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id, EA Show Support For Apple

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the i-what dept.

Apple 149

The iPhone may have been the star at today's Apple event, but Joystiq points out that id software's debut of 'id Tech 5' is just as beautiful. There are no current details on the first title slated to use the engine. Just the same John Carmack had a few things to say, pointing out the technology's strong graphical and cross-platform performance: "What we've got here is the entire world with unique textures, 20GB of textures covering this track. They can go in and look at the world and, say, change the color of the mountaintop, or carve their name into the rock. They can change as much as they want on surfaces with no impact on the game ... We're going to be showing on a Mac, PC, PS3, and Xbox at E3, we'll have another Mac announcement at E3." Game|Life also points out that EA will be throwing support behind OS X, with releases of major titles like Command and Conquer 3, Battlefield 2142, Need For Speed Carbon, and Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.

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149 comments

Woopee (1, Interesting)

bvimo (780026) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469205)

Another cross platform gaming engine, but where is the Linux support?

Re:Woopee (4, Insightful)

Broken scope (973885) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469303)

I can't remember the last id game that didn't run on Linux.

Re:Woopee (1, Interesting)

Araxen (561411) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469423)

Is Apple going to release a Mac Gamer model or are we stuck going Mac Pro for our gaming needs?

Re:Woopee (1, Interesting)

Broken scope (973885) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469585)

why are you asking me? I don't pay attention to macs at all.

Re:Woopee (1)

Broken scope (973885) | more than 6 years ago | (#19473523)

Troll? I honestly don't pay that much attention to macs. I don't own any and I don't really have a reason to own one. I use them for math lab at school sometimes during my calculus classes. Jesus...

Re:Woopee (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469923)

The next mac pro chip may be better for games I head that intel may drop FB-DIMMS and the next chip will have the pci-e lanes for 2 full x16 slots.

Re:Woopee (1)

Trent Hawkins (1093109) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469953)

Yup, and it's surprising that they went back on their word. The last time J.C. worked with apple he swore he'd never come back. He must be getting desperate.

Re:Woopee (2, Interesting)

DeltaSigma (583342) | more than 6 years ago | (#19472095)

When J.C. says he's never going to work with someone again, that doesn't mean id intellectual property will never hit that platform. They just happen to be a game studio that isn't at the complete whim of their publisher, and thus are not forced to entertain business dealings they find unsavory.

I never heard anyone from id software saying they would never work with apple... actually, I don't remember anyone from id software actually working with apple. Nevertheless, if such statements were made, why is it surprising that they changed their mind? I mean, if they were stubbornly refusing to release on the mac platform for personal reasons, would that benefit their fans?

Did John Carmack say this somewhere in his .plan, or was it elsewhere? Where did you hear this? I think some context would really help.

Re:Woopee (1)

bluephone (200451) | more than 6 years ago | (#19472171)

It shouldn't really be surprising. He's not an idiot. The Macs that he worked on for Q3 are nothing like today's Macs, and I guarantee you that Steve is making sure that whatever happened between id and Apple before is never repeated. Steve's no idiot either. We all say "never this" and "never that" and we don't always mean it. I used to say I'd never use a Mac, but now that it's a much better platform, I've been giving it serious contemplation that I never did before. I actually respect it now. Things change.

Re:Woopee (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470341)

Where's the support in Linux for an application hogging the entire UI, setting its own resolution and asocially hogging a load of resources?

hehehehhe - for the Mac? (1)

djupedal (584558) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469293)

Game on, baby... :)

Re:hehehehhe - for the Mac? (1)

skeldoy (831110) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469481)

at last someone willing to put out mac versions of their games and publicly support mac as the brilliant platform it is. I have often wondered why, with the kick ass apple machines, there was so little interest for porting games to the platform.

Re:hehehehhe - for the Mac? (1)

bvimo (780026) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469847)

why there was so little interest for porting games to the platform
Could it be the small market share that Apple currently has? or the presumed users - 'the media industry'? I too am glad that ID will be releasing games for me to play (at work).

Apple NEEDS a mid-rage head less system and....... (0, Redundant)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469413)

a few other things to make them better priced next and more in line with other x86 hardware and they need better gaming hardware.
all systems now days come with DVD burners /CD-RW apple should be able to get that for the same price as cdwr / dvd drives.
$75 to go from 512mb to 1gb is way to much.

The I-Macs use laptop parts and the $999 i-mac with 512mb and gma 950 with a cdwr / dvd should be dropped in price or removed as for a $100 more you get 1gb of ram, faster cpu with more l2, DL dvd burner / cdwr and ATI Radeon X1600 graphics.

The mini at $ 600 is a little high for a older core 1 cpu and only 512mb system ram with gma 950 and a $800 system with 512mb of ram and gma 950 with a older cpu like that is a ripoff.

The macbook black should have a real video card or a Turbo Cache / hyper memory card at the $1500 price level as there are other laptops at that price with them.

