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After Ubuntu, Windows Looks Increasingly Bad

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the put-up-yer-dukes dept.

Windows 774

mrcgran writes "Sys-Con has a look at some advantages of using Ubuntu over Windows. 'My recent switch to a single-boot Ubuntu setup on my Thinkpad T60 simply floors me on a regular basis. Most recently it's had to do with the experience of maintaining the software. Fresh from a very long Windows 2000 experience and a four-month Windows XP experience along with a long-time Linux sys admin role puts me in a great position to assess Ubuntu. Three prior attempts over the years at using Linux as my daily desktop OS had me primed for failure. Well, Ubuntu takes Linux where I've long hoped it would go — easy to use, reliable, dependable, great applications too but more on that later. It has some elegance to it — bet you never heard that about a Linux desktop before.'"

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wow, what a popup! (3, Informative)

non (130182) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413623)

who do i thank for that?

Re:wow, what a popup! (5, Funny)

Braino420 (896819) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413997)

what is this "popup" you speak of?

Popup / flash / whatever alert (5, Informative)

hoover (3292) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413629)

I'd flag this as off topic, but that's the worst, adblock plus-evading website I've come across in a while. If that's the destiny of the web, then thanks, but no thanks, from me.

Re:Popup / flash / whatever alert (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413719)

Disable javascript or install fx and the noscript extension. Hopefully the future of the web is no unnecessary javascript due to the potential for abuse.

Oh and the publishers (Sys-con) of this article suck.

Re:Popup / flash / whatever alert (1)

bigtangringo (800328) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413825)

NoScript works wonders.

Granted, I'm reading the print version of the story now, but that's just because their site is so cluttered it's hard to read.

Re:Popup / flash / whatever alert (1)

jd142 (129673) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413893)

As does RIP, Remove It Permanently. Took me a while to find the right place to click for the annoying video though.

Re:Popup / flash / whatever alert (1)

master0ne (655374) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414057)

i wouldnt flag it as off topic as its about the article at hand and your ability to READ it, congratulations for being with the .000001% here that actually RTFA (or try to...)

Print version (4, Informative)

efence (927813) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413643)

Print version [sys-con.com] . The page is really ridden with ads (including a popup and a flash video).

This is Anti-Windows FUD!! ASDF (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413649)

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Well done Steve (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413795)

If you typed all that by yourself I'm impressed, especially since you wrote it standing up (I hear you're chair-hostile) and I don't care what anybody says about monkeys and typewriters.

I'm very impressed with Ubuntu (4, Insightful)

bigtangringo (800328) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413653)

I've been using it at work for the past several months, it accomplishes everything I need. I miss Trillian, Gaim is a mediocre substitute IMHO. I've been very impressed with how good the experience has been, I have yet to find myself thinking "Damn, I wish I had my windows box back."

Now, I'm looking forward to UbuntuDupe's post about how Ubuntu sucks because nobody helped with his troubles using Ubuntu, despite his tantrum on the forums.

Re:I'm very impressed with Ubuntu (1, Interesting)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413793)

Personally I'm a KDE user myself, so for IM I use Kopete. I find it much better than GAIM. For that though, you'll have to use Kunbuntu, or some other distro that supports KDE. I vote for Mandriva.

Re:I'm very impressed with Ubuntu (3, Informative)

WilliamTS99 (942590) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413829)

Actually, you can run kopete perfectly fine on a regular install of Ubuntu, it will just install some kde libs. sudo apt-get install kopete Best Regards

Re:I'm very impressed with Ubuntu (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19414137)

Gaim is no longer called Gaim. It is now Pidgin, and I'd say that with the plug-ins that come with it, it is at least as good as any other IM client

Re:I'm very impressed with Ubuntu (1)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413821)

I miss Trillian, Gaim is a mediocre substitute IMHO

Unless things have changed recently, I always hated that Trillian lagged behind GAIM when updates broke compatability. IIRC, the Trillian group got their fixes from the GAIM guys. I don't need my IM client to be pretty, I just need it to work, and that's GAIM.

Re:I'm very impressed with Ubuntu (3, Informative)

DigDuality (918867) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413847)

you are aware that kde and gnome applications can be used on each other's desktop environment, right?

Re:I'm very impressed with Ubuntu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413871)

And a fitting name. After the (upcoming) 10th flamewar here, UbuntuDupeDupeDupeDupeDupeDupeDupeDupeDupeDupe might be a more fitting /. moniker.

Well maybe not but it's fun to say out loud.

Try it.

Re:I'm very impressed with Ubuntu (1)

uolamer (957159) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413885)

Im going to give Ubuntu a try in a few days. I have had a lot of experience with linux as a stand alone server, but no recent experience to speak of for my main desktop pc, unless you include Gentoo on my PS3, the more I see of the recent linux desktop distros the more im wanting to try one.

Re:I'm very impressed with Ubuntu (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19414135)

So, do you know the other eight people that bought a PS3?

Oh no... here we go again... (2, Informative)

LLKrisJ (1021777) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413659)

... with the Linux vs. Windows chenanigans.

Flamebait I say :s

Are they talking about looks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413663)

It has some elegance to it -- bet you never heard that about a Linux desktop before.
Are they talking looks? I have noticed a bit of a trend by distributions to make "prettier" themes for their desktop of choice, rather it be KDE or Gnome. I have always used fairly simple themes when using Gnome on my laptop. I use englightenment on my desktop (for some reason it just doesn't feel right with a touchpad on my laptop), so I am pretty minimalist in my UI. Is this pretty common among long-time Linux users or just me?

Is it Linux that failed? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413667)

...or the user?

