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Sony Looks to 'Refine' PS3 Price

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the that's-corpspeak-for-price-cut dept.

Sony 182

Via GameDaily a Financial Times interview with with Sir Howard Stringer, Sony's CEO, gives fans the first hope that price cuts may be coming soon. Lauding the Wii's performance in last month's NPD numbers, Stringer says that Sony is looking to 'refine' the PS3's pricepoint. "'Nintendo Wii has been a successful enterprise, and a very good business model, compared with ours . . . because it's cheaper,' Mr Stringer said in a video interview. 'That [price cuts] is what we are studying at the moment. That's what we are trying to refine.' Sir Howard said he expected 'energy [in PS3 sales] by Christmas, and then you will begin to see break-out games'. Sony is launching a virtual-world game called Home this year, and up to 30 other games."

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It Needs "Refined"... (5, Funny)

morari (1080535) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519247)

By about $350...

Re:It Needs "Refined"... (-1, Troll)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521559)

That's funny, but just stupid. The PS3 is and always has been worth well more than its price in the store for a lot of reasons that nobody should have to justify anymore.

That said, people aren't always willing to pay what something is worth, so discounting it to encourage sales is still a good idea. However, discounting would be like $50-$75 ... not $350, which would put it in price competition with the PS2.

In case you forgot, the PS2 is selling for around $100 brand new, with a ton of games and more coming too. Sony rakes in good profits from PS2 sales, so they're quite happy to have cheap people buy the PS2 and people willing to fork out some cash to buy the PS3. Psychologically though, a small price cut will encourage sales because people will be getting a 'better deal'.

Re:It Needs "Refined"... (4, Insightful)

MS-06FZ (832329) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521847)

That's funny, but just stupid. The PS3 is and always has been worth well more than its price in the store for a lot of reasons that nobody should have to justify anymore.
That's ridiculous. Value is subjective. Sure, the PS3 is a fine machine, but to say that it's worth the price - that's something people have to decide for themselves. You could put $3000 worth of computer hardware into a little black box that does nothing but play MP3s - it doesn't matter that it cost you $3000 in hardware, though, because the thing is still worth no more to me than what an iPod costs.

If Sony's doing well at selling the PS3 at its current price point - then fine, good for them. For me, it's too damn expensive. There are much better ways I could spend $600, you know?

Re:It Needs "Refined"... (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 7 years ago | (#19523115)

a) "nothing but play mp3s" is a stupid comparison, since the PS3 does almost everything you'd expect it to be able to do with its hardware
b) your final point is exactly what I said -- not wanting to spend the money doesn't mean its not worth the money

Re:It Needs "Refined"... (3, Insightful)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522547)

That said, people aren't always willing to pay what something is worth

On the contrary, which people are willing to pay for something is the DEFINITION of its worth.

Re:It Needs "Refined"... (1, Informative)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 7 years ago | (#19523139)

Yes and no -- there are people not willing to pay anything over say $100 for a pink diamond. They're still worth a lot more. Why? Because /enough/ people are willing to pay that much.

Re:It Needs "Refined"... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19523849)

Europe got less "worth" for an even higher price when it comes to the PS3 in that it's no longer properly backwards compatible, is that still worth it? What if you have a SDTV set, is the Blu-Ray component worth anything to you? 1080p? The original plan was to include Linux on the hard drive without any extra cost, but they didn't do that so is that still worth it? Do you understand yet that the worth of an entertainment center is NOT an absolute? Seriously, you're going around insulting people under the pretense of being neutral, all the while while being a completely biased piece-of-shit asshole. It's not fucking funny.

Re:It Needs "Refined"... (1)

robbiethefett (1047640) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522795)

the ps2s are selling like hotcakes because of the price. people realize that "good enough" is, in fact good enough. look at the wii. the graphics are "good enough", the price is right, and there is an interesting and fun-looking way to interact with it. the 360 has been out for what seems like forever now, have sold tons of units, and is established in homes all over america. enter sony, talking some jive about price cuts. it's too little, too late. the next-gen war is over, and microsoft won. the wii isnt really even in the same category as microsoft and sony's offerings, yet it's managed to secure 2nd place in front of the ps3. microsoft aggressively sought market dominance with it's price point, features, and it's wildly popular live service. sony sat on the arrogant notion that the pigs will buy whatever they tell them to at whatever price. you'd think with a huge pre-existing market base and the looming release of halo 3, sony would see that its going to take a lot, lot more than that to steal sales away from microsoft.

Re:It Needs "Refined"... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19523857)

Actually, it is entirely possible that the Wii will win this generation. The 360 had one heck of a head start, but the Wii is catching up fast.

Scoring system not working (1)

jkro (1103265) | more than 7 years ago | (#19523693)

The scoring system in /. is not working. It does not do what it was supposed to do, meaning promote interesting opinions. The system as is can easily be highjack and this is what happened in this case. The two posting is moderated funny (5) the second troll (1) where the first is not really funny the other is not a troll. Of course what is funny and what is a troll is a matter of opinion and I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion. What I propose is a user selectable option to disable displaying of the scores. And I mean completely, no points and no categories. This way one could read the discussion without being influenced by others. In other words: facts not commentaries.

Re:It Needs "Refined"... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19522997)

Sony announces release of the $950.00 PS3 Elite.

oh oh (2, Interesting)

Gorkamecha (948294) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519341)

When ever a company adds "refined" to a product it tends to get more expensive not less.... Playstation 3, it's for more refined tastes...not like some cheap Wii. Hey this sort of thing works for bottled water companies! What could possibly go wrong?

Re:oh oh (3, Funny)

sqldr (838964) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520273)

1) cheap Wii....
2) Hey this sort of thing works for bottled water companies...

I sincerely hope that wasn't deliberate..

What was their first hint? (5, Interesting)

realinvalidname (529939) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519413)

Maybe the fact that a PS3 with one game costs as much as a 360 and a Wii combined?