The Mac Pro is overkill for people who need a desktop system with video better then the low end on video in the mini and FB-DIMMS for ram do not help it too and only an nvidia 7300 in a $2000 desktop system?

Apple should replace the mini with a mini tower with DESKTOP PARTS and pci-e slots that can take a full pci-e x16 video card with other slots left over and maybe low end on board video as well. You can keep the same base price as the mini upping it to 1gb ram and a newer cpu. Maybe even push the old mini down to the g4 mini price levels.

Also the i-mac needs better video cards.

Re:Apple NEEDS a mid-rage head less system and.... (-1, Troll)

zerocool^ (112121) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469919)


Welcome to what the rest of us have been saying for years.

MACS ARE OVERPRICED.

Period. It's just that much more obvious now that they're using the same x86 hardware that everyone else is using.

You pay for the "user experience" whateverthefuck that means. They're a rip off. A PC of comparable price will SMOKE a mac on any application that taxes hardware.

~Wx

Re:Apple NEEDS a mid-rage head less system and.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19471233)

I'm going to say this once and in caps so maybe you will get it.

YOU CAN GET A WOODCREST XEON MAC PRO FOR HOUNDREDS OF DOLLARS CHEAPER THAN DELL.

Yes go to apple.com and dell.com and spec out two dual core xoen machines match the specs as much as you want, you can even forget about the fact the Mac Pro comes with a better OS, and the whole iLife package, a better looking/designed machine and just look at specs and price and guess what? its STILL CHEAPER from apple.

Maybe you should look some things up before you open your mouth and look like a fool. See below for an education.

Priced at apple store:
Quad core 2.66 Ghz Woodcrest Xoen
2GB RAM
250 GB SATA2 HD
Mac OS X Cleint
iLife
Keyboard, Mouse
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB (single-link DVI/dual-link DVI) (Far better then card on Dell box)

Total Price $2798

Priced at dell.com
2.66 Quad core Xeon
2 GB RAM
250 SATA2 HD
NO OPERATING SYSTEM
NO ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE
GENERIC VIDEO CARD

Total Price $3154

Thats a surcharge of $350 for a similiar Dell machine, with no OS, keyboard, mouse and a generic video card. You may now proceed to take your FUD and eat it.

Re:Apple NEEDS a mid-rage head less system and.... (1)

xjerky (128399) | more than 6 years ago | (#19471419)

Thing is, how upgradable is that Mac Pro? Can you just pop in a new top-of-the-line graphics card and expect it to work properly?

Re:Apple NEEDS a mid-rage head less system and.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19471935)

For those who want to know,
you can put in a new videocard only if you plan to run Windows only. It won't work under Mac OS X, unless you flash the bios of the videocard.

MOD PARENT UP (1)

xjerky (128399) | more than 6 years ago | (#19473427)

You can't do an apples-to-apples comparison while this is the case. Why even have a tower when you can barely add anything to it?

Re:Apple NEEDS a mid-rage head less system and.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19469985)

The 1.66 Mac mini has used a Core Duo processor since since it was introduced in February 28, 2006 and the 1.83 Mini has used the Core Duo since it's introduction in September 6, 2006.

The only Mini to use a Core Solo processor was the 1.5Ghz mini which was discontinued last September.

(Dates courtesy of Everymac.com)

Re:Apple NEEDS a mid-rage head less system and.... (2, Insightful)

j00r0m4nc3r (959816) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470039)

Maybe they should just buy a ton of crappy Compaqs, peel off the Compaq sticker, and slap on an Apple sticker.

Re:Apple NEEDS a mid-rage head less system and.... (2, Funny)

Slashcrap (869349) | more than 6 years ago | (#19471895)

Maybe they should just buy a ton of crappy Compaqs, peel off the Compaq sticker, and slap on an Apple sticker.

Are you seriously suggesting that the only difference between a crappy Compaq and an Apple is a sticker? That's fucking outrageous.

You'd blatantly need a new case as well.

-1, Stop beating the dead horse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19470721)

A) It's spelled iMac.

B) Commas good, run-on sentences bad. There's a lot more to writing than throwing a lot of words down and hoping your reader can figure out what you meant to say, and is even willing to take the time to do so.

C) You never said anything remotely new, insightful, or even worth decyphering. People have been suggesting the same basic things practically every day since Jobs took over ten years ago. Usually more coherently than you. You may have noticed that Apple doesn't really care, and has been doing quite well regardless.

Re:-1, Stop beating the dead horse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19470931)

You may have noticed that Apple doesn't really care, and has been doing quite well regardless.
Then why the fuck is Steve Jobs bringing out John Carmack to show off his latest 3D gaming engine? For advanced 3D gaming (like new id Software titles), the options available to Mac users currently suck ass.

If Apple doesn't want a decent gaming Mac to cannibalize Mac Pro sales, then that's fine. Maximize your profits. Just don't pretend the Mac platform is great for gaming, Steve J. Don't be a bullshitter like Steve B.