"...a long-time Linux sys admin role puts me in a great position to assess Ubuntu. Three prior attempts over the years at using Linux as my daily desktop OS had me primed for failure."

If a Linux sysadmin can't use Linux on the desktop, it must be a terrible desktop OS! Right? Right? *looks around frantically*

Come on, man. There are plenty of people who have been using Linux as their daily desktop. That would be why there have been so many "desktop" versions of Linux over the years.

Re:Is it Linux that failed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19414049)

I also find it interesting that after a whopping 4 month experience of XP that he is able to know enough about the internal operations, etc to do a fair comparison between the two. XP holds several dozen tools, etc that were not included with 2000, from a user experience standpoint, XP is bounds ahead of 2000, but hey, this guy sounds like such an expert, he has to know what he's talking about. (for the record, I keep looking forward to using linux on the desktop, but the applications I use at home don't really have an exact equivalent on linux...yet)

please help (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413669)

my mom has a myspace page....which is like soooo embarrassing!!!! please troll her into getting rid of it....thanks

                                                                http://www.myspace.com/amandagrashel [myspace.com]

alex

Re:please help (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19414117)

How 'bout if we niggers swing by at about 7pm tonight and all 25 of us rape her and you at the same time. I heard you have a nice tight asshole these days. She will be so fucked up by Big Dog and the crew that she won't even think of using myspace. Bring your Tears.

Signed,
The Myspace Niggers

Print Version (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413687)

Here is the print version to avoid the ad junk that sys-con is: http://linux.sys-con.com/read/382946_p.htm [sys-con.com]

Nice pitch, but... (5, Insightful)

Fx.Dr (915071) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413695)

"Fresh from a very long Windows 2000 experience and a four-month Windows XP experience along with a long-time Linux sys admin role puts me in a great position to assess Ubuntu."

TFA reads less like a comparison of two OS's than an Ubuntu sales pitch. Granted, I use and love Ubuntu, but I like my side-by-sides with a little less bias from the get-go.

Re:Nice pitch, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413785)

I agree 100%. I am also a fan of Ubuntu, but this is one of the most biased articles I have read in a long time.

Re:Nice pitch, but... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19414173)

Agreed. I like LINUX and have heard great things about Umbatu, but his argument is poorly framed and poorly supported. I particularly love some of the apples-to-oranages anticdotes (never good support). For example:

"I needed to resubscribe to Symantec on a Windows machine. Again this is a 30-60 minute timeout from production AND a $49 charge AND a hassle with product keys and sending data about my machine and purchases around to companies that I'd choose not have"

Of course, he could have easily picked up a completely free AV like Avast and had it loaded in 5 minutes (including time to register). It still would not be easier than "no antivirus" (though LINUX has exploits as well), but it would get rid of this false-delemmia posited as though NAV is the only option (though I've never foudn it taking nearly a half-hour to install)

The list goes on and on, from railing about something he "heard Vista did" to complaining about how IBMs auto-restore function failed (as though Windows was somehow related to a pre-OS restore function). It showes either a near-complete lack of comprehension of the subject, or a downright disingenuious Windows-bash.

There are plenty of perfectly good reasons to advocate either OS. I dislike liars pretending to be on a moral high-horse.

Even Apple is looking stale... (1)

nucklebone (749892) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413701)

compared to the Ubuntu experience. And I'm a Mac fanboi! Nice f-ing pup up and audio on that site, by the way. Might be the only time I ever visit.

uhm, no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413703)

along with a long-time Linux sys admin role puts me in a great position to assess Ubuntu.

no, it puts him in a horrible position to assess Ubuntu.

windows is still better for the clueless n00b, which is about 98 percent of computer users.

Kubuntu 7.04 (feisty) ppc (1)

k1980pc (942645) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413707)

I am currently dual booting Kubuntu on my G4 iBook - cannot shell the dough for a leopard upgrade for this and mini..will get an MBP once 10.5 comes in.. It really surprises me with the usability.. It has been quite a while since I have used Linux. Coming from mac world, I can say that (K)ubuntu is really ready for prime time.. All my hardware supported.. Most of the apps work well.. Importantly for me, configuring for java and eclipse needed very less tinkering.. Just need a good photo management app.. Can't use picassa as wine is not available.. it is very unfortunate though that PPC version is only going to be community supported now.

Re:Kubuntu 7.04 (feisty) ppc (1)

wolfgang_spangler (40539) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413917)

fear not, Picasa on Linux [google.com] is available from google.

Try also rawstudio, and fspot

-wolfgnag

Re:Kubuntu 7.04 (feisty) ppc (1)

marsall_banana (995683) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414113)

Check out kflickr, its a kde app for using flickr, haven't tried it myself it sounds like it may be what you're after.

Server 2003 makes a great desktop. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413717)

Reliable. Locked down by default. Runs all the apps, games and multimedia Linux may never have. MS's first good OS deliverable.

I guess they may have compared 2003, but I guess he is just finding out about XP, so he is a little behind the times.

I agree (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19414017)

Windows Server 2003 makes a better desktop than Vista and that isn't necessarily a recommendation.

Re:Server 2003 makes a great desktop. (1)

budcub (92165) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414053)

Server 2003 with Service Pack 2 slipstreamed in and you're all set to go. Only a few patches for April and May 2007 are needed.

I've been doing Server 2003 installs the past few months and recently rebuilt my home PC with XP. XP seems old and dated in comparison to Win2K3.

Re:Server 2003 makes a great desktop. (1)

ericrost (1049312) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414125)

Yes, but the price tag and hardware hogginess makes it a terrible competitor to Ubuntu.