Re:What was their first hint? (1)

everphilski (877346) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519725)

less games than a xbox360. Cost more than 360 and Wii combined. lame

oh, wait ...

So... (3, Insightful)

brkello (642429) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519435)

It is about every 2 days when we get someone from Sony talking about price cuts then someone else at Sony saying that there won't be price cuts. Now come all the posts on how it is stupid for a company to announce a price drop until they are ready to actually drop the price. blah blah blah...news worthy? blah blah blah. It's Friday morning...I need something better than this to get me through the rest of the day.

Re:So... (2, Insightful)

EggyToast (858951) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519665)

Well the caveat that they shouldn't announce until they're ready to drop the prices implies that people would actually buy the console at the current price :)

Captain' Obvious (3, Funny)

alph0ns3 (547254) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519445)

'Nintendo Wii has been a successful enterprise, and a very good business model, compared with ours . . . because it's cheaper'

Wow, this guy needs to win the "Captain Obvious" award of the year!

Re:Captain' Obvious (4, Insightful)

Daniel_Staal (609844) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519567)

Actually, it's not obvious. The XBox 360 for instance is also cheaper, and not getting as much buzz at the moment. (Perhaps just because it isn't 'new' at the moment, but also because it isn't as 'different' as the Wii is.)

Yes, the Wii is cheaper, and yes it is sucessful, but is it sucessful just because it is cheaper? I sincerly doubt it. I think Sony and Nintendo intentionally aimed for different target audiences, and Sony found out that the audience they targeted at didn't exist in the numbers they thought existed. Now they will have to scramble to market a product to an audience it is not designed for. Meanwhile, Nintendo judged their market quite well.

Re:Captain' Obvious (1)

Applekid (993327) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519809)

Yes, the Wii is cheaper, and yes it is sucessful, but is it sucessful just because it is cheaper?

Unfortunately, the ellipses in the TFS are also in TFA. I think they might hide a little more than that.

Then again, considering the audience of the article, cost cost cost price price price seem to be the major motivations.

Re:Captain' Obvious (1)

Daniel_Staal (609844) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519991)

Yes, the Wii is cheaper, and yes it is sucessful, but is it sucessful just because it is cheaper?

Unfortunately, the ellipses in the TFS are also in TFA. I think they might hide a little more than that.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. I suspect the speaker knew what he was talking about, and that 'cost' is just the variable Sony is most able to change at this point. (And that he tailored his speach for his audience...)


Re:Captain' Obvious (2, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520471)

While the target audiences are different, the target audiences overlapped. Nintendo chose to build a console that almost everyone would like in some way. Sony chose to build a console that only a small portion of people would like. Sony limited their market by making it cost so much, that even a lot of people who would probably want one, aren't buying one. Same thing happened to NeoGeo. Everybody that I knew who saw the thing said they wanted one, but I don't know anybody who actually bought one. I would like to own a PS3, but it is way out of my price range. So by having a smaller number of people who actually want the product, and by making it really expensive, they have really cut down on sales. Decreasing the price will bring up sales, but it won't capture as many sales as the Wii, because their target market is "everybody".

Re:Captain' Obvious (5, Interesting)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521909)

AH NEO GEO now you're talking.

Actually, Neo Geo was originally designed as a rental machine, the idea was you'd go to EB and rent one for your birthday party, so you could play real arcade games at home. Hence, the high prices. They put the cartridges on a different physical format so arcade operators couldnt use them, otherwise the hardware and games are identical.

Anyways, once they started showing up, people wanted to buy them - so EB started selling them. The prices never dropped, once again, they were being sold to EB for the purposes of rental. Eventually SNK realized what was going on, and tried to market to the rest of the home crowd with the Neo Geo CD. The load times killed the "true arcade" feel, and the appeal really was to arcade gamers, since there were only weak attempts at making home console titles for it.

So, you can't compare PS3 - if you look at it in perspective, the Neo Geo AES was a completely unexpected success.

The story of SNKs decline and demise is long and sordid, but sadly had little to do with tech or their products. You can read about the Barones on the googleweb.

Re:Captain' Obvious (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522363)

I didn't know the Neo Geo was supposed to be a rental unit. Anyway, the only place I ever say it was at my local rental shop. My local video game rental shop had set up their own arcade. They had a bunch of SNES/Genesis/Neo Geo machines set up, and you payed by the hour to play the games. I think you could buy time in 15 minute or half hour slots. I'm sure they made a killing this way. First, you could try out the consoles and games before you bought them, and it got people into the store to rent games. There would also be a lot of people just standing around and watching, just like in the real arcade, but most of them ended up renting games, so it was good for business. Plus pay by the hour was a much better model for arcade games, since it didn't matter if you sucked, you didn't have to spend extra money. Eventually they closed down. However, I wish I could still find places like this.

Re:Captain' Obvious (1)

rising_hope (900951) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520823)

I disagree completely that Nintendo did a better job at judging their market. Nintendo intended to be the niche player of the video game market, looking for a fun product that will sell to people looking for an original experience -- just enough to keep them in the game. They were completely unprepared for the reaction of the public -- the completely positive reaction of the market. As it turns out, the market was begging for something new and original, and the Wii turned out to be a huge hit no one saw coming. Long before the Wii came out, billions of fanboys were all "Sony this" and "360 that," but when they hit the shelves and actually looked at the market, everyone lined up to score a Wii. In a sense, Sony should have judged better from prior experience, looking at the failed 3DO that the real niche market is the high end. Personally, I think the 360 is fairly priced and more exactly where this generation of consoles should be in terms of power -- but the originality of Nintendo prooved that sometimes you have to hit a moving, invisible target in order to win the game.