Re:Apple NEEDS a mid-rage head less system and.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19470789)

Don't know why your comment has been modded "Redundant" (at least twice) when TFA is about id Software's heavy-duty 3D gaming engine and the only Mac that's any good for this is the Mac Pro (which is a workstation slowed down by FB-DIMMs). Apple's lack of gaming computers might be redundant in most Mac-related discussions, but this article is about advanced 3D gaming for fuckssake.

Admit it Mac fanboys: "consumer" Macs are crippled for gaming by their slow notebook hard drives (Mac mini) and slow notebook mid-range graphics (iMac) that aren't configurable or upgradable. If Steve Jobs is inviting John Carmack to demo his latest engine, then it's about fuckin' time Apple released a Mac with a PCIe x16 slot that's not a workstation.

Hope it actually works (1, Interesting)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469491)

I've got 3 macintosh computers sitting in front of me. They represent more than 4 thousand dollars total of hardware that I use for income. When I put Doom 3 into them - the game is wholly unplayable.

Anyone see any concrete mention in the TFA (I checked) that they're going to run higher than 5fps without a Dual-Core Xenon and a top of the line graphics card? At this point only the Quake 3 engine gets any play on the Mac because it doesn't bog down (too badly - Aspyr? You suck!).

Until I here more FPS and everyday gameplay configs on the current Mac line - mmmmmmmmmMMMMMMeh!

Re:Hope it actually works (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19469797)

"Hope it actually works"

It won't.

Writing and keeping OpenGL drivers up to date with the latests extensions and performance improvements is very costly and requires a company wide commitment of resources.

Apple has never made any such commitment of manpower and resources. For Apple to be able to even be competitive with Windows gaming would require huge and fundamental changes to how OS X handles graphics/drivers, how drivers are updated and released to developers and gamers, and large numbers of engineers actively working on drivers and OS level game technologies and support. Apple sure as hell isn't going to do that.

Re:Hope it actually works (5, Funny)

Glacial Wanderer (962045) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469961)

I've got 3 macintosh computers sitting in front of me. They represent more than 4 thousand dollars total of hardware that I use for income. When I put Doom 3 into them - the game is wholly unplayable.


I've got a 486 dx sitting in front of me. It represents more than 3 thousand dollars. When I put Doom 3 into it - wait the cd doesn't even fit into the floppy drive...

Re:Hope it actually works (1, Insightful)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470181)

Fine jackass nitpicker. Circa 2004 G5 Tower. Circa 2005 Mac Mini. Circa 2006 MacBook. I see Wintel-ers getting at least 25FPS or more with just about every hardware config out there for Doom 3 - can we get an engine that is playable - just fucking PLAYABLE - on currently selling or sold in the last year hardware? (No I'm not talking 60fps with a 30 inch lcd at peak resolution on a Voodoo-whatsit-Alien-piece-of-crap-I-wouldn't-bury -in-my-backyard-it's-so-fucking-ugly-it-scares-chi ldren - I'm talking 25-35 fps on anything) If you can't give me something playable without another 1500.00 dollar expense, then fuck off when I say I think the PS3 looks 'nifty'.

Re:Hope it actually works (1)

hab136 (30884) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470295)

Circa 2004 G5 Tower. Circa 2005 Mac Mini. Circa 2006 MacBook.

Two of those - Mac Mini and MacBook - have horrible, horrible integrated Intel graphics instead of a discrete graphics card like Nvidia or ATI. My brand new Dell work computer also has Intel integrated graphics, and despite being super-fast in every other respect, also gets like 5fps in any 3d game.

Integrated graphics suck, on PC or Mac.

Macbook Pro, most of the iMac models, and Mac Pro have decent graphics cards.

Re:Hope it actually works (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470425)

Only one of them has integrated intel. 2nd version g4 mac-mini (circa october 2005).

I've seen better than 5fps on most Wintel's I've run across including the 700-dollar Dells. Not 60 with massive res- but better than 5.

Re:Hope it actually works (1)

frankie (91710) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470521)

Yes, the 32MB ATI 9200 in the G4 Mini is technically better than integrated graphics. But you're being quite unfair expecting to play an FPS on it. And what's the problem playing games on your G5?

Re:Hope it actually works (1)

Forrest Kyle (955623) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470127)

I think it's fairly common knowledge that DOOM 3 requires a high end graphically capable computer. Having 3 computers that fall short does not somehow magically combine system specs into one giant computer capable of running DOOM 3. You need to have a strong processor, copious RAM, and a powerful video card. Expecting DOOM 3 to run without these can hardly be reflected back to Id Software as a criticism of their work.

Re:Hope it actually works (1)

norkakn (102380) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470571)

It runs fine on my first gen G5. I think something may be wrong with your setup.

