

And no, neither her nor her flatmate heed it when I complain. Drat. Damn female chauvinist pigs... I should sue them for gender discrimination or something.

Re:What's the big deal.. (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370813)

That's because you can just pee sitting down(which is better for you medically) while they can't pee standing up.

Re:What's the big deal.. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370859)

Except for those of us who have long ring fingers who don't enjoy the idea of having our bodily parts soaking in the toilet water while we piss.

Re:What's the big deal.. (1)

Orkie (899576) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371033)

Sure they can: http://www.shewee.com/ [shewee.com]

Re:What's the big deal.. (1)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370477)

I've lived with several MOTS sometimes for years and *never* has this issue come up. And I've never heard of it coming up either around me. I suspect it's purely a US thing.
(note : I'm not in the US.)

Re:What's the big deal.. (1)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370491)

Um, I'm not quite sure what I expected "MOTS" to expand to now... Well, make that people of the female persuasion.

What about the lid? (4, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370255)

Where does closing the lid come in to play here?

Re:What about the lid? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370301)

Yeah no shit, the seat isn't tthe reason that I put the toilet seat down, but I close it because of all of the things that I have accidently dropped in the toilet because I left it up. I think that is more important than if it is up or down when you get to it.

Re:What about the lid? (4, Funny)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370669)

I think you need to talk to your boss about getting a cubicle in a better location.

Re:What about the lid? (4, Interesting)

jc42 (318812) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370785)

I close it because of all of the things that I have accidentally dropped in the toilet because I left it up.

Around our house, we have a good reason to keep toilet lids closed. Due to my wife's allergies to nearly everything furry (except me ;-), we have four small parrots, who sometimes fly around the house looking for things to get into. I've been thinking of putting up signs in the bathrooms for visitors quoting the advice in many "How to care for your pet parrot" books:

The most common cause of accidental death of pet birds is drowning in toilets. Please close the lid when you're done.

This pretty much decides the issue here.

Re:What about the lid? (5, Insightful)

Purity Of Essence (1007601) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370949)

I always close the lid simply because everyone suffers that way. It's the only fair option.

Missing options... (1)

DrYak (748999) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370461)

Yeah and the "cowboy neal" option is missing too, you insensitive clod...

Oh, wait ! This isn't a poll.

Re:What about the lid? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370473)

Follow-on study,
Buried, page 798.
Essential earmarks.

Re:What about the lid? (5, Funny)

bl8n8r (649187) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370497)

> Where does closing the lid come in to play here?

There is an innate need within women to group a collection of shortcomings for later use. It's similar to stacking cannonballs in a nice neet pile for use should a skirmish arise. The toilet seat issue (as well as the toilet paper over/under issue) is simply an assured way of having enough cannon balls for the pile. Ergo:

- If the seat is up when you piss, you must remember to put it down.
- If the seat is down when you piss, you must remember to put it up.

Furthermore, if toilet paper is to be replaced on the roll holder, you must examine the toilet paper to see which way the pretty design is printed. This design must be visible and dictates which way the roll should hang. (Note: the same rule is applied to paper towel). I do not understand the reason for artwork on something I wipe my ass with, but surmise it is solely there for the reason of stockpiling cannonballs.

I find it less trouble to simply piss in the sink.

Depends entirely on the artwork (3, Funny)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370529)

I could see a few company logos that would certainly endear toilet paper makers to certain groups. I could well see SCO logos on TP used at Novell...

Re:What about the lid? (1)

whimmel (189969) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371161)

> There is an innate need within women to group a collection of shortcomings for later use.

I prefer the lid closed mainly because I have a shelf full of toiletries and a towel rack hanging over the toilet. If one of those items were to fall, I don't want to have to fish it out of the toilet.

I used to room with a female who insisted that I close the shower curtain. I listened to her argument, agreed, and learned quickly to close it when I was finished.

She (to this day in her new place) leaves the seat down and lid up. It makes me think she just gets up and walks away from the toilet when she's done. Gross!

Each time I'd find the toilet in that state, I'd yank the shower curtain open with as much noise as possible. She would then come running up the stairs yelling "SORRY!", lower the toilet lid and then put the shower curtain back. It apparently didn't teach her but it made me feel better.