Re:Captain' Obvious (1)

Kortalh (1102177) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521705)

Of course, the question now is whether the rest of the industry will take the hint that people prefer innovative and experimental gameplay over Highseller 8: The Rehashing. So far, they seem to be completely oblivious. Big companies like EA and Atari -- the ones that can afford to be innovative -- are still unwilling to try anything really different (Will Wright excepted), though time and time again, consumers have proven to prefer the unique titles and gameplay. The Wii seems to be falling into the same trap, too. They innovated with a unique and interesting gameplay mechanism -- the Wiimote -- but they seem to be only pumping out mini-game collections, which apparently sell fairly well, rather than taking the Wii to its limit and showing us just how revolutionary it really can be. As a Wii owner, I really want to love it. But now that I've tired of Wii Sports, and have no interest in the other mini-game titles (Mario Party 8, WarioWare, Big Brain Academy, ect),it's become nothing more than elaborate web browser.

Re:Captain' Obvious (1)

fimbulvetr (598306) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522957)

I disagree completely that Nintendo did a better job at judging their market.

I see. Was it that Nintendo is making money hand over fist or the fact that Sony is desperately trying to sell these units that led you to the conclusion that Nintendo didn't do a better job at judging their market?

Games (5, Insightful)

strider2k (945409) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519491)

I don't really care about the price. I'd be glad to pay the $600 US dollars for the premium. The sad part is, what games will I get? The answer is none. I don't have a big HD tv. So unless they release at least 1 big gun soon (MGS4 or FF13) then there's no incentive for me to buy. I guess I'll play my ds/gba (lots of good games) or board games (Settlers or Puerto Rico)!!!

When they do bring the AAA top tier games, then it'll be World War III in console terms.

Re:Games (2, Interesting)

EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519589)

So unless they release at least 1 big gun soon (MGS4 or FF13) then there's no incentive for me to buy.
I think the major point is that they need to release AAA exclusives. If they lose exclusivity on either (or both) MGS/FF, then there is little reason, if any, for people to buy a PS3 over a 360. Given Sony's woes as of late, how long will the company allow their playstation division to hemorrhage money? It's not like they've got a blank check like the MS gaming division.

Re:Games (3, Informative)

Lightwarrior (73124) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520105)

It's worse than the PS3 needing just AAA exclusives - there's a general dearth of quality games available. Check out Game Rankings / Metacritic / GameStats / the rating grouper of your choice; the only game above 90% is Oblivion. There are four exclusives in the Top 20: Resistance, Motorstorm, Virtual Fighter 5, and flOw.

And once you get out of the Top 20, the ratings has already dropped below 80%. That's a serious, serious issue.

Re:Games (3, Insightful)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522617)

Man, if you think that's bad, look at the Wii's rankings on GameRankings.

Re:Games (3, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519971)

So unless they release at least 1 big gun soon (MGS4 or FF13) then there's no incentive for me to buy.

the sad thing is that they said that the console would heat up for christmas, but the great games wouldn't come out until after that. So Sony has what, one maybe two A-list titles until after christmas?

That's a long time.

When they do bring the AAA top tier games, then it'll be World War III in console terms.

I don't know, will it be? Will they still be in the running by then? I'm kind of thinking that there's some good games on the Xbox 360 right now, that pretty much everyone in the market has a PS2 so back-compatibility is a total non-issue, and that people will be buying Wiis (they are becoming more available even now) and Xbox 360s while they're waiting for Sony to get their shit together and get out some games.

But, maybe that's just wishful thinking.

Re:Games (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521327)

The release schedule is cranking up significantly. Major games like The Darkness, Rainbow 6: Vegas, Ninja Gaiden Sigma are imminent, with Stranglehold, Lair, Warhawk, Singstar, Heavenly Sword, Assassins Creed appearing in the next 2 or 3 months. In total there are something like 70 or so titles appearing before the end of year many of which are exclusives.

I think if Sony knocked off $100 or $125 that combined with the busier release schedule they'd probably quadruple their sales.

Re:Games (3, Interesting)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521697)

The PS3 needs exclusive games that are "good" or better. Darkness isn't exclusive, nor is Assassins Creed.

I don't know why people keep mentioning Singstar. Do you honestly think a karaoke/DDR game is going to convince anyone to buy a PS3? Even fans of those games aren't going to spend $600 (or even $500) just to get a single game.

Warhawk is very confusing, as it was first a Blu-ray game, then was a online only deathmatch type game that you would download, for free even. Now it's supposedly both a BR AND download game?

Furthermore, even if Sony did manage to lower the price this year (unlikely) and quadruple its sales, according to the latest data, that would put the PS3's sales at about 350k in the US. This is lot better, and may even beat monthly 360 sales for once. Unfortunately, the 360 still has its 12 months head start, plus months of outselling the PS3. Also, any move that Sony makes will simply be matched by Microsoft who unlike Sony, is actually making a small profit off their hardware at the current time. On top of all this, the Wii is expected to continue its strong sales into 2008, meaning it will still be ahead of the PS3, and ever gaining on the 360.

Finally, consider this, the 360 has Halo3 coming this fall, and that alone is expected to be a major incentive to buyers. The PS3 has nothing nearly as compelling on its schedule at this time. Yes, I know Lair! Heavenly Sword! But remember - those games aren't out yet. Many folks feel they got burned by the PS3's launch lineup which only managed to turn out 1 OK/good exclusive game. Even Genji, which was expected to be a major inticement for gamers, turned out to be fairly mediocre and worse still, buggy. I sincerely hope that Lair, Heavenly Sword and others live up to their hype, but past experience tells me that this is rarely the case. I'm sure they'll be good games, but not the WOW-GREAT! titles that the PS3 needs right now.

When will they learn... (1)

svendsen (1029716) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519531)

Yes the price is high but I am not sure it's the price stopping a lot of people. When someone is going to buy a system now they aren't thinking I will buy this machine now and hope the game I want comes out, they are thinking I am buying this because they are games out now I want to get.