I've been using KDE as my work desktop for years (2, Insightful)

Trigun (685027) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413723)

I've used KDE as my primary work desktop for 5 years. Sometimes there were limitations, but those were easily overcome. Things got even simpler when we switched to terminal services for some of our corporate desktops. E-mail was always an issue with an exchange backend, but Kontact has filled that void since we migrated to Exchange 2000. OpenOffice handled all the spreadsheets, and the applications that I could not run via wine were first handled by an old box using VNC, then remote desktop once that was rolled out.

There were some things that I couldn't do, but there was a lot more that I could do to offset that. With the extra flexibility that linux gave, and the ability to show off an alternate desktop, I would not go back.

Features (2, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413735)

One of the things that's become clear as I've gotten used to the appliance-like experience of Ubuntu is that the future of software in an open source-dominated world is going to be significantly different than the world dominated by Microsoft. So what distant point on the horizon has Ubuntu shone a light on for me? Simple. Software will increasingly compete on ease of use in the total software experience more than on features. The future will be more about being simple than about any other dimension.
Isn't usability and simplicity just another feature? Maybe I'm a bit lost here as to what he's trying to say, I'd sum it up more like this. The future software will be about features and not about proprietary systems and formats that lock you into one vendor.

Re:Features (1)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413913)

I think the message he's trying to get across is that future software won't be a success unless it's easy to use, despite the amount of functionality that the developers cram in to it. I think that is going to be true for the majority of users.

You're right though. Usability and simplicity should be considered features, not just something that you get if things go well.

Whoring for pageviews? (4, Funny)

AeroIllini (726211) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413737)

Linux better than Windows for sysadmin tasks!

News at 11.

Re:Whoring for pageviews? (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413943)

What would be interesting what type of Review would be from a Professional Graphic Artest, Or perhaps from a Windows Adminstrator. This story is just Linux Propaganda to make you feel good about using Linux, and to make sure you have the allusion that Linux could take over the world.

Re:Whoring for pageviews? (1)

frieza79 (947618) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414105)

That would be true, if /.'ers actually read TFA.

Me too! (2, Interesting)

s31523 (926314) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413739)

I switched one of my computers to Ubunutu after my Windows 2000 got yet another set of spyware/virus files that could not easily be removed. For the basic mundane stuff I love it, web browsing especially. I can't tell you how nice it is to know that the probability of getting some spyware or virus or whatever is virtually zero. Will this change as Ubuntu becomes more popular, who knows, but for now, I use Ubuntu for 90% of my web browsing, even on my dual-boot laptop.

What is Ubuntu? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413751)

Is that a new window cleaner?

Re:What is Ubuntu? (1)

crAckZ (1098479) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414103)

Yes it is. It cleans windows...... right off your hard drive. Then your PC will actually work without having to scan it for virii and spyware every boot. then again after your trail edition of "X" antivirus expires you have to find another solution.

and as stated. if your a sysop for linux you should have any trouble with ubuntu.

more evidence (2, Informative)

jcgf (688310) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413755)

I've always found it easier to install linux than windows or at least for the past few years and for the same reasons listed in the article. No virus scanner, no serial numbers, fewer cds, more included software all make it very nice. Installing software is easier in ubuntu too.

Re:more evidence (2, Funny)

hattable (981637) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413889)

It may be a bit too easy in some distributions. I have actually, accidentally installed Linux before. It wasn't a problem but I put in the cd, left for a moment and came back 'ready to get started' and it was over.

Re:more evidence (1)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413991)

Yeah, the installer experience has come a long way and that's arguably one of the greatest advances in Linux. I wonder how many people were put off over the years when they inserted a disk and were thrust in to pdisk or similar? I just installed OpenBSD and love the system but its installation process reminded me of the old days of Linux. Probably not a serious issue though since OpenBSD isn't exactly aimed at the desktop crowd.

Symantec? (4, Informative)

hexed_2050 (841538) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413757)

I'm not sure if the writer was intentionally attempting to jinx the Windows install, but who in the right mind still installs or recommends Symantec/Norton when great products like Kaspersky now exist?

Ever try removing Norton from a system? It's like pulling wisdom teeth!

I understand that virus protection wasn't the main focus of the article, but he did make reference to it, and in the defense of Windows and giving the article a bit more of a balanced test, the testers should at least make sure they are using good 3rd party products.

h

Re:Symantec? (1)

KIFulgore (972701) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413817)

"who in the right mind still installs or recommends Symantec/Norton when great products like Kaspersky now exist?"

Unfortunately many universities still have Symantec as the "free" antivirus for students (academic license).

Here's how to really ruin a tech support department's semester (speaking from experience):

1. Have Dell, HP, and Compaq ship 100s of laptops with WinXP to our students just before Christmas.
2. Have the IT support department recommend Symantec to students.
3. Watch said students get their free "upgrade" to Vista CD in the mail... and royally **** over their machine.

We're staying pretty busy reformatting laptops.

Re:Symantec? (1)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413975)

Ever try removing Norton from a system? It's like pulling wisdom teeth!

Not really. You just have to remember to uninstall LiveReg last.

Sys admin not always the best to assess software. (5, Insightful)

KIFulgore (972701) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413759)

"...along with a long-time Linux sys admin role puts me in a great position to assess Ubuntu"

I find sys admins often don't make the best user-friendly assessments of desktop software and OSs, especially from average Joe's point of view. No offense to the author, who makes many valid points, but I'd rather see a comparison of Ubuntu, Vista, and OS X from a school teacher or small business owner.

Re:Sys admin not always the best to assess softwar (1)

Hacksaw (3678) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413955)

I second that notion.

I'm also worried about the silly statement about security vulnerabilities. "It's Linux, no worries" is one of those stupidly optimistic statements that make me cringe.