Re:What about the lid? (5, Informative)

_vSyncBomb (50710) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370609)

This is a moot point in my household; both the seat and lid stay closed. Even when my girlfriend is out of town. That's because if you don't shut the toilet before you flush, a massive cloud of tiny invisible particles of fecal matter and other nastoids comes shooting out of the toilet in all directions, coating you, the bathroom, and anything else in its path (like say, your toothbrush, if you don't leave it in the medicine cabinet or somewhere sheltered).

This was documented in a mildly famous study by Charles Gerba [arizona.edu] . It has been amusingly dubbed the F3: the Fecal Fountain Factor [brynmawr.edu] .

Now, tiny droplets of shit and piss water won't kill you--if you are healthy, you could likely french kiss your toilet seat and not get sick, but that doesn't mean you wanna. I find the mere knowlege that, if I don't shut the toilet first, I will be bathed an a microscopic shit shower to be sufficiently unappealing that I always do so. And, this way is equitable to all parties involved--no matter if you are a stander, or a sitter, you still have to lift the lid to use the toilet.

Luckily, the ages-old controversy is being brought back by the Japanese. New toilets there have infrared sensors that detect your approach and lift the lid and/or seat for you. Sounds ridiculous, but once you get used to it (that is, use it once), you come around to liking it. And happily, this technology reignites the debate with your female counterpart: you can argue about whether Mr. Smarty Toilet should be programmed to lift the lid, or both lid and seat. That is, until they come up with the next generation of toilets than can differentiate between individual people...

Re:What about the lid? (2, Informative)

travdaddy (527149) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370781)

The reason I do the same thing (close both the seat and lid) is so the cat won't drink out of the toilet. She has bad enough breath as it is!

Re:What about the lid? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370935)

If you're really that sensitive, consider that whenever someone near you farts, you're inhaling gas that was given off by decomposing excrement, from up their back passage. Nice, I don't think. :-6

Re:What about the lid? (1)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371031)

No kidding. My toothbrush has a death wish, so I have to keep the lid down when I'm not using the toilet.

I demand new and interesting ways to have a shit (1)

TheEmptySet (1060334) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370259)

So, what I want to know is: will this scientific research lead to a new design of toilet that is able to please both genders, thus breaking the intellectual monopoly that Thomas Crapper's original design has had for far too long?

Re:I demand new and interesting ways to have a shi (4, Informative)

grahamlee (522375) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370971)

Thomas Crapper neither invented the flushing toilet, nor was the noun 'crap' created after his name.

You insensitive clod... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370265)

I don't use the toilet. God made bushes and trees for a reason, you know.
(I'm lots of fun at the office, too... those silk plants sure look real)

Re:You insensitive clod... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19371127)

Actually, it's better to "piss" on a rock than a tree or bush. The salts in your urine attracts animals who eat the tree trying to get at the salt.

Way. Too. Much. Time (1)

segedunum (883035) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370269)

Seriously.

A technological approach (1)

wfberg (24378) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370305)

A better approach would be a technological one; let machinery decide whether the toilet seat should be lowered or not.

One might imagine some sort of sensor that detects the prospective toilet user's gender. However, this is not satisfactory, seeing as how males do sometimes require the seat to be down as well.

I propose a system whereby the toiletseat is lowered when the door leading to the toilet is closed, and opened when the door is closed.

After all, many men leave the toilet door open, though women are vastly more likely to close it. Also, men are more likely to close the door for fear of exposing themselves (or malodorous fumes) when they would be facing the door when using the toilet, rather than standing with their back to the door - which is the most likely orientation when urinating. Closing the door for toiletseat-down operation can be reinforced in males by only providing access to printed matter (such as a newspaper) with the door closed (and hence, the toiletseat down).

The toilet seat might be operated electronically, or even mechanically, so this system could even be used during power outages or in developing nations. It would require only the bare minimum of training for all participants.

Re:A technological approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370377)

I think it's called a urinal...

Re:A technological approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370401)

Similar systems already exist, I have seen one in Japan (the seat cover automatically lifted when I opened the door)

to the unfruitfully endowed males, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370427)

One might imagine some sort of sensor that detects the prospective toilet user's gender


One would imagine such a sensor would be a source of great embarassement....
 
  I'm not referring to myself of course.... *returns to shopping for a Porsche through tears*.

Re:A technological approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370959)

"A better approach would be a technological one; let machinery decide whether the toilet seat should be lowered or not."