Sony needs games and fast. Good games that are exclusive. That will solve their biggest problem. If the ps3 dropped to 300 bucks would anyone outside the I want blue-ray/linux running on it/etc. crowd buy one? I'm not sure they would until they are games they want.

But what do I know, I thought the Mini Disc was going to rule the world.

Re:When will they learn... (1)

joerdie (816174) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519625)

Although I dont own a PS3, (mostly because I havent spent the time to budget for one) I thought the PS3 was going to do well even with the price point... until I saw the current crop of games. As a side point, I too thought mini-disc was going to rise up and kill the CD. My wife still wont let that go.

Re:When will they learn... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19520035)

I thought the Mini Disc was going to rule the world.
It could have and should have. The creator of the walkman, back when their brand reputation was rather better, in a huge market with a fundamentally good product and no real competitors ... portable mp3 devices weren't practical / affordable till years later. Leave it to Sony to manage to fuck this up with excessive costs, stupid unnecessary DRM restrictions and some of the worst audio transfer software ever devised (SonicStage.)

Re:When will they learn... (4, Interesting)

Floritard (1058660) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520117)

I'll tell you right now, the price is stopping me. And that is all that is stopping me. I had a Wii for a few months. I bought it on an impulse (right place right time), partly because I was intrigued by the new control scheme, but mostly because it's waaay cheaper than the other "next-gen" systems. I have since given it away to a friend of mine because I promised to buy her one at some point, but also because there are no games out for it that I really want (yet). While I did get bored of it already, the lack of games wasn't something that stopped me from buying it in the first place. And the Wii is so cheap that I'll easily pick one up again when they become more available. Not so with that wallet monster PS3. I can build most of a new PC off newegg for the price of that little bastard. Games or no games, it gives me pause dropping $600+ on a fucking console, they're supposed to be the cheap alternative to PC gaming. As it stands now I really don't know what to do, there are games coming out that I am looking forward to but luckily they aren't here yet. I'm on the fence here, I'll definitely get another Wii, but I will also want either a 360 or a PS3 for those truly next-gen games. Despite Sony's incompetance of late, I really dislike Microsoft's history of foul play and would prefer to stop buying into their products, especially after this power-grab Vista/DX10 business. I'm not especially excited about giving Microsoft so much control over the gaming world. But that PS3 is so damn expensive that I'm worried if I buy it I'll be stuck with a failed system. An expensive failed system. This whole gen is off to a bad start if you ask me. Too much risk. I'm waiting, and the industry isn't getting my gaming dollar.

Re:When will they learn... (1)

svendsen (1029716) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520501)

I can respect that. Question though: if the price was still $600 BUT they where say 10 triple AAA games you really wanted would that effect your decision at all?

As for the not wanting to support MS because you don't like them obviously that's a valid point for you. For me I bought one when there was at least a few games I really wanted (oblivion was my first) and that was back in Aug. 06.

Re:When will they learn... (1)

Eponymous Crowbar (974055) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520971)

Sony, M$ and Nintendo have all done "evil" things in the games/entertainment biz. Sure, you can pick out certain bad deeds and say they are the worst. For me, I am still boycotting Sony because if their rootkit and entertainment mafia connections, combined with a personal history of being burned by poor quality Sony home electronics that underperform early and die too soon. But I digress -- for most people, it is probably best to buy the consoles that work the best for your life today and not worry too much about the supposedly AAA titles that may be around the corner. That's why my wife and kids play the Wii and I log about 20-30 hours per week on my 360.

Re:When will they learn... (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521353)

Just curious. What things has Nintendo done that you consider "evil"?

Re:When will they learn... (1)

Eponymous Crowbar (974055) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521681)

I vaguely recall that Nintendo screwed over some 3rd party developers, and I am not happy with some of the ways they tightly and smugly manage their image (although they are well within their rights there). I guess it is the latter that gets to me. Let's face it, they don't compare to MS or Sony on evil deeds, but I think there's enough there to fuel a bit of mistrust. Hey, I still have a Wii and a Cube, so it's not like I hate them!

Re:When will they learn... (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521859)

Nothing recently, but Nintendo was absolutely notorious back in the NES/SNES days for censorship (e.g. Mortal Kombat), price-fixing, etc.

Re:When will they learn... (2, Funny)

xero314 (722674) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521531)

That's why my wife and kids play the Wii and I log about 20-30 hours per week on my 360.
Sorry I just thought that needed Highlighting. Ever think your wife and kids play the Wii because you log 20-30 hours per week on your 360? It's either that or you really need to get a job.

Re:When will they learn... (1)

Eponymous Crowbar (974055) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521917)

Allow me to elaborate -- the wife plays Zelda and the kids play party games while we all sit around together. You could say that we all play the Wii, but really the parents just encourage the kids and the kids do all the playing. I actually do have a job, but I work a rotating shift that leaves me wide awake at home while everyone else is either at school/work or dead asleep, so I play shooters online. I agree that if I simply came home from work and started playing games by myself then your point might have been completely valid. I'm just not on the same schedule as everyone else more than 5 days out of the month. I mentioned the 20-30 hours simply to point out that I could have been playing the Wii at that time but I chose the 360 instead. I also could have used that time to learn a foreign language, study romantic literature or enhance my professional skills.... but that doesn't happen as often.

Re:When will they learn... (1)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521777)

Even if there were 10 AAA games that's a total price of $1200. Ok, fine, so who buys 10 new games at once anyways? So you buy a PS3 and 3 games. That's still about $800.

No, the console must come down in price.

It's still a good buy as just a blue ray player (1, Insightful)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519587)

as they cost more then ps3 and they are missing a few blue ray features and it plays games as well as running linux.

Re:It's still a good buy as just a blue ray player (1)

SparkyFlooner (1090661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519943)

600 bucks for a Blu Ray player is still way too high.

Especially since movies cost 30 bucks.

And you can only watch a subset of movies that are released today because some are only available in HD-DVD and some are only available in Blu Ray.