If you pay attention to the security announcements, you know that Linux is anything but secure. Better than Windows might be a reasonable statement. His "no worries" makes me wonder how many of his boxes are running irc and spam bots.

Re:Sys admin not always the best to assess softwar (1)

rossz (67331) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414023)

I'm a Linux system administrator and I would agree. I'm really not a good choice to evaluate "average joe" usability.

Re:Sys admin not always the best to assess softwar (1)

Rallion (711805) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414145)

I wholeheartedly agree. When I read that statement, I laughed out loud.

Being knowledgeable about a system that interacts with a user generally puts you in a WORSE position to evaluate it. The perfect tester is a person with no familiarity whatsoever.

Re:Sys admin not always the best to assess softwar (2, Insightful)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414163)

I find sys admins often don't make the best user-friendly assessments of desktop software and OSs, especially from average Joe's point of view. No offense to the author, who makes many valid points, but I'd rather see a comparison of Ubuntu, Vista, and OS X from a school teacher or small business owner.

And this, people, is why Linux will *never* own significant acrege in the desktop market: The people who drive most Linux development *are not* interested in desktop usability and *user* experience. This is not a troll / flamebait / cut, it's simply the truth, the definition of "usability" is very different from Linux developer to "average Joe User".

No, not really. (5, Insightful)

AbandonAllHope (211475) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413771)

...long with a long-time Linux sys admin role puts me in a great position to assess Ubuntu.
Right. Can you imagine the response had someone said "As a long time Windows server admin, I'm in a great position to assess Vista". Seriously, how many more articles about long time linux users "discovering" they love this or that distro are we in for?

$51 for restore disks (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413783)

that is what is wrong with windows and oems they should give free disk and stop useing restore partitions.

No advantage (-1, Troll)

DogDude (805747) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413805)

So then, what's the advantage if you don't have any security problems with Windows? The joy of figuring out how to use a computer all over again? The excitement of finding shoddy knock-offs of the programs that you're used to on the Windows side? The thrill of having to hire very expensive admins to handle stuff that anybody can do in Windows? With each Windows release, Linux seems more and more pointless.

Re:No advantage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413921)

The joy of figuring out how to use a computer all over again?

Only Vista can make this experience a 'joy'.

With each Windows release, Linux seems more and more pointless.

I use OSX and Xfce on linux, both are superior to Windows. I wouldn't wish Gnome or KDE on my worst enemy, that's because I'm the malicious sort and Vista is exactly what the bastards deserve :-o

Re:No advantage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413999)

Hmm. Search and replace:

"So then, what's the advantage if you don't have any security problems with Linux? The joy of figuring out how to use a computer all over again? The excitement of finding shoddy knock-offs of the programs that you're used to on the Linux side? The thrill of having to hire very expensive admins to handle stuff that anybody can do in Linux? With each Linux release, Windows seems more and more pointless."

That's better ;)

Re:No advantage (1)

WilliamTS99 (942590) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414041)

Are these supposed to be real questions, or just your personal beliefs in disguise as questions. Nevermind, I think I already figured it out.

Re:No advantage (1)

Mattintosh (758112) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414169)

what's the advantage if you don't have any security problems with Windows?

The joy of being able to use the internet and still have no security problems.

Will get bashed (4, Insightful)

majortom1981 (949402) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413811)

I will get bashed since slashdot is linux fanboy heaven but this is my experience. Ubuntu will not become mainstream until most isntals work with no command line needed what so ever. i have tried ubuntu on my laptop and on a p3 450 hp comp and both required command line help to get the basic system working.

For system admins linux might be good but if 30 min of fiddling with the command line to just get the system working is needed then it will not become mainstream.

Also on that hp comp ubuntu takes n15 min to boot up. I am not lying. Xp on the same machine is much faster.I tried getting help on some linux boards and all I got were nasty replies.

So there is a lot of things that have to be done before linux becomes mainstream and really fights microsoft.

Go ahead and bash me all you want butthis is true.

Re:Will get bashed (1)

WilliamTS99 (942590) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414109)

I don't think you will get bashed, but everyones experience will be different. I have installed Ubuntu on quite a few more then 2 computers and most installs do work with no command line needed. Hell, my mom installed Ubuntu on her desktop and laptop by herself, no command line work needed. Anyway could you please link to your post on the forums where you got nasty replies? I have only seen nasty replies to people with nasty or rude posts. Also if you haven't tried the new version, maybe request some disks, you might have better luck.

Re:Will get bashed (4, Funny)

icsEater (1093717) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414129)

If you're going to be a troll, at least try to be creative.

I'm sick of all these templatized flamebaits:

1. start with lame attempt at reverse psychology disclaimer.
2. Insert singular bad experience with Linux.
3. Omit all relevant detail so you won't be embarassed when others point out the real source of the problems you were complaining.
4. Recycle old complaints about Linux. Choose from the following:
        a) can't install hardware
        b) my device Blah doesn't work
        c) user interface is ugly
        d) there aren't any games
        e) my software Blah doesn't work
        f) boot time is slow
5. Repeat lame reverse psychology blurb in the beginning.
   

NEWS FLASH! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413815)

nobody gives a fuck what operating system you're using.

Re:NEWS FLASH! (3, Insightful)

no_pets (881013) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414141)

nobody gives a fuck what operating system you're using.
You must be new here.

hmmm (1)

Vexorian (959249) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413827)

I loved Ubuntu when I tried it, but I still use windows a lot, why? Because of some pieces of software that lock me into it and WINE being essentially unable to run them.