Are you serious? Wow. Let's spend time and money on research and sensors and AI and installation and repair so that a ROBOT can do the simplest tasks for us.

While we're at it, lets spend thousands more dollars so robots can wipe our butts and brush our teeth. (Not the same ones, mind you.)

If this is a question of being too squeamish to touch the toilet seat, maybe what you need is to carry around some latex gloves.

Re:A technological approach (1)

ElleyKitten (715519) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371157)

The problem with that idea is that it is not universal that the door is open when the toilet seat should be up and the door is closed when the toilet seat should be down. Many bathrooms have the toilet on the side wall, so a male would be fully visible from the side when looking through the open door, so it would be rather rude to guests walking past the bathroom to have the door open. On the other end, you have women who, when home alone, will never close the bathroom door, despite always needing the seat down. Considering as well that there are dogs who would drink toilet water, cats who will jump into it, toilets that are too dirty to look into beyond necessity, klutzes who will drop things in the toilet, etc, I think the most appropriate solution is to leave the lid down and have the people move the lid and seat into the appropriate position while using it.

Solve your problem (2, Insightful)

WormholeFiend (674934) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370309)

by installing an asian-style toilet, the type you have to squat down on top of. No lid needed!

Among its various additional benefits, squatting really helps pushing out number-two's.

Until you shit all over your shoes. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370983)

I went to Japan on business with a few co-workers once. On the way to an important meeting, one of the fellows had to take a crap. So we found a public washroom, and apparently it had a squat toilet. To keep the story short, he came out a few minutes later with diarrhea all over his pants and shoes. He said it just sprayed out all over the place because he was squatting. Needless to say, he didn't attend the meeting.

Or... (2, Insightful)

msauve (701917) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371153)

both a toilet and a urinal. Then there is no need to move the seat, ever. 100% efficient.

Academic detachment (3, Funny)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370319)

If you constantly have fights over the position of the seat, just get a traditional asian toilet, ie a hole in the ground you have to squat over.

Re:Academic detachment (2, Informative)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370495)

just get a traditional asian toilet, ie a hole in the ground you have to squat over.

I fear that I have to point out that a hole in the ground is the traditional toilet for all cultures.

Re:Academic detachment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370559)

I'm an eskimo & I cut a hole in the ice you insensitive clod!

What about people who have dogs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370321)

In our house the seat (and cover) must always be left down.

Otherwise that sloppy kiss from our dog is a bit gross.

Problem solved (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370329)

Give the girlfriend a cold look if she whines about a trivial thing like the toilet seat and find another if she continues, seriously. Plenty of women on this planet.

from TFA: (1)

dominious (1077089) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370363)

Now, consider the situation in which John and Marsha decide to cohabit and both use the same toilet. This situation is popularly known as marriage.
So that's marriage!

Sit down to pee!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370365)

Problem solved!

Simple solution in my house (1)

vinniedkator (659693) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370379)

The seat and the lid get shut every time. If I can't win, no one can. Plus it has the added benefit of keeping the kids and cats from playing in the water.

Pathetic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370399)

Things like peeing on the floor or leaving the top off the toothpaste so it dries up are irritating. Anybody who even thinks about the toilet seat being up/down needs to get a life, if someone pees on the seat you can complain then.

shucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370421)

"...though neither may in the end be satisfied."

Drat it all Shakespeare, I was so hoping to be satisfied in the end...

The Unconsidered Factor (2, Insightful)

Enonu (129798) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370459)

To all women out there,

Men are lazy, and when they need to take a leak, they might decide to try out their aim with the seat down rather than take the effort to raise it. Sometimes they miss, leaving urine for you to sit on. Leave the toilet seat up. It's in your best hygienic interest to do so.

Re:The Unconsidered Factor (1)

DFENS619 (1008187) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370611)

are there guys out there who miss?? me and my friends we're discussing one time how piss gets on the toilet seat... The only time it ever happens to me is when I'm very drunk.

Re:The Unconsidered Factor (1)

kalirion (728907) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370975)

You don't have to miss on the initial spray to get water on the seat. There's also the drip factor afterwards.

and the solution is .... (1)

3seas (184403) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370463)

... http://www.totousa.com/washlets_landing2.asp [totousa.com] With a remote that will please the geek in every guy.
but be warned http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2001320029-2007 210556,00.html [thesun.co.uk] (don't piss on the seat)

Re:and the solution is .... (1)

coinreturn (617535) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370567)

(don't piss on the seat)

But if the seat's on fire, perhaps you should piss on it.