Re:It's still a good buy as just a blue ray player (0, Flamebait)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520079)

as they cost more then ps3

No, no they don't [bbc.co.uk] .

and they are missing a few blue ray features

What do you know about it? You can't even spell blu-ray.

Regardless, what is the sony BDP player missing but ethernet? Will you not be able to do PIP? Oh noes!!!11!!11ones!

and it plays games as well as running linux.

What games? There's like two worth buying.

And as for Linux, it's running in a Hypervisor intended to keep you from fully utilizing the hardware. The point of running Linux is that it is open, not just that it's Unix. For less money I can get a far more useful system. The system has only 256MB of system memory (that's all you can use for Linux) so it's horribly anemic as a computer. Xbox's shared memory makes it much more desirable as a Linux box and Free/free Linux is making headway there.

Re:It's still a good buy as just a blue ray player (1)

Vexor (947598) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520421)

I still wouldn't bet on blu-ray alone. That format war isn't over yet. HD is still in the fight. As for me I'm perfectly content with a DVD for $20 or less.

While I agree there isn't a "overwhelming" selection of games for any next-gen console I think the 360 definitly has the edge in until some heavy hitters from Nintendo and Sony show up. Even still though the PS3 lost GTAIV (and FFXIII as I've heard it?) as exclusive which is going to cost them dearly.

Re:It's still a good buy as just a blue ray player (2, Interesting)

seebs (15766) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520531)

You're sort of begging the question, there. You're assuming that a blu-ray player is worth buying at "full price", and looking at this as a discount.

If I open a store called "McDucks" that sells bad hamburgers for $500, and then McDonalds starts selling them for $90, does the fact that they're more than 80% cheaper make them a good deal? No.

Blu-ray isn't worth the money, so getting it for only way too much instead of WTF are you thinking too much is not a big deal.

Re:It's still a good buy as just a blue ray player (1)

Xjuan (827227) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521437)

no need to lower the price, just bundle it with MGS4 or a FF or both this Christmas and you are done! Speaking seriously, its nice to be able to install other OS like linux but other than to show it to your friends you can whats whats the deal? I want more RAM! Why dont they release a deluxe version with more RAM, 1GB or 2GB will do, they could charge way more than the extra RAM cost and it would be very usable as a PC. Games will still use 256, and the rest could be used as cache! :P Anyway this do not make any sense if they do not allow 3d acceleration, hey man! at least give us half the shaders!

Re:It's still a good buy as just a blue ray player (1)

DeeDob (966086) | more than 7 years ago | (#19523281)

But for HD movies, HD-DVD players are way cheaper than a PS3 (which is in turn cheaper than a BluRay player, like you said).

Why buy a PS3 for BluRay if i can have HD-DVD for less?

It's not as if any of those two formats has already become a, and i use the term loosely, "winner".

The, again i use the next term loosely, "smart" people buy their HD movies in digital, downloadable format through various online marketplaces. That way, no matter if a format fails or is discontinued, they will still be able to watch their movies 100 years from now.

For those like me that are going on the 3rd option, the downloadable option, the PS3 as a BluRay player fails completely.
Currently, the PS3 also fails as a gaming machine. Aside from what? 2 or 3 "noteworthy" games, all can be found on other platforms, most of the time with critics saying it's slightly better on the "other" platforms...

So if it fails as an "HD" movies player AND it "currently" fails as a gaming platform AND is the most expansive console out there, is it a wonder why it's not going as strong as the Wii (or the 360)?

1) Bring games quick, before 2008 (tons of games).
2) Bring an HD movies online marketplace (movies that can be used on other things than just the PS3 as there's no point in having a movie in digital format you can only play in one place).
3) Lower the cost.

They Have no footing (1)

ShrapnelFace (1001368) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519629)

Their problem is that they dont know what to do- this is such a hot and competitive market right now, how do you justify a proce drop without contemplating that your competitor will do the same? I think they feel the market response with these comments and measure both responses (consumer and competitor) to determine what the timing is right now.

This just in... (2, Insightful)

pragma_x (644215) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519633)

""'Nintendo Wii has been a successful enterprise, and a very good business model, compared with ours . . . because it's cheaper,' "

In a recent shake-up within the Japan-based electronics juggernaut Sony, Captain Obvious was promoted to the position of CEO.

Re:This just in... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19522931)

What's the E in CEO?

In other news, PS3 to lose more money than before (1)

Lord of Hyphens (975895) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519635)

So they're going to sell it at more of a loss than originally? Especially with games for the thing being expensive to make?

Re:In other news, PS3 to lose more money than befo (2, Informative)

tb()ne (625102) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519795)

So they're going to sell it at more of a loss than originally? Especially with games for the thing being expensive to make?

Not necessarily. Production costs are apparently coming down [dailytech.com] so they will only take more of a loss if the price cut is greater than the reduction in production costs.

"..and then you will begin to see break-out games" (3, Funny)

tonywestonuk (261622) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519663)

erm, I could buy a C64 from ebay, and play "break-out" games...

Re:"..and then you will begin to see break-out gam (2, Funny)

goodenoughnickname (874664) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520553)

Yeah, but sliding the SIXAXIS back and forth is going to make the PS3 version kick ass.

Re:"..and then you will begin to see break-out gam (1)

famikon (994709) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521315)

I believe the Sixaxis has tilt sensors only, not accellerometers. (I know you were joking but at least I didn't answer your sarcasm with some type of math equation explaining the whole thing)

Re:"..and then you will begin to see break-out gam (1)

DarkJC (810888) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521717)

And you would be wrong. It can detect motion along the "six" axes, including x, y, and z. It's pretty much the same tech as the Wii controller in a differently shaped package.