Danger Of Income Generating Machines For Gaming (0, Flamebait)

nick_davison (217681) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470873)

I've got 3 macintosh computers sitting in front of me. They represent more than 4 thousand dollars total of hardware that I use for income. When I put Doom 3 into them - the game is wholly unplayable.
I've got 3 PCs sitting in front of me. They represent more than 4 thousand dollars total of hardware that I use for income. When I put Doom 3 into them - the income is wholly unviable.

Re:Hope it actually works (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19470963)

You should really not spend that much money on second hand Apple Lisa eBay auctions. They're not worth such a price. Perhaps you'd like to try your luck with something a bit better, like the old G5 single-processor machine with 1 GB RAM that I have here, which runs Doom 3 just fine. Seriously, I don't understand where you're coming from. Macintosh computers are just computers; if your highly expensive equipment can't do something, then a highly expensive PC won't do much better.

Yay for shovelware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19469571)

Electronic Arts' announcement can be translated to them managing to get their crossplatform middleware running on OS X. Now we Mac users can also enjoy their buggy mediocre games, not to mention get fucked up the ass by copy protection!

Journalism, do you grok it? (0, Offtopic)

MotorMachineMercenar (124135) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469645)

Why can't /. produce blurbs that are decipherable without reading the link - yeah yeah, I know -, doing a google and wikipedia search, and having extensive industry insider knowledge?

Re:Journalism, do you grok it? (2, Insightful)

Snowgen (586732) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470323)

Why can't /. produce blurbs that are decipherable without reading the link - yeah yeah, I know -, doing a google and wikipedia search, and having extensive industry insider knowledge?

It's called "writing to your target audience." It's actually something that a good journalist is supposed to do. That way every news story isn't filled with three paragraphs defining what "murder" is when the target audience already knows.

Re:Journalism, do you grok it? (1)

MotorMachineMercenar (124135) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470753)

I'm aware of this. I picked a bad sample story to bitch about this, but /. is littered with submissions which are littered with unexplained and unlinked terms and acronyms that are gibberish to even those of us who read /. daily, like me.

Re:Journalism, do you grok it? (1)

BobPaul (710574) | more than 6 years ago | (#19471203)

Why can't /. produce blurbs that are decipherable without reading the link
Isn't the purpose of a blurb to get you to RTFA?

Thoughts From A Former Mac Game Developer (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19469655)

Here we go again with Apple and games...

It's the same old cycle over and over again for the past couple of decades:

1) Someone at Apple, once again, stands up at some meeting and says we need to have better game support to grow marketshare.
2) Apple hires some new game guys. Meet the new Apple game guys, same as the old Apple game guys.
3) Apple woos/pays for some big game/company to make Mac versions of their game or games
4) Apple trumpets gaming on the Mac at one of the big Mac conferences
5) Sales of the Mac versions of the games do poorly
6) Performance of the Mac versions of the games are worse than the pc versions due to crappy, for games, Apple GL drives or various other issues with Apple's OS due to the fact that game support has never been any significant concern
7) Bean counters at the new Apple friendly companies start asking why they are spending so much money developing games for the Mac with such relatively poor sales
8) Mac versions of the company's games start to get delayed or canceled
9) Life returns to normal and the pc gaming world continues right along oblivious to the last Apple gaming episode

Gaming for Apple is just something that isn't in the company's culture. This latest outbreak of Apple interest in gaming is in for an even tougher time now that they have been dumped into x86 land and every sane x86 game dev house is perfectly happy letting Mac users reboot into Windows to play their games.

Re:Thoughts From A Former Mac Game Developer (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469861)

But thats the thing, now that Apple is on Intel game developers don't need to do nearly the amount of work that they had to do for PowerPC based games. Its going to have the same underlying processor and graphics cards, just a slightly different API, like OpenGL versus DirectX. Not a huge conversion. Just wish Apple would go with OpenGL so developing for Linux as well would be a non issue.

Re:Thoughts From A Former Mac Game Developer (2, Interesting)

cyborg_zx (893396) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470287)

Um, it's the APIs that are the real problem, not the ISA.

Since most development code NOT going to be assembler changing the choice of ISA is in most cases going to be a (relatively) simple case of compiling your code to a different compiler architecture. It becomes significantly harder if you have to deal with API changes if you have to use different libraries for different architectures - it just screams 'fragile code' at you. I don't think most developers are going to be too bothered what hardware dongle the API eventually connects to.

Re:Thoughts From A Former Mac Game Developer (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470579)

Yes, and no. For high-end graphics intensive games, hardware optimizations are a must. Add that to the fact that PowerPC was falling behind in the Mhz and bus speed wars it really became a pain to develop Mac games that ran on anything but the best Macs out there and those were owned by so few people it was hardly worth it.

Re:Thoughts From A Former Mac Game Developer (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19470903)

> Add that to the fact that PowerPC was falling behind in the Mhz and bus speed wars it really became a pain to develop Mac games

Wrong, although it is an appealing fiction that people who own x86 Macs like to believe in.