Re:and the solution is .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370765)

Buy her the book The Surrendered Wife. No more arguments, problem solved. Google or Amazon will find the links.

Easy solution (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370467)

Here's how you solve the toilet seat dilemma:

Remove the toilet seat.

No toilet seat, no arguments, no problem.

Re:Easy solution (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370499)

You must be a GNOME developer.

Re:Easy solution (1)

dramenbejs (817956) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370727)

Best comment to the date! Thanks :)

Re:Easy solution (1)

nsupathy (515587) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370883)

I don't have mod points. Otherwise, I would have modded parent up.

What the... (1)

Mystery00 (1100379) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370479)

All I can say is this must be the stupidest issue in the world.

This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine... (5, Insightful)

808140 (808140) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370483)

I don't mean whether you leave it up or down, I mean the argument. I've run into women who are adamant about having the toilet seat down, and I just can't wrap my head around it. Obviously, if it's her apartment or otherwise constitutes her space (as opposed to a shared space between the two of you) then she gets to make policy on all things, no matter how inane -- when you're in someone else's home, regardless of how intimately connected to them you may be, it's just rude to do things in contravention of their preferences.

However, if you are living together and sharing a space, then insisting that the toilet seat be down (or up, for that matter, although I've never encountered that) is simply a selfish insistence that your needs are more important than your partner's. Consider: when a man wants to pee, if the toilet seat is down, he must first put it up, or the seat will end up with drops of urine on it, which no one (including the man) wants. When a woman wants to pee, if the toilet seat is up, she must put it down, because she cannot sit on the rim.

Because each wants something different, the fair way to handle it is to simply put it down (or up) as required. Men put it down, women put it up. The distribution of labor is fair, everyone has to put it up or down sometimes and not at other times.

The insistence that it always be down, however, essentially amounts to the woman shirking her share of the toilet-seat-state-changing responsibility. She is saying that she doesn't feel that she should ever need to put the toilet seat down or up, and that you, the man, are responsible for putting it both up and down.

Men are frequently inconvenienced by a woman leaving the toilet seat down -- if you show up in the middle of the night, and it's dark, and you really have to go, it's a bit of a pain to always have to feel to see if the seat is up or down before you let it all out. Isn't this exactly the argument most often used by women? Why is it a valid argument coming from them, and not from us? The simple answer is that she wants it her way, and is unable to compromise, and for some reason feels as though society has vindicated her opinion on the matter.

To me, a woman who insists on having the toilet seat down, who cannot take the trouble to put it down if it is up, exactly as I must take the trouble to put it up if it is down, is clearly an example of a selfish, controlling personality who will cause you problems in the long run. And actually, there's a broader theme here: if you're the sort of person, regardless of your gender, who expects other people to conform completely to your habits and norms without considering that in a relationship, everyone needs to change their habits somewhat in order to make things work, then you're probably a shitty significant other. The kind I tend to dump after three weeks, if even.

The fact that some women are even under the impression that insisting that the toilet seat always be down to convenience them is in any way right-thinking at all completely boggles my mind. I don't watch football, but to leverage another cliché as an analogy: it would be like insisting that any time she watches TV that she put it back on ESPN when she's done.

This has turned into a rant, but here's a piece of advice for men who respect themselves: if she starts throwing a shit fit about the toilet seat, dump her. I'm serious. It's the tip of the iceberg, and you'll end up unhappy in the long run.

Small correction (1)

808140 (808140) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370519)

You probably noticed this, but I meant to write "Because each wants something different, the fair way to handle it is to simply put it down (or up) as required. Men put it up, women put it down. The distribution of labor is fair, everyone has to put it up or down sometimes and not at other times."

Somehow I reversed the emphasized. Sorry, should have previewed.

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (2, Insightful)

wonkavader (605434) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370591)

When we're just starting a relationship, we're usually looking for validation of our decision. We see reasons why this is a good thing and that this will work -- we don't see what others sometimes do, that this is a crazy, self-destructive decision which will alienate our friends, and cost us a year of happiness as we extricate ourselves. To have a rule of thumb is a VERY GOOD THING. To adhere to it -- trust it -- and let it force us to make the right decision is a VERY GOOD THING.