But, I'd like to be realistic about this, setting up a printer was still very bad for me in Ubuntu, although that was probably HP to take the blame, the worst thing is that there is no way to make my scanner work on Ubuntu.

There were plenty of good things, OpenOffice in linux is just too good and responsive, I tried it in windows and it is not as good (sorry), I also liked some OO features that I could not find in MSOffice, for me it was a lot easier to make my usual homework in openoffice than in MSWord, seriously.

There are a lot of things that work better in Ubuntu, mainly Web development and CD burning, are things in which Windows is Horribly lacking.

It was also fun (but harder) to try more and more free software everyday, getting free games and emulators was easy, and the package manager made most of the process painless, since often even if you had to compile it, there was no need to compile the libraries, the package manager almost always had the required libraries available to install in few clicks, thus the whole ./configure make make install thing was not as painful as it used to be when I first tried linux.

A downside thus is the default appearance, the good news is that Linux is amazingly friendlier than windowsXP in personalizing aspects (aka, it is actually possible without extra downloads) , I could severely change the look of everything to something more appealing.

And if Linux doesn't sound like a productivity suit, you should try using windows after getting used to exploit the multiple desktops taskbar feature, I miss it so much when I am on windows...

Re:hmmm (2, Interesting)

ParadoxDruid (602583) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414011)

I loved Ubuntu when I tried it, but I still use windows a lot, why? Because of some pieces of software that lock me into it and WINE being essentially unable to run them.

I recently switched my home box from dual-partition to Kubuntu only, so I'm genuinely curious what applications are holding you back. In my experience, there were a few troubling cases, and their resolution:

  • Photoshop. I've tried to like the Gimp, but it's just not there. Luckily, Photoshop 5.0 runs perfectly (and is very responsive) under WINE. If you needed the latest and greatest Photoshop (which I don't, I just use it for simple image processing for academia), it might be a problem, I guess.
  • Games like Oblivion or Halflife. Games held me back for a long time, but WINE has come a long way-- Oblivion runs under normal WINE as good as on windows (except the water is purple instead of blue, huh), and Halflife runs great under Cedega WINE (and maybe under normal WINE, though I haven't tried it). Most games just work with modern WINE.
  • iTunes. I'll admit, I loved iTunes, and I still miss it sometimes. But Amarok manages my music fine, updates my iPod fine, and keeps my podcasts organized fine. If only I could buy iTunes music through Amarok, I'd be set.

Lack of applications used to be a problem with linux, but with modern applications like Amarok, a wonderfully complete (and always getting better) WINE project, and the polished experience and integration of suites like KDE... well, I just don't buy the "my apps aren't there!" anti-Linux argument.

Re:hmmm (1)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414021)

But, I'd like to be realistic about this, setting up a printer was still very bad for me in Ubuntu, although that was probably HP to take the blame, the worst thing is that there is no way to make my scanner work on Ubuntu.
I agree with you that setting up a printer is currently one of the biggest problems. However, it does seem to be improving rapidly. I just installed Fiesty on some machines, and a bunch of the problems I'd had before with setting up the printer had disappeared.

The review is a little nuts, however, because this guy has been a linux user since 1995, and he seems to think that his knowledge and experience are typical. He goes on and on about how much easier it is to install Linux than it is to install Windows -- but it would never occur to the typical user to install an OS in the first place. The typical user doesn't even understand what an OS is. The typical user also has a ton of files locked up in MS formats, and isn't interested in translating them into open formats, and correcting the errors that will inevitably occur in translation. The typical user is afraid to change from IE6 to IE7, or from Word 2003 to Word 2007. Any change freaks them out.

who are ... (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413843)

these people who can't use Linux distros? I've been using Gentoo for a several years now as my primary OS. My desktop only boots it, and my laptop dual boots since some of our customers are lamers in windows.

But when I read summary's like that "Linux is finally ready for the desktop!" it makes me think what fucking rock were they hiding under? I've been using Linux distros to browse the web, develop software, write books, use my PVR hardware, listen to music, play video games, host my websites, etc, etc, etc for years now.

Yeah, sure I hit snags here and there, but I work them out, I don't just throw my hands up in the air and go "oh noes!"

Tom

Re:who are ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19414007)

Yeah, sure I hit snags here and there, but I work them out, I don't just throw my hands up in the air and go "oh noes!"
And that's what makes you different to 99% of computer users out there.

Re:who are ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19414081)

> what fucking rock were they hiding under?

This one [microsoft.com]

Written by a sysadmin? (4, Insightful)

CompMD (522020) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413853)

FTFA:

"2) Vulnerabilities - Windows is like Swiss cheese with so many vulnerabilities that it's sick - you can't connect XP to a public Internet connection (i.e., behind a router is OK but direct to the net isn't). Ubuntu? It's Linux - no worries."

I call bullshit on the author being a Linux admin. I'm not trolling and this certainly isn't flamebait, only truth: "It's Linux - no worries" is a load of crap and everyone here knows it.

Re:Written by a sysadmin? (1)

ericrost (1049312) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414073)

I'm an Ubuntu evangelist, and I felt the same way reading that... oh no, this article is BS... darn.

Sorry, but no matter what OS is on it, unless its a locked down, set up server with no X, I don't put it anywhere near an open connection.

Funny, the verification is "fenced" :)

Re:Written by a sysadmin? (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414091)

Still, I think it's true that virii have spoiled the Windows experience. My Windows XP box at work is misery to use. It's constantly nagging me whether each individual application can access the Internet (and periodically forgets all the times I clicked "Permit Always.") The performance is frequently bogged down by virus scanners, and booting up takes forever for the same reason. I can't even right-click on a locally-stored zipfile without an interruption - "WARNING: this might hurt your system blah blah blah..." click OK to continue.