There's a reason that all three console companies are using IBM/PPC chips in their consoles, and why Microsoft went through the extraordinarily painful dumping of x86 chips in their new system when the majority of their developer support comes from the x86 game development community.

Apple has and, almost certainly, always will have crappy OpenGL drivers. Very often a Mac port of a pc game would perform miserably compared to a similarly priced/featured pc until Apple finally got around to updating their driver at which time suddenly the Mac port was running faster than the pc version.

Apple's GL driver focus is on Aqua, QuickTime, and the big Mac media apps. Games have never been a priority for Apple. Extension support has constantly been six month to a year or two behind the pc world. And standard optimizations that pc drivers are constantly getting updated with takes forever to finally show up in Apple's drivers.

Re:Thoughts From A Former Mac Game Developer (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 6 years ago | (#19472669)

Atleast the iBook had Radeon 9200 instead of Intel 950 GMA...

And I would guess a dual/quad G5 with whatever decent graphics card would handle the games just fine..

It's not like the G5 is slow, even by todays standards.

Re:Thoughts From A Former Mac Game Developer (1)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470891)

Bean counters at the new Apple friendly companies start asking why they are spending so much money developing games for the Mac with such relatively poor sales Mac versions of the company's games start to get delayed or canceled

Umm, take a look at the top 10 selling games of 2006. Notice how many had a mac version? Yeah, pretty much all of them. Take a look at 2005, hmm same story. 2004, was different with a lot fewer. Times have changed.

If you are making games and you're pretty sure it will be a success an Mac version costs a lot less than it makes in sales. If you plan for it from the outset, the development costs even less. There are three kinds of people who don't want to plan a Mac version at the outset: 1) people who have little capital/talent to start with, 2) people who don't know if their game will be a flop, 3) people owned by Microsoft who are more interested in maintaining the Windows monopoly than selling games.

Gaming for Apple is just something that isn't in the company's culture.

Agreed. Sony is developing open standard OpenGL stuff for the PS3. Nintendo is developing for OpenGL. Apple game developers are using OpenGL, but no one has put together a cross-platform development kit that really sings. That should have been Apple.

This latest outbreak of Apple interest in gaming is in for an even tougher time now that they have been dumped into x86 land and every sane x86 game dev house is perfectly happy letting Mac users reboot into Windows to play their games.

That is not sane by any stretch of the imagination. Users, in general, do not install OS's. They sure don't use bootcamp and they don't pay for a copy of Windows that did not come with their computer. With Vista requiring an extra expensive version to work in a VM and OS X users not in the habit of quitting programs, let alone rebooting to perform a task there is no way that will fly. Any game developer who counts on Mac users running bootcamp will have sales to mac users that approximate a lead balloon. I can see one or two clueless gaming houses trying that, but they'd have to be pretty clueless. "To install our game just follow the simple steps of repartitioning your computer, buying Windows, licensing and installing it, then quitting everything and rebooting every time you want to play and every time you're done playing." That will work for a few technical, hardcore gamers. Hardcore gamers are too few to matter. The casual gamer is the market and that just is not going to work.

Re:Thoughts From A Former Mac Game Developer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19471153)

I'm not sure about Sony, but Nintendo doesn't use OpenGL.

They use something very similar to OpenGL, GX, but not OpenGL.

GX is more like GL than like DX (2, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#19472115)

I'm not sure about Sony, but Nintendo doesn't use OpenGL.
True, but the GX API used by GameCube and DS games is much closer to OpenGL than to DirectX graphics. The PSP API is also very similar to GL, and the PS3 uses OpenGL ES itself.

Re:Thoughts From A Former Mac Game Developer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19473817)

If you are making games and you're pretty sure it will be a success an Mac version costs a lot less than it makes in sales.

Something is wrong with that sentence. I'm not exactly sure what, but something is horribly awry.

What would help gaming on macs... (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 6 years ago | (#19472653)

... is if Apple didn't put junk graphics cards in them, or even better let them be user replacable... And no retarded special Mac version either.

Re:Thoughts From A Former Mac Game Developer (1)

bradword (806343) | more than 6 years ago | (#19472823)

Yeah, those guys at Blizzard are sure having a tough time selling and getting good performance out of that world of warcraft game for the mac. I feel bad for them, just no love on the mac.

Re:Thoughts From A Former Mac Game Developer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19472899)

Wow, did you just try to smack talk as a 'Mac gamer'???

Hold on while the gaming world laughs at you...

"getting good performance out of that world of warcraft game for the mac."

Now that is absolutely hilarious for anyone who sat around and watched the Blizzard guys having to deal with the fallout of the shitty Apple OpenGL drivers over the past couple of years. What was so pathetic about the whole drama was the Blizzard guys had to continuously kiss the Apple dev support guy's asses and do damage control for Apple in various public forums.