When we look for a job, many of us us the Dilbert principle. If there are a few Dilbert cartoons on the cubes, work there. If there are a lot or none, don't. (None means that management won't allow them, and people are scared, too many means the company is seriously pooched.) This is a rule. No matter how nice things look, if it doesn't pass the Dilbert test, we don't take it.

The toilet seat thing seems just as useful and important or more so. If she doesn't immediately see that there shouldn't be an issue there, run.

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (1)

coinreturn (617535) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370601)

Because each wants something different, the fair way to handle it is to simply put it down (or up) as required. Men put it up, women put it down. The distribution of labor is fair, everyone has to put it up or down sometimes and not at other times.

Amen. Amazingly, when I explained this to my wife, she agreed and the issue completely disappeared. Showing not only that she's not a selfish twit, but that she can be convinced by logical reasoning.

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (1)

garett_spencley (193892) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370619)

I share your pet peeve and using that very same logic I was able to get my wife to see things our way and I had won. It was a victory not just for myself but for man kind.

Then we had kids and they are very groggy when they get up in the middle of the night and would sometimes sit in the bowl and get themselves completely drenched with toilet water. So we're back at leaving it down :(

But she hasn't heard the last from me. As soon as they're old enough to be given personal responsibility for keeping their asses dry ...

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (1)

complete loony (663508) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370715)

... then you're probably a shitty significant other
This in a toilet related thread?

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (2, Funny)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370823)

I've run into women who are adamant about having the toilet seat down, and I just can't wrap my head around it.
It's simple. those women tend to be control freaks of some type. Best solution is to run away. A more fun solution is to put the seat down AND the lid every single time.

It screws with their head hard, as they are pleased you obeyed and put the seat down, but it pisses them off that you put down the lid.

If you get confronted about it simply say, "you like the lid up? how disgusting."

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (2, Funny)

Charcharodon (611187) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371001)

Amen bother.

Of course after getting out of a shitty relationship and back into my own place I thought I was free to leave the toilet seat in any old position I like. It was pure joy while it lasted. Then a month later I was back to leaving it down.

I work in aircraft maintenance and it turns out we fall under a peculiar law of physics.

Any object dropped can and will fall into the most unlikely and most inconvenient place.

So in other words practically anything I dropped regardless of how many bizarre bounces or ricochets it would take, would land in the toilet from anywhere in the bathroom. Once exposed to this, it takes a long time for it to get it out of your life, much like a neurotic woman. I had never noticed it before because of the much stronger force, known as female OCD, altered the natural laws of space and time in my household. Once I resigned myself to leaving the toilet set back down, things stopped landing in the toilet, though they tried their damndest to do, and instead started landing in the trash can. Now I have to get into the habit of taking out the trash and putting a bag in the can.

A guy can't fucking win.

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (1)

neolith (110650) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371101)

Why the hell has it been decreed that because men CAN pee standing up, they must? Talk about a selfish insistance, especially if you never volunteer to clean the thing you are pissing and splashing up. Seriously, it's a nice, comfy, cool seat. You use it half the time sitting anyway, right? Why not sit down to pee? If you're outside, hell yeah, let 'er rip. If you're at a urinal, knock yourself out. But why try to stand and pee in a small seat? Give in. Nobody will see you. Sit down and pee. Read a page of a magazine while you're at it. Wasn't that nice? Didn't have to worry about aim or pissing on the rim or nothing.

This has got to be some holdover from cavemen days (with apologies to the GEICO guys). Guys sitting down to pee, when they can, is the next leap forward in the evolution of civilization.

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (3, Funny)

billcopc (196330) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371103)

Consider this: if either mate pulls a hissy fit over the orientation of a hinged piece of plastic, I say shoot them both! One for being a petty jerk/bitch, the other for having such poor taste as to risk spreading weak genes through reproduction.

Eugenics starts in the bathroom!

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine.. (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371121)

I think that's too much thinking, though I think the conclusion is a good one. One thing though, women need the seat down all the time, and men, maybe a third the time, that's more of a need for it to be down than up.

I prefer to have the seat and cover down. I'm not sure why people of either sex wants to see even clean toilet water even when they are in the bathroom for other reasons. If you never use the cover, then you may as well remove it, there's no reason for it to be there if it's not even used.