Linux, I've run since '97 and never really worried about it. I update my sshd and httpd from time to time (I guess a "normal" user wouldn't even need to run those), and I did invest some time in writing firewall rules several years ago. Checking my logfiles, I calculated 1 failed ssh login attempt *per second* over a week's time, but nothing bad ever happens to my system.

So I don't think it's accurate to say Windows and Linux are just the same.

Actually... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19413867)

Well, Ubuntu takes Linux where I've long hoped it would go -- easy to use, reliable, dependable, great applications too but more on that later. It has some elegance to it -- bet you never heard that about a Linux desktop before.'"


Sincd around 2001-2002 I've heard this from Linux people every 6 moths or so (about this distro or that), and each time I try said distro. Each time I was dissapointed, and went back to windows. Last time was last July/August, so I'm actually a bit overdue. It was the latest Ubuntu/Kubuntu then (def an improvment), and I actually went to FreeBSD instead... More typing, more work for my computer, less work for me.

Should I give Linux another try? Maybe when I build my multimedia system, I'll give Kubuntu a try, if it works out, keep it, otherwise go to FreeBSD 7.0, which should be out by then...

But wow I got sidtracked. Regarding the initial quote, again, yes, I've heard that every six months, though the distro will vary, since 2001-2002...

Differing Opinion (1, Troll)

Jalwin (1082419) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413877)

Linux is about as easy to use for new users as a helicopter is to operate. I'm using Ubuntu at work atm and I am a long-time Windows user. I hate having to do things through the terminal and VI is horrible compared to the advanced GUI editors I am used to. Linux still has a long ways to go before it is easy enough to use for the masses (ie you don't have to memorize a lot of crap or mess around in a terminal to do anything). Ubuntu is a step forward though, I've seen older Linux iterations that make me want to cry :O.

Re:Differing Opinion (0, Flamebait)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414055)

Um try gedit, nedit, kate, gvim, kdevelop, etc...

Fuck you. Graphical text editors are NOT new. In fact "nedit" is a motif based editor that [iirc] used to ship with SGI boxes.

As for using the terminal to do things it's not exactly complicated when you have a sane OS. If I want to, say, shut down apache ... /etc/init.d/apache2 stop

Wow, that's both complicated and unintuitive. I mean, what do they really mean by "stop"?

Tom

Re:Differing Opinion (2, Informative)

jimstapleton (999106) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414157)

Your half right.

Your example is neither complicated (correct), or intuitive (incorrect).

Somebody stopping by and playing with Linux will probably have *no* clue what the etc direcotry is, or even to look there. And then telling them what it is for (everyone I have heard has described it as "configuration settings"), they would never guess to *look* there for starting and stopping applications, they would probably look in the .*/bin or .*/sbin direcotries, since those hold applications, if someone gave them a bit more information.

Re:Differing Opinion (2, Informative)

Dystopian Rebel (714995) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414087)

I've seen older Linux iterations that make me want to cry
I think your crying is a personality trait. The default Text Editor in Ubuntu is Gedit. It's easily better than any "advanced" default text editor that Windows has ever provided.

Re:Differing Opinion (1)

WilliamTS99 (942590) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414171)

Just wanted some more insight from you, what is it that you 'have' to do through the terminal? Why are you using VI if you want a graphical editor? I think gedit might be something you want to check out if you are talking about Ubuntu Linux.

It's all true... (0, Redundant)

jodelek (1097977) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413881)

I don't know why or what for people uses Windows. As the author of article said, on Windows you have to: 1) buy all the thing 2) install them ( each app in another way ) 3) update them, after paying for the possibilty of update Windows is terrible thing and I ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO USE LINUX, especially so grate as Ubuntu.

Re:It's all true... (3, Interesting)

jimstapleton (999106) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414079)

huh?

1) buy all the thing

Yeah, I bough all my hardware, theft is usually frowned upon, even if you are using FOSS...

Or were you talking about software?
*Looks at The Gimp icon on his desktop*
*Looks at the Open Office Icons*

Yep, paid *so* much for those! They cost me all of $0.00, I'm gonna go broke!
Seriously, finding free software for Windows is trivial.

2) install them ( each app in another way )

Yep, I have to install stuff to use it. Darn. Whoda thunk.
Oh wait, I install stuff if I use it in Linux. Sometimes by the package fetcher, sometimes by a downloaded package + manager, sometimes by source. Oh, looks there's lots of different ways there too.

In Windows it usually just involves wisards with extremely similar interfaces, where if you want you can put in the CD and keep clicking "next" until done, only having to agree to a EULA. But like Linux, there are the oddballs where you have to go outside of the norm.

3) update them, after paying for the possibilty of update Windows

Yes, because if you have Linux installed, with Xorg 6.9, you will *never* have to upgrade to 7.x to use version 7.x! It's *magical*

Seriously, every complaint in your rant is *just* as applicable to Linux as it is to Windows. The only caveat is that you /have/ to pay for Windows, but you don't have to pay for Linux (you can if you want!), and there's probably more commercial software (but not much less free software) for Windows.

Some people find that Windows and some of that commercial software over the free alternatives. I know, having had a lot of experience with both, I prefer Windows to Linux, Corel Photopaint to The Gimp, etc.

It's all a matter of what you use, how you use it, and you method of looking at and solving problems.

Also, there are some games that will run in windows but not Wine, that's another reason some people use Windows...

People won't always agree with you, get over it.

(And if you try to counter me with that one - I never once said people shouldn't use Linux, I simply said that there are reasons not to use it, which may be valid for some users).

Well (1)

sirindex (1111327) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413883)

How is Ubuntu not the best Linux distro?