Re:"..and then you will begin to see break-out gam (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522459)

Well, ignoring the idiocy of 6 axises (there's a mathermatical maximum of N axises in N dimensional space), the hardware is *NOT* anywhere near the same. They have similar enough motion sensing hardware, but the PS3 has no position sensing software. Nintendo does this via the sensor bar and 2 LEDs embedded in the controller. With the leds on the controller and the sensors on the bars, it can triangulate a precise position and angle in space. The PS3 can't do that. If you were to use a PS3 in a motion detecting game, you'd notice that fine positioning would be a little off, and the more you movedthe further off it would get.

Very good business model.... (2, Funny)

MrAngryForNoReason (711935) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519841)

Nintendo Wii has been a successful enterprise, and a very good business model, compared with ours...

Oh yes the revolutionary business model of selling a product for a reasonable price while still making a profit. Opposed to Sony's excellent method of selling at a staggeringly high price and *still* making a loss on each unit sold. Genius.

Re:Very good business model.... (0, Troll)

SuperDre (982372) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520277)

Well, it isn't difficult to sell an old useless console with profit, because that's what the wii is, old technology, the control is not even that great or special, for god sake, you can't even play a dvd on the bugger even though it has a dvdplayer inside... The PS3 isn't a staggering high price (maybe you don't have enough money to buy it, but that doesn't mean the price is too high), with the PS3 you get all the stuff the wii can do (like emulating old games), but you also get a HD multimediacentre, and 'NextGen' games.. But then again, you propably can't look any further than looking at it as a gameconsole, which it ofcourse also is, but it's much more... A HD capable xbox360 with the same ammount of Harddrivespace costs just as much as the PS3 (even the PS3 is a but cheaper, since it does also have Wifi built in), so in the end the PS3 isn't that pricey at all...

Re:Very good business model.... (1)

Glytch (4881) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520843)

A HD capable xbox360 with the same ammount of Harddrivespace costs just as much as the PS3 (even the PS3 is a but cheaper, since it does also have Wifi built in), so in the end the PS3 isn't that pricey at all...

If ones wants to get into the whole next-gen movie disc format before there's a clear winner and risk spending $600 plus disc costs on the 21st century's very own Beta format, and if one has a high-def capable TV.

I will not sink one single penny into any high-def disc format until movie studios drop support entirely for one of the formats, and considering Sony's luck in the past on such things, I'm not betting on Blu-Ray. I'm also not getting a high-def TV until there's a disc format winner. By the time the dust settles, prices will be considerably lower.

Re:Very good business model.... (1)

desenz (687520) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521021)

Was that an intentional troll, or do you just enjoy attacking people for their opinions?

Re:Very good business model.... (2, Interesting)

RamblinLonghorn (1074873) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521093)

"Well, it isn't difficult to sell an old useless console with profit, because that's what the wii is, old technology, the control is not even that great or special, for god sake, you can't even play a dvd on the bugger even though it has a dvdplayer inside..."

It's the same reason a Honda Accord outsells a Porsche 911. It's good, proven technology, that, while not the most powerful or cutting edge, fits the budget of the largest segment of the car buying populace. The PS3 is awesome technology, I think very few people will argue that point. The Wii is using older technologies in new ways, and it's got alot of people intrigued. And as far as a DVD goes, it will more than likely be added in a future software update, and who doesn't have 2 or 3 different ways to play a DVD.

Re:Very good business model.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19521835)

And as far as a DVD goes, it will more than likely be added in a future software update, and who doesn't have 2 or 3 different ways to play a DVD.

This is exactly why I don't care that the Wii doesn't play DVDs. I've got my laptop, my boyfriend's desktop, his PS2, his laptop ...

In all seriousness, it's like everything is a DVD player now. I don't need another one, especially if it would add anything to the cost. I wouldn't pay even $5 extra for DVD playing functionality on my Wii.

Really, the only thing I don't like about it is that it's only 480p when I have a really nice projector that turns my wall into a 10' diagonal 720p TV. Then again, pretty much everything else is 480i or 480p, too, so it's not a huge deal.

Re:Very good business model.... (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520629)

Opposed to Sony's excellent method of selling at a staggeringly high price and *still* making a loss on each unit sold. Genius.

Worked well for the PS2, didn't it?

Re:Very good business model.... (1)

zoomzit (860737) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520775)

I think Sony's big problem is that even if they cut prices by $100 on their consoles (which translates into an additional $100 lost on every console) it probably still won't move enough units to substantially increase sales of games or increase uptake on Blu-ray (which is what they are really after).

The PS3 just isn't an compelling enough product for consumers even if Sony is taking a bath on each product sold. I think Sony's solution should be to segment their market. Sony should keep trying to sell the PS3 as as game console/Blu-ray player on one hand, but also take the innards of the PS3, put it in a different box, load up a copy of linux and sell it with a keyboard and mouse at whatever it cost them to build the thing and a create a unique low budget computer. This might be totally against the Sony culture and they might not sell a ton, but at the very least, they could keep the assembly line moving and not lose quite so much money as they are now.

Re:Very good business model.... (1)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521981)

The PS3 won't make it as a home computer. I doubt that even most Linux hobbyists would bother with a Linux station made out of stripped down PS3 guts.

The PS3 currently costs Sony about $800 to make. Getting rid of Blu-ray, the WiFi adapter, and PS2 hardware might bring the price down to about $500. Note that this is still without monitor, keyboard, mouse, and speakers. Furthermore, customers will have the "joy" of running on a non-x86 processor, meaning they'll have to recompile any piece of software they wish to use. Yeah, that's a great idea for Grandma.

Meanwhile, for $500, you can get a brand name computer from WalMart - with monitor - that has more memory, a larger HDD, AND a LCD panel. It may not be top of the line, it may not be able to play Doom3, but hey, neither would that underpowered Cell-based desktop.