Oh dear... (1)

Z00L00K (682162) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370509)

It seems like this is going to get really ugly really fast...

And all this for a very trivial problem.

Interesting fact is that the water in the toilet bowl often is very low on bacteria just because it is exchanged rather often so if your pet tries to drink that water it's not that much of a problem.

One other thing to consider is that in some parts of the world you are running the risk of being invaded by unwanted pets through the toilet, so you better should have the lid down and kept in place by something heavy there... Sometimes it may be a good idea to flush before and after...

Irony (1)

Realistic_Dragon (655151) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370513)

Women have less need to leave the toilet seat down as they on average keep the toilet cleaner and so less noxious fumes are there to escape.

A rather simple algo, ladies (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370553)

if (lid->position==UP)
    lid->lower();
sit();
pee();

Re:A rather simple algo.. for both sexes (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370707)

if (lid->position==DOWN)
      {
        if (gender==MALE)
                goto_sink();
        else
                sit();
        }
pee();

Just hope I got that right. Last thing you need is a nasty buffer overflow ;)

Re:A rather simple algo, ladies (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370897)

That algorithm should be used for men too. Sitting down while peeing gets out more urine, is better on the prostate, doesn't get the toilet seat and everything else in the vicinity messy, and also allows you to crap while doing it. There is no good reason to pee standing up unless the only toilets available are stand-up-only urinals or you have to do things very very quickly for whatever reason.

Re:A rather simple algo, ladies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19371133)

You should check your return codes. If sit() fails, you're in for a messy ride.

Proxy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370621)

Although I know this is supposed to be humorous and funny, the simple fact of the matter is that the toilet seat doesn't matter. It's just a sign that something else is wrong in the relationship and the toilet seat is just a proxy for the real reason to fight.

If the toilet seat issue is solved, you'll go on to fighting about the toothpaste (why do you always have to squeese from the middle instead of from behind and rolling it up).

--melot

WHY? (-1, Offtopic)

mpweasel (539631) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370643)

Why is it that when I get mod points, we get stories like THIS one?

I'd mark myself offtopic, but that's not allowed.

Very odd indeed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370693)

I've never actually had this problem except once long ago when I remember being asked to keep the seat down. I was amazed, (I was also a bit of a dick in those days) I actually suggested that it's probably a good idea to look before sitting down because I take craps too and I look. I also suggested that if she didn't look she could actually fall in and I would do my best to provoke the situation so that I could actually see this happen and laugh my head off. I mentioned that it was a good thing that I looked because if I didn't, and she was already on the toilet it could be weird. I think I mentioned that if it was aesthetics, then keeping the lid down was the thing to do. I think my closing sentence was something like "Unless this is a personal thing for you that you want me to just give you, I just though it would have been something a lot bigger and more important because at one point or another I know I'll be asking something from you". We both laughed at the end actually went for the aesthetics. 2 Live-ins later and never heard anything again. Everyone knows that when you go, you have a responsibility to check if the seat is in the right place before you do your thing. Please it's just a toilet, don't indulge her, if she wants you to do it for you then you ask something from her.

Assumptions too strong? (1)

Asgerix (1035824) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370719)

This being /., the stronghold of nerdy bachelors, the question is of course purely theoretical. However, there are a few assumptions in the article that would probably fail in the real world.

For example, the author assumes that John (an appropriate name, btw) visits the toilet as often as Marsha. In my experience, females visit the toilet more frequent than males.

Another thing: It is assumed that John only performs one of the two actions (#1 and #2) when he goes to the toilet. This is not really a problem though; if he has to do both, he would probably do both sitting down, and therefore we could adjust the probability p (of doing #1) to exclude these visits. The author ought to have mentioned this, though.

... for some reason my sig seems oddly appropriate for this discussion:

Re:Assumptions too strong? (1)

muftak (636261) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370841)

Also what if he does a #2, then realizes he needs a #1 afterwards, so has to lift the seat up?

Cost of forgetting to change the seat position (1)

bongk (251028) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370777)

What has not been factored in is the cost of Marsha or John forgetting to change the seat position before performing toilet operations. The scenario would be John attempting to perform #2 or Marsha performing #1 or #2 with the seat in the up position. This generally happens (at least in my house) because the user is still half-asleep or their senses are otherwise dulled. The probability of this occurring is much much lower than p, however the cost to the user when this happens is much much higher than the cost of a single change-the-seat-position action. The cost of the yelling from Marsha is (again in my experience) also much much higher.