One look at the pain the Blizzard guys went through dealing with Apple's crappy game dev support should be clear indication as to why the rest of game development world doesn't and won't waste their time with the platform.

Say that again.... (0, Troll)

danbert8 (1024253) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469699)

Their "support" for Macs is to give them games that have been out for over a year on PC? Seems similar to Microsoft giving PC users "support" for Halo...

Re:Say that again.... (2, Informative)

ostermei (832410) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470421)

Their "support" for Macs is to give them games that have been out for over a year on PC?
Did you even bother to read the summary? They also announced that the Mac will be one of the plethora of platforms that the next Madden and Tiger Woods PGA Tour games are released on. Not a single game mentioned is "more than a year old," and one of them (three if you count Madden and Tiger Woods, although they weren't listed in the /. summary) isn't even out yet.

Tiger Woods control issues? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#19472135)

They also announced that the Mac will be one of the plethora of platforms that the next Madden and Tiger Woods PGA Tour games are released on.
Will Tiger Woods for Mac have the same control problem as Tiger Woods for Wii, namely that the harder you swing the remote (or in the Mac's case, move the mouse), the softer your character hits the ball?

Safari on Windows (0, Offtopic)

windside (112784) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469701)

This is kind of exciting! I'm a long-time Firefox user, but I'm getting tired of the bloat and the gmail-related memory leaks. Although I know these are tentatively going to be fixed in Firefox 3, I'm interested in seeing what Safari has to offer. I've installed it and it looks really pretty and all, but I'm kind of agitated by the fact that there doesn't seem to be an easy way to customize its keyboard shortcuts: I'm all about ctrl+tab to switch between tabs... this ctrl+shift+] crap doesn't really float my boat.

Anyways, if anyone has additional info about Safari on Windows, I think that would make for some interesting discussion. And if anyone can tell me how to get it to mimic Firefox keyboard shortcuts, I think I will switch over entirely. For the time being...

Enough with the apple stuff. (0, Flamebait)

garbletext (669861) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469711)

Right now there is not a SINGLE story on the front page that is unrelated to apple. I know the WWDC is today, but be reasonable. 3% market share should not equal 100% slashdot front page share, even when there's a conference.

Re:Enough with the apple stuff. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19469855)

haha, whoops, I somehow got onto apple.slashdot.org. My bad.

Re:Enough with the apple stuff. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19469897)

This made my day. Thanks!

Re:Enough with the apple stuff. (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470525)

That's pretty funny actually. I was wondering why you didn't also complain about the color change to the 'MacBook Black' look.

Re:Enough with the apple stuff. (0, Redundant)

Denis Troller (1002792) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470887)

WTF????

If every story, every day, was Apple centered I could go along with you. Now today is "anouncement day" and there is indeed a lot to comment on.

If those stories bother you, don't read them. They will be gone tomorrow anyway. Some people coming on this site want that information and having several submissions allows for separate comment threads.

As far as I know, there is no "cap" on the number of article per day on slashdot, so it's not as if those articles were preventing other stories to show up.

Re:Enough with the apple stuff. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#19470919)

3% market share? Do you just make up numbers for fun? Apple has over 10% of the laptop market share and 5% of hardware market share. How about 80% of the MP3 player market?

Sit down, and shut up before you hurt yourself.

Cross platform release? (1)

diesel66 (254283) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469789)

I'll be interested to see if the Mac version is released at the same time, and without the 130% price markup that has traditionally accompanied Mac versions.

Shouldn't this go away, now that the chips are the same? Or have I missed some x-factor that will perpetuate the status-quo?

Re:Cross platform release? (1)

alxbtk (1009019) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469997)

Yes, you've missed one x-factor : the direct x factor. Most of the "killer apps" games scheduled for the next years are currently being developped for DX9 or 10.

GL-like APIs on Mac, Linux, PS3, PSP, Wii, DS (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#19472163)

Most of the "killer apps" games scheduled for the next years are currently being developped for DX9 or 10.
Killer apps for what platform? Mac uses OpenGL. Linux uses OpenGL. PS3 uses OpenGL ES, and PSP uses a similar API. The Wii and DS use Nintendo's GX API, which resembles OpenGL more than it does DirectX. This leaves Windows and Xbox 360 as the only platforms where DirectX graphics API even works, let alone is preferable.

I will buy a Mac (1)

r6_jason (893331) | more than 6 years ago | (#19469881)

I will buy a Mac for sure if more people throw their support behind it, I am wondering where the EA Sports line is though, that should be ported over, it may move some Macs for Apple.

Re:I will buy a Mac (1)

ostermei (832410) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470597)

I am wondering where the EA Sports line is though
It's right here [engadget.com] . (Well, okay, there's a lot there... more specifically, it's around the 10:10am mark. In the pic [blogsmithmedia.com] you can see that they're even giving the boxes their own little "MacDVD" header, just like console games and (lately) PC games have their own individual headers.