Re:Very good business model.... (1)

zoomzit (860737) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522161)

Actually, the reason I think it will sell as a PC is precisely because it isn't a x86. Lots of linux people geek out at the Cell processor, mostly because it is different. If Sony supoorted a usb tv tuner and Myth, there is a nice HTPC to be had at a cheap price. Plus, the PS3 can play some nice games, why wouldn't a box with PS3 guts not play games well? It's powerful hardware that has yet to be optimized. Open up that platform to open-source and find out what the hardware can really do.

Re:Very good business model.... (1)

tb()ne (625102) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520827)

Oh yes the revolutionary business model of selling a product for a reasonable price while still making a profit. Opposed to Sony's excellent method of selling at a staggeringly high price and *still* making a loss on each unit sold. Genius.

The business model is not without precedent.

sed s/Sony/Microsoft/ $PARENT_POST

because it's cheaper? (1)

uepuejq (1095319) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519907)

i've owned the wii for a while, and i have to say that it is the best console i've had since the super nintendo. i'm 23 years old and i've got friends and family coming over and having a good time, and we still play wii sports. i haven't played the playstation 3, and i'm not going to pretend to have an opinion on the quality of it, but to say the wii is a good model because of its price is a little silly. it has a good price because it's a good model!

Blu-ray is the problem. (4, Insightful)

Fross (83754) | more than 7 years ago | (#19519953)

A common argument for the high price of the PS3 is that "hey, it includes a blu-ray player!" Which is true, and changes something.

The PS3 isn't the most expensive console, rather, it is the cheapest available Blu-ray player.

So not only does Sony have part of the market for the next-gen console market with the PS3, but it also has the vast majority of the HD-video market as well.

The sales figures are testament more to the fact that nobody wants HD video at the moment, and forcing people to take it in a bundle is crucifying them. The PS3 may be better than the 360 (the games look about the same to me), but it costs $300 more (at least here in the UK) - that's a lot to a gamer. You can make a car with a gold steering wheel for an extra $50,000, but if nobody *wants* a gold steering wheel, then your car isn't going to sell at all, as good as it is, unless you can sell if without the steering wheel.

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (4, Interesting)

SparkyFlooner (1090661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520243)

I have the 360 add-on HD-DVD player, and I find myself ignoring HD-DVD titles and just renting regular DVDs. (and yes, I have an hdtv) Regular DVDs still look good, you know? Even 200 bucks on an HD player seems like too much for what you get. I would've been content watching regular DVDs until the price of an HD player came down to 100 or less.

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (1)

zarkill (1100367) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521123)

I agree... I also have an HDTV, and regular DVDs look great on it.
I mean, I like the way HD looks, but it's just not a big deal to me so I can't picture myself making a major purchase based on it. (In fact, even for my TV I'd say the screen size and small footprint were the biggest attractions, as opposed to the HD picture quality.)

I think I'll be satisfied with regular DVD quality until my DVD player breaks and I can't get a new one. There's just no incentive for me otherwise, unlike making the astronomical leap from VHS to DVD.

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (1)

DarkJC (810888) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521769)

I don't get it. If the movie is available on both HD-DVD as well as DVD, then why would you pick up the DVD for rental because it "still looks good"? They may still look good, but if you've spent $200 on the player and have an HDTV to take advantage of, why not get something that looks better? Obviously some movies are still only available on DVD, but I assume you're not talking about that.

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (1)

SparkyFlooner (1090661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522441)

You can't rent HD-DVD movies at the video stores yet. And I don't want to buy them. The only way to get them is to use Netflix or Blockbuster online or something...but when I want a movie, I want it NOW. So either I get a regular DVD and watch it tonight, or I wait 2 or 3 days for the HD-DVD version to come in.

"still looks pretty good" outweighs 2-3 days right now. If I could rent HD-DVDs in the store, I'd always pick an HD-DVD over a regular DVD.

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522087)

Do you really have an HDTV, or do you just have a 480p TV? DVDs do generally look nice, but even on an XGA screen, HD-DVD is noticeably nicer, much nicer on higher resolution screens. On something that's 1080p, there is simply no contest, it's not worth passing over the HD discs.

I'm in the market for an HD player because of how nice the 1080p trailers look when I play them through my HTPC, basically looks like a film projection, but without the drawbacks of film projection.

I personally would expect to see $100 HD players in the fall of 2008.

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (1)

SparkyFlooner (1090661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522649)

I have a 1080p SXRD. And yeah, HD-DVD movies do look amazing. But like I said in another post, the HD movies aren't available yet in rental stores, and they're too expensive to buy (and I wouldn't choose a side yet, anyway). It's simply more convenient to get a regular DVD at the store vs waiting for the HD version to arrive in the mail.

So $200 seems expensive because I just don't use it all that much right now. I should've waited until it became more convenient to actually watch HD movies. At that time the players would've come down a lot in price.

Right now, I'm looking at what it will take to just stream movies over the net, and avoid the whole Blu Ray, HD-DVD war entirely.

So ultimately, if I think I paid too much for my HD-DVD player, 600 bucks for a Blu Ray player seems like insanity to me.

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (1)

afidel (530433) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520889)

Well, at $300 more than the 360 it's $100 more than the 360+HD-DVD combo, so they are screwed even if you are looking for a next generation movie player. I personally plan to get the 360 HDDVD drive for my PC, I already have all the gaming I want, plus excellent media center capabilities on the PC, why not add next generation movie capabilities for a third the cost of a PS3 =)

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (2, Interesting)

DarkJC (810888) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521883)

You're applying American prices to UK prices.

In the UK, it costs £381.96 on Amazon for a 360 Premium + HD-DVD player...381.96 GBP = 755.107 USD
It costs £399.99 for a PS3...399.99 GBP = 790.754 USD

Hardly $100. The 360 is slightly discounted on Amazon at the moment as well, otherwise they'd turn out to be the same. And that's with a 360 that lacks an HDMI port..if you wanted one it'd end up costing you more than the PS3.