There is also the inverse, where John forgets to raise the toilet seat before #1, often for the same reasons as above. Again the probability is lower and the cost (either of needing to clean the toilet seat or of yelling from Marsha when she sits on a wet seat) is greater than the costs of changing the seat position.

In any case in my house the game includes a 5 year old boy who generally waits till the last second and then runs into the bathroom doing the potty dance, and doesn't remember to raise the toilet seat for #1. The resulting mess I think now even has my "Marsha" raising the toilet seat after use in anticipation of this activity.

Re:Cost of forgetting to change the seat position (1)

Baron_Yam (643147) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370833)

Any woman who 'forgets' to check the seat position before using the toilet is too stupid to have as a wife. Dump her.

Seriously - if just LOOKING at something you're walking towards could save you getting stuck in a ceramic hoop with your ass dumped in a pool of cold water and you DIDN'T LOOK... wouldn't you feel like an idiot?

If I'm awake enough to get to the toilet, I'm awake enough to check the lid position. Same for her.

Optimal solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370905)

I already have the optimal solution: the man pees in the sink, thus never disturbing the seat position.

this is an easy one (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19370915)

If women bitch about leaving the seat up, don't, just leave it down and piss on the seat. they get what they want then. if we are considered too lazy to put the seat down, why aren't they considered too lazy to put the damn seat down themselves?? I consider it a courtesy that I put it up for the reason stated above :)

Upbringing (1)

pilsner.urquell (734632) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370923)

Let see, I am man in his 50's and was raised with 5 sisters. Also, I have 16 nieces, 2 grand nieces, 4 sister-in-laws, 2 ex sister-in-laws and I forget how many female cousins not to mention aunts. It is advantageous to put the seat down when done.

Must be a slow news day!

another solution (1)

TooFarGone (841076) | more than 7 years ago | (#19370985)

install urinals as well as a toilet in every shared bathroom.

Gay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19371065)

Who cares... I am gay. problem solved.

Solution: Just install two bathrooms... (1)

chiraz90210 (961309) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371075)

I have it in my appartment. It's great! No nagging, no waiting in the morning, you can go whenever you please, it has another shower too... The previous owner modified it this way to have the extra bathroom for the housekeeper. We never bothered to change it, since the space increase is not exactly worth it (plus structural damage).

I made a deal with my girlfriend (1)

Schmye Bubbula (692253) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371077)

I made a deal with my girlfriend: I'd leave the toilet seat down for her, if she'd leave it up for me! Heh! This was a compromise only after she failed to grasp the significance of "The Aerosol Effect": Flushing disperses an aerosol that leaves a disgusting film on the toilet seat, whether the lid is down or not. Ergo, to avoid sitting on it - ugh! - the seat must remain up. (Who has time to wait until the flushing completes to put it back down?)

Solution (2, Insightful)

ChameleonDave (1041178) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371083)

The problem with the whole toilet thing is that sit-down toilets are not designed for men at all.

They are far too low for the height of an average man, which means we are pissing really far, and spray is almost inevitable now and again. Toilets are designed for the lowest common denominator: women and children. Both are shorter than men, and tend to sit.

The solution is simple: urinals should be installed as standard in homes. That way, men can piss in an appropriately masculine way without getting it everywhere, and only sit on the toilet to defecate. Women and children are welcome to keep sitting. The man of the house can keep his own urinal clean (much easier than cleaning a sit-down toilet), the toilet seat can be permanently down, and the bitch can shut up and stop her whining!

Solution: Get a cat (1)

llZENll (545605) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371129)

The cat plays in the toilet which is disgusting, causing you to close both the seat and lid! Both men and women must both open and close, no more yelling, or at least equal opportunity yelling :)

Cost of cleaning is missing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19371163)

and who does it...

Leave the toilet cover down. problem solved (2, Interesting)

Lt.Hawkins (17467) | more than 7 years ago | (#19371169)

Both men and women will have to lift *something* to do anything. Men will lift the cover and seat for #1, and women will just lift the cover for both.

Problem solved. Also keeps pets out of the toilet.
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