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Xandros CEO Doesnt Agree Linux is Patent Violator

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the on-the-up-and-up dept.

Microsoft 156

whitehartstag writes with a link to a Network World article about statements from Xandros in the wake of their Microsoft deal. Xandros CEO Andreas Typaldos made a point of stating that they don't believe their product violates any of Microsoft's patents. Nor, he said, did the software giant share with them exactly which patents they believe Linux violates. Just the same, he's disappointed with the reaction they've received from the open source community. "Feedback from the Linux community has been on the order of 'you shouldn't really be talking to the devil.' Linux and open-source advocates believe it is a big issue and say the Xandros deal, and another signed by Novell with Microsoft last year, erodes open source licensing provisions especially around intellectual property issues. Indeed, the Free Software Foundation is rewriting its GNU General Public License (GPL) 3.0 to prohibit such patent deals in the future."

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Handy boilerplate, if this dumb trend continues (5, Insightful)

toby (759) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444157)

Future submitters, just keep this text on hand the next time some idiot signs a deal with Microshaft:

$COMPANY made a point of stating that they don't believe their product violates any of Microsoft's patents. Nor, $COMPANY said, did the software giant share with them exactly which patents they believe Linux violates. Just the same, $COMPANY is disappointed with the reaction they've received from the open source community.

It's almost beyond belief that these guys keep giving the community a great big "FUCK YOU", and yet are always surprised when we don't welcome them as liberators, with flowers and open wallets.

I disagree - but I know where you're coming from. (2, Informative)

iknownuttin (1099999) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444319)

Typaldos says that was the genesis of Monday's deal with Microsoft that covered interoperability and IP licensing and included "covenants" to protect customers using Xandros software from any potential patent-infringement claims from Microsoft.

It looks like this company is actually helping the community. They're eliminating the fear that if their product is used, they, the customer, won't have to worry about the big bad MS coming after them. After all, wasn't this the exact same issue that kept folks from adopting Linux when the whole SCO thing was just getting started because they were afraid, and rightfully so, that SCO would come after them?

This deal doesn't look like a cut and dried "bend over and take it" type of thing; to me anyway.

You must be new here. (1, Flamebait)

andrewd18 (989408) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444431)

You must be new here. Anything that suggests Microsoft is doing something good is immediately shot down. Considering the symbol for Microsoft related stories is a picture of Bill Gates' face covered in Borg parts, I'm not surprised.

Re:You must be new here. (4, Insightful)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444719)

Anything that suggests Microsoft is doing something good is immediately shot down.

I fail to see how "pay us and we won't crush you" qualifies as 'doing something good.'

By that metric, the Mafia must be the best guys ever! All they want is your money, and they'll be ever so nice to you.

Re:You must be new here. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19445591)

Mafia Enforcer: Hello sir! Give me your money and I'll be your bestest friend 4 evar!
Linux Distributor: What if I don't want to be your friend?
Mafia Enforcer: I'll break your fucking thumbs.

Two way agreement. (1)

DrYak (748999) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446561)

There's a subtle difference between the Mafia and Microsoft lately :
- Mafia ask only money for protection.
It's a one way transaction.
Also note that the Mafia is known to have really attacked non paying victims.

Microsoft usually make a two way transaction :
- You pay us and we promise we won't crush you for reasons that we can't even show, but believe us there are 253 of them.
- We pay you a big wad of cash and you'll work with us on interoperability (so we'll have some proof to show the EU ? or so they want to get better interoperability in a market where they don't have monopoly and where their products are challenged - the server market ?)
Money goes both ways, and usually the net result is massively in favour of the Linux company.
Also note that a lot of people seriously doubt that Microsoft could really sue anyone on that grounds.

So my opinion :
- I'm not sure the GPLv3 violation are that serious. For the GPLv3 to be violated, Microsoft has to be able to selectively sue some users, while other will be under protection. Microsoft has yet to prove that they can actually sue.
- The net direction of money is a flow that is being injected into development. Specially cross operation, which is actually useful.

Technically Microsoft is currently funding their adversary for a feature that their client has always wanted.

Re:You must be new here. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19444729)

I'd say that it's you who must be new here. Microsoft has been opposed to the principals espoused by the free/open software community from the time of Gates's 'Open Letter to Hobbyists' 31 years ago. Slashdot is heavily frequented by and sympathetic to the developers and users of free and open software.

Re:You must be new here. (1)

azenpunk (1080949) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446731)

Microsoft has long since squandered the benefit of any doubt. It's currently reasonable to assume they are not doing anything good in any ethical sense.

Re:I disagree - but I know where you're coming fro (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19444439)

The GP still outnumbers you by 1099240.

Re:I disagree - but I know where you're coming fro (5, Insightful)

kebes (861706) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444491)

It looks like this company is actually helping the community. They're eliminating the fear that if their product is used, they, the customer, won't have to worry about the big bad MS coming after them.
I guess the problem is that different people have different definitions of 'the community.' Xandros (and you) seem to think that 'the community' is "Xandros and their customers." Whereas others think that 'the community' is "the developers and the users of the software" (and note that those "users" may or may not be Xandros customers).

So, in effect, Xandros is making a deal that puts their 'community' above the community at large, whereas I would argue that the intent of the GPL in general, and the open-source developers that use it, is to create something that the wider community (all developers, all users, including Xandros and their customers) will ultimately benefit from.

I think that as long as companies like Novell and Xandros keep thinking of the community of only being made up of their paying customers, they are missing the point of free software and ultimately will be missing out on the crucial developments that they require to maintain profitability.

Re:I disagree - but I know where you're coming fro (1)

iknownuttin (1099999) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444789)

others think that 'the community' is "the developers and the users of the software" (and note that those "users" may or may not be Xandros customers).,p/>

But doesn't anything that hurts Xandros' customers also hurt the community as you defined them?

As one of their former customers... (1)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446379)

I think that as long as companies like Novell and Xandros keep thinking of the community of only being made up of their paying customers, they are missing the point of free software and ultimately will be missing out on the crucial developments that they require to maintain profitability.