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (1)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522603)

With cheaper blu-ray players coming out (from Sony, no less) the "PS3 is a cheap blu-ray player!" days are over.

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (2, Insightful)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522773)

There's a lot more to using blu-ray than just promoting a new format (though I'm sure that's part of it). With gaming this gen, games are going to be LARGE. We already saw PS2 games spanning multiple DVDs, so it makes sense to move to a bigger storage medium as standard. It's already been stated that Resistance would have had to be on two dual-layer DVDs, and Rockstar said they're having issues with storage space on the 360 version. Not including a better drive in the 360, to me, shows a pretty big lack of foresight (the Wii is different since it's standard-def).

Sony wants the PS3 to be something amazing - the total experience. It definitely has the potential to be that, whereas the Wii (especially) and the 360 are likely to show growing pains over the next couple years.

Now we just need the games... :/

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (2, Insightful)

SparkyFlooner (1090661) | more than 7 years ago | (#19523893)

Agreed. More space can only be a good thing. The problem is if PS3 doesn't really land many exclusives, all the 'cool' games will be designed for multiple consoles using the least common denominator, which is DVD. So sure there's more space on a Blu Ray disk, and the games could look and sound better on a PS3, but the space wouldn't really be used for gameplay.

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (1)

toolie (22684) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522845)

The PS3 isn't the most expensive console, rather, it is the cheapest available Blu-ray player.

So not only does Sony have part of the market for the next-gen console market with the PS3, but it also has the vast majority of the HD-video market as well.

The sales figures are testament more to the fact that nobody wants HD video at the moment, and forcing people to take it in a bundle is crucifying them.


One of the biggest problems I see with using the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player is its form factor. It won't fit in a normal component cabinet, or a rack unless it is on the top shelf. A player is designed and shaped the way it is for a specific reason. Applying a different footprint for the same thing isn't going to make adopting it any easier, unless it is significantly smaller. I would rather spend the $800 for a regular player that is going to fit in my current setup than $600 that I need to adapt my setup to accept.

That said, if it had some games that I liked or were interested in, I wouldn't mind adapting my entertainment center at all.

Re:Blu-ray is the problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19522959)

But you have to admit, it's very efficient of Sony to release a system that's not only a game console with no games for it but also a media player with no movies for it.

Hope... (1, Interesting)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520113)

I sincerely hope Sony doesn't believe Nintendo is beating them simply because of price.

I sincerely believe they aren't that silly, but these days you never can tell.

Re:Hope... (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521119)

One thing at a time, man. They can only have so many revelations at a time.

Obviously the price is significant, only complete morons thought it wasn't, by which I mean Sony execs. They're slowly figuring out that a $600 console is inherently unappealing and will never be mass-market.

Once they've wrapped their head around that concept, then they can start figuring out the other problems with their strategy.

No, don't! (1)

mattgreen (701203) | more than 7 years ago | (#19520197)

I prefer to think of my video gaming experience as a fine dining experience, as Sony so helpfully suggested [gamesindustry.biz] . I cannot believe they would betray my trust by discounting their truly unique console to McDonald's-level prices. They've already said it was too cheap, and now they would cheapen it further? Traitorous hounds!

Lower game prices (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19521007)

Screw lowering the console price, that's going to happen anyway. Lower the damn game prices! $69 for the garbage that was Spiderman 3? Ridiculous...

You learn something new every day (2, Funny)

Chelloveck (14643) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521081)

'Nintendo Wii has been a successful enterprise, and a very good business model, compared with ours . . . because it's cheaper,'

And here I thought the reason for the Wii's success relative to the PS3 is because the Wii has games that don't suck. What a fool I was.

sigh... (1)

djupedal (584558) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521549)

The PS3 is a wonderful device. It has amazing abilities and is a shining example of what one company can do when all the stops are pulled and the horizon is just the beginning.

Sound familiar?

Until Sony admits they are selling the console equivalent of the Bugatti Veyron, nothing much is going to change in the marketplace. Consider the commonalities. Exceptional performance; pushing the envelope; losing considerable amounts of money when each one is sold? Rabid fans line up to buy one. Not much you can do but show it off to your friends. All that power seems a bit out of reach for practical purposes. Flagship for the company.

Ok, Sony - the PS3 is a milestone - sure to go down in history. Nothing can compare. Now, how about cranking out millions of units that can be enjoyed by the masses. Something more timely, practical and compatible. You can do it - I have faith. You just need to forget bluesky marketing and get back to making and selling what the public not only wants, but can use...today.

Re:sigh... (2)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521687)

Ok, Sony - the PS3 is a milestone - sure to go down in history. Nothing can compare.

Saturn? Dreamcast? Neo-Geo?

Re:sigh... (1)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 7 years ago | (#19522493)

Dreamcast?

Blasphemy MOTHER FUCKER! Do you speak it?!

But seriously, if the ps3 had the possibility of being the next dreamcast, I'd actually buy one!

Whet they really should do... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19521775)

"Refine" the PS3 to a bloat-free game-only console and the price will automatically adjust to $300 (or Euro).

If I wan't a PC I get one for $100 (or Euro) (If I haven't already one).

If I want to watch (DivX) Movies or listen to MP3 in my living rooms I get a stand alone DivX/MP3 player for $40 (or Euro) (If I haven't already one).

But who cares.

In related news... (1)

scolen2 (956819) | more than 7 years ago | (#19521823)

Sony has removed the BD drive, wifi, Bluetooth, and half of the cells from the powerful IBM cell processor and is now selling the newly branded "PS3 n00b" to compeat with microsofts recently announced 360 Elite.

Re:You fail it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19522463)

Dear scolen2,

I have read your recent post and have judged it a troll. However, I have looked over some of your posting history and deemed that you may have a future as a valuable contributing member of /. if you would mature just a little bit.

Please learn to spell a bit better and think before you type. I'm sure that you can not only become a better poster but a better human being as well.

Yours truly,
AC
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