For godsake, Mr. Dell uses it!

My own list (1)

Cafe Alpha (891670) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413895)

I have both windows XP Pro and Ubuntu on my laptop.

Ubuntu boots and shuts down much faster than Windows.

The wireless driver is more robust. I have a fairly poor wireless connection in my apartment, and under Windows the best setup I can manage still loses the connection for a few seconds every few minutes - and that screws youtube and all sorts of other programs.

There's no such problem in Ubuntu. The driver probably doesn't time out as quickly.

I could list other things like that where the Ubuntu drivers are more flexible than the windows ones or where there are more options available like traffic shaping etc...

But it does take more expertise to install some things or fix problems in Ubuntu.

Re:My own list (1)

TrappedByMyself (861094) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414059)

I've seen the opposite with Ubuntu. I updated to the latest release and the system lost my network card.
Shrug.

Website unuseable (1)

Gonoff (88518) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413903)

I can't read what it says there. There is a huge advert on the screen suggesting that I click on it to close it. I do not click on popups!

I had to turn off my speakers as well. It would appear that this site has been put together at the design of someone who wants to keep informed users away from it...

not worried about security? (5, Insightful)

bigmaddog (184845) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413909)

From TFA:

1)Viruses - I no longer worry and I no longer need to check my PC - that's a relief. You can pick nits here about security but the bottom line is Ubuntu is orders of magnitude better.

2)Vulnerabilities - Windows is like Swiss cheese with so many vulnerabilities that it's sick - you can't connect XP to a public Internet connection (i.e., behind a router is OK but direct to the net isn't). Ubuntu? It's Linux - no worries.

That's FANTASTIC! Who is this guy and what's his IP?

Yes, MS sucks, Windows sucks, bugs galore and all that, but all nontrivial software is going to have bugs, and some of those bugs will lead to vulnerabilities, and some of those vulnerabilities will lead to viruses, attacks and so on. The reason that there aren't a lot of Linux viruses/attacks prawling around the net is because the Windows population is orders of magnitude larger than than the Linux population, making the choice obvious for any would-be parasite. Maybe Ubuntu is way better software than Windows in any number of ways - ehm, I mean, of course it is, but if it were to sweep Windows clean off the face of the Earth and take its place, you'd be installing Symantec for Ubuntu and worrying about script kiddies, trojans and the like. If Ubuntu is better then it'll be harder to exploit, but exploits will happen - the perceived calm right now exists because too few people are trying to attack the platform.

Linux Security and Noobs (4, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413931)

1) Viruses - I no longer worry and I no longer need to check my PC - that's a relief. You can pick nits here about security but the bottom line is Ubuntu is orders of magnitude better.

2) Vulnerabilities - Windows is like Swiss cheese with so many vulnerabilities that it's sick - you can't connect XP to a public Internet connection (i.e., behind a router is OK but direct to the net isn't). Ubuntu? It's Linux - no worries.

3) Thanks to #1 and #2, I'm free from products like Symantec and Norton and the dollar expense, the complexity of administering them (those pop-ups are annoying and a productivity hit), and wondering when they expire next.
Wow, I wonder where I've heard this before. Sheesh. Yes, Linux has a better security model than the typical "make everyone administrator" model used on Windows systems, but this does not make Linux magically bullet proof. As for not needing anti-virus or anti-spyware software for Linux.. you don't need them for Mac either. Why is that? Cause no-one could be bothered writing a virus or some spyware for such a minuscule amount of the market.

But look at what happened with Firefox. Initially, just like Linux or Mac, no-one bothered trying to break the security. There was no hacks to get around popup blockers, etc. Now Firefox is just a little more popular and the threat landscape has changed.

This isn't to say that Linux can't be made more resilient to viruses if and when they finally show up. It can, and, more importantly, it probably will. Just don't go around saying that Linux is immune to viruses and spyware. Especially, don't go around claiming that this stuff is impossible, because that's exactly the kind of challenge that blackhats go for.

Logical Fallacy (2, Interesting)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414101)

"Cause no-one could be bothered writing a virus or some spyware for such a minuscule amount of the market."

Myth.

It assumes that all three OSs are designed developed and written the same way. they are not.

The person that writes an in the wild virus for OSX will get a lot of notoriety. Probably enough to get funding for their own anti-virus for the Mac company; which could include a multi-million dollar exit strategy when one of the big names buys the company.

Linux and OSX are inherently more secure due to their architecture design.
Are they bullet proof? not likely, but your statement is based on a logical fallacy.

The problem with ubuntu (1)

Programmer_In_Traini (566499) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413967)

The real problem with ubuntu is not ubuntu itself but all that is around it: frickin windows!

The sole reason why i havent switched entirely yet is for all those family members that knows nothing but windows, feel incapable of re-learning it all and that keeps sending me .pps files!

They're all on MSN and uses office XP. Of course i have ways to just be compatible with them, like running a virtual machine, or dual booting and all, but that's what the problem is, why should i have to make my life harder if my OS cannot help me communicate properly with the people around me. but im not blaming ubuntu, im blaming windows for having such a large userbase composed primarily by grannies and pappies.

The List (5, Informative)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 7 years ago | (#19413969)

Whenever these discussions come up, I like to forestall some of the repetition by posting my list of wins for OS X, Windows, and Linux. This is a list of the things each OS does better than some others, not a list of problems. Feel free to post and suggest other items, but please know what you;re talking about. I hate getting posts from people who clearly have never used two of the OS's in question and are simply assuming their favorite OS must do it better.