Re:I will buy a Mac (1)

r6_jason (893331) | more than 6 years ago | (#19471923)

That is awesome, does anyone have any idea about what sort of Mac I will need to buy to get these things to play smoothly?

One who has a graphics card which doesn't suck... (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 6 years ago | (#19472923)

... thought some mac fanatics thinks a shitty graphic card is good: macrumor comment [macrumors.com] .

Also you shouldn't but macs who haven't been updated for long since their prices are almost always fixed until the next update. You can see when a modell where last updated here: http://www.macrumors.com/ [macrumors.com]

Anyway, here goes the current situation:
Mac Mini, not updated for long, integrated Intel graphics, rumor says it will be discontinued.

Macbook, recently updated, integrated Intel graphics, sucks for gaming.

iMac, not updated for long, intel/ATI X1600 or nv7300/7600 GT graphics in 24"-model, price/performance ratio suck, wait for next update, buy close to it and you will probably get a decent value.

Macbook Pro, recently updated, Nvidia 8600M GT graphics, mid-range card in a laptop, one of the better ones in a laptop you can get atm. Decent price, good buy currently.

Mac Pro, no major updates for a while, stock card is quite crappy thought you can replace it (you can actually have four graphics cards in the mac pro, I doubt it will help gaming thought), expensive so don't buy it unless you want quad/octo xeon cores and need all the upgrading options.

What you can expect in the future:
iMac update real-soon-now(tm).

Mac Mini scrapped and eventually replaced by something else.

Eventually a Mac Pro update, some people think it won't happen until the next chipset version thought, which is quite long into the future by computer time measures.

Rendering Slashdot. (0, Offtopic)

randito (159822) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470035)

Funny, slashdot does not even render on winfari! It looks like there is a css problem; all the links in the article headers + footers either do not show up, or show up as underlined whitespace. Other sites are rendering equally poorly. Is anyone else having this problem?

Safari 2.0.4 (0, Offtopic)

aliquis (678370) | more than 6 years ago | (#19472945)

For what it's worth:
Works fine here in Safari 2.0.4, thought Opera 9.x is a much better browser anyway.

Surge in Linux gaming as well? (1)

nukem996 (624036) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470299)

I really hope that game developers start seeing how easy it is to code games that work across every major platform (GNU/Linux, OS X, Windows, BSD, Solaris, etc). All they need to do is code with the correct libraries(OpenGL and SDL mainly) instead of DirectX. Hopefully once they start porting more and more to OS X they will realize that if they code this way all it is is a simple recompile for a GNU/Linux port. While I know id software does this they seem to be the only ones that do, hopefully EA and other game producers will take up soon.

Re:Surge in Linux gaming as well? (1)

BobPaul (710574) | more than 6 years ago | (#19471323)

AFAIK, OpenGL on Win and Mac both require some extra considerations beyond OpenGL for the rest of the *nix world. With Vista, OpenGL runs using an OpenGL to DX10 API translator, so there's also a performance loss to be expected from that, though the Mac should run it the same as any other *nix. Definitely support for Mac, or SDL/OpenGL at all, is a step in the right direction for multi-platform support.

XBox uses DX. Anyone know if OpenGL is also supported, perhaps in the same way it is on Vista?

Re:Surge in Linux gaming as well? (1)

nukem996 (624036) | more than 6 years ago | (#19471569)

The OpenGL to DX10 API translator is only if you don't install any drivers on Vista. As long as you install drivers from NVIDIA, ATI, Intel, or anyone else you should be fine. As for the extra stuff you can use SDL which has networking and sound APIs as well as handle all of OGL stuff, all of which is the same cross platform. My point is OpenGL can be programmed the same and runs with similar performance on every platform. As for the XBox I'm not sure I know Doom3 is on the XBox which is an OpenGL game I don't know if they recoded the engine with DirectX or if it does support OpenGL. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if it did support OpenGL since it is used in so many games.

Eyes on the future... (1)

posterlogo (943853) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470447)

I like my mac-centric computing environment at home and at the office, but I'm not going to blindly accept the wisdom of this (from the developers point of view)... simply because the mac market share is so low still. However, two points could prove this move to be wise. 1) If the cost of porting games to the newer intel-based mac hardware is relatively low, then even limited sales could still be profitable. 2) Apple is constantly gaining market share with its hardware, and lately (last 10 years) they have been fairly prescient as to the future of hardware.

Last time they demoed a game (cough Halo) (1)

acomj (20611) | more than 6 years ago | (#19470727)

I remember Steve Jobs demoing Halo at a keynote. It was impresive. So impresive MS bought one of the largest mac game shops...Bungie.