It goes a little deeper than that for me. Myself and many fellow Xandros users spent hours helping each other out and paying Xandros for their distro in the perhaps naive belief that we were helping make Linux profitable and approachable. That paying a company to pay developers would speed along the adoption.

And Xandros pays us back by getting in bed with Microsoft and tops it off by acting surprised when we start installing Ubuntu over the Xandros partition.

Can you say "Duh!" boys and girls? I knew you could!

In a word, "No". (1)

khasim (1285) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444525)

After all, wasn't this the exact same issue that kept folks from adopting Linux when the whole SCO thing was just getting started because they were afraid, and rightfully so, that SCO would come after them?

No. Ever since SCO first started talking, Linux has never stopped gaining market share.

Re:In a word, "No". (2, Funny)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444597)

>No. Ever since SCO first started talking, Linux has never stopped gaining market share.

That is a trend I'm sure the market will correct now that Microsoft has begun to assert its' right to protect its' investment in its' intellectual property.

It will be interesting to compare Windows Server market share versus Linux market share a year from now.

Re:In a word, "No". (2, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444659)

It will be interesting to compare Windows Server market share versus Linux market share a year from now.

It sure will, given that at least up until this whole thing began (I don't have stats for after it) Linux was the only operating system gaining market share, though Windows was mostly holding. This is because Linux takes more seats away from Legacy UNIX than it does from Windows.

Frankly I think that the whole patent flap will have little to no effect on Linux adoption.

Re:In a word, "No". (1)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446005)

Nah. Apple has been slowly gaining market share for a while, so Linux isn't the only OS gaining market share.

Re:In a word, "No". (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446141)

He's probably talking about servers, given that he responded to a post about Windows Server and was mentioning Legacy Unix. And who the fuck buys an Apple server? I know they offered one as a testbed for OS X but the server is one place Apple has never really tried to get in on.

Re:I disagree - but I know where you're coming fro (1)

azrider (918631) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444809)

It looks like this company is actually helping the community. They're eliminating the fear that if their product is used, they, the customer, won't have to worry about the big bad MS coming after them.
You are exactly right. The customer won't have to fear that MS is coming after them, they will know it for a fact

Re:I disagree - but I know where you're coming fro (1)

Blob Pet (86206) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445297)

In the end, they aren't helping anybody. They are, in effect, affirming all the FUD that MS has generated about Linux violating their software patents. The community can potentially get screwed over because anyone not using Novell or Xandros are then subject to lawsuits.

These deals are not meant to "eliminate" fear (5, Insightful)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445777)

Just the opposite.

Msft wants the public to believe that *only* novell and xandros can be used without fear. Where does that leave redhat, which has about 75% of the enterprise market? Or Debian, or Ubuntu, or Mandrake, or Slackware?

The very fact that these deals are made makes Linux look dirtry - which is of course the idea. These companies take msft fud money to help msft imply that linux is a legal mine-field.

Re:I disagree - but I know where you're coming fro (3, Interesting)

burnin1965 (535071) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445829)

They're eliminating the fear that if their product is used, they, the customer, won't have to worry about the big bad MS coming after them.

And exactly what is the Xandros product? Just an FYI, Xandros does not own linux, they distriute linux which is licensed to them by the owners of the copyrights under the GPL. The Novell and Xandros deals are BS because they are linux distributors and at best a small player in the development of linux.

From the base of the kernel source code I ran an egrep -ir "Xandros" * | egrep "Copyright" and came up with nothing, for Novell there was only one. If you try something like "Red Hat" or "IBM" or "Hewlett" you come up with a list of multiple copyrights.

So is Microsoft signing a deal with Xandros to not go after their customers for the services that Xandros provides? Its definitely not for any Xandros intellectual property.

 

wasn't this the exact same issue that kept folks from adopting Linux when the whole SCO thing was just getting started because they were afraid, and rightfully so, that SCO would come after them?

It is the same issue, both are based on posturing rather than facts, linux adoption did not stop, and there was no reason to fear The SCO Group unless you were a previous customer of the original SCO. The SCO Group professed loudly the same threats in the press but in the end they didn't go after a single linux user, they went after their own customers who did business with them in the past.

So if The SCO Group is any hint of what will happen its likely the people who are signing deals with Microsoft are the ones who will get screwed.

Not quite... (3, Insightful)

Eric Damron (553630) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446643)

"They're eliminating the fear that if their product is used, they, the customer, won't have to worry about the big bad MS coming after them."

No, they're trying to create fear that Linux contains their IP. They want to eliminate all free as in beer versions of Linux. This is just step two of their plan. The SCO litigation was step one.

Re:Handy boilerplate, if this dumb trend continues (4, Insightful)

RevHawk (855772) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444391)

"We're dissapointed in the way the community is handling this..." Here's a note for you Xandros & Co. - The community owes you nothing. Not dignity. Not respect. Nothing. The community continually develops and improves a product for free - you take it, modify it, and profit from it. Without them your business doesn't exist. Stop complaining. Communities are fickle.

Handy boilerplate, if this GPL continues (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19444785)

"The community owes you nothing. Not dignity. Not respect. Nothing."

That cuts both ways. So please keep the above attitude in mind next time you all are complaining about binary blobs, and unreleased specs, and "whaaa! no one's dumping their proprietary (but working) solutions for our untested, barely documented, and a 1000 eyes couldn't cut it, open source software"

"The community continually develops and improves a product for free - you take it, modify it, and profit from it. Without them your business doesn't exist."

Sounds like a reason to NOT depend upon the GPL. Are you certain you're an advocate?

Re:Handy boilerplate, if this dumb trend continues (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19444667)

"It's almost beyond belief that these guys keep giving the community a great big "FUCK YOU", and yet are always surprised when we don't welcome them as liberators, with flowers and open wallets."

Why shouldn't Xandros?

Some guys on Slashdot wrote a few +5 Insightful posts like yours?

In the end the open source world will fall all over themselves trying to prove just what a 'reasonable' bunch of people they are and 'look for the good side of the deal' and spout drivel like 'you know, Microsoft isn't ALWAYS evil' and the like.