OS X Wins:

  • Sane UI choices - OS X does not ignore the last two decades worth of human/computer interaction research.
  • System services - global (nearly) spellchecking, dictionary/thesaurus, and plug-in functionality like grammar checking, language translation, only reference lookups, bibliography formatting, etc.
  • OpenStep application bundles - drag and drop installation and uninstallation of most applications, e-mail or IM working programs without having to save installers, run software off an ipod or thumb drive without having to install (including remembering per-machine preferences), easy binaries for multiple platforms, finding resources in packages is much easier and requires no tools.
  • Security - for a variety of reasons that don't matter to most end users, OS X users have never had to worry about malware or worms and probably will not have to in the foreseeable future.
  • Usable shell environment - bash, tcsh, whatever; the CLI on OS X is very usable and powerful and a first class citizen. We'll see if this comparison changes when Monad is released.
  • Automater - scripting usable by secretaries. This is the easiest tool for some tasks and the only automation/scripting I've seen that some novices can quickly learn and use.
  • Included applications - both CLI tools, GUI utilities, and GUI applications, OS X has more and nicer ones than Windows you include iTunes, iPhoto, Preview, etc., etc.
  • Upgrading hardware - upgrading a mac to a mac is as easy as plugging in a firewire cable clicking a button. This saves a lot of time and effort, amazingly better
  • Ubiquitous zeroconf - automatically and instantly finds printers, local chat, streaming music, file shares, and collaborative documents
  • PDF support - create PDFs from everywhere and viewing is fast, fast, fast compared to Vista.
  • Emulation/ports/virtualization/compatability - it is easier to run Linux and Windows software on OS X and there are more options to do so on OS X, than there are to run Linux and OS X apps on Windows (yeah I know about cygwin and Apple's licensing and the relative number of apps)
  • Easier support of third party devices, plug them in and they just work much more often.
  • No Registration - never worry about entering serial numbers or tracking them or you computer deciding you're a dirty pirate.

Windows Vista Wins:

  • Application availability - more developers target Windows and eventually a lot of people want to run some niche software that does not work without Windows
  • Not tied to one hardware vendor - If you run Windows you have more hardware choices and likely get a machine that meets your needs more cheaply than a Mac, as a result.
  • Package manager - Windows has a pretty lame software install/uninstall manager, but it is still better than nothing
  • Antivirus/phishing features - OS X and Linux don't have a lot of need, but this is still not a bad precaution
  • Remote desktop features - have clients for more platforms than OS X's comparable feature, and is better than Linux for a few tasks, but worse for others.
  • Wider support for third party devices, everyone makes a Windows driver, not everyone makes an OS X or Linux driver
  • Easier to find unofficial support from random people you know
  • Indexed searching is useable by default, unlike most Linux distros
  • Default color support has poorer management and accuracy, but wider range
  • Application level granularity of sound controls is useful.

Linux Wins:

  • Diversity of Linux Vendors - you can get different flavors for different uses, and competitive prices on support.
  • Customizable - being open source you can always alter this or pay someone to do so and customize it to your taste or to a corporate environment or special use.
  • Package Management - It's not perfect, but the package management is better than on any other platform I've used.
  • No licensing/registration - since it is free to distribute you don't have to worry about copying to other machines, or any of these issues for functional or legal reasons.
  • Applications over the network - superior granularity, stability, and control as a thin client or simply for running applications on a remote machine.
  • Security - like OS X users, Linux users need not worry about malware or worms and probably will not have to in the foreseeable future. Further, there are more options for super-secure locked-down Linux installs for areas where security needs are extraordinary.
  • Usable shell environment - bash, tcsh, whatever; the CLI on Linux outstrips Windows and is perhaps better than OS X. We'll see if this comparison changes when Monad is released.
  • Emulation/ports/virtualization/compatability -Linux has a lot of good options for running Windows applications, perhaps better even than OS X, but like Windows does not have a lot of options for running OS X applications.
  • Not tied to one hardware vendor - If you run Linux you have more hardware choices and likely get a machine that meets your needs more cheaply than any other OS, as a result.
  • Resource use - a smaller and more customizable footprint than other OS's lets you use this on lesser hardware expanding your choices on the low end.
  • Free as in beer - Linux distros are free and you never have to worry about fees to upgrade if you want to always have the latest and greatest.

So... (1)

Schnapple (262314) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414035)

So someone who has dealt with the nightmares of administering servers for many years now thinks Ubuntu is spiffy in comparison? Someone who deals with the hassles of configuring systems likes a system often chastised by some for requiring administration?

So?

Ubuntu Fonts (2, Informative)

mikeboone (163222) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414067)

I recently ran out of room on my HD for an XP install on my laptop. I bought a new drive and I installed Ubuntu Feisty on it. I was pretty impressed. I was able to do nearly everything I needed, mainly web development stuff. Even the power management seemed to be working. But I could not get the fonts to my liking...for whatever reason they just didn't look right, and they bothered my eyes. None of the settings that I tweaked helped significantly. So for now I'm back to XP, but I will investigate improving Ubuntu's fonts in the meantime.

P.S. One thing I missed from the Windows world was a simple RPN calculator like XCalc.

Sys-Con and Maureen O'Gara - don't forget. (1)

dclozier (1002772) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414123)

It was a while back now but Sys-con [linuxtoday.com] allowed Maureen O'Gara to publicly attack PJ of Groklaw fame. I wish I had realized what I was clicking through to before viewing the article. Being bombarded with the ads from their site just helped enforce my dislike of their services. To Sys-con's credit, they did drop O'gara [lwn.net] , I guess.

Where's the beef? (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 7 years ago | (#19414153)

Is there an article in there, or is it just all ads and a giant pop-up? The dog commercial is cute too, but what about the article?
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