Mac World New York, Can you guess the date? (2, Informative)

mr-mafoo (891779) | more than 6 years ago | (#19471123)

MWNY 1999, I remember watching the stream live and getting hyped over this MMO shooter. Its such a shame it never became the game it was intended to be.-=[shake fist]=-

The video of the demo is still up on the web, ah the nostalgia. http://nikon.bungie.org/movie1.html [bungie.org]

Re:Last time they demoed a game (cough Halo) (1)

MojoStan (776183) | more than 6 years ago | (#19471221)

I remember Steve Jobs demoing Halo at a keynote. It was impresive. So impresive MS bought one of the largest mac game shops...Bungie.
Don't you remember Steve Jobs bringing out John Carmack at MacWorld Tokyo to demo Doom 3 and the GeForce 3 (first GPU with programmable shaders). Steve boasted that the GeForce 3 was "coming first to the Mac," which turned out to be bullshit. Then when Doom 3 was released, the Mac version was much slower (even on dual G5 workstations) than the Windows version.

GeForce3 puts Mac at the head of GPU field [macworld.com]
A first look at Doom 3 Mac benchmarks [macworld.com]

hardware (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 6 years ago | (#19471139)

now apple needs to have better gaming hardware a $2000+ sever / workstation hardware with FB-DIMMS and only a 7300gt is not the way to do it.
The low end hardware in the mini sucks for gaming as well and it should have 1gb base ram.

The I-macs are not that good as well, laptop cps and video cards, as well no high end video cards, and you are forced to buy other upgrades to just be able to pay more for a better video card and gamers don't like AIO's.

The mac book black at $1500 should have better video then gma 950.

The mac books pros are better for gaming. But at there price you can get a desktop with 1-2 high end video cards and a high speed desktop cpu with 2-4 gb of ram with as well a fast desktop HD.

Re:hardware (1)

Space cowboy (13680) | more than 6 years ago | (#19473093)

Riiight. Because if I wanted to put down ~$2500 for a Mac Pro, and I was interested in playing games on it, I wouldn't spend the extra $250 on the 'customise me before you buy' page for the X1900XT.

[sigh]

Simon.

Re:hardware (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 6 years ago | (#19473099)

Atleast you can change the graphics card in the Mac Pro if you are one of the people who needs something faster, but yes, it's very expensive and comes with a very low end graphics card.

Mac mini and Macbooks suck for gaming, yes, but hopefully the buyers are aware of that. Sadly it doesn't help that mac fanatics argue that this and that games can play oh so fine on them.. No they can't, the graphics might show up thought.

Anyway, the reason I answer is because of your iMac point, yes, the iMacs comes with laptop CPUs, but what is wrong with that? They uses less electricity, doesn't run as hot and are plenty fast. The graphics cards are quite low-mid end by todays standards, but atleast the 24" model had decent graphics card when it came out. After the next update it will probably have something decent again, even thought it's very likely not beeing a high end card, but what high end über gamer buy a mac anyway?
The 24" iMac 7600 GT (and probably 7300 GT) aren't mobile versions, they are real desktop versions on MXM slot. I guess the X1600 in the 20" are mobile version thought.

Yeah, you can get a higher end desktop gaming rig for the same money as a high end laptop, what else is new?

Macbook Pro benchmarks for those who care: http://www.barefeats.com/santarosa.html [barefeats.com]

Re:hardware (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 6 years ago | (#19473571)

not only do the iMacs have laptop parts you get riped off in the upgrades prices.
$125 to go from a 7300 to a 7600gt you can buy a 7600gt for $125 or less and $175 to go from 1gb to 2gb of ddr2 667 you can get 2gb of the same ram for $99.99 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTool s/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2968796&CatId=2453 [tigerdirect.com]

or
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/c ategory_slc.asp?CatId=2368&Nav= [tigerdirect.com] |c:2261|c:2264|&Sor t=4&Recs=10

or 2gb of high end ddr2 800 desktop ram for $109.99 after rebate
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTool s/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2206874&CatId=2264 [tigerdirect.com]

EA? (1)

TheGreatHegemon (956058) | more than 6 years ago | (#19471741)

Well, if Electronic Arts start releasing Mac games, there's goes the much vaunted Mac stability. I jest... somewhat at least. We all know that EA games are notoriously unstable on PCs. My impression is that most Mac software to this day has remained well coded. What will happen when EA starts coding for the Mac? Is there a possibility of crashes, etc. not seen before?

The Real Story With EA-MAC - Third Party Porting (1)

nevek (196925) | more than 6 years ago | (#19471901)

Anyone notice how about 40-50% of the Wii games scheduled to be released in the next 6-8 months are Ports of PS2 and PSP games? Well it is the same deal with Macs. Publishers are learning that more platforms the title is released on = more sales - Look at one of the best selling games last year - Cars (on just about all platforms).

Anyways the Deal with EA's games going MAC is that they are having a third party doing it. So EA gives them the code and assets, and takes care of marketing. A third party ports the game and takes a sizable sum of the profit.

Its almost a no brainer for EA. It is a Win/Don't Win situation - they aren't really in a position to lose. They don't have any real investment into it, they established the IP and the product and it is up to the porting company to make the game run on a MAC.
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