The Microsoft execs up in Redmond must be disgusted by how easily they are undermining the entire open source world and dividing the Linux world into MS controlled/patent safe and too dangerous for commercial use sides.

Re:Handy boilerplate, if this dumb trend continues (2, Informative)

wwrmn (42399) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444685)

There's 2 ways to look at it that I see:

1) They're buying 'insurance' so they won't get out-lawyered and sued out of existence by an 800 pound gorilla in the future, a gorilla that out foxed the US Justice Department IMO, and did it while the *rest* of the US government was still paying them money ass over tea kettle to do it.
2) They're paying 'protection money', like insuring your store from the mob and an 'accidental' burning.

There's probably more I haven't thought of, and while I don't agree with their decision or understand their motives, it's not my business to run.

Re:Handy boilerplate, if this dumb trend continues (2, Interesting)

HermMunster (972336) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445757)

Microsoft does not seek to indemnify the Linux industry. It does not seek to indemnify Novell nor Xandros, nor LG, nor any other. It seeks to divide. By dividing they conquerer. If they can cut into the unified front they'll have a greater chance of winning against some or many. The companies that enter such agreements should be shunned as entities within the Linux industry. They should be considered non-entities and not part of Linux. They should not be allowed to continue to distribute Linux in any form. All those that create open source products for Linux should explicitly deny license to any of these companies. You don't need GPL V3 to do that. You can simply make it part of your own copyright allowance.

When the critical pieces are removed from these systems then they have no more product to distribute. Maybe they'll move on to BSD or something else.

This is simply divide and conquer. It is very old tactic. It is also commonly used. This is not conspiratorial. Microsoft simply wants to eliminate as many Linux allies as possible before hand by creating allies of their own. In the end they get all the IP when they allow their newly formed allies to die. It's a two pronged attack. It is one attack that they divide and conquer us and another to have us kill their allies (which used to be our allies). Either way, it works for them. It's so simple I can't believe you guys don't see it. To have Xandros enter into such an agreement is a death knell for them and Microsoft knows this. Any piece of the Linux industry that dies and is aided in death by the Linux community is a win for Microsoft.

Nonetheless, we need to cut the rotten meat from the calf in order to grow stronger. When Xandros dies and when Novell is too weak to continue we'll be stronger because those that know what is at stake will aid us at becoming stronger.

Microsoft knows that this is a tactic to delay things. It is a big gamble that we won't see what they are doing until it is too late. What they fail to understand is that millions of minds using and supporting the Linux industry is much better than the drones at MS creating DRM infected crap-ware. Nonetheless, they still will end up with a lot more money before it is all over. They know this will delay adoption. Every company that does indeed enter into an agreement extends the length of time that there will be a delay.

If we are not careful there'll be no Linux distributed without Microsoft's permission.

Also, the CEO of Xandros spoke around the fact that Microsoft allegedly told them anything specific. He should tell us exactly, in their words, what was said by them. You don't just enter into an agreement without knowing all the ins and outs. At least you better not. If you are entering into such agreements you are essentially slitting your own wrists. Apple didn't take enough care when they entered into the agreement with Microsoft over the GUI and Gates let them know that in no uncertain terms. I can guarantee you that Microsoft has gotten a lot better at entering into contracts with all sorts of unscrupulous clauses. Xandros and Novell had better watch out.

This should be a warning that the levy could break and a lot more companies enter into such agreements with the Devil.

Re:Handy boilerplate, if this dumb trend continues (1)

Citizen of Earth (569446) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445425)

these guys keep giving the community a great big "FUCK YOU"

I suspect that, like with Novell, the deal is that a struggling company takes a big pay-day from Microsoft without doing anything. I hereby dub my copy of Fedora 7 as Citizen of Earth's Linux Distribution, Release 1.0 and indicate to Microsoft that I am open to accepting $BOATLOADS from them in an 'interoperability' agreement.

Re:Handy boilerplate, if this dumb trend continues (1)

HermMunster (972336) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445531)

If you've looked at Xandros lately you know they are basically trying to be a lesser version of Linspire only they are failing. Xandros is far too restricted in what they produce and how often they do so. The bottom line is that it doesn't take this agreement they've entered into to make the Linux industry resent them. The lack of quality and of product does that itself.

Why would this guy be disappointed. He knew the overall industry reaction when Novell entered into the agreement. He's simply making pacts with the devil for short term gain while essentially writing off his whole company in the long term. He has no power and has no real base so he's going to just wither away and become a non-entity in the Linux industry. Maybe this is his plan. He has no real stock holders and this is just a fast way for them to make some serious money and get out. To bad he's willing to sacrifice his company to do so. I guess devilish minds think alike.

to Debian developers (1)

alizard (107678) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446723)

Any chance of unplugging Xandros developers from Debian repository access?

Completely inacurate (4, Insightful)

CaptainPatent (1087643) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444247)

Until Microsoft actually reveals the patents that are being "violated" it really can't be judged what patents (if any) do and don't violate Microsoft patents. Until this happens, all we are being fed is hearsay and speculation.

Re:Completely inacurate (0, Offtopic)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444361)

Until McCarthy actually reveals the people in the State department that are "communists" it really can't be judged which people (if any) in the State Department are and aren't communists. Until this happens, all we are being fed is hearsay and speculation.

There are too many violations (1)

The_Abortionist (930834) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444555)

It seems that Linus has been sprinkling microsoft IP into the stolen SCO code to make it harder to detect.

I'm thinking it's no coincidence he changed source management about that time as well. Nothing like deleting past versions to hide the tracks.

But let the bygones be bygones. Linux can still evolve by lifting portions of Solaris now that is has been made open by Sun. D-Trace, ZFS, zones are probably just around the corner for Linux. No legal issues this time!

ps: What's Xandros? Is it another distribution? I use Centos and Ubuntu..

Re:Completely inacurate (1)

Archiviste (323238) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444775)

Until Microsoft actually reveals the patents that are being "violated" it really can't be judged what patents (if any) do and don't violate Microsoft patents. Until this happens, all we are being fed is hearsay and speculation.

Let me fix that for you...

Until Microsoft actually reveals the patents that are being "violated" it really can't be judged what patents (if any) do and don't violate Microsoft patents. Until this happens, all we are being fed is Fear, uncertainty and doubt.

There, much better...

Re:Completely inacurate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19446481)

Isn't harassment illegal? because this is truely what M$ is doing to the Open Source community and it's developers. Hmmm... sounds like a good case for the people to take against M$.

Re:Completely inacurate (1)

rhizome (115711) | more than 7 years ago | (#19447189)

Until Microsoft actually reveals the patents that are being "violated" it really can't be judged what patents (if any) do and don't violate Microsoft patents. Until this happens, all we are being fed is hearsay and speculation.

Microsoft is the Dick Cheney of the computer industry (and/or Dick Cheney is the Microsoft of politics). There are as many Microsoft patents being violated by Linux as there are WMDs in Iraq. Trust the words of Microsoft at your peril.

This guy has forgotten who the real engineers are (4, Insightful)

div_2n (525075) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444253)

FTFA: The customer in the market place is dictating what we are doing, not my engineers

You are using a tremendous amount of software your engineers didn't write. I'd say that inevitably, the authors of that software will dictate what you are doing. You and the customers are just enjoying the ride with their permission. Try to remember that the next time you throw dirt in their eyes--assuming you get that chance.

At least they listen to their customers.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19444773)

At least they listen to their customers. I would like to see a lot more open source projects, and the companies that may be behind them, listen to their customers or users more.

Take NetBeans, for instance. In terms of its features, it's quite a nice IDE. I know a lot of people who especially like its text editor. Unfortunately, the whole IDE is damn slow. It's not unusual for it to lock up for a second or two while repainting, even on very modern multi-processor systems with tons of RAM.

I don't know if this slowness is due to its use of Swing, due to its use of Java, or what. All I know is that Eclipse runs far faster on the same systems when performing similar tasks, so I suppose it may be a problem with Swing. That said, a lot of people have requested that the responsiveness problems of NetBeans be addressed, rather than more new features added. Unfortunately, those requests seem to fall on deaf ears. Each release of NetBeans gets slower and slower and slower and slower. It's nearly at the point now where I'll have to switch to Eclipse just to remain somewhat productive, as the lag of NetBeans is really starting to hurt.

Oh, they will have another chance. (1)

twitter (104583) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445201)

That's the nice thing about free software - everyone is always invited to the party.

GPL 3 is going to sink such deals, so the outcome is little more than noise and some M$ money in Xandros pockets. Sure I'm disappointed, but I'm not going to let it worry me.

So You Made a Deal... (3, Interesting)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444261)

So you made a deal with Microsoft without even knowing what the deal covers. How dumb is that? Would you ever make a deal with me under those grounds?

Especially when significant money is involved?

Are you competent to even run this company?

Re:So You Made a Deal... (2, Interesting)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444381)

That's what insurance is.

Personally, if I could get Microsoft to sign something saying that would never sue me (for anything), I'd find the money somewhere to pay for it. In fact, if I can find someone who will give me a get out of jail free card for any major corporation, I could have a lot of fun :)

Re:So You Made a Deal... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19444759)

That's what insurance is.


How so? If I buy car insurance, I know what risks I am covering: collision, uninsured drivers, etc. If I buy house insurance, I know what risks I am covering: fire, flood, etc. If I buy "Microsoft insurance for Linux", what risks am I covering? Citing "un-specified patent violations" is not good enough, you cannot buy insurance for "unspecified threats", unless it is the mob coming by to compliment you on your car or house and how shameful it would be if something bad happened to it. Last I checked, this kind of extortion was illegal. How is what Microsoft is doing ANY different than extortion?

Re:So You Made a Deal... (1)

russ1337 (938915) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445041)

I agree. I also notice that insurance companies come looking for more money each term.... how long till microsoft asks for more money? (Just like the mob).

i.e We won't lawyer up on you (break your knee caps) unless you pay us money... or at least until we want more money.

Re:So You Made a Deal... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19444909)

if I can find someone who will give me a get out of jail free card for any major corporation

In a sane world, the fact that you're always on slashdot playing the subversive would negate any chance of that happening. However executives are complete fucking morons so I'd say you're odds on even. Have fun.



Did Microsoft pay them too? (1)

Luft08091950 (1101097) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444269)

If they don't believe that their product violates any of Microsoft's patents then why did they enter into this arrangement?

The only reason I can think of is if Microsoft paid them some big bucks like they did with Novell. If this is true then Microsoft appears to be willing to pay through the nose for a FUD campaign.

Re:Did Microsoft pay them too? (1)

Stanistani (808333) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444321)

Microsoft certainly has the available cash, the motive (FUD Linux), and no downside - it's not like the Linux community is looking to them for friendship.

Face it, this is the real face of Microsoft becoming manifest at last. Ignore any "Linux Evangelists" they hire.

Re:Did Microsoft pay them too? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19444527)

In Soviet Russia patents violate you!

you should be ashamed of yourselves (1)

non (130182) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444287)

i expected a list of infringing patents accompanied by a 50-page NDA. you knuckled under in the face of a bunch of hot air.

GCC (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444301)

The modern software world is pretty much ruled by GCC. It would be interesting to see what happens when that one's license changes to GPL3.

Re:GCC (1)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444497)

erm... not much

The output of GCC is still not covered under the GPL, never has been, never will be.

Never will be? (0, Troll)

mbessey (304651) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445609)

Do you happen to have a reference for that claim? Has anyone from FSF ever publically stated that they have no interest in making the output of GCC covered by the GPL?

Given Stallman and the FSF's recent power-grab with the "anti-tivoisation" language in the GPLv3, why wouldn't they change the license such that anything compiled with GCC is automatically covered by the GPL, as well?

Re:Never will be? (1)

statusbar (314703) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445939)

Do you have a reference for your claim that GCC generates derived works or may be modified to? Stallman has publicly supported different licenses for different projects - including the BSD license for specific situations.

FSF/GNU own the copyright to GCC... They can do anything they want with it. Just like microsoft had at one time special wording in their Visual C++ license saying that you were not allowed to create a competitor to Word/Office with it.

--jeffk++

Re:GCC (1, Troll)

2short (466733) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444577)

"The modern software world is pretty much ruled by GCC"

What color is the sky in your world? GCC is a mighty fine thing, but it's not remotely the only (or even the dominant) compiler out there.

"It would be interesting to see what happens when that one's license changes to GPL3."

Why? It won't effect programs compiled by it any more than the current license does. Even in your fantasy-land where GCC is a major player in commercial software development, it going to v3 wouldn't make any difference.

Re:GCC (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444689)

What color is the sky in your world? GCC is a mighty fine thing, but it's not remotely the only (or even the dominant) compiler out there.

GCC is however by far the dominant compiler in the Free Software world, and Linux is made of Free Software.

Re:GCC (1)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445131)

GCC is however by far the dominant compiler in the Free Software world, and Linux is made of Free Software.

It should be noted that the grandparent to your post said the "modern software world" is pretty much ruled by GCC. Not "Free" software. The modern software world.

Free software is by no means even the majority of the modern software world. By that token, GCC is nowhere close to ruling the modern software world.

In reality, GCC is basically a bit player in the modern software world. Granted, it's a very nice part of the modern software world, but it's still only a small part of the software world.

Re:GCC (1)

civilizedINTENSITY (45686) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446165)

Wonders: what percentage of new code generated over the last three years was Open vs Closed? Does anyone out there estimate this sort of thing for a living?

Re:GCC (1)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446655)

Considering the fact that most companies I've had dealings with keep most of their stuff closed (and this holds true for pretty much all of my friends in the business as well), I'd say the percentage is pretty small.

Granted, there are a number of companies that sponsor open source projects and quite a few people that work on open source software in their off time (usually as a hobby, to learn a new skill/language, or to scratch their own itches), but I'd say they're heavily outweighed by the places that create closed source stuff both for the public consumption and their own internal use.

Let's put pressure on MSFT to put up or shut up (4, Informative)

christian.einfeldt (874074) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444331)

IMHO, Microsoft's patent claims lack merit, for several reasons: prior art; obviousness; and limits on patenting math. Let's turn up the volume on our doubt of Microsoft's claims. Please challenge Microsoft to sue you (yes, you AND your company) by signing this list of 1,395 people who doubt Microsoft's patent claims:

http://digitaltippingpoint.com/wiki/index.php?titl e=SMFM_list_page_11 [digitaltippingpoint.com]

Re:Let's put pressure on MSFT to put up or shut up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19446261)

Even though this is a good attempt to bring Microsoft back to reality, I say the citizens globally, if not just in the US should sue M$ for obvious reasons. It is easy to see why their code should be opened up and reviewed by different entities to verify the code, and to see how much IP that they themselves have stolen from other companies.

It's easy for them to hide behind the closed code scheme to make it hard for others to prove IP of other companies have been violated. Yet you cann't tell me that they haven't violated IP. With yhe avalibiliy to hide behind closed code and claim they can't show their code because of the potiental hazards or loss to the product and the company is a lame excuse.

Look how long Open Source and Linux companies have survived, even without the high volumes of sales like Microsoft. Microsoft realizes that the close code gives them stall tactics, just like they used in the M$ anti-trust cases. During the antitrust cases, they shifted the game when the code was threatened to be open and the company was threatened to be split up.

I think it is time to make them *prove* that they have not violated other IP with all OS that they have built (I use built loosely).

Enough with the Linux and global citzens being threatened by Microsoft, weither it be about Linux IP issues or GWA (Genuine Windows Adantage) - it's time for Microsoft to go through a little scrutiny to prove how legit they are. OPEN THE CODE Microsoft and prove that your are LEGIT!

I think we all know the truth of what would happen if they did.

Sure looks like alot of OXS, Mozilla, and Linux IP you have under that closed code there M$. Would you mind explaining?

Re:Let's put pressure on MSFT to put up or shut up (3, Informative)

gujo-odori (473191) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446395)

I usually don't bother replying to AC posts, but I need to comment on this.

While I do not claim to be in a position to definitely answer the question, "Does Microsoft have any misappropriated code anywhere in any of its products?" I am a former Microsoft employee (but not a Microsoft apologist; I didn't much care for it there, would not work there again, and am a Linux and Mac user, not a Windows user), and I would be pretty surprised if there is an misappropriated code.

To know why I think so, you have to understand that Microsoft lives in fear of the GPL. LCA (Legal and Corporate Affairs) has very strict rules about touching open source code, and Microsoft developers are not supposed to even download or look at code under the GPL or similar licenses, not even on their own time, for fear of liability if any similar-looking code should subsequently get into any MSFT product. They are very serious about that. I'm sure anyone caught incorporating anything under a GPL-like license into a Microsoft product would be escorted to the door by security.

Microsoft may be guilty of a multitude of sins, but I'm quite sure that secretly using GPLed code is not among them. Both its fear and loathing of the GPL and the potential losses - in terms of face and code, as well as money - should it be caught doing so are simply to great.

Re:Let's put pressure on MSFT to put up or shut up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19446875)

Also, there is this site [suemelinux.com] which looks like it is in early development.

Making friends with the crocodile. (1)

geoff lane (93738) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444335)

It's a rare company that has survived a close friendship with Microsoft. Still, it's always good to have an example to warn off future companies who think that they can deal with Microsoft as equals.

TMBG quote FTW! (1, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444359)

"Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding" -- Your Racist Friend [lyricsdepot.com] by They Might Be Giants (from the album Flood)

Re:TMBG quote FTW! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19444721)

FTW in subject FTL. Go back to GameFAQs

Re:TMBG quote FTW! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19446189)

Fuck the World in subject Faster-than-Light?

No Idea What They're Doing (3, Insightful)

Otter Escaping North (945051) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444385)

From TFA:

"We did not discuss patents [with Microsoft] and we don't think Linux violates any patents and we were not asked about it," Typaldos said. "It is a non-issue for us."

...then...

"Linux says it does not infringe on patents, Microsoft say otherwise. But customers say let me buy some insurance because if there are any flying sparks I don't want to be caught in the middle of that."

Typaldos says that was the genesis of Monday's deal with Microsoft that covered interoperability and IP licensing and included "covenants" to protect customers using Xandros software from any potential patent-infringement claims from Microsoft.

If Microsoft is running around shrieking about patents, and if your customers are demanding you do something because they are feeling vulnerable about patents, and then you strike a deal on that very issue - but don't talk about patents, then you don't know what the hell you're doing.

This chicanery hasn't yet hit a distro that I use, but it's a trend that really should stop.

Re:No Idea What They're Doing (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444501)

This chicanery hasn't yet hit a distro that I use, but it's a trend that really should stop.

It bothers me too, but at the same time we're learning valuable lessons about who we can and cannot trust.

Everyone who signs one of these agreements with Microsoft simply goes on my "do not buy -- ever" list. And I would assume that many others are doing the same.

Making these deals now might help them retain or even attract certain specific customers, but in the long run when we are all looking back on this, we'll be avoiding those companies which knuckled under and kowtowed to Microsoft.

I went with Linux [originally] specifically to get away from Microsoft! It's become my refuge from their incompetence, and I refuse to help anyone who compromises that.

Re:No Idea What They're Doing (1)

Locutus (9039) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445785)

what would be helpful is a fork of every distro that buckles to Microsofts sweet candy of cash for protection. Also, the public should be told that any distro which co-mingles Microsofts software with its Linux code must be isolated since Microsoft will NOT let Linux exist with Windows. Windows is what makes Microsoft work, Windows is what gives Microsoft control, Windows is what Microsoft has gone out of it's way both legally and illegally for almost 20 years. They will not let Linux users continue to use it no matter what you sign today. It won't last forever and they WILL make you pay so much you'll wish you never heard the word Linux.

Forking the distros would be one say to allow current users to keep up and yet be safe from future threats from Microsoft. Even if those threats are just increased licensing fees for unknown claimed IP.

LoB

wha? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19444411)

"We did not discuss patents [with Microsoft] and we don't think Linux violates any patents and we were not asked about it," Typaldos said.

Typaldos, so you entered into a patent agreement with Micosoft including an agreement that Microsoft would not sue your customers over Microsoft patents w/o even discussing patents?

I have been a long-time Xandros customer. But, with this type of mindless drool, I will no longer be a customer nor will I ever again recommend any of your services for consideration.

You sheep. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19444427)

I wonder if teh /. community (and the FOSS community in general) would be so fuckin' uppity if these Linux deals were struck with Apple instead.

You fucking hypocrites.

Are you aware of msft's history and reputaion? (3, Informative)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445893)

We are talking about a company that outright lied the USA-DOJ, and the EU, A company which has been caught red-handed in numerous scams, and outright theft. A company with a very well documented history of numerous mis-information campaigns.

Msft is funding the scox-scam, stold stacker technology, hires bloggers to post msft propaganda, hires shill journalists like Enderle, files dozens - if not hundreds - of bogus patents, and creates fake think-tanks. Msft is currently running a enormous fud campain against ODF - and ruined the career of Peter Quinn along the way. Msft has been caught secretly sponsoring fake TCO studies, and fake benchmarking studies.

Not to mention tax scams and racketeering.

Msft astroturfing:
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/24514/ [lxer.com]

Fake TCO:
http://os.newsforge.com/print.pl?sid=05/06/23/2027 229 [newsforge.com]

Microsoft Tax Scam
http://multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/mm1297.08.ht ml [multinationalmonitor.org]

Bestbuy rackteering
http://consumerist.com/consumer/lawsuits/best-buy- attorney-admits-to-falsifying-emails-in-racketeeri ng-case-266395.php [consumerist.com]

job search (1)

splatterboy (815820) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444463)

Didn't this happen at least ten times with SCO?? A company/CEO signs a deal with a very unpopular/hostile to the free/open source movement and the CEO/PHB always manages to be "shocked" by the angry response of the community... Do these guys read anything besides pr0n? The Novell (and reactions from the 'community') deal was front page news... This guy must be looking for a job in the White House

It doesn't matter what he is saying... (2, Insightful)

Hymer (856453) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444637)

...the signal they are sending to customers and (worse yet) potential customers is what matters...
...and that signal is: "Yes we do belive Linux is violating Microsoft's patents."
Do not sign those deals, Microsoft will kill you wheather you sign or not and you are giving them more ammo to kill you with.

This sucks. (1)

Adult film producer (866485) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444745)

Maybe the linux kernel & lots of gnu software does infringe on microsoft patents. That's a very real possiblity, I don't know for sure though. What sucks is that microsoft can hide any patent violations in their closed/hidden source software. Is there a way to force them in court to open it up so third parties can go on a fishing expedition of their code?

Deals like this with MS seem to be suicide (2, Interesting)

jpetts (208163) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444787)

Is it me, or do these companies not see that for the majority of distros these are simply an complex form of suicide?

It looks as though they get whispered blandishments from MS that this will make them special and unique, and improve their attractiveness to their customers, but all I can see is that a lot of individuals and SMEs will automatically exclude them from consideration as a distro after the deal is inked.

An alternative interpretation is that the people who sign the deals stand to make $$$ from the deals, and they see that as better than being YALD (Yet Another Linux Distro).

I'm likely missing something, of course...

I'm *not* guilty! (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444851)

Defendant: I'm *not* guilty, I totally didn't kill that guy.

Community: But.. [looks in a the report paper] why did you bought the judge flowers, then bribed her, then threatened her if "she doesn't behave"?

Defendant: Have you seen her? She's a very hot chick. I just totally dig her. It's got nothing to do with my case. I mean, we all like a hot chick. You gays or something? I'm disappointed.

You're all aiming for the WRONG TARGET (2, Insightful)

Sesostris III (730910) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444887)

The target that you should be aiming for regarding these patent agreements is not Xandros, or Novell, or even Microsoft. It should be the borked Software Patent laws that you've got in the US. Fix those, and you'll have no need of any patent agreemetns, or any patent clauses in the GPLv3.

So, where are the details of the letters you're all sending to your Senators / Congress-people? (You ARE sending them aren't you???) Where is the campaign to change the law? If you lot spent half the time trying to amend legislation that you do bitching about Xandros /Novell, then you might actually achieve something.

(I can't do anything, as where I'm from we don't have software patents. Software clauses in the GPLv3, or patent agreements between Xandros / Novell and Microsoft mean nothing to me, as they are irrelevant. However, seeing various parts of the Linux community slag into each other because of the uncertainty caused by a borked patent system pisses me off royally - FIX YOUR PATENT SYSTEM!!!)

Sesostris III

Re:You're all aiming for the WRONG TARGET (1)

kungfoolery (1022787) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444995)

Agreed. Again, back to the lawyers. Sheesh.

Re:You're all aiming for the WRONG TARGET (1)

kcbrown (7426) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445745)

So, where are the details of the letters you're all sending to your Senators / Congress-people? (You ARE sending them aren't you???) Where is the campaign to change the law? If you lot spent half the time trying to amend legislation that you do bitching about Xandros /Novell, then you might actually achieve something.

Letters such as what you suggest will only go one place: the dustbin. That is, unless they're all accompanied by multi-thousand-dollar bribes (oh, sorry, did I say that? I meant "campaign contributions"). And even then, it's doubtful that it'll have any real impact.

Congresspeople don't care about their constituents. Their constituents aren't the reason they're in office. The reason they're in office is that they had enough in the way of money (which they got from corporate campaign contributions) and good relations with the media corporations to get sufficient media exposure and to avoid getting shown in a bad light by the media. And that's after they struck a deal with the people who run their party and/or the really big corporations to get them onto the ballot to begin with.

I mean, really. Can you point to any letter writing campaign that wasn't also accompanied by a lot of money changing hands that resulted in any substantive change in Congress' stance on any issue of any importance? No? Didn't think so.

So please feel free to continue to live in a fantasy world where individual voters actually have real influence over the direction of the government. Out here in the real world, they don't. The system is so completely broken that nothing short of violent revolution will fix it, and that's not even something that can work anymore. Not as long as the government controls all the big guns, anyway.

Anyway, the bottom line here is that the best way to influence the system is to somehow exert influence over those who really control the government today: the big multinational corporations. That means somehow screwing up their plans for world domination. If that means turning our backs on those small players who are stupid enough to "make friends" with the enemies of freedom (like Microsoft), so be it. And before you label this flamebait for that last remark, think about all the things Microsoft has done to restrict the freedom of their users (DRM, "Genuine Advantage", activation keys, etc., etc.) and examine their current behaviour regarding patents. There's no pro-freedom actions to be found there...

Microsoft fail patent legitimacy?That unpossible! (1)

kungfoolery (1022787) | more than 7 years ago | (#19444949)

I find it amusing and utterly hypocritical that Microsoft is pulling the IP rights trick. They've literally written the book on such maneuvers. I don't think I have to enumerate them here as the audience is probably quite well versed on this. You can basically write the entire NT kernel and Explorer shell from examples garnered elsewhere - open source or not. Good luck on trying to prove this case, btw. IP is literally a galaxies worth of spiderwebs interspersing billions and billions of lines of code from thousands of companies, educational institutions, Joe-six pack, and yes, even Homer Simpson.

That's what my Mom said. (1)

WK2 (1072560) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445005)

Feedback from the Linux community has been on the order of 'you shouldn't really be talking to the devil.'

Actually, it's "Don't make deals with the devil." And, it's just plain good advice. What were they expecting? Especially since they did the exact same thing Novell did. Why were they expecting results different from Novell's?

I am starting to suspect... (1)

McNihil (612243) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445031)

Microsoft will soon go "open source" in a more wide way and are just making sure they pre-emptively strike these licensing deals because their code is already full of GNU and BSD code. So all this is just Microsoft covering their hind quarters.

Re:I am starting to suspect... (1)

fishybell (516991) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445409)

Oh troll, I know I shouldn't feed thee...


I assume you meant GPL code, rather than GNU code, as GNU is a set of tools, rather than a copyright license. That aside, five dollars to man who finds me some GPL'd code in any Microsoft product not licensed under the GPL.


As far as BSD code...so what? It's perfectly legal to take BSD code and put it in a closed-source commercial application. They did just that, but can you blame them? If the code is good, why not include it? That was the spirit in which the BSD code was written. If you say otherwise you obviously haven't released any code under a BSD style license.

Re:I am starting to suspect... (1)

McNihil (612243) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446093)

No not a troll... I am speaking of actual code (GNU code existed before GPLv1 so I am hopefully being a bit more thorough in my approach) used in various Microsoft offerings. Remember back "some years" ago when Microsoft were buying up a lot of smaller companies to the left and right? ... How many of these companies were already using open code BUT stripping out comments and licenses at their own whim (thinking in BSD license terms but they were in fact GPL... done that by error myself... back in 1996... corrected 1997)... I would estimate that number to be quite the amount of lines and definitely large chunks of code. Microsoft would not be able to do a thorough check on all their code (remembering that just the OS it self is about 45 million lines.) It is FAR easier to strike these kind of deals don't you think? So yes I see this as a "what goes around comes around" in regards to what Microsoft was/is allegedly indirectly pushing SCO to do. They ARE covering their hinds and NO spin can make it different.

Btw it is sad to see that you got 5 mod points reply to a 1 point post. Are we not allowed to be against Microsoft in Zonk's posts? or is it that my whole approach is too poignant that the masses should not be able to fathom nor get a drift of it and that it should therefore be relegated as a troll post? btw^2 That was rhetorical.

Re:I am starting to suspect... (1)

boolithium (1030728) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446861)

Your right, not a troll; just misunderstanding. We are talking about patients and not copyright. Microsoft can not implement code from any GPL source, even if they do have patient deals with companies. A patient is like "drop down menus", not the code that actually implements it. To copy the code would be illegal. Though any bsd code can be copied without open sourcing. I think the previous reply was trying to correct your understanding in a mean spiritted way, but as I am often told about slashdot snobiness "Are you new here?".

Re:I am starting to suspect... (1)

Nossie (753694) | more than 7 years ago | (#19447255)

patients ? I thought it was MSFT we were talking about not the NHS.... :D

i can't wait for linuxworld... (2, Informative)

Blob Pet (86206) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445107)

When I go to linuxworld at SF in August, I'm going to have so much fun taunting the people running the Novell and Xandros booths.

hmm (-1, Troll)

majortom1981 (949402) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445151)

So the linux people are turning around and being just as bad as microsoft by acting like children. Come on in stead of finding out if linux really does violate microsofts patents and fixing them you are going to change the liscence so that people cant make deals with microsoft? Isnt that doing the exact same thing that mnicrosoft is doing?

Re:hmm (1)

Blob Pet (86206) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445239)

These deals with MS go against the spirit of GPL. Attempting to provide protection for unspecified patent claims puts open source projects under undue clouds of FUD - exactly what MS wants. Novell and Xandros have played right into MS' hands and are rightfully being chastised. Seriously, I could see how one linux distributor might fall for this, but Xandros had to know that there would be damaging backlash. Just how dumb could they be?

Changing the GPL is the only defense available to the community. Besides, how do you propose that the open source community find out what MS patents, if any, are being violated? Until MS provides proof, there is no other recourse.

Re:hmm (3, Interesting)

NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445361)

Come on in stead of finding out if linux really does violate microsofts patents and fixing them...

Well, I've not been following this whole thing very closely, but I do recall seeing the frequent complaint that Microsoft refuses to identify which patents are being infringed upon. Given that Microsoft probably holds thousands upon thousands of patents, I expect that it's not reasonable to expect the Linux community to proactively slog through them all and make sure all violations are corrected.

If I understand correctly, at least part of the burden is on Microsoft to defend their patents. I'm sure if they provided a list of the violations, the community would take care of the violations. It just seems to me that not releasing the list means either (1) there's not really any substantial violations, or (2) Microsoft just wants the spectre of patent infringement hanging over Linux as long as possible. Or maybe a little of both.

Just my uninformed two cents, though...take it with a block of salt.

Re:hmm (2, Interesting)

dwandy (907337) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445985)

I've thought about this before ... anyone have any kind of inkling as to
- how many patents does MS have? or how/where to find out? can they be electronically leached somehow?
- how easy are they to turn from legalease technojumbo to english?
- what kind of effort it might take to review each one?

Maybe an MS patent wiki is in order.
Start with (hopefully) an automated dump of all patents into a wiki of some sort where people can read them, and link to prior art, and/or state whether this might be in use by OSS somewhere... that way we can work to invalidate on one side and assess and remove possible risks on the other.

If this becomes a community effort then perhaps it can be dealt with more manageably ... anyone know how to get it started?

Re:hmm (2, Insightful)

arthurpaliden (939626) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445393)

And you have the list of these patents that are contained in GNU/Linux so that we can remove said code.

Or baring that do you have the Microsoft source codes so that we can look them over and find the infrigments ourselves.

I thought not.

How do we find out if linux violates a ms patent? (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445921)

When msft won't specify anything?

George Selden would have enjoyed this (1)

Scareduck (177470) | more than 7 years ago | (#19445725)

Henry Ford spent a not inconsiderable sum invalidating the patents of one George B. Selden [wikipedia.org] , whom many auto manufacturers simply paid off [bpmlegal.com] just to be rid of him. Ford correctly foresaw the legal and financial troubles that would pursue him were he to simply pay off Selden, and beat him even though it meant spending a sizeable amount of money and despite the fact that there was only a year left on the patent at the time Ford finally won in appeals court.

And in response (2, Funny)

boolithium (1030728) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446663)

And in response to the ceo's statements the linux community responded with "Who the fuck is Xandros? I mean does anyone actually use this distro".

Re:And in response (1)

revengebomber (1080189) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446781)

Xandros is that giant floating head thing. Do a barrel roll!

Is Xandros the alien that Scientologists worship? (2, Funny)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 7 years ago | (#19447161)

Or something like that?

Same old (1)

deathguppie (768263) | more than 7 years ago | (#19446765)

Microsoft deals with other businesses. Open source developers are just a loose cannon to them [theregister.com] .

The first part of this strategy from my point of view, would be to relegate where developers can release source code, and through whom. That way they can contain any threat (or perceived threat) from the open source community without having to search for someone to sue. Secondly by writing up cross licensing deals with other companies, Microsoft is able to show that there is value , and therefore a recognizable loss when it comes time to collect on thier IP debt.

Microsoft does nothing out of the goodness of it's heart.. it has no heart.

One Day They Came... (2, Interesting)

cmarkn (31706) | more than 7 years ago | (#19447131)

First they came...
 
First they came and they took Novell
And I said nothing because I did not use SuSE
Then one day they came and they took the people of the Xandros faith
And I said nothing because I had no faith left
One day they came and they took LG Electronics
And I said nothing because I had no Xbox
One day they burned Open Office.org
And I said nothing because I was born to use Emacs
Then one day they came and they took me
And I could say nothing because I was as guilty as they were
For not speaking out and saying that all men have a right to freedom
On any land
I was as guilty of genocide
As you
All of you
For you know when a man is free
And when to set him free from his slavery
So I charge you all with genocide
The same as I
One of the 18 million dead Jews
18 million dead people
-- from Charles Mingus, after Martin Niemöller

GPL 3.0 does *not* prevent these types of deals (3, Informative)

Gutboy (587531) | more than 7 years ago | (#19447193)

From the article: "Indeed, the Free Software Foundation is rewriting its GNU General Public License (GPL) 3.0 to prohibit such patent deals in the future." GLP 3.0 does no such thing. What it does is extend any such patent protection deals to all users of the GPL 3.0 software, not just the group that made the deal